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1984-0918 Talk to Sahaja Yogis, Italy
Fume. Like Fumes. And it is such an absurd place. There is also very surprising that every 28mins, in a place, water comes out of the Mother earth, exactly after 28mins. It’s a very funny place, lots of sulphur there, Sulphur just bubbling out, you find suddenly from somewhere hot water coming out, just pouring out. Can you imagine such a place?
Now Andes is another side, andes is a kind that will give tremours, earthquakes. It will give lots of earthquakes and it has lots of gold also. It is right-sided, lots of gold and earthquake. It will be giving lots of earthquakes. When it comes to destruction, it will act as earthquakes. America is that portion, it is all Andes. And all that will be shattered by. So these two forces will act more at the time of destruction. So one has to be careful about it. Because you see Bolivia, [unclear] and all these places, these people went from here. They killed so many of these people. So many of these races were killed completely. Then dead bodies were there. Killing is very bad because when you kill a person, that person cannot take birth and hangs in the air and becomes a bhoot. So they have overpowered America. That’s why Americans are like that. See they killed all the people from New York to the whole of America, all people were aboriginals, so they have possessed them also. And in the same way in the south its happening. It is all again though it is right-sided but supraconscious. So they have to be very careful now. They have to take to sahaja yoga and those who will be taking to sahaja yoga will be only saved. Rest will be destroyed. Because andes will act as a supraconscious thing for destruction and [unclear] and all that will have what you call volcanoes.
Yogi: Mother, would you explain again left side, right side and the Himalayas.
Shri Mataji: you see, you think of Himalaya as the central part, Kailasha, fontanelle bone, on this is the plate of the Ekadash. Now all the Germans??, alps all the same. Left side Kasia, Argentina all this are Ekadasha. But on both the sides we have got andes and this side [unclear]… out of these two, the left-sided one is the Andes because the sun rises from this side and the right-sided one should be Japanese according to Sahaja yoga style. But if you see this is right and this is left. Now what has happened is that the right-sided people like Spanish went down there and killed so many of these people who were all right-sided too. So the whole thing we should be called as right-sided. The Andes as right-sided. Because the right-sided people will be punished by the right-sided defence and left-sided will be punished by the left-sided defence. Because the right sided people have gone there and have killed the right sided people, the right sided people there have overpowered these people. That’s why the speed is there, and the Americans are all very violant. Now all these things put together forms these Andes, it is there standing waiting for its chance. And when the things will be horrible absolutely, there won’t be any atomic bomb blast or anything these themselves will have earthquakes. The earthquake is the quality of Mother earth. And she will assert through these. And on the left-hand side of these Japanese what will happen Japanese were made into left-sided because they were given drugs, opium. These left handed people will be finished by volcanoes and typhoons. While on this site, the people who have been following all the wrong things will be finished by earthquakes. And these places like the west coast; The west coast of America is very dangerous because there were so many atrocities done by Americans. They cannot get away with it, so themselves they’ll be finished because they’ll become lunatics, mad and apart from that mother earth itself will finish them. Now on the right-hand side, I think volcanoes will finish and the destruction time [unclear]…. But just now as far as now is concerned we have to see how many people we can bring out. If the number of Sahaja yogis increases in those areas, then maybe Mother earth will be pacified.
Yogi : the same is written in the bible, when god wants to come and kill and [unclear] Abraham perhaps asked to God, God if there are 10 good people then what will you do, God said I will save them all, then [adam] asked if there are 9 good people then what will you do, God said I will save them all. If there is one good person then God said: “I will save the town”.
Shri Mataji: now we have thousands. But in the bible, it is written only how many?
Yogi: hundred and forty-four thousand.
Shri Mataji: that’s all. You are about reaching that number 144000. Only. It is written in the bible
Yogini: Shree Mataji, does it mean that the last judgement at the time of destruction will manifest in the form of earthquake and volcanoes.
Shri Mataji: Of course, that will be there. So many things will happen and people will be killed and destroyed. They will go to hell. People will be sent to hell. You will see what will happen on earth. People will become mad, they’ll start eating faeces, naraka, they’ll be creating for themselves. Now only the way they are following Rajnish, what are they doing, its naraka. That’s how they’ll be punished. But those who are described now 144000 is a very small number.
Yogini: want to ask a question about people who get killed, Mother. They become Bhoots. Is there any chance.
Shri Mataji: Difficult. Those who are killed might be but those who are possessed. Those who get killed are reborn again. Those who have been killing are also reborn. So there is a chance for such people. But those who are killed are possessing people who killed them. Why did they kill? They had no business. “Thou shall not kill”. I mean after all, if you do not follow one rule and regulation of your hopeless government you are punished. What about GOD? He said “thou shall not kill” and you have killed. So, you should not be punished?
Yogini: what about war killed, Victims?
Shri Mataji: If they are reborn they will not, but if they taking revenge, then how to save.
Yogi: they can choose
Shri Mataji: they can choose. If they want they should take their birth, get realization. But they are trying to become bhoots. The idea of revenge should not be there. Now you see Indians have only this sense. How much Britishers have tortured Indians, you have no idea. I mean I cannot tell you how much they have tortured. I can only tell you about my own family, that my father’s all houses, everything was taken away. We were living in palaces, we started living in huts. Cars, everything, all ornaments, everything of my mother was taken away. Only we had one big, mother had a big family gold thing we called “Vyjayanthimala”, that’s the only thing that she had hidden, which she had [paurned???] and on that she educated us. To me they have beaten, they have given electric shocks. They put me on the ice slabs. I was a young girl of 18-19yrs. So many people they have tortured like this. Oh, they have tortured and tortured to such any extent, you have no idea. But raping, prostitution, everything they have done. But Indians don’t hate English. They don’t hate them. They are very kind. If English go there, some English barristers went to India and the holiday was given to the high court. They are so respectful, but the English they misbehaved and they brought so many Indians with them. Now they were given British passports and sent as slaves to East Africa to work there. But when East Africa became independent they had British passports so they came as Britishers. Now they were treated as immigrants in England. Think about it. Actually, they have an only British passport, they have no other passport. And 80% of Indians are like that. 10% are students and 10% may be Pakistanis. Can you imagine? and see the condition of Indians in England, the way this English feel about them. So naturally one would feel very embittered with them. Isn’t it. But I have never seen any Indian criticising English people. My husband says it is Indians who are responsible, they behave in such a manner, they wash their clothes, they hang them outside. He will always blame the Indians, they don’t know how to eat on a table, they use their hands. Indians not embittered at all. They are the only people who have really forgiven. There is no embitterment and you know in India its a law, unwritten law. I was on the censor board, that no film can be made against the English. Nothing. No film is made about our freedom, independence or about Gandhi. This is an Englishmen who made it. We were not allowed to do that.
Yogini: There was a big series, very popular series on television showing how awful British had been to Indians.
Shri Mataji: They always tried to debase Indians to make fun of them. What is the name of the series?
Yogini: its called John and the crown. It is about the last days of the British raj. And it is horrible.
Shri Mataji: I mean what do they show there.
Yogini: they show just reality, absolute cruelty, beating some boy with sticks, accusing him of raping a girl he never did. English, they show the English in a very bad light. Very surprising.
Yogi: Good, its being at least exposed.
Shri Mataji: somebody must have talked about it.
Yogi: when we watched the film about Gandhi. When in Delhi you took us to see that movie. At the half time, everybody walked out. About fourty of the British sahaja yogis were just like stunned [unclear], they could not move.
Shri Mataji: that is nothing, they have shown nothing, compared to what people have seen.
Yogini: this series is much more brutal [unclear]. Watching is so hard. Horrible.
Yogi: I heard about it.
Shri Mataji: and you see now as they were saying there were no arches or bridges. Now the British must have removed everything that was there. They never respected anything. Even now they have no respect for our culture, for our music, for anything. They haven’t got brains to understand, in such ego.
Yogi: Shree Mataji, you were saying this afternoon that lots of culture, history and architecture and so on in India pre-dates so much a lot of the west.
Mother : [unclear] I told them that they have not seen, but in India, we have something called as Ajanta Caves. Caves mean like palaces, huge and one stone, huge, for miles. I said if we have learned from the Greeks why don’t the Greeks have something like that. They don’t have anything. The kind of art we have in our country you don’t find it anywhere in the whole world, I think. This is how [unclear] It is built from down upwards. It is the cave from the top down in the 10th century.
Yogi: All the engineering, everything had [unclear]. She explained what you explained today that we started from the root and then we go down. Like you were explaining today to this fellow, that we started from the root and then we go down, not from fundaments we go up. Yes, Mother, she would just like to ask a question about Mussoorie and you were talking about Ajanta. You finish your talking.
Shri Mataji: No, I am just saying that we Indians have got something, that we are very forgiving. There is no embitterness in them, they don’t carry any embitterness in their mind. And secondly, they are very anonymous. You will never find an Indian name written on any painting. This is all modern. Modern people are westernised. Even now, go and find who has done it. Somebody, someone must have done. Very anonymous people and that is only because it is a very spiritual country. The whole tradition is of spirituality. That’s why people are very spiritual, they are not so materially equipped because they never paid much attention to material advancement.
Yogi: Perhaps Mother, I wrote a Kumaraswamy. Kumaraswamy is the greatest Indian critic and now everybody has set him as a master in Indian art. I wrote his whole book and he is an excellent man I think. Perhaps, he is also realized I don’t know.
Shri Mataji: what’s his name?
Shri Mataji: Kumaraswamy. I have not read it.
Yogi: I think he is a good man. He said also that they didn’t write their name just because they saw him as an instrument of God, just a channel of God. Infact, a man who worked in Ellora just wrote on the walls of Ellora. Oh God, “how I made it”. He meant he was the instrument. He meant that “I couldn’t do it, You have done it”. It is very beautiful. We could not understand it in our culture and we think we do “I do, I do, I do”, but they say “God You do”.
Shri Mataji: That’s the reason but we had a very bad invasion of the tantrikas with the same kind of thing, those people who started practising meditation. And perhaps they saw Ganesha at mooladhara and they thought this is the kundalini. They started taking to sexual things and did all the wrong things. Then they found out that they went into the realm of the subconscious, collective subconscious. Then they got bhoots in their heads. They got ideas that if you can destroy the purity of a temple then you can get all the bhoots there. So they tried to destroy all the temples with their horrible tantrik things, erotics they put to insult the Goddess if you insult the Goddess, she goes away from there. Supposing, say before me somebody is misbehaving, I’ll go away. Like that, to remove the attention. And the tantrism started. But you know we had no idea that tantrism is like that. We have never seen this thing. I myself went to Nepal with my children, my daughters, my husband and we saw all the temples. We never saw anything erotic. Never saw. Then when I went to Gregoire, went to write the book he said Mother its everywhere. I said where? There were some Japanese with some zoom lenses, with these ladders. They had brought all the ladders from Japan, in India you don’t get this kind of ladders, with zoom lenses, standing and somebody falling. I said what are they doing? They are taking photographs of these erotics. I said at that point what is [unclear] [laughing]…. Japanese I tell you, even somebody was doing work on Sistine Chapel. Some Japanese and he has enlarged all the private parts of all the things, everybodies. Can u believe these dirty people, so this is what it is. We had an attack, we would not say no. These tantrikas came in, in Advent it is given. These tantrikas did come and they did attack us. But we are innocent, we never knew these things at all. And in India, we don’t know many things. I did not know what is homesexuality, I had no idea and when somebody explained to me I really didn’t eat my food for 8 days. I couldn’t believe there could be such people. Many people do not know there are such people. In India, I think at least 90% of people don’t know. Atleast.
Yogi: You know that involuntary is impossible to find books about Indian art. It is really impossible. But you can find a book about all the erotics out of India.
Shri Mataji: Because we did not know anything existed like this. We had no idea anything was there. It is only in the west when we came, [we got to know] this is Kaama.
Shri Mataji: Kamasutra. How many Indians have read this book, even heard about this? I mean its pornography. How can you have pornography? But here people are, I don’t know what sort of people they are. Educated, uneducated, everybody read pornography. I don’t know what is the level. I had never known there were books written like Kamasutra. Some tantrika must have written a long time back.
Yogi: During the Gupta age Mother.
Shri Mataji: is it?
Yogi: Yes Mother
Shri Mataji: Gupta age
Yegi : [Unclear, Alito??] before the Gupta age. Because you know Gupta, [unclear] before capitalism in India
Shri Mataji: Gupta cannot be because in the 7th century [unclear] it really took complete form in a very big way. In the 6th century after the birth of Adi Shankaracharya just to [out] Shankaracharya it took real roots. And then the buddists, they went to tantrism. And these masonics are another tantrics and the [occident???]. But still Indians are very innocent, you won’t find such people anywhere. Even Africans are not like that, even Russians are not like that. They are very innocent and they don’t understand. Such a big man like Modi is a stupid fool, he doesn’t understand anything. He is worse than me. And then very potently they die because they are very innocent. This is all bathroom culture. Kajuraho all this is worst, we never even saw all these things. I am surprised Kajuraho is the worst because the architect himself was a Tantrik. Not Kajuraho, Konark, Konark is the worst. But Kajuraho, the king was a very bad man. And his ministers were jains. They wanted to have jain temples. So to please the king they said alright we’ll have erotics outside. But they had to tell all kinds of stories to the artists. They had competition. Artists were very clever. You see they made very thin erotic pictures, and Gods & Goddesses are very healthy, fat. And in one corner, I did not know where it was. I went throughout Kajuraho without saying anything. So I told one lady “I have read there are erotics, what is that I would like to see”. So she came around and showed in this corner, that corner. And one could not see because all the Europeans and all were so busy there [laughing].
Yogi: If you open [unclear] and ask book about India, you just see this picture. Alright, only Kajuraho. Indian art on books is only Kajuraho.
Shri Mataji: can you imagine.
Yogi : Like Konark, kajuraho and konark.
Shri Mataji: And we didn’t even see these things. You know we went with our daughters. Can you imagine; my husband, he won’t even see a film together with my daughters. So shy and we went to Nepal we never knew. My son-in-law who has been so many days in Nepal, he did not know. Can you imagine? This is Romen who seems to be a very intelligent man. He didn’t know anything. But it is very far fetched you know. You have to really zoom lenses to see.
Yogi: Yes Mother, On the roof.
Shri Mataji: I mean, can’t understand. Ofcourse, it entered into our sculpture in the 10th century but not so visible. But went to another limit of things, these Kings some of them. Very bad Kings but they were after the 7th century. [unclear] but we Indians don’t know. I read lots of Sanskrit. My mother was a Sanskrit scholar. My father was a Sanskrit scholar but they never knew there was a book called Kamasutra. We never knew I mean it is like pornography for an educated man. Do you study pornography?
Yogi: they have big art exhibitions for pornography and erotica in big public galleries.
Shri Mataji: you have PhD’s on that. Do you?
Yogi : Probably [unclear] erotic culture.
Shri Mataji: they have one big, they have that red rat for the bull and they have this erotic. Stupid people. What can I do with them tell me, now I have to go to Spain.
Yogi: I had been to Spain two months ago.
Shri Mataji: why don’t you go and see our Sahaja yogis.
Yogi: I will Mother.
Shri Mataji: Poor this Don. I went with his wife. She is now in Barcelona. We have a centre in Madrid and we have Spanish people there.
Yogi: I met them Mother and I convinced them to come for the Guru pooja.
Shri Mataji: very good. Very nice poor people but the majority are nonsensical, so stupid. My husband went to Spain they gave him a present of an erotic. I said what is this [laughing] who gave you. Special for you. Very secretly they gave you. I said this is erotics, throw it away. These stupid people wanted to insult me. Same with Greeks. In Greece, they gave him erotic stuff. To me, they gave Mary’s face. He said what do they think me to be and he threw it away.
Yogi: they think it is intellectual. They show freedom perhaps.
Shri Mataji: Freedom is what. Bathroom freedom.
Yogi: They say this reaction of the Catholic church with the previous government is worse [unclear]
Shri Mataji: that means you have no personality.
Yogi: liberation, drugs, even the ministry [unclear].
Shri Mataji: now supposing u have a problem because of the catholic church. So, must you become stupid? I mean you must have some personality of your own. Isn’t it and whatever catholic church preach there was nothing wrong in it. I think there is nothing wrong. What they said is correct. They did not give you the power to do that. Catholic church itself did not have the power. Nor did they give you the power to do that. After Sahaja Yoga, you see it is very easy. You enjoy being virtuous. Isn’t it?
Human beings have become nothing but sex points. Even dogs and monkeys and donkeys have. What is so special about that? People talk about sex and in India the people who are a eunuch. They talk about having a child. Sex is so natural what is so great about it. I just don’t understand really. I think these are impotent people, to them, it is great to talk about sex. What is there to talk and to educate, what is there. It is so natural. First of all, you all become unnatural and then behave like unnatural people. Its all unnaturalness, that’s why you are like this. Horrible it is. Absolutely horrifying. Despite all that we produce more children than you do. We have potent men and women. We have very good married lives. And we enjoy everything that we have. What have you achieved out of your sex? Nothing divorce, rapist, prostitution.
Yogi: Without Sahaja yoga, there is no solution to Shree Mataji.
Shri Mataji: There is no solution. They are all going in a mass way to hell, straight. Direct to hell. I mean what are they becoming, just think of it. Sensational nonsense as if dead bodies they need sensations all the time.
Yogi: we had sublime, we couldn’t see what we had lost. It is so much. How can we try to speak to people what we have lost? It is too much.
Shri Mataji: Gradually they will. Don’t have to talk about their past. Forget the past. Gradually because you develop innocence. Innocence comes into your eyes. The relationships are so pure. No complications. So pure.
And with the purity of relationship, only your married lives will be alright. Otherwise, every man’s wife is running with another man. Man is running with another woman. What sort of morality is that? Complete confusion, it is nonsense. I can’t understand this. There’s a gentleman he became my rakhi brother. Once I just tied a rakhi because he had no sister. He must be now about 70yrs old. Once I was going to Delhi. So my husband said alright you better go with him because he is going by train. So he booked a coupe for both of us. we went together. I mean he is my brother. [unclear]. And we went by a coupe. When we reached there my husband came to receive me with some foreigners. Then they were quite surprised. They said are you divorced, Mr Shrivastava. He said why. She is coming out with another man. That’s her brother. Oh brother. But doesn’t look like her brother. That’s her brother, she has accepted him as a brother. But brother cannot travel in the same coupe, under law. If there are a brother and a sister they can’t live in one room under law. What a filth it is. There is no purity between real brothers and sisters. Here it is just a brother, sort of a Rakhi brother. Imagine and never goes into our heads. Nothing, not even my husband’s head. This is something surprising which people don’t understand. As you have rules and regulations for a good civic life, for good married life also there has to be certain rules and regulations which are to be respected. Otherwise, how can you have a good married life? That is not curbing yourself. Every freedom has to have certain rules and regulations so that freedom is preserved. For the preservation of freedom only. This is abandonment. Yes, maryada purushotham. This is a license. This is in no way freedom. This is abandonment. What is freedom? The husband is worried about the wife. Wife is worried about the husband. Actually, we are free people. Like my husband goes all over the world. I know for definite he is not going to look at any women. And he knows for me also so we are free people moving everywhere happily. It’s true freedom. Supposing now, he is there, in my house he comes even if he sleeps in the same bed my husband won’t doubt. He is like my son. My sons-in-law will come and sleep with me on the same bed. They hug me, mummy, mummy. Nobody says anything. Nobody can even think ill, doesn’t go into our heads. I can’t understand. With all this thinking people have become mad like just sex points. I mean you have reduced yourself to nothing but sex points. Think about it. What degradation.
Yogi: we were like that before the realization.
Mother : [laughing] but now you have become Shree Ganesha. You all have become Shree Ganesha. You have become such great people now.
Yogi: but I think really I can’t forgive the English for what they did to you.
Yogi: English people have [unclear], they did war, they did to Argentina. [unclear]
Shri Mataji: Germans were teaching them and they had those goose steps. You know what is a goose step, left right, left right, and I asked how is it that you know all this. They kept quite. This is German. Lots of Germans built up their base there, horrible Germans. In a way, I agree, they should not have, but Argentina is saved now because these Germans would have really finished them.
Yogi : [unclear] confided before I came to the puja. And I feel now there is a group waiting for you and waiting for me to make the decision. I spoke about you and they are really waiting.
Shri Mataji: they’ll get. Because you see their prestige has gone away. Argentina and the UN, they have not lost much prestige. English has lost prestige. But the Germans are finished. They were horrible people, Germans were training all their military, all their navy, they have built a huge big [barricade?]. I have seen it myself. And I was quite frightened. So, in a way its good, in a way Argentina has not lost prestige. Doesn’t matter. In the war, though English has won the war, Argentina has not lost its face. People feel that Argentina was not wrong. Keeping [unclear]. Still, there is a lot of reaction against Mrs Thatcher. The other day they were asking her “how did you bombard that ship”?
Yogi: The truth of the real aggressiveness is coming out now in the war files. It is all being exposed, how they overdid the boundaries of novel defence.
Shri Mataji: once she had changed the codes also, the ship went and bombarded and two hundred sixty-five [unclear]. So prestige wise they have not lost. But these Germans are reduced I am very happy about them. Because of these Germans if you allow them to grow like that
Yogi: they are still in Chile, Mother. [unclear]
Shri Mataji: Chile government is also a very very tough government.
Jai Shree Mataji