Public Program Day 1

Rome (Italy)



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Public Program Day 1. Rome (Italy), 19 September 1984.

(Here Shri Mataji gives Her speech in English and the interpreter translates that to local dialect for the audience. The interpreter also converts the questions from public to English language and conveys those to Shri Mataji)

(One question comes from the audience)

Interpreter: He is asking, “Why in India they’ve got so many deities? There is Shiva and the Trimurtis. And how can the human being reach the Spirit, which is infinite and endless?”

Shri Mataji: You see, that is whatever you have seen about Indian Gods and Goddesses and all those things are, they are all placed within ourselves. Now when we think there is one God, we believe, also Indians believe there is one God only. There is not many gods. But you see God is not like Rock of Gibraltar. He has got his eyes, He’s got his nose, He’s got everything just like us. We are made in His image, you see. So these different deities, whatever are described in Indian scriptures, are actually the milestones of our evolutionary process. While Christ is here, called as Mahavishnu.

Now in Sahaja Yoga when you get the Spirit within yourself, you will see that everything is so related, so integrated, everything has a great meaning. As Christ has said, “Those who are not against Me are with Me.” But to understand Christ also, Bible is not sufficient. He is too great a personality, He is the complete Chaitanya, He is the Brahmashakti. So you cannot understand him only through Bible. You have to read some other books to understand what He was before, then what became, then why He came on this earth. You see, this knowledge is just from the Bible if you have, it is like a blinker of a horse, you see things. You must see the whole thing and then you will be amazed that Christ is much more described in those ancient scriptures than in the Bible, because in the Bible there were all foolish people. They murdered him in four years.

Now the Sahaja Yogis, who have become realized souls know much, much more than any priest can know about Christ. You can prove the existence of God or of Christ that He was the son of God through Sahaja Yoga only. You can prove it scientifically. Now, see when the Kundalini rises, if she gets stuck here, you have to take the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. If you don’t take his name, the Kundalini won’t rise. Now we should logically also understand one thing that it is a traditional, spiritual is traditional and is also a tree which is living, which is growing. It is not something like just Christ came from somewhere. He is traditionally brought to this world for a particular purpose. He was made before for a particular purpose. He is not just an ordinary person, just born out of a virgin. But the worst thing we have done to Christ, is to rationalize Him. We have rationalized Him. Now in England you will be surprised, there is a big controversy coming up and openly they are saying that there was no immaculate conception of Christ. They say that Christ never walked on the water, that His disciples were uneducated, useless people and they just talked out of their hats.

Now why, why it has happened? If I want to tell you, it was Paul, who was not a realized soul. Why was he in the Bible? Ask the question. I ask the question, why Paul was put in the Bible. He was an epileptic, he was possessed. Then this Augustine, who came, he rationalized it again. These intellectuals cannot understand Christ, they are not divine personalities. Kahlil Gibran has written long time back that, “I don’t understand this man, a strange man Paul, who is not a free man. He talks about some things, about which he does not know. ” He said it clearly so they drove him out of the church. Rationality is such a horrible thing that it can make Christ into something nothing. And instead of understanding Christ, they start understanding this Paul or that Augustine or someone like that. So, you see, you must become the Spirit to understand Christ, otherwise you cannot understand Christ.

That is one thing very important, we must take from His life that He said that, “You are to be born again. You must have the experience of the Spirit.” That is more essential than any dogmas, any theories or anything. These are all intellectuals going with their mental projections like that. Christ was the son of God, He was an immaculate conception, His disciples were blessed by Holy Ghost. Actually, when they got the cool breeze of the Holy Ghost, then they started talking about the chakras, which is the language of a realized soul. So people said they started talking in strange languages. Now, also they said that they started moving their hands in such a way that people thought they were mad. Now you see, when you get your Realization, you will be surprised that you feel the cool breeze flowing from your hand and you try to maneuver the power with your hand by moving it in a different way, whichever way is needed. There is a technique. And even the Sahaja Yogis do the same thing, I do the same thing, but then people think they are mad. So, one must first get the experience of the Spirit. Christ came on this earth to talk of “Resurrection”. And you all are to be resurrected. That is the message of Christianity. And if you do not get your resurrection, you have failed Christ completely.

All right, now any other questions? There’s one lady. Yes, please Madam. In Milan nobody asked any questions, they just asked for Realization. It’s a difference, I tell you. Now, we shouldn’t waste too much time Madam. There are people who really want Realization also. What the question is?

Interpreter: The lady wants to thank Shri Mataji for Her presence and that She gives so much joy to her.

Shri Mataji: And she wants it. She is a sweet thing. She is a real seeker. You see, like that you have to be men of God. You should be seekers, ardent seekers. “Get me Realization Mother,” ask for it. How many arguments we have had so far? We have written so many books, we’ve fought, we’ve done everything nonsensical. Now have your Realization. All right? Should we now have it?

(Audience is making more questions)

Shri Mataji: All right. What she’s saying? All right. She is anxious. Now, now we’ve done. Sir, now please. Please be seated. No, no, no, no – I am sorry, I am sorry. Now, you write it down. You write it down. Tomorrow I will answer those who have still in their heads. You see, actually if you have too many questions you can’t get realization also, I must tell. Try to see, it is something beyond your mind. Here your mind works, you have to go beyond that. And if you do not have that desire, it is not going to help you, it is not going to help Me. You have to get what you have your own, your own wealth.

(Someone from the audience says that she doesn’t believe anybody.)

Shri Mataji: Oh it’s all right. That’s better sometimes. It’s much better. Because you see sometimes they so blindly believe that they don’t know what they are up to. It’s a very extreme cases. You believe it or not, there is God. You believe it or not, you will get your Realization. It is like sunshine. You believe it into it, you have not seen it. You don’t believe in it, you have not seen it. So both cases are just the same. It is just your mental projection. You’ve not felt it. You better feel it and then be an open-minded person. Be a scientific person. And those who have questions… (Shri Mataji talks to someone in Audience) Please sir, now sit down. We have wasted a lot of time now. Because it is … (The man in audience speaks aggressively) He is getting violent. What is the problem? Why are you so violent? Why are you so violent? I am not taking away anything from you. Why are you so violent? Why? Talk to Me slowly.

Interpreter: He said that he’s got the right to say something.

Shri Mataji: No, you have, you have a right. No doubt, I’m saying. But they also have a right. Listen now, you are one person. If you’ve got something to say, you have a right, agreed. But also there is a right of other people. What you can do, is write down your question and I will answer it tomorrow. Is it all right now? All right, let him say. He is aggressive. You are aggressive.

(The man continues arguing…)

Shri Mataji: What he says?

Interpreter: He is doing politics.

Shri Mataji: You see, this is something absurd. You see, this is a temple sir. You should not be aggressive. This is no politics going on here. Why are you aggressive? Sit down, settle down. Write down your question and I will answer it tomorrow. Please be a nice boy. Come along and sit down.

(The man goes on violently.)

Shri Mataji: What is he talking? It’s very shameful. What is he saying?

Interpreter: He is really possessed.

Shri Mataji: He is possessed.

Interpreter: He wants to know about pranic energy.

Shri Mataji: All right, you want to know about pranic energy. Tomorrow I’ll tell you. You write it down. You be a sensible man now here. You see we are talking of wisdom. There’s no use to, there is no need to aggress Me at all. Are you going to crucify Me? What did I say? I said now let us have the Realization according to, as it is you people came late so we had to start the program late. I didn’t say anything, did I? And now at least have wisdom, take your realization. And then whatever pranic things and all that, I will tell you everything. I have given at least two thousand lectures in London. In this short period, how much can I cover? You must understand this. All right, if you are really curious, you just write down and let Me know. What is there to lose temper here? Now, in Italy I have seen such wise people. The gentleman who came, what is his name, the yogi gentleman who came to see Me?

Interpreter: Carlo Patrian.

Shri Mataji: You know this gentleman is so learned, so humble. He said, “Mother just give me realization, that’s all I want.” It is knowledge, it’s like an ocean. I can not give you in one day, so you should not be angry. You write it down, I’ll let you know. Now I will handle. You have to be good children. You should not get angry. You should not get angry at all, be quiet. Be quiet. What is there to be angry? It will work out. Everything will work out.

Now, very few things we have to do, which you have to just understand that you can raise your own Kundalini. (Shri Mataji to the interpreter) Just tell them that they can raise their own Kundalini, I’ll tell them how to do it.

Now, those who want to sit for the experience should sit, otherwise you can leave. There’s no force on you. There are so many who are earnest people. You all can sit wherever you feel like, makes no difference. Be comfortable. I beg of you to be quiet. It’s the most important moment of your life. Be peaceful within yourself. Be peaceful. You must respect yourself. You are the Spirit, but you must respect.

Now, only simple things are to be done. There’s nothing much. Left hand is the power, as I said, of desire. So you have to put it all the time on the left hand side. Like this on the, your lap. You sit comfortably. Nobody has to be uncomfortable. Be comfortable. If you have anything tight here or here, you can loosen it. Take out your spectacles also, because you have to close your eyes throughout. There’s no mesmerism, nothing. You close your eyes. Something happens within yourself, you won’t even feel anything about it. You just ultimately feel the cool breeze coming out of your head. Is a very nice thing by which you’ll get your health, you’ll get your peace. Everything that you have will be manifested. All right.

(Shri Mataji talking aside) They are children, you know. Naughty children.

Left hand like this. Just what I say you just do it and you will achieve the results. Its very simple just put left hand like this. Be comfortable. First I have to comfort you. Please be comfortable. Now right hand is to be used for different chakras to be given energy. Now, the first one will be on the heart, because you are the Spirit. Second one will be in the upper part of the abdomen, because you are your own guide. Third one will be at the lower part of your abdomen, all on the left hand side on the abdomen, because you have to know the true knowledge, so you have to ask for it. I will tell you one by one. And the fourth one will be again going back upward. You will have to come here where people feel guilty, you have this problem. Then you have to go here on the Christ Chakra and at the behind of Christ here and then on top of your head you have to put your palm pressing here, moving your scalp like this. It will take about fifteen minutes. That’s all. It’s very simple. Ask your mind to settle down first of all. Settle down, settle down. It’s because it also improves eyesight. It also improves eyesight. Now, put your right hand on your heart and keep your eyes shut till I tell you. Is important, because if your eyes are not shut, the Kundalini may not rise. So the thing is, we must know that we have to get ourselves self-realized, that’s our aim of life.

Now just put your hand on the left hand side on the heart just like this. Now close your eyes. Please close your eyes. Slowly. Don’t press them, just close them, as we close. Now, at this time when you have put your hand in heart, you can ask Me a question, you can call Me “Shri Mataji” or you can call Me “Mother”. It is easier, “Madre” you can call me. Saying that, “Mother. am I the Spirit?” Ask this question three times inside your heart. Everything should be asked inside, not outside. Is a mantra, to say, “Mother, am I the Spirit,” three times. Close your eyes and ask the question inside. What is she saying?

Interpreter: She is afraid of the experience.

Shri Mataji: Are you afraid of your Mother? No, don’t be afraid. Nothing will happen. Just take it. All right. I’m looking after you. Nothing will happen. What are you afraid of? Do I look frightening? Sit down. Sit there. Now do it. Don’t be afraid. There is nothing is going to happen. It’s going to be wonderful. Do I look so frightening? All right. Put your right hand on your heart and ask a question, “Mother am I the Spirit?” Because you are the Spirit. And don’t be afraid of asking that question, because you are the Spirit. Forget the past, forget the past, forget the past. Because God Almighty is the ocean of love, ocean of compassion and ocean of forgiveness. And He loves you so much that you cannot love yourself that much. So trust in Him. Nothing will go wrong. All right. Just say, “Mother am I the Spirit?” Have confidence in yourself. You are all great people. Don’t you worry.

Now, take this hand down, keeping the left hand as it is. On the left hand side in the upper part of the abdomen. At this point, as you have asked Me the question whether you are the Spirit or not. If you are the Spirit, you are your own master. So logically you ask Me a question, “Mother am I my own master? Am I my own guru? Am I my own guide?” Three times.

Now take this right hand down on the left hand side on your abdomen. Put it and press it hard. Now, at this point you ask a question or you have to say something, which is – I have to confess that I cannot force you to ask for true knowledge. You have to say, “Mother, please give me true knowledge.” If you say six times, the Kundalini will start rising. Just say that. In the lower part of the left abdomen. Press it hard and say it six times. Hah. It’s good. All right.

Now, with full confidence in yourself, because you have asked for it. I’ll tell you the true knowledge is simple. To understand that, you put your right hand on the left hand side of the upper part of the abdomen again. Now with full confidence you have to say, which is a mantra, “Mother, I am my own master. Mother, I am my own guide. I am my own guru.” Ten times. Hah, good. Now, say it ten times please. These are the ten valences we have as human beings.

Now with the same faith in yourself and confidence, you put your right hand on your heart again. Forget about the past. Whatever you have done just forgive yourself. And now you please say twelve times, “Mother I am the Spirit.” You are the Spirit, just say, “Mother I am the spirit.” Twelve times, assert.

Now, raise your right hand onto the base of the neck on the shoulder and just place it hard. Press it hard. Take it at the back a little bit. From the front side. Hold it tight. Now this is a center, which is affected when we feel guilty. As I have told you that God Almighty is the ocean of love, is the ocean of forgiveness. So you please forgive yourselves and say sixteen times with full confidence, “Mother I am not guilty.” If you are too much seriously believing that you are guilty, you better punish yourself by saying 108 times. You have to be cheerful. You are entering into the Kingdom of God.

Now raise your right hand on the forehead across. On your forehead across, fully. At this time you have to say, “Mother I forgive everyone.” From your heart. Now, some may think that saying like that is not easy, but when you don’t say, what do you do? You are harming yourself. Nobody else.

All right. Now take this hand at the back of your head and hold it tight, back of your head. Again without feeling guilty, you have to say that, “If I have done any mistakes, oh Lord, please forgive me,” but don’t feel guilty at all about it. From this side, back of the head. Don’t open your eyes, just keep them closed. Kundalini is coming up, slowly, slowly, She is rising.

Now put your right hand please, on top of your head, on the fontanel bone area, pressing with the palm and moving it in a clockwise manner. Press it hard. Now at this point again, I cannot cross your freedom. So you have to ask seven times, “Mother, please give me Realization. I want my Spirit.”

(Mother blows into the microphone seven times)

Now change your hand. Bring your right hand below and left hand on your head.

H.H. Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi