Faith Has To Be Based On Experience

Leicester Quaker Meeting House, Leicester (England)

1984-08-02 Faith Has To Be Based On Experience, Leicester, England, DP-RAW, 126' Chapters: Introduction by Yogi, Talk, Q&A, Self-Realization, WorkshopDownload subtitles: EN (1)View subtitles:
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Public Program. Leicester (England), 2 August 1984.

I bow to all the seekers of truth.
You have just now heard that within us lies the power of our ascent, ascent to the Divine. Now maybe there are some people who can say “How? How do You say that? What’s Your authority?”
Naturally, one can ask such a question. But as a scientist we have to keep our minds open to any knowledge. I say this is the knowledge of the roots. Why? Whatever we have known so far is the knowledge of the tree. It sounds fantastic sometimes to people how can the awakening of the Kundalini or the Holy Ghost as described in the Bible can bring forth this tremendous change; this transformation and all the benefits of physical, mental, emotional and material being within us. It’s impossible to believe because it’s too fantastic. But we don’t realize that how fantastically we are made by God Almighty.
We take Him so much for granted. When we make a computer in this world we feel we have done a great job. But do you know you yourself you are a computer which knows without thinking. I see you and I know I see you. I don’t have to go back to some sort of a programming to find out what am I seeing; is also spontaneous and living. All the living things are created by the living God and then we know that we have come to this stage of human awareness; from here if we have to ascend, there must be some method, mechanism within us.
Now some may say that why should we seek. There’s no why about it. Because you see the confusion all along, you see what’s happening to people. There are so many thought waves coming up like ‘we must look after our health’, ‘we must look after our mind’. There are so many sorts of theologies and also many intellectual expositions and manifestations; that one gets absolutely confounded and can’t understand where are we. Naturally in this confusion one feels very frustrated and wants to find out what are we here for? Any intelligent sincere person, honest person thinks that way. ‘Why am I here?’ Of course for the frivolous, they can manage for some time. They can continue for one or two lives till they become little bit concerned but normally any intelligent person would think that I have been made a human being for what? What is the purpose of my being a human being from the animal stage? Then people say that you are a human being now you forget about your creator; you forget about anything like that and you think you are the creator. You just believe that you are the one who has to rule the whole world. That’s how we create a barrier between ourselves and the truth. The truth exists and God exists whether we believe in it or not. Actually blind faith is not going to take us to God. The faith has to be based on experience which is called as ‘shraddha’. It has to be based on experience of the truth. Supposing, I have not been to this room; I have not seen it; I don’t know what it is and I started describing it and if you believe Me, then I would say it’s just a brain wash and it has been nothing but a talk and talk and talk about God throughout. The reason was the human beings were not ready at that time I should say to get to their Realization. We had few people very few in the last say sixth to the modern times.
I asked a Zen master, “How many Realized souls you had? ‘Kashyapas’”
And he said, “We had altogether only twenty four ‘Kashyapas’ from the sixth Century to the thirteenth Century and we had none.”
So I said, “Then what are you doing there? You are a Zen Master and you are not a realized soul.”
So he said, “I am doing my job.”
A priest, I must say John Clover is also a priest; and a priest very well known personality and I asked him, “What do you mean by Holy Ghost?”
So he says, “I am agnostic.”
I said, “Then, what are you doing in the church?”
So he says “I am doing my job.”
I was surprised! What sort of a job you can do when you do not know what you are talking? You are professing something about which you yourself are not sure. You yourself you are not a free soul and you are talking about freedom of the soul; is something like a advertising department.
So people start wondering, is there anything like God? And no wonder that so many have discarded as nothing. But the time has come now to prove the existence of God. The time has now come to prove all the miracles of the scriptures. At this time only there’s a controversy should come up that there were no miracles and the time has come to prove that. Isn’t it surprising that spontaneously at this time only all these intellectuals are coming out with their novel ideas? And that this is the time we can prove it that there is God. We can prove it that there is Kundalini, the Holy Ghost and we can prove it that there is Spirit and that a human being can ascend. I think the background is so dark that the light will show better and that has to happen. In these modern times, I find if you talk to anybody about God, they will laugh at you. Is not regarded fashionable to talk about God but despite of all that in the modern times we have the maximum numbers of seekers. We never had so many seekers at any time.
Think of Christ, he had those twelve disciples who did not believe in Him till they saw His resurrection. I mean they did not believe in Him fully, I mean to say. Look at Buddha or look at anyone of these people. Mohammad Saab, how they tortured his life? And they all have talked about this time as the resurrection time because before the doomsday the resurrection has to come. But the people who are in-charge of the, there are people who have taken their charge in this world. Will not believe that there can be redemption, that there could be resurrection because it’s a money making proposition.
I met a Mayor today in the morning of another place and he told Me, he asked Me actually “Why people become so fanatic about religion?”
I said, “Because it is a money making proposition everywhere”.
Any money making proposition has to be fanatic because you have to be successful money wise and also compromising. It’s an enterprise and God doesn’t understand money, that’s the worst part of it. He doesn’t know what money is. He does all that is living what human beings do is nothing but they convert dead to another dead. Now for example some tree is dead, we make a bench out of it; from dead to dead. But can we transform these flowers into fruits? We do not. And the one who does billions and billions of these at the time, at the right time, proper seasons, who must be that? Whatever we have done so far is the dead work. But the work of God is the living work and the living work of God is evident in our own existence that we have become human beings from amoeba stage and that if higher ascent has to take place it has to take place through some spontaneous happening meaning living happening not by some artificial things like in the Hindu religion we have a ceremony called as ‘munja’ where the, at eight years of age they say the child has now become a Brahmin, means he has known the all pervading power of Brahma, of Holy Ghost, certified. As we have in Christian religion also in the churches they’ll put their hand and your head and say now you have become Christian, Baptized. How Sir? Just an exercise and we believe in it. We accept the situation and we believe that we are that. Mohammad Saab has said, “You have to become the Pir.”
There’s no religion which has not said that human awareness is for just balancing yourself. That’s the religion is. It’s like trial and error and trial and error; that you make mistakes improve yourself, make mistakes improve yourself. You move from one extreme to another as you see here to the left or to the right and then you come to the center and the central path of ascent is within us and which we achieve through our moderation and not through our extremes and those who go to extremes and become fanatic are people who are not religious by any chance because religion must give you a balance. That’s the first thing one must attain, attain through religion. Now within us lies the power of our ascent and the path of our ascent and on this path we have got different centers which represent something very subtle within us. As I told you this is the knowledge of the roots.
Supposing a tree is sick we see the leaves are falling. So we take one leaf. First of all once if we pluck it out it is already finished. But even on the tree we try to inject something to the leaf, does it reach the whole of the tree? It does not. If you have to cure that tree, you have to go to the roots. In the same way within ourselves these centers are placed and the root has to be awakened so that it passes through all these centers, enlightens all these centers and give you the ultimate that we call as the true Baptism or Self Realization or in Sanskrit knowledge they say ‘Atma Sakshathkar’.
Now where does the Spirit reside? The Spirit resides in our heart. Now this is a hypothesis for you. You need not accept. But keep your mind open for it. But the seat of God almighty is on top of your head though the reflection of that as the Spirit is in the heart. When this Kundalini which is called as the Root also or is called as the Holy Ghost, which is the reflection of the Holy Ghost, which is the power of God, which is the Primodial Mother, which is your individual Mother rises and when it touches that point the Spirit in your heart starts emitting these cool vibrations. First you feel it here coming out of your head, the Cool Breeze. This happens. This is not artificial you can even see in many people the pulsation of the Kundalini very clearly just like a heart or in that bone, which is just a bone; pulsates like a heart, when there is an obstruction in the higher centers.
Now the subtle side of these centers are that the first center is related to our innocence. Have we bothered to find out how are we innocent in our childhood? What is that creates innocence within us? Then the second center that we have is the center of Swadishthana which deals with the creativity that we have. Now God has made human beings in his image. He has the same centers within Him which He reflects within us. So with this center He has created all this universe. This is for the creativity.

The third center within us, which is the navel center, which looks after the solar plexus on the gross, is called as the Nabhi Chakra meaning the naval center and is responsible for giving us the seeking. We should know why do we seek. Why do we seek food to begin with? We feel hungry, but how do we know that we are hungry and that we want food? Even a child knows that, even an animal knows that; how? This is the center tells us that now you are hungry better go and have some food. And this is the center tells us now you better seek some money, maybe some power, maybe all the human things that we seek and waste our life quite a lot in that. After that when you are affluent when you have solved all these mundane things like no more we are living in the jungles like animals. Then we start thinking that there must be something beyond because I have got everything now but I haven’t got joy. I don’t feel joyous. I am not satisfied, what is that? When this seeking starts then you are a special category of seekers for which William Blake* has clearly written very, very clearly two hundred years back he said that men of God will become prophets and they will have powers to make others prophets and that is today’s Sahaja Yoga. This seeking is a special category of people who we find now a days all over the world. That’s why I said it at the very outset that you do not find so many seekers, in the history of spirituality so many seekers. But today there are thousands and thousands; I would say millions and millions of seekers. But what happens to them? Again they get lost. Some start getting lost in the intellectual understanding of God, finished. How can you understand God with this limited brain? He’s unlimited. You have to go beyond this mind to understand. What can we understand of that God who does all these marvelous things of living processes which we cannot do even a wee bit with this brain of ours? So some are lost in the books and some are lost in the organized religions, finished.
Sunday morning have a nice dress, go to the church, I have done my work as far as God is concerned. Or I would say for a Hindu is to go to the temple, take some money give it to the Brahmin there, done. So they are also lost in it. Then there are lots of markets now a days. We have ‘spiritualists’ and we have ‘charismatics’ and we have got ‘seventh day adventist’ and ‘born again’; all sorts. They are only same people with different brands. There’s no difference between one human being and another, even if you put any brand on our head we are just the same. There is no difference at all. They may profess something, but whatever you profess is not within you. So it is not what you profess is important, but what you become. Becoming is the point. What you become on your central nervous system. That is the evolutionary impact. When we evolve from animal to human state it is expressed on our central nervous system. For example if you have to take a dog through a dirty lane, he has no objection, he just walks through. But we cannot go. Now you bring a dog here in a good garden, he’s quite happy, he doesn’t know whether it is a beautiful garden of flowers or it’s a dirty lane. But for a human being this awareness is there and he can feel it. Now to human beings if you talk of sin this that, they don’t understand. They’ll say, “What’s wrong? What’s wrong?” “If I kill somebody what’s wrong?” “If I do like this what’s wrong?” Because the awareness is at that level. But Christ, would He do such a thing? Buddha, would He do such a thing? Khalil Gibran, would he do such a thing? William Blake? No, why? Because they are above us and their sense and sensitivity has developed in such a manner that they are the people who know what is right and what is wrong.
So we live in a relative world. We must accept this. We have no sense of absolute and even if we have it is told to us from our fathers, forefathers or in the church or in the temple somewhere; is all conditioning. We do not know for definite whether it is right or wrong because we haven’t got that awareness.

So what has to happen to you is that you have to become collectively conscious that means you can feel your own centers on your finger tips. That is Self-Realization, you know your Self and you should feel the centers of other people on your finger tips and so that you know what is wrong with another person or what is wrong with you. But you are so much separated from yourself like it becomes your cloth, the whole body, the ego, the superego that you know it is wrong and you clear it out, if you know the technique. This is the another meaning of the word Yoga.
The first meaning is that Yoga is the union with the Divine; also Yoga means to be deft in the art of God’s love, in the technique of Divine laws; this is the another meaning. Yoga doesn’t mean standing on your head. That’s just a misnomer, because some people have got very little knowledge about things and they start saying this is Yoga. But I mean Patanjali who has talked about it thousands of years back has described nothing but Sahaja Yoga; is the spontaneous union, spontaneous union with the Divine. That’s what he has described out and out but who reads that big book. Yoga you can buy in three pages you see. Stand on your head; bend your feet, but why? We too have to do some exercises in Sahaja Yoga but the Kundalini has to rise and tell us where it is obstructed accordingly we do the exercise. Supposing you have a trouble on your head and you do the stomach exercises, the stomach will be spoilt for nothing at all. As it is you have a headache plus the stomach is also spoilt. So it is a big science one has to understand. But it is so simple as a child. Now this child is a realized soul he knows because you become the absolute. Now if you want to know whether there is God or not you just put your hands like this and ask the question, “Mother is there God?” When you ask the question you’ll get tremendous Cool Breeze flowing.
Is like a computer, an absolute computer. Now you ask a question, “Was Christ the son of God?” You get tremendous; but ask about Rasputin “Was he a saint?” I don’t want to ask because it might burn My hand. That’s how you know the absolute. Afterwards you don’t need also to use the hands, just without that you know and that is what the state one has to achieve, that is the final break-through we have to achieve because this modern times as they say, these are the times that are described as the resurrection time, the judgment time and this is the time that people have to judge themselves. Your own Spirit will judge you. Nobody is going to put you on a weighing machine to see what have you got. Your own centers will be judged by you yourself. You become your own master, your own Guru and you judge yourself and correct it. You judge others and correct it. But you don’t tell them, you speak in a strange language as the disciples of Christ spoke. You talk in the language of centers. Like you ask somebody, “What’s the matter with this person?” So he’ll say, “His left Vishuddhi is catching.” Means he feels guilty. If you feel guilty your left Vishuddhi catches.
We went to Nottingham today and there was a taxi fellow who came in. We sat in the car and I knew he was a realized soul. And he started talking to Me. He also took to Me easily and he confessed to Me, “Mother I am a healer.” I knew he was a, everybody knew that he was a realized soul. He did not know much about it because he’s not a Sahaja Yogi to know all the deftness of it. But he knew that he was something different and a very gentle and a sweet personality he had.
And while talking I asked him, “What’s the matter with you? Why do you feel so guilty?”
He said, “I don’t know but I feel like a criminal.”
I said, “Why?”
“Because everybody thinks I am queer.”
I said, “In a lunatic asylum if a saint man goes everybody thinks that he is insane. So you must not feel that way, you should have all full confidence in yourself.”
But he was so surprised that I could tell all these things about him. I said, “Anybody would say because we know what you feel on your finger tips. It’s nothing great that we are doing.”
Because supposing, dog cannot talk to us, but supposing we tell the dog that this is music, Indian music. He will ask, “How do you know it is Indian music?”

Because we know, we can hear. You can’t hear; you cannot differentiate. But we don’t take such pride in saying that we know this color or we know that thing and we know what is art, what is not. We think it is our own right to know and we know it.

In the same way once you get your Realization you just know it because you become. So becoming is the main thing that you become a realized soul, a saint, a sage, a seer, but as a result of this awakening because it passes through various centers, into various layers, first thing that happens to you, first thing I must say, that you get your physical body cured. That’s how Sahaja Yoga cures cancer. What is so great about it? It does and it’s only this Sahaja Yoga that is going to cure cancer.
Otherwise you’ll take chemotherapy, loose your hair, then they’ll cut your throat and cut your nose and you’ll end up by parts, you see and when one will die it won’t be in one piece. But in Sahaja Yoga the Kundalini rises and she supplies the necessary vital forces to all these centers and you get cured. Practically everything that is to be repaired can be repaired if the stage is not very much advanced. If the stage is very much advanced then the Divine takes a decision that let this body die and come back again in a fresher way. Then it allows it to die. But mostly if it is in a repairing stage without taking any medicine, without going to any doctor, without anything you can cure yourself. It’s not difficult.
It transforms your personality in the sense that your priorities change completely. I don’t have to tell you ‘don’t do this’. That I will not say because then half of you may run away. But it will happen in such a manner that you yourself won’t do that. I don’t have to tell you at all. Because firstly if you try to do it you will lose your vibrations you feel unhappy. You’ll lose your joy and peace and maybe your body may react and that it may vomit out the thing or it may make you very painful so that you just don’t do it. You become righteousness, you become virtuous and you enjoy your virtues. You don’t force your virtues on others you just say that one day he should get Realization.

The concern is as if a part of your body is sick and you want to soothe it and put it right. No obligation, nothing. If somebody is drowning himself actually part of you is getting drowned that’s why you jump into it. But here actually you feel the another person and if you know how to cure that, then there’s no obligation at all because there is a part and parcel of your being. Supposing this finger is paining and if I rub it, am I obliging myself? But it is so spontaneous, it is so automatic that the idea also doesn’t come into your head that you have obliged him. It’s so simple. This is the power of God’s love. We have never used that before because we were not capable of doing that. All these wars and all these problems of the world are because we are using the power of hatred.

We talk of peace but how will you make peace on this earth when the people are so disturbed?
The source of peace is the Spirit and if the whole world or a part of it, and a very wee part of it, accepts that they should have their Spirit manifesting and they establish themselves, you’ll see all these problems will vanish into thin air. As it is in your private life they vanish out. Everything becomes smooth joyous happy. The relationships become very pure and you really enjoy human beings for the first time. Otherwise it is just, we’ll say: “Oh we are brothers, brothers, brothers. We are sisters, we are this that.” When it comes to selfishness everything drops out, because it’s just a mental projection. Even countries will say: “We are all friends, we are going to help.” But when it comes to something important, they drop out. But this is no mental projection, is reality. Become that and that should happen to many, many people. By that a kind of a catalysism will take place and the whole world has to be changed as promised.

Those days are ahead, is working out very well, I have worked in this England for ten years. In India hardly two years, but thousands and thousands in the villages are now Sahaja Yogis. They have given up all their bad habits. They have become masters of themselves. Even, I would say in England we have quite a lot of Sahaja Yogis, but still is a very important place is England because it plays a very important role in spirituality because it is the heart of the universe and the heart has to pump out the truth. It’s pumping out all kind of nonsense on the television.
Today on the television they gave Me hardly thirty seconds first and then three minutes. What do I do in three minutes? But for a joker or a clown or for absolutely an useless person there will be hours together. This is the problem that we have to face, but I am sure when the chaos will be seen clearly people will ask for the answer. And when they seek that they will receive what they are seeking. That is a promise and the promise has to be fulfilled. All that is promised in the scriptures has to be fulfilled.
May God bless you all.

Now if you have any problems please ask me. Today I had a very, very hectic day. The whole day I have been moving from places to places and somehow you have been so kind to come here and I am sure we’ll get the experience tonight. But in any case if you have any questions please ask. Is important.
From the seekers: May I ask a question Mataji?
Shri Mataji: Yes please.
From the seekers: Is it possible to awaken Kundalini without a spring guidance like You because You are not available to us so only by reading books?
Shri Mataji: Yes it is possible. Only
Sahaja Yogi: ‘Only by reading books’ she said
Shri Mataji: By reading books. No, no, no not at all. Kabir Das has said “Padhi, padhi pandita murakha bhayei”. That by reading too much even the learned have become stupid.
Seeker: So how could we have Divine guidance like You?
Shri Mataji: What you have to do first of all is to know that it’s a living process and for any living process you don’t need mental understanding. Just I have talked to you because after all you are very intelligent people. But supposing we want to sprout a seed what do we do? We put it in the Mother Earth and it sprouts. Do we give it a lecture before hand? All right do we do anything? It is built-in in the seed as well as in the Mother Earth the capacity to do it. So of course you have to have somebody who has the capacity. Satguru is the real Guru. But these days they are all in the market; all making money. First thing is no money can be paid for sprouting of the seed; first principle. Ninety nine point nine percent [99.9%] will drop out on that point and is said that ‘Sahib Milaye’. The one who makes you meet the Divine is the Guru. The one who talks and gives lecture is not the Guru. But these days there are some very great Gurus but they are hiding themselves in the Himalayas and I sent one of them with great request to America that please go and do some work in America I won’t be able to go. He stayed in New York for three days and ran back into Himalayas. He said, “The people are at a very lower level you see, they just talk of dollar.” He ran away. So they don’t want to deal just now perhaps maybe after sometime if they see that the area is all right, they may come down. But there are many great saints all over the world. But sort of they have receded themselves. First you all become saints and they will all come to join.
Seeker: To become saint is very difficult.
Shri Mataji: Who told you that?
Seeker: Afreed
Shri Mataji: It is the easiest thing. Living process is the easiest. But we are so difficult we don’t want to eat like this we want to go round and eat, then say…It is the simplest thing. ‘Sahaja Samadhi Lago’, Sahaja you get it. Is said by everyone who said it is difficult? Who has said it tell me? No one. ‘Ek hi akshar premaka pade so pandita ho’.
Who has said it? Did Christ say so? Did Buddha say so? Nobody said. But they could not do it because people were difficult. So they said all right go ahead, carry on. Krishna at the very outset of Gita he said that you find yourself. You become a ‘Sthita pragnya’. You become a realized soul, at the very outset.
But Arjuna says, “But how You are telling me to go on war and here You are telling me to become ‘saakshi’, the witness?”
Krishna was a Father. He said, ‘This gentleman won’t understand in a straight way.’ Because Krishna is a special incarnation of diplomacy, he understand how human beings are, like a Father you see. He won’t tell straight forward. He will say ‘all right you want to do it go ahead.’ You want to jump in the sea go ahead. So He said, “All right,” it’s very interesting we don’t understand Gita also without Realization. Like a father who comes out of his house and sees his son trying to drive the cart.
So he says, “All right you want to drive the cart please put the horse before the cart.”
But the son says, “No I can put the horse behind and drive the cart.”
He said, “All right do it no harm. Only put your attention there.”
So he says that, “All right you do all your work, but put it at the Lotus Feet of the God.”
You cannot do it, is an absurd condition. You cannot do it; absurd condition. But when you get your Realization you don’t say “I do it”. You say, “It’s going”, “it’s coming”, “it’s working”, “it’s happening”. You become a third person; ‘akarm’. The second he said about ‘bhakti’ is the devotion. He said ‘pushpam; all the flowers and fruits and all these you give Me, I take them’ but where did He play? On the word ‘ananya’ means you have to do the devotion when you are not the other ‘ananya’. Now when are you like that? When you are one within and also is logical that unless and until you are connected within what sort of a bhakti [devotion] you are doing here? You must be connected. Only ‘bhakti’ you can do is to say that “Connect me”. But otherwise if you are not connected, if the telephone is not connected what are you telephoning? Is as simple as that, is very logical.
So the whole ‘Karma Yoga’ and ‘Bhakti Yoga’ is nothing but that you get your Self-Realization first. Now this is the problem with human beings that they want to live on words, but how long?
Nothing is difficult. So far I have not seen it is a difficult thing to do. It has worked out.
Any other question please?

Seeker: At what time would you suggest [Inaudible]… to come to get Self Realization?
Shri Mataji: Is of no consequence.
Seeker: Is of no consequence?
Shri Mataji: No consequence.
This is very subtle, above everything else, makes no difference. But, later on I find – because here we are problematic people and the Kundalini comes down to help you in different places – and I find that sometimes the people how they are made at their birth, by astrology, behave in different manners. But still, the sign and all these things that are so gross do not bind you. You just throw them away and get out of it. So it’s nothing important.
Seeker: [Question inaudible]
Shri Mataji: No, you’ll go beyond all stars, beyond all science and things. It is of help in a way. For example they cast My horoscope, in India, and they discovered something about Me and which is something very fantastic I should say. It has something.
For example, discovering this, [technologie of the mic] you may think: “What is it? Discovering this, what was the use if the Kundalini has nothing to do , [with] it?”
But today only on the radio, I could give Realization to many people. On the television you can give Realization to people. So this is also useful. Everything is achieved for Self-Realization. Science has achieved everything for Self-Realization. It is at the service of God and whatever is not, is all destructive. Even I would say atom bomb is important otherwise people would never have thought of God.

Seeker: Yes. Hum, on to religion, Catholics, why is it that they make such a do of the Pope? He’s only flesh and blood.
Shri Mataji: What do they do?
Sahaja Yogi: Why do Christians and Catholicism particularly make such a thing of the Pope? He’s only flesh and blood.
Shri Mataji: You’d better go and ask them.
About this Pope John, I went with My Husband to Krakow [before 1978] and being a VIP or something, they asked Me, “What would You like to see?”
I said, “I would like to see some good Church.”
So they took Me to Krakow where this fellow was the Cardinal and they held some sort of a mass. I was sitting there and then I shook hands with him and had tea with him and I rose his Kundalini. It came and went back in the same shot.
But sometimes, when he is talking sense, the Kundalini is up there. (Shri Mataji puts Her hand above Sahasrara.) You see it come up and goes down. Still he’s not established himself, the same fellow who became the Pope.
But why they make out of it is this: because Mr. Paul who is in the Bible, I don’t know why he’s there, has done all this. Now first you must ask Me a question ‘Why Mother Mr. Paul is there in the Bible?’ Can you explain to Me that?
He never saw Christ; he had nothing to do with Christ. Now I am asking you a simple question you see, from God’s side. Somebody must ask from God’s side also sometimes some questions. [Laughter]
All right now this gentleman was just torturing Christians, he becomes epileptic, he sees some cross as he says. Whatever it is, sees something so what? And then he is in the Bible. How come? Now he is not a free soul. If you accept Paul, this I had said long time back, you will have to give up Christ and that’s what is happening today. All right?
And even Protestants because I took My birth in Protestants, among Protestants. I know them. I know about all of them – Christians and Hindus and Muslims and every one, are all funny fanatics, but the Protestants are very sophisticated fanatics. It’s impossible to talk to them, specially in India. Oh baba! They are so sophisticated, they’ve done all the science of the Bible. They’ve made science out of Bible. Bible is so great how can you put it in the science? Science is a wee part of it.
You agree there with Me? So now first let us accept we are first and foremost human beings and we have to become super human beings as Realized souls, whether you are Christian, Catholics, Hindus, Muslims anything. It should be such, how can it be different? Does God know that you went to a Anglican Church or to another Church? Does he, will he know? Accha tell Me, do you think he will know all these things? Do you think? Somebody must be keeping a record, do you think so? I mean, is it not ridiculous the way we fight about these things? Can He keep record of all these things?
And it’s not only about Christians, it’s same in Hindus. Hindus are very fanatics, Sikhs are fanatics, Muslims are fanatics; all blind people are there. But they are good people you know? They believe in it. They are innocent; they believe that what they believe into is the truth. They have to just know that the truth is universal and is for everyone. You cannot claim anyone as your own. Actually by that, you’ve killed the truth. Like a tree has many flowers, living flowers you pluck some of them saying this; this is mine, this is mine and the flower dies. And that ugly flower becomes your fanatical religion. It’s not a living flower.
In Sahaja Yoga we know that all Prophets were right, what They said were right; we believe in Them. We use Them on these different centers and all the incarnations we use, but as far as the outside religions are concerned, we think they need some cleansing and light. Then everything will be all right.

You are Catholic? I mean you’re educated. I am sorry now you are no. But whether the education was in Catholic Church?
Seeker: No.
If you want to hear about Christians, go and ask Muslims. If you want to hear about Muslims, go and ask Hindus. If you want to hear about Hindus, go and ask Buddhist. You’ll get the full picture about them. You see we can see what others are, we don’t see what we are. True.

Sahaja Yogi: Any other question? Mother’s going to give you the experience tonight, so why don’t we do it now? Just lift your shoes off so that your feet…
Shri Mataji: You’d better take out your shoes. That’s all I make humble request, that’s all. I hope it’s not difficult to take them out. I’ll stand up I think. Paul, can you help Me please?
Sahaja Yogi: She wants to stand….
Shri Mataji: There are lots of saints behind sitting there and you all have to become saints. For that just you have to put your hands on your lap as they do for Namaz like that because these fingers as you will see there are indicative of your sympathetic nervous systems, left and right and they form centers. So just put your hands like this. Now this hand represents the power of desire as you will see on the left hand side and this hand represents the power of action. Now what we have to do is to release our own centers by giving help to them and the Kundalini will then rise immediately because if the centers are augmented or constricted then Kundalini has to fight it. To make things easier for Her, we’ll have to put our hand, right hand on different centers, which I’ll tell you, which is very simple. You don’t have to do much about it.
So now the right hand that is the power of action we’ll be using for touching different parts like the heart, the stomach, the lower part of the stomach, then here at the base of the neck like this and then here on the forehead. Ultimately on top of our head where the bone was soft, the fontanel bone area. That’s all. It’s very simple one by one I will tell you. Another thing very important is that you should not open your eyes till I tell you because the happening has to take place within. Your attention should be inside and not outside. It will be sucked in. You don’t have to do, don’t fight with it, don’t fight with your thoughts, don’t fight with anything. Just let it loose it will work out. You have to sit comfortably in a straight manner without being lousy or without being over alert. Just sit in a very comfortable manner with your left hand towards Me and the right hand on the heart. You may take out your spectacles or anything because you have to keep your eyes shut all the time. It helps also the eye sight. Now put the left hand on your heart.
Sahaja Yogi: Right hand
Shri Mataji: I am sorry put your right hand on the heart and left hand towards Me.
At the very outset I have to tell you one thing that you should not feel guilty about anything because that’s one of the biggest hurdles in the West. So before saying anything you have to tell yourself that ‘I am not guilty, I am not guilty, I am not guilty’. Close your eyes and say that. You are not to put your neck very much backwards or forward or in any abnormal way, but sit comfortably. Now, on the heart you have to put your right hand and all the time keep the left hand towards Me. At this stage you have to ask Me a question because I said you are a computer and this is a very absolute question. You can call Me Mother or Shri Mataji whatever suits you.
‘Mother, am I the Spirit?’ Ask this question, three times. Please don’t open your eyes, keep the left hand towards Myself and put your right hand on your stomach in the upper-part; in the upper-part of the abdomen on the left hand side. We have to just look after the left hand side of our centers. So put the right hand on the left hand side of the upper part of your stomach. Here lies the center of mastery; the Guru, the Prophets. So here you have to say, because you have already asked a question that ‘Mother, am I the Spirit?’ You have to ask now another question relevantly with it. ‘Mother, am I my own Guru?’ Because if you are the master, if you are the Spirit, automatically you become the master. Unless and until you are the Spirit you do not become the master. So the second question should be ‘Mother am I my own master? Am I my own Guru? Mother, am I the Prophet?’ Three times please.
Now, now we start with the real asking by putting our right hand in the lower part of our abdomen in the left hand side. The right hand on the lower part of our abdomen, stomach, on the left hand side and press it a little bit. Here now is the beginning of asking for the true knowledge, for the true technique, for the pure knowledge. So please ask Me six times because this center is very important and has six petals, six sub plexuses it controls. Please ask six times because I cannot force you to do it unless and until you ask for it because you are free. To respect your freedom I have tell you that you have to ask ‘Mother may I have the true knowledge, the pure knowledge of the Spirit?’ six times. Now you must be confident about it, you should not be diffident, you should ask with full confidence.
Now, six times. Please don’t feel guilty and be confident. Now we have to raise it so we go back to the same position on the left side of our stomach in the upper part. Please put your right hand on the upper part of your abdomen on the left hand side. Now here you have to assert with full confidence. Ten times you have to say because there are ten valences we have, we have Ten Commandments and ten times the Primordial Master incarnated on this Earth. So we have to say ten times in full confidence ‘Mother I am my own master. Mother I am my own Guru. Mother I am the Prophet’. Now please say it ten times. Don’t feel guilty, please don’t feel guilty.
[Shri Mataji blows Cool Breeze twice.]

Now ten times; raise your right hand after saying ten times, to your heart. Again here there are twelve sub plexuses, so you have to assert with full confidence by saying ‘Mother I am the Spirit’, which is the truth. Without feeling guilty you must say that because God is the ocean of love, he is the ocean of compassion. He is the ocean of forgiveness and what kind of guilt you can have? What kind of sin you can commit that He cannot forgive? So don’t try to count your sins and count your mistakes and count your guilt just say, ‘Mother I am the Spirit’.
Now saying this about twelve times you raise your right hand at the base of the neck and press it hard on the shoulder. This center is always caught up. So again I have to say that for sixteen times you have to say, ‘Mother I am not guilty’ and if you have the habit of feeling guilty too much better say it hundred and eight times to punish your self. I am assuring you that you are not guilty but if you want to say that again and again all right go ahead with it for hundred and eight times. Don’t feel guilty otherwise you’ll miss the point.

[Shri Mataji guides someone in the audience] From the front hold it from the front not from the back, ‘saamne se hath lijiye, aise pichese nahin, saamne se haath lijiye’, tell him. That gentleman also, that one. Haan! Better from the front, much better.
Sixteen times; believe in yourself. Have faith in yourself, forgive yourself. First of all you forgive yourself. Or at the most you can say that ‘O Lord forgive me’, but don’t feel guilty while saying that.
[Shri Mataji to Sahaja Yogi: You shouldn’t disturb, I know what to do. I don’t want to listen to you.]
Now… you have to raise your hand up to your forehead and here you have to say in a very simple words, ‘Mother I forgive everything, I forgive everyone’ with full heart in it. Now some people told Me it’s very difficult and this and that but actually when you don’t forgive, what do you do? Or when you forgive what do you do? Nothing, it’s all mythical. On the contrary you are torturing yourself by not forgiving. So please say from your heart, ‘Mother I forgive everyone’; on your forehead.
Now, now raise your hand on top of your head, put it on the fontanel bone area, your palm and press it and move it clockwise, your scalp. At this point you have to say, ‘Mother please give me my Realization’ because I cannot cross your freedom again. This you have to say seven times. But before doing that please say that, ‘If I have done anything wrong, O Lord please forgive me’. Without feeling guilty again; three times. Now seven times you say, ‘Mother please give me my Self-Realization’ because I cannot cross.
[Shri Mataji blows the Cool Breeze twice…]
[What heat baap re…]
Now take down that hand.

[Shri Mataji blows Cool Breeze twice.]
Now put the left hand on top of your head about four inches above and see for yourself if there’s a Cool Breeze coming in.
[Shri Mataji blows Cool Breeze seven times]
Now change your hands and see for yourself if there’s a Cool Breeze coming in. Right side is clear, good. Now left side. Again change your hands and see if there is a Cool Breeze coming. Ah! better.
Shri Mataji to Sahaja Yogi: You have to ask the master question, Holy Ghost; later not just now.
Shri Mataji: Now those who are not feeling the Cool Breeze raise your hands please. Please raise them high so that they could see. Now the Sahaja Yogis will come and attend to you. Now don’t get upset with them. If you are not feeling the Cool Breeze raise your hands and if you are feeling it you got it. She’s got it, Vishuddhi, it is, she feels guilty. You felt it? Have you felt it? Not yet? All right; Aapko nahin hua? Aarahe hai. Some have felt, some have not felt doesn’t matter.
Sahaja Yogi: Just describe again what they should feel
Shri Mataji: You should feel a Cool Breeze coming out of your head like a cooler. There might be hot coming in doesn’t matter. You got it?
Sahaja Yogi: …He’s got a Cool Breeze coming from his hand into his head.
Shri Mataji: Correct! Now just see if it is coming from your head or not. Just check. Tell him to say that ‘Mother come in my head’. This lady, Derrick you go, just come and see. It’s better now, see. You may ask ‘Is this the Cool Breeze of the Holy Ghost?’ What about this lady? Ya, no somebody should attend to her and this one. Is there some another way someone should come and attend to this lady? ‘Aaapka nahin hua? Ho gaye? Aaraha hai? Ho gaye paar? Paar utara gaye sant jana re. Haan’

From the audience: There’s slight tingling on this palm.
Shri Mataji: In the left hand? Ask him to ask the question of Holy Ghost. On the left hand if they have tingling you can very easily do that.
Sahaja Yogi: Anyone who’s getting the tingling or not getting the vibrations on the left hand…
Shri Mataji: No, no let them tell them privately; don’t make it open
Sahaja Yogi:…just put your left hand to Mother.
Shri Mataji: Ask the question
Sahaja Yogi: Give me the Cool Breeze of the Holy Ghost.
Shri Mataji: No, ‘Are You the, Mother are You the Holy Ghost?’ I am asking to ask ‘Mother are You the Holy Ghost?’ Aa raha hai (it’s coming?) left hand towards Me. Left hand towards Me.
From the audience: ‘Mother, are You the Holy Ghost? Are You the Holy Spirit?
Shri Mataji: All right the tingling has gone, the answer has come, now recognize. May God bless you. Now this gentleman, what about the one who was worried about the Pope? Did he feel the Cool Breeze? This lady she’s got it.

What about you?
Lady from the seekers: …tingle
Shri Mataji: tingle on both the hands?
Lady: ..On both the hands
Shri Mataji: She has both the hands give her a bandhan. Haan ab bas shanti dharo, chit mein hi shanti. This gentleman – Maria? You have not forgiven; keep your eyes open and watch Me and say ‘Mother I forgive’.
Seeker: Mother I forgive everyone. Mother I forgive everyone.
Sahaja Yogi: Getting less tingle? Just say it again …, while looking at Mother.
Shri Mataji: Ho gaya jagaran? Have got it. You got it sir? Inke bhi ho gaya (he also got it). Aap unke sar pe dekhiye aura (you see on top of his head, aura). Haan has he got it? Tingling left? Ask him to ask the question of the Holy Ghost, you ask.
Just enjoy don’t think about it; just enjoy yourself, you got it. Now you have to establish yourself that’s the most important part and in Leicester we have a very powerful Sahaja Yogi, .. has spoken to you.
Sahaja Yogi: Just say ‘Shri Mataji are You the Holy Ghost? Shri Mataji are You the Holy Ghost?’
Shri Mataji: Holy Ghost mane [means] Adi Shakti. Haan
Sahaja Yogi: You are feeling it on your left hand?
Shri Mataji: That’s the answer. What about this lady? She got it? She’s got it.
Sahaja Yogi: …she is Sahaja Yogi
What about her? Haan what about this one, this gentleman with spectacles? Is she all right…? Good. Dekhiye sab paar hogaye. Tell him not to feel guilty. This gentleman here
Sahaja Yogi: Yellow shirt
Shri Mataji: Yellow shirt, please don’t feel guilty. What about the gentleman behind…..he’s all right, he’s got it, he’s got it. John you better get their names, who belong to Leicester. Maria, Maria come. Gavin I saw I think?
Sahaja Yogini: Yes he’s here.
Shri Mataji: He’s here; all right, all right. What do you say comes up and down? Tie it up, tie it up. Gavin…
Sahaja Yogi: ..he’s the Indian gentleman
Shri Mataji: Haan he’s what? Ask him to pull his ears.
Sahaja Yogi: He’s feeling it now, he pulled his ears. Please work in silence. Please work in silence. Please work in silence.
Sahaja yogi: It’s very important that you should follow-up this experience. There is a center in Leicester and at that center they can teach you very simple techniques some of which you’ve seen being done now to purify and remove these blockages in the charkas. They’ll teach you how to raise your Kundalini how to establish it, how to develop your vibrations and then ultimately how to cure yourself, how to cure others and how to give others self-realization. It’s so simple that you have to work it out together. John is going to be here ultimately and meanwhile they are going to have regular meetings so that you can follow it up. John will tell you little more.
[Shri Mataji: Agnya; she has very bad Agnya. Ask her to forgive everyone.]
John: We’ll be holding meetings every Thursday evening at his place; probably in the other room but in this building, 7.30 Thursday evenings. If you come along we can help you to maintain this experience and also to deepen it because what’s happened this evening is like a seed as I say it’s not become a old tree yet. It’s still a seed so by nurturing it, protecting it, watering it so on. It will enable it to grow and that’s what you can do at these meetings. Very soon you can learn as much as the Sahaja Yogis here have learnt, maybe even more hopefully by Shri Mataji’s blessings. There’s an address list that we are taking if you’d like to leave us your name and address we can then get in touch and you know in any other big meetings we can send you a post card reminding you where our regular meetings are and we’ll also put in the address of the center, the Sahaja Yoga center and then if you have any problems any [stage?] or anything like that you can contact us and we can tell you what to do and so on. Thank you very much
Shri Mataji: So I am very thankful for all this…What was the name of the gentleman on the TV?
Sahaja yogi: The interviewer?
Shri Mataji: No the other person. He’s the main person…
Sahaja yogi: He’s the editor, the film editor.
Shri Mataji: Now I have to tell you one thing, you should not discuss about your realization too much. Please Sahaja Yogis also should know. You see you are all Sahaja Yogis and you have achieved it, but they are still just, they have just gone into it. So try to understand, they are not like you that whatever is the situation you keep there. They, you have attained it, they have to attain still. So keep quiet and another thing is please don’t think about it don’t talk about it too much. Work it out. Its not that by talking is will work out on the contrary the more you’ll think about it the worse it will be. It’s like a small little plant, a little shoot. We have to be now careful with it, respect it and gradually when you’ll be coming to those meetings you’ll develop it. While the Sahaja Yogis who are here, all are experts and whatever may happen even there’s earthquake…

*(about William Blake)