At the human level we try to seek Truth through our mental projection

Geneva (Switzerland)

1984-08-28 1 Geneva PP 1, 57'
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Public Programme Day 1. Geneva (Switzerland), 28 August 1984.

I bow to all the seekers of Truth.

I’m sorry, I could not come yesterday and I hope today we’ll be able to do something for ourselves.

When we talk of Truth, we have to know that at the human level we try to seek Truth through our mental projection or through our emotional understanding. The other day I met the president of the Jungian Society in America and he told Me that he was sitting on a cut trunk of a tree and he just thought that, “I should try to know the roots and thus I will know the sap.” I said, “How will you know the roots when you have just mental capacity?” He said, “With mental capacity you can go down into the subtler side and go down and you can understand the roots.” I said, “By your mental projection it’s all imaginary knowledge you have.” So to get to the roots you have to become a subtler personality.

So one must know that Truth is much subtler than our gross understanding and to know the Truth we have to be subtler personality. At this gross level we understand what our ego tells us, or our mental projection tells us, or our conditioning tells us. And so when we read too much about the subtler life, we think we know what subtle life is. In the tradition of spirituality, we can say that the earliest books were Upanishadas which were written, they say, written about 8000 years back. As it is there is controversy about the times. But in that time, which was just written that you cannot get to your Self by thinking or by reading. The Holy Spirit within you has to take you to your Self. In Sanskrit it is called as the Shakti. Now this was 8000 years back written down, that means so many thousands of years back it was just remembered by the mouth and by the mouth it was carried to other people.

We come down through the tradition up to the say, time of Christ. Christ has said that, “You have to be born again.” So now some people certify themselves ‘born again’ and accept the situation thinking that they are ‘born again’. But what has happened to you by doing that? They might say, “We lead a good life” or “We lead a very simple life”, but does that mean that you have become reborn? For this, I would say, the latest of all was Jung who said that, “When you will be reborn, you will jump into the collective consciousness.” 8000 years back it was said, “What we are seeking is our wholesomeness”, that we are part and parcel of the Whole and we are trying to feel that wholesomeness. Now you can see clearly how Jung who just got his Realization and said that, “We have to become collectively conscious”, though his experience was, I should say, limited and was not so much decoded.

But when Christ said, “You are to be born again”, Nicodemus asked Him, “Do you mean to say I have to enter into the womb of my mother?” So Christ said, “No. You – if you are born of the womb of your mother, it is the flesh which gives birth to the flesh, but Self is born out of the Holy Spirit.” All these things He told but, somehow or other, all that was changed into something very mental. All such incarnations who came on this Earth, I find, they are all converted into a mental dogmas.

Like Buddha came in, what did He say, “You must have your Self-Realization” – to such an extent that He didn’t want to talk about God. He said, “First, you must have your Self-Realization”, because if you talk of God, everybody starts thinking he’s become God. If you mentally believe that you have become God, then what can you do to such a person? We suffer from such ego that we are not even aware of it and this falsehood start building up into ourselves and we really believe that we have become a Realized soul.

So there are many ways of believing into falsehood about ourselves. You are to be born again by the Holy Spirit. At this point only I have to say that Christ cannot be contained in the book like Bible. First of all, His life was only of four years and they were not people understanding the way you are understanding today about Self-Realization. To understand His great life you have to go to other great scriptures to find out what they have to say about Him. But when the Christianity started it tabooed everything else, like any other religion. If you go to Islamic people, they have tabooed everything else. Same with the Buddhist and Hindus, and Jains – and all of them just tabooed to see other side. Then how can you see the wholesomeness of God? You should not be like the horses with blinkers. All these religions cut down the freedom to a human mind to understand what is in the wholesomeness of Divine.

In India, also, we had three types of people, we should say. The one category was which preached about the God which was formless, which was the Vedas were written about it. The another one was the – we can say a sect or people who were following the life of devotion and dedication, Bhakti, as like in Christianity, and like Buddhist – they didn’t believe in God or we can call it the one who believed in the formless God, formless energy. But whatever they believed into they could not live up to it. Like Christ has said, “Thou shalt not have adulterous eyes.” Not only, “Thou shalt not commit adultery, but thou shalt not have adulterous eyes!” That means your eyes should be innocent, that means you have to be a virtuous person, that you should lead a life of innocence and purity. But what kind of life people are leading today? If you go to America, you’ll be shocked to what level Christians have gone, to such immorality.

I Myself took My birth in a Christian religion. And I felt that they live on mental projections only. They will go and pray in the church, wear nice dresses, pray in the church, come back home and have a keep. There’s nothing inside them, very immoral life, inauspicious. In America, if you go, you’ll be surprised: it’s full of violence, full of immorality, perversion. You can’t understand how people have gone that far when they believed in Christ! Apart from what we see there, is the greatest thing is that they talk like Freudian Christianity, can you imagine? What a contrast! And Freud was anti-Christ, you can see clearly! He never talked of purity, did he? But we believed in him, because it suited our weaknesses. If we live with our weaknesses, we’ll become weak. These are all self-destructive elements. They destroy our nation, they destroy our fibre, they give us diseases, they torture us inside. The whole society is filled with such torture, there is no peace, there’s no love. Whatever love is there is nothing but a sex point. It is ridiculous sometimes to see human beings of that great height that God has created, has come down to this low level. But when we think about that, what we do is to feel guilty and this is the worst mental projection we have. That is not the way we are going to face reality. To face reality we have to, first of all, know that God is compassion, that He is the source of compassion. We cannot understand that, because we cannot be that compassionate as He is. If any person goes and does some missionary work, we think he is very compassionate. But God’s compassion flows spontaneously, it is overflowing. It flows, when it flows it comforts you, it purifies you, it makes you blossom into the beauty of reality. You are no more an ugly personality. You are no more a person who hates others. You automatically become a person who is virtuous, who is beautiful. This has to happen if you are a Realized soul. It is not that when you are a Realized soul you are making bad money, you are taking money from people like so many gurus do.

It is very difficult to understand how the modern mind has gone so much away from reality. But in reality you are glorified by God. You are the highest of highest. You have to realize your value, first of all, and then you will understand that, “I was a diamond lying in the mud”. But the modern mind doesn’t want to face it, face the inner beauty, face the inner subtler being which is innocence, which is harmless. The compassion of God is all-pervading but is all said so far nobody has felt it before. We have heard that God has His compassion, all-pervading power around us. And we believe into it, but we don’t believe that we are the ones who have to receive it. We don’t believe that we have been evolved only to achieve that. It doesn’t go into our understanding that we are special people, a special category. And it is your right to get it, but not with a fight, not with aggressiveness, but with humility. Is your own and within yourself. Whatever just now Arneau has told you is the knowledge of the roots and these roots start enacting when the power of Love falls upon it. Unless and until we feel this power within ourselves and without, we cannot improve this world. It is in darkness, we do not know how we are related to each other. We don’t know what relationships we have with each of us. But when there is light, we know how we stand with each other. First time after Realization you start really enjoying another person. You just feel the fragrance of the other flower. Before that you – whatever knew about that person – was only a mental projection: how the dress was, how he walked, how he talked. But we are nothing but the Spirit which is the Truth. The Truth is that we are part and parcel of the whole and the Spirit is the one which is collective being. That means it connects you with everyone. When in your awareness, in consciousness you become the Spirit, you feel the Spirit of another person and this Spirit is the power behind this love. This Spirit, once you feel it, you never change your ideas. In this Spirit you see the Truth, you see the beauty of another person, you enjoy the love of another person. And this Truth – that you are a part and parcel of the whole – fills you up with tremendous security. Supposing, I try to sooth My finger here, am I doing any obligation on that or any missionary work? I’m just soothing Myself. When everybody become your Self, then whom are you curing, whom are you helping? They are part and parcel of your being.

But the Spirit awareness must be achieved. But the word ‘achievement’ is a – not a very good word, I should say. (Shri Mataji laughing) As soon as you say ‘achievement’ people start swimming about it. They want to put in some effort, “Now, how to achieve Spirit?” There are people in the market, they’ll say, “All right, give me so much money, I’ll give you the Spirit.” I was amazed, there was a BBC fellow who came to see Me an interview and he said, “How – This won’t work out. Sahaja Yoga won’t work out if you do not take money. For an Anglo-Saxon mind it cannot be congenial.” (Shri Mataji laughing) I told him for half an hour, “How much are you going to pay for it? It is invaluable.” He would not understand. Then I asked him one question, “How much did you pay to Christ? You gave Him the crown of the thorn.” That’s what it is – that when a human mind starts thinking about reality, he doesn’t accept the reality but he sides with the falsehood. Because it is easy to live with falsehood at that stage than to live with reality, because it is unknown.

But I have to just tell you very lovingly and with great request that you have to just enter into that and you will see that reality is the most beautiful thing that gives you all the security that you want. There are people who are Sahaja Yogis here, they can tell you their stories how they have been protected all the time, guided and counselled by the Divine vibrations. You really become like a computer and you are amazed how much knowledge starts flowing through you because Spirit is the Knowledge. Many journalists asked Me, “Mother, do you have all scholars as Your disciples?” I said, “No, I have very simple people as My disciples.” – “But how do they talk like scholars?” I asked them, “To what university did Christ go? To what university Khalil Gibran go? To what university Buddha went? To what university Rama went? To what university Krishna went? How are they such great scholars that even thousands of years have passed and their knowledge is still to be learned in the universities?” (Shri Mataji laughing) Such original power came from where? It was not borrowed from books. So many people who read Gita sometimes think that they have become Shri Krishna. This is all mythical. By reading anything, by thinking that you are a great scholar you do not become the Spirit. If you are a true seeker, then seek what you are seeking. How to seek is the problem again because we must know how to swim across. Just stay where you are. Don’t go to extremes. Like people in their Bhakti go to one extreme and in their rituals they go to another extreme. First get the connection! Are you connected? Or you are just believing that you are connected because you have read some book or you are following some cult, or you are following some guru, because he said that your name should be such and such, do you believe in that kind of a thing? What have you achieved by that? Like those who say who are ‘born again’. Can they give Realizations to another? Do they know about the chakras? Do they know how to cure the chakras? Do they know how to cure people and to tell them about what it is, the knowledge? Have they become their own gurus? Can they take guidance from themselves? Have they felt the All-pervading power of God? Or they are just with their ego pampered, living in a false life?

The main thing is you have to face yourself with complete honesty. You are a seeker of ages and you have to be fair with yourself. You have not to identify yourself with your ego or with your conditioning or anything whatever one tells you, even what I am telling you. You have to get your Realization first, you have to have your experience first, then you start feeling, as he told you, the cool breeze on your hands.

Now when people come to Me, they doubt, I like it. That means that the people who are coming to Me are free people. But you must keep your mind open: if you are a scientist, then you must not close your mind, because I have to gain nothing out of you. I have come to give you what is your own, which is inside yourself, that is just to be exposed, and is your own, is your own property. Just enjoy!

But as the BBC fellow told Me, that in the Anglo-Saxon mind one cannot understand such a personality, that you work like this only for the love. You cannot do anything else, but to feel the concern. Like if a drunkard is taking a drink, he wants to enjoy with others. In the same way the one who is drinking the nectar of the beauty of God’s love wants to have others to enjoy it. Such a person cannot be selfish, such a person cannot be without virtues, such a person has to be an innocent person leading a pure life. Such a person cannot be materialistic, buying Rolls Royces, such a person cannot take money from you. We have examples and examples of saints, but the kind of saints we have in modern times are so bewildering that I am Myself surprised, how people believe such depraved personalities. Is it that depravity is within us so much? But they are seekers, they are special category of people.

Very recently, a great poet William Blake has written that, “The men of God will become the prophets and they will have powers to make others prophets.” That time has come today. But I must say that for this we need some traditional background. Our traditional background has been very much diverted to materialistic life. Now when people talk that, “Mother, when we get Realization, are we to leave our family, are we to leave our houses – homes?” What do you have to leave, when you are not holding anything? When you are detached from within, what is there to leave: whether you live here or there makes no difference! Such a person becomes a king, he doesn’t bother about any comforts or anything. If he is a king he lives like a king, if he is a beggar he lives like a king as a beggar, too. And that is what is to be seen in within yourself: are you detached or you are just proposing or you are showing off that you are a detached personality.

Now the problem is that we have understood whatever so far about spirituality through our mental projection. But Adi Shankaracharya has clearly said, [Na yoge, na sankhyene ? HINDI ?] – by all these discussions, talking and behaviours and by wearing dresses and dancing and jumping – but through the grace of the Mother, means the Holy Spirit, means the Kundalini that has to work out, only has to work out, it works out, and when it works out you feel it. I don’t have to tell you, “Don’t do this and don’t do that.” You are not to be told about Ten Commandments anymore, because you become that, you become the Ten Commandments yourself. When you meet someone, they see the kind of a magnetism you are, and the lives change, not mental projection but automatically through vibrations. Unless and until you become the Spirit, that fragrance, that light cannot be emitted out.

CD 2 :

And you become on top of the world, everything sorts out. Because the mental mind does not know the powers of God’s love, it tries to solve problem by its own projection. But when the dynamic mind starts working for you, all your problems solve. You must talk to Marie-Martine about herself, (Shri Mataji laughing) how her life transformed, I never told her anything. This is what has to happen, that we are beautiful things, just wasted. Only thing we have to be honest, and it works out.

The Spirit is within your heart, and the Kundalini is in your triangular bone – called sacrum, means ‘sacred bone’. This Kundalini has to rise and give you your Realization. Now once you get it, you can give it to others. Yesterday so many of you got Realization, touched it. But when you get your Realization, you just don’t become suddenly Christ. You have a problem! (Shri Mataji laughing) So the Kundalini goes and attends to it. Only thing you have to learn how to help and cooperate with Her. Even a child knows that. Like this light has to be put on, you have to just switch on, finished! But that does not mean there is no power behind it, there is no organization behind it, there is no history behind it. But you don’t have to worry about that, you have to just know the buttons. And at length I’m happy Arneau has told you all about it, about the whole instrument within us.

Now this, as I told you I have been many a times to Geneva before and I have given many lectures and there are many Sahaja Yogis in Geneva itself, which is a very international place. So, there is no end to it, but I’ll be giving lectures now in Lausanne and I am touring the whole of Europe this year again. I would like you to ask Me some questions but don’t be aggressive with Me, it is not going to help you much. You have come here to get something that is your own, so please try to get it.

May God bless you!

If you have any questions, please ask.

Aside: For about five minutes let’s have the questions, and then we’ll start the Realization. That’s all.

Is it something important, Madam? All right, what is it?

What’s she saying?

Man’s voice: It’s the first time she’s heard mentioned Freud being the anti-Christ?

Shri Mataji: Of course, I mean you use your brains, you’ll find! Absolutely, how harm he has done, what harm he’s done. You know, I know of a family who were in a commune of Freudian theories. The whole family is ruined, husband, wife, children are ruined, they are in a mad house, when I inquired about the commune people, all of them are mad: if he was not anti-Christ, how could that have happen? I mean, it’s devilish, it’s devilish you see to challenge the purity of mother’s love, it’s devilish! But do you know he was very active in Austria, and Austria we are at least three times more people there, and when I said he is anti-Christ they clapped with joy. (Laughter) So I asked them what was the thing. They said, “We feel happy, at least You have said it now because we are so ashamed of having him here.”

Now – what is it? Let him ask, what is he saying?

A child’s voice, unclear, very far.

Marie-Martine repeats what the child said: He said that, “When we are a Sahaja yogi, it doesn’t behove us to think too much about ourselves.

Shri Mataji: About what?

Marie-Martine: About ourselves

Shri Mataji: (Shri Mataji laughing) It’s true. He is a Sahaja Yogi, you see, he is a born-realized child, so he knows we should not think too much about ourselves, we should think about others, it’s true! You must hear them, one better than the other, (Shri Mataji laughing) all these born-realized children are so great! You can’t imagine when you see their power!

My own grandchildren are all born-realized and one of them was – had gone to Ladakh and there she saw this Lama sitting, you see – all these Lamas there are another hocus-pocus. And there she saw him sitting there, and everybody touching his feet, you see. And then she saw her parents going and touching the feet of this man. So she couldn’t bear it anymore: she put back her hands and stood before him like this and she said: “By wearing this kind of a dress do you think you are a realized soul? Why do you want everybody to touch your feet? You have no right!” And she was hardly 5 years of age and the parents were very embarrassed. (Shri Mataji laughing & laughter)

There is another case when My another grand-daughter was sitting in a program in India where they had invited Me as a honoured guest for Ramana Maharshi’s birthday. He was a realized soul and I was there on the stage with others. Also there were others wearing those dresses of sanyasis and all that, sitting next to Me, one of them. So My grand-daughter couldn’t bear him any more, she was sitting in front. She got up from there, she said, “Grandma, who is this man with a [maxi ?] sitting there? Ask him to get out, he’s giving too much heat.” (Shri Mataji laughing & laughter)

And the another one was only three years. We went to the airport and she was doing on like this, like this. I said, “What are you doing?” She said, “I’m trying to tie up their brains. They are all scatter-brains here.” You find one better than the other. I mean, if you meet this gentleman, you’ll be surprised how they are matured and they understand, because they are realized souls and now they know what it means. Christ has said, “You have to be like children.” That means you have to be innocent. But the power of Kundalini is so great that you become innocent after Realization, you become innocent.

So now should we have the experience, madam?

Marie-Martine explains how to behave for getting Realization.

Shri Mataji aside: It is too much.

Very left sided.

One thing I have to tell you that to get Realization is not difficult, and to feel it also is not difficult. But then I have seen people feel so happy and joyous that they forget that they have to know all about it. Then when they suffer, they come back after a year or so. I would suggest that it’s like a small little plant you have to look after your Realization. Luckily we have a very good center here in Founex, and you are all welcome to come and know each and everything. By which you become masters, and you can give Realizations to others.

May God bless you all!

Aside: and put off the light, too much this light is too much.
It should be softer because it works on the Agnya this one.

It has nothing to do with your age, race, community, cast, nothing to do. It is [Nirlep ?] , it is unattached. Only thing it clears its way through, and very beautifully passes through your fontanel bone area. It creates no problem whatsoever because She is your mother, She is your individual mother.

Now please put both your hands like this, but very outset I have to request you that you should not feel guilty at all about anything.

Aside: so, it’s now too little, I must see the face, little more lights.

Not to feel guilty at all. Just before starting anything else, you just say: ‘I am a seeker and I am not guilty at all’, in your heart, with full confidence in yourself, you must have confidence. To feel guilty is very self-destructive.

Aside: have some more lights I must see their faces, otherwise. No, I mean little lights are necessary, in absolute darkness, I can’t see their faces. I need some light, I said, this one is too much on My face, but. Oh I see, all right. It’s like – all right. (Shri Mataji laughing)

Now, have full confidence in yourself. Now you have to put both the hands towards Me, remembering that the left hand represents the emotional side and the right side represents your action. So this is the desire, and this is the action. So first we have to desire, by this hand all the time like this. And then with right hand we ourselves enrich our different centers as I tell you, one by one, on the left-hand side. So now put your left hand all the time straight like this and the right hand the way I tell you. It’s very simple. Close your eyes please, not to open your eyes at all, at any cost till I tell you.

Now, first of all we have to put our right hand on our heart, in the heart resides the Spirit. Now you can ask Me a question which is a very fundamental question about yourself, to get some confidence within yourself, a question: “Mother, am I the Spirit?” Please ask this question three times: “Mother, am I the Spirit?” In your heart you ask.

Now, raise this.

Aside: So, should I go down? Most of the chakras are all right. All right.

Bring your right hand on the stomach on the left-hand side in the upper part of the abdomen; now press it there hard, on the left side of the stomach. Now this is the center of the Primordial Master, so if you are the Spirit, you are your own master. So please ask the question: “Mother, am I my own master?” Three times please.

Three times.

Now take the right hand down below on the stomach, on the left-hand side, on the lower part of the abdomen please. Here is the center of the technique, technique of the true knowledge. Yoga means ‘Union with the Divine’, and also it means the deftness, the expertise of handling the Divine. So at this point you have to say: “Mother, please give me the true knowledge.”

Aside: [inaudible]

Six times you have to say because there are six sub-plexuses to this center called Swadishthan chakra.

Better. (Shri Mataji laughing)

Now, after asking for this initiation of the knowledge, you have to put your hand with full confidence again on the upper part of your stomach on the left-hand side. This is again – is the center of the Primordial Master. So here you have to now assert with full confidence – without feeling guilty, without counting your so-called sins, anything – just you have to assert by saying: “Mother, I am my own master.” You have to say this ten times.


Now put this right hand again on your heart, again on your heart. Now with full confidence – on your heart please – now with full confidence again in yourself, without feeling guilty, without feeling guilty, I say three times, ‘Without feeling guilty’, you now assert by saying: “Mother, I am the Spirit.” Just say that – you are! This you have to say twelve times because there are twelve sub-plexuses to this center.

Don’t feel guilty, please.

(Shri Mataji is blowing slightly.)

I have told you that God is the ocean of love, He is the ocean of compassion, but above all, He is the ocean of forgiveness. So what can we commit that He cannot forgive in His own power of forgiveness. We should have faith in His great powers.

Now put your right hand again up on the base of the neck on the shoulder and hold it tight. This is the center of collectivity, where you find people who have got guilty mind, it’s difficult to raise the Kundalini. In this congregation the only problem I find that people are guilty for nothing at all. Forget about what I said to you, remember that you are the Spirit. Sixteen times now you must say in your heart: “Mother, I am not guilty”, and if you are still feeling more guilty, you’d better say it 108 times – to punish yourself.

Terrible! It’s terrible.

Aside: Hot. Hot.

Better now.

Now raise this hand on top or across your forehead please, across your forehead, and hold it tight. At this point please say that, “Mother, I forgive everyone”, from your heart you have to say. Because some people think that it is difficult, I would like to tell you logically, what are we doing when we say: ‘We forgive’? Please say: “Mother, I forgive everyone”, just say it three times, you’ll feel much lighter.


Now put your hand on your top of your head, on the fontanel bone area, press it hard. Now press it hard with your palm, central area where you had a soft bone in childhood and move your scalp in a clockwise manner. At this point I cannot cross your freedom, you have to ask for your Self-Realization, you have to say: “Mother, I want my Realization, please give me my Realization”, seven times.


Om sakshat Moksha Dayini

Om sakshat Moksha Dayini

Om sakshat Moksha Dayini

Om sakshat Sahasrara Swamini

Om sakshat Sahasrara Swamini

Om sakshat Sahasrara Swamini

Om sakshat Nirmala

Om sakshat Nirmala

Om sakshat Nirmala

(and then blowing strongly in the microphone)

Now put down your right hand and now place the left hand on top of your head, and again move the left hand in a clockwise manner saying: “Mother, I want my Realization, please give me.” Altogether seven times.

(Shri Mataji is blowing strongly again).

Now see, raise your hand and see if there is a cool breeze coming out. There might be some heat but first of all just see if there is heat or anything coming out of your head. Raise it about four inches, five inches. You can change your hand and see.

Ha, it’s there. All right?

Now put all your hands up like that and ask a question: “Mother, is this the breeze of the Holy Ghost?” Three times. Put them up like that.

Aside: Better?

Now just feel it in your hands, do you feel it?

Feeling guilty? (Shri Mataji laughing)

How many of you are feeling the cool breeze, raise your hands. Both the hands I would like to see. Practically all of them! Just higher, I can’t see all the hands. Good!

Now those who have not felt, shouldn’t get upset about it, just raise your hands, I would like to see, it should work out. Good! Now keep your hands up, so that somebody will attend to you. Have you felt it? Has she? Has she felt? Felt it. This lady, no, this one, she was shaking quite a lot, you go and ask her, this one without the thing. Another one.

Please keep your hands up till somebody comes and attends to you, and do it very quietly.

No, no, this lady…