Radio Interview

Vienna (Austria)

Radio Interview, Vienna (Austria),  5 September 1984.

Interviewer: …But I don’t understand too much about that subject, that You as a lady are the teacher, not only the teacher, the founder of a yoga-theory. Is this in common in India, that also women do it? I read that You say that all comes from Mother Nature and therefore are there many women that were teachers in the case You are, or are You in this sense of course a unique person?

Shri Mataji: It`s a rather embarrassing question, isn`t it?  I think a Mother can do a better job than  anybody else, in this respect you have to have lot of patience with people, isn’t it. Say if it was Christ,  he is very  nice, he got  crucified and finished the job.   He was so disgusted and Shri Krishna would take his Sudarshan and kill people.  But if you have to really emancipate people, if you have to really see that they get what they have, you have to have the real patience of a Mother.

Interviewer: So, can you  give me some  not private  details of your  family live. I read as  well in  your  bio, that  your daughters are married, and then you  started to do what you are doing now. So, did you influence them as they were kids? When did you start to create your theory, your Yoga?

Shri Mataji: No, I was quite aware of it from my very childhood.

I took my birth in a Protestant Christian religion, my father, my mother were enlightened people,  specially my father  was a very enlightened  person and actually  he told me what  sort of work I`ll  have to do,  because of  the problems I`d  have with human beings.  He told me how human beings are, their problems, and what permutations and combinations they have.   And then as the custom is in India  I had to marry  also and I  married a very nice man, then I had children.  I thought, that unless and until I reach a certain age, I should not start talking about it, because at a young age people may not take it seriously.

Apart from that  I had another problem that I  found that human beings have  certain permutations and combinations  of barriers and if I have to do an en-mass Realisation of people, I`ll have to  overcome all  those barriers  at a  shot, it  means in  one lecture I  should be able  to give Realisation to  thousands of people and to work it out.

I started  studying  human beings,  tried  to  see through  the subtle mind how I could raise their Kundalini, how I could give them Realisation, what  are their problems.  It  took some time for me  to settle that.   It simultaneously it worked  out with the marriages of my daughters and they settled down.

So when in 1970, 5th of May, I saw the way things are happening and all that  and I thought it  is the right time  to open that last part of it, which I had, the seventh chakra, and that then I did it,  and that is the  point, then I really  mastered this en-masse Realisation,  because so far  it was a  Realisation of one person or two persons. And my father told me that you are born really to give this en-mass Realisation to people.

So, you don`t start talking about it or otherwise you`ll create another Bible or Gita, what`s the use.  You better work on the system, that you  understand  human beings  properly, and  you start en-mass Realisation, because if somebody is  born on the

10th story, and somebody is born just on the  first floor, you see,  he cannot  understand  that person  and  he attacks  that person.  So the  best is, that you raise them  higher than from where  they are  so  that  they know  at  least  that there  is something  beyond  and the  knowledge  of  Sahaja Yoga  is  not to-days, so I would not call it a founder it is in tradition of spirituality, it  started long  time back, the Realisation was given thousands of years back in India, but it was given to one or two persons.  Even Christ at his time has done a very great work of resurrection and in that he has said, that you have to be born again.

It is not just a certificate, or a self-opinion that we are born again or an artificial baptism.  It is a real happening, is a living happening within ourselves, which has to take place, about which, of course Indians know, because traditionally we are brought up that way. So, we know that this happens. The knowledge of the roots is more in India than

here, where it is more the  knowledge of the tree  we can say. Once this happening takes place  you achieve that new dimension which we call  as collective consciousness, by  which we become collectively conscious.   You can feel another  persons centres and you can feel your own  centres.  If you know how to correct them  and  how  you  correct the  centres  of  another  person, mentally  you can  cure  them, physically  you  can cure  them, emotionally you can cure them and also they become the citizens of God’s domain.

Interviewer: So, back to your daughters. Do they both also practice Yoga?

Shri Mataji:  No, they do not, because I never force them. I said, let them take their own time.  In a way this is good because if my family gets involved, people might think, that it`s a family enterprise. They are very good girls, very religious, I should  say,  very balanced,  very  astute.   My husband is also another very great man.  But they are not doing Sahaja Yoga. I have kept them out, keep out  of it  but my grand-children are  all born  Realised, four  of them  are, and they are great Sahaja Yogis.

So these  people are out for  the time being, because  it’s not proper to  have them there.  Also from another point  of view, that when  I’m dealing  with my children,  you see,  they might think, they are  the daughters of Mataji.  So, she adores them, try to give  them money,  and do  this, and  it will  be quite disturbing.  So, I don`t want that.  I just said that now they will come in any  case to Sahaja Yoga, I know,  but this is not the  time.  Let  people  first  of  all  establish  themselves properly,  because,  you  see, it  gets  diverted  the whole attention.

Interviewer: Who  do you  consider to be  the right  person for Yoga.  Is there a group of people that`s easier to be caught by Yoga  or is  it  for everybody,  or  is it  a  question of  the personal education of the mind?

Shri Mataji: No, education is not at all required.  The simpler you  are, the  better  it  is.  Sometimes  education  can be  a barrier, because you see you miss  the point,as I would say, if you are  to over-educated,  but if  you have  that intelligence, that  innocent intelligence,  which is  so sharp,  it sees  the point very easily.   But a person who is  over intelligent, can be ego-oriented, you see, and a  person who could be say a very much conditioned and is ritualistic  who has faith, blind faith in things is also difficult.

So you have to have a very  simple person who is an open minded person.  Scientific  in outlook, I  should say would  be better but most of the  people I meet are such kind  are mostly in the villages in India or say places  where not so much of so called artificiality sophistication  is there,  they are  normal human beings, and they live down to earth.

Interviewer: Youth in Western Europe, in America is looking for a destination or for  a destiny or not for a  destiny, but they are  seeking  for the  beyond.   Doesn’t  this also  mean  that Western philosophy  doesn`t offer a  proper way for  the beyond for  the way  there as  more as  get in  some case  included in Eastern  philosophy,  if we  say  in  general Yoga  is  Eastern philosophy.  Do you see that it that the high industrialized western world has  a lack of ways to offer  to the mental human being?

Shri Mataji: That’s what I  was telling  the other  gentleman also,  you  see, the  Western  civilization  is like  the  tree outside, and  the Eastern understanding  of the Spirit  is like your roots.  So there is a continuity, I mean I cannot separate one from  another, you  need the  tree and  the tree  needs the roots also.  Roots must have the tree, you cannot do without it so,  both things  are complementary  to each  other.  But  when there is an  imbalance, like a tree grows too  much beyond, and it  does  not reach  its  source  and  then  there could  be  a destruction.  That’s what  exactly has  happened in  the West, that you have overdeveloped yourself, and that over-development has led  you to  a problem. Because  you exhausted  the Mother Earth,   exhausted  your   energies,  exhausted   your  brains, everything is at an exhausted point.  So now it’s better to get to the roots.  So when you get  to the roots you find, you have not  reached the  source.  Where  is the  source?  Source  lies within yourself the  human being himself and that  source is to be found  out.  And that  source is  the Spirit, which  all the great  saints,  all  the   great  incarnations,  in  their  own traditional way, has one after another have expressed and told. But everybody has misunderstood and made  a mess out of it.  We have organized God, we  have organized Christ, we have organized Mohammed Sahib, we have organized everyone, but they are living things, you cannot organize them.

Interviewer: But  if I’m a  top manager of  Ford, of IBM,  am I really the  person to  do Yoga, doesn’t  this mean,  if someone part  of this  highly  industrialised Western  world, that  the Eastern  philosophy is  offered me  any time.   Isn’t there  an either or?

Shri Mataji: No, you become really dynamic because you become a witness  of the  whole  play,  you see  this  play, you  become dynamic,  there  is no  pressure,  no  tension, you  understand everything in  all dimensions.  Apart  from that you  develop a balance, you know how far to go.  I mean, you don’t overdevelop something. You develop  a  proper  perspective,  a  balanced development and that  is what is necessary.  We have lost the balance.

Interviewer: Don’t you  know many people who want  more of yoga than  yoga can  give.  So, doesn’t  yoga also  have in  Western Europe a point that it doesn’t  give to the individual that so, people think, well I can reach so many things by yoga and don’t realise, that they can just find themselves.

Shri Mataji: You see, Yoga is a big misnomer in the West people don’t know  what yoga is. If you  read Patanjali, it  is said that you have  to get to your Self-realisation and  then how to grow in your Self-realisation.  Once  you start growing in your Self-realisation, you  develop such a personality  that you see the whole  world as  one.  You  reach your  wholesomeness.  And when you reach your wholesomeness  the complete balance and the curative sense comes  in.  For instance, if there  is a problem in my left finger, I try to rub it and I soothe myself, whom am I helping, whom am I supporting,  what is a developing country, what  is a  developed  country?  You  need  something from  the developing and  you have to  have the developed.  So  the whole thing is, that  we have not got the wholesomeness.   We are not integrated  so far.   It’s only  possible when  you reach  that point, which is within us, which is collectively conscious, and that  is  the Spirit.   Once  you  reach  that point,  you  get collective consciousness,  and when you become  collective, you understand the wholesomeness of yourself.

So what  people are seeking  here in yoga, is  really something that  is brought  from there  by people  who don’t  understand. Yoga  means union  with the  Divine,  it means  union with  the Divine.  When you become one with the Divine, the Divine starts flowing  through you  and you  become  part and  parcel of  the whole.   You  become.  It’s  not question  of  just  taking  a certificate.  It’s  not running  on the street or  standing on your heads, it’s not Yoga that  you have to understand that, if there  is   a  problem,  a  physical   problem,  what  exercise particularly you have to do.   But that, too, is only possible, when you get your Realisation.

Before Realisation you  don’t know where you  are sick.  People don’t know,  they go  mad, but  they don’t  know that  they are getting mad.  So the craziness  that you find or the imbalances you find is lost, because we have just turned our faces to that thing, called  the Spirit. Because we  could not  reach there with our mental projection.  So what  we have to do, is to just take to this new dimensional  approach by which you become that thing that you have to become,  for which you have come on this earth, and that, if you get it, you are there.

You have so many dimensions.  I mean now for me, you know, I am a wife of  a person who has  to shake hands sometimes  with 600 people  on one  side and  I have  to deal  with people  on that level, and that sort of people I  am also doing this and I have decorated my  house.  I mean, I  can do 1000 and  one thing and still I am very relaxed person.  So what you have to achieve is everything what  we talk of, we  talk of democracy, we  talk of communism, both are  artificial to my mind,  because unless and until you  have something,  how are you  a capitalist?  We are nothing.   What do  we have?   We have  nothing, but  plastics. What do we have?  You see, that you have something like I would say, I am a great capitalist because I have all the power and I am the greatest  communist, because I must  distribute.  So, in the essence, I  am the real capitalist and  the real communist. So all your ideas are really  the glimpses of that great truth. I am the greatest communist,  I’m the greatest capitalist.  All your ideas about economics.  Economics  is so sensible, that it says in  general want is  not satiable in particular  they are. So that means the want, that  means this matter is not going to give you satisfaction.  So where is the satisfaction?  It is in the Spirit.   Everything aims  at that  point.  One  should see that point.

Interviewer: Thank you.

Shri Mataji: May God bless you.