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Auckland (New Zealand)

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Informal Talk, Centre in Auckland, New Zealand 1985-03-04

[UNCLEAR] very close to Left Swadishthan, very close to Left Swadishthan.

See this [UNCLEAR N INAUDIBLE] – We’ve felt quite often we have our open right heart. – Right heart? Right heart will be those people, who came and killed many people This was a major center of colonizing [UNCLEAR] – the organizing for the colonizing of countries started from this. It was all… – Did they come here to the Spaniards or…? – The money was here, the banks were here, the organizers were here – Oh, I see, that’s how.. – That sorted [UNCLEAR] – Oh, – and even when the government shifted to Wellington, it was still – it was still Auckland which … – worked it out. – [UNCLEAR] I feel that, you see, all things, these things are of the past and we have a special category of human-beings born now-a-days. – Come to the Feet. – You can now use that one, if you want. – ….. while they’re decorating the Feet [UNCLEAR] – Now you can put it there in there, in that. – [UNCLEAR] – Yeah All the colors of My feet are there – yellow and the red.

What’s that flower is? – It’s [UNCLEAR] – Annh? – Beautiful, isn’t it? – Yes. You don’t get this in India. [UNCLEAR] they always [UNCLEAR] But the vibrations are like that. – This is Warren’s idea. – What is his idea? [UNCLEAR – SAREE IS THE…?] .- May God bless you!

Mother, it’s a great privilege for us to have You here. – May God… Ladies can also [UNCLEAR] Such a great thing! I was just thinking – normally, I could never have thought of New Zealand being visited, but for you and for your efforts. Yes, you all have to go for it in a double way. – Warren wanted to be [UNCLEAR] – What is [UNCLEAR] – Probably, they got it in the same amount that they had – everything – so many; They’ll show you all of them. – We decided to buy among those [UNCLEAR] for Mother, for the marriages in Sydney. We had enough left time to buy something to go with it for New Zealand [UNCLEAR]. – Mother, for presenting [UNCLEAR] – Alright – the price has to be removed. – Just take the tag out. – You have to double it, you have to double it This is a nice color.

What do you call this color? Is this we call it onion color – pyaji – Mushroom – Mushroom – Mushroom? Mushrooms have this color? – Yes, yes. – Do they? Alright. – The beauty, isn’t it, Mother? – Very beautiful, I tell you, really. What a choice! – Yeah.

Is a beautiful sari. You see, we had gone for that bumper sale, where we got everything very cheap and then Warren had an idea, that he should buy something for every center that is beautiful. Alright. [UNCLEAR] now you double it. Yes, now take it around, back [UNCLEAR] – See, one of you come around here. Take it through – That’s better. – Put it over, wrap it around Make it double. It’s beautiful. I tell you, that color is so beautiful. Really, the most beautiful one you gave it to Auckland.

Yeah – [UNCLEAR] – Can you [UNCLEAR] it Mother? – [UNCLEAR] It’s really beautiful! It’s like a lotus – the color is. This thing is another; Just came as a by-product. [UNCLEAR] It’s nice – isn’t it? – This is beautiful; It’s beautiful! – [UNCLEAR] – We can say it beautiful but also Mother, we are offering it to You, Shri Mataji – we didn’t, we didn’t choose it but we’re very grateful that his choice – It’s very delicate and nice, really – Everyone has seen it. – Seen it – alright. Thank you very much, thank you. May God bless you!

You like the design? Isn’t it nice? [UNCLEAR – RARE STONE?] – We just have to buy, Mother, a nice little chain – That we’ll buy; Mother can buy something also [UNCLEAR – THIS TYPE OR THIS TIME?] May God bless you! It’s beautiful, this one is a beautiful sari It’s really beautiful! I wish people also become warm like this. I think, My eyes were closed when he took one for Me. You must take the whole – that’s the way. That’s the best.

Cheryl is a great photographer – I know she is. Yes, you did some very good ones even. This little Matthews is another one. I don’t know how he gets it so spontaneously – beautiful photographs! [UNCLEAR CONVERSATION BETWEEN YOGIS] – [UNCLEAR] this is the one and another one just before this. – Yes – Is just, I tell you, so beautiful – There were three with the, with us – beautiful – Thank you. Om Twameva Saakshaat Shri Mahalaxmi, Maha Saraswati Maha Kali, Trigunatmika, Kundalini saakshaat, Shri Adishakti Mataji, Shri Nirmala Devi namo namah. Om Twameva Saakshaat Shri Kalki Saakshaat Shri Adishakti Mataji Shri Nirmala Devi namo namah Om Twameva Saakshaat Shri Kalki Saakshaat Shri Sahasrara Swamini Moksh Pradayini Mataji Shri Nirmala Devi namo namah Shri Nirmala Devi namo namah Shri Nirmala Devi namo namah Shri Nirmala Devi namo namah Bolo Shri Bhagwati Mataji Shri Nirmala Devi ki jai! May God bless you! – This is a camera or… – Video, video, Shri Mataji – I see – That shows there wrapped up in the lotus Yes It’s very good.

Is this the same video or is a different? It’s different – isn’t it? It’s coming out very well. Very good, very clear. [UNCLEAR – SO?] very clear. Brian’s in the business – it should be. [SHRI MATAJI LAUGHS] First thing about using machinery and nothing about, nothing Like Me; I’m so bad, I’m very bad at it. See, machinery I just can’t think of, really. Just don’t know what is machinery is really because…. it’s very good, it’s coming out very well.

It has to be in an angle all the time? – No, so You can see it, Mother. – That’s the thing is, yes. It’s very good. It’s so nice to be here again. I have to come again once more. I was telling him how we are going to manage that. – You have to get an around the world tour – You see, it is true. What you said Me that, “People are so conditioned and absolutely frozen into it,” but we shouldn’t worry about those people. They are not all – they are very few, actually, such people are.

The people who, they may be at the helm of affairs, they might be the controlling people and all that, on the whole, I think that, the general public, you see, has that feeling still – they can be brought around. I told you, fifty percent of Australia, I have a feeling, are seekers – – fifty percent are seekers – Hmm, that’s tremendous. but they’re lost. I’m not saying that they are all available to Sahaja Yoga but they’re lost but they are. – They’re like lost sheep – they are to be found. – We have to start a campaign – that’s all. We have to really start a campaign. Can start a campaign; You can do it, no doubt. A message came through last night from [UNCLEAR] from Warren, saying that You had said that campaigning was necessary and that [UNCLEAR] to a certain extent actions today with the press – normally are very civilized, quite straightforward and they – [UNCLEAR CONVERSATION] – [UNCLEAR] indecent – today I [UNCLEAR] quite strong about, “Campaigning, campaigning in there?” so I was [UNCLEAR] But you have to get after them, the way they are, you see.

They are so much used to protests and so much used to very heavy blasting that they cannot stand, I mean, they cannot understand that there could be mild people, there are people who are trying to just go out in a very beautiful way but, I think, if the Truth is not accepted, you have to break many things, you have to break many things because it will manifest itself by breaking so many things – you’ll better to warn them, better to warn them. Only shackles will be left out of them. If it has to come out it will come out and come out in a very big way and they’ll be left untold. It’s better to tell them openly; Better to tell them that this is what it is; Is the Last Judgment, no doubt. As it is so many things are happening like, now they are challenging Christ and His Immaculate birth, His about His miracles – everything is under challenge so what are they talking now? So they, after some time they’ll have to make Mr. Paul as they will come out Pauleen religion. I don’t know what’s the meaning of Paul in Hebrew or in Roman language. – It’s a Roman.. – Maybe, it’s the one who’s seen the light. Paul, cannot [UNCLEAR] because it was in his name before that – see in the light – not has been the light. – He was Soul of Tarsus.

He was what? – Soul of Tarsus. – What’s that? – That’s his name. – That’s Turkey – Tarsus was Turkey and he was of the Greek He was a Greek, he was a Jew of the D’Aspro which means [UNCLEAR] of Judiah and he was really, what we call Turkey. – He was Turkish? – You know why, yes, that [UNCLEAR] – He belonged to Rome. He belonged to the Roman Empire as a citizen but also was a Greek because he was part of Turkey which was then owned by the Greek Empire. – He became Paul after his – Oh, I see – after the Buddha came, – Then he became Paul. after he hit his head on a stone, after he fell off a horse, after he top of a donkey, had a [UNCLEAR] changed one hallucination for another That’s how he became Paul.

Paulo is an Italian name. – Paulo, means what? – It’s folk. – Annh? – Folk, as we call it So, he called himself an Italian then. First he was Greek, then he became the Turk, then … I tell you – He was a Greek Turk who was a Jew and a Roman citizen. – Luckily the Turks, the Turks are not so traditional people – why? – He’s not very traditional, Mother. – but Greeks are.

Greeks are traditional, so how can he be Greek? [UNCLEAR] Must be something, you see, because what I’m saying, that see this Turk, Turkey might have been captured later on by Greek people might have, they might have extended but there’s no similarity in their faces or in anything but very different people to look at. – The whole Empire extended there, the cultural in the Greeks there – the education, the language – Hmm – It seemed to override – but Turks do not speak Greek language – They used to, Mother, they used to. – Achcha, but not now. – After this Kemal Pasha they speak some other, it’s a – We had Mahamadim, MahaIslama is the – Tonight [UNCLEAR] – Yes, that will be nice – Why don’t you take this? – Alright. It’s a beautiful sari actually – color is so nice – Wipe My feet, I think, with a towel. This is the towel you can wipe – [UNCLEAR] you can wash Them also – No, it’s alright. Just wipe it fully [UNCLEAR] I can do it. Yes, yes, yes – They are very sturdy feet.

Very sturdy feet – [UNCLEAR] – They have worked very hard. Yesterday specially, see how that man I put all My feet and all that Isn’t it a beautiful combination? Thank you. May God bless you! We were just planning that supposing we go, we take a tour like come to America and then travel with the Sun, you see, then come to Auckland, Australia back – will be better; He was saying, “Yes, that way.” “You travel with the Sun – will be better,” he was saying. I don’t know, this year, I don’t know what’s going to happen. As it is, 250 people, you know what it was. – Terrible! – Tremendous, tremendous!

You came to Brahmapuri, Veedo? – you were not in them. Oh, that was the best part – that was the climax and then the second one came when we went to – Bordi, Bordi marriages. Who was there, one of you, any one of…? – David. David was our representative, who was there right through. – Oh, I see. – He’s in England now. He’s gone home to England to spend little time with his parents. – and he’ll be back here in New Zealand in.. – He sent presents for you, your – Yes, we received almost beautiful [UNCLEAR] – he gave you for the Pujas and the things – beautiful, beautiful!

But you know they are so particular about customs and things the last time that when they came to Australia they brought everything and just walked through They came like traders, nobody asked them – but you people they don’t ask. The, you see, the residents they don’t ask much but they thought I was an Indian maybe I’m carrying narcotics or something. Rather unnerving Shri Mataji that New Zealand should be the one place, the first place where You’re – asked to open Your luggage – Yes, because one becomes – the customs people search but they were really tired, you know, taking out everything, fixing up everything, they were tired. I said, “I’m sorry for the trouble you have to take – really don’t know what to [UNCLEAR] How can they find a narcotic in, in searching a place like that? – they cannot. I don’t know what they were looking out for – just can’t understand. – They – I don’t know what circumstances are. A diplomatic luggage is never – Never – but what were they looking out for? This is something I can’t still understand because the way they saw, you see, here and there and just pushed their hands here and there – what can you get? if you have to carry narcotics, you have to go into the – isn’t it?

Under a [UNCLEAR] they should see. – No answer. – I just don’t know what were they looking for. See, the story about this is that, they wanted Me to buy a mangalsutra, you see, so we went – they’re very expensive; This one is about fourteen thousand rupees, you see. so I said, “May get, may not get, I don’t know,” but they had a little small thing in that amount and that too silver and this. I said, “Why do you want to waste all this money I have already got one thing with the diamonds, so let’s buy something else, you see.” then suddenly I turned around that shop – all kind of junk was selling. So, suddenly I turned around and what I see, this little piece this form and next to that was another one, which is another very beautiful thing, which you will be surprised to see that it is made of the same, what you call that – coral – red coral; I was very amazed, I said, “This is here,” – I had never seen anything made like this in India, so brought it and that one and this one and a mangalsutra – three put together is the price of that – that one little thing that and such a beautiful piece it – Warren – is he there? It’s a kitchen, is it? It’s a huge place.

Kitchen is very big; Is that the kitchen? – Kitchen is very big. – Sorry, Mother? – Kitchen is very big. Is it a kitchen or a dining-room? – Sort of very well planned and nice – Very nice! Now I was saying show them the coral thing you got from there – Yes I’m telling them the story of mangalsutra – everything in coral; this is coral, that one in coral – just imagine! – And this was all in the same place? – Same place and that too was a Sunday, all the shops were closed only we had to go to Dadar to this shop and there we find this, you see, Sahaja – it is so Sahaja you can’t imagine; We just can’t believe it. And he was worrying, “Mother, it’s Sunday, how will we..” We said, “Alright, I’ll arrive at that point – let’s see.”

And there these things we got for the same price that we’d just have bought one mangalsutra. One better than the other – it’s miracles after miracles [UNCLEAR] the art, you see. This is the mangalsutra see now, see, very nice with the coral. – This is the mangalsutra which we bought – [UNCLEAR] – [UNCLEAR] in gold – It’s nice we bought yours – Yes, yes – Just let them see. [UNCLEAR] all the deities are very helpful to you, that’s what I can say. It’s very different from others – done well. – This is another – [UNCLEAR] – Oh! – Just look at that! – This is. – this goes with the mangalsutra.

Just look at that – in the same price – can you believe it? – Did You tell her, Mother, about we found a little mangalsutra like the one You’re wearing – Yes, yes – quite as good as the one as She has Yes a very small, very small, much smaller than this and that too a silver thing and all that in, so – we were not very happy with it – just see that. It’s a piece of art and they said that, “It’s been with us for many days, many years and this we cannot make, we cannot make again, we cannot repeat it even if You want us to, we cannot repeat it.” – [UNCLEAR] color of great gold. – This is 22 carat gold again – real gold – Now this is another story – This is all part of it the – [UNCLEAR] – of one piece – out of the one piece we got three pieces. It is, it is most auspicious that this should be a combination of gifts because both Australia and New Zealand – are part of the same energy in the Universal sense – That’s what I’m saying – it is so. and also of coral means it’s Ganesha’s. the coral to find, see, in the shop there were no corals, nothing, suddenly, these three pieces came up. – [UNCLEAR CONVERSATION] – That’s all, it’s good. What’s that?

That’s some ginger [UNCLEAR – COOKIE?] Something sugary if you have [UNCLEAR] If you have any [UNCLEAR CONVERSATION] – So well done! – This is the – This is another miracle. – This is the gift that we’re all getting from [UNCLEAR] – This is another miracle also, just see that – For Haiwatha – Silver pearl – queen of the Universe. Like [UNCLEAR] – Warren has a special gift, I must say. And I’m telling him, “Don’t buy. Now, three you have bought, now don’t buy this, I’m feeling shy.” “This is but for birthday, Mother,” I said, “Forget it.” Isn’t it, [UNCLEAR] in the same amount – can you imagine – a little thing like that – even a smaller than that – than what She’s wearing – what I’m wearing – about three – much smaller – all these three things came in that amount. It was a coral day, I tell you.

So much beautiful! – Isn’t it? See the workmanship. This is very beautiful, this one and every piece is different. – Just let the camera have a look at it. – Add the other pieces. – Let [UNCLEAR] And they said, “We can’t make it for You any other. This is the only one we have. We cannot make it.” – See this one – see the workmanship – The [UNCLEAR] – Yeah – It’s just beautiful [UNCLEAR] !

Snuggle little look – Warren is very good. – Bring it [UNCLEAR] put it in front of the camera – just let it see. – He’s luckier than Me; If I want to buy, I cannot get things. – Turn around. – I think this is made here – isn’t it? – Yeah – Made from Australia, made here – Made in New Zealand. Haan, just see how did I know. – It is, it is actually painted by a relation of [NAME UNCLEAR] specially for You. – haan, I see – beautiful! – Very good paint – Her realization last year – these daisies are there – three daisies.

It’s very beautiful! They don’t make things like that, normally but in Australia, I found [UNCLEAR] like that – Who made those – now the ones you gave Me? – Cups, Mother? – Not cups, the plates. – Oh, Joe – Joe – Joe Robin Reeds, Mother – We have two [UNCLEAR] and two pujas as well – Oh, is it [UNCLEAR] – [UNCLEAR] – That’s awesome! – She’s very generous too. – She’s so generous – Did you each of these pieces costs of, each of these pieces costs – lot of money is – It’s pure gold – Pure gold? – and She gives them by the dozen – What is a beauty it is! She’s given Me one like this. Yes, I have one.

It’s beautiful, isn’t it? It’s beautiful! Beautiful, really beautiful. It’s very hard to get that red in [UNCLEAR] too. This they will appreciate much more, anywhere, not the variety so much – it’s beautiful! – Let us keep it for Puja – beautiful! – Nice [UNCLEAR] and this also one other, one other for gift – which can grow, which is this – but be careful. – He’s [UNCLEAR] all about a potter. He’s a sahajayogi in Perth, in sense. – In Perth?

In Perth – It’s beautiful – and Very good, very good. This is very good. Even you see the different things are there like the light that’s small – not really it shows Very well done! It is very lively because the light falls on that, you see, so it looks very lively. It’s beautiful! – It’s a lovely gift when it arrived. – It was a sheet, sheet of [UNCLEAR] photographs, isn’t it Sheryll? – Sure, yes. – See, what they are. – She never saw the light herself, did she?

No. – No – How she took seven of them, it’s very surprising – one after – it is guided, I think [LAUGHTER] It’s very well done – beautiful! It’s real gold. – It’s color of pearls – And [UNCLEAR] and it’s very, very delicate; See, it’s so delicate, it’s very delicate thing. – There is [UNCLEAR] gold, Shri Mataji – Annh? – There is [UNCLEAR] gold – Gold? – [UNCLEAR] gold. – No, it’s real gold. Is 22 carat – it’s real gold – Ah, I see. – 22 carat.

Not gold plated – it’s all gold – yes. So very cheap, you just can’t believe it! How did you like this piece? It’s very good work, hain? This was in Jaipur he picked up. He, you see, he’s very lucky, I must say – he’s very lucky. You knew about the saris we went to buy for the Puja – went to the shop and they had it in the bundle. We asked them, “Have you got any pure zari saris?” “Yes,” and eleven of them in a bundle – can you imagine? I don’t know, I could not protest even the way it was done.

You see, they took it out and each sari could cost about six, seven thousand rupees – worth for 1600, so I kept quiet. I said, “What to do now, what can you say?” Being too much, really; The graciousness is so great. Beautiful these things are! Now, lots of new photographs have also come with lights and things. – This is from, from India? – Yes, this is bought in India. – [UNCLEAR] – Which one? No, no, I don’t know – from all over, from all over. See the other way, the other side.

I’ll tell you what – never even touched it and saw it. The beauty of this work is that, you don’t get these things normally, you see. You see the work is on the other side, you see. – So well finished, you know! – [UNCLEAR] The back has… -Yes, the back is done with [UNCLEAR] A little bit. I didn’t take My [UNCLEAR] there but I did have something on the people had brought for Me. – Bring the table around. It should be.. – Warren, you know who made this? Did you – No, I don’t know – It’s some thing different, isn’t it? Is made by a sahaja yogini.

Really? – Hmm. [UNCLEAR] – It’s very beautiful [UNCLEAR], Mother. – I could see that. I just said, “It is not made in – it’s made somewhere here or in.. [POOR AUDIO – VIDEO QUALITY] [POOR AUDIO – VIDEO QUALITY] [POOR AUDIO – VIDEO QUALITY] [POOR AUDIO – VIDEO QUALITY] [POOR AUDIO – VIDEO QUALITY] [POOR AUDIO – VIDEO QUALITY] I didn’t want to buy, I didn’t want to buy a particular thing but I told [UNCLEAR] [POOR AUDIO – VIDEO QUALITY] [POOR AUDIO – VIDEO QUALITY] [POOR AUDIO – VIDEO QUALITY] then we suddenly, as usual said [UNCLEAR] and they made very beautiful plated fifty percent [UNCLEAR] and bought such beautiful tea-set and very [UNCLEAR] [UNCLEAR AUDIO] – We spent a lot of time as well looking for it. – To no avail – To no avail and we went, this time, to see one, in Adelaide again, one exhibition just to see what they’re making – absolutely primitive stuff. Surprised – absolutely primitive; Even the dresses were made, as if, you would look like a cave-man or something [UNCLEAR] girl selling cave-girl dresses [UNCLEAR] leather hanging on with a leather, you see – have you seen that sort of a thing – looking so funny. One lady traveled with us with that kind of a funny dress. Now-a-days, you see, they make this another style, this another style Only they can do something with their hair, I think, they can’t do anything else – so. – New Zealand is famous for potters – Which one?

Number of of potters in this country doing quite enterprising work, quite rather primitive ones slab one [UNCLEAR] making slabs but there’s also another potters doing very delicate work – Is it? – Yes, there’s one doing quite creative channel birthday by our by a potter we have hopes of becoming a sahaja yogi some right [UNCLEAR] since – Oh, that’s fine. Wow, it’s Kundalini – Really? – Oh, it’s done well. That’s something, really – it’s quite delicate and deep. – It’s beautiful! Just see Warren. – Yes. Subtle colors – very good. – Like more tea?

No, thank you, no, thank you. It’s alright. So, that’s how it is. – Who is this one? What’s the name of the potter? – Hainesly, Hainesly Niceon There’re a number of, a number of potters who’re working in fine work It should be, it should be, it should be like that. – We got one gift of fan – Hmm – and that had a Ganesh [UNCLEAR] – Really? Very free flying but very welcome, very beautiful – similar to this in color. But who’s seeing all this in the Unconscious? [NAME UNCLEAR] She’s, she’s selling her work now in England and and what she sells here for 15 and 16 $, sell for 60 and 70 – in, in – Really?

In England? – hmm – She can sell as much as she can make. – Hmm That everything they are scientifically said, “[UNCLEAR] should be [UNCLEAR] should be [UNCLEAR].” It is so spontaneous that you cannot write it down exactly. The color should be such, what is good what is bad. You see, the ideas, which come to you after seeing something, should not be conditioned by somebody else. Even you cannot appreciate spontaneous art because you’re already conditioned – you see through that hole. – Same with music as well – With music very much. – Heard somebody, the other day say that, “Within twenty years, just to open store, would be just too expensive.” and therefore music will uphold a name by electronic means and so on and they can, even now, make music electronically which – Warren, why don’t you try – it’s very good.

Try one. We’re just realizing that we’re two hours ahead and wondering why we’re not terribly hungry – It’s actually only six 0’clock out – Hmm – So, we’ll have dinner at ten, something like that, Mother – is it alright? It’s 8:15 now. – Alright – Or nine? When would You like? – Whatever time, I mean, I’m alright with you to have. Warren should be alright. – Alright, would you like to introduce everybody to Shri Mataji? – Alright. – [UNCLEAR – SWATI?]

Just let them be wherever they have be – [UNCLEAR – VINAY?] of course You know? – Of course, I know. I know her. She’s doing very well. – She’s growing very well. – This is [NAME UNCLEAR] – When did she get her realization? – Two years ago or four – Three years – Three years ago. She came across to Australia – I remember meeting her. – and was there for our [UNCLEAR] and – started develop her realization there, then came back to New Zealand – You came from New Zealand to Australia first?

So, you are a New Zelander. – Yes. Cheryll’s sister – this Cheryll – [UNCLEAR] your sister, o, oh. They have a mother – different paths. – Keep a little back – Aitrow is quite new, in fact. She got her realization earlier this year I see, she’s good, she’s very good. – and within a matter of a week or two, she moved into the [UNCLEAR] – Really? – so she’s starting to, starting to settle into sahaja. – You are a New Zealander too. – Yes.

All your life you’ve lived here? – Yes. – Hmm, good. That’s it. We should get New Zealanders – is the main point because they are the essences which will then work out. Hmm. – So, what do you think of your age group people – are they open to sahaja yoga, will they be open? – [UNCLEAR] they are, Mother, they are – my age group. I have a feeling that this age group is very different. They are born with more vision, more compassion more understanding of a wider world but earlier, naturally, you see, the effects of these people, who came here, were called as Paki haq, as you said – so they, they had come with other intentions – they couldn’t assimilate much of the thing Such a beautiful place – one should have a feeling.

Hmm, then? – [UNCLEAR] this is Wein, who’s been – Wein? – Wein, who’s been coming quite, quite regularly [UNCLEAR] is good, very [UNCLEAR] – Wein works in electronics – Is he? – So, he’s somebody who will help into – organizing – [UNCLEAR] – Ours is also Divine electronics – isn’t it? Works the same way – negative, positive. Jane, as mentioned, is, in fact, an artist. Jane has been to art school, has done – quite a deal, has exhibitions herself – Really? – and she has just recently finished her course at, at Teacher’s Training College and now is established teacher at High School, just near here. – Support weight and all that – ah, good! – so she’s teaching also the things like art itself and History about itself.

Ah, good! – She has an exhibition, some little time ago, – of a [UNCLEAR]. All the pictures were fox [UNCLEAR] pictures of a fox. They are the most amazing animals also. They can live for days together. You know, they have lived for years and ages that’s when they are found; For ages they have lived – don’t know, no one knows their life. Aitrow, Aitrow is like [NAME UNCLEAR]. She works in a, in a shop, in a boutique, You know. – Ah! Designing [UNCLEAR].

Designing or selling? – Selling. – Selling. – Hmm. – [UNCLEAR] – O,o,oh! – [UNCLEAR] see locket, inside it – locket – Hunh? – Inside the locket, Mother. – Oh, I see and a frog smiling. – Last time, I was telling him about a frog in a well – Last week – This was [UNCLEAR] came in my mind Frog in a well. You know the story, frog in a well?

Yes, it’s a Chinese story. – Haan. It’s Indian. There was a frog in a well and one frog jumped out of the well and told that he saw a very big animal. So, the frog in a well thought how can there be a bigger animal, bigger than himself because he was such a ego-oriented fellow, you see. So, he said, “How big?” So, he said, “Very big,” so he started puffing up himself; He just pushed some air into his body – just again started, you see, blowing inside and, “He’s so big?” He said, “No, no much bigger,” “So big?” went on and on and on till he just burst out You see, that’s the story ‘Frog in the Well’ – This is, this is [NAME UNCLEAR – BRYAS?] Shri Mataji.

Of course, [UNCLEAR – BRYAS?] I know – He’s also an artist, he was also – All artists here? – Yes a number of – He’s – Great artists, annh? – It’s like a Hamsa – Just see. Alright, put your head down, let’s see. – That’s it. – hmm So, all the artists have must Swadishthana – right Swadishthan – that has to happen and one has to work on that. Good, he’s sucking vibrations. Good! Are you feeling?

He’s got [UNCLEAR]… – It’s tremendous, it’s tremendous; They’re all Saatvikaas – in the center. – He’s with, he’s with us in the house as well. – Is it? – In your ashram he is – Is he? All good. – So what do you paint? – Portraits. – Portraits, hmm. – Is that your profession or do you do another job too? – I [UNCLEAR] – That’s good There are people here who appreciate art here in this country?

Yes, regularly held exhibitions. A number of exhibition buildings in the city which have regular, regularly display exhibitions – painting, photograph, pottery, wood carvings – and also ordinary interesting things – enamel works and so on. – Enamel? [UNCLEAR] But I think, in certain thing India is really – look at this piece that they have made also – this kind I don’t think, we can do it here. You see, retail working Certain things we are still very good and these things can be taught to the artists there in India – that’s My idea is. and you can teach them some things that; Like, I saw one thing was good, very good was, what you call, – etching – – Etching? – etching, that I have not seen in India; People don’t do that. Also this pottery painting Indian art is fantastic but it is not so realistic like, your portraits are realistic and also other things, other styles are not there – impression is taken all the styles are not very much known to them. Is it very sharp difference, isn’t it Shri Mataji, between the Indian, Indian painting which it sets out to to represent the figure in it’s perfect form which seems to be in the paintings [UNCLEAR] of the Deities and so – that the job of the painter is not to express himself – hunn – but to be himself talented – He doesn’t even write his name, you know, doesn’t even that’s not there. He doesn’t want to express himself; He is trying to, I don’t know, he’s trying to express the Creator in his things, you see, that’s why it’s very different and if you see even the paintings, I gave you, these ordinary ones from Bihar – see every line is done with a very dainty, I mean delicate, pen – we cannot rub it off, you see every line is drawn, is drawn now – it’s not rubbed off and they don’t have any other tracing done or anything – just free hand and imagine, how many lines they do and this – no problem at all, I mean, nothing is destroyed, nothing is rubbed off – it’s just the same they make at a stretch.

So one thing is, concentration is good and their deftness and the fingers are very steady, you see, shows their nerves very steady. Is they’re peaceful people that’s why they can do it. And also I saw this miniature painting – I haven’t brought any to show you but I wish I’d brought to show you; Miniature paintings are so delicate, so delicate little, little things done so delicately with such artistry. I don’t know how they do it in the villages – just done for no price at all. What about the present? Better get it. – We got a present for them. – Oh, that one, yes. It’s nice and early to give it – now that’s good. – [UNCLEAR] Adelaide [UNCLEAR] – Yes, I know but I enquired if you have it or not.

But for them art is not money, art is not anything else but enjoyment, just enjoyment, so they just indulge into it and they make a perfect job. Now see, this sari of Mine is, I must show you because I didn’t realize it was so [UNCLEAR] it’s all woven with hand – see See the details that are done – elephant and everything is all woven. What I’m saying, it’s all done with hand all woven. So simple it is for them to – every bit of it, you see, so delicate; This is fine arts, absolutely fine arts. [UNCLEAR] had a famous [UNCLEAR] Yeah, this is Mahakali, Mahalaxmi, Mahasaraswati – They are No, it is Shri Krishna, I’m sorry. This is Shri Krishna and these are the gopis dancing – this is what they have shown – see – Just hold it up to the camera. – What’s this? See now. [UNCLEAR] craft. You just sit down and do it.

But not one line you’ll find is, sort of, wrong or anything is rubbed off – nothing; Just they take the paper, start doing it. There they’re. The theme and everything is so spontaneous – just like somebody is sitting down and singing to you – it’s like that. This time I couldn’t get any – I was so disappointed. I said, “What’s happening to this, why I didn’t get anything?” I mean, normally I get about 100-200. Last time I got about 150. This time didn’t get any; I went to Patna for that purpose. I hope next time I’ll be able to get some. So, that’s it.

You see, he didn’t give you the ‘raas’ – it gave all of them like this, I don’t know why. I see them all of them on this there. – Just two, Mother, these… these two of this and then two [UNCLEAR] – You see, the theme is that they see Krishna everywhere, you see, standing with everyone and they’re wondering what is this. you see, like this the expression is. It’s just a village craft, absolutely and also His – stories about Him how He killed and what He did and – Always little bit miniature ones. – Haan, miniature ones – yes. See the shades and things they’ve done. – Berry, you’ve got a big enough wall? – [UNCLEAR] yes – There you can put it, yeah. You see the fineness of the work!

That’s from your big brother. – Ah! It’s beautiful – Such a lot of work, I tell you, such a lot of work. and this cloth looks like silk when they have done it. All His life stories on the sides they have done. God knows what sort of colors they are using – some sort of indigenous colors. Is there anything with the – this would be better for – same style; They’re all the same style – yeah. – There’s about little different here and there. – There’s a difference there. – Hmm.

But the Raas is not there. – There’s a little Raas in the photograph. I will show You. but that Raas one he didn’t give us. Perhaps, you told him we don’t want the – See it’s just there. – It’s giving very inside there, somewhere. If not, it’s alright. [UNCLEAR] but one has to be careful. – I know it’s just the fall – Yes, there’s a difference – see. There’s one house here and house there – there’s no house there.

Only the Raas is there. – Raas is different style, you see, it’s different. – This is another one. [UNCLEAR] – Whichever you like. I think, this is, this would be better for New Zealand. – Alright. I think, they can get this for [UNCLEAR] – And all their details. – It’s nice, annh? – Beautiful! – Like it?

It’s very beautiful art. – Whichever one you want is yours. And this one is better. I find that one it’s more with the house and all that. See there are stories around, are there [UNCLEAR] and the ladies also. Here there are no – there are cows here. – It’s quite interesting too. – Everything is, no doubt. – But there are so many ladies. – [UNCLEAR] beautiful!

Can I have My spectacles from there? – They look national – What is that national? – This site, national site – Is this is the one for New Zealand? – What is national – where? You see it. It is one of the eleven, what we call, Oh, this one now. When are they going to give back one, alright? Now, you’ve already got this one – it’s too much. – This is [UNCLEAR] – Yeah, national work. So, there was no need for you to buy He bought it for Australia; This is out of the blue.

This is out of the blue. [UNCLEAR] work and kept in a pyjama – that’s the best part of it. What a nice one it is – beautiful! But this you get next year – now not this year. – Hmm? – This will be next year now. – Can I have a glimpse at it, Mother? – Alright, let them have. you have no puja here – are we going to have any puja as such? Then you can You see, every nationality has to have one sari, so like that they have given eleven saris; It’s a very beautiful piece, no doubt.

May God bless you! Just see that – see the workmanship. So, he included you, you see, in buying that, this is his he included you in one of the centers. – This is your program sari, I’ve called it. – huh – This is your country sari – National, yes, national sari because you are a nation – isn’t it? – Isn’t it? See the workmanship. – This is a gift from me, alright, – Alright. To you people but this is the one you bought for the birthday. [UNCLEAR] When you bought this national, why have one more?

So, this is the one we keep for when we have a puja? – Yes – It’s a beauty [UNCLEAR] – Are you having a puja here? – I haven’t planned Mother, I haven’t planned, Mother, at all – Better have a puja there, if possible. – They have a little one today. – That’s all? You keep it for next year, alright? – When you’ve got a hundred sahaja yogis – [UNCLEAR] – Keep it for next year. This is a very nice one. This is another miracle – tell them about it. – This is a London – we got, we found this in London.

Can you imagine, for half the price? Now You know why, Mother, I decided they have an extra twelfth sari for Australia because there has to be one for New Zealand. – You had to? I didn’t follow still. – You know that lovely green one that we bought for You first day – Yes – I was looking for an excuse to get one more sari – hunh – and New Zealand didn’t have a national sari, so they had to – I see, so next year when they have the puja we’ll have it – alright? for New Zealand, so keep it then with you. – Keep it nicely wrapped up – Warren has his ideas – That’s [UNCLEAR] trousers [LAUGHTER] He loves to [UNCLEAR] with the dhobi – so he wrapped up – I was, I don’t know whether it was [UNCLEAR] – I don’t know what’s the thing in bottle stuff, you see. Brandy [LAUGHTER] I’m not guilty. – It’s a very beautiful thing. You turn around and see the workmanship on the other side.

Have a look at the palla. – The palla is so beautiful. So that you see the proper text and put it in relation to the other part. – It’s all hand woven and that is pure gold, gold thread. – How much did you pay for it – 700 – Fifty-one pounds – Fifty-one pounds – can you imagine? – That’s now fifty one dollars – Everything – no, no everything inclusive, all, everything inclusive. Everything inclusive – even the sari and petticoat, everything. Can you imagine? See the workmanship; This is what I am saying. This, what you have to learn when you come to India.

Isn’t it – that’s a something, that weaving that you don’t do here – you can’t. And a little lace like that also will really change the whole pattern, like your black, this thing, dress, if you can put a little bit of gold in that, will look nice – isn’t it, something.. But we are, we are, you see, like you people only make koala bear, you also make only elephants, you see, like that. In India, whatever you may try, they’ll have elephants, elephants, elephants and this also patterns, whatever are there, they do not change, they keep the same. If you tell them, why not just make borders, just make cloth without borders – they cannot. It’s a very, you see, blinkers there are. – Nice. – This is some with this hand painting. They stretch it on a stretcher with a back in and put it plus gold frame and all, super plain gold frame and all that’s nice; We’ve seen them stretch You see, they have done one thing good is to put something, a very transparent plastic thing on top, you see, so it doesn’t get spoilt. – You didn’t see that?

Where was that, Mother? – It was in Perth. – Oh, really? – Hmm. I asked them how is it kept so well – You mean, spray or a sheet? – No, a sheet. Absolutely a very, very thin sheet, you see – Tied [UNCLEAR] it? – No, no, no, no – just on the cloth – Just on top – Yes. Just like when you are framing this, with that they frame that, so it keeps very… because this is after all cloth, you see, it catches some dirt – but here there’s no question. – There is also a spray you can use on the now, Mother, which has the same effect – It repels all the dust and it protects the actual fabric.

[UNCLEAR] saw it there – that will protect the cloth also. Shri Mataji, would You like to just quietly spend some time? – Oh, I – Just introduce the other people, Brian and before dinner Mother would just be at ease. – Peter You know from – You know Peter, Mother? – Of course. – Since how long has he been with you? – Not sure. – Since last few days – Last few days. Australians have wonderful vibrations, I tell you – New Zealand and Australians also – Tremendous! You can’t find this with Americans; They think no end of themselves though.

May God bless you! – It’s very good. – Elizabeth is – Peter’s the one who has the health food chocolates, Sydney – Oh – and has certain propositions for sahaja yoga on those lines. – Achcha, good. – This is Elizabeth, Mother, who’s been coming for the last few weeks. – How are you Elizabeth – let’s see? Good, good! May God bless you! It’s good – and [UNCLEAR] Robert – Hello! – Now – Unnh – Like me substantial – Is he Greek?

– Good! [UNCLEAR] good, excellent! – Are you Greek? – No, no Irish. – Irish, I see. – Looks like a Greek. – [UNCLEAR CONVERSATION] – Annh? – [UNCLEAR]. – Thank you. – But – Irish could be Greek, you see, possibly because so many Greeks spread that way – Irish, I mean, it’s not pure Irish.

But that Robert and Elizabeth have been involved with Mahikari. – Beg your pardon? – But Robert and Elizabeth have been involved with Mahikari. Haan, that’s another problem. But it has happened with everyone, I tell you. All those who have been even incarnations. Think of Christ – I mean, you cannot say Christ was not true but his disciples are like this. See, all those great people, who came on this earth, when their disciples came in, they were like that, so you can’t blame anyone. – Actually, it was the daughter of this – Huh, she – she interrupted. He, he was a realized soul.

He was realized – But also he was just realized, he was just realized. – Sukyo Nisama was a realized soul but [UNCLEAR], his daughter was absolutely not a realized soul and she was manipulated by the money-makers and the organisation. That’s very common, I tell you, very, very common that a person who’s of a very great value comes on this earth, does nice good work and then suddenly, son or maybe the disciple, they spoil it. Maybe You’re saying that of the year of the originator of the Church in Houston, what You’re talking about – I said that – He went to church there – he was a realized soul but think his followers – Oh, no not, no, no – Not [UNCLEAR] the one who started the church – The one who started the church – Yes, he was but this Sid is, you see is, I don’t know what he’s doing, I mean, they’ve compromised Yes, you see, they want to adjust themselves to unity, unity as funny people. They were supporting Rajneesh – now they don’t know what to do with him because they were supporting Rajneesh – now Rajneesh has been found out to be a crook All the Rajneesh people have now gathered near him there and they were forced to come there and it was said that, “You all come along and then, now the whole world is going to end up, so we’ll all look after,” stupid people went there They sold all their things, assets and all that and everything was given there in Rajneesh’s ashram and some of them were paid also money for these people to go there those who didn’t have money but now they are working there like hard labor for them – they’re doing all their farming, this, that and even if they want to come out, they cannot. So, they informed the government and then these people have got now guns and everything and they said that, “Anybody tries to come inside, then we’ll shoot off these people,” so they are in a mess there. Eric is a seeker from way back, Shri Mataji. He’s been through a lot of the powers on the ways – this Eric. Hmm, that why the void is, left side – it’s very simple. You can cure it.

I mean, if you are a seeker, you just go out from everything that is being done – forget it, it’s finished. Because, you see, they appear to be very sensible sometimes, I don’t know what they appear to be but in America, you know, they asked Me, “How many Rolls Royces She has?” Stupid people. And when they told them, She doesn’t take any money, how will She have Rolls Royces? – So they said, “We’re not interested in the person who has no Rolls Royces, who doesn’t make money.” – That was the Press. – And even a person who came to see Me in London, what was his name? – Oh yes, the B.B.C. man. – Haan, B.B.C.

man He said, “How can it be that You don’t take any money then, you see, the Anglo- Saxon brain cannot understand it.” – Anglo- Saxon brain is which, made of what? – [LAUGHTER] – It’s the first question I asked here by the Press. “How much do you pay, how much do you pay?” First question, first, first question. – Meaning that they should pay? – No, no meaning that they want to know the price that this lady, who I am trying to interest them in, how much she charges us – What are the damages? – Yeah [LAUGHTER] that’s always the first question, always. [UNCLEAR CONVERSATION] – Peter is, Shri Mataji, Peter is in broadcasting as well. He’s a – Is he?

He’s a Assistant Director – Oh I see [UNCLEAR] broadcasting [UNCLEAR] – Yes – Good – They’re talking of BBC and here it is – He has asthma. – Hmm That we’ll cure. Hold your breath thrice – for a while, for a while – not for long. Thrice. [UNCLEAR] there May God bless you! They cannot understand some body who could be just [UNCLEAR] can’t understand, can’t. Here I’m fighting this fellow, “Don’t buy this I’m feeling shy, then I’ll have to make amends, I’ll have to buy things to give them presents – don’t buy.” They can’t understand such a person – that’s the trouble is. They just can’t understand – beyond them. I don’t know how they understand Christ.

[UNCLEAR] – They don’t. – What do they say about His – I mean, they’ve all missed the point – haven’t they? Such [UNCLEAR] like this fellow, your Archbishop of Canterbury – did I tell you about Him? He was asked by Robin Day, you see, Robin Day you know what Robin Day is. My granddaughter says, “He must have been a bull dog in his last life, you see.” This Robin Day asking him a question – A very aggressive English individual. – I know – very bluntly asking a question, “Ah! Then what do you think of Holy Ghost?” So Archbishop says, “I’m agnostic.” He said, “Then what are you doing here?”

Said, “I’m doing my job.” Said, “Yes, yes. You’re doing your job, I’m doing my job.” [LAUGHTER] Finished. Mutual understanding. Probably, they were right because you’re doing your job, I’m doing my job – paid for it – finished. “Yeah, I’m agnostic.” I, you know My eyes popped off – C P was there – he took out his spectacles, he couldn’t understand – then he put it. He said, “Archbishop?” I said, “Yes, this is the one.”

[SHRI MATAJI LAUGHS] – This is [UNCLEAR] Shri Mataji. [UNCLEAR] who acts in the same shop as [UNCLEAR] – Hun huh and had many a comforts inside in the dressing room doing spare time about what sahaja is all about. – All those, that I work with, had their realization and they’re all coming along to the program. – Good. Yes. May God bless you! – You make cotton dresses here, you sell? – It’s all cotton, no polyester. – No polyester – that’s good. – Good – You see, I was telling him that, “You must be getting some cotton here after all.”

So he said – then somebody told Me, “They make cotton here in Australia.” Australian cotton you have. Because no use having polyester. If not cotton, have silk but polyester is no good. Outside clothes may be that some of you have sweaters and things but I just can’t, I mean, I can’t wear it. I get funny feeling inside here. But how will people manage because they are used to these things and so many clothes, you see, one lady wants to have; So many clothes then how can she have cotton? Cotton must be expensive here. [UNCLEAR] polyester [UNCLEAR] [UNCLEAR] all these ladies come in and love, You know, [UNCLEAR] – This summer has been a lot of cotton, a lot of cotton ball. – Is it?

Pure cotton – a lot of Truly think is that it is the best expensive and the plastics are the least expensive. But in India the other way round. You see, polyester is, at least, four times more expensive than cotton, you see. – Silk is half the price of polyester. You know that, Warren? – Five times more expensive than stainless steel. Yeah, but now stainless steel, I must say, stainless steel is now very cheap in India but very expensive in Australia. – We went to the shop, I must tell you this one. Now that, let’s meet all of you, then I’ll tell you about it. – Cha Cha – She must have been coming at the last [UNCLEAR] – Put your hands under My feet – alright?

They are all very good, I must say. – Excellent! – He’s a hard working seeker. – Annh? – A hard working seeker. – May God bless you! Alright? – I think, that’s everybody. – Oh, who’s she? – Come I’ll [UNCLEAR] That’s Ericsson.

That’s everybody – should be. – So we.. – You may have a rest. – What’s that? Now be done. Everything you’ve given me – Just another little present, another little one. – It’s particularly about New Zealand. It’s some pictures of New Zealand, really. – Hmm, thank you very much. – Thank you very much, thank you. Can I open it?

Yes. [UNCLEAR] – That seems to be [UNCLEAR] – You see, this I knew – Sarva Granthi Vibhedini [LAUGHTER] Granthi, I know. Now …. but the sticking things I don’t know. – Knots You can do but not sticky things. – Yes. [UNCLEAR] this has been packed very well, so. – So they kept the flowers back? – Yes, they have. They said that they have [UNCLEAR] – All humbug. They wanted to have the flowers themselves.

Humbug – Absolutely. [UNCLEAR] – New Zeal Land – Land of new zeal. – New zeal Land of many dreams – but the dreams have to come true. This color scheme is nice. I must, you must see – Rommel’s book has come out very well; You’ll be happy to see his progress. – It’s in the smaller case – if you can bring My… – O, You’ve got a copy here. – Yes, I have. – Is it in the top part or bottom part, Mother? – I think, top part. South Island in the country is nearly down in the West coast, which is a very famous tourist area It’s a field land like in, in Norway – very steep sided mountains going right out very deep – I see.

The sea comes right after the valleys into the – huh – under a very tall mountains. – [UNCLEAR] my glasses are sitting there just there on .. – No, it’s alright. It’s beautiful! See the colors. Naturally they are so beautiful. This is, this is North of Auckland. – There’s a lot of bush – I saw a painting like this on, in the airport. – swimming – yes – This is the sort of forest that this wood is grown, Shri Mataji. This is, this is Kauri – one of the, one of the – What is it called? – Kauri – k-a-u-r-i Kauri – Kauri – and it’s one of the most famous of the New Zealand – What is the fruit like?

I don’t know, I don’t know what – Pine cone – Pine, it’s Pine cones – Pine – is it Pine? Like the Pine cones – It’s more curled – Huh huh – because we call kauri as something else that’s why I wanted to know. – There’s also an Australian tree called a Kauri – – – which is, but that is, that’s quite a different tree – What are these lines? – they got the time exposure let the camera run while all the traffic is run through – so that these lights have – [UNCLEAR – ARE ON THE?] – been printed on the, on the negative. – It’s like the camera’s been opened for ten seconds or fifteen seconds – So what is this is? – They’re cars – they’re the lights of cars that are traffic. Here the lights of the car coming forth. Because you see in one of My, two of My photographs they’ve got things like that travelling, going, shooting off like that – lights – That’s rather different type of – That’s what I was – that’s a different sort of light – That must be with the same kind of a – That’s the Auckland bridge, here. I put them it wasn’t wide enough.

Since I built it, it wasn’t big enough, so I built two sections on either side and the Japanese – they employed Japanese firm to, to put these extra pieces on the side of the bridge and they called them the nipons flipons. – Beautiful! – This is [UNCLEAR] offices; This is near where we are. – Hmm – This is the [INAUDIBLE] – This is Chinese style – Hmm – Color schemes are beautiful, beautiful! – That’s the Bay of Islands.That is the most beautiful part of this country – lush and lovely! – Hmm – This is another famous tourist area – Red Rove, where there are [UNCLEAR] – and bowling mud pools and so on. The volcano, the volcanic is very near to the surface. – Hawk water pool it’s called – [UNCLEAR] – That’s also in Red Rove near In Japan also you have lots of things like that. Every 28 minutes in a plain city a spout – of thing comes out – every 28 minutes. – [UNCLEAR] saying there like they have – – but the timing is so correct – it’s beautiful!

It’s quite old? – That’s Rotoroa again. – What style it is? – Quda. That King had too many wives – Here – That’s his style of building. It was from that period but of course it’s much more – mop. – This is the church? – No, I say it’s a – It’s a residence – it’s a place for people to go to a spa, You know, to – Hmm – take the waters and there’s a from a distance of quality to these, to these boiling mud-pools – these – Oh, I see – people got to take the waters into. Just swim in the hot waters and swim – See the nature! – Tremendous this is!

All of Rotoroa is like this with every backyard – this is little jets of hot steam – Yeah, where? – In this town of Rotoroa – in this, right in the center of the island – in the middle of the North Island. We’re sitting on top of a volcano [UNCLEAR]? Like everybody, they say, that when the spurts of steam stop, then you get worried. – because as long as the steam is coming up, then probably there’s a slighter – There’s an outlet – it’s nothing. – It’s like, I think, this, this looks to Me like Japan, you see, – What? – New Zealand same on – altitudes – but it’s all, all part of the great circle of geological circle round the Pacific. It goes up through the Andes, up through the Nawadas, up to the [UNCLEAR – SPOKES?] and so on – in California – [UNCLEAR] – [UNCLEAR], then right up through Canada through the Elysium Islands, down through Japan, down through the Philippines, down through New Guinea and round to New Zealand. It’s all the same geographical red, big geological [UNCLEAR – BANDUNG?]

right round the Pacific but throughout the tempest of Mother Earth, the heat and the boiling and the boiling lava are quite near to the surface – all the way round there – all – [UNCLEAR] – yeah – This is a colonial hub – Yes, a number of them – Hmm, good. – [UNCLEAR] – Well, what’s this printed here? Umm? – Written about [UNCLEAR] in Spain – [LAUGHTER] – Are you sure it was something like that? Because I’ve seen the coloring there – Spain or Switzerland – Spain That area is called Property Bay. Property Bay because Kelvin Captain Cook arrived here. He couldn’t get on-shore to – to kill things for food and some – getting the name Property Bay Makes one down with most, who’s most propitious for him so called it Bay of Plenty. [UNCLEAR] – That’s a the mountains and – All kinds of views and things – Center of the Island – The variety is too much. – It’s very much a pastoral land. There’s no iron ore in this country at all.

No iron ore? – No iron, so there’s no steel. All steel has to be imported. – Really? – So there’s no heavy industry – All, all – Why don’t you import from India we’re having surplus? They are having a glut. – Steel is in glut there. – Bring together our Prime Minister with – Hmm but they won’t go to India, I think. Well, Australia next door, of course, also has a surplus of, of iron ore This is another – this is the next, this is the Capital city of the country – this is Wellington, which is most beautiful city – hub all round. – a lovely – jungle of mountains – once you get outside that, it’s round this beautiful harbor.

It’s [UNCLEAR] – It’s a capital city like Canberra is. They say about it that, “People who were blown into the harbor, never ever would get out of it.” It’s very windy. – Oh, I see. What’s this one? – That’s Wellington again. – This is nice. – This part – This is the old cathedral [UNCLEAR] – [UNCLEAR] Mother – [UNCLEAR] scenes are good. Beautiful – There are a number of lakes such are very popular with [UNCLEAR] in the center of the island also. – Hmm – [UNCLEAR] Just like a reflection it is.

This way one reflection, this way another. You see, the photographer is good. – Very good! – This is an area where there’s skiing. Very steep – it’s snow there, people A lot of, a lot of the literature – this is Christ Church which is a very English city. See, this is it’s Cathedral. A lot of stories and legends about living in the mountains, living in the rock areas of New Zealand mastering straight forth basic jobs occupy quite a lot of literature in New Zealand literature. French chairs of fasios – Number of [UNCLEAR] comes up with stones – Umm? Comes up with the stones – the wood which is undermined. – Hillsides with bush are undermined and the bush falls in the sea and is then washed up – [UNCLEAR] – [UNCLEAR] – on the shores – Hmm.

They often become fossilized – very, very hard – [UNCLEAR] – There’re lovely, lovely waterfalls. I believe the highest waterfall in the world stands in this – Is it? – [UNCLEAR] – South Island – South Island falls – Same thing – Highest meaning – longest flow of water. – Umm? – The single drop, I think – The biggest drop of water – [UNCLEAR] – This is New Zealand’s biggest industry – ram and goat. – Yeah, I know. Quite often, one buys shawls in India made from pure New Zealand merino wool. – Yeah, yes, yes marina wool, merino wool – That’s an [UNCLEAR – IMPORT?] Yes, I bought a suit length, this time of that Merino wool, yeah. It’s lake Wakatipu which is one of the most famous of the, of the seven lakes.

Now it’s very much a tourist area so – has hotels, motels and distractions and amusements for the visitors. – Hmm – Hunh – So this being one of them – this is like build this old farm – it’s old – [UNCLEAR] about gold mine [UNCLEAR] – Umm – What about gold? No more available? – Still [UNCLEAR] still dig but it’s not as it was before. – It’s not a big industry as it was once before. – Hmm – There was a time when New Zealand took a, – was part of the International gold chain – Hmm – You know, the gold from California to – Australia – Yes, yes – to New Zealand. This is part of the Central Taigo where’s a lot of fruit firm. This is – Beautiful! I’ve got a painting like this. – They had to, they crossed company so early they had to put a pox of oil they put pox of oil on the [UNCLEAR – LIGHT THEM?]

to keep the frost away from the blossom – because the first frosts come after the blossom [UNCLEAR] – I see – and then the light can keep them out? – Yeah – the heat is just strong enough to keep the frost away from the blossom. It is [UNCLEAR]. It’s round about what uh.. it’s timberish It’s that the time when in terms like Alexander and so on – is an oily smell in the air – but a little bit lighter when the blossom starts to really appear. It’s beautiful! [UNCLEAR]. – The picture of the first rain. – That’s called Sand Fly Bay – Sand Fly bay? – Sand fly Bay. – This one is?

Hmm, this area – Sand fly Bay. – The Bay of Sand flies – Lot of pictures like that [UNCLEAR] – It looks like Bhairava to Me. Yeah, it does – see. Lot of those rocks have scone of, what you call, birds – Regular [UNCLEAR] – Is it in the sea – this one? Looks like Bhairava. This is Mount Cook, which is again, another a mega spot for tourists It’s one of the highest places where you can really have a comfortable hotel; Really posh hotel way up a mountain. Of course, it’s very expensive. – It’s called the Southern Alps. – Let the sahaja yogis go there they’ll get it cheaply as we managed it everywhere. It’s all part of Mount Cook – the area.

Shri Mataji, they’ve made us another pot of tea. Would You like to have one? – I don’t take so much tea [UNCLEAR] – Beautiful horses! – Hmm – They’ve grown here. There lots of – Yes, yes – You breed them? – New Zealand is quite famous for it’s race horses. The Australians come across here regularly for their yearling sales and a lot of the Australian race horses come from New Zealand. So most of the effort in horse-breeding is for racing. – Very nice – one better than the other; One can’t believe it’s so great. – [UNCLEAR] – Annh, in such a small little place – all the beauty is [UNCLEAR] – There’s quite a famous commercial for New Zealand which is [UNCLEAR] time which says, “The couple in a tourist place, in a tourist shop and they say, “All excursion group to Norway and you see shops of fields and so on, now let’s go to Spain you see some rolling camps, let’s go some,” and all the places turn out to be New Zealand.

because New Zealand has a vast variety of country-side – You can see so clearly; See such a variety of things. – So, – Thank you very much [UNCLEAR] – it’s like, in Australia, You know, You can travel for 200 miles and the country-side will look very much the same, You know – Boring, yeah – [UNCLEAR] here to come to have – Yes – five miles and the whole country-side changes Like Yangtze river, every five minutes the rocks change there – everything changes, the the trees, the style – everything changes. Five minutes you just go ahead, you’ll see something else there – So interesting view the Yangtze river – that’s the Tao – Tao – and I’ve done that travelling, luckily. – Now, this is what Rommel’s is, this book is. – Ah! – It’s called ‘Ascent to the Divine’ and this one here, he’s tried to prove that whatever is written in the Puranas and all these things, we have the proof of that in the [UNCLEAR – NATIVE?] that’s what he’s tried to say. So, this one he took it there and this is My suggestion to put this photograph here. He’s gone to Himalayas and he taken Kailash and Mansarovar. Kailash is – – See it makes like a four petal thing – Hmm – See – That’s the steps – the structure of the land?

Yes, how it is – structured – and all centered on Kailash? – Beg your pardon? – Is that center on Mount Kailash? – Yes. All, is the center is the Mount Kailash. Center is the Mount Kailash where Sadashiva lives, you see, and one side is the Mansarovar, is the Mansa – See this one; That’s the, that’s the emblem they have got for long that this is Kailasha – [UNCLEAR] – [UNCLEAR] It’s all is his scholarship you can see in this what he’s done, – done it very well but this test you must see. – That’s the most – This is he’s done it with the Kundalini – Ahh! [UNCLEAR] how it is, where is Sadashiva, what is it? All these things – he’s done it well – Is this a book for publication in the West? – Yeah – It’s all sold – Ah!

Stars I don’t know, from where he starts reading. This is it. – Beautiful! – Color blue, you see did it in Switzerland. Painting was done in Switzerland. See the women who live here – very innocent. It’s different there from here – dancing and all that. You can see yourself; It’s very interesting. [UNCLEAR] – What is that name? Man.. – It is Mansarovar – is the one is the Mahata Manasa – is the superego.

Ha! – This is the, you see, Kailasha is the center, then Mansarovar on one side and I told him, told him, there must be another, that’s there, the lake, which is actually the ego – is the rakshas taal, they call it. – Ha! – And this one is always very peaceful; The other one is turbulent at the slightest move doing it. – You can see it. – You’re talking about the two, the two lakes – Yes – and how the weather can be apparently be similar – Here, the interesting thing, I’ll show you, what he’s showed it you see, the few things that he’s brought forth is, the river Ganges, you see, when it comes – see this thing that; These are their rituals. He dealt with the public there, what sort of people they are and then he dealt with the … this is how they kill a big It’s not a bull, it’s a male buffalo with all the bhoots in it and all the public sitting there in the night. He took the picture in the night. So now, he goes on to this climbing and there he saw there. – Now it’s further on – that’s about the people.

Now, here he’s shown Sadashiva, you see – and Nandi and this is Mansarovar and this is Sadashiva. – Ah! – See this is Kailasha. – That’s Kailasha. And if you see Kailasha from there it looks like a human-being with Brahma Vishnu in it – you can see it clearly. This is how they went, you see. This is very difficult to go there, so went by that road that is being given. – Every, now this is it, see. – Ah! – This is Sadashiva and this is Brahma and Vishnu here – Ah!

And this is Mansarovar – That’s, the hills the shape of the, of the Kailash temple at Ellora Yes, it’s just like that – yes, he’s shown that also. [UNCLEAR] This is how they sacrifice goats and things in the name of God but he’s shown here, see, these things have given the shapes to the temple, you see. They have taken from here. He’s tried to show this will also look like temples but these are not man-made. These are not man-made – at Kailash they are like this, so from there they have taken this idea; He’s tried to depict it. This is the Rakshas taal. [UNCLEAR] Then, he comes in between with this two, three things, you see, like he’s shown here how in the villages is depicted like this – the Kailasha. Now going up, there’s one good thing he’s shown – the Swayambhu of – see the color schemes – That’s like Chinese paintings – Yes, and see this also – is the [UNCLEAR] – It’s like the terrace is going up to the Himalayas – And this is the Kailash seen from this angle – these people are seeing that, he’s showiing. Now, this is a kind of a thing that happens sometimes that is a, this is the Devi’s, uh.. Devi’s mountain they say. This is the goddess.

Parwati’s – What is the Panna? – Parwati’s They’ve got different, different things and this is the valley of flowers; Is all natural in the jungle, they say – valley [UNCLEAR] You see, he’s depicted in a way that how you have to go now to river Ganges [UNCLEAR] to river Ganges. See, how people are climbing [UNCLEAR]. See now, now this is Amarnath, Amarnath temple. See, this is the – this is the lady when she sees Amarnath; His photography is very good. Then, this is what they do for the dead. People who are dead, they give them food and this and that – that is what, is a ritual. Now, this is where they reach. See the [UNCLEAR] this is the place and this. It’s so cold, so cold and this fellow is sitting without any clothes there.

And here it is where the guru Gita was taught to Parwati – this is the place, is here. Ah, this is where He says, “I would play the game – and I would teach You the things that you have taught Me.” – Yeah, this is it. this is the place. Now, this is most wonderful is that, this Ganesha is made automatically, spontaneously. for a very short time. It lives for about three or four days. It has tremendous vibrations and that is [UNCLEAR] See how [UNCLEAR] – It’s ice, is it? – It’s ice. It’s – comes down from one little hole there.

And this is made – only for two three days it stays, this Ganesha. And this is the famous Amarnath thing which is made on a particular day is completed. That’s the Purnima Shivratri – that day it is complete. It, then it dissolves again. Then again it starts building up – then again it builds up to Shivratri day. Here he has shown, how the Pandavas, when they were in exile, they went and worshiped Shiva instance – just a pilgrimage. He’s done lot of work, no doubt. Then, now he’s talking about the River Ganges – how the River Ganges has come and what, how it has come down He’s taken a very – he’s describing here, see, the River Ganges is flowing through this. Same way he will show there how it flows down. You see, this is Bhagirath, who prayed for Her coming, so he’s praying here, in the, in the mythology.

And this is what seen, so he says this is the churning of the ocean which took place and Shiva is sitting there. The two oceans are, part of the oceans are there – one on this side, one on the other side. This is Mansarovar and this is the thing with which it was churned; See here they have shown the churning. – Ah, yeah. – See, this is – This is Krishna – This is Krishna, of course, Krishna was the one who did it but on top of him is, see, this one And all this came out of His – Ashwathama, this is Airawat; Fourteen things came out of it. Now, this is River Ganges he’s tried to show, how the River Ganges comes into the [UNCLEAR – THING?] and see this man sitting there and worshiping. Now, it’s said, the Airawata, the one the elephant that came out, bring out the [UNCLEAR] to pierce here through the mountain and this is the piercing point; But I don’t know how Rommel has taken this because it is a very precarious point from there the river flows. Then, it’s the same Ganges river is shown flowing down – this is another one This has references that side, then he goes down, how the river came in and how they worship, you see, all this is the River Ganges. Just see, the depiction is – mountains are shown this way – He’s tried to – It’s very, the parts of New Zealand are very, very similar – Yes, very similar, yes.

Now see, this is the Banaras – I think, this is Haridwar [UNCLEAR] like this. I mean, what he’s tried to show, that whatever is described about the river, is absolutely so. this you can see the things thereas happening. Also, in the paintings how the river is described and this is again the Ganges again flowing; So all this he’s described in the book what it is and his theory about it. – He’s described his theory that is always [UNCLEAR] – Hmm, lovely book. – Shri Mother, would You like tea [UNCLEAR] dinner? – What is it? – Plain or fish? – Anything, I mean.. – [UNCLEAR] – Whatever you have. – Plain fish – Would You prefer fish?

Whatever you have. – I mean, fish you have or? – Fish and lamb. – Oh, I’ll have lamb because I had fish – What, have you cooked it or not? – No, no I’m just going to. – Better cook fish then fish will be faster, alright. – Oh, it is quite – Is it? Alright, then put lamb – whatever suits you. – Would You like sour, a little sour – Yes, I’ll have – [UNCLEAR CONVERSATION] – Put it [UNCLEAR] Anything is alright, you see, I don’t understand much about food. I know how to cook But the theory is very great in there, the theory – the way he’s worked it out.

The book’s name is, ‘Ascent to the Divine’ and he’s worked out through Kundalini also. This is relating everything through the Himalayas to progress for the Divine to the nature of Divinity – Kailash has been the center of that particular world and with the, with the ego and the superego, these two lakes on either side one… There’re two lakes. One is called as the Mansarovar is the superego and the another is the ego is the called as, what you call that, Rakshas Taal. Rakshas Tall, which gets into turbulence. You mentioned in, in India, Shri Mataji, about various woods, asking about what would make [UNCLEAR]. – huh. – I collected a few pieces of wood, of New Zealand wood, see here – that is, that one is called Toteara – What is it? – Toteara – To-ta – Toteara. T-O-T-E-A-R-A Toteara – Toteara It’s a very light wood, Toteara, isn’t it?

Beautiful grains, though but very light, I feel. Hmm – So, that’s Kaori – hunh? – That’s Kaori – Kaori, I see. – That’s what is the most popular wood in New Zealand for. – But you cannot make furniture out of it – Yes, furniture is made out of Kaori – Really! – And doors and things – Yes and plates of various soup – – that’s an AUM – Oh, that’s beautiful! [UNCLEAR] is this but is this a strong wood to [UNCLEAR]? It’s quite a, yes, it’s quite a resilient wood, it’s quite a – Is it Brazilian? – No, it’s a, it’s a resilient wood. It needs a lot of working.

It’s hard wood to work. – O, resilient. – You have to work very hard with it, is it? – There’s another one which is even more so – You have to clean it much more, is it? – Yes, it has to be, it’s, it’s, it’s – It’s like Rosewood. You have to work hard to get – You can’t work, you can’t go ahead because it breaks off. – You have to be careful and [UNCLEAR] continue it – Breaks up fast – Hmm, this is a, this is a very, very difficult wood to work. – but it’s, there’s some of it which is even more [UNCLEAR], it’s called [UNCLEAR] – Is it? [UNCLEAR] It’s a, it has a very rich red flower and and it’s known as the New Zealand Christmas tree because at Christmas time it comes out of these bright – beautiful red flower. – What greens annh?

What a beauty! – But that’s a very, very difficult wood to work – But it’s also oily – Would be good wood – this will be good like something nearer Rosewood, not so much but – That’s, that’s Remo – What’s that? – That’s Remo – Remo That’s quite a popular wood for making plates and so on [UNCLEAR] – But what do they use for furniture here? This would be [UNCLEAR] – Kaori mostly [UNCLEAR], Remo – yes – [UNCLEAR] This would be – Tables and chairs – Pine – Yes the – Pine? – Pine – Is it strong? Is it? – It’s very hard wood [UNCLEAR] strong – In India Pine is no good – there are a number, there are a number of Pines grown here – different sorts of Pines. Some are used for buildings, some are used for – furniture making, some are treated, some are specially treated – What’s this one? – It’s what? Fur – Fur Very nice!

This is the wood they have, all kinds – haven’t seen one like this before, haven’t seen. – That’s, that’s, that’s – What do you call this? – [UNCLEAR – AHUTAKAWA?] – Ahuto – Ahutakawa – Kawa – It’s all one word – Ahutakawa – Ahutakawa It’s a very distinctive – I mean, at Christmas time, if You looked around here – stood outside and looked around, You’d see the Ahutakawa’s in all directions. – Is it? – with these bright red flowers and when they fall, they fall like red needles – So nice – [UNCLEAR – THEMSELVES?] washed or red needles on the pavement – Like bottle-brush are they? Like bottle brush? – A little like that – yeah, needly, a needly flower – [UNCLEAR] pick You one – Hmm – and in case, it’s going to be our Puja – [UNCLEAR] – Oh, that’s also [UNCLEAR] – We’ll see now what’s the situation is like. Beautiful, it’s very nicely done.

Yes, that’s the same one? No, this is another wood, I think. – That’s [UNCLEAR] – Same as that. This is alright for furniture, I think. – Hmm. – This would be. So they make here some furniture out of this wood, do they? – The, the – Very strong – There was a quick desire for furniture like Kaori and [UNCLEAR – REMO?] and so on – You’d to have a table and chairs made out of – Kaori, hmm – expensive tree – Hmm – Very good collection. You put them up somewhere you’re able to see – it’s nice.

Mother, there’s, there’s If you see them as a collection, then you see the beauty of these. – Yeah. We bought those since You are interested in eventual about making, making what ones were good for making plates are of, in India, so we wondered whether those – any of those woods You might like and we could – make plates – have plates made for You if You would like them – Plates So the thing is, plates if you make, then we eat anything in it, it can be spoilt because wood doesn’t take water [UNCLEAR] – What they do here is, they – Lacquer it – In the country there’s also a wax that they, that they use for sealing the wood. What is the best for doing anything here is the handles, the door handles of wood? Handles is very important. What I’ve seen that now, you see, we have taken to these other metals and all that – after some time these handles become very, very smooth so much so that the can’t open them; You see, you go on pushing sometimes you get locked with them but if you have these handles with little working of brass or something on top they will look very nice, I think; Better for making handles than anything like that. For these handles for the say, this one for the knives and things, you see – artistic. To do something artistic work with them but if you start using them for plates they may be spoilt but in India we use lot of it for salads and for dahi. They make dahi, actually in the villages they make dahi only in the wooden – What is dahi? – Dahi is yogurt.

Annh, make it in wood? – Hmm – is the best, they say. – In this you try some dahi – is the best. – It keeps the heat, isn’t it? – Very good. Apart from that, dahi can, you see, metal can be little bit absorbed in the yogurt but this is absolutely is, doesn’t absorb any acid It’s very good, so in India mostly they use for dahi – yogurt. Dahibada, dahi – anything they make out of dahi, they make it – That one is a very knotty wood, it’s very twisted – Annh? – twisted, knotty that – That one is – that’s why it’s so difficult to – unnh, knotted one, unnh but anyone – this one can be used also – – India we have big, big, things like that, you see, made for this and then we also use it for so many things we use wooden things – like for, you know, when we make chappatis we have to knead aata – for that also we use the same thing – the wooden – Yes, I mean, in the villages even now they use it. – but cities have become so much plastic and stainless steel and all. I should tell you, we went to the shop, you see, to buy some things and there the most expensive things were made of plastic next to that was glass – really, and third was the moulded glass and the cheapest was the hand cut glass from Bohemia [LAUGHTER][UNCLEAR] – Topsy turvy – Really, it’s so topsy turvy in one shop it was and people were buying all expensive things like glass and this and I bought this Bohemian glass.

I said, “This is cut glass. One piece is so expensive in London. Here why is it the the other way round people are there,” – They are like Indians, I think. Like Indians would buy polyester than cotton sort of thing. So, they would buy plastic; Plastics are the most expensive some thing like this plastic was more expensive than the wood itself. [UNCLEAR] Warren didn’t understand what was the thing going on. There were two other sahaja yogis. They started looking at it. I said, “What is this – plastic so very expensive and hand-cut Bohemian glass is the cheapest?” What’s happening to people?

Absolutely, I don’t know, what’s happening to them?” Haan, the best part was the cheapest were the silver-plated – that was the best part – 40% less. – Cheapest was the silver-plated, pure silver-plated. – Was this related just to the market? I mean, it wasn’t sort of the thing that people pay. – this is the sort of money – This is something, I can’t understand the mentality what’s happening to them – It’s like nylon saris. – It’s nylon saris, something like that, same style but I mean, you are developed country, we are developing, so we are stupid. I can’t understand why should you be that stupid as to have [UNCLEAR]! Best was the Bohemian glass. Then I said, “This is just ordinary glass – is more expensive than Bohemian hand-cut; It is really to be seen, I mean, you can’t believe it such a thing happening.

And then, of all the things silver-plated means there’s silver plated – such beautiful designs are 40% less. Just we couldn’t understand. Now, the things would be like this one day will be the price of plastic is more than something made of gold. If you move in this direction, what is going to happen. Absurd, really absurd! There is a link presumably, Shri Mataji, between – knowing what is valuable and what is appropriate and what is auspicious. – Hmm Innate value – people know it’s innate value. Now of course, the plastic is nice we wash it, put it what you like – I mean, it’s nice you can throw it where you like, it’s very practical, this, that, it has a practical value but still, compared to Bohemian glass, I mean, to buy plastic at an expensive price – more expensive – this I could not understand. – I just could not understand that. – It is so, it’s mass produced so – So many [UNCLEAR] – but that should be cheaper?

If it is mass produced, it should be cheaper; It’s the other way round. Bohemian glass, can you imagine, Bohemian tumblers? I mean, first I saw, then again I couldn’t believe. – I called Warren, I said, “See, is it true?” – “Yes Mother, it is so.” – So I don’t know, where is Australia now, where is it going? Is it developed or developing or – Going backwards And on the other round in the exhibition they were wearing funny dresses like the cave-girls. I think, it’s all conditioning of the mind. It’s conditioning through the advertisement, this, that. The people know things in their mind something and then they see it, they want to buy that; It is more conditioning – they don’t have their own personality now.

No perspective of their own to see things. They, whatever is told to them morning till evening see, just blasted into their heads everyday they see in the television this, that, so that’s it; That must be the reason. – Things that were important here, have a special value. – No, it was, that’s what I am telling – [UNCLEAR] see there, they think to be thought of better – All imported thing? That’s everywhere but the Bohemian I’m saying, Bohemian glass was the cheapest of all. – with hand cut, you know. I was so surprised – I think, they would be very expensive here. – – Here? – The Bohemian glass will be very expensive here. – Here, so then New Zealanders are alright, then.

[LAUGHTER] I just couldn’t understand it. Perhaps, you see, what I judged must be this way. That it’s a Bohemian glass, then you have to be careful about it you have to keep it in the cupboard most of the time to see it and you don’t use it much, may be that it will break but it is cheaper than plastic then what’s the harm. German and Bohemian hand cut things they had, German, of course, was not so good. but Bohemian, I was surprised – so beautifully done. And the silver, the silver-plating was five years guarantee – such good and the cheapest of that was stainless steel – it was five times more expensive. Ask Warren. “Warren, just tell them about the shop where the stainless steel was five times more than the silver – wasn’t it?” We were get it through all this. It was Edmund’s of all things.

You know Edmund’s chain of stores in Australia and well, we were just going through everything. We found all this beautiful silver and then we started pricing the other things and finally we got worked away through the various metals and we got to this stainless steel and stainless steel was about three times the price. But it’s the other way around with glass too. Did Mother tell you? Bohemia Bohemian glass This hand-cut crystal was cheaper than [UNCLEAR] No, and the glass, ordinary glass was even more expensive than the pressed one