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Conversation with Sahaja Yogis, in ashram Le Raincy, Paris, (France), 1984, May 7th
First audio. [Marie summarizes Shri Mataji’s speech ; starts at 1:33]
Shri Mataji: Done?
This is what it is you see, but, again as I warn you for discretion, you must know what are the artificial “hamsa” and which are normal things which are supposed to be done. It doesn’t mean that you become abandon, a free person doesn’t mean abandon, never.
[Marie gives a very long translation]
Shri Mataji: I must say 21 stages, [unsure] when you say so much [inaudible]
Sahaja Yogi: Mother there is a very logical explanation for it.
Shri Mataji: What?
Sahaja Yogi: There is a very logical explanation.
Another Sahaja Yogi: She forgot something at the beginning.
Shri Mataji: Of course. [Laughter]
Shri Mataji: Sometimes she finishes so soon,
Shri Mataji: So discretion, again. What to discard, what not to discard. The traditions are – so many traditions are very good, they are symbolic and the symbolism of that tradition must be understood. And if you understand the symbolism then you’d better do it.
For example, I’ll give you my own example: I was born in a Christian family. So, normally, you are supposed to pierce the nose, but Christians don’t do it. Though my father, my mother, both of them knew that I was so and so, they said: “We must pierce the nose”. But all the family people, you see, all the relations said: “No, because we are Christians we cannot pierce the nose.” And they did not pierce it. But it’s very symbolic and I have to wear, I have to pierce it. So maybe, I should next year, because if I don’t do it, I’ll have troubles with my nose. I know that. There’s a power there “siddhi”, for which I have to wear a nose ring or a nose decoration.
So, so many traditions which are symbolic must be understood in their own spirituality. Like English people have one tradition, they used to have, not now, that whenever they went to visit somebody, they used to take some charcoal with them. Because in those [times] people used to heat their houses with coal. And if, supposing you sit with them and there is a use of the coal, it’s better to leave some coal so they heat it there, expressing the warmth.
But now, if you find an English man will never take anything to [inaudible] that state and don’t do it. You give them any amount of presents they never return your presents. It’s so common. If you give them ten diners they might invite you to one diner. It’s a common experience of all the Englands, all over the world, it is so. Compared to Indians, they are very, very miserly, all of them, despite the fact they are much richer people. The first time the Sahaja Yogis went to India, absolutely free, didn’t pay anything, for years they didn’t pay anything. And when they came back, they never even wrote a letter of thanks to anyone. Absolutely free they lived there.
And in India, people got worried they thought that all these people had got sick you know. And they were sending telegrams: “I hope they are there all right.” I said: “They are perfectly all right what is the matter?” And then they phone called to Me and asked Me on the telephone: “What’s the matter with all the people they are- are they all right?” And I asked them: “What’s the matter? They have not
And the whole thing is that we have abandoned all the good traditions in every way. Sometimes it shocks Me because I’ve known people in my childhood who were foreigners, people of great values and sense of gratitude and everything and when I find now the people around Me, yes, they have no sense of gratitude. But now, the Sahaja Yogis are going to re-establish those traditions we have forgotten which are very important. These are normal things we have to do. Even the dogs and animals have gratitude. If we don’t have gratitude, we are worse than animals, isn’t it?
So, we have to re-establish those traditions and those great things which are so important to be good human beings, to be virtuous, righteous human beings. So the traditions which have symbolic values must be re-establish in all the community and society and there should be reports about it between different communities and societies so that people learn good traditions.
For example, we should not assert on other people but we should learn from them. And that’s very important. Like an airplane, you see, is first fixed on the ground and then it ascends. Supposing all the screws are loose and the airplane rises, [Shri Mataji laughs] what will happen to the airplane? So all these screws must
So again the discretion is between abandonment and between tradition.
Also, traditions can get ruined, spoiled by time. So, you should bring it back to its natural position. Like in India, it was a custom, in every country it was a custom that because the boys inherit the father’s property, the girls were given part of the property as- because, after all, the girl is going to another family and she has equal right on the property. It was called as dowry.
And for example a king’s daughter won’t be sent without an elephant to anybody’s else family, isn’t it? Because she must keep some elephant with them. But now the traditions have become worse because it
So, as a result of that, now people started demanding that: “You must give so much.” In India now, the rule is that the girl gets half of the property of the father. He has to give
So a good tradition has become rotten. So we have to purify, go to the symbolic principle of that and then imbibe that tradition.
Now, I’ll end up now all other things by one small “shloka” which you will understand by very simple things. They say: “Bakaha svetaha. Hamsah shvetah, bakah shvetah. kah bhedah hamsa bakayo.” The swan is white. The swan is a divine swan, is hamsa. The divine swan is white and the crane is also white. The crane, “bakah” is the crane, all white. What is the difference between the two? How can you make out the difference between the two? Because they both are white. So, what do they say: “Nira kshira viveketu.” When it is a question of discriminating between the water and the milk, then you can make out which is the swan and which is the crane. Because the swan will just drink the milk and leave the water.
The subtle part of it is that: “Kakah krishna pikah krishna, Ko bheda pika kaka yoho?” [Crow is black, Cuckoo is black, which difference? In Subhashitani, proverbs.]
See, the crow is black and the cuckoo bird is also black, what is the difference between the two? They say: “Vasanta
You have no sense of proportions.
[20:34 Cut in the audio]
See, I was in Rahuri and they had two programs. One was, they were celebrating Vivekanand in that program and afterward was my program. So they wanted Me to garland the photo of Vivekanand because they said: “Mother he was a great son of India.” I didn’t want to do it but I said: “All right I’ll garland it.” The lights fell all off all the time. [Inaudible] Nobody saw whether I garlanded the photograph or I put it on the ground. But a soon as Sahaja Yoga started- [Big laughter] So “Vasanta
So all right.
So may God bless you.
H.H. Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi