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Radio Interview. Brighton (UK), 26 July 1984.
Interviewer: This time show. Now nowadays there are many people who reach a state of depression, unsure which way they should turn, often taking drugs to compensate, looking to religious or alternative lifestyles to shed a new light on their lives when now apparently a silent revolution has been growing, led by a spiritual leader, Shri Mataji. I am pleased to welcome Her to the studio now. Hello, Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: Hello.
Interviewer: Now, first of all, let’s talk about the thing that you, the process you are involved in. It’s called Sahaja Yoga.
Shri Mataji: Yes.
Interviewer: First of all, let’s ascertain what exactly yoga is.
Shri Mataji: Yoga means, there are two meanings to word yoga. The first meaning is the union with the Divine that your attention becomes one with the Divine, or you can say that you become one with the Spirit. Second meaning of yoga is depthness. Or you can as call it technique, depthness of the divine laws. But unless and until you get united with the Divine you cannot use the technique.
Interviewer: Right, now…
Shri Mataji: Sahaja means, “saha” means with, “ja” means born, means it is spontaneous. It is a living process of evolutionary ascent, the last breakthrough.
Interviewer: Right. Now, taking it one step further, how do you go about, what is this? Is it, it’s the Self-realization. Is this the same thing?
Shri Mataji: Yes, it is Self-realization. It is the last breakthrough of our evolution, that we become the Spirit. As Christ has said that, “You are to be born again.” And when Nicodemus asked Him that, “What do you mean? Have I to enter again into the womb of my mother?” He said, “No, the flesh is born out of flesh but I am talking about the Spirit and you should be born out of Spirit.” Now we have within us this power in the sacrum bone called as Kundalini, in Sanskrit language, but in the Christian language it is called as the Holy Ghost.
Now this power of Holy Ghost is actually the desire to be one with the Divine. And it is resting there till you get somebody who knows how to awaken it spontaneously and it rises and you get your real baptism and not the baptism so-called. But this power has to be in the person as the Mother Earth has power to sprout the seed. In the same way it just is a living process that works it out.
Interviewer: So what sort of thing do you think you can accomplish with this yoga? What sort of thing can one assume if you follow it?
Shri Mataji: First and foremost thing that happens to you, that your awareness receives or enters into a new dimension of collective consciousness. That means you start feeling your own centers. You start feeling the centers of others. Like Mohammed Sahib has very clearly said that at the time of Resurrection your hands will speak. So you start feeling the centers of another person on your fingertips, as in English language is a very good phrasing, “on the fingertips”. And you can make it out what’s wrong with another person, what’s wrong with you. And if you have the second thing that is the technique, how to cure yourself or to cure another person, you can cure. But it’s not only physical. It’s physical, mental, emotional, all cures. Apart from that you become the source of peace, bliss and compassion. So you don’t have to do anything. It’s just effortless. You give it effortlessly. You get it effortlessly. Because it is built within you. It’s just to happen. Like this your instrument has to be connected to the mains. In the same way.
Interviewer: Yes. Yes. Yes.
Shri Mataji: It’s the same. It works the same way.
Interviewer: Is it your religious based would you say that?
Shri Mataji: All the religions are here, all the religions. But the way people are doing about, going about religion I don’t think it has anything to do with real religion. The real religion is within ourselves and it is the one that gives us balance in life. Now, this religion whatever is so far comes to us from, say, Christ or from Mohammed or from other great saints or great prophets, is just a step forward towards this happening. Like a seed grows into a plant, then into a tree and then the flowers appear. So this is the blossom time. And so many flowers have to become the fruits. They are all connected. So you are not to disregard anyone. They are all within us. They are like milestones of our progress.
Interviewer: So despite the fact you look into yourself is it insular or can you share it with lots of other people?
Shri Mataji: It is absolutely collective. You become a collective being and you cannot keep it to yourself. You have to share it. Otherwise you cannot enjoy. It’s like a microcosm becoming a macrocosm. You should become one with the whole. And so many become one with the whole and you will feel the same way. Even a child who’s a realized soul feels the same way as anybody else.
Interviewer: So how long would it take to see me, say if I want to take up this yoga, how long from the state I am now?
Shri Mataji: A spilt of a second.
Interviewer: No, no.
Shri Mataji: Yes, it is a split of a second. But we have barriers, because we have mental barriers, we have sometimes health barriers. So doesn’t matter, but still it doesn’t take much time. Everybody can get it. Every human being can take it.
Interviewer: How did you get involved in it? What’s Your background?
Shri Mataji: I, I, it’s a very ancient background I have. But when I was born I knew I have to do this job and I knew that I had all these things within Myself. So to describe the background I think I’ll have to write a book. But in any case I would say that I deliberately got My birth in [a, the] Christian religion. My father was Christian, mother was Christian. But they were not the type of Christians who just go to church, come back home. They were very learned people. And my father was a scholar of Sanskrit. He knew fourteen languages and he also translated Quran Sharif and all that. And My mother was a honours of Mathematics, very learned people. And they believed in the real religion, in the balance of religion. And both were realized souls. They were already Spirits, you see, so I had no problems with them.
Interviewer: Why do you think these certain yoga and certain beliefs in religions and cults come from the eastern parts of the world as opposed to the western? Is there any reason [there, for that]?
Shri Mataji: You see, in the West I think, you see, people took more to the achievement in matter, that how to master the matter, how to get the matter. You see, that was a good movement, of course, helpful for spiritual ascent also because if there were no telephones or televisions and [how?] I could not have worked as fast as I am working now. So it is of use, but the main thing is you have to achieve is to be the Spirit. And by all these affluent achievements people are now turning to the Spirit because they know that there is no joy in it. So now they are turning to it. It’s also this was a necessary step for so many people that they came to this. But India has been a traditional country and people have been thinking about it since long, and they have discovered so many things since long and if you have to understand Bible is better to read some of these books so that you understand Christ, you understand everybody because He is described in those books, how He will come, who He was, how He was. His background is given. In the Bible there is no background of Christ, you see.
So most of these religions are coming from the East perhaps because I think these people also feel that we can give them something that we have. But nowadays it’s a market and people are just selling religion and they are befooling people. They are doing all kinds of nonsensical things. And in the west the people are so naive that they don’t understand that you cannot purchase it, you cannot pay for it. First thing you must put a stop at the place where they start selling it. You cannot sell it. You cannot organize it. You cannot organize God. God can organize you. All these things if you understand in a very simple way you can avoid all this nonsense.
Interviewer: There’s probably skeptic actually, especially in the west, who would allot all these cults, religions and things under one blanket, under one, put into one area. You know, is it right to maintain, are you often mistaken the people are the Moonies or something, I don’t know, but moneymaking enterprise or something like that?
Shri Mataji: But they more go to those things, you see. Because they are more enamored by the money they have, the Rolls Royces they have. This is the trouble with them. When I went to America, they asked Me â€’ there was somebody phoning in the radio â€’ they asked Me, “How many Rolls Royces She has?” So I said, “I don’t have any.” So they said, “We are not interested”. Can you believe it? It’s like that. So because you people get impressed by these nonsensical things which are material these people are effective. If you remember about two years back I have told about the Scientologists here because I saw them, very active, in the [East Linstead?] or something. So I talked against it. But nobody paid any heed and now today you can see these things. But first test you must put, what transformation it is going to give you, and those who have got it, what have they got themselves? Just a blindfolded why should we jump on to something?
Interviewer: Right. I’m afraid we are going to have to leave it there, Shri Mataji. And thank You very much for joining me today. You will be appearing at the Town Hall tonight at seven thirty p.m. and anybody can go along and see You, can they?
Shri Mataji: Yes, whole hall.
Interviewer: The whole Town Hall they do.
Shri Mataji: The whole Town Hall. Oh, I’m sorry.
Interviewer: Yes, that’s it. I’ve got the details and I’ll give it out towards then end of the program again. Thank you very much for joining me. Thank you.
Shri Mataji: Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you.
H.H. Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi