Talk to Sahaja Yogis, Children and Other Topics, Ashram

Perth (Australia)


Talk to Sahaja Yogis on education, ashram of Perth, Australia, 2 March 1985.


[Tape 1]
Shri Mataji: … or any sleeping of what?
Sahaja Yogini: No, he has had.
Shri Mataji: He?
He must be tired, poor thing, you see, he’s been with Me for such a long time. I’m all right because I know how to manage, but for him it is too much marathon.
Shri Mataji: The [inaudible] is at home.
[Shri Mataji is laughing]
Some I got for the Sahaja Yogis there, a glass, was very beautiful and quite cheap. And they like all those things. The tumblers and I brought some cups and saucers, they really like them.

Because yet, we are not so good at crockery and it’s very expensive, whatever is very good is. You see, mostly, it is exported to Russia, so we don’t get good quality things available for general persons. Only very rich can buy. I mean, a good tea set would cost not less than fifty pounds, sixty pounds there. I mean and this, whatever you give is so good for them and they like it, unbreakable stuff that you bought. That was from France.


I bought the saris and everything from there and also these cups and saucers to be given to them. That’s the things they like the most. And they’ve got all these cups and saucers all intact and sometimes, they use it only for Me. I said: “It has been given for you, while you use it only for Me?”
[Shri Mataji is laughing]
To them, it is more valuable than even silver sometimes.
Sahaja Yogini: They have so much dote [unsure]
Shri Mataji: Silver, they have quite a lot, it’s quite cheap and also in every family, they have some sort of a silver. So, to them, silver is not so great.
And importing anything is so difficult that if new people come the customs are extremely kind
[Shri Mataji is laughing] You don’t have to bother, you just walk through.


Now, one of My concerns are the children here, who are very young and I think the children of this country or any one of the western countries, are to be looked after in a proper way. I have already given some notes and I think that it is being circulated from London. I hope you people have got those notes which Louise has done.

But one thing you must insist on is the massaging of the body, that’s important until about five years of age. Every day the child must be properly massaged, the body must be massaged, then they become quiet children.
Secondly, I find that this portion of head, if it is not covered properly with oil of children, then they get into troubles. So what you have to do is to put some oil on this part on the fontanel bone area, quite a lot on the sides also, every day and push it there like that. And if you want you can wash the hair, if you don’t want, you need not wash. But, it can be washed also with a shampoo or something which is not so, I mean, something very soft. You might get some baby shampoo or something, but the best thing would be to put the oil, that’s important. Oiling is best done when they are young and if you oil them properly you will be surprised, they will be very quiet children and they won’t trouble you.
You have seen Indian children? You never feel that. If they are sitting in the program, they are listening to Me, I don’t know what they understand, and they keep so quiet, absolutely, and very attentive. I don’t know how far they understand, but they feel the vibrations I think. So it is important that you must massage their body.


Also, their sleeping times, I think, are rather early, you make them sleep. So, if they sleep very early you must make them get up also. Otherwise, it is no use, then they will have long time sleeping. Then, if they don’t sleep early, later on, they will get up very late also. So the best thing is to make them sleep at a time, say at about 10 o’clock if they sleep, or 9 o’clock, they sleep, they should not sleep more than ten hours and they should be awakened after that. If they sleep, let’s say about 7:30, then 10 hours would be about time.
Sahaja Yogini: Right.
Shri Mataji: That time they don’t get up. So put it about, say, 8 o’ clock and wake them up at 6 [am] is a good idea. If you do that, then they’ll be very good and the problem will be solved better.

Sahaja Yogini: [Inaudible].
Shri Mataji: Hum?
Sahaja Yogini: Up to what age is it good?
Shri Mataji: I think until they are about twelve years of age. Until the twelve years of ages, you see, the sternum bone still is realizing the antibodies and that is important at this time to give them all the securities that they need and all the love that they want. But, if they do anything wrong, you must tell them it is wrong.
You must bear it. You must bear it, you must tell them: “This is wrong. You should not do that, not this.” So that the children become, you see, obedient about it and understand what they have to do.
Because if you allow them to go the way they like, then, they’ll have no sense of obedience. And whatever it is, we should not allow children to have their own way, that’s a wrong idea you people have.
Till the age of twelve years, they must be properly brought up, not too much of love, not too much of these things that all the time they can think that they can be taken granted for. But love means looking after, massaging, servicing, I mean kindliness and also keeping them to yourself. They can sleep with you, all this is all right. But too much love means, you see, sort of spoiling, spoiling them: they want to do what they like, they want to get up whenever they feel like, they want to spoil anything. They should not be allowed. And then they will be nice. Because what is the difference between Indian children and the Western children is this, that Indian children are extremely constructive and the Western children are destructive, quite often.


I have experienced it now. See, my grandchildren would come home and I mean I don’t have to tell them. One day, the youngest one drop something on the carpet and she was busy cleaning it up, I mean she would not give up. She said: “I must clean it up, why did I spoil it?” You see, on her own, she was doing it. And if they see something untidy they will put it right, if they see something misplaced, they’ll put it right, they know what things are there.
This is a constructive way of looking at things. You see, when the guests are there they’ll run up to the place, get things and they’ll try to open the door for them, but not that they’ll open the door of the lift or go and touch some electrical points, not that. Their mind goes to the right thing, perhaps, maybe because of massage and all that, their nerves are very soothed down and they understand. And they keep very quiet.

This is one thing one has to learn about children, you have to serve them, really, when they are young, you have to serve them, pay attention to them. But they should not exploit.
Like your child, you remember, when she was traveling with Me in the train I thought he was very demanding. All the time she had to talk to him, tell him some stories, do this. I said: “Don’t do that, you are giving too much attention to the child, making too much out of him and that’s why he’s demanding your attention all the time. Now, he must know he has to play with himself, he has to be with himself, and then he’ll improve.”
Otherwise, it was, I mean she, poor thing, she was, she didn’t know what to do, she was trying to please him all the time, just to see that the child is happy and doesn’t disturb. But that’s not the way: just don’t talk, just stop talking, first that.
And the questions also, children should not be allowed to ask questions: “Why?”. It’s very common here to ask: “Why?” That’s not their job to ask you all the time questions, that’s not their style, because it’s very wrong, because that gives a very big ego to them.

From very childhood, what are they asking about “why?”, why do they want to know about everything? Gradually everyone knows everything. Like on the road you are going, they will ask “What is this?”, “What is this?”, “What is this?”, there is no need to tell them. There’s no need to tell them everything that is on the road, when they’re grown up they’ll know about it. But they want to know and it’s a kind of a postering that they develop, a posturing temperament. But, you yourself should say that this is this tree, this is that, even when they are grown up, then you have to tell them. What’s the use of telling them in their childhood also, all these things, they forget it.

So too much of knowledge, filling in the head, injecting it, is not necessary. The children should not be pushed with too much of knowledge. Because if you push too much of knowledge into their heads, they will also become confused and then they will be in trouble. So let them be as they are, tell them whatever is necessary.
At a very young age, I feel that in the West, we give them too much of unnecessary knowledge. There’s no need to know what name of the grass is this one, what’s the name of this grass, I mean, they are not going to become gardeners.

Gradually let them develop that proper sense. But aesthetics you can teach them, by saying: “This is good, that is good.”
“I like it” if they say, “No, “I like it” is not good: “I should like.” You see, they must learn not to say: “I like it, I like it.”

Also, in the morning time you give them too much choice: “What will you have?” Nothing doing. Whatever is good for every child should be eaten by everyone. “What will you have?”, So they will say: “I will have rice thing.”, another one will say: “No”. What’s the difference? It is the same. “I’ll have popcorn”, I’ll have that.” All ego developement.
That is how people become so egotistical, or I should say, ego oriented. Suddenly, they jump onto a horse, you know. You do anything to them, if you are kind to them, they jump on a horse. Suddenly, they become so- I mean, you can’t understand them.

I mean, if you are kind to somebody, you should be obliged and you should feel that they have been kind. Instead of that, they think: “Oh ! I must be the Lord of the whole world.” It happens. The reason is this, from early childhood they are not to keep to themselves the way they are. Why should they have choices? In the morning whatever is cooked they should have. Why should there be choice? And choice is one thing that leads you to ego.
I mean in America, as I told you, every tile is different, it’s all right, that looks nice, doesn’t matter. But: “I like it.” Then, another fellow won’t buy the house: “Because I don’t like the tiles”. “I like this very much, I do not like this.”
Just like yesterday, the gentleman said that if somebody doesn’t want to have – like to have a personal God. I mean if he doesn’t want to have, let him go to Hell, that’s all one can answer! [Shri Mataji is laughting].
You see, I mean, you cannot say: “I like this” or “I like a God like this”. “I want God to hang by the tree”. Is it going to be done for the liking of a person? And that’s how a person becomes absolutely arbitrary and out of the collective. So this is what one has to teach the children, “I like” is not allowed, “I like”.
“I hate” it is a very wrong word, children should never learn such a bad word like “I hate”. It should be told that our language has to be good, we are all Sahaja Yogis. We have to use very good language and we are not to get angry. We have to have gracious language, because that’s very important.

I think, even grown up Sahaja Yogis, you see, sometimes behave in such a funny manner when they get into fights you see. Of course, nowadays, they don’t use their claws, but still, the way they talk sometimes to each other, I am amazed how can they talk like this? How can you talk when you are understanding that you are Sahaja Yogis, you are saints and you have to talk like saints, in a gracious manner. Not in a temper, not in a degrading manner or in any way putting them down. Even with your children, if you talk to them with dignity – like you see, when we have to scold children, we give them more dignity. We say like in English ‘”thou”, we say “thou”. “Now thou will you be seated.” For the child, it’s a fright: “What have I done?”

Instead of using “you” we use “thou”, you see? “You the sir come along.” So the sir gets upset: “Why? What have I done?”You see, and that’s how we scold our servants also we scold like that, so they get a fright, “Why is it today it is said.” But not to use abuses, not to use anything bad, not to beat children. If they are extremely funny, arrogant, then it is all right, once in a while it’s all right, sometimes you need to slap them.
Some of the children are really very sinister type. That’s all right but, that’s very rarely because most of them are Realized souls and they won’t trouble you so much, I’m sure they will come round.

Now the husband and wife also should not quarrel too much, I think. There’s no need to quarrel, it’s better to keep quiet. If there is any argument, just keep quiet, it will work out. Quarrelling, shouting is not allowed to Sahaja Yogis. Moreover, in the presence of children you should never show that. Whatever happens, happens within yourself, come out of it and be kind to each other, in the presence of children it should not be seen. Sometimes, of course, they want to give a vent to their temper or something, but gradually you will find with Sahaja Yoga as it grows, your temper will calm down. You will see the whole joke and laugh at it and it will really be alright.
But it happens like that with people, when you start correcting each other especially, you don’t like it to be corrected. Better look after it on individual side. And, too much concern- say: “Mother, my wife is like this, now what to do?” Forget it. See, she has to improve she’ll improve. But if you go on all the time bothering Me or bothering anyone it is no good.
Because your husband has no meaning in Sahaja Yoga that way, because your husband is your husband as long as he behaves himself. And your wife is your wife till she behaves herself as a Sahaja Yogini. Otherwise, she is no more there, it is like that. So it is better to leave him alone or leave her alone. And don’t bother too much about it, how the wife is, how the husband is and this and that, because that’s another, you see, a trap that you fall into and go into another circle.
So better shoot off straight that: “I have to develop myself individually higher and higher I have no traps, nothing. Others have to improve, if they see me improve, they will improve.” And we have other secret ways of improving other relations so we should try all those. But not to save us because by arguments, by saying things, we are not going to improve. That’s how our family system is going to improve it.


We should also get to our parents and other people who are related to us, brothers and sisters, if it is possible. But in case they are not fitted, just forget it. Just have nothing to do, have nothing to do with them. They are nowhere there, they do not exist for you. Try to show that you are not their relations, gradually you will see we have no relations. And because your responsibility finishes at the time when they refuse to come to God. So that’s what it is. And this is the greatest thing you want to give to your relations. You tell them: “This is the greatest thing that you can have from us.” We give presents, say, we give them money, we give them parties, dinners, all that, it is of no value. “What we are going to give you is the highest and why not take the highest? And that is what we have to give you, why not take that?” Like that, if you talk to them, but in a way that’s not fanatic, in a loving, affectionate manner, as if you really want to do something good to them and then it will work out.

These relations, also some relations are like that. I mean, I should say my relations, one and all, were never near Sahaja Yoga. Gradually, one by one, they started coming in. I didn’t bother, it doesn’t matter. I was absolutely alone. Some of them opposed Me very much. Even now, I find sometimes it happens, doesn’t matter. There’s nothing important. You should have your own way, in the sense that you know what you are doing. But don’t be harsh with them, don’t be unkind, send them a Christmas card, you can send, just send them some presents, flowers. Like that, the gestures of goodness can be done. But not to spoil them, they should not take you for granted, and on the contrary your gesture should bring them round.

Gradually you will find that they will lose interest in you then you should lose interest in them.
So it’s not important to play with your relations and play with your family so much. Of course, now we are Sahaja Yoga family naturally it is important that we should also be good and we should have very good relationships with each other, no doubt about it. But for that, how far to go is a discretion which one must have that “how far to go?” Most important thing is how far you go with yourself.


So now this is in relationship I’ve told you about, to your children and to your families and other members of your family. Then the members of your neighborhood also if there is somebody sick, you can go and help them. I think you can put up a board here saying “Kundalini Awakening” is there or something. If possible, put up a board like that and maybe that people may like to come to Sahaja Yoga for good health. “Good health and wealth” something like that you can put it, people will come now to do Sahaja Yoga. And that’s how they’ll come round. So better have it. I think it will be a good idea to have a big- what you call that-
Sahaja Yogini: Big board.
Shri Mataji: Not poster. Better board.
Sahaja Yogi: Signboard.
Shri Mataji: Signboard. But a big huge thing so that people come starting coming to you and you start working it out for them. So the neighbors will come. Then you can start a school here, for the neighbors here, for the little children, you have so many little children. And you can start a little school here that can work out for children. They will have some good company. It will be very nice, you see.
You should love each others children very much, there should be no sort of a disparity or you should not show that you love your child more. The child should be attached to everyone, it’s the sign of a good child.

Now, in the relationships with your neighbors, you should be careful with people who are troublesome, give them- beat them with shoes and give them bandhans, this, that, then they’ ll quieten. But those who are good people, talk to them nicely, smile at them, tell them so they will come round and you can create a feeling of brotherliness with your neighbors. You have to be kind with your neighbors, that’s very important.

But “Love thy neighbor as thy self” means only after Realization, because they become part and parcel of you. But the neighbor has to be a Realized soul. If he’s not, he’s no more a neighbour to you. So try to get out as soon as possible in the neighborhood.

Then to your city also, you have to see what’s going on in the city. What’s there, how many organizations are there, what are they doing? How many types of people are doing meditation, find out from them what they’re doing, attend their meetings. Tell them it’s not true, you must not believe into all these things, these are hoax people and whatever you can talk about them can talk. Tell them what you have suffered from. Like now the raktabeja is coming, some of you can go and sort of protest that: “You’re the one who has given problems to so many.” Like that, you see, you can just say that or something like that.


So all that can be done. And find out those people who are lost, they are hippies and things. You can go and talk to them and get some of them to go with you and all other seekers who are around, you should go out and find out about them.
And then you should also talk to people like the other one I met in the radio, he’s a seeker. You see, such people in all [unsure] places, they matter, like you can talk to them, you can go and talk to the Mayor of this place. We did that in Reding and all that, these mayors are very helpful, very kind. And to police officers, [tell] that we want to be good citizens, we are good people we want to do this and if you find anybody like that, we’ll try to help. We were like this and we were helped by this. They will be good, I mean, to the Government, people also if you talk, they will understand.

Now, in India, the Government is extremely kind to Me and somehow or other they’ve recognized Me. And I can establish your “bona fides” also. When they ask you what I am they will know that I am a “bona fide” of a Government Service, and all that. So, that’s how you can establish.
Like yesterday, when Warren was talking to them about Me, you see, they felt something “bona fide” with this lady. That’s how. So, this is how it works out.
And then, about having the programs, you must arrange programs, you must have a kind of campaign to go round and talk to people and tell them about it. They should know that you exist. Of course, we cannot do like Hare Rama Hare Krishna, stand in the streets and do misbehave.
But we should go and we should talk to teachers and other institutions and tell them that if there are children who are difficult, we’ll try to treat them and be helping out, it’s like that.

Then another thing could be that you have to get to people who have suffered on account of all the gurus. You can advertise in the newspaper : “Those who have suffered on account of going to some Gurus can be rectified” or something. And then, take information from them, write it down, whatever information you get and we- you can form an organization which gives information about these gurus, what they’re up to, sort of. Michel [unsure], there is one organization like that already, just in Paris which is worked out by Marie and her husband, and all that.
But we can have an international connection like that. So all of you can work it out, what they’re doing to people and what’s happening.
Then also a newsletter is a good idea, if you can take out a newsletter. Like, now, I’ve come here, you can send a message to people that Mother came and it was very, very hot and turbulent. We told Her that it’s very hot, then She said: “I’ll do something about”, and She slept off. And then in the evening, it was all cool. How things worked out.
All these things if you write to Nirmala Yoga also, they’ll write it down and send it to Me.

Like that you see, so that you are in circulation, you send your names to people. Actually, I don’t even have your photographs. I think you all should have a photograph in a proper album and send it over to Me so that I can go through it.

So many things can be done. Now as it is you have seen how we have worked it out with some tricks you see, getting some people over here. In the same way, you have to try some more tricks and see that more people come in.
Where is Jess [unsure], where he is gone? Ha.
So this is what Jess has been trying to tell you that have an open heart and an open place and an open house for people to come down here, receive them. But you should – they should know you exist in the – maybe that if you want, you can take to some sort of a dress or something, maybe white you should wear more or something like that, which will appeal to them more, something like that.
I don’t know what attracts the attention of these people, you can’t be punks, but [laughting]. But they should know that you exist and that we’re doing something about it.

So on various levels you should see what you can do all the time. You must think about it, what you can do for the future. Who can you see? Which one of you can go and see? The officers, if you see somebody’s sick, can you go and help them? Some people went and helped a cinema actress in Bombay, and that gave us big booster.


So this is how I’m sorry, I couldn’t talk to you much more before and the time was spent more on correcting the problems of this household. This house has problems and I think that if you do some havan here it would be a good idea. And also if you can get some lemons for Me which have not been cut or anything, then I’ll just vibrate it. And if you put them in four corners, maybe you might get a lemon tree that might protect you. But now it’s all right, it’s much better. It’s much better, it’s not so bad as it was before. And you did a very good job yesterday I must say, the way it was decorated [inaudible].

Now, you can bring the things that you bought to be given to Me. Yesterday you see, I went shopping for three reasons, something I have to buy for myself, something for you and something for the Indian Sahaja Yogis. Because you see, in the pujas they give you something and I want to return something that they have given Me. And for you people I have given now only something to the Sydney people, some silver lamps. I’ve given some silver lamps, you must have seen them. It’s a two silver lamps.
Like that, now you have given Me, about, they say they have collected four hundred dollars for the Puja. So, I thought: “What’s the use of taking the money? I should buy something sensible which I’ll have all the time with Me.” I’ll have written on it something like “Presented by the Perth Sahaja yogis.”

It’s a very nice thing made in Australia, that’s the point is, to find something made in Australia is very difficult, I was so fed up yesterday. And then I found lots of things made in Australia, I was very happy. They are doing a good job, I must say. They’re quite decorative by temperament and really, really, they are doing a very good job.

I don’t know from where they get this silver. But the priorities of people are so funny. [Laughting].
We found plastic the most expensive and then the glass and then the crystal which is molded and the cheapest was the crystal that was hand cut. And the silver plated was the cheapest.