Conversation After Shri Krishna Puja

New Jersey (United States)


Talk After Shri Krishna Puja, New Jersey (United States)  Sunday, August 19th, 1984

Shri Mataji : Like Christine, I should say, Mary came here, with her fiancé, big objection, imagine French having objection to Mary coming with her fiancé, you see, can you imagine the French going to the other extreme, (laughing). I mean it is absurd, and big telephone calls to me that Mother, this has happened and this is going to happen and that is. I said look at these French telling me about this. Can you imagine? Now they don’t want that you should even talk to another person, the one who is your fiancé, before marriage, shouldn’t even look at that person, the French! (big laughter) Can you believe it! (laughter) I mean the extreme of that! So I told her better not go to but they had tickets and they couldn’t return, I said ‘baba don’t go’, big objection from everywhere, I’m amazed at it myself (laughing) and this is a new kind of a problem coming up. I can’t understand (laughing). I have seen this happens like that, another extreme, you see they are so fed up with what they have been. Just don’t want to have anything more of that, but this is the extreme can you imagine, French objecting to something like that? I mean, just think of it.

 Now racist, English have the worst racist I tell you. Who was racist? They started the racialism actually. But in England if you take the name of that Enoch Powell they will go and vomit, Sahaj yogis. They can’t see his photograph, they can’t bear him, they just cannot look at it. What about Australians I tell you?  Australians are like that, great racists, but I have seen Warren and all that hate people who are racist. Absolutely they hate it, I am really surprised at the way they hate racist. It’s just I don’t know, hate to such an extent that it is sometimes very surprising, very surprising. They get after Sahaj yogis who little bit say something, I mean unwittingly also say something, just as if they have become their enemies now, so now there a another thing is a, one is a Sahaj yogis vs  Sahaj yogis. Is very strong, very strong. Like, er, people coming from Madras are very ritualistic, so if they come to Sahaj yoga they are so much against ritualism that they will not even care for a puja, no, no, no nothing puja, nothing, nothing. You better have it simple because they are so fed up of it. Like a fundamentalist becoming a  Sahaj yogi, you see, it is like that. It’s a big problem and then big quarrels start because they are living in the same community now and if they become such staunch ritual, ahhh anti-ritualist, how to fight it? Also people go to the other swing, I have seen, too much.(now, thank you, I have had, but little bit if you give me, if you are giving I’ll have (laughter) (sound of teacup) Oooh! ) So what should happen to Americans now, to go to another extreme, tell me, (laughing)

(yogi: conservative and complicated, Mother…)

 Conservative, they can, be careful on that one, don’t be conservative, we have to be in the centre, we are neither conservative and neither we are liberalites, you see, liberals, we are in the centre, that’s the point.

(Yogi: Mother I think you pointed out the other day what it was that would stabilize Sahaj yogis because of their financial instability, they are like blowing in every breeze, as soon as they lose a job or they have no security, so to work for themselves in some way, a small group of cooperatives in some sensible industry would be a very good idea)

Shri Mataji: No I told you that, you should start some sort of a thing together, work it out together and you will enjoy also each other’s company, it’s a good idea, but not in the name of  Sahaj yoga. But in that also there are problems, I must say. So far it has failed, so be careful on that, like you have to trust each other very much. That’s very important and not to get angry. Like you see they wanted to buy carpets, Australians, they said all right, so they asked Modi to buy carpets for them. Modi told them very frankly that carpet is my business but I will buy for you and I will take so much of commission and then you sell it at whatever price you like. Everything was settled. Then when Modi bought it, he bought them at a good price, sold them for a good price, they saw it, but there was some sort of an artificial thing in between which he never knew which was discovered In Australia. They got angry with Modi for that, but as a result of that, because Modi had not cheated them, he was very angry. He was annoyed with Australians for about 3 years. He could not get out of it, for 3 years, so that’s what happens. So I don’t want that, there should be any problem between you. If you have to do business do it, but don’t have any problems, trust each other, don’t try to cheat each other, don’t try to play, it will work out.

(Yogi: (yogi speaking in Hindi) about sourcing silk scarfs in Delhi)

(Mother replies in Hindi)

Shri Mataji: How many people will buy scarf? This has no substantial value

(yogi: Same with carpets, Mother, carpets in this country, millions of carpets from India, they don’t sell, 1 or 2 carpets they sell now and again)

Shri Mataji: See, what you have to get from India is something that you must have a proper survey, what you can get in India, what sort of things you would like to make it, and get that. That’s the substantial way of looking at it because I am your Mother, now I am telling you substantial thing. Like, say for example, now children’s clothes, I agree, is a very need there, but the kind of children’s clothes you need for America will be that you must have a bonnet with it, you must have a proper dress with it, you must have a matching shoes with it and all that completely done and all the outfit for a child when he is born, something like that. If you have something, sets or something sensible like that. What you need is something sellable. India we use cotton napkins, you wouldn’t like that, out of question. They will send cotton napkins, what will you do with that? You see, so you must know what you people want and what is to be done and that should be brought (Hindi-send something from there, will few days and finished, how much consumption is here, very little)

I know what sort of scarfs will sell, I know, I have full idea, but we don’t make like that in India, we have to make like that. You see the print should be such that the border should be on all 4 sides, and the colour scheme is also different from ours, very different (Hindi- to work for few days is no benefit) do something substantial, make a steady, proper, what you want to have, what you want to place, where do you want to place it, otherwise it will be just flimsy stuff, little bit, this thing, that thing, (Hindi- not like that). Something substantial, something original, something nice which will suit them, you should get. Even if they export saris what’s the use. I mean who’s going to wear the saris? So what they have to do you have to tell them what sort of a cloth you would like to have. Now this design won’t look nice for your dresses, even if you have this design, its all right for a sari. So if you say that this kind of a design you should have in silk, so much of weaving should be done, they should do it that way and send it, what will suit to your dress. This is the basic problem I think we have.

(Yogi: Must be tailored to their needs, Mother)

Shri Mataji: Or anything you make, just boxes this that, Baba there is no need of these things any more here. I personally think that China has understood much more the need of the west than we have. (Hindi) you see the Chinese cloisonné is so expensive and people buy it because it has that aesthetic; aesthetics are different. We need not have something oriental, you know. It should be American but done in India. (Hindi- no use in indulging in it, no benefit) For example shawls, no use exporting shawls here, how many will buy shawls, but if you make a dress out of this, a proper sensible American dress, then that will sell. (Hindi) And I have been selling these to so many people. You know I was on the board of this Khadi? I was telling them that make something that the people want, why do you want to have your own colour schemes? But they won’t listen. Otherwise in India you get all kinds of things, no doubt, but something that you need we can make. Why not make that?

(Yogi: There was a man from Italy Mother who makes the most expensive leather clothes in the world, leather jackets. He went to India and he brought his head designer with him from Italy to teach the Indians how to make the style that would sell in the west. He taught them that they make good quality material, sell for lots of money)

Shri Mataji: Yugoslavia, they sent one person there, he started a factory in Madras and they are selling all over the world, that leather that we get in. Leather is so much cheaply available. Wigs are coming from India. Americans started the wig company in India

(Yogi: Even shoes Mother)

Shri Mataji: Eh? Shoes also, shoes, English, who are making?

(Yogi: in Agra they are making for American markets and English markets)

Shri Mataji:(Hindi) They are making in Argentina whatever is needed. We have to see what sort of thing they like to wear, what sort of, that’s not so

(Yogi: (Hindi- parents export to us and England big companies they buy from them))

Shri Mataji: No but those things that we send them, you see, are sold here very cheaply into very large stores because (Hindi- makes no sense) but if you really want to do something substantial then you should find out what they need, what things they will appreciate. You must understand their aesthetics.

(Yogi: Perfumes, they are very cheap on the exporting area)

Shri Mataji: But I don’t know if you people like our perfumes

(Yogi: In Europe we sell a lot and they’re very simple, we make combinations, for example essential oil of rhododendron is Chanel number 5)

Shri Mataji: What is that? Is oil of what?

(yogi. Rhododendrons, Mother)

Shri Mataji: Rhododendrons.

(yogi: from the Himalyas)

Shri Mataji : Yes,yes,so many things like that, so many like that, only we should learn that much now, that’s, the trouble with Indians is. They don’t see the bigger vision of things, they do not go into the bigger business, they go into smaller things and send these…all right, that’s not the way, that’s what I am telling you, that you just find out what people need and then get it here.

(Yogi: Mother, Gandhi, had it there when he told people to stop wearing the cloth from England because what they would do is weave the cloth there, send it to England, and in England they’d make the thing and send them back and Indians would wear them. They should do it the other way round, they should be exporting things that are needed in the west and we can wear them because we have more money than they do)

Shri Mataji: Yes, of course. Not because of that, but because you cannot get hand made things here, the compensation should be there you see. You send us your machinery and we will send you hand made things. Isn’t it? Russians are very clever, you go to Russia, oh baba their houses are full of lace work, beautiful lace work. You know in the house they wear lace things and they have chandeliers, they have beautiful crockery, beautiful carpets, huge big carpets and I said ‘from where do you get all this?’ ‘From India, they have bilateral thing’, and I said ‘how do you?’, ‘We send them junk and they send us this ( laughter) openly, ‘We send them junk, what they are sending us these tractors, this that and we send them all these things.’ Jewellery of such variety you can’t imagine, they have beautiful crockery, beautiful things in the house, the whole house is filled with beautiful things. They live so well, all hand made. Very clever people I tell you, very clever. I don’t know, they did not have much tradition but they are very clever in these things.

(Yogi: In India they have so little equipment, like a sewing machine is such a big possession to have. We saw one man who had one on his bicycle and he was so proud of it. Such a possession)

Shri Mataji: Even bicycle is a big proud possession. Now if you send a bicycle you can get at least one room completely decorated with real silk, minimum. Like you can get the paper made out of Indian silk very easily, very simple. The Chinese use Indian, what you call this kind of er, Indian silk, what you call that, er, raw silk? The whole house is done with raw silks. Can you imagine? What they do, they get the silk, apply the paper and put it, finished. But this is what one has to know; what Americans would like to have, what is to be done and do it in a proper way and for that if my scheme works out I think you will be quite well off, all right? So there is lot of future for us, for our school, for our business things, our living, our styles, everything should improve and we should live in a better style and we should be able to earn much more than what we are earning and we’ll be able to have a very distinguished living, very distinguished living with this kind of a thing. Not India, but there are many other places, where from where you can get things done but this would be one of the ways you can work it out I think and it’s not.. Then you can also export your things to India as a result of that, you can. You can export your machinery, your cars, everything, you have such a lot of junk lying here, even if you want to send this junk you can sell it in India. All this junk that you have here, you sell it, you sell your plastics, you can sell it. You can sell your nylons. Send all that is surplus here there and you get it these things.

(Yogi: Mother, we are going to India, what things or useful things can we bring the Indian people who I know some are poor, and could benefit from us bringing things which are very accessible here, very easy to get. What could we take them which would be of use to them?)

Shri Mataji: You see of course, I mean, they like these little little tape recorders or something if they can have. I saw some nice watches are quite good here and things like that, nylons, I am already taking lots of cotton saris from here and now there will be about 14 plus 40 will be about I think 54 saris, I am taking now

(Yogi: What about new husbands for them?) (laughter)

Shri Mataji: Husbands will be good idea, husbands, husbands ha, 

(Yogi ‘Non returnable Shri Mataji!)

Shri Mataji: Good idea.(laughs, general laughter) Nice husbands we should get and anything like that which has to do something with modern things they like, even stainless steel things they like. If they take stainless steel for them they like it

(Yogi: Photographs of you Mother?)

Shri Mataji: Of course, no doubt. What a give and take we have in Sahaja yoga. Just see, from France we took those Arcopal, unbreakable, oh baba, it was so much appreciated, they have a cup in the house now. They gave them one cup each, so they have kept the cup for me, I said now I don’t like Arcopal. You see they think it is a very great cup, you know, they won’t give me in a silver cup but in that. Arcopal, what you call that, what do you call Arcopal?. Unbreakable, Arcopal, melamine, something like that.(laughs) 

(yogis:Try to explain to each other what is Arcopal)

Shri Mataji : All right, let’s have some music

(Yogi: This was today, apparently as a result of yesterday’s puja, We’ve taken our collectivity to a new level and we have a number of items, number of committees, that different groups in America are committing themselves to doing and we wanted you to look it over and see if you approve and if so we will distribute them throughout the country and ask other countries if they have equivalent types of committees that we could contact in order to network our skills together)

Shri Mataji: (reading) What do you do with them? Now agriculture, means what?

(Yogi: Anyone who has any suggestions about agriculture)

Shri Mataji: In India?

(Yogi: Yes. Any literature that they will need sending anywhere, anything of use, like in music Mother, anyone who writes songs either for mass market or whatever reasons they write them. They could be sent experiment for reaching a larger audience Mother, potential  Sahaja yogis)

Shri Mataji: So whom will you send?

(Yogi: We will send this to all the centres, all the centres in the country will have the equivalent of this list so we will know who will be the expert in that  particular area. We will have all the information gathered together relevant to that particular problem and then we will send this out to the different countries and in hopes that they will have equivalent types of committees in order for us to network on an international level)

(Yogi: It’s like sharing and pooling, Mother, our different strengths and capacities)

(Yogi: We need a tape, audio or video tape, we know we can contact one person, not everyone, and that one person will take care of everyone)

(Yogi: It needs a fuller explanation for when we send it out Mother, that’s just the names that we have put to the titles, but an explanation would be necessary to expand on that, to tell people what it was that they would have to send. Mostly from within America Mother)

Shri Mataji: No, no, no. This is legal non-profit organization and its finances. Fund raising. No I think Christine, you keep out, because she is the one who has to coordinate

(Yogi: Mainly for advice on financial matters or starting up funds Mother, mainly if we keep in touch contact with her, let her know what we are doing)

Shri Mataji: What I am saying, that you see you keep Christine there and through her you can contact me, because you see that is the problem because I cannot telephone to all of you to find out what is it, you cannot get me there on the phone, you see. Because say now in London I get telephones every day, so many telephones from everyone, so that’s not a good thing. You see that keeps me over busy just with telephoning. You see, what you should do is to, whatever you do it you make an office here say, with Christine, keep all the record with her, and if there is anything that you want to get through me out of it, then you should let me know and she should also know what you are doing. Sort of you must have somebody with whom I can have contacts

(Yogi: Yes Mother)

Shri Mataji: Somebody, you see otherwise it’s impossible, it will go fritter away

(Yogi: Mother, As far as I understood, some internal organization in the states so that, under Christine’s control, everyone can know, everyone can say they have to see these people….)

Shri Mataji: You see the coordinating thing should be through one person, you see supposing now this is cultural exchange program with India, say for example, now they have put Christine and Michael, I would say put Michael Petrunia not Christine, Christine keep it out. Now what happens, that now, anybody x supposing is in charge of this all right, should find out.  They have to find out even among yourselves you see. Christine should be informed, she can inform me and you can find out something, but supposing in between you have to find out, say you have to find out something, say from him, directly, something about it, about say, this thing, it’s better that …better would be to have one contact because is easier for me, I have seen it becomes frittered away. Supposing you want to know something about something, say you want to know about, say about television. Like we had a problem, I will tell you an exact problem. We have got say example our Mr, what’s his name, Mr Paul who writes big fast for sometimes, it’s difficult man, he has got this, what you call, camera. (laughs) This is the camera here, now this fellow works arbitrarily, arbitrarily where it’s very dangerous. So this fellow brought his camera, without asking anybody he puts it somewhere in the room, and he is sitting there, so Gavin said he should have asked Mother. If he had asked me I would have asked her will you have the program inside or outside? You just come arbitrarily, you put it here, not have asked somebody, he said no but how will I know that you want to put the camera, I want to put camera where? As soon as I came you see the camera was put inside the room. now inside the room hardly 20 persons can sit if they sit on top of each other. Now how can I give a lecture in the room? Just think of it, I didn’t know that the camera was put on this side, I went outside, and they said Mother, the camera cannot be brought, I said ‘why not, why not? I’ll wait for a while, bring it’, but now because he has decided on this, It cannot be done, I said ‘Let it be’, and it boiled down to such a ego business, you see, that I had to shout at him, and I told him that, you throw away this camera, we have nothing to do, so he came round. I’m not saying that it’s Paul. Paul is that way a very loving and a good person but it builds up. If you have anything arbitrary it will build up into a kind of a ego thing, ego centred thing, so you must, if you have to do something, you must, in case it consults, you see use your discretion also. Supposing you want to, now finances take away, see (sky?) finances there. Now she looks after the fundraising, I would say, is the most difficult thing fundraising I think. Is now for that, what you have to do, all of you have to, supposing raise the funds, you have to tell her that we have raised so much funds, or supposing your import/export possible is now Karan Kurana and Gary  Nadri is there. Now you are exporting importing something like this and that, now, between Karan Kurana and Gary Nadri who is the person who has to do? Supposing they want to import something or export something or do something about it, you would like to know, from me something about it, isn’t it? Now how will they know? Or now suddenly Gary telephones  to me, now I have to attend to that, so I become sort of a target, you see my point is, of so many people, you understand? So what you do is supposing he has to import or export something, in short they should ask Christine, ‘Will you please ask Mother, is it all right?’. If there is some problem or something, then I will know I have told them, this thing, this thing, or maybe I might give you some good ideas at that time. But if everybody is telephoning to me, you can imagine I’ll be sitting at the telephone only, I agree with you it’s a good idea, this is to be dealt here, but if it has to be consulted, it has to come and Christine must know about it

(Yogi: This is one thing the we did spell out to everyone, it could go over again many times; that everything, everything will come at least once to Christine’s attention, so she knows what we are doing)

Shri Mataji: Or you can have the paper with her so that I can consult. Now I will tell you another horrible thing has happened in England, horrible thing, one of the worst that could happen to an organization. When I was in India, you see, this fellow, what’s his name was, Jason, he is not a bad man, I’m not saying he is bad; he started a thing by saying that I am going to look after the legalization of  the trust. I said ‘All right, you make a Trust thing, you make a thing, properly, according to the Indian style and then you get it done’. All right, now what happen he made it on his own, he made it a business proposition. Now I did not know anything about it, I told him ‘You must tell, you must tell Hester and you must tell Gavin, so that Gavin will tell me’. Now Hester he told, and Hester was frightened she said ‘No, that’s not good’, but Hester should have told Gavin and you know the whole thing came before me, I was shocked I tell you! I said what’s this? And how it came, because Modi read it, and Modi said’ This cannot be Mother’s it’s impossible, this cannot belong to Mother’. And because of that, you see the communication gap, and the whole thing was done and all the English laws and everything, it was very badly done, the letters were so badly written, so embarrassing. I tell you I had to apologize to the authorities, I said ‘No I don’t want that kind of a thing, I want just a simple Trust’. And now only what was the gap was, they should have told Gavin and Gavin would have told me because I used to talk to Gavin all the time. When I was in India I would talk to him. So whole thing was done and it was discovered here in America! And then I told her ‘Why didn’t you tell Gavin’? She said ‘I was afraid of Jason’. So I’m telling you, now, that you see whatever you do, you must tell someone, don’t be afraid. Supposing you do something and you tell him something, you should not be afraid of telling something about what he is doing to Christine, because how will I know? You must understand my difficulty, in a very simple way. And then Jason became very ego oriented, everything became ‘I’ve done so much this thing’, I said ‘No, I’m sorry I cannot compromise, I am sorry you have to withdraw it’. Now he is all right, he’s come round, he is perfectly all right, he is good, but he understood it, that Mother cannot compromise on this point. So I feel that always keep the contact informed, do what you like, I do not mind, but anything you do, you must….. Now say press and media is very important; now one will say ‘I paid so much to this man because I went to the press’. We have had problems like this, like Patrick, Mr Patrick coming up, and Christine should have informed me that time, she may say ‘I was afraid of Patrick’, perhaps, I don’t know why she didn’t inform me that this fellow has now become the leader. At least ask me, Mother, have you appointed him as a leader, don’t you think so, In all fairness to me? And she feels weak there you see, that’s the problem is. So this is what I am saying, that you should support her, in a way she doesn’t feel weak to tell me, and what a problem it created, you can think of that. Then they gave this money to this woman here, you see, two thousand. Same thing, they are afraid to tell me. Why should the leader be afraid to tell me whatever is there, this is it? Because she feels that, or he feels, that he’ll be challenged that you’ll challenge, that you may say something against. So you don’t challenge your leadership because that’s a very bad point, you know, that’s a weak point and that is how we always have suffered. I don’t mind do anything you like but I must know about it, if there is anything that is to be asked. My attention has to be there, that’s all, only My attention has to be there; publishing same thing, I tell you

(Yogi: There, everything was going to be sent to New York first, everything)

Shri Mataji: I mean, at least give her some synopsis about it, this is this, so that I can refer, otherwise Christine, ‘Why this has happened?’, ‘I don’t know Mother’. ‘Why such a letter was sent?’ ‘I don’t know Mother’, and I see this letter in Switzerland when they have already sent the money, is it proper? Somebody has to be connection. If she is there, all right, if she is not there, she is there, all right. If he’s there, he’s there, all right, accept. This much you must accept, all right? Just this much you must accept that if somebody is there, that is the person. Otherwise arbitrary behaviour is against Sahaj yoga, is against collectivity. You agree with me, Patrick? Anything arbitrary in any business is dangerous. In Sahaj yoga it is absolutely anti-sahaj. So don’t feel bad, that you have to tell her, NO you have to tell Me, it is she who will tell Me. If she finds anything funny or anything, otherwise you know she, she won’t tell Me also. You shouldn’t mind, is important, I must see that, it is through My attention you will work it out better, there’s nothing to feel bad about anything, all right (unclear word). Now say for example, Sahaja Yoga school; now coordination with Australians and Indian efforts, now you can do it directly but that’s not good, it won’t work out. What you have to do is to inform me, I’ll tell everyone, or you can tell Gavin who is sitting down there, or you can tell somebody in London if I am there. If I am in India you can tell somebody who is in India. Wherever I am, there will be somebody who will relate it to me, and I tell you it will improve, it will definitely improve. Coordination is the most important thing we must learn from Japanese. Japanese do that way, extremely coordinated people. Like here I have seen now, like in Indian homes anybody’s going out, anybody, please tell the wife in the house, she’s the one who has to be told I am going out. Even some children they go to the bathroom, they say ‘Mother I am going to the bathroom’. So you know where you are. It’s a custom, everybody will say (aacha –hindi) OK I am going (in Hindi- true or not, tell Mother always) there is no need to tell the Mother but they will. They will wait till Mother comes out, or if she is taking a bath “Mother I am going”, if she says “yes” then go. What is the reason, reason is you are coordinated, everyone knows where you are, where you have gone, what is it; it’s important. We are part and parcel of the whole, all right? That’s why, so nobody, I am very happy with all that, you go ahead with it, but nobody should so directly that I am not at all aware, suddenly you find oh bah! Something sitting on your head there

(Yogi: We noticed after everything was written that we had 16 points!) (laughter)

Shri Mataji: See this is it, that’s the proof of collectivity, you see this is Krishna’s week and we must really…

(Yogi: One thing we discovered when we were doing Mother after we finished, we really felt like one, no matter whether that is just the beginning of something, we felt that…)

Shri Mataji: Now this I will tell you about video documentary, what a problem baap-re. Mr er, what’s his name is? Douglas, he was doing video, nobody knows what was happening, I had no idea, nothing. One day by mistake somebody told me, Mother we haven’t got any videos from Douglas, I said ‘Really?”  I asked Gavin ‘Why is it there is nothing?’ Gavin tells me that he doesn’t give his videos to anyone. He says he’ll make the copy. I said ‘But why?’ ”It is he who is going to decide’, I said ‘Really?’ I called him, I said ‘ Show me the video’ When we saw the tapes you couldn’t hear anything of My voice or anything (just gargling sounds) going on. He had never heard it, never did anything, didn’t know anything, all my speeches wasted! And in India, same thing happened, with Mr Pie, he was the one recording and he was not giving tapes to anyone, to, nobody was getting any tapes and England nobody was getting tapes so I asked him, I said ‘Why?’. I asked Modi, Modi said ‘Don’t ask me Mother, I can’t get any tapes’, I said ‘Why?’ He said no, I said ‘Why didn’t you tell me this fellow never gave you any tapes? Now, so many tapes from that time nothing is available, can you imagine? ‘No, so I was naughty I should say. He said he will not give any tapes whatever I may try’, I said ‘All right we’ll manage’. So I called him to Kolapur, I said you better come and see me here, so they felt very elated, both husband and wife came, and I sent a letter with another person to Bombay, to his son, that ‘send me all the tapes’. (laughter) When they were out of their house the boy collected all the tapes and I brought all of them with me here. Now they have to be duplicated, that’s all.

 So all this is there, there’s no coordination is a big problem. Like from here they sent a big huge camera to India and the custom officer said, ‘I said from where does this come?’ They said ‘Paul has brought it, what you do with it?’ They said ‘The customs don’t allow’, I said ‘I never knew he has brought a camera, that it’s coming, nothing of the kind’, Gavin said ‘I never knew Mother, he’s sending on his own’, I said ‘Really, now what to do? So I said ‘You ask the customs what do they want’, they said ‘You must give a guarantee of 8 lakhs of rupees’. I said ‘If the camera is lost we lose 8 lakhs of rupees?’ I said ‘Nothing doing, we don’t give any guarantee’ I said ‘All right, now you go and tell them very seriously that this is for Mataji Nirmala Devi’s programme and we assure you we will take back the camera, we have nothing to do’, and you go and tell them frankly, and they agreed, all right. But the two mad caps, they sent from there without asking anyone, and these 2 mad caps were fighting in the car and in all the things, so the driver came and said ‘Mother I’m not going to take these people anywhere’, I said ‘Why, they are going to murder each other?’ (laughter) ‘Murder, why’ he said ‘They fight so much, I’m frightened, I’m shaking, I cannot take them anywhere, you get somebody else’. So I called these, one of them, I said ‘Why you fighting”, he said ‘Mother, I cannot carry on with this person’, I said ‘Who put you them together?’ and then they said somebody put them together. The other fellow, I asked him, ‘Why do you fight with that, she’s the one who knows’. They said ‘It is Mother, it is a personality clash’ (Mother sounding ironic), I said ‘What, is that Mr Heath and Margaret Thatcher having a clash?’ (laughing). Horrible (laughs) and such problems you can’t even (laughter) so all this joke is to just to convince you that we must have some connection and I should know what’s going on, is important, because that’s how we can really avoid all personality clashes. Is very good idea, I’m very happy about that. 

Now when you say agriculture and horticulture I’ll give an idea. This one you have to write, not to anybody else but to Dr Sangwe, you must get his address, Dr Sangwe, who is in India. He is the one who is in charge. How will you know if I don’t tell you? (laughs)

(Yogi: Karan just mentioned that could you mention who should do what from that list, maybe it would not be convenient at the moment to do that, but if it was, who would be in charge of what centre?)

(Yogi: Hindi- confusion about centres in North America) some people are confused (?) there’s confusion about it)

Shri Mataji: (Hindi.)  I don’t know how many centres you have really. Nothing I know, how many centres you have, who are in charge, no idea. There’s nothing written down anything, systematically karo, then I’ll tell you. I have no idea where. I also don’t have idea whether you are in San Francisco, or Los Angeles or in New York. There’s no system about it yet done, I must say. You must know who are the people in this centre, that centre. London is better because Mataji is sitting down there on their heads, (laughter) lucky people. Everything written down, and we have also got a, what you call that camp, in a hospital you have something, segregation camp, so we one centre for segregation camp, isolation, isolation, isolation we have one centre, is isolation centre also, yeah. (laughter) That’s where the people who have all kinds of badhas live together,(laughter) fight each other, we also send them some sticks to fight each other (laughter). They can cut each other’s hair if they want to, do what they like, finish with it. (laughs) So we, I would like to know who is where, where it is, write it down.

 Christine, can you come and help me there?

(Yogi: 9 centres, 7 United States, 2 in Canada- Boston, New York, Houston, San Diego, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Santa Cruz, Toronto and Vancouver)

Shri Mataji: Vancouver (Hindi) Laurie, Toronto ka Steve hai ____?__, Boston ka Steve hai? Christine in New York, Houston hai Mangal Singh sahib, San Diego has Dev, Los Angeles have you

(Yogi:Santa Cruz has Patrick and Diana)

Shri Mataji: Tikka (hindi)

(Yogi: San Francisco Danny)

Shri Mataji:is Tikka (hindi)

(Yogi: Cannot hear SY well)

Shri Mataji: Tikka (hindi)

Shri Mataji: Yes, it’s all right, yes I saw the stars

(Yogi: this is the list)

Shri Mataji: New York Christine Petrunia tikka, Los Angeles Karan tikka, San Diego David tikka, San Francisco Danny ,tikka, Santa Cruz Patrick tikka, Santa Cruz Patrick tikka, Boston Steve tikka, Toronto Michael tikka, Vancouver Laurie tikka, Houston Howard tikka tikka. Till I find them all right. But you all should contact Christine you see (in Hindi and English, if you contact me directly then 16 people I’ll have to talk to again, so that should not be, can contact her, it’s all right, perfectly all right. 

(Hindi) You must not make anybody feel smaller or less, always. Carry on with everyone, try to be friendly, try to be kind, nice. Do not discard them and you have to be mildly about it. That’s very important I would say to all the people, you have to be mild. You should not be weak but you should be mild. Try to get as many as possible; among yourself if there is a problem then it is very difficult. So take a patronising attitude, like leaders have to take a patronising attitude, like a father. So treat them like a father in a way or like a Mother that you should be there, is good; give them importance; give them some work, er, congratulate them; help them in a way that is they need. It should not be sort of a dictatorial stuff at all, that’s not the way you can lead. How your Mother does, that’s the way. Least of all, like the best room like we had in Australia, the best room Terence would have, Terence the great, you see the great hero, I don’t know what he was – another… These are examples for us to learn, we can say how the leadership is lost, you see. I told you about so many, but now this is Terence, the rarest one that you could think of. His wife, another Indian great lady, she went there, and she said big stories about him, that Mother told us- all false – that 2 great sons are going to come here from Australia and they are going to lead the world and she said that Terence was something like Vishwamitra before lives, he was Vyasa this thing, that thing. Whatever she knew, little bit, she said all the stories, you see, and then she became a mini Mataji there. She had a room to herself (laughter), and tea was carried to her in the morning, and she would sit there, I mean, imagine, such a description that I would not go to that level and they had to put her water in, they had to make her bath ready, and all things she did, and this fellow used to shout at people and talk, and when I went there I found some of the ladies talking like him, you know, towards… I said ‘What’s this?’ In front of me they were talking like that, all the bhoots from the lady had gone into them.  It’s horrible it was. Then we threw away some ladies from the ashram, those who were under his influence. Horrible things she did, horrible things he did, so you see we don’t want all that repetition, so, also the leaders must know, even, even they threw away Warren from there. So leaders must know they should not be arbitrary, they should not be high handed, they should have the least comfort compared to others, sacrificing, working hard, doing everything that with complete sincerity, and money matters should be above board. Always show how much you have got the money, how you have spent the money; where you have spent the money. You have to show to all the members, it should be a open thing. We do that in London, everything is open. Isn’t it Pat?

(Pat: yes)

Shri Mataji: Anybody can see the register, that’s very very very very important. Everybody must be consulted, agreed too. The leader is that one who can carry on with many people, keeping Sahaj yoga in full understanding. Because sometimes you know, people can carry on but there are all kinds of this, that, this, that and they drop out. Like we had one lady, when I came away to America, she started a sort of a thing as Sahaj yoga, and she became a real bhoot, you know, she used to beat people with this thing, and she used to tell them what you are going to get tomorrow in the horse, what horse to put the money in, all sorts of things she did, and she had, when I went to see her she had 3000 people. So the popularity doesn’t explain it, but the principle and the principle should be worked out in such a way that everybody should be there. But must use all the tact, all the intelligence and the love and the compassion. That you must use, and that’s how you become great leaders, all right. That’s a good idea, very good idea, you go ahead with it, I’m very happy. Who is Diana Reah?

(Yogi: Patrick’s wife, Mother)

(Yogi: I haven’t changed my name legally yet…. my legal name is Diana Reah)

Shri Mataji: And who is this Patrick?

(Yogi: Patrick and Diana, they are husband and wife, but she still hasn’t changed her name of her first..)

Shri Mataji: Oh I see (laughter) that’s your father’s name?

(Yogi: I was divorced, Mother that was my first husband’s name, I was divorced)

Shri Mataji: All right. 

(Yogi: Danny married her, Mother)

Shri Mataji: Oh, Danny man (laughter)  oh I must say, Danny they were going to call you. That fellow, the (unclear) that’s a good idea, that’s what I wanted to find out from him, all right, I know him. Now Mark Taylor and, is the one, who is Mark Taylor?

(Yogi: He’s gone)

 Shri Mataji: Marsha and all. The calendar you want to make, is it?

(Yogi: Yes a calendar for India, Mother, a very special one, so we can give the Indians)

Shri Mataji: Now, you see, all those things that require money or anything, these will require money. Now this has to come from some funds, so the fund should be central fund, you cannot collect it, so for example now, Marsha, she should not collect on her own, she should not, but she can arrange all that, how to do it, plan it everything, and should come from the central fund. That’s the best way, for anything that like that, you see.

(Yogi: you mean like each centre contributes to the central fund when they are asked?)

Shri Mataji:  And when they ask it goes from the central fund and then the account must be submitted again to the central fund, so somebody must keep the accounts, and I would say that for that, best is, will you look after the fund Sia? Will you keep, will you write down all the accounts and things? No?

(Yogi : I was yawning, I could not hear what you were saying. I yawned)

Shri Mataji: All right, no, What I am saying, will you be willing to write down all the accounts? Whatever accounts people send. You are good at accounts? 

(Yogi: I never liked banking, but I’ll try it)

 (Yogi: We have someone in New York who deals with accounting all the time, Caroline)

(Yogi: Banker)

Shri Mataji: You see, then will you write the accounts?

Caroline: yes

Shri Mataji: that’s very kind of you (clapping), so now what you do is to whatever money you need you take it from the central account. She will be writing the accounts, you see, and you let me know, and then, once this is, the account writing itself, is that whatever you have given her, whatever has come, and whatever she has spent to be put down in that way. It should be done by you, so you keep the bookkeeping as they say. We have got in London this Victoria, Vicky, she does that, she keeps all the accounts, but I mean, sanction and all that is done by Gavin and he sees to the flow of the money, but the account keeping as such is done by her, which is very important. 

All right so, that settles it. So, may God Bless you, thank you  very much. It has been a very nice time with you all, and I hope next time I come each one of you will gather, Sahaj yogis, in many numbers and of great quality, of very great quality, may God Bless you. You are all in my attention, please send me the photographs of all the people, that’s very important. I have been requesting you again and again please send me photographs, put them in a proper group, write it down properly, just, some people just send me a photograph, don’t even write behind that, this is the photograph of this one, sometimes I find I have compiled so many photographs, there’s nothing written down, so behind the photograph everybody must write.

(Yogi: Shri Mataji one of our Sahaj yogis in New York is compiling, he took photographs of everybody here, who came to the puja and he is bringing them tomorrow)

Shri Mataji: Aaaah, that’s fine, thank you very much (clapping) American style I should say wawww.   All right that’s a great, that’s a real great thing you have done for me, really. I mean nothing can be greater than that, I mean I would love to have that, something really great you have done, because this I was thinking, that I would again lose you, when will I get the photographs what will happen, this and that, was worrying me, I’m so happy. Who is doing that?

(Yogi:  Lenny, Lenny Willoughby)

Shri Mataji: where is she?

(Yogi: he had to go away, to print the photographs) (laughter)

Shri Mataji: Will he come back tomorrow? I hope so

(Yogi: tomorrow, Mother)

Shri Mataji: All right, so that’s a promise, thank you, thank you, very much.

Yogi: Bolo Shri Americeshwari sakshat Mataji Nirmala Devi ki Jai!

Shri Mataji: (laughing) Now what about the music, one at least?  No shawl for the baby?

(Yogi: No it’s all right Mother)

Shri Mataji: No no you have this one, come along, you have it All right, come along.

Yogi Singing (applause)

Shri Mataji: Tremendous you are a great singer, isn’t he, he’s going to be a great man one day you will see, I hope you don’t forget me! (applause). Tremendous, he is tremendous I tell you, he’s tremendous. Aah, he’s tremendous. I’m surprised, how is it, hiding himself? In this country, you may not be understood so much as maybe in England or something. I don’t know here there’s a big competition I think, but you are great, really you are great. Can do very well, your voice, I mean, tremendous. That’s a special gift to you people, isn’t it, from God, don’t you think so, what voice there is, isn’t it? They’re very gentle in their movement of the slide, the (unclear) the whole thing is that God gives particular things to particular type people and it’s so great, it’s tremendous. We have one girl called Rachael in Birmingham, she also sings very well but she doesn’t have this steadiness, this system properly built up as here, it’s tremendous, it’s tremendous. I’m sure you will bring a big name to Sahaj yoga one day, (applause) I’m very sure. Now I want to know, did he improve his voice after coming to Sahaj yoga?

(Yogi: Most certainly Mother, it’s a completely different voice)

Shri Mataji: Same with Christine you know. Christine never used to sing so well, her voice has become so melodious, and I asked her, how is it you started singing so well, she said this is after Sahaj yoga. Suddenly her voice, isn’t it Christine, has become so sweet. It’s so beautiful, so that’s what Sahaj yoga is going to give you, that’s great isn’t it, great? May God Bless you.

How are you, what’s the matter, why you crying all the time? You never used to cry before. I have seen you twice crying (laughter). Why what’s the problem?

(Yogi: It’s not a problem really, it’s a sadness, it’s out of joy Mother)

Shri Mataji: I know it was beautiful, it’s beautiful. What happened Andrea?

(Yogi: Nothing; she wanted to sing with Herman Mother) (laughter)

Shri Mataji: You also wanted to sing? They are all going to be great musicians, great, promises so many things, isn’t it? One thing I told you that, this western world is really enamoured by music. Sahaja  yoga if you have to spread you must work out, I have told Steve so many times. Steve you have to work out some compositions, just work it out. He said jazz all right, jazz is all right whatever it is, but you work it out, Is important. We must have a stage, otherwise without music you see we have to have books, we have to have music, these 2 things are very important. Unless and until that happens we cannot really establish ourselves in a big way, so music must be worked out, and see –  we have voices, all right.

(Yogi: One of the things on the list is correlation of the music and there is very many beautiful songs have been written by the people in San Diego and then we have written some songs with Herman)

Shri Mataji: Yeah, poetry, poems, you see should be sent, and should be composed, and we have in London also, some people who can do it, he sings also very well, what is his name is, Pedro, Patricia very good at piano, yeah. We have all these people and we should be able to manage something together, some sort of a coordinated thing. We should have a music concert or something for people which will create a kind of a very universal appeal. We should work it out.

(Yogi: Mother we can provide a concert that will include varying types of music, types of music that Sahaja yogis can perform, but all the music would be with a feeling about it, a hint about Sahaja yoga and many Sahaja yogis could get together for this concert, be publicised)

Shri Mataji: On this line I would suggest that Alexander has definitely taken some steps about it. He wanted Debu Chaudhury to come and help them. Debu Chaudhury is one of the musicians, who is an Indian musician but he can help you, he has guided some people. He has based some ragas, you see, and played in a English manner, into melodies placed into English manner, beautiful. He’ll arrange it, and also I had an idea about this that if I could request my sister to come down here, I mean she can teach you some Indian music to give you that bias. She has a big nose about things, she is rather, er, she says that if some organization invites me I’ll come and all that, but whatever it is, supposing she agrees to come then I can send her to America also. She can teach you music here and if you know Indian music you can sing any music because you see every note, everything is just put there, how to wobble it and how to take it round and how to mix it up and how to combine it, Indian music is very very vibrant music, anybody who knows Indian music can sing any song, anywhere in the whole world, there’s no problem because it is absolutely basics, and that’s what I feel that if she could agree or someone like that, who could come and teach you some Indian music for 6 months, you will be settled, and then you can sing whatever you feel like. The voices will open out, throats will open out, it will be very good, it’s a real exercise. I’ll see now if she could agree for a year or so to come here, for about 2 months here and 2 months there and a 2 months there, let’s see, will be good idea. So many things in the melting pot, lets see (laughter). All right that can be coordinated and found out if she agrees, maybe when I go in October, I will finalise her coming here. And if Debu Chaudhury agrees he can help us also, so on music we can do a lot. Give me your ideas, write to me what you gather, whatever you gather together from different people, let me know.

(Yogi: Will send you tapes Mother too.  Would that be good idea to send you tapes of the songs, we have recording equipment)

Shri Mataji: Yes you do that, that’s a very good idea, very good idea, send me tapes and things. But it should be for public appeal. You see it should be for a public appeal. You see what these people have such a public appeal they just shout, scream that’s all. There’s nothing beautiful about it, but they get such a public appeal you see. Shake, do all kinds of things, and just appeal to the people, there’s nothing really very deep in it, you can achieve it.

(Yogi: There’s a whole section of people, of listeners in America who are, it’s quite a popular section, amount of music, but it’s not that really horrible kind of pop music, where they are listening to something more serious

(Yogi: but listening to serious message in the music)

(Yogi: serious, more creative music, and it’s actually popular in terms of selling a lot of records too)

Shri Mataji: I mean you mean the Jazz?

(Yogi: Well, not just jazz but music that’s influenced by all different styles)

Shri Mataji:  All right, so you just make some like that, let’s see, you have to be a great composer, isn’t it and musicians, of everybody has to do that, so just aspire it, ask for it, the whole of the powers of Saraswati will be at your disposal, whatever you want

(Yogi: We have a song for you. Would you like to hear it now?)

Shri Mataji: All right, I will hear


Shri Mataji: Wonderful, beautifully done (clapping) very well written, composed everything, beautiful, very nice

(Yogi: We have so many tremendous musicians in Sahaja yoga Mother)

Shri Mataji: You have to just coordinate, may God bless you.

(Yogi: Through Boston through, via New York)

Shri Mataji: Really, May God bless you. It’s very good and Nick has written very beautiful words I should say, beautiful. It’s beautiful and we have a very great director of music is Brian, is very well known you see. And, er, he’s done some very good music things, but I don’t know we do not have a very common sort of thing, some place where we could do it together, but next year when I come for our programme I will send Brian over, before that, and I hope before that we’ll have some nice programmes on the stage, before I arrive so that people know about my coming

(Yogi: Mother, Brian was with us in southern California and everybody there, he taught them how to sing in the correct way that all the songs that they have in Australia, so everybody there sings the way he taught them)

Shri Mataji: Good, he is very great, I must ask him to come down here, he is in New Zealand working it out. He is such a simple hearted person you know he felt very sad because he played into the hands of Patrick, and he was very nervous about it, but thank God it’s over now and he is all right. He’ll come down, I must see that he comes here and really puts you up and then you can have some sort of a performance even before I come; he can do that. May God bless you. Thank you very much, thank you very much for the nice music and for everything that was so beautiful. So nice meeting you all. I go with a heavy heart, and a very light head because it’s all opened out, all your Sahastrars are open, that’s the biggest thing that should happen, and by God’s grace I am sure one day all of you will rise to that top level, that the whole world will be able to see the lights which are put up, through Sahaja yoga. May God bless you. 

Hah! Another thing I must tell you, there should be no misunderstanding about my staying in any place or such. I heard that Christine was little nervous, she said ‘Mother you should have stayed here, people may think that we kept you away’, but I must tell you this is everything I decide, nobody can decide for me, and in any place like that, in any place, I never stay in any seminar or any place. As far as possible, I go for a day only, the reason is I’ll tell you, like yesterday you know, day before yesterday we had a puja and yesterday I worked for hours together. I must have gone to rest about 5 o’clock, I was working inside the room, when I came out I was working, again I went in. So your Mother also requires some rest isn’t it? So when I am with other people, then naturally, you see, it’s my fault, it’s my own fault, I cannot control myself (gentle laughter), I’m glad now. I go to everyone, I must find out what’s wrong with you Judy, what wrong with you, what’s wrong with you. I must find out the children, I must get them together, they must bring them along, call them, I go on cleansing, cleansing, cleansing, even, once I sat down for 9 hours continuously, and then I realized that I am doing it too much and I must live in good health if I have to help everyone, and that’s how I always do like that, and you must give me that much freedom to decide. So I told Christine whatever pressure you put on me, I’m not going to go anywhere unless and until I want to go, and you should not force me anything like that. I request you not to feel bad, it was all my decision, I told her that I will stay with you, not for any other reason but for one reason that, with all of you I get dragged into completely, my whole concern is you and I just don’t bother as to what time it is. Now see I am sitting and talking to you (laughter) and I don’t feel like leaving, so this is what I have to tell you, that this only one thing I have to think that  I have to live longer, I have to be healthy, I should not be so much in trouble. Another thing is that I had started suffering from terrible diarrhorrea and then the doctors told me that I should not travel by car much, not good for you, and that’s what I have to look after myself little bit, for your sake. So you shouldn’t mind all these things and these little little things should not come into your mind, that’s what I told her not to think like that. Nobody will think like that, it’s I who decide, no-one decides. You see I am a very difficult person but I do it in a way that you don’t know, I do it the way I want to do it and whatever I do is for your good, only for you, all right? May God bless you

(Yogi: Om twameva sakshat Shri Mahalaxmi, Mahasaraswati, Mahakali, Trigunatmika, Kundalini sakshat, Shri Adi Shakti Mataji, Shri Nirmala Devi namo namaha.  Om twameva sakshat Shri Kalki sakshat, Shri Adi Shakti Mataji  Shri Nirmala Devi namo namaha, Om twameva sakshat Shri Kalki sakshat Shri Sahasrara Swamini, Moksha Dayini Mataji, Shri Nirmala Devi namo namaha, Shri Nirmala Devi namo namaha, Shri Nirmala Devi namo namaha, Shri Nirmala Devi namo namaha,)

Shri Mataji: May God bless you, may God bless you, Herman you have that shawl for yourself as a present for a beautiful music, all right? May God Bless you

(Yogis: Shri Mataji, we the Sahaja yogis of the world, desire and pray for your good health, Shri Mataji we the sahaja yogis of the world desire and pray for your good health, Shri Mataji we the Sahaja yogis of the world desire and pray for your good health, Amen)

Shri Mataji: Thank you, thank you very much, thank you

Shri Mataji: Beautiful flowers!  Thank you very much

(Yogi: The red roses are from the 4 Australian people you going to marry in India)

Shri Mataji: Great, great, may God Bless them, 4 red roses.So we were, today, I mean I must say I am very happy, extremely happy and joyous because I feel that yesterday’s puja has done wonders. For the first time in the west, my vibrations were sucked so well, I had no problem (applause). Except, when you were doing the puja the Left Vishuddhi was just like a stone, and then afterwards when I said that you have no business to be guilty the whole thing cleared out, so now the only problem you people will have is of left Vishuddhi, and somehow if you could get rid of that, it’s going to be very fine for all of us, so this Left Vishuddhi problem, should be got rid of immediately, as soon as possible and it’s very easy. It’s just a myth, very mythical thing, go on telling yourself I am not guilty, enjoy this, enjoy that, the whole world is created for my enjoyment, why should I be guilty? Count your blessings, and then you will be happy, because if you go on feeling guilty, kundalini can’t help you, I mean I found it difficult yesterday but after puja it cleared out, because when I told you that, but you tell yourself, you don’t need Mother to tell you that, isn’t it? You have to work it out that way. Second thing, discussing with Dr. Worlikar and Danny and all that, all of you, about the money problem, I told them to one day, that, supposing I want to come next year to do a public programme here, best thing would be you start accounts, you see, you can start it in my name and keep the cheques books with you. But because it is in my name you cannot use the money, you go on accumulating it and when I come here, then we will release, the money, then we’ll release the money, that’s what we do in India also. You keep the cheque books with you but you cannot sign and I can sign but I have no cheque book so we check each other (laughter, applause). So there should be one account, in different places you can have, just one for the programme that we are going to have next year from Mother too, and one account should be ad hoc sort of thing as we have in India also, ad hoc, that you have anything, you want to have a programme of your own and you want to hire a hall or you want to have anything, picnic or anything, you have ad hoc arrangement for that, that’s a different one. But for a programme, public programme, we should have substantial money here so that we don’t have to take money from others when I come. Moreover, they will be willing to give but there should be some money coming from America and Canada also and if that is done then it’s easy also for others to contribute. The third thing we discussed about was that we should have some places here, like some people who can invest money into a building or something for the ashram, so I said I may be able to invest myself some money, let me see what are my bank accounts are like, I don’t know what is left in that, because the way I spend I don’t know, what’s left (laughter). Yesterday I spent about $1000 for the saris, I had one for the Sahaj Yogini’s in India, really, it was $1000 isn’t it?

(Yogi: Yes Mother)

Shri Mataji: $1000 yeah? So it was like that, so it’s all right, let’s see whatever is the situation, so you people in different centres should find out places where you think you can have an ashram and the 5% of the down payment as they call it here, has to be done, how much that, and those who are willing to invest that much money should be able to. But it should be a very cooperated thing that you work out, say it’s a New York for example New York, take any place like that, San Francisco or Los Angeles, anywhere, Santa Cruz, then the people there should find out how many will be willing definitely who are Sahaj yogis, to stay in the ashram, so that the person who invests money does not do it for a kind of a loss, so those who can form a group of people, then a house can be bought and a proper rent should be maintained and that’s the way anybody will have an incentive also to put the money there. So try to find out places, houses which are large enough, which need not be very posh or anything, but which are good houses, which you can use it for the stay of people there, and a community food and all that. And in the ashram you must be, because ashram is the place where you really develop that sense of cooperation, sense of collectivity, sense of roughing it out and this so called comfort of life which is just fossilized, will release a little more.  So that is a possibility in America very much, England was, I must say, the English are the great blessed people. Now we have 7 houses in London, which the co-op has given us about free, can you imagine? So they have no problem, so every country has it’s own style, and accordingly we should try to solve the problem. Like France has some problems, and we are trying to solve that problem, so every one of you should try to find out a way and method of establishing these ashrams fast, that’s the first thing. With that ashram if you want you can start a shop or something or a restaurant, whatever you want, but it should not a thing done through Sahaj yoga, it should be your own, it’s your private thing, you do it the way you like. But people can donate money for the ashram and you should pay back rent religiously and that is one thing we must understand that in money matters you should not play any hanky panky at all, that one has to pay so dearly, so dearly, that I’m shocked sometimes. So in money matters one should not, because I know of some people who did this and they have suffered a lot and I don’t want you to suffer physically and a person met with a accident who did that. So he was saved but he lost his leg and things like that can happen, so I would not like you, I don’t want to frighten, but do not try to play about with this religious money, be very honest, and meticulous. Do not waste money, is very dangerous. It will affect your parents, it will affect your children, it will affect everything. So be very very careful on that point, I have to tell you extremely, with great care and caution. That is you don’t understand because auspiciousness you don’t understand. It is inauspicious to play with God’s money, which is the work of God. For me what, everything is mine, I mean if I take away everything that you have, I’m not committing any sins because I’m sinless, but still how meticulous I am with money, you can ask people. Every pie that I spend of yours is recorded. Of course mine I don’t because that will embarrass me, but every account, everything is recorded if I spend the money and I see to it that I pay back. That’s what you have to be careful about, that don’t play about with money. That’s one thing I must warn you because this is really, you have entered into the Kingdom of God, and the laws of Kingdom of God are to be observed. Now we can say that all right, if you are not paying income tax to the government doesn’t matter in Sahaj yoga much, really I said doesn’t matter, though I would always like to pay, but doesn’t matter so much, but if you don’t look after the money that is collected for God then there is dangerous, so be careful. Secondly you have to be very careful about your chastity in Sahaja yoga, very important. Your chastity is extremely important, and you have to preserve your chastity more than anything else, because once you lose your chastity, you will lose all your powers. So that is a very important thing. Keep your eyes on the Mother Earth, when you walk. Try to train your eyes, be on the Mother Earth, treat every woman as your sister, that’s how you’ll work it out, then the things will come back, because that’s the power of Ganesha which we must achieve, innocence, and it will come, it works out. Ganesha was awaken within you, gives you that power. So try to understand this, for that you don’t have to exert much because you’ll see God helps you so much that you control everything in such a manner that you enjoy your chastity, you enjoy your generosity, you enjoy all your virtues. Anything extreme must be avoided in Sahaj Yoga, like I told people that we don’t believe in jogging, in the sense that people should not jog too much but it is not for the people who are needing a little exercise; they should do it. The people who are left sided must do some exercises and the people who are right sided should take some more rest.(laughter). Give rest to your brain, mainly the brain, you think too much, give up thinking. Right sided people should give up thinking, less of aggressiveness, less of organisation, organising things, organising others, better organise themselves.  So that’s how it will help you on the right side, and the left sided people should take some exercise and should put more effort to plan out and think, so there is a balance. But again one should not go to extremes, once you come to the centre when you are in thoughtless, you just don’t do anything, God is looking after you, He is thinking for you. He is the one who is planning so you don’t have to worry on that side. So it works out this way that to correct yourself, to give yourself a balance a little bit. The left has to go to the right and the right has to go to the left but when you come to the centre you steady yourself there, work it out and then you start growing. The growth is only when you are in the centre, neither on the right nor on the left, when you are in the centre the growth starts and that is how everything will work out in such a beautiful manner you yourself will be surprised how you have grown. This is the one point and the other which I must tell you, very important, is this the new people who come now, you do not know how far you have gone from the day you had started Sahaj Yoga. You have grown too much, it grows very fast, especially with a puja, suddenly you find you are pushed into it. Puja is something that really pushes people into it, and you are surprised how I am changed, how it has worked out, how it happened, but it is. When that such a thing happens to you, you must remember that others haven’t had this opportunity of the puja, they haven’t been in Sahaj Yoga so far, they have just now got realisation, so what should we do? We should be kind, compassionate, considerate, forgiving to them, and try to bring them along. Anything if you say it gently will be very much appreciated, even money matters I find if you are a gentle person, nobody feels hurt because people want to give but you should be gentle. So the gentleness must be used all the time, for telling about Sahaj Yoga. The gentler you are the greater you are in Sahaj Yoga, like a tree when it is laden with fruits it droops down, it becomes humble. In the same way, when you have got the fruits of Sahaj Yoga you humble down, that’s what one should know, the humility is one of the sign of yoga. And you will be surprised the way you will be able to manage, the play about, with your oneness is joyous absolutely, and you will feel your own powers within yourself, and a person who is powerful can only be compassionate, weak persons cannot have compassion, what is the non-violence of a weak person, he has to be jolly well not violent (laughter). But a strong person, because he is so strong, well he is not bothered. There’s a Chinese story, an interesting one, that there were 2 cocks who were going to be fighting in a cocks fight as they have it in China, and the King wanted to train them up. So somebody told them, told him, that there is a saint who will train up these cocks very well, so he went down to the saint and asked him ‘can you make them powerful?’ He said ‘Yes I can’. So after a month then he returned, he saw these cocks were standing, just like this, he said ‘What, they don’t even move?’ he said ‘That’s why, because they have so much power’. So they carried these 2 cocks to the arena and in the arena what do they find that everybody was fighting the cock and these stood up like this and all the cocks got frightened with their majesty and they all ran off. So that’s why, when you are a steady person, people know you are steady, they understand that you are great and they just look at you and they know you are there, the steadiness. The agitated person is a nervous person, a person who is frightened is also nervous but a person who stands up in steadiness is the one who is a Sahaj yogi. So I would request you to build up your steadiness first, do not criticize others. Do not also get angry with yourself, guilt is sinful, to feel guilty is sinful in Sahaj yoga. Forget the past, forget the past and that’s how you all will rise higher and higher you’ll know. Just see this tree, supposing this tree is on a wobbly  ground, it won’t grow, will it grow? Or if it is on a tilted ground, will it grow properly? How does it grow? When it is in a steady situation, so Sahaja yoga being the living process you have to steady yourself, that’s very important, steady yourself.And that steadiness will make you grow faster and faster, and you’ll be amazed at yourself. As it is you must be amazed, that you have come into a wonderful world yourself, enjoy. There is no frivolousness but mirth and frolicking of innocence. So that’s how we are going to organize our next programme, with respect, self respect. People should not say that Americans are no good (laughter). We have to have our self respect, we have to show that we are Shri Krishna’s special people and his 16,000 powers are to be awakened here and we are not going to beg from anyone. Why should anybody help us? And that’s how we will work it out, so  I don’t want you to sell your ornaments, sell your houses, do this do that, nothing of the kind. You’ll get it, you’ll get everything, you’ll get the money, you are just an instrument. You are just an instrument but just be an instrument of honesty. If you’re a miserly person neither you’ll get money nor you’ll give, it’s a vicious circle. So, any other question now? Somebody wanted to see me? Laurie, where is she? What do you want to say? Come forward.These insects are ( unclear) we don’t have them in India anywhere. I’ve never heard this sound anywhere, you went to India, Did you hear this? First I was not understanding, I thought something wrong with my ears (laughter). They must be all disturbed, I’m sure otherwise why should they make so much noise? I can’t understand insects don’t make so much noise all the time continuously

(Yogi: American bugs make loud noises (laughter)

muffled conversation with yogi

Shri Mataji to Yogi: Did you go to any guru or anyone?

(Yogi: Muktanada)

Shri Mataji: Ahhh, you sit there on the ground. I would suggest put your left hand to the candle and right hand on the Mother Earth, on the Mother Earth.  Can you put it down for her little bit or can you have any other candle for her?

(Yogi: There is no candle)

Shri Mataji: Those who have been to gurus raise your hand. Most of those they feel guilty,  1,2,3,4,5,6 Ladies who have been to gurus, please don’t feel guilty, raise your hands. All right. Now this is the way to do it, those who have been to gurus, whether you are thin or fat makes no difference, you put your hands, (Marathi). Just see the movement of the candle, there is no air coming from this side. Cool is coming?  Put your thumb, full hand, open full hand, now what is the mantra? Mantra is ‘I am my own guru’

(Yogi: The eggs of these insects hatch every 17 years, and they only just started hatching)

Shri Mataji: And they’re hatching now?

(Yogi: Takes 17 years for these eggs to come out)

(Yogi: laid 17 years ago (laughter))

Shri Mataji:  (Marathi)  17th year must be because of the 16 years of Shri Krishna’s  avatanar (Marathi). And then they are quiet, is it? For 17 years they are quiet, but how many years do they do like this (laughter) 1 year? So this is the year they are doing?

(Yogi: This year this area, they come every year but eggs hatch every 17)

(Yogi: but in France is every day)

Shri Mataji: In India you don’t have them at all, I’ve never heard, it’s so silent. it’s so silent especially if you go in a forest in India and when there is a tiger sitting somewhere, so silent, immediately you can feel the silent presence, because he is the king you see, it’s a protocol. Not that he is going to hurt anyone. He may be eating his prey sitting down, but about a 1 mile area it’s  pin drop silent, even birds don’t twitter, nothing, and immediately you know there must be a tiger somewhere. See the presence of tiger, and when the tiger dies in the forest, actually they weep as if, everyone wails, you can feel it the tiger is dead.

Shri Mataji: Better now?

( Yogi: Shri Mataji: conversation unclear?? When the gurus come in India the dogs are silent) (long unclear passage about gurus and dogs not barking)

(unclear passage about Dharamsala and the Dalai Lama)

Shri Mataji: He is the worst of all. Now this Dalai Lama, is a fellow who once came to dinner with Lal Badhu Shastra who was the Prime Minister, and my husband was his secretary, and as his wife never used to go to any dinner party I was the one blasted. So Shastriji was a realized soul and he knew about me perhaps, so I was sitting next to him, so hot, just like an oven, I couldn’t bear it you see, I thought I would develop blisters, so I became very sort of fidgety. So Shastrji said ‘Are you feeling hot with this man? I’m also feeling it’  I said ‘ yes it’s very hot’. He said ‘All right’, so he asked one Sadarji (unclear name) who was the foreign minister, he asked him to sit in between me and, and the Sadarji was also feeling rather uncomfortable with this fellow- So that’s what Dalai Lama was, but what shocked me the most was, when I went to China they showed us the wealth of Dalai Lama, it was such a lot. His plate was real gold, his cup was real gold, he used to take bath in a big thing like that made of real gold, I mean if you see the value of the thing I cannot tell you how much it was and diamonds and pearls emeralds, everything, such a lot. I wouldn’t say it was more than four (unclear)or much more, but still he had all kinds of things, supposed to be a sanyasi and he used to drink because lots of drinking things there were all made of gold and (pali?) It was written the names written so Chinese could not have manufactured it, they had been accumulating it from those poor Tibetans and Tibetans are so poor they don’t even have proper clothes for themselves they cover themselves up with gunny bags and from them they used to extract this money, take all the money from them, all kinds of things and that’s how they have become so rich. And I was amazed to see and I verified it because may have been a propaganda but it was not so because pali and everything and it was all quite old pieces and all of them were there, so this is what this horrible Dalai Lama is, he is just talking big things you see. He is the biggest liar that you could think.  He has nothing to do with Budda, he is just anti Budda. You have to out with them.

(Yogi: Question why Mother Earth has created precious gems and what the real use of them is, what the proper use of gems? (not clear))

Shri Mataji:  She is a generous lady (laughter) and she wants to give you everything that she has, and she gives you gems and all the chakras that are within us have a gem with it so you know the chakras, what gems they have, you know or not? All right. In Mooladhara you have the coral, I think it’s written somewhere, coral. Then with the Swadishthana you have the topaz, the yellow topaz. Then with the Nabhi is the emerald. Then with the Heart is the ruby; Vishuddhi is the blue sapphire, blue sapphire, that’s why in India nobody wears it, very dangerous you know, Krishna can play tricks with you. Then with Agnya is the diamond and Sahasrara is a pearl.  So if you have a problem of  a particular chakras if you should get a good thing like that you can wear. Amethysts is Amethysts is one of the stones which is actually Mahamaya stone, you can call it, because Amethysts changes it colour, changes it’s colour and it’s from ruby which changes into blue, so it’s a Mahamaya, it is a combination of the Heart chakra and the Vishuddhi chakra, is the Mahamaya

(Yogi: ? unclear Opal?)

Shri Mataji: Vishnumaya.  I mean, cannot go onto details but most of them have some meaning

(Yogi: How about Lapis Lazuli?)

Shri Mataji: Lapis lazuli? Is not a very precious stone, Lapis Lazuli, is a healing stone because it represents the blood of the saint, that’s why, saints’ blood is represented in Lapis Lazuli

Shri Mataji: Come here. What’s the matter with your hand?

(Yogi: In my hand I had some stitches but they are out now and I could not take the bandage off)

Shri Mataji: No problem, I can work out through bandage

(Yogi: But my problem is I suffer bad depression. Depression for last 2 years, there’s just nothing I can do about it) (Some words unclear)

Shri Mataji: That’s easily curable, your depression can be easily cured no problem, all right, we’ll cure it just now, just now I’ll cure it. Now are you all right? All right. Done, all right, it’s all right now you go ahead, she has to work it out a little bit, that’s all. What happened? Something happened in your life? You went to see some guru or someone?

(Yogi: She lost her son, Shri Mataji (unclear)

Shri Mataji : Before that you had

(Yogi:  (unclear)I spent more time in hospital)

Shri Mataji: You’ll be all right, you see this country is very depressing otherwise for anybody who is spiritual, isn’t it, to begin with.  Like Modi, I’m telling him to come here and he says ‘No, no, no, nothing doing, I’ll lose my vibrations’, (laughing) it’s all right  (talking to Yogi: unclear)

(Yogi: I have to do something (unclear))

Shri Mataji: It will work out just now, just now it will work out  (Marathi)    mmmmmm  working out, your hand is all right

(Yogi: my hand is OK)

Shri Mataji: All right, you can sit down there put your left hand towards that and right hand on the Mother Earth, it will go away, just now. Now what is it? Come here

(Yogi: I’m in a situation with my parental family and conflicts that I feel is very dangerous and I need both some guidance and also I  feel I need  protection and (unclear) both my  sisters have become psychotic, neither of them were at Mother’s funeral, Mother died in spring, there’s just a lot of stuff still going on (some unclear conversation))

Shri Mataji: What are they doing, your sisters?

( Yogi: my sisters,  I can see that it’s part of a broader situation where people tried to get money that we were supposed to have inherited and because it was (unclear) and it was more than they could handle, but it also feels like a very evil situation)

Shri Mataji: Who are these people?

(Yogi: my nephews, have kind of taken over (unclear))

Shri Mataji: Whose children?

(Yogi: My oldest brother who died, his children have a lot of problems, so I think it’s all in the family dynamic that it’s just sort of (unclear))

Shri Mataji: They are trying to black magic

(Yogi: I don’t know. They are trying. My brother he died about 20 years ago (had issues with?) my father he didn’t resolve (unclear). His children are sort of playing things out in a way that just seems to be evil (unclear)

Shri Mataji: What are they doing?

(Yogi: Well, they signed (unclear) and then they foreclosed on some property, we had Internal Revenue Service (?) bank accounts not a situation must be avoided hard to knowhow to (?9 something. We have to do illegal things, feels like that’s not what you’re exactly supposed to be doing is it (unclear) for a spiritual person..

Shri Mataji: Just beat them with shoes, write down their names, beat them with shoes, any problem beat them with shoes, that will work out, give them a bandhan it will work out, all right? And discuss it with other Sahaj yogis, it will  all go into their awareness, it will work out, don’t you worry, legal Is very easy very, all right? May God bless you

Shri Mataji: Towards that candle, properly. Now Michael is all right, he’s all right (talking in Marathi).   Somebody has a left problem, if you are kind to that person then that person sits on your head. If you have a right problem then (unclear) If you are a right person right sided then treat with kindness milder (?) if you are left sided be strict. That’s how.

(Yogi: talking about children (unclear))

Shri Mataji: For 5 years you have to be very strict with children, don’t pay over attention, don’t try to show that you can’t exist without them, keep them in proper bounds (?) discipline them, properly, but respect, and as they grow tell them that you are friends, you are great, you should do this and you should do that, and you should not behave like an ordinary person you’re extraordinary. You are special, but you must behave first of all, that’s the main thing, not in demanding things but how you behave is important. There’s a little booklet that has come out for the children, I hope you get that from London, they have got it.

( Yogi: One more question is;  what do you think about, if you have small children going on the tour to India?)

Shri Mataji: Difficult just now, but maybe this year I’ll just see what we can do about it. We are thinking of arranging something in Bombay where children can stay with someone till you tour about, so that you will be much more free, might be able to arrange it.  Try to come to Switzerland if possible, but best is to come to India, you see if you can, there’s nothing like it. We’ll try to make some better arrangements this time if possible

(Yogi: Bolo Shri Radha Krishna, Shri Adi Shakti Shri Mataji Shri Nirmala Devi ki jay,  bolo Shri Viratangana Swamini Mataji Shri Nirmala Devi ki jay, bolo Shri  Vishnumaya Shri Mataji Shri Nirmala Devi ki jay

Shri Mataji: I’ve met all of you and I hope you are all very happy with yourself  (laughter, applause)