Radio Interview, Vienna (Austria), 5 September 1984.
Interviewer: …But I don’t understand too much about that subject, that You as a lady are the teacher, not only the teacher, the founder of a yoga-theory. Is this in common in India, that also women do it? I read that You say that all comes from Mother Nature and therefore are there many women that were teachers in the case You are, or are You in this sense of course a unique person?
Shri Mataji: It`s a rather embarrassing question, isn`t it? I think a Mother can do a better job than anybody else, in this respect you have to have lot of patience with people, isn’t it. Say if it was Christ, he is very nice, he got crucified and finished the job. He was so disgusted and Shri Krishna would take his Sudarshan and kill people. But if you have to really emancipate people, if you have to really see that they get what they have, you have to have the real patience of a Mother.
Interviewer: So, can you give me some not private details of your family live. I read as well in your bio, that your daughters are married, and then you started to do what you are doing now. So, did you influence them as they were kids? When did you start to create your theory, your Yoga?
Shri Mataji: No, I was quite aware of it from my very childhood.
I took my birth in a Protestant Christian religion, my father, my mother were enlightened people, specially my father was a very enlightened person and actually he told me what sort of work I`ll have to do, because of the problems I`d have with human beings. He told me how human beings are, their problems, and what permutations and combinations they have. And then as the custom is in India I had to marry also and I married a very nice man, then I had children. I thought, that unless and until I reach a certain age, I should not start talking about it, because at a young age people may not take it seriously.
Apart from that I had another problem that I found that human beings have certain permutations and combinations of barriers and if I have to do an en-mass Realisation of people, I`ll have to overcome all those barriers at a shot, it means in one lecture I should be able to give Realisation to thousands of people and to work it out.
I started studying human beings, tried to see through the subtle mind how I could raise their Kundalini, how I could give them Realisation, what are their problems. It took some time for me to settle that. It simultaneously it worked out with the marriages of my daughters and they settled down.
So when in 1970, 5th of May, I saw the way things are happening and all that and I thought it is the right time to open that last part of it, which I had, the seventh chakra, and that then I did it, and that is the point, then I really mastered this en-masse Realisation, because so far it was a Realisation of one person or two persons. And my father told me that you are born really to give this en-mass Realisation to people.
So, you don`t start talking about it or otherwise you`ll create another Bible or Gita, what`s the use. You better work on the system, that you understand human beings properly, and you start en-mass Realisation, because if somebody is born on the
10th story, and somebody is born just on the first floor, you see, he cannot understand that person and he attacks that person. So the best is, that you raise them higher than from where they are so that they know at least that there is something beyond and the knowledge of Sahaja Yoga is not to-days, so I would not call it a founder it is in tradition of spirituality, it started long time back, the Realisation was given thousands of years back in India, but it was given to one or two persons. Even Christ at his time has done a very great work of resurrection and in that he has said, that you have to be born again.
It is not just a certificate, or a self-opinion that we are born again or an artificial baptism. It is a real happening, is a living happening within ourselves, which has to take place, about which, of course Indians know, because traditionally we are brought up that way. So, we know that this happens. The knowledge of the roots is more in India than
here, where it is more the knowledge of the tree we can say. Once this happening takes place you achieve that new dimension which we call as collective consciousness, by which we become collectively conscious. You can feel another persons centres and you can feel your own centres. If you know how to correct them and how you correct the centres of another person, mentally you can cure them, physically you can cure them, emotionally you can cure them and also they become the citizens of God’s domain.
Interviewer: So, back to your daughters. Do they both also practice Yoga?
Shri Mataji: No, they do not, because I never force them. I said, let them take their own time. In a way this is good because if my family gets involved, people might think, that it`s a family enterprise. They are very good girls, very religious, I should say, very balanced, very astute. My husband is also another very great man. But they are not doing Sahaja Yoga. I have kept them out, keep out of it but my grand-children are all born Realised, four of them are, and they are great Sahaja Yogis.
So these people are out for the time being, because it’s not proper to have them there. Also from another point of view, that when I’m dealing with my children, you see, they might think, they are the daughters of Mataji. So, she adores them, try to give them money, and do this, and it will be quite disturbing. So, I don`t want that. I just said that now they will come in any case to Sahaja Yoga, I know, but this is not the time. Let people first of all establish themselves properly, because, you see, it gets diverted the whole attention.
Interviewer: Who do you consider to be the right person for Yoga. Is there a group of people that`s easier to be caught by Yoga or is it for everybody, or is it a question of the personal education of the mind?
Shri Mataji: No, education is not at all required. The simpler you are, the better it is. Sometimes education can be a barrier, because you see you miss the point,as I would say, if you are to over-educated, but if you have that intelligence, that innocent intelligence, which is so sharp, it sees the point very easily. But a person who is over intelligent, can be ego-oriented, you see, and a person who could be say a very much conditioned and is ritualistic who has faith, blind faith in things is also difficult.
So you have to have a very simple person who is an open minded person. Scientific in outlook, I should say would be better but most of the people I meet are such kind are mostly in the villages in India or say places where not so much of so called artificiality sophistication is there, they are normal human beings, and they live down to earth.
Interviewer: Youth in Western Europe, in America is looking for a destination or for a destiny or not for a destiny, but they are seeking for the beyond. Doesn’t this also mean that Western philosophy doesn`t offer a proper way for the beyond for the way there as more as get in some case included in Eastern philosophy, if we say in general Yoga is Eastern philosophy. Do you see that it that the high industrialized western world has a lack of ways to offer to the mental human being?
Shri Mataji: That’s what I was telling the other gentleman also, you see, the Western civilization is like the tree outside, and the Eastern understanding of the Spirit is like your roots. So there is a continuity, I mean I cannot separate one from another, you need the tree and the tree needs the roots also. Roots must have the tree, you cannot do without it so, both things are complementary to each other. But when there is an imbalance, like a tree grows too much beyond, and it does not reach its source and then there could be a destruction. That’s what exactly has happened in the West, that you have overdeveloped yourself, and that over-development has led you to a problem. Because you exhausted the Mother Earth, exhausted your energies, exhausted your brains, everything is at an exhausted point. So now it’s better to get to the roots. So when you get to the roots you find, you have not reached the source. Where is the source? Source lies within yourself the human being himself and that source is to be found out. And that source is the Spirit, which all the great saints, all the great incarnations, in their own traditional way, has one after another have expressed and told. But everybody has misunderstood and made a mess out of it. We have organized God, we have organized Christ, we have organized Mohammed Sahib, we have organized everyone, but they are living things, you cannot organize them.
Interviewer: But if I’m a top manager of Ford, of IBM, am I really the person to do Yoga, doesn’t this mean, if someone part of this highly industrialised Western world, that the Eastern philosophy is offered me any time. Isn’t there an either or?
Shri Mataji: No, you become really dynamic because you become a witness of the whole play, you see this play, you become dynamic, there is no pressure, no tension, you understand everything in all dimensions. Apart from that you develop a balance, you know how far to go. I mean, you don’t overdevelop something. You develop a proper perspective, a balanced development and that is what is necessary. We have lost the balance.
Interviewer: Don’t you know many people who want more of yoga than yoga can give. So, doesn’t yoga also have in Western Europe a point that it doesn’t give to the individual that so, people think, well I can reach so many things by yoga and don’t realise, that they can just find themselves.
Shri Mataji: You see, Yoga is a big misnomer in the West people don’t know what yoga is. If you read Patanjali, it is said that you have to get to your Self-realisation and then how to grow in your Self-realisation. Once you start growing in your Self-realisation, you develop such a personality that you see the whole world as one. You reach your wholesomeness. And when you reach your wholesomeness the complete balance and the curative sense comes in. For instance, if there is a problem in my left finger, I try to rub it and I soothe myself, whom am I helping, whom am I supporting, what is a developing country, what is a developed country? You need something from the developing and you have to have the developed. So the whole thing is, that we have not got the wholesomeness. We are not integrated so far. It’s only possible when you reach that point, which is within us, which is collectively conscious, and that is the Spirit. Once you reach that point, you get collective consciousness, and when you become collective, you understand the wholesomeness of yourself.
So what people are seeking here in yoga, is really something that is brought from there by people who don’t understand. Yoga means union with the Divine, it means union with the Divine. When you become one with the Divine, the Divine starts flowing through you and you become part and parcel of the whole. You become. It’s not question of just taking a certificate. It’s not running on the street or standing on your heads, it’s not Yoga that you have to understand that, if there is a problem, a physical problem, what exercise particularly you have to do. But that, too, is only possible, when you get your Realisation.
Before Realisation you don’t know where you are sick. People don’t know, they go mad, but they don’t know that they are getting mad. So the craziness that you find or the imbalances you find is lost, because we have just turned our faces to that thing, called the Spirit. Because we could not reach there with our mental projection. So what we have to do, is to just take to this new dimensional approach by which you become that thing that you have to become, for which you have come on this earth, and that, if you get it, you are there.
You have so many dimensions. I mean now for me, you know, I am a wife of a person who has to shake hands sometimes with 600 people on one side and I have to deal with people on that level, and that sort of people I am also doing this and I have decorated my house. I mean, I can do 1000 and one thing and still I am very relaxed person. So what you have to achieve is everything what we talk of, we talk of democracy, we talk of communism, both are artificial to my mind, because unless and until you have something, how are you a capitalist? We are nothing. What do we have? We have nothing, but plastics. What do we have? You see, that you have something like I would say, I am a great capitalist because I have all the power and I am the greatest communist, because I must distribute. So, in the essence, I am the real capitalist and the real communist. So all your ideas are really the glimpses of that great truth. I am the greatest communist, I’m the greatest capitalist. All your ideas about economics. Economics is so sensible, that it says in general want is not satiable in particular they are. So that means the want, that means this matter is not going to give you satisfaction. So where is the satisfaction? It is in the Spirit. Everything aims at that point. One should see that point.
Interviewer: Thank you.
Shri Mataji: May God bless you.
H.H. Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi