Public Programme

Teesside University, Middlesbrough (England)


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Public Programme, Teesside Polytechnic, Middlesbrough (England), 31 July 1984.

I bow to all the seekers of truth.

First of all we have to know what truth means. We want to seek truth, there’s an urge within us that we have to seek the truth. Because of this seeking only we all have become human beings. Now after human beings stage, what is going to happen to us?

As it is, you find there is so much of confusion in this world, so much of confusion, so many ideas, so many thoughts, so many ideologies, so many religions. All kinds of things have come up and a simple human starts looking at it and he gets quite puzzled, “What sort of thing this world is?” It’s a very confused world, first of all. The confusion gives you a greater urge to seek, because you find, “What’s this going on?”

Secondly, I went round your city today just to vibrate the whole place and I felt the place has got a kind of a feeling of dullness and I asked the person who was driving Me, I said, “Why the people here are looking very dull?” He said, “The people are now without any jobs,” so I said that should happen to any country which is so industrially developed.

When we are industrially developed, you see, all our industrial wants are over perhaps, then we start seeking more because we think now we’ve got everything, we’ve got proper dress to wear, we’ve got food, we’ve got everything, now what next? And that’s how we become dull because we don’t understand the meaning of life. Now this meaning of life is more in the people who are affluent and has to be less in the people who are still developing because they want to become like you, have all plastics around them, they want to have foundries with all pollution, everything. Once they have that then they will start seeking.

But in a country like India which has been a very different type of a country I say, because of climatic position. It’s very good climate, like this, it is always there, so you can be always out in the villages, you can be in the forest and you don’t have to worry so much to fight the nature. So in such a place people have been meditating and trying to find out, “Why are we here?”

Now all these things when you see the development everywhere, you find it’s like the tree, the tree outside you see very well developed. But any tree that has developed very much must have very deep roots, otherwise it will be all finished and destroyed. So when there is such a lot of development outside, there must have been some development inside also, the roots. And this is what we are going to tell you about the roots now because your development is sufficiently enough and if you have to sustain this development you must know about your roots.

We have neglected our roots very much and that’s the reason today we also find people suffering from terminal diseases and all kinds of trouble. That is one of the first worry for Me that everyone should be healthy and that health comes to you not from outside, from inside. Because supposing if on a tree you find a leaf is sick and you start treating the leaf, you don’t treat the tree. You don’t treat the disease at all. But if you have some means of entering into the roots, you treat the whole of that tree very well, very easily in a very simple manner. In the same way if you can somehow reach your roots, you can treat yourself without much difficulty, without any medicine also.

Now where are these roots? Or for that you have to see to this chart, I don’t know if everybody can see this chart, that within us this beautiful instrument is placed, and this is what is described in the Bible as the tree of life. Unless and until you achieve a state which we call as self-realization, which Christ called as the second birth we cannot understand what is this. Because now you are listening to Me very closely but if I say, “Pay attention to yourself within,” you cannot. It’s a difficult thing, our attention is outside. Now what should happen for that?

There’s a happening that takes place, because of that happening your attention is attracted inside. And once the attention is inside, the same attention gets the enlightenment of this power which is within you, as in the sacrum bone, sacrum meaning sacred, that means the Greeks knew about it. When this power rises, awakens, it’s like the primule in the seed, the germinating power of the seed and it just gives you a new dimension. It enriches your subtle centers. These subtle centers actually are the subtle entities of the gross plexuses. When they’re exhausted you suffer from diseases.

Now for example, today’s article made Me think that I should tell you how we get a particular disease called horrible cancer and that is so common in the West, not so much in the developing countries as it is here. They say cancer is a rich man’s disease. The thing is that within us there are two systems, of nervous systems which cater us. One of them is the one called as the central nervous system, another is the one which we call as autonomous nervous system. Now the doctors are honest, they just call it by name, autonomous. Now if you ask them, “Who is this auto,” they won’t be able to tell you. Just they call it some name, autonomous. This auto is the Spirit in the heart and this auto if you somehow or other bring into your attention the light of the auto comes into your attention, you start controlling your being completely. This is a simple method I’m telling you.

Now the nature of the roots is such that this autonomous nervous system has three channels. The two channels of the left and the right sympathetic nervous system and the central one is the parasympathetic. Now you can see here the three channels but these are the subtle channels which control, which control the gross channels. Now these subtle channels work out in such a way that the left-side channel caters to your past, caters to what has happened, caters to your conditioning. It is what we call as the channel of the moon, or this is the one that works out the power of desire within us.

The right-side channel is the channel which works out the action, so it is the channel of the action, caters to your future, to your mental activities and to your physical activities. It is called as the channel of the sun. Now both of them are parallel to each other. Now when a human being tries to find out something, he tries always to go to the extremes, in anything. Supposing he goes to the pub then he must drink the whole of it. If he goes to some other work, he must finish off his work with completely dedication, as they call it and exhaust all his life doing that. Always we go to extremes, either to the left or to the right.

Now if a person is a person of moderation, he stays in the center. The central path is for our evolution. The whole of matter has evolved, as you know there’s a chart and in the chart if you find the periodic laws the nature are so beautifully made and it is all very much balanced. And in the center lies the carbon and the carbon is in the first center lies within us. Now all these centers are nothing but the steps of our evolution. Like we were first carbon, then we became animals, then we became human beings and now we are seekers. That’s how we develop one after another and the evolution takes place and we become human beings.

Now the question comes, what next? Why are we here? We are human beings but what are we to achieve next. If this question doesn’t come into your mind then it will come later on, no doubt, but it’s better that the time is here for you to seek that; why are we on this earth? We are here on this earth, like this instrument if you make, you’ll ask, “Mother why are you making this instrument?” This instrument is made to carry My voice. In the same way you the human beings are made instruments of God. Now you’re to be employed by God and He’s going to use you and this power is going to flow through you. Only thing is, you have to be connected to the mains and this connection takes place through the ascent of this Kundalini which is actually the Holy Ghost in the Bible.

In the Bible nothing has been written about Holy Ghost as such. I asked a priest, “What do you mean by Holy Ghost?” So he tells Me, “I’m agnostic about it.” So I said, “Then why are you there? What are you doing?” So he says, “I’m doing my job.” There’s no job in God’s realm, like that where you can get money without knowing what you are doing. You’re supposed to know what you are doing. You are supposed to know what Holy Ghost is and you are supposed to know where it is. You just cannot get a job, become something and profess something without knowing much about it.

And this is what is the dilemma of today’s religions, not one but all of them. They do not know that they have to be born again, first of all to profess any religion. Christ has said so clearly that you are to be born again. And when Nicodemus asked Him, “What do you mean by born again? Have I to enter my womb again?” He said, “No. The flesh gives birth to flesh but I’m talking about the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit has to give birth to your Spirit.”

And that’s what it is, the Holy Spirit within you is this three and a half coiled Kundalini or the Holy Spirit. Now through meditative processes because as I told you the attention of Indians was more inward so they tried to find out how we are made. And this is not the knowledge of today, it’s a very ancient knowledge. A book written about a person fourteen thousand years back has described in all details all the things I’m telling you but we have never come to know about it. Neither we tried to look at it. Even about Christ there’s so much written in those books thousands of years back. About Mohamad thousands of years back, we never try to translate those things or bring this knowledge to that level that everybody could read it. But now it is possible for you to understand that you’re not only the body, mind, ego, superego, but you’re something much more. And that much more is the Spirit and the truth is that you have to become the Spirit.

Once you become the Spirit, means when you become the light what you do exactly is to give the light. But before that there are lots of hurdles, like as I told you there’s cancer, this, that, all kinds of diseases that hurt human beings. There are mental diseases, there are emotional problems, there are all kinds of problems and they can only be solved if you go to your roots.

Now let us see a simple case of cancer, for Me , it is simple because it can be cured very simply. Now for example, you take one of the centers, it’s like this within us, like this, you can see, all of you. And this center is inside here. While this is the left and the right sympathetic nervous systems and in the center we can say is the parasympathetic which supplies the balance, which supplies all the energy that is needed for the left and the right. When we go into any emergency, for example, if you start running then the heart starts pulsating very fast. But it comes to normal through the central path of parasympathetic. Now what happens that this center supposing is used too much because of our extreme habits, you see, you use too much. Anyway, then what happens, that starts breaking this chain and you lose your contact with the whole. Then you become on your own, means you become malignant. The cells become malignant, they start eating other cells without any relationship to the whole. You don’t know how far to go. Supposing you develop a cancer of the nose, the nose cells start becoming bigger, they start eating other cells and whosoever they touch, like an egoistical man, like Hitler, whosoever they touch, that cell again becomes malignant and then that starts eating and that’s how the whole body becomes malignant.

This is how cancer is set in, a simple thing. But recently, about a year back, I saw a very interesting television show of the doctors. They said that the vulnerability of cancer is present in every human being because we live on extremes all the time, but the triggering takes place when some entity attacks you from the area built in within you since your creation. And this area we call in Sahaja Yoga as the collective subconscious. That is whatever is dead within us resides in that area. Now this is the area beyond the left sympathetic. So those people who go too much to the left side, too much to the emotional side or those who go and bow to wrong type of gurus, wrong type of people and accept wrong type of religions, I should say where you take to dead, to spiritualists, spiritual work and all those things are very much vulnerable to diseases like cancer. Cancer is not the right side disease but heart attack could be a right side as well as a left side disease.

Like in Sahaja Yoga we have two types of hearts, not one type. One is the over active, another is the lethargic heart. Now the people who are over active, you see, all the time running, looking at the watches and just on the run, you see, all such people have an over active heart which is absolutely exhausted. And the attention is so much outside that the Spirit in the heart is agitated and it recedes and you get a heart attack. Now there’s another type of a heart which is lethargic, which takes to emotional side, weeps all the time, sings about the past, “My father was so rich and I’m so poor,” all those things, you see, specially the ladies have that problem. And then when they start talking too much about the left side then what happens, the lethargic heart becomes a problem because you develop symptoms like angina and all these things. So we have two types of hearts. Now you cannot treat a person who has two styles, I mean, everybody cannot be treated the same way because we have two types of heart troubles.

Now in the medical science which I have done Myself is there’s only one type of human being. They do not separate one from another. But in everyday life you see we are so different from each other. So there are three types of people actually, one of them are the ones who are futuristic, another are the ones who live in the past and the others who are in the center. And they have three types of combinations then, that permutations and combinations work out with these, mainly, we should say, nine types of people. But then there can be even greater permutations and combinations depending on the kinds of people they meet, the kinds of people they admire or live with, or dominated with or dominate.

So we have very complicated human beings in this world, doesn’t matter but they can brought down to the simple thing as left, right and center. If you can bring them down and classify them to these three things it’s very easy to treat them. Because if somebody is a right-sided person, he’ll have certain symptoms, he’ll be hot-tempered fellow, he’ll have a liver trouble. He’ll be thin, he’ll be shouting all the time on top of his voice. He may be good outside but in his family he would be very hot-tempered. He may be a person who is egoistical but maybe that he’ll look very humble because he has to deal with people and maybe that he may be very, very aggressive to such a point that he might become sadistic.

Now the another type who want always to run away, escape, they could be these, not people who will be grossly aggressive but will be very sly and will be trying all tricks and playing games and intriques and all sorts of things and also they will be living with their past, this type of thing.

Now there are people who are in the center, the people who are moderate, who take life pleasantly, not bothered so much about life, life’s complications but keep above it. And they lead a very normal life, they do not indulge into any nonsensical things. These are the central type of people and that’s why all the religions came on this earth to establish that balance within. Religions, all of them came on this earth to establish that balance. Why the balance, again the question can come up, why the balance. The balance is for our ultimate ascent, for example, if you have to take an aeroplane, ascend it, you have to first see if it is balanced or not, otherwise it will be not floating horizontally but it might go one-sided, so one has to have a balance in life. But if you read yourself, if you face yourself you will understand that, “No, we are not so much balanced as we should have been.”

So this balance has to be brought in, in human beings and that’s why we had great prophets on this earth to teach us the balance. And these prophets came at a time where we needed this balance, at every time people became imbalanced they came on this earth to teach us balance. When this balance is lost, mostly we develop diseases. Even in religious things we can be very imbalanced. Like I’ve seen people reading Bible for three hours, what is the need to read Bible, I mean, for three hours you don’t learn anything. Actually if you understand religion, is not to be read, but to be felt and experienced within yourself. Religion is like the ten valencies of human beings. And the ten valencies of the human beings, when we lose the valencies we lose our balance. Now anything like, say a country which is over-developed loses its balance. A country which is under-developed also can lose its balance. Anywhere it can happen the same way, makes no difference whether you’re developed or under-developed, you’re in the same way whether the balance is up or down, makes no difference. So it is like that.

Now with the Kundalini what happens, the first thing it does is to create the balance within. When She rises in that part of the thing, area of the stomach it creates the balance, it brings forth the balance. Once the balance has come then it’s much easier for you to balance all the chakras which have gone upside down or which are crooked and the balance comes and fix them together. With that balance the chakras get their forms all right and because of that the Kundalini rises. She rises and pierces through your fontanelle bone area which is the true baptism. It’s not like somebody coming putting water onto your head and say, “Now you’re baptized.” And we accept it. It’s just a exercise, there’s no truth about it. The cool breeze of the Holy Ghost has to be felt on top of your head.

So the truth has to be felt on your central nervous system, that means you must feel them on your finger tips. Mohamad Sahib has clearly said that at the time of Resurrection your hands will speak. But nobody wants to talk of Resurrection, nobody wants to talk of something that is good to happen, that there will be a period where people will be redeemed, that there will be a Redeemer, there will be a Counsellor; nobody wants to talk of that. They want to talk of the doomsday because people will be frightened and they’ll be pouring money for them. It’s a money-making fright which is created in people. The God Almighty who has created this beautiful universe has created you as special people who are human beings, do you think He’s going to allow us to destroy His great creation? He’s made us so beautifully within ourselves and we have to just understand that you’re not what you seem to be, you’re much greater, you’re much more, you are glorified by Him. Because only this thing has to happen and once it happens you’ll be surprised that you become in charge of yourself, that you become empowered with that power of God which flows through you. You can cure people, you can help people, you can raise Kundalini, you can get rid of all these stupid problems, all these big problems and all the universal problems because a transformation takes place within you.

We had an alcoholic in Brighton one day, he came to the program completely drunk and he started abusing Me. I just smiled at him. Next day he came and he got his realization. Today he’s a first class man, he’s earning such a lot of money, he’s doing so well. So what happens to you that you become yourself and to become yourself means you become the Spirit, and Spirit is the reflection of God within yourself. Once that happens, you become the dynamic power of God and you’re surprised the miraculous way you’re helped.

Now of course, Sahaja Yoga has definitely cured cancer, no doubt, it can cure so many diseases. But when we wrote to the British council about it and they found out that we were curing people, they said, “There’s a big red tape going on,” they’ve to go through the files, they’ve to find out, this, that. So we said, “All right, doesn’t matter, let them have their own time.” But Sahaja Yoga is not only for physical being because you’re not only physical being. I tell you there are many wrestlers and boxers who come to Me and say, “Mother,” who are very, very sturdy people, they say, “Mother, we have no peace, give us peace.”

So it is not for physical being, it is not for mental being, it’s not for emotional being but it is for your spiritual being. But as you’re the temple of God, the temple has to be cleansed. When some guest is coming to your house, we clean the house, make it beautiful, put flowers, decorate it. In the same way, when your Spirit is going to enter into your attention your body has to be cleansed, your mind has to be purified and that you have to become a beautiful temple for that enlightenment. And that’s how as a by-product of this Kundalini awakening you get cured.

Now what happens to your awareness, that you become collectively conscious. You become, again I say there’s no certificate. In Sahaja Yoga there’s no membership, of course you must have heard, there’s no money to be paid or anything. I mean, it is stupid, how can you pay money to God, what does He understand about money? How much money are you going to pay for yourself, first of all. He has given beautiful eyes to us, what do we pay Him, nothing; on the contrary we spoil them all the time by looking at things with lust and greed, we spoil them. We have adultery in our eyes, so we spoil them, the beautiful innocent eyes that He has given us, the pure eyes, we spoil them.

But when you’re awakened, your eyes become so beautiful that you look at the person, the person gets all right. Your presence, merely your presence can help so many. But you have to achieve that state. Now as he said, you cannot demand it, you see, there’s no shop here. In a shop you pay the money so you can demand, “All right, come along, this was bad and I paid so much money.” But here what do you give? Your seeking, you’re seeking the higher being, you’re not seeking your cure but you’re seeking the higher being within you. The property, the wealth of spirituality that resides in all of us. It is there, it is all there, only thing we have to pay attention to it and get it.

Now you become collectively conscious means you start feeling other people on your finger tips. Even a child can say, “This is the problem, this is the problem,” now you have to just know what these denote and that’s what I have decoded that this means heart, this means something else, this means something else and all the centers, the five and the sixth and the seventh centers, on the left and the right hand side. So immediately you’ll know the person’s suffering.

But we don’t talk like doctors, we don’t say, “This fellow is egoistical,” not like that. But we’ll say, “His Agnya chakra in the front is catching,” that means he’s egoistical. But we don’t say that. Even a person will come and say, “Mother today my Agnya is catching, just take it out,” meaning, “I’ve been egoistical.” So the language is different as you must have read in the Bible that when they got their realization through the Holy Ghost they started speaking in strange languages. That doesn’t mean that they started speaking in Latin or Hebrew. It means that they started speaking in the languages of chakras, of centers, of the subtle centers. They started talking about the channels, because you become subtle, you start seeing something subtle. Like the way you see colors, animals do not see. The way you see filth and dirt the animals do not see. But when you become realized souls you see the dirt and filth of a much subtler nature. That is the sin that they call it or anything like that. So you become separated from this, you start witnessing the whole world like a witness. You become collectively conscious, so supposing you get cured, so-called by Me, so-called, I would say, then there’s no obligation because if you’re part and parcel of Me, whom do I help? If this finger is paining and I rub it like this, whom do I help, I help Myself, isn’t it?

So you become part and parcel of the whole and when you become part and parcel of the whole, the whole thing works out in such a homogenous way. As a result of that the people in England who were suffering from many diseases, people in Australia, so many countries now we have, most of the European countries we have tackled, have been cured. They have been cured of their diseases, of their ailments, they’ve become so powerful that they have no habits, nothing can deter them. They’re very joyous, happy people, if you see their photographs, you’ll say they’re lotuses sitting down beautifully placed. And the same thing is happening in India where I’m working for a much shorter time than I have worked in England.

England has a special place, I must say because in the universe England is the heart of the universe. Perhaps you do not realize, you’re not aware of it. But English are very balanced people compared to all other Western people, I must say. But despite that sometimes you go off because you’ve lost your confidence, you try to follow French, you try to follow Americans, they have to follow you, not that you have to follow them. You can articulate. Now once upon a time it was the industrial development and all these things were there, so you articulated into these but now that is over. Now it has to be spiritual development, for that also I think one has to work out in England. And that’s how perhaps My husband got elected to this job and had to come to England. I’ve been here for ten years while in India I was just two years after I started My work. Of course I travel all over and the most wonderful thing I’ve found out about the Western people is that their hankering is no more now for material things. It looks little bit but is not so much. Once they get to their realization they want to save others, they want to help others.

Now all the way Dr. Warren has come from Australia. Now they said the psychology is such if the Australians talk to the English they feel happy. So we sent English to America and you’ll be surprised that in Houston an Englishman went there and he was regarded as a very respectable man, you see, and they all listened to him nicely. It’s a funny psychology but we have great Sahaja Yogis even in England. In England we have very great people who have mastered the art and once you know this you become so scholarly that many atimes these newspaper people ask Me, “Have you got all your disciples as scholars?” I said, “No, they’re not My disciples, they’re children.”

But they become scholarly because they get to the essence of knowledge and this is the true knowledge. The otherwise whatever knowledge we have is of the dead. For example I was looking at your foundries, what do we do? We take out the dead and make something out of it. Can we make anything living? Can we transform these flowers into fruits? We cannot. After realization you start doing the living work and this is the process which a living work of living God. So you just cannot say that, “I stand on my head and I get the Kundalini there,” or, “I cut my hair short or I have another kind of a dress.” It’s nothing outside. It’s inside the happening takes place and you become another person.

In Sanskrit language we call a bird as dwijaha, means born again and a Brahmin, the one who has known the power of Brahma, the power of God’s love, is called also dwijaha. Dwija, means the one who is born again. Now a bird is first is an egg and then it becomes a bird. That’s why you’ll be surprised that Christ when He was crucified and when He was resurrected on the Easter day it is to show that a person leaves this material body and becomes the Spirit. Resurrection is the message of Christ which is a very great thing He achieved because He was nothing but Himself the Brahma, the Chaitanya, Omkara, what you call the word. So that’s why He could achieve that thing.

It’s all written about Him in Indian Scriptures. You have to go out to see all these things, what is the thing written about Christ. Bible cannot contain Him within Himself and the four years life that He led in this misery is not representative of His whole background. If you have to know about His background you have to read some books which were written fourteen thousand years back. They have told about that. So when He resurrected what we do, we present an egg on the Easter Sunday. What does that mean? That on a Easter Sunday you’re an egg and on the Easter Monday you are the bird. But we don’t know, we do it just automatically without understanding why we give those eggs to people. This is what we have to understand. Even to understand Bible we have to be self-realized, even to understand the life of Christ which was just so great we have to be realized.

Now the controversy about Christ has started, it really pains Me that these people don’t want to take their realization, otherwise how can you explain to them any miracle whatsoever? Life is full of miracles. Even in My lifetime people have seen miracles happening.

I don’t know if they have brought the photograph. Once I was giving a lecture in a very remote village where there was a very great soul who had died. And as soon as I entered the village I told them who was the great soul who lived here. They said he was a Muslim called as Mia. And I sat down for My lecture and suddenly I found that I got connected and there was a big light on My head coming. And then I saw it seven times the light was there and I got connected and it showed that, that he was there with Me. And then suddenly I stopped it, like this laughing. Imagine the photograph was taken by one girl and all these seven stages were clearly shown and you could see the light there. Now these boys went to show to someone, they said, “Oh you must have arranged all these in the village.” But it was not, in that remote village there is no electricity also. So where’s the question of… and why should we arrange that?

There are so many miracles that have taken place in Sahaja Yoga, so many miracles. I mean the President of India was cured of his cancer in five minutes, you won’t believe it. He came to London from his operation and it was very unsuccessful and he was going to die. And because of My husband I went to see him. We knew him otherwise but he didn’t know Me that I was also Mataji Nirmala Devi because I don’t tell this to these bureaucrats, they’re rather difficult people. So it so happened that one of the… that was B. K. Nehru who was the High Commissioner, he told, “Do you know this lady is Mataji Nirmala Devi?” And the wife of the President had heard My name as Mataji Nirmala Devi also and she said, “Mataji, why don’t you cure my husband?” And he said, “Yes I didn’t know you were Mataji Nirmala Devi.” I said, “All right.” So I put My hand on his back. In five minutes…, he could not sleep, he was so much with pain. He said, ” I’m so much relieved I want to lie down and sleep.” He went off to sleep.

They had prepared for his cremation and everything in India and a big show was there, imagine, and they reached with the ambulance there. And there he walked down the steps and they saw him, they thought, “Is this his ghost walking or what.” He told Me all the story in a very jocular way and he said that, “I don’t know, I went after that I forgot that I was sick and I went on a tour.” And next year when I went his wife showed Me that even the mark of the operation had gone, but I must say he must have been a very great soul to get that way, in such a simple way. And then he said, “You must have Mother some land because you must have some place where people should meet you.” And so he allotted some land to us and that’s how now we have some land in Delhi.

But what I’m trying to tell you that miracles are the nature of God. For human beings He’s miraculous, isn’t it? He’s not human being, how can we judge Him with our limited brain. He can do whatever He likes and He is full of miracles. These intellectuals cannot understand Him. For example Paul, he was an intellectual, he was no way a free man, he was not a realized soul and how can he understand Christ, he cannot. Because he was just an organizer and intellectual. You have to be a realized soul and you’ll be surprised Khalil Gibran has clearly written about Paul if you read him because Khalil Gibran was a realized soul that, “I can’t understand this strange man and he’s not a free soul,” and how is he in Bible?

When I first saw the Bible I was surprised. I said, “How is he here? Who is he? I have never known him.” That’s what it is but we get enamored by his organizing capacity, the way he’s organized it. You cannot organize God, can you? How can you organize God? Nobody should feel shattered because they are saying they were not miracles and they were . You will meet so many miracles as soon as you will become the Spirit. God is full of miracles. Every miracle that is described of Christ is true. It was an immaculate conception. And we have His previous life, we know how He was created on this earth through complete immaculate conception by a virgin and everything we know about it in India and Indians are shocked how could you accept such a nonsense from people who are just intellectuals, they’re not realized souls.

Thank God in India even today people know what is a realized soul is. Even the president, he would not sit down when I went to see him. He would not sit down, I said, “Sir, I’m your citizen,” he said, “No, Mother you’re a saint.” And he sat on the ground, he wouldn’t sit with Me on the same couch which he was having. That’s what it is. Our sensitivity in the West is gone down because of intellectualism. Even the science is a barrier, all these things are barriers, you see, and this barrier we must understand we have to become the same innocent person as Christ has said that you have to become children to enter into the kingdom of God. And this happens to you as soon as the Kundalini rises you become innocent, you become an innocent person. Innocent doesn’t mean a fool, innocent is the most intelligent, is the most powerful person. And a person who is a realized soul is also not a compromising person, “All right, if the churches are not working let us have a discotheque here.”

That’s not possible, how can you have discotheque. Like in India in the temples they are selling all these drugs, can you imagine? Everywhere in all the religions they’re doing this compromising with the truth. Because they have no power; if you have the spiritual power you’ll not compromise. See the life of Christ. He took one hanta and started hitting all the people who were sitting outside and selling things outside the temple. It was He who stood against the people who were trying to throw stones at a prostitute and challenging because He knew that everybody was sinful and nobody had right to judge others. It was His power that made Him stand against all of them. I would say anyone of these who talk against Christ like this should stand up and say it. Have they got courage? They have no courage and that’s why I say they are not free people, they’re bound. If you want to attract people this is not the way to attract, through unreal thinking and mental projection. But by giving them their realization, their property, what they have. They don’t want to accept it because they think they’ll be challenged. They all can get realization themselves but they will not come forward.

So don’t believe when they say that there were no miracles of Christ. Without miracles how are we created, ourselves we are miraculous. Think of ourselves; we are made like a computer which doesn’t think, it doesn’t need any programming. When you are seeing Me, you are seeing Me, you don’t have to think about it, isn’t it? What a great compuyer we are made. Can they make even a flower? What are they talking of intellectualizing and the miracles of miracles that are so many, how we are channelized, how we are born, how out of thousands of genes, one gene is used for the eye, one for the nose, how they develop into a particular thing. Just look at the miracle of the whole universe, we don’t want to see that because we are becoming egoistical about it. We think that we can manage God, we can organize Him, we can do whatever we like. In the same realm, when we start seeing the horrible people coming from India and looting you, we succumb to them because they pamper your ego. They say, “All right, you can pay for me,” or, “We can buy him, he’s for sale.”

And now, I was surprised among the elite societies, it’s very funny but it’s true, they discuss, “I think this guru is three pounds less,” or, “That guru you can say five pounds,” it’s a big discussion on. It’s a guru-shopping going on. I’ve been talking against them for the last twelve years openly taking their names and blasting them. About this Scientology, I told them in Brighton two years back and now they’ve found out about this Scientology. So the Brighton radio was very kind to Me and they called Me. I said, “When I told you, you were the ones who blasted Me, then why should you say this against Scientology?” Anybody who takes money from you in the name of God, know that he is a devil. No one should take any money in the name of God. All right you have to have the hall, you pay for the hall not for God. If your climate was all right, we could have done it outside but paying for the hall is different from paying for God. And the way these people have minted money is your naiveness, your stupidity, I should say that you didn’t understand this simple thing that these people are buying lots of aeroplanes and Rolls Royces and you’re paying for it.

Still I must say, English are wiser than many others. Like in America I went and they told Me, “How many Rolls Royces she has?” They said, “She has no Rolls Royce, She doesn’t take any money,” so they said, “We’re not interested.” It’s a pop show going on, how much money you make in this guru business. If somebody is a smart one, if you’ve made a big money, “Oh he’s a smart fellow, he’s made so much money.” Can you imagine how money-oriented they are. You’re not, you’re much better. So keep to your styles and I’m sure British will one day teach all of them a proper thing which is called as a proper balanced spiritual life.

Somehow in this lifetime I have learned English language, I’m not so good but I can speak English and you should not mind if I have made any mistakes in English language. But one thing is there that English is much better than many other foreign languages because I find there is no word for awareness in French, how to translate awareness. There’s no word for conscience, there’s no word for consciousness, there’s only one conscia, whatever you call it. Of course English also I have little problem. Like for spirit, you call the spirit that is dead the spirit, then you call the spirit that you get in the pubs also the spirit and also you call the spirit, that’s the pure thing within yourself, the reflection of God as spirit, and also the Holy Ghost as the Spirit.

But in Sanskrit language, because it deals more, more with the roots it has more words for all these things. But it may not have so many words for the use of the, say, a glass and the tumbler for this kind of a wine and that, that it may not have anything about it, it’s a general thing, what we call as one word for the whole. All pubs are one word and all alcohols and everything is one word. There’s no differentiation at all because they do not know this area but the area they know, for that, they have different words. And that’s why sometimes one has to take to Sanskrit language in a way to understand. But you need not worry because we can do it in English language also very well now, it’s very simple.

Now the happening takes place and then you become empowered and then you should only learn to maneuver it. So the yoga has two meanings, the first one means the union with the Divine, it is sahaja meaning spontaneous because in the modern times there are all kinds of yogas. So it is a spontaneous, living yoga and that’s the only one is the real yoga, the rest is all something like an exercise. And the second part of the yoga means that the deftness to know the art of handling this power. That’s why they said when they got their realization, when they got the blessing of the Holy Spirit they started moving their hands in such a way that people thought that they were mad, but the whole of namaz itself is awakening of the Kundalini, the whole of namaz is. And the way we move our hands, you see, the power moves through our hands. So the movement of our hands gives us the empowering and we know how to handle this power within ourselves so you become your own guru.

Now as I’m here for the first time I would like you to ask Me questions about Sahaja Yoga, about anything but still I would say you need not be aggressive with Me because it’s not good and don’t waste the energy of other people because there are many people who are seekers here I can see very clearly writ large on their faces, they’re real seekers of ages and let them have their seeking. Now if you have any such questions which you want to ask you can ask Me because in a short lecture like this, in one visit what could I do, how much could I tell you?

I must have given at least two thousand lectures in English language and they’re all on the tapes and later on you can get them and listen to them, the nature of the Spirit, what it means to be realized, how we become the citizens of God’s kingdom, what is God’s kingdom within us, where are these chakras placed, everything I’ve told and everything is to be told to you. There are some books also we have written but we don’t give books in the beginning because again, you see, the brain starts thinking about it. You have to be in thoughtless awareness, so there only you grow. So we don’t want you to give some food for thought all the time so that you are all the time on a thinking level but you should grow and that’s why one has to understand that this lecture is not sufficient enough but is just an introduction into Sahaja Yoga. It was suddenly decided that I have to come here to Middlesborough and this gentleman rang Me up and I found him very positive. It was very great, you see, and I think people are little in a puzzle these days because the way everything is attacked. And I think in a way it’s good because that will give them a curiosity to ascend. May God bless you all.

I would like to have some questions from you.

(Warren: Very soon Shri Mataji will give you the experience and you can begin to feel what She’s speaking of.)

I shouldn’t say I will give you because you will get it. It’s like the sun shining saying, “I’m shining,” I mean it has to shine jolly well, that’s its nature, and we have to get the sunshine, jolly well. It just works spontaneously.

(Question: You gave this yoga a particular name, how many types of yoga do you have?)

I don’t know, as many brains there are in this world, but there’s only one yoga, is Sahaja. If you read the Patanjali Yoga from which this so-called yoga has come, has got astangas eight folds, out of which a wee bit is called as yamanyama, in that a wee bit is the exercises. But these exercises are of no use without the Kundalini awakening. It’s written very clearly but nobody reads that big book, you see. Somebody has read only the beginning of it and has started calling it yoga.

Now you have to make the Kundalini start and then you know where the problem is, for example, you have a problem in the stomach and if you are doing the exercise of the neck what’s the use. But the way people do sometimes it frightens Me; they want to take out the whole of their intestines outside, the way they are at it, it’s too much. There’s no need to do all that because that will really give you a heart attack or something like that. It gives Me a terrible fright; yoga doesn’t mean exercise by any chance, it means giving relief to a particular center which is obstructed, and how to do it, we also do exercises whenever it is needed to a particular thing but it’s very simple one, once in a while. It’s not like madness all the time, even people who do yoga I’ve seen, they cannot sit for one minute straight, you see. They just go into all these trantrums, it’s very difficult to understand. You become very normal, decent people.

So the other yogas, I don’t know what they are like. Kundalini yoga, you can call it is the Kundalini Yoga if you want elaborately say it, Kundalini Yoga, it’s Sahaja Yoga or you can call it Yoga itself. But I have called it Sahaja is not the point, it’s a word very ancient, Sahaja, Sahaja. Saha means with, Ja means born, it’s born with you. Like every seed can become a tree, it is born with you, you all can become that tree of life. I could have said yoga but it means nothing. I have seen people who have been taking some drugs and I said, “What are you doing?” They said, “We’re doing drug yoga.” Everything is a yoga these days, you don’t know. Coca Cola yoga, all kinds of yoga. Yes I tell you , human beings are really ingenious the way they manage everything. They know how to mess up everything.

(Question: There are many interpretations of the Bible, how do you know that your interpretation is the correct one?)

Because it can be proved, it can be proved. You see the interpretations that come out of brain will be many, because it can be proved. You see now for example Christ resides on a center called as Agnya chakra which is placed on the optic chiasma which is controlling your pituitary and the pineal bodies, supposing I say it, all right? Now you keep your mind open about it. Now when I raise the Kundalini I find that it is stuck here; this is the window, this is the window of Christ, this is the blood of Christ, symbolic of His blood which protects you. Now this is the window of Christ, now when I say that, this interpretation that when the Kundalini is rising it stops there, I have to take His name, request Him or I have to say Lord’s Prayer. That’s the mantra, that’s the chanting one has to do, then it rises. He sucks in your ego and superego and you can see it clearly happening that here on the fontanelle bone area you get a soft bone and you see the cool breeze coming out of it.

Now you ask a question putting your hands like this, you ask a question, “Is this the cool breeze of the Holy Ghost?” The vibrations start flowing much more. Supposing you ask about somebody who is not a good man the burning may start coming on your fingers. Now supposing you say there is no God, you may get a terrible burning on your hands. So relatively you understand that whenever you ask for something truthful you get lot of vibrations. That means your computer has started working but for anything you find out whether it is true or not you have to work it out and see for yourself. Now when it happens with this if you get cured automatically, if you become a joyous personality, if you get completely transformed and you start curing others and you know all about it, you become knowledgeable about it.

It’s not that you start shaking before someone and then the person gets… , you are quite normal and not only that you cure but you make another person so peaceful and joyful and enlighten that person that that person can himself give realization. You can see the Kundalini, the one that is in the triangular bone just like a heart pulsating in some people, not all, if there’s an obstruction in the higher chakra then you see it actually like that. We have got pictures of that. So whatever interpretation you give mentally is not true, you must prove it. So you have to accept it as a hypothesis. As in any science you give an hypothesis first and then try to prove it. If you have proved it then you have to accept it otherwise you are dishonest. If you’re honest, really if you’re honest you have to accept it, isn’t it? That’s what My husband told Me that, “I cannot be anymore dishonest about it, I have to accept it, that’s the truth.”

All right, now what’s the other question?

(Warren: She’s heard and read that if you awaken Kundalini before it’s ready it can be dangerous.)

Yes, must be, because the people who raise have no authority to do it; they don’t know how to do it. A person who is not a doctor if he tries to operate, what will happen? It’s dangerous. So far so many people their Kundalini has been awakened. I haven’t seen any dangerous things happening to anyone, on the contrary everybody has gained by it. The reason is you should know how to do it, you should be an authority to do it. Supposing you put one seed in the steel box, will it grow? No, you have to put it in the Mother Earth, she has the capacity to do it. In the same way the one who knows can do it, has to be an authority on it, and it is your Mother, She is your Mother. Everyone has an individual mother waiting to give that self-realization, how can She be unkind to you? Of course, in the beginning little heat is thrown out of your body because you’re heated up. It’s all right, doesn’t matter, it’s not so much and sometimes you do feel little shaking if you have been to a wrong type of a guru or something or if you are suffering from nervous trouble there’s a little shaking that’s all. I have not seen anything wrong happening but like one gentleman came and sat on the ground. I said, “Why are you sitting on the ground like that with your feet towards me?” He said, “You know Mother, my Kundalini has been awakened and I’m jumping like a frog.” I said, “Why are you jumping like a frog?” He said, “My guru has said it and he wrote it down on a book that you jump like a frog.” I said, “Now are you going to become a frog or an earthworm?” Use your brains, all right? Nothing to be afraid of. I don’t think I look that frightful, do I?

(Warren: If there are no more questions we’ll have the experience.)

No, one more, yes let’s have it.

(Warren: First of all she says that she agrees with everything that You’ve said, but she’s concerned about one thing, as she herself is a spiritualist medium, she is aware of the dangers and she wonders whether You are able to distinguish between the dangers and the blessings.)

Absolutely, that’s what it is, that you should know what are the dangers. I’ve already told you, moving to the left and the right and the spiritualists are moving to the left. They’re using spirits and it’s very dangerous. You don’t know how to protect yourself, unless and until you get your realization you will not even know how spiritualism is wrong; absolutely it is most dangerous.

There is no danger in Kundalini, but in spiritualism it’s most dangerous, whether you may be all right for the short time but they are spirits, you must know and spirits are the most dangerous things. Don’t go near them. It’s very surprising that in the West, people have no idea about spirits and the way they go headlong into it, it sometimes really upsets Me. In India people know about it, they call it Bhootavidya, Pretavidya, Smeshanavidya, means the knowledge about the dead, we can say, the dead knowledge and they just don’t want to go near it.

The other day we had a visitor and I took her to a church and she was holding her sari, going like this. I said, “What’s the problem?” She said, “All dead are here, how can we cross over them?” She couldn’t understand and we have them in the churches where children go. It’s very dangerous. Only the realized people in India are buried, only realized souls are buried, not the people who are not realized. They’re not to be buried; they’re to be burned so that their body gets purified and again they come on this earth for their realization. And the dead in the church! It’s so dangerous, playing with spiritualists, nobody will do. Here I find housewives, and all people responsible getting into this mess of spiritualism.

It’s all absolutely against Sahaja Yoga. We have nothing to do with them. On the contrary they suffer a lot. Spiritualists suffer a lot later on in life. Not only but seven generations of their family can suffer.

We had a doctor here who came and I was surprised that he being a doctor was suffering from this kind of a disease. He was a Russian doctor and I asked him, “How did you get into it?” So he told me his mother, his grandmother had a hobby to take him to the cemetery. From his childhood he used to go to the cemetery. We could not locate the problem anywhere, he was very depressed and he used to get into problems and he had to give up his jobs. Now then we met another Indian doctor who was here and he had the same type of trouble, he’d given up his job and his wife didn’t know what to do and his children were also suffering. So I asked him a question, “Why, why you are like this? What did you do with your studies?” And he was quite normal. He said, “I led a very normal life.” But his grandfather used to do black magic, in the sense we call it, all this is black magic. All spiritualism is black magic, because it has to deal with the dead. And this boy was suffering, his children were suffering. Now we have one person from Guyana, another one from Guyana, he too, his father used to do this kind of a thing and he is suffering, he’s still suffering. He’s come to Sahaja Yoga and he’s still… but he can see now and he knows how to protect.

So those who deal with dead are going to suffer, take it from me, whatever you may do, because they’re just like human beings and sometimes slyer people than we are. We should have nothing to do with the dead. Let them take their birth again, let them take their realization.

All anorexia, all these diseases come out of that. So many diseases I’ve told you, cancer is caused by the dead. Be careful on that point and I don’t understand all educated people here, so much developed, how can you take…, Indians won’t take to it. They won’t go near it; they understand.

Tantrikas and all that are prevalent only in very poor countries like…, say, it’s a vicious circle, it brings poverty also. As soon as there is a dead in a family or a dead work done, the money disappears. The reason is the goddess of Lakshmi as we call them, she just disappears, she doesn’t like that black thing at all. And so the countries where we have, I mean, in our country the provinces which are poor, the whole country is not poor, they’re doing all black magic. In Kerala, it’s very poor country, I went there, they bury their dead in the house. It is all that. You must keep them out, because the goddess of wealth doesn’t like it.

All this knowledge was not known to you but that doesn’t mean that you should go headlong into these things, it’s very, very dangerous. Never go near the dead; whatever it is the planet said, this, that, it’s all nonsensical. There’s no need to do that. But people are really…, I don’t understand, they’re daredevils.

Like from America three big scientists came to see me, in India I’m very well-known. So they came to see me and said that, “Mother, teach us how to fly in the air.” I said, “Why do you want to fly in the air? What is the need?” “No, we want to leave our body and go to the moon.” I said, “You are already doing it with your body, why do you want to do it?” So they told me that, “Parapsychology is practised now in Russia and we want to do the same.” I said, “It will affect them.” You see the way their presidents are killed, this is all parapsychology. I told them, “Don’t go near them.” They said, “No Mother, we want to do it.” I said, “But then you will be slaves of these dead, would you like to do that?” Still they said, “Yes we want to do it.” I said, “I have nothing to do but who has told you about this?” They said, “There is one fellow, Patanjali, who is a reporter.” I said, “Look at this Patanjali, he was suffering from this trouble, that his body used to be left behind and he would fly out and do…” And he came and his wife came and begged of me that they should be rid of this trouble and he’s telling them that am I going to put the trouble into them?

All this parapsychology business, when I went first to America I must tell you, this experience is very good. I told them against parapsychology openly because they, I didn’t know what they were doing in parapsychology, first of all, and they are the people who invited me in their hall. I blasted them and I said, “Don’t do all this nonsense, it will all destroy you, just don’t go near them.”

Second time when I went to America, only last year, I was giving on the television, I was on the television and before the television they had told that Mataji Nirmala Devi is going to come. And somebody telephoned from San Diego saying that, “Mother had come last time and she told us about parapsychology and she told us about the gurus, she warned us but we never listened to her and now we are destroyed people. Can she save us?” I said. “Yes, but still it’s difficult now, you should not have gone to that.”

And the whole of that parapsychology thing is finished now. The building caught fire, the gentleman went to Australia, he got a funny temperament, he ended up in a lunatic asylum. The wife, she became paralytic, she ended up in a lunatic asylum. Brezhnev and all these people, they all suffered from this. You can see their faces, all like this, possessed.

Don’t go near the spiritualists; don’t do that, it’s very dangerous, for you, for the progeny, for everyone. I must warn you; it’s the most dangerous thing and should not do that. Even if you don’t like it I have to tell you. I don’t want to tell you something that’s not true. You depend on yourself, on your own Spirit, on your own being. Why to depend on somebody who’s dead, let them be alone.

But when they suffer, they come to me, I’ve seen it, when they suffer then they’ll come. Then it’s so difficult, you see, afterwards to give them realization, it’s so difficult, they’ve already harmed themselves. He (Warren) also had gone to someone like that, but his wife we lost because she was going too much of it; we’ve lost her, she’s…, I don’t know, she may come back, but I mean, she’s very much attacked, very much attacked. And she used to become like a furious personality and all sorts of things used to happen to her and I hope she comes back but it’s very difficult, you know, to pull them back out of the clutches of that, because they don’t know what they’re are doing, what they’re talking, how they’re behaving.

A sickness of the worst type. Even AIDS is a sickness from the same. Most of the terminal diseases come from them. It’s very dangerous, don’t go near them. Christ has already told you; he’s the one who told so plainly, he took them out and put them in the pigs and pigs went into the sea. You have heard of that or not; so why do you want to bring them back? Put them in the pigs. If they don’t want to reside in the area where they are suppose to reside, let them go to pigs. They’ve no business…, they’re busybodies, you know.

There’re also one Dr. Lang in here. I must tell you about him, this Dr. Lang, late Dr. Lang, dead. And he capsized a man in Vietnam who was a soldier who was under a shock and this soldier came down to London to see his son and he said, “I’m Dr. Lang.” The son was shocked, he said, “Who? How are you… my father is dead.” He said, “No, your father has possessed me, and he has told me that I must start my clinic here and there are many doctors who want to help me and I’m going to start this clinic.” So the son listened to it and he said, “How am I to believe that you are my father?” Then he told him some secrets which were between the two, and told about the house where he had put some money and all that.

And the son was surprised and he started the clinic; and that’s how the International Curative Centre of Late Dr. Lang started in London. How I came to know about it, that in 1974 I met a lady, she was shaking all the time like this. I said, “What’s this?” She said, “Mother, I don’t know but I was cured by Dr. Lang, late Dr. Lang.” Then she told me the story. But they were honest to tell about this whole thing what had happened but he did not enter into the body of the boy, his son, entered into somebody else who was a very healthy man. And she told me that, “When I wrote to them I am suffering from these troubles, stomach trouble, they told me that you will have the experience at such and such exact this time.” That shows it’s not living because you cannot give time to something that is living. You cannot say exactly what time a flower is going to become the fruit, can you? And this thing entered into her body, she started shaking, shaking, and her stomach was all right.

For about two years she was all right, afterwards the whole body started shaking, she became like a mad woman. She used to run out of the house and people would say that, “This woman is going to kill herself.” Once she jumped from a very high ceiling just to kill herself but somehow she was saved, and they brought her to me and she told me the story of late Dr. Lang. So I have to tell you, though they cure you for a while, don’t go near them, better you cure yourself and know all about it. You be the master of yourself.

It’s nice she brought out the point because otherwise… it’s all Sahaj, it’s spontaneous, so that I could tell you about it; it’s quite possible that people could take to that.

Now should we have the experience now, all of us?

H.H. Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi