Talk at Gregoire’s House

Vienna (Austria)





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Talk at Gregoire’s house. Vienna (Austria), 6 September 1984.

…and in the center of it, you see, so it doesn’t touch the sand at all – sand has nothing to do, only the water. After the minimum level we find out, what is the minimum level, it goes on – and we put it there.

Now what happens, that the water is collected, it is sucked in through here, see. We don’t suck in any sand also. There’s a way of doing it by which we take it in the center of the river.

Sahaja Yogi: So we can use this part of the river for rice – for growing rice?

Shri Mataji: We can do a lot on this side – we can do a lot on this side. But this one is taken into the depth of the river. Because you see this much is, what is it, it’s just a pipe, that’s all. That’s not much of an expense, this pipeline, not much of an expense, from where the water is sucked in through this.

So that’s not much of a thing for us – pipeline. Only this thing should be taken into the center. And then this area can be used for making some plants, something we can use, which are growing on the water – watermelons, lotuses, watermelons, all these things we can do. But lotus doesn’t grow on the river. It grows on the lake. So like that we can have watermelons and other things on this. And we have another thing called Singara that also grows well.

But that is a later idea. This is, do not worry so much about this part. You see, leave it as it is, we can use it for swimming, this, that and other things also. And we’ll have ashrams there later on. That’s a good idea.

Sahaja Yogi: Well, Shri Mataji, I was just thinking that You are explaining him how to do the thing, and if You would speak to a doctor you would explain how to heal the patient, if You would speak to an architect You would explain how to build the house, and I see You in all these positions and so many more. It’s just to notice it, Shri Mataji.

Shri Mataji: But I don’t know how handle in politics (laughs) oh I see there. But where is the river. So we’re staying towards the river, and more nearer this side I would say.

It’s better to begin with. You see, no, the bridge, the approach, the bridge is there. So better to have it on that side of the river. You see closer, yes, it’s better. No, that is better, that side. Nearer the river is always better.

…No, but that we should avoid. We should build up that side. We should avoid that much up to this point how far it will be coming. But that much, but nearer the river is nice for people to swim or they want to have the water. We can build up a wall, sort of a thing up to the waters. Because there’s lots of stone underneath there. Stone is no problem. Alright?

They are not bothered, they don’t understand these things you see. They just experiment, you see, it is such a new science, medical science is such a new science. And whatever we have in our country is through the experimenting side. And secondly we built all our discovery on experimentation on human beings as such, you see, and on basics like Trigunatmika, Triguna considered.

You see, and all the medicines are based on that. Same thing was with western culture. But they couldn’t go very far with it, you see. So they gave it up and they started more symptom-wise. Whatever are your symptoms, symptoms to be cured. But you don’t take the whole.

Shri Mataji: That means three types of people and they have three problems they are treated accordingly. Then the balance is brought in. Now for example, the person who is a Sahaja Yogini becomes a thin person. And the person who is a, what do you call it the left side, becomes a fatter person.

And the central one, is the one, who has more of gas. So that is the central one. You don’t have that gas system? And when the permutations and combinations of these go out of balance, any imbalance is not good for health; is not how you look. If you hear everybody if he looks bony, he is healthy.

But in India maybe a bony person is a tubercular patient. Or a fat person is unhealthy for example, but maybe the fat person may ascend. Maybe the person having the Sattwa Guna. So in India it is regarded according to the personality and the person and his temperament. All these things have to be taken into account.

Now say, for example, a man who will do too much of mental work. They will prescribe a diet which will be more carbohydrate. They are not bothered about how you look because there nobody’s going to become a cinema actor. So many inches of waist and so many inches of neck and all that: it’s very outside.

For example a woman has to be leftsided. She has to be fatter, much fatter than man. She has to bear children. Even in animal kingdom if you see, all the females have lots of fat. They have to have fat because they have to sustain the child – they have to work for the child. Now if you find a western girl, I see, sheÆs so thin, and she has children, she has to do household work and all that. And she becomes crazy. That’s why she can’t love her children, because she becomes crazy. There’s no stored energy I mean to say.
And the tensions are so great in the west, too many tensions for nothing at all, very artificial.

Sahaja Yogi: If a person is fat it gives more peace and relaxes more.

Shri Mataji: He should eat more proteins, you see. But it should not be an attitude all the time, with so much protein that, I mean, it is out of balance. If somebody’s fat it could be required.

For example now, supposing if I become very thin, all my chakras will be exposed and IÆll be in trouble. So I have to have a lot of water and a lot of fat, so that my chakras are protected. It depends on the function. And mother must have fat. If a mother doesn’t have fat, the children feel the bones, you know. (laughs)

And the women become mechanical and dry. I’ve read an English poem which described his mother. My mother as large as Asia. A beautiful poem about the mother. So all these concepts about actress being the mother you see is nonsense. And because there is no respect of women, who are really doing respectable work, I mean, then it happens, that women also start taking to this kind of nonsense. I mean in this country where you know what is woman’s position is. She’s a prostitute. So what will happen? They will like to be attractive like a prostitute.

Sahaja Yogi: Because these two things. They are mothers and at the same time, they want to attract man. This cannot go together.

Shri Mataji: Ah … prostitutes … yes.

Sahaja Yogi: Yes Mother, it’s incredible. Sometimes you meet these kind of girls and then you see their babies. And their attention is not at all on the baby. Sometimes you see this kind of girl and they absolutely don’t look like a mother. And their attention is not on their child.

Shri Mataji: I mean the motherhood is the beauty of a woman. Motherhood is the beauty. One should not try to walk against the nature.

I mean, the respectability is not given in this country to a housewife. That’s why people behave like this. But in a subtle way, housewife is very respected in every country. Say now for example. If I go to a party, I’ll be respected as Mrs. Shrivastava, isn’t it? But if my husband’s secretary goes there, she wouldn’t sit next to my husband, will she? Isn’t it? And there’s a beautiful woman who is a secretary. And the wife who is not good-looking. In the society who will sit next to the husband? I have the question now.

I’ll give you a personal example of the whole thing, which happened in Hamburg, this thing, even in Hamburg and the top man of our services called the cabinet secretary. His wife was a very smarty, used to wear jeans, this, that and all the smartness of the world she had, so called.

And she used to wear dresses you see, and she’s a typical westernized sort of a woman. And of course for a dinner she would wear a saree, but that, too a very showy top saree.

And we were invited to a dinner. Me and my husband and she and her husband. And it was a huge dinner, big banquet. So, she didn’t come with her husband. She was busy with something, so she came later on. Or earlier, she came earlier. And the husband came later. So, when everything came, everybody sat as in protocol? He sits on the right, she sits on the left. Now her seat was vacant. Nobody was there. So he said, where’s my wife? They said, your wife never came. No, I think she must have come. I’m sure she has come because she said she’ll reach earlier, so she must be here.

They said, I think your secretary has come, we call her and ask her. And it was his wife. They had put her into another room. And she didn’t know German very well. And she was trying to explain, I’m his wife, I’m his wife. They were telling her, we are waiting for his wife, we are waiting for his wife, you see, we are waiting for his wife.

You see she could not convince them that ôI’m his wifeö. She showed her ring, she showed this. And they said alright, the wife is coming, alright. It was so shameful I think. And even in the diplomatic circles I tell you. I mean, they are very gossip people. And no one likes such women, you know.

I once went to C.P.’s office and people started buttoning up their coats and all that. So I told C.P. that why did they button up and all that. He said, suddenly when they see you, they have respect, you know. They didn’t know that I was his wife, but they had respect, they can see you, there’s respect on your face. And, it’s such a relief for them to see a woman like that.

Normally they have women with call them Kabaddis, means in Indian language, it is called as Kabaddis. There’s a whole organisation filled with Kabaddis. And all diplomats like that, coming as Kabaddis, you see. So they are so fed up with the Kabaddis that it is a relief for them to see some sensible woman coming. And they gossip about women who flirt and who try to show off very much. And there’s no respect….

Even among Indians they do that way. Like there was one lady of that kind. And she was a very big diplomat, was of a very high level. But everywhere I thought, whenever she came to any program or anything, they used to make fun of her. And one day, you see, she came to one program, and they said, from where did you drop? So she said, I didn’t drop, I came. He said, no, the kind of you are, you should really drop, because you are so thin you can drop through a hole also.

They always make fun. There’s no dignity in them. Because I don’t say that it’s only the way of fat or thin or anything, but the dignified way of living is important. How much you are dignified is the point. What dignity you have. That’s very important for a housewife.

So you can leave it, I will be eating them one by one. Let everyone have some. And the taste to tell me how it is. It would be very tasty. Compared to others because they are very natural, and they will be much more tasty than your hybrid ones.

This is what it is. It is not the described form of appearance that is important. What comes out from inside is important. What is the total form.

Now a Sahaja Yogi say, for example, tries to look like an actor or an actress: he’ll never impress people. Even the false gurus, go on training how to look like a serene personality. Even pope has been that way if you see. Even lamas are like that. They try to make themselves look like a serene person. And any person who is a Sahaja Yogi appears to be cheap-type, cheaply available, cheap-type. Nobody’s going to have this. And exclaim ones sort of glamour. Nobody’s going to have respect. And a sort of displaying ones, sort of glamour and beauty of the eyes.

So one has to be dignified as in totality. Such a person really automatically, spontaneously becomes a personality that impresses others by character, by everything, by a genuine expression. Not a hypocrite, but a genuine Sahaja Yogi. That of course automatically also means you must respect your being. Like you should not be behaving in a way that you don’t respect your chastity, your sense of dharma. All these things you must respect. And as a result of that, you will come out in an expression which will be very unique.

There is no need to put up a show like that. The boy who used to come to Munich you see. He had his hair all like a sadhubaba and all that, and beard and all that, and trying to impress me. He was really mad. And this Dominique. I told him that why do you dress up like this. He said, I want to be primitive. Because I asked him, this is the way you look like a primitive. And he said, ôI want to be a primitiveö. So I said, alright, if you want to be primitive, I must tell you, you cannot be. Because your brain is modern. So it is hypocritical. There is no German word for hypocracy?

Sahaja Yogi: “Scheinheilig”, “heilig” means holy and “Schein” means false.

Shri Mataji: Scheinheilig – in German this is this? That’s true also. All that shines is not good. (laughs) So this hypocracy is very much in the west because of outside. Because outside should be good, you should be dressed well, you must look up here well, do this. And inside there’s no chastity. There’s no dharma, isn’t it? There’s no respect for anything.

Sahaja Yogi: Shri Mataji, You know how Christ called the Pharisees. He called them “whited tombs”. They were like tombs, all rotten inside but outside they were quite white.

Shri Mataji: All value system is decayed. All value system can have clean sheets and clean things, clean everything, and inside is rotten. Yes, it is not so important you know. If inside is clean then outside shows clean.

Sahaja Yogi: Shri Mataji, I really would say the best example of this was perhaps this wedding in Geneva. Because there was not one of the brides who was not absolutely beautiful. Really they were so shining, they were all beaming and they were all beautiful. It was so wonderful.

Shri Mataji: I mean it is unbelievable even Dr. Mutali told me. I can’t believe it, I can’t just believe it. Just can’t believe it, he said.

So this is the situation now in the west we must understand. That more attention is paid to outside, not to inside. We must be careful on that. Imagine, the women are like prostitutes, and the next day you find them as teachers. In India we can’t conceive that, can’t conceive such a thing, impossible.

See, also I was surprised by another thing. I guess a lady she is about fifty years of age or as fourty years of age or something. She has divorced her first husband and she says I must have another husband, you see, at fourty or fifty. In India, even if the girl becomes widow at twenty-one, she is so higher, I mean, she is so lofty, she doesn’t bother much. And they are very happy without marriage. But here you cannot conceive of a woman, because your women are not women, they’re like men, you see.

And men also. So many men don’t marry in India if once they loose their wives. They just don’t marry. Because, once is over now. But here they must have wives at fourty, fifty, sixty. This means mother is sixty years and she’s married six times or five times I don’t know what. It’s absurd.

Sahaja Yogi: Mother, it’s because there’s no satiation. I mean if you have satiation for five minutes you have done it for your life. But if you never do it….

Shri Mataji: Because it is not wholesome. Because it is not wholesome. The relationship is not wholesome, you see, this is the problem. If it is wholesome, it is a very deeper relationship. It is a very inner relationship, where you don’t think of getting after another woman, getting after another man. All this is finished, once you’re married. Because if you have, say a method, like married life, you must feel as if you are in your home. Like when you go to somebody’s house, you feel you have to go now to, you have to go back and it’s not your home. I mean you have to go back home.

Like that marriage is. Now you have reached your destination. So now you settle down. Still you are running about on your destination, it’s madness. Just try this. You will be amazed how it works out. Just try.

Like in the Islam. That time the problem was, that there were so many women and men died. So many men died because Mohammed Sahib had to face the tribal strives and tribal problems. In that so many men died and women were left. So few men were there that it would have started a prostitution. So Mohammed Sahib said, so you can marry four women, marry. But they were young girls and there were no young men left at that time to marry because most of the young men were slain.

So he said, alright, I’ll marry a young girl, but marry. The point was, main basis was that you must marry. And this attitude of an incarnation is called as samyachar, is at that moment whatever is the problem, to deal with it in that way. You see now, the times change, then this samyachar has to be changed accordingly. For that you require wisdom.

Shivaji who is known for his chastity had to marry four times. Because of certain lays of work he had to do. And Draupadi had to marry five husbands, because of certain promises then gave to their mother. And Krishna had to marry sixteen thousand women who were his powers. Because he had no Sahaja Yogini, you see.

Sahaja Yogi: Shri Mataji, is this symbolical?

Shri Mataji: Of course, of course. They were absolute powers of Shri Krishna. Sixteen thousand.

Sahaja Yogi: I mean, he really married sixteen thousand?

Shri Mataji: Yes, of course. I mean, the relationship was just so called married. He was a Yogeshwara. So what is his marriage.

Sahaja Yogi: Sixteen thousand? And he also went around the fire and…

Shri Mataji: No, no, no, no. In one lot (laughs). In one lot he married. He just declared that they were my wives in one lot. Because, you see it now how he played. He wanted to have his powers as I want you to flow my powers, you see. So he said, that time it was difficult to get Sahaja Yogis or anything. So what he did, he got these ladies born in that area. And they were all captured by one horrible rakshasa. He killed the rakshasa and got all the sixteen thousand women, and they were his powers, and that’s how he worked. And the five elements were another his wives.

Now imagine in this time of overpopulation I have so many children. And people might criticise that he had so many children in the overpopulated land (laughs). And then people will say we should have so many children also, you see, Mother has, you see. It would be absurd. So this is Samyachar. Like, according to Samya I take Coca Cola with it because I have to be very normal. But that doesn’t mean you should take Coca Cola you get your realization. (laughs) And this is what happened. But Shivaji, though he had wives, nobody in Maharashtra has wives like that. Because they could understand that. It is wisdom and discretion.

And once an ambassador asked me that why is it that people of Islamic culture are fighting among themselves so much, and killing so much, why they are so violent. They asked me one question, you see. And I put an attention to it. Because poor Mohamed Sahib had to fight all evil forces at that time. But he didn’t want people to fight each other. That was not the thing.

He had to fight evil forces you see. I mean he was haunted there, absolutely haunted. Haunted you can call it. It’s haunted. He was given poison. I mean, imagine. But I would give a reason why it is so; because of many marriages in Islamic culture. You see if man has four wives, always there will be fight among his four children. Will be. Isn’t it? Because they don’t have the same mother. And if the mother is bhootish, the children will be bhootish, if mother is dharmic, the children will be dharmic, isn’t it, automatically. So what is important, is that we should see what is Samyachar and accordingly, if something happens, it should not be followed to that extent, that to say, supposing you have five wives as Krishna had, you become a realized soul. It’s nonsense, you don’t become a Yogeshwara. So one has not to take all the things that the incarnations had to do, but have to achieve them as ideas as to achieve their powers, and not what they did. Because it would be something, supposing I have a power to write, so I write very well. So now supposing you start copying my writing, you cannot become a writer, can you?

So one should understand that, when you try to follow an incarnation. Like somebody says I can kill people. Hitler can say I am Shri Krishna and I am killing people. But he is not Shri Krishna first of all. And he has no business to kill because he’s not Shri Krishna. So this is the problem with human beings, they start becoming one thing by only outward behaviour. And they don’t see the results of it, how horrible it could be. I also found that Japanese people are extremely cruel inside, very cruel. They are not like German, who are grossly, but in subtle way the Japanese are extremely cruel people inside their heart. And in the outside, you see, they are very humble. If there’s an accident, both of them will come out from both the sides. They’ll bow to each other and go away. You’ll think what nice people they are. That is thanking for getting a new car out of this show.

But if they find your foot in a crowd, they’ll crush it and kill it. I mean, if they can get hold of your foot or hand or something, they will just crush it. And absolutely filthy they are as the sex is concerned, extremely filthy. You remember, we went to Nepal, and they were having the zoom-lenses, you see, to find out where are erotic things and we never saw it, we Indians never saw it. And one falling down another climbing up. So clambering. Very filthy their attitude and research, is so filthy. The reason is, their mothers are just dish-washers. And they have no intelligence of any kind. They are ugly and they have no intelligence. Any women who is beautiful and has intelligence, she becomes a geisha.

A Japanese, you see when I went to Japan, they did not know where to take me, because they do not take ladies to their homes. They took me to a geisha house which I did not understand; with my two daughters, you see. And the geishas liked my bangles and I gave them the bangles. So, they were very angry. You can’t give it to them, they are not pure like you people. But if a woman is treated just like a servant, and is made to work like a servant and has no place in the house, the children become like this, because they have no respect.

Even in Germany I found out, I was most amazed, that the women have no respect. They have no respectability, nor respect. I went to East-Germany and I had a lady, who was the interpreter, very intelligent, very good lady. And she told me that she’s not yet married and she would not be married. But she said, she has no children, she is married but she has no children and she doesn’t want to have any children. So I said, why? She said because supposing I’d have children, my figure will definitely be different and my husband will immediately marry a younger girl. And then I should have a figure so that I should get another husband. Of course, this would be an older man. But still it will be a husband there. But with my children I will have no husband, because either I’ll be very thin, or maybe very fat and the man may not like me, I mean, I wouldn’t be so beautiful. So this is how they are played into and that’s why they are like this, and no wonder, that’s why Germans take to violence.

If the women are insecure and they want to find their security in prostitution and things like that, what will happen to the children? I mean in India it’s a well known fact, a prostitute is always a person who is extremely violent, it turns out to be a decoy or something, always.

So if the women are not respected and respectable, the children have to be violent. There’s no other way out. Now, we too, in India had the invasion of the Islamic culture in the North, where the men are not so much Sthiras, not so much steady as the South type of people. And there also the women are very sort of treated in a way, either they have to be like prostitutes or they are treated just like nothing. Up to Bengal, to Punjab and in Delhi all this, and the eyes are always hovering with women, and all the men have that sort of a habit.

S.Y. Like here?

Shri Mataji: Like Vienna? Not that bad. (laughs) And you see North India is full of violence. Not only, it is: there is no law and order. In V.P. there is no law and order, in Bihar there’s no law and order, in Bengal there’s no law and order. It’s all finished that area. But in the South it’s very peaceful, you have been to Maharashtra. Like that you cannot move in the night in U.P. You will be all robbed. But actually this is not Islamic culture. It is absolutely anti-Islamic. Because Mohammed Sahib respected women very much, and because of their respect he wanted to observe the Pavda, so that they are preserved. See this is the reason. And the marriage laws are very great there.

And if men try even to look at bad women, in Riad I have seen, their eyes are pierced. There it is better. Women are very safe. ItÆs much better. The dharmic wives, they are much better people. This is the “Chariaö, which was given to us in the Bible. If you read the chapter of it was given to us by Moses for such people. ItÆs given to the Jews, but followed by Muslims. And in a public place; on every Friday on public place, the heads are cut, hands are cut, feet are cut, they are buried alive. Everything in the public. Now, I mean, itÆs very rare now, this. But it was in the beginning. And flogging is very common even now, flogging. In Riad the gold is lying all over, open like that, absolutely just like, you have seen the flower shops in India like that. You see many flower shops like that, everywhere open. But youÆll be amazed, nobody touches anything.

Nobody steals, no houses locked. Nobody attacks another’s wife. No. Nothing. And on the road you see, if the women are crossing they stop the car. They are very respectful. You see, if a woman is travelling with her children, you get your free luggage, any amount, you may carry. They`ll come all the way to help you, it`s special arrangement. And nobody can have a keep you know. If you have a keep you are finished there. I mean if they discover.

It`s such a terrible conditioning you can`t imagine. One English lady you know, she was a keep of one prince. And she was killed. She was thrown from there. Now, she was English, and then the English father went to find out and all that: nothing, he could not get anything out of that. It`s a place like that. But this is out of fear. And out of fear if you do good, whatÆs the use?

There is no development inside, itÆs just out of fear. But in Sahaja Yoga you develop from inside. And you develop that personality which respects. It respects its own dharma, its chastity. So, this is a very different realm in which we are. We don`t need “charia”. We don`t even need ten commandments. Even the eyes become so pure. And your whole mind becomes so pure. ItÆs such a purifying force flowing in you.

And that is how you`ll be surprised, we`ll have very good families, very good children and a new race. Absolutely a new race. And that is how we do not force anything on anyone. One sees for oneself. And one sees the sense of purity being acting as a so beautifying force. Because it reduces all the complications of life.

And those people who still indulge into such things, get out of Sahaja Yoga. Or, there are so many other ways, why they get out. But we do not force on anyone, nor do we force them to stay in Sahaja Yoga. And that is how Sahaja Yoga beautifies you, gives you dignity. You don`t have to have anything artificial. You need not be a dandy person, you need not be a primitive person. And you have to be a normal personality.

And everybody grows into it. I tell you, I have seen people who were called as a loafers, have become such beautiful Sahaja Yogis, that you can`t believe it. So many people who were like loafers, called as loafers, in India you see.

Sahaja Yogi: Loafers is what?

Shri Mataji: No, no, no, loafers are who flirt about, gay people. People can`t believe it. Alright. So this is the great idea of our talks today, that we have to just become courageous and brave to accept ourselves as we are, as Sahaja Yogis. And whatever is not Sahaj, we have to throw away. We should have courage. You should be bold and strong. Then it works out. So now that is very clear to you, all of you, and I hope it will be very easily understood, by all of you, that the greatest thing that you allow the Sahaja System to work on yourself, and cooperate with yourself and respect yourself, and respect other Sahaja Yogis. ThatÆs all. ThatÆs all, and it will work out. IÆm sure, youÆll all be very great Sahaja Yogis in this place.

Very important it is, because it is on the verge of Europe and Germany. ItÆs very important. I bless you all for that! And you should forgive yourself. First of all forgive. Whatever has happened, past is past, finished. From this moment past is finished. And we start a new life now. Finished. Forgive yourself. Because you are no more that, you are no more that.

May God bless you. Good night!

H.H. Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi