The Experience of Truth, Public Programme

South Bank University, London (England)


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Public Program, “The Experience of Truth”. South Bank Polytechnic, London (England), 22 June 1984.

I bow to all the seekers of Truth.

There are in those modern times, many seekers of Truth [that] are born. It’s a special category of people born in these modern times.

Perhaps we are not aware that, in every country, [a] lot of people are born with the seeking. They are a special category which sees beyond, tries to find something beyond what they can perceive through their sense organs. The Truth as we see, is through our sense organs. For example something we see as white, we call it ‘white’, something we feel cool, we call it ‘cool’; [similarly] something as hot. Means, whatever we perceive through our sense organs and whatever is communicated to us through our central nervous system we accept as Truth. And we should accept that only as Truth and not something that is told to us, not something that we have read in the books, not something that we can project our mind to and can think about. That doesn’t mean that I deny any one of the scriptures. That doesn’t mean that I deny anything that you have known so far. But, to begin with, let us start from scratch as they call it or on a clean slate. Let us see what is the Truth.

Now in every religion Truth has been described as I can see it. Everybody cannot see it. That’s why this problem. That’s why fanaticism. That’s why this blindness. That’s why there are these blind alleys where you end up arguing [about] things.

So there must be something that is missing within us that we have not been able to really relate Truth to our central nervous system. And what is that missing within us we should find out. In all humility we should know that there must be something within us. That we have been arguing about so many things. We have been talking about so many things. Reading so many books. Going into all kinds of funny experiences, right from alcohol to other drugs and ‘gurus’ and this and that. But still we have not felt anything on our central nervous system.

Secondly that we have no control over that Truth, so far. So what is the reason? Is it that something [is] missing in the human awareness? Is it that we are lacking something in our human awareness? All the books, all the scriptures, which are true scriptures, have said one thing, that to know the Truth, you are to be born again. That’s not only in The Bible. Say, if you take Patanjali which is a very ancient book, it’s not that the Patanjali asked you to stand on your heads. [This understanding] is wrong. It’s just a wee, wee, wee, wee bit of that. But what Patanjali has written is that you have to achieve the Truth on your central nervous system through your ‘Atmasakshatkar’. The word is different, meaning: ‘the experience of your Spirit.’

Now English language has an advantage and a disadvantage – that the Spirit could be the Atma, the spirit could be an alcohol, or spirit could be a dead body. But it could be a disadvantage, because it is not so. They are three separate things. Absolutely opposite [to] each other. So [that] the Atma, the Spirit, has to be found out, is said even by Mohammed Sahib. He said, “You have to become the pir.” It’s said by Zoroaster, is said by Lao Tse, is also said by Zen. Buddha has said it. Mahavira has said it. Every one of them has said it. So many religions have started in the name of God without going to the Truth that – you have to be born again.

Now you have to be born again does mean that you certify yourself ‘I’m born again’. Self-certificate! You can go ahead, “I am a born again!” But you don’t become that. What is so special if you are born again? What should be so? The human awareness at this level is just ready to be born again. As in Sanskrit the word for a ‘bird’ is dwijaha – means born again. And also for a Brahmin who is born again. But those who call themselves Brahmins are not Brahmins. They just call themselves Brahmins. Have they come to know the Brahma, the All-pervading Power of God. Those who say that they are born again should feel the All-pervading Power of God around them. If they cannot feel it they are not born again. So all this self-certificate and deception, self-deception and deception of others, is just a money making process.

So the Truth has to be achieved through your evolutionary process which is a living process. Again we must understand – living process. Not through just talking [or] mental projections – sitting down here we talk about it –  or by giving you some courses, or taking some money from you. You cannot get it [like that]. It’s a state in a living growth, that proves that it is a living thing. Means the state of our awareness has to be higher than what it is. If our state cannot rise then it is not of any use. Like the seed becomes the roots then the bark, the leaves, the flowers then the fruit – different states. In the same way a living religion must give you a different state and that living religion is within ourselves. Everyone  has that. When we go against that living religion within us we go into imbalances.

But even today people can ask, “Why the religion? Why should we have a balance? What is the need? Let’s go into imbalances!” I mean, is a quite logical question [that] people can ask. Why have the religion in the stomach even? For what? So what is the religion – we come to that point – is that religion is the valency of human beings. Just like carbon has four valences human beings have ten valences, which matter does not have. Animals have nine and human beings have ten valences. And when these ten valences go out of balance then they go out of the quality of a human being.

But still one can ask, “Why should we have those ten valences?” Because you have to ascend. Because in the evolutionary process you have to ascend. And you can never be satisfied with yourself unless and until you have achieved it. Especially the seekers. That’s why I say they are the special category. Because, in this special category, men of God will have to become prophets, “and they will have powers to make others prophets,” said by William Blake. In your great country William Blake has said this. When is that going to happen? It has to happen today, tonight.

But there are barriers within us, built in. Not because of anything else but only because we have been seekers. We have been going to various roads of seeking, whatever suited us. Wherever we went to, we have tried to find something. And we have injured ourselves within ourselves sometimes. We have built up certain barriers. Now when you become the prophet you actually become your own master. You become a free person. You have to be a free person. So far you are not. You cannot overcome your own weaknesses, your own temptations, infatuations, emotional problems, mental worries. Why? Because you are still standing in the waves of this turmoil, this troubled area where you just see the waves all the time and you are frightened of getting drowned. But if you somehow or other get out of it and get into the boat of your own being, then you enjoy, you become the witness, the sakshi.

Even to understand the scriptures you have to become a free person, which you are not. You have to be your own master. For that you cannot pay. I am too free that I cannot accept anything. To get your freedom of Spirit you can’t pay because money is binding. Money has no value in the Divine field! Nothing can bring forth this but your own ascent. And how do we ascend? Is there anything built within us?

So whatever I am telling you today is the knowledge of the roots. What we see is the knowledge of the tree. We see it from outside. We see a leaf from out side. If you have to treat the leaf we have to go to the roots. But from outside, when we see the tree we are still outside the tree. When you have to treat the leaf, you have to go to the roots. If you pluck out the leaf, it is dead. Then [if] you put it under the microscope you can go on seeing cells after that you can see the nucleus. You can go on analysing it, and analysing it making it dead, dead and dead and dead. But to treat it you have to go to the roots. And this knowledge of roots we have know.

There’s nothing wrong in knowing something new. These are not new ideas. These are ancient ideas. Very ancient ideas. In The Bible it is described as The Holy Ghost. One priest was asked, I saw, on the television. A very high ranking priest, “What do you know about Holy Ghost?” He said, “I am agnostic.” So then they said, “Then what are you doing here?” He said, “I am doing my job!” If that is the attitude towards God, towards your inner knowledge, then you can never reach there, as you cannot reach the tree through the leaf – you have to go to the roots. This has been available only to seers like, you can say, William Blake. Like we had many in other countries. But they did not talk about it because perhaps that was not the time for people to know. But in many languages it is described.

Now the roots within us, if you can see this (chakra chart), are placed in this manner. When I went to America the Union Society invited me to talk to them about the unconscious. I had never read Jung, though I knew he was a realised-soul, at least he got his realisation at the later time. So I said, “Alright let me have one book, let me see what is he saying about.” And as I opened the book I saw a diagram, what he had drawn of a human being and I said, “That’s the mistake.” Because he saw human beings from outside and he described them in layers. Like first he said is the unconscious that cannot be expressed, manifested, then the unconscious that can be manifested, then he said above that is the sub-conscious. And then he said above that is the conscious mind. Then above that is the ego. Like layers, one after another.

Now when you are sitting here, though you are in layers, the path is laid down vertically (the path between the chairs in the hall). In the same way within us, God being the greatest organiser, He has not made us into layers but what he has made us [is] in a parallel way, as you can see there very clearly – left side and right side. Left side and right side [and] the central path. Three paths He has made within us for our evolutionary process. The central path works out our evolution. The left side gives us the desire and the right side gives us the power of action. These are just the principles I am telling you. But you can understand, slowly, when you grow, all the details about it.

The central path is evolution has brought you, today, to this level of human awareness. Now beyond that is a very short ascent, which you have to achieve, by which you become the Spirit. But there has to be some living process for this to happen. And what is that living process built within us? Is the reflection of the Holy Ghost within us in the triangular bone, which is called as ‘Kundalini’ in Sanskrit language. This exists within us. And you can see with your naked eyes, sometimes, in some people, where there is an obstruction in the higher centres, it starts pulsating. And when it ascends you can also see it clearly in some people when it is obstructed. Or through your stethoscope you can feel the percussion – which we call as anahatha – up to the top of the head here, where it pulsates and then it breaks. When this breaks the pulsation stops and you start feeling the cool breeze of the Holy Ghost coming out of your fontanel bone area. This is the happening and not the Truth. In the sense that the happening takes place so that you get connected with the Truth.

So the connection takes place and you start feeling on your finger tips the cool breeze of The Holy Ghost which surrounds you. Actually, you start feeling it. But then as the rational mind it says, “So what?” “Now we are feeling the cool breeze – so what?” Then one should know that when we have eyes we start seeing, when we have ears we start hearing, so now we have got new awareness, what is this awareness is the awareness of collective consciousness, that you become. Again I say, “You become!” You are not just certified but you become. It’s a question of becoming, that you become collectively conscious, that on your central nervous system you can feel another person, you can feel your Self, you can feel your centres which are shown here, you can feel the centres of others on your fingertips. And the best on this, is Mohammed Sahib, I would say, because he has written clearly, “At the time of resurrection your hands will speak.” But who talks about the resurrection? In nowhere people talk about it. They talk about the doomsday. Because they can frighten people of the doomsday first, and take advantage of it and make money out of it.

God who has created this Universe, He feels love, do you think he will destroy this great creation of His without giving us the fruit, without letting us know the fruit of his creation? He is the wisest of wise, the Greatest Compassionate source of love, how could he allow this Universe to be destroyed? Especially this Earth, which is a special present from Him. So don’t believe in all these stupid ideas of destruction and the Last Complete Devastation. Still lot of time. Let’s first enjoy the blessings of the Divine for which He has created you.

So the experience of Truth has to be felt on the central nervous system. The problem is not that you will not feel – you will feel it – but, as you know, the experience is very slow in the Western countries. I am sorry [to say that]. Not that you are in any way less seekers. You are very great seekers. I would say you are greater seekers than the Indians are, much greater seekers. Indians have still to cross lot of steps to come up to your level, no doubt. But while coming up to this level, you have gathered [a] lot of problems around you, and that’s why the seeking  sometimes takes time to express itself as a fruitful gain of Self-realisation.

So you will get your realisation, no doubt, but again the Kundalini goes down. I must tell you very frankly, because I cannot be dishonest with you. But it can be brought up by you, by understanding how to work it out. By co-operating with yourself, by understanding yourself that you are the temple of God and that you have to work it out with respect to yourself. And you have to give some time. I mean, in Caxton Hall, you must have seen, I had  thousands of people coming to me. I have been working in this England for twelve years now, twelve years. It’s the last year now. There’s a special reason for that. But what I find [is that] people get their realisation and then get lost. Then when they have some disease or something, they’ll telephone to me, “Mother, now I am in the lunatic asylum!” or, “I am suffering from cancer.” “Now that’s happening to me. Can you help me?” It’s too far gone a case [to help]. But if you know how to handle your roots, how to nourish it, how to look after it, then you flower out, you bear fruits, and by your fruits people know what you are. Then you become trees, giant trees, like Boddhi trees, and many who come under such trees, get realisation.

English are a great people no doubt. They are placed in a country which is the Heart of the Universe. You are very important. I have given the maximum time to England, you’ll be amazed. Maximum time. But the Sahaja Yogis who are not in England have grown much faster than in England. The reason is, it’s like the foundation that always gets damp here. You have to again puncture something inside the foundation, remove the dampness. Again it gets damp. Rather difficult! But once they are settled you will be circulating the Divine interpretation, the Divine experience of Truth, all over the world. You are like the heart point and this is what you have to do. We cannot be mediocres in Sahaja Yoga. There is no compromise with your Self. You become so powerful that you don’t compromise also. You can just get out of everything in no time. But you must accept yourself first of all, have faith in yourself. Once upon a time the English had too much faith in themselves, I mean extraordinarily ‘powerful’ people. Now they are the other way around – they have no faith. You see now the sap has come up, as in the dampness has come, “Oh, we are good for nothing!”

This is the second phase that I find in this country – it’s complete lethargy. “Oh what can happen? Let us be destroyed Mother! Now that’s the best for us!” Completely reconciled to our doom. And I look at them with great hope. They have to circulate. They are the cells, who are lying in the heart, who have to pump the heart. Now what am I to do? So I have to make a humble request with you: that I know the experience of Sahaja Yoga is slow but very steady and I am sure that today I have got people who are of [a] rare quality of courage. An assiduity, which was the English character, once upon a time. And that they will take it up seriously: their ascent and the ascent of the whole world.

We’ll be having about three more lectures and there I will be telling you more elaborately about Kundalini and the chakras and about all this knowledge. All this knowledge is available to you now, because it’s time was for you to know all these secrets.

Some newspaper people asked me, “Mother have you got your disciples all very great scholars?” I said, “No, they are all very ordinary people. Some may be – who are more difficult – but mostly they are very normal, ordinary people. Simple people. But what makes you think that way?” They said, “They are so scholarly they know so much!” Because you become The Knowledge.

So Truth is the knowledge. The rest of it is all mythical, is mythical. What do we know about things is all mythical, because whatever we see from outside, is outside. Like, I would say, we appreciate Mona Lisa, we appreciate the miracles as we say, the great miracles that human beings have created. Why? Why do we call them miracles? Sometimes we think that, maybe because it’s a very miraculous task, they have done – mentally we think – but actually it is not so. Because they have vibrations, they have Divine vibrations, they emit vibrations and they appeal to you because in your heart lies that Spirit which is the Universal Being and which gives that feeling of bewilderment when you see these great miracles that human beings have created. At least I have seen six of them, and all of them have tremendous vibrations. But unless and until you become a realised-soul, how will you know?

Now this is the only gap. And to become the realised-soul you have to have the ascent of the Kundalini and the proper state of that Kundalini to remain there. And that’s the point where I found we lack in the efforts, lack in courage, in patience.

So again and again I request you that – don’t be superficial. Let Americans be superficial. You’d better not be. You be solid people, serious. Take it up seriously! Because you are going to lead the Europeans, the Americans, even the Greeks, even the Italians. The problem is the horse is behind the cart! Sitting lethargically. Now what am I to do to the horse? That, “You get up now! Because of you the cart is not moving.” That’s why I make a very, very special request to you all, because you must decide that – if we get our Realisation, we’ll establish ourselves into Sahaja Yoga. For which you don’t have to pay, there’s no membership, there’s no organisation. Nothing. I have nothing to take from you. You can’t give me anything.

So I hope today, many who are new will get their Realisation and establish themselves and will not forget it. Because in the beginning the experience is very great, you feel as if you are coming out of a pub! I don’t know what that experience is! Must be terrific!(laughter) Because I see so many people coming and falling down and again so many going in. So I used to wonder, “How is it?” Must be some memory of something great, must be there!

So by God’s grace you should all get your Realisation and I would like to have some questions, but in that I would like to say that there are people I know, we have had before also, belonged to some gurus or something, paid by some gurus have come. Because the gurus are feeling that I am, in a way, attacking them. In a way, they feel that way because I say you cannot pay – so all their profession is finished! (laughter) So they get angry with me for that. So they might  be saying, “Ah, you go and attack Her.” And all sorts of things. And there could be some people who are aggressive because of other problems of ego or something. So you need not be aggressive. I have come here to give you what you have. And you need not be also docile about it or slavish. I have come here to give you or tell you, what is freedom.

Now you may also say, which is a very common question arising in your mind – and justifiable – that why should I do it. Now that’s the miserable part of it, that I have to do it. I wish you could do it – but you can’t – that’s the trouble. And if I have to do it, I don’t hurt your ego. No, I don’t want to hurt you. You see this is something people don’t understand that why should I do it? You can do it also but first I’ll have to take you a little bit ahead, your awareness has to grow a little more. And then you can do it on your own. But first definitely, I have to do that. Which is a headache [for me]. I tell you, it makes me also a miserable person because this is something, you know, thankless job of a Mother. But I have to do it. Maybe I am paid for it somehow! I don’t know. Whichever way it is. But it shouldn’t feel hurt about it! It’s a crucifixion, I tell you. It’s not easy. It’s a very difficult task. It’s like [lifting] mountains sometimes. The Kundalini is just embedded, poor thing, sometimes so hurt, so wounded that to raise that Kundalini, itself, takes such a lot of effort. But one has to do it and I knew I have to do it.

When you will know what it is you will not be angry with me, but you will understand the task ahead of us, all of us. All of us have to do it.

May God bless you all.

Now, as this is the first programme, I would like to have questions. But sensible questions which will help everyone to ascend. It should not be ‘dog in the manger’ policy – that you don’t want to ascend? Alright, goodbye! We cannot force. Actually we cannot force it. It has to be asked for otherwise I cannot do it. You have to knock at the door otherwise [the] door cannot be opened. So those who do not want it should not bother to ask me questions. I have seen mostly the people who ask me the questions are the first to go away. So, this is not meant for such people. I mean, for that you can join, say miner’s strike or something like that. (Laughter) (There was a big coal miner’s strike in UK in 1984). But this is not the place for such people who want to fight it out. It is something that’s so beautiful, that is your own, which has to be opened out. So you can ask me questions will be a good idea.

Thank you very much.

(nobody asks any questions)

That doesn’t mean you should not ask me questions (laughter). You shouldn’t be frightened. You should ask, you must.

No questions at all ? Now, I’ll ask one question. How many are new people to Sahaja Yoga? Absolutely new. Please raise your hands, please. Can I request you to come in the front two rows, all of you, please. If you don’t mind. [It] will be a better idea. Because I want to look after you. Please.

Front two rows you can occupy. Front rows you can occupy. Please.

Now it is a very collective working, extremely collective. See, like this finger has some pain so the other hand comes round and presses it and puts it right. Alright ? So we are all part and parcel of One Being. As you call them, the microcosm and the macrocosm. And only thing [is] the ones which are awakened will help to awaken the rest of it. That doesn’t mean anybody is superior or higher or lower. There is no obligation. Like my own finger paining if I try to rub it, am I obliging that finger? No, I am not. Because I can’t live without that. I can’t bear the pain. And this is me, and this is me too. In the same way it works out.

So we’ll try to work it out and, when it works out, some of the Sahaja Yogis will come and see what the situation is, what are the centres in trouble. Nobody should feel bad about it. With all respect to you it will be done. So one should not feel bad or sad about it [or] in anyway hurt. Why I am saying so [is] because, you see sometimes people feel that they are challenged. They feel that way. You should not. It’s for your good, for your health. So, I am just trying to tell you as a mother would say that, “It’s alright, you see, and there’s nothing wrong with you.” So, don’t be frightened of anyone. Don’t be angry with anyone. Specially with yourself don’t be angry and it will all work out.

Now, another thing I have to request is to take out your shoes for one reason that this Mother Earth helps us a lot and if you take out your shoes the Mother Earth, you see, for earthing’s sake, it is better to take out. Everything is so much artificial that it’s impossible to reach the Mother Earth somehow.


Put both the feet straight like this. It helps that’s why. Just to help.

And sit in such a way that your back is straight. Not too much of like this, forward, or bent. But in a straight way, in a simple manner. ‘Sahaj’ also means ‘a simple way, spontaneous.’ As you sit, spontaneously.