Seminar, Mahamaya Shakti, Morning

University of Birmingham, Birmingham (England)

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Mahamaya Shakti. Seminar in Birmingham (UK), 20 April 1985.

I knew English were the most intelligent people, but I must say they have also very sharp and pure intelligence to get to the right point.
It’s said that at Sahastrara the Goddess incarnates as Mahamaya. Because the job She has to do is of a very different nature. At the heart chakra, Anahata, She has to just defend, just defend the seekers from the clutches of the evil forces which are also not so subtle. They are very gross… like… forms, human forms. And it’s easy to fight and have a war with them, kill them.
But at the point of Sahastrara, the work is very complicated. First of all, the Sahastrara of the human beings is itself a very complicated thing.
First of all, it’s not that the time is very precarious, but also every country has its own complication to add to Sahastrara. Apart from that, you know, in Sahastrara we have got the seats of all the centres, not only the seven centres we are dealing with. And so many Nadis… are worked out through Sahastrara.

So the chakras, where the Deities have to work, have to deal with much less complications than the Deity at the Sahastrara where there are so many centres and so many Nadis, and it has to act on the Sahastraras of the seekers. Say for the Deity at the heart or at the Vishuddhi, the people are not so complicated, they have not to be given Realisation. Nothing has to happen to their brains as such. Only, you have to just see that they are protected through – that they achieve a sense of security – nothing more than that. They have to feel that they are secured with God. While the complication is so little that they’re extremely sensitive and they are absolutely dedicated. They are not to be told that “You have to sacrifice.” They are not to be told that, “You should become righteous or virtuous,” they are already righteous, virtuous, and also sacrificing. No one has to tell them. But in modern times, as you see, things are much more complicated. Human beings have complicated their brains so much. Complications after complications – when I see that, I just feel that Mahamaya is the only One who can save them.

Shri Krishna was also using a wee bit of it, but not in the way it is used today. One part of it is, that He could appear before people – very few, only Arjuna, – as the Virata. He could kill, people, with His Sudarshan. At the time of Christ also, Mahamaya Power acted – for His own life – That He was crucified and He was resurrected through Mahamaya power only. Because it is miraculous; Mahamaya Power is the miraculous Power of God.
And the miracles are created through His Power, before… was through the Deities themselves. Like it worked on the Deities. As Shri Rama Himself, turned a stone into a woman called Ahilya. He flushed? an arrow into the “sitanani” (Sita’s bath), where he got the water out. Mohammed Sahib hit a stone and got water out of it, same with Moses, the way He created way for the people to cross over. All these miracles are done through Mahamaya Power. But this power acts through these forces, through these Deities.

But today, it being incarnated in its full force, is acting through you, is acting towards you. It is helping you in a very big way which I don’t know if the complicated brains are aware of. So many dimensions it is working, because first of all, we have this horrible thing called ego. That we think we know everything, as I told yesterday, the theologians I described. Many people, in Sahaj Yoga also, think like that, start thinking that they are something great.
All that was first a gross attraction becomes very subtle attraction. They start using it. In both ways it acts. With some people it may act in a way that you want to enjoy the game of power, those who have missed it or those who know how to use it.

There could be another type who are the ones who think they have always suffered and they are suffering now also. There can be another type of a group of people, who – when they come to Sahaj Yoga – they have complications of emotions. I know of some people, I’ve heard, that they felt attraction for a man or a woman and they started behaving in that fashion – after coming to Sahaj Yoga. Sometimes the attraction to money, attraction to greed and lust becomes subtler.
So the Mahamaya being the subtler force, – is the subtlest of all – which you cannot understand and can explain through your brains, at all – acts and just stupefies, it stupefies them. Unless and until that is done they cannot stop it, they cannot cut themselves away.
They – in a subtler way – they remain the same, but not aware of it. People who are miserly become miserly, in a very subtle way, in a very sophisticated way, but they are miserly. Those who are dominating become dominating in a subtler way. Those who are murmuring are doing it in a subtler way; complaining are doing in a subtler way. And that’s why the Mahamaya acts.
First of all it stupefies you, completely. So you realise that whatever you think or react to something, to certain situations, it’s a Maya, is just a hallucination created.

Now for example we’ll take the second chapter of Gita, which is written about a “sthita pragya”, the one who is a Yogi, who is a Sahaja Yogi. To him everything should be “sama”: whether somebody insults you or whether somebody loves you; whether somebody discards you, whether somebody accepts you; whether somebody is generous to you or whether somebody is not generous to you – you are sthita pragya – makes no difference, he’s above everything, he is floating in the boat of joy. Nothing can disturb such a person. That’s the sign. If your joy can be disturbed by anything else that means you are not yet a full Sahaj Yogi. Now, when I see people getting involved into their backgrounds – we’ll take an example of Indians, for example. Is better to talk about others. [Laughter]
We can see the defects of others much more easily than our own. (laughter) That’s a human nature I understand that. [Laughter]
Now the Indians are very clever, as far as the spiritual side is concerned, I must say. Now, they would say that “We must have at least ten pujas somehow, when Mother comes here.” So they’ll manage, “This is also there,” then “This is also there,” then, “What about Mohammed Sahibs’ birthday?” then “What about Moses’ birthday? ” – which they don’t know, but they’ll find out somehow. (laughter) And then “What about also Lao-Tse’s birthday, why not find it out. So, when Mother is here, invariably every third day let us have a puja.”

So, I understand them very well. Because what happens in puja they know, because traditionally they know. Since the time of Vedas they know what happens: that in the puja, your Deities which are weak, are being also weakened by your own efforts, get suddenly strengthened, they get power. And that’s what you feel the power, but that’s again, I would say, a temporary sensation, because if you cannot maintain that vitality in them, then again they become weak. So, they know at the time of the puja we get that strength, so why not use Mother nicely, fix Her up. As soon as I go there, I’m fixed for pujas. First puja as soon as you arrive, second puja as soon as third day and fourth day, something like that.
I said, “What is that?” – “That’s Abrahams’ birthday.” (Laughter muffles a few more words.) – “Then you better do Abrahams’ puja – why Mine?” Everybody is anxious to pay for the puja, very anxious. And they are quite surprised, you see. I think last year it happened that some of the Europeans – because they are stupid on this point – they objected, “Why should we pay for the puja eleven rupees?” or something. And they were quite surprised, “They are so stupid, you see, we are cleverer than them.” What is eleven rupees, after all? So I have to stupefy them. And then, once they are stupefied during puja time. Somehow invariably it happens that they can’t do the puja.
There would be an “amavasya” [New Moon] that day, would be a day when there is no moon or maybe there is no Venus, Venus has to be there; something wrong in the dates or something in the “panchanga” which they consult; something wrong with the hall, you just don’t get it, suddenly dissolved. Or, there’s something happens to the main priest, who cannot come. They’re surprised, “Mother, why didn’t we have the puja?” I said, “Why don’t you do it yourself? Work it out! You have to deserve so many pujas, the way you are fixing me up. Do you deserve that? Do you have the pitchers to fill in all the Grace that I want to flow?” Normally, any fake Guru would love to have pujas after pujas, because he doesn’t have to do anything: you sit down, take all the money that comes in. Then they realise why everything has failed, despite it’s a puja-day. Why?
Because Mahamaya’s job is somehow to manage your ascent. First to cleanse you. Even cleansing is so difficult. Because, in a country like England or America or all these places where ego is so strong, if you tell anybody: “That’s wrong with you,” they are willing to leave Sahaj Yoga. If not Sahaja Yoga, they will say, “No, no, Mother, how can that be? I’m perfectly alright others are wrong. I’m the best.”
So one has to cleanse the person. And how do you do it? you have to stupefy that person. And that person himself has to realise, because in these modern times you cannot tell anything to anyone directly. They think they’re obliging me by being in Sahaja Yoga. They don’t know what they have achieved.
There was a fellow – who was very bad, I must say, in a way – he got a very big job somewhere, he told me he’s got a big job. And then he started misbehaving with some person. And he lost the job. “What happened?”
“I don’t know, they wrote to me that we are not wanted anymore.” Then I had to tell, “There must be something negative about you.” And then he confessed the thing to me. But why go this circuitous way?
Mahamaya also creates a big camouflage; I look like you, exactly like you. Not in the camera of course, camera is the one that exposes me many a times. [Laughter]
And, your eyes can sometimes discern something. You see some things, but you forget what you have seen, you forget all that. That’s also Mahamaya – Bhranti Rupena Samsthita.
That also gives you illusions, you forget all that. You forget how you got your Realisation, how you have been helped by Sahaj Yoga, how things worked out so well for you – everything you forget. That is also part of Mahamaya.
Why? The reason is you are to be tested – how much you are aware. You must be tested.
How far have you gone? If you can judge others, that doesn’t mean that you are very high. It is your Mother who has to judge you. You have to judge yourself. But if you have ideas that you can deceive Mahamaya, you cannot. But Mahamaya can deceive you, that’s the power of Mahamaya. It deceives you. Actually, there is no sin in deceiving somebody who is trying to be stupid. It deceives you, it makes you run towards the left when you have to go to the right; it makes you get hit; it makes you suffer a little bit – little bit, not much – so that you yourself in your own wisdom rise. Not to be satisfied with yourself, but rise into your ascent. So that you develop your own maturity to rise; that you don’t justify yourself, don’t appreciate yourself, don’t watch yourself, but you see that you ascend. I’ve known people in Sahaj Yoga who have been here for years together of no use. And at the right time they are hit back. But there are people who have shot up like anything in a very short time. And I hope they keep their ascent on.
So, on one side, it deceives you, it camouflages, you just don’t understand. Like I went to America and I deliberately asked people that you must get me some Coca-Cola when I’m sitting there, not water. When I started drinking the Coca-Cola you see, all the people who were there were surprised: “This lady’s taking Coca-Cola, how can She be Adi Shakti? [Laughter]
How can Adi Shakti drink Coca-Cola? [Laughter]
She should only drink Amrut, the Ambrose, how can She drink Coca-Cola?” But Mahamaya can convert Coca-Cola into Amrut. Whatever She touches get transformed.
Like, in the pujas, I wouldn’t say I do it so deliberately or with action about it, but sometimes it works out through the Deities also, because now They understand what is Their job. They understand that this is the Advent of the Mahamaya. And They have to see to it that whatever They do should create that charisma, as they call it – is a kind of a illusion, a kind of a illusion that shows like a miracle. They work it out also the same way.
When normally – if Shri Krishna has to work out, He could just go and immediately take out the head of the person and finished with it, – bulletin, as they call it. But He does not do, I have seen that, He’s very clever now, He does not do it. He has other ways of grabbing people, who are against Sahaja Yoga: they just can’t talk; they lose their voices; they look stupid. Because in this Mahamaya-state all this is done just to prove that God is there. In all other incarnations nobody challenged God. He did not have to prove it. Now we have to prove that there is God. That’s why the Mahamaya acts in that fashion. That it takes you round and round till you see it through. It must be approved by your brain that you have understood what Mahamaya is. Otherwise anybody can say, “I am God, I’m this, I’m that.” It has to be proved, means your brain must accept, mentally you must accept that, “Yes, it’s true.” And that’s why all this drama is played by Mahamaya.

The miracle of Kundalini awakening also stupefies Me, sometimes, really, it stupefies Me. How it works in thousands of people: When I went to Dharamshala, when these villagers had come, I was really surprised. When I went there they were just waiting for the Goddess to come in from… as if She’s going to come from heaven or something, least bothered as to where they were sitting, who were the people there, nothing – all waiting, anxiously.
And when I reached there, I talked to them – no question, nothing. And while talking to them the Kundalini rose, they got their Realisation. And what is it? They said, “We have come here for the Devi Jagran – Awakening of the Goddess. And we know you are the Mahamaya. So we are not going to be worried about what you are going to say. Whether you abuse us or do what you like, we know you are a Mahamaya, we know. Whatever you may do to us is for our good, we know that. Whatever you may say to us we accept it. Give us awakening. That’s all.
We’ll not challenge you , we’ll not say anything whatever you say is alright.”
I mean, sometimes I talk about cement, about building, about this. Normally I talk about this things you see, normally. But abnormally sometimes, about the Spirit, because people don’t like it, I think. But even when I am talking about cement, I’m melting the cement within you. And they said: “We don’t care, Mother, even if you take a big hunter in your hand and beat us, it’s alright. We know you are testing us, but we know you are the Mahamaya. It’s all said, you are!” They were not bothered as to what Sari I was wearing, what ornaments I was wearing – nothing. To them it was that, “She’s come now. She’s going to give us Realisation.”
They had no image or mental projection about it – nothing. They knew that I was going to come and that they are going to get the reward of age-old seeking of theirs, that’s all. For such people it’s a pleasure to work, it’s a pleasure to meet. That’s real joy-giving thing for your Mother. And that’s what they know, that only one thing is going to give joy to our Mother is our ascent – nothing else.
And to them they are insignificant, except that they have to have their Realisation otherwise nothing matters. Nobody told me the problems of their families – nothing, nothing, nothing. Such pure-hearted people there are, who know what is a Mahamaya.
“Maha” means the great, because it has all the powers of all the Deities, it controls all the Deities; it surmounts over all the Deities. And “Maya” also means love and compassion. All this effort for what? People don’t understand. In the west people don’t understand why am I doing it? There must be some reason. It’s compassion. But the play of the compassion comes through the Mahamaya power. The play of the compassion – it doesn’t come directly, like, as somebody would say, “Alright, now, come along, I’ll give you 100 pounds, have it.” That’s crude way of doing things. Mahamaya won’t work like that. You are in trouble and you ask for money, “What am I to do, Mother?” Suddenly you find on the post somebody sends you money, saying, “Oh, I had borrowed money from you long time back and I felt an urge that I must return. This is your money.” And you have forgotten that you had lent that money to that person, whether really you have lent him or not. You start wondering and you get the money. That’s Mahamaya, it’s the gracious way.
When you are in trouble; accidents… or any physical harm being done to you, then the Mahamaya acts in such a way that you are stupefied and the whole being is filled with gratitude.
I told you the experience of one airlines man who was travelling by a plane which was hijacked, and the people who hijacked tried to open the door of the [cock]pit where he was sitting as an engineer. But he wouldn’t open, so they put a bullet through and the bullet did not hit him, it went on the sides.
So, they pushed the door and came in and they put two bullets at him and both of them went on the sides. Just imagine, with this little distance. In the [cock]pit there isn’t much space, but somehow the bullets went on the sides. And he was just saying, “Mother, please look after me,” that’s all, you see.
Then they got so angry that they took out their daggers and started hitting him on the head and the daggers bent. [Laughter]
And they started looking at the dagger and his face. They said, “What are you saying?” He said, “No, nothing, I’m just asking Mother to look after me. That’s all.” They looked at him and then they became very friendly, very friendly. [Laughter]
His wife had gone to America. And just see, I must have given saris to most of you, so many things I must have given, I don’t even remember. I had given her one sari. So when she heard about it, she said: “Nothing can happen to me, Mother has given Me the sari.” She just took the sari to her heart. And she said, “I know, this sari is the protection for me. And nothing can happen to my husband.” She didn’t go back to India. She was sure he will be alright. Because it quite circuitous to go to Pakistan and all that. And he was alright.
That is how the Mahamaya works – in a gracious way. In a way that doesn’t make you feel that it’s so gross and direct way of doing things. It doesn’t talk about it, say about it. I mean, I never want to say how much money I would have to spend or I have spent, but the Mahamaya plays on me, and somehow or the other exposes me too. Even if I try to hide it, it just gets exposed. It’s a good play, sometimes on me of Mahamaya; how it plays on me because the Deities, you see, they also sometimes try to play tricks with me.

As I told them that they had bought a shawl for Me, for the Guru puja, and I said, “Now, if you have bought the shawl I’m not going to take a sari at any cost, whatever you may do.” They said, “Mother, but we’ve bought the sari. We’ve done the petticoat.” I said, “Whatever it is, I’m not going to take it now at any cost, whatever may happen, I’m not taking it.”
They were very sorry, you know. Because I must have maryadas. “I must teach them maryadas,” I thought. The Deities are very cunning. So, before the puja I went to the bathroom, just to wash my feet – you see that’s our Indian style, we wash our feet. So just went there to wash my feet and the taps in India are at any level, you see they can be here or they can be there, [Laughter] can be there. There’s no restriction on that, you see? [Laughter]
So this tap was quite high. So I tried to open it, you see, and the whole thing opened out and the whole thing came out… [Laughter]
And I got completely drenched, completely from top to bottom. And I came out, and I said: “Now I’ll have your sari.” [Laughter]

Like this [Shri Mataji also chuckles] and they were all very mischievously smiling, you know, such a beautiful feeling of love. See that – I should have thought, after all, “What is a sari?” If they want to give me, I should have taken it. And their love was so great. What is in a price of a sari, nothing. You see the love of these people played upon me. And the surprising thing was the sari had the colour that a Guru should wear… and it was so remarkable.

All the time, throughout the puja my eyes were filled with tears, such tremendous joy. How the Deities, how my children are one with each other, how they are enjoying the rapport of each other. That’s the first sign of a Sahaja Yogi: is he getting related to the Deities, is he behaving in the way the Deities behave? They do not question, they just love Me, that’s all, just love. And in that love they play tricks on Me, I know. I don’t mind. All such little, little tricks played on Me, are perfectly alright. Because they love Me. There are so many instances I can give you, where they have expressed their sweet love for Me. In the same way when I find the Sahaja Yogis.

Like this time, I’m told that people had grudges that they were asked for money in India. Now I’m rather surprised at that, very much surprised and shocked. Because in India, every year, established Sahaja Yogis try to donate money for all the projects they are going to have, for you people. They don’t need… any projects.
About 10 lakhs of Rupees [a Million] Bombay Sahaj Yogis have donated and about 6 or 7 lakhs of Rupees Delhi Sahaj Yogis have donated.

Even places like Rahuri and all that have donated money for the projects they want to have for you, your children, for your retirements. And the first time… first time in all your life in Sahaj Yoga, the money was asked for – that too not much, 750 Rupees is nothing.
And people felt funny about it, I’m rather surprised, that… why people felt that way when, the first time. That also [was] for your projects, for your children, for your places. And they collected the money, brought it to me.
Out of which I bought the land for you, and the remaining money I was left with, so I said, “You better put it into the Life Eternal Trust, which is now going to be completely exhausted.” They said, “No, Mother, you have no car. You travel by all these old cars and things and you don’t want to take a new taxi, because you don’t want us to pay for that. So why don’t you buy this car, for you rself out of this money?” I said, “So sweet of them, to think of my comfort.” I mean I can buy a car of my own, no problem on that. By God’s grace, C.P. has that much money to pay for a car for me, he would love to do that.
But this gesture, this gesture was so beautiful! And when I refused, the situation developed in such a manner that I could not refuse that money as there was no – that money was collected out of the Sahaj Yogis and we have to have certificates that you have… sort of gone through the right exchange and this and that, but I could put it as my own money, I had to.
That’s all worked out by Deities I think, again. So when there’s a complete concord between you and the Deities, then you can use the Mahamaya power very well on other people. Before that you cannot – you are using other powers. These are just, what we call the siddhis, not the shudra siddhis, not the bad things, but the good siddhis that you get. Like you can cure people – is nothing great. You collectively you feel another person. Nothing great, but you don’t feel yourself, you don’t see your own chakras. You not bothered about yourself. You can be saved, you are protected, you are helped, you are getting material help, you also enjoy spiritual life.
But still you have to go much further to get to Mahamaya powers. You have to go much further to be identified with the Deities. They are at the beck and call of your Mother, beck and call. Even if I do not call Them, They work it out. Like yesterday I did not know there was somebody from the Archbishop, Bishop of Canterbury, I did not know at all. And somebody had come there, as an observer. I had no idea, only Gavin told me he saw him getting up, he didn’t know that he was in the audience. And I really [Shri Mataji burts into laughter] blasted him completely I’m sure. [Laughter]

That’s all the work of the Deities, They just turn my mind towards that, They always give me the full idea as to what sort of an audience sitting before me. Complete information, a perfect information. Now a person comes and tells me about someone – that’s also very common, very common with Sahaja Yogis, in the west specially. They’ll always tell about someone. I’ve not seen anyone, so far, coming and saying, “Mother, I’ve got an ego, please correct it. Mother, I’ve got a superego, please correct it. Mother, I’ve got this problem, please correct it.” Always “That person has this problem, that person has that problem,” they see others, very clearly, because we are extroverts. And when they tell me, just paying attention to what they are telling me, not only that I find out about that person, what’s wrong with that person, but also I find out what’s wrong about the person about whom they are telling, how far to believe these people who are coming to tell me something.
Like in India, there’s one fellow who is always a murmuring soul, you see, he thinks he does a lot of things to Sahaja Yoga, this and that. And he formed about five-six people – cliques, you see, – and they came to see me. Very seriously sitting down, “We have come for a very serious job!” I said, “What is that?” So, they said, “Certain person who is a big politician, and he’s just trying to mislead you , we have come to warn you about this man. You be very careful!” I said: “Really?”
So, just for a second, split of a second, I went through my computer, you see. [Laughter] to find out what this fellow is like.
I said: “Have you told everything about him?” They said: “Yes!” “Nothing more to be told? Sure?” They said, “Nothing more!” “Alright! I’ll tell you: This man has a wife who is not his wife, has an illegitimate child. He’s like this, his caste is this, his father is like this, mother like this, brother like this, and this, and this, and this. [Laughter]
Go back with your non serious jobs of looking after your Spirit.”
There is no need to advise me. I give you time, I talk to you because I love you very much. But I love you because you are seekers, because you have to ascend, because you are a quality. But you are not aware of your quality. Then I have no try some tricks on you. And then you realise, that, “Whatever we were thinking was all wrong.” Best way is to surrender. Anything comes into your head like that, best way is to surrender. Because you must know [end of the tape] that the deity of Mahamaya is extremely….
[Break in recording]

…For this understanding you must ascend. There should be spiritual ascent. Otherwise you cannot understand. If you are living with your ego and superegos, you cannot understand. As it is this is Mahamaya, no one can understand Her. Even Brahma, Vishnu, Mahesha could not understand, it’s so tremendous. It has played tricks on Them also. But at least you’ll enjoy the play. You’ll be a vehicle. You ’ll be an instrument of that great power and you yourself will see how you play Mahamaya tricks on others. This is again a promise of Mahamaya, so be careful. (laughter) It’s already been said, you have already noticed, you have already seen it, it will not reveal to you everything, because you cannot bear it, the revelation.
But slowly you will see it. But you must have power to bear it. If you have that power, then there cannot be anything in between you and me. We all can become one with that.

This Mahamaya power is the one which has given you Realisation, is the one which is guiding you, which is helping you. So many of you are still keeping to one deity. Like some people who were worshipping Shiva are still with Shiva, some with Vishnu, some with Christ; They’re all with me, all integrated. They still go back to the same, I have seen. That’s a dangerous thing because They won’t stand with you in that. Still the attachments are there. There are also very subtler attachments. Get out of it! You should have only one attachment and that is to Mahamaya, and nothing else. And that’s how it is going to work out further.
It’s not difficult for you to understand because you have sharp intelligence. But it doesn’t go in the heart, more in the brain, while those who have lesser intelligence have a larger heart, it goes into their brain very easily.
Supposing I go to India. You know all the villagers of India. What will give them the greatest pleasure, if I ask for something? Supposing I tell a poor man: “Can I have half a gram of gold?” He will never question. He said, “There must be something, She is Mahamaya, if She has said it there must be something.”
He’ll beg, borrow, steal, do something and get it for me. Because he sees the complete dimension of that saying that, “You have to get me this.” He sees it, he knows it, and he’ll work it out in every way possible.
What is to be done? He’ll not think he has to borrow, he has to do this. He’s not bothered about this.

There’s story of Shivaji which I must have told you before also, that his Guruji wanted to take his test. Because Mahamaya is a testing… testing power. And he said… to his disciples he said: “I’ve got a terrible boil on my foot which is about to burst out,” a huge thing he had here, tied up. “And it’s leaking now with the pus is coming out. And I cannot get it cured unless and until one of you can suck it.” – Imagine! How many of you would agree? Won’t even think of it, isn’t it? What a test! And especially Indians who are so worried about their personal cleanliness. They wash their hands fifty times. So everybody looked at it, quite worried. [Laughter]
Shivaji had come that time. And Shivaji said: “Alright, I will do it.” And it was a mango he had put in there. And he sucked it and he said: “It’s very nice and sweet…!”[Laughter]
One day again he asked that: “I want the milk of a tigress.” Everybody was quite frightened. Who is going to milk the tigress? Shivaji said: “Alright, I’ll go!” He went in the forest, and he was looking out for a tigress who has given her cubs a – they, they are even worse. And he saw some cubs there. So he went near them and he started saying: “See, my guru wants your mother’s milk. Can I have it? I want to have your mother’s milk!” The tigress was looking at him. And he bowed to her. He said: “You see, my guru wants your milk. What am I to do?” And she could see that. She came and stood before him. He had taken a pot with him. He milked her. And he took that for his guru because even a tiger, even a serpent respects the dedication to Reality. And that’s what is lacking. And once that is lacking, you cannot be respected. And you have to respect yourself. Whether others respect you or not, makes no difference at all whatsoever. But if you have respect for you, you won’t bother about what others have to say. I can make out people who are intensely seeking, who are just seeking, who are just here because of certain relations are here, or something like that. Now those who are intensely seeking will get what they have asked me for, and that has everything in it, everything. And those who are casual will also get casual results, that’s all. So the intensity will be fulfilled with much greater intensity! No use looking at others; look at yourself. If you are losing your joy, you are no more a Sahaja Yogi! You have to be in joy, then only you are a Sahaj Yogi.

Mahamaya is a very big subject. I can write a complete book on it. I think in this short time, whatever is possible I have tried to tell you.
But I would like you to ask me questions today because Sahaj Yogis never ask questions. In a seminar they should. You are not in thoughtless awareness just now. Mahamaya can work it out. Please, ask me questions. And don’t murmur at the back. If you have any questions, please ask me.
Another point about Mahamaya is: you being the Mahamaya, you are not afraid. Supposing, Chandi has to stand here with Her sword in Her hand, nobody would dare go near Her. But despite that you people shake sometimes, I don’t know why!
Ask some questions – important.

Sahaja Yogini: Mother, I have a question. When the energy is coming out like this – to the head, and it’s going to the back and to the front and – I don’t really know – I don’t have the clear feeling yet if it’s coming up and down here, or if it’s coming here and here. And when it goes to here, I’m told it’s the four stages above the head, the Ardha Bindu and up there – it’s going up there. I’m not quite sure how it’s going through the head, because on your diagram which you drew in “Nirmala Yoga,” there’s only the beginning part, And I’d like you to tell us how it’s flowing through the head, if it’s coming up and down or going like that?
Shri Mataji: In your case it is going from which side? you feel it’s going this way and that way?
Sahaja Yogi: This way.
Shri Mataji: you feel that way…
Sahaja Yogi: Yes.
Shri Mataji: …not from the centre.
Sahaja Yogi: I’m confused. Feels sometimes like it comes like a chrysanthemum, like that somehow.
Shri Mataji: That means it is going to your ego and superego, both sides. So that what has to be done is to pray to the deity of Christ, so that He sucks in your egos and superegos. When it is sucked, then only you can go in the centre. It is trying to cleanse your ego and superego.
You see wherever you have a problem the Kundalini goes there. Supposing you have a liver problem. You can see it. On my feet when you come, supposing you have a liver problem, you will see the Kundalini pulsating at the liver.
Supposing you have a problem of ego-superego, then it goes and works there, tries to clarify it and cleanse it. But if you can work out the deity of forgiveness – that’s Christ – it can suck in. So we have to use both the things; we have to use the Kundalini as well as the deities. All right? You must pray. You must pray to Me. Meditation doesn’t mean that you don’t pray. You r prayers are like mantras. You must pray.
That’s a good question. …Now better. It’s rising in the centre.

Sahaja Yogi: Mother…
Shri Mataji: What’s that?
Sahaja Yogi: It’s one prayer, Mother, for the whole tour of England and Cardiff also of course.
Shri Mataji: Cardiff … (Mother chuckles.) Yaa. Cardiff. Should work out in Cardiff. How do you find?
Sahaja Yogi: Many false gurus. They are more active than us, in fact.
Shri Mataji: False gurus are there…
Sahaja Yogi: Yes, very much, yes.
Shri Mataji: In Cardiff? No-more in London. [Laughter]
Sahaja Yogi: We have newer problems here.
Shri Mataji: I was telling Gavin that you must arrange your tours in England. I can’t do it now any more. I shouldn’t do it, because I’ve done – I mean, every country says that, that: “Mother, you have gone through England so many times, up and down. You have really done all the crossroads of England. But you couldn’t do that to our country!” While, now you are so many people, you have to.
That you have to do it now, you have to go on touring now; Cardiff is a good invitation. You people should go and work it out. Now there will be holidays, you should go to different places where I’ve been and work it out. It can be arranged very easily as you have got your friends there, you’ve got your centres there. You all should go, advertise, work it out, put posters, things like that. You all can work it out – as if I’m going there. You can use my tapes. Yesterday’s was a tremendous tape. [That] could be used. Whatever tape you want, you can ask then, we can do it. We can also show them our video tapes. I think you all should arrange it and organise it. Little money is to be shelled out, doesn’t matter. It’s like a holiday.
I mean, those who want to come to India should come, if they have money, otherwise they shouldn’t come. For the first four years, I paid for their stay, everything I paid. Gavin will tell you that. But now I can’t do it, I’m sorry, for so many people. You have to pay for your food and for your travelling. But you must now take it up as a real job for you to go round England, talk to people, take groups there, advertise, and work it out – that’s what you have to do. It’s not such a big country. You are quite a lot of people. Twelve Disciples of Christ spread Christianity to this extent.

And most surprising, all the gurus are well known everywhere; I’m not so known. The reason is the Sahaja Yogis enjoy their Spirit – finished. That’s one part. You have to do it.
This is what you have to give: is to spread Sahaja Yoga. Maybe, some people may not like you and may reject you, they may say horrible things to you. You might find certain Sahaja Yogis fighting with you there – also Sahaja Yogis when they are going for the work, they do not work as a team, they fight. Indians can’t understand. See they’ve been listening to you they can’t understand: “Why these people have arguments?” I said: “They enjoy arguments for argument’s sake! They don’t mean anything serious.” They don’t talk, they don’t argue. They’re just enjoying. So many of them told me that: “They argue too much, they talk too much. They argue all the time among themselves.” “They like to argue,” that’s what I told them. But this is what it is. You have to go and that will really help you for your ascent. Because why should God give you light if you cannot give it to others? But it should not be a thing that it is a play of your power. It is your dedication it is your service, for that you should not expect a reward in any way. Nor you should try to dominate others. Both things are wrong. If we decide that we have to do something, there are holidays now. Three months holidays, I’ll be going to Europe. You please work it out, it’s a very good chance. my absence can provide a very good chance for you. That’s what my idea was, that you will take it over. Now you don’t wait for my signalling, please do it. Those who want to do this work raise your hands, let’s see. That’s it. [Shri Mataji laughs.] Really? Thank you. I believe you. Thank you.
Why should I worry now for England? England is ours, with so many hands and swords coming out. So I leave it to you now to decide, form a committee, who will go where. Do not do simultaneously. Put a force on one place, say Cardiff, you… so many should go.
Arrange for your food and all that, pay for it, manage it, somehow. There are some cheap places where you can go and stay. Work it out. You can have some vans and some lorries or something, or trucks if you want. [Laughter]
We are truck loads, with banners, go round and do the job. Talk to people, talk to people in the market places, everywhere. You all can do it. Enjoy these three months like that.
Then you need not go to India if you don’t want to. If you want to go, you can go. This is not compulsory, or on the contrary I find it difficult if it’s a big number sometimes. But it’s for your good, you will go there for enjoying, for your own Self.
We say that in Sahaja Yoga we don’t take money, that’s me, I don’t take money, it’s the point. I don’t take money, but doesn’t mean that: “We don’t pay,” I mean that, “We don’t pay for our food,” or as if the Sahaja Yogis are on dole, from Mother.
Is it that way? Does that mean that? We have to pay for our food; we have to pay for our stay; everything we have to pay, as respectable people. I had said once that we should not be without jobs. That’s not very good for us. But now this country has so much of joblessness, it’s better to take to that also.
Some people who cannot afford should not starve themselves for that. I don’t want that. If you are not getting a job, it’s alright. You can take a dole till you get your jobs. Don’t starve yourself. That’s not my point also.
If you don’t get a job, then you can take a dole or whatever is the way is in this country. But don’t starve yourself and don’t keep yourself inadequate. You can take a dole. But that doesn’t mean those who have jobs should give up jobs. [Laughter]
But you are employed by God, know that. You are employed by God.
Any other question?

Sahaja Yogi: Mother, what is the relation between Mahakali and Mooladhara chakra and how could we strengthen that energy within the left side?
Shri Mataji: What he say?
Warren: He’s asking what is the relation of Mahakali with the Mooladhara chakra and how we can strengthen that energy of left side.
Shri Mataji: Mahakali’s the Mother of Shri Ganesha. She’s the Mother. She’s the power of Shri Ganesha. He exists because to Him He doesn’t know anybody else but His Mother. And He knows that She’s the most powerful; I have told you the story of Shri Ganesha and Kartikeya. That when Parvati-Mahakali… Shiva asked Them, that “If one of you can go round the Mother Earth, then I’ll give you some prise. And whosoever come first, will get the prise.” So Kartikeya had a peacock, while Ganesha had just a mouse, little mouse. So He didn’t know how to do it. So He took to His wisdom. He just thought: “Who is greater than my Mother Mahakali? No one. Not even my father, because He can’t exist without Her. He has no light without Her, He has no power without Her, so She’s the highest.” He said “So why go round this Mother Earth? This is the highest of highest.” He went round Her. He got the prise. [Laughter]
But Mooladhara is the big problem, I must say.
Will I have another chance to talk to you?
Sahaja Yogi: Later… All weekend.
Shri Mataji: Then I think I’ll do that later because I want to talk on that very much. I think we have talked about one point, is the sin against the Father – to feel insecured about money. I see Rustom. Look at Rustom. He’s saving money. “Mother, whatever you want, I’m save…” I mean, I don’t want it now, no question I mean. But he says “I’m saving money for that.” He’s got a big job; he’s saving money for that!
Those who are insecured about money must know, “What are we saving out of whatever we have?”
I don’t have any need just now. But he wrote to me, “Mother, I got this job because of you . Otherwise I cannot think of getting this job.”
In that way, we have to think about the sin against the Father, to feel insecured about money, to talk about money, to worry about money. Alright have it! That’s the way one should be. Though I’ve never asked you for money so far. I have never asked.
This is one side of all this. The sin against the Mother I want to talk to you later when we have the puja. Will that be better? Alright.
What about your seminar programming? (Yogis laugh.) Is a Mahamaya? [A yogi makes a comment about planning. Shri Mataji & yogis laugh.]

Any other question?
You must ask Me a question of this kind, nature. What others would ask you a question, which you won’t be able to answer – that’s a better way. What others would ask you a question, which you cannot answer. Yes.

Sahaja Yogini: Lot of people ask now, how do we know that the vibrations are right, are telling what’s right. Well they have Realisation, but they wanted to see more (concerning?) it in a way to know that it’s right. How can we explain to them that it’s right?
Shri Mataji: This is right or wrong? “Because,” you have to say that, “Relatively you have to understand. Now see, we think that this is – these are flowers, alright? Because we can see it clearly that these are flowers.
And you ask five-six people ‘What are these?’ They’ll say, ‘These are flowers!’ But if you ask a blind person, he might say, ‘These are snakes,’ because he can feel it through his hands and he cannot understand what it is.
All right? In the same way, supposing you ask a question, ‘Is there God?’ you get vibrations tremendous. If you ask a question: ‘Am I the Spirit?’ you get lots of vibrations coming in. Then you get a madman, and put your hands towards the person, you start burning your hands. He’s definitely approved, certified mad person. So then it is proved that what the vibrations are telling, is the truth.”
Once in Puna, first time when I went there, the program was arranged in a hall, Rajwari’s Hall, who is a Brahmin. You see he was a brahmin a very austere type of a Brahmin. And when they told that I’m not a Brahmin, he hesitated and the committee, you see, decided that we can’t have a program because She’s not a brahmin. [Laughter.]
Again Mahamaya. I’m the Creator of Brahmins, isn’t it? [Laughter]
So, I did not know actually what was happening, because nobody told me anything about it. And they said that: “Alright, if you don’t want to have Her program, we’ll give it in the newspapers that “No program, because She’s not a Brahmin. Because we have already published in newspaper that there’s going to be Her program.” They got a fright, you see, they thought: “No, no, no, this cannot be. Then they will say “We’re very… sort of… people, fanatics, and things like that.” Because Brahmins are that way hated in India. So they said: “No, no, don’t, don’t do that. Alright, we’ll have Her program.” So when I was having the program, you see there were about six-seven people sitting here – they were shaking like this. So I thought I better play a trick on them. But I didn’t know this had happened. I didn’t know anything about it, the background. So, I said “Those who are Brahmins, please come forward.” So five-six of them – because poor Mr. Rajwari Agnihotri was suffering from… deadening… arthritis, he was sitting on that gallery there, – while four, five of them came forward, as Brahmins you see came forward, sat. I looked at them, “So you are brahmins?” “Yes!” One more joined them. “Very good, more the merrier!” (laughter) And then I said: “Now put your hands towards me, like this.” They all started shaking. (laughter) Worse than the man! So… I said “Now, why are you shaking? If you are brahmins, you should not shake!” He said: “Mother, you are the Shakti, that’s why we are shaking!” “And see there’s people also shaking this side.” I said: “Ask them ‘from where do they come?’” So, they asked them: “From where do you come?” They said: “We are coming from lunatic asylum, (laughter) all of us, from Thana.” I said: “Now you see, relatively…..” [Laughter and applause.] That is how you have to say how the vibrations are right. Alright?
Now, what other questions they would ask?
Yes.

Sahaja Yogini: Mother, when we go round with posters, putting them up in the shops, the people always ask us, “What is Sahaj, what do you mean?” And in a shop, when you putting up a poster, you don’t have time to go into great detail. What is the best way to just tell them what is Sahaj, before you put the poster up?
Shri Mataji: Sahaj means spontaneous, is a spontaneous happening, is a living force of God which works out a living thing. Something that is living because God is a living force. That is accepted. At that, the Holy Ghost itself has to give you the birth, and the Holy Ghost resides within us in the triangular bone which gives us. And it’s a living happening within us which takes place, which has taken place so far – the way we have evolved into a human level. And now, to go further, there is this force within us which we have experienced, we have seen and you have to get it. And that’s how you proceed. See, if they are Christians, start it with Holy Ghost, it’s better. If they are Hindus, it’s not difficult. If they are Muslims, also you can tell them that Mohammad Sahib talked about Assas, talked about you have to be a Wali – you have to become a Realised soul. He talked that at the time of resurrection your hands will speak. So He talked of the future. How do you stop it at Mohammad? He talked of the future, throughout He talked of the future.
Moreover, I would say one more thing, we must have study groups in Sahaja Yoga, very important. I find many people are there, quite a big percentage, who do not know much about Sahaj Yoga. They are enjoying themselves, they have got vibrations, they have got this – but they don’t know much about it. They haven’t – so many of them are just worshipping “Advent” like “Bible,” you see. I hope they do not make a microscopic copy of that and put it here, as Sahaj Yogis, you see. [Laughter]
Everything is possible with you. So. You must understand, Advent is just a wee bit of it, but try to understand Sahaj Yoga. And some people understand it very well. Some people – mentally, you must understand Sahaj Yog first of all. Then we have other books on Sahaj Yog which you must read, which are simpler books. Then you can ask questions to deal – you must have a study group.

Alexander started a study group on Sahaj Yoga. And he charges some money. He says: “It works better, Mother.” But I said: “Why do you charge money?” He said: “For the hall. But I tell them I am charging this money for learning Sahaj Yog.” There’s a course in Sahaj Yoga he started. You ’ll be surprised I was not for it. But it works better! People are knowing about Sahaj Yoga. They are trying to bring paper and pencil and understand each and everything, like a school. I mean if you need that, you better do it. I don’t know why you have to pay but, I think he does that very well and French are getting better than English according to him, as far as the knowledge of Sahaj Yoga is concerned. So it’s better you all work it out that way I think. Whichever way is useful for you. This is “samayaachaar”[conventional or established practice], you see. We are so money oriented, is better we start with the money and end up with the Spirit.
Babaa! I don’t know what to say because I don’t want anything out of it. But if that can screw up your heads, better have it! I mean I don’t know whatever way it suits you. I never liked publication or advertising through handbills, but I had to agree to it and I have agreed now. Because it’s some different world we are facing. So do whatever way you like – that’s not important. But you must know about Sahaj Yoga. Because when you are talking about Sahaj Yoga, you should be knowledgeable, isn’t it? Otherwise, they’ll say something which I’ve never said: “Mother says so.” And I’m shocked: “When – how could I say such a thing!” Best way to know about Sahaj Yoga better, is that you compare it with other sayings, with other literature, with other scriptures, with other saints. That’s a very good way, there’s a very good book in Marathi has come out, where Sahaj Yoga is described through many saints. You can find out things like that, write essays on that, something like that you can have a competition on essays, I don’t know how the mind goes to that, that you must have the knowledge. Is not enough to be joyous, because then you cannot be a Guru. If you have to be a guru, if you have to spread Sahaj Yoga, you must know about Sahaj Yog, isn’t it? That’s it!

Now, any other question?
Now I’m saying all this – I hope it is recorded – that firstly you have to have a committee for people who travel around, and proper arrangements to be made, and all planning to be done: Who is travelling where, how we are going, when is the holiday time, do it in the weekends – whichever suits you.
Secondly, how to improve the knowledge of Sahaj Yoga? There’s another method they try in India which you can try also here, is they put on my tapes and ask people to take notes whatever they think important. Then discuss among themselves, talk about it; everybody has to talk and understand. And whatever point they don’t understand, they write to me, “Mother, this point we did not understand. Will you explain?” That’s also a good way.
And now what to do with that?

Sahaja Yogi: Yes, the question is, what is the importance of spreading the vibrations in the environment. Like if we speak of scientists, they say that electromagnetic vibrations are there, the electromagnetic vibrations perform a function. So we can say to them that these vibrations that we have as a result of Sahaja Yoga is flowing through us and is doing something for the environment. So if you can please say something about what it does to the environment.

Shri Mataji: Now electromagnetic vibrations are the right sided vibrations are, of the dead, we shall say. Now our vibrations are what we are calling this Chaitanya, is the combination of all these three plus the “Ardha Matra” [or “Ardha Bindu” is the semicircle; together with the “Bindu” they represent the Adi Shakti in AUM] is the Adi Shakti on top of that.
So we have four types of vibrations [A, U, M and the Ardha Matra on top] integrated in these vibrations: emotional side, evolutionary and the one that is electromagnetic. So we have all these vibrations within us integrated, and on top of that is the fourth one which is the Adi Shakti’s vibrations. They organise, they think, they work out, they direct, they choose, they do everything which is the administrative side. So we have four types of vibrations within us.

Now see a camera. I’ll tell you an example. I went to a station for my own photographs. So there were four photographs every time I come in. The first one didn’t have so much depth, second one improved, the third one improved, and the fourth one was the best. What happened that when the first photograph came in, it received some vibrations, I think, and it changed electromagnetic into the Chaitanya, little bit. And the fourth one was good. Like you people, when you take my photograph, I’m very much different from the photographs taken by people who are not Sahaja Yogis. Sometimes I look in those photographs, otherwise, as if I am standing with somebody with a pistol at my back. [Laughter]

But the camera, which is not touched by anyone, which is facing Me all the time, records so many things which normally people cannot. Now you know that the people who were taking very good photographs have suddenly lost that power, because their ego has come up. They have started thinking they were very great photographers, this, that and thinking no end of themselves. So their photographs are not showing such results. The other day, I saw a photograph of Mine and I told the person who has taken the photograph and he was amazed. How did I know? I said: “I can see all the chakras represented in this photograph.”
From the photograph, I can make out who has taken the photograph.
So when a person is dealing with these electromagnetic vibrations say, for example: here are electromagnetic vibrations, isn’t it? [Shri Mataji touches the microphone.]
Simple as that, here, on this. Now they receive my vibrations, and whatever I talk becomes a mantra. When I blow in this, I blow in your Sahastrara.

Electromagnetic is a wee bit of a dimension, one third of the right side – one third of the right side electromagnetic – out of which this Universe is created. Then, there are other vibrations which are beyond electromagnetic. Like, we have five elements. Electromagnetic are only two elements, two elements which are combined together; it’s very easy to combine two elements: no permutations and combinations. But when there are five elements, these three combinations can make so many varieties and they are all right sided. So you can imagine there are so many vibrations on the right side.
We are using the ether for example. Ether we use for broadcasting. We think it’s only electromagnetic – is a wrong idea. Now when I speak, say, and broadcasting it goes in the ether, it’s the Adi Shakti. So it governs it. Then it manages things. It can work on your Sahastrara. It can work on so many Kundalinis. It can work on the nature. But they are so frightened of Me they never allow Me to go on the TV, the negative.
So electromagnetic are just a wee part of it as I told you, it’s just the combination of the Mother Earth and electricity. That is, we can say, comes out of the water element. That’s all.

Electromagnetic things have helped in one way in creating life. Because where there were only gases created – helium, hydrogen, oxygen – it was the electrical charge, which changed them into life. Amino-acids where formed like that. But the electrical charge also changed them because there was Adi Shakti’s power working on them. The administration was done by Adi Shakti’s power. So it’s just a wee bit of it.
And if you have to achieve anything on the electromagnetic you can show wonders out of it, wonders! Vibrations can pass onto it – means that it administers those vibrations which are sound vibrations, now for example, take it as sound vibrations, are carried by electromagnetic vibrations. In the same way, Chaitanya can be carried on electromagnetic vibrations. They can be carriers, but Chaitanya cannot carry electromagnetic.

All right? You are all stunned by my knowledge or what? [Laughter]

Any other question? Yes. Little loudly from that distance.

Sahaja Yogi: Mother, can you explain the relationship between the geographical locations in the world and the microcosmic being, of us individuals, in relationship?
Shri Mataji: Gavin?
Gavin: He’s asking about the expression of the Kundalini in the world as a whole, if you can say something about that, how the geographical locations correspond to parts of inner being with the individual. Like you say England is the heart.
Shri Mataji: I see. You see Kundalini is made out of Mother Earth itself. I mean the element used is the Mother Earth, can you imagine?
And the magnetic power of Mother Earth is used in a way that we can say, that it represents the Mother Earth, Kundalini within us. And that’s how the Earth is made also, is made of layers. The whole earth is made of layers, because one can understand, that when the part of the sun, which broke away from the sun, came down like a sari, you can say, like a thick (Someone coughs, muffling the word. Sounds like “SPONGE”), – because it was gas. And then it had to go round itself. So the layers were formed just like the Kundalini force comes down and coils up, in the same way Mother Earth was coiled up. And the centres that I’ve described to you that are here and there, like Europe as I said is the Void.
Is not actually based on the axis of the Mother Earth – should have been normally based – because there were a lots of give-and-take took place. Like the continent of Australia drifted down to the Mooladhara, and the line, if you draw from there to India, then goes round, goes round the earth and comes back to Himalayas. You might say that’s how it makes a Kundalini, but it does not. If you draw a line, it may not.
But I can tell you how in the body it makes a sense, still the body’s not – I mean still, thank God we are intact in one piece. Like our heart is where it should be, our nose is where it should be. Thank God. It may be, after sometime you might find a nose hanging from here. (laughter) And the way we are, I don’t know what will happen.

Now the Kundalini moves like this say, for example from the heart it starts, goes up like that. This is the three and a half coils. Now, if you can make a spiral and cut it half, three and a half, you get seven points. Three and a half, you take a spiral, from the heart it moves, one…two…three…and the half that ends up at Mooladhara. Now you cut it half; you get seven points. Do you follow the point? And that’s how one after another, these chakras are there within ourselves.
So the Kundalini itself, represented on the Mother Earth and which is readjusted now, adjusts itself within ourselves, in such a manner that it creates this pinda, this body, in its own form. But it’s still residual because it has not acted, it has not awakened. So it is still residual, but that seven chakras are such created by the same Kundalini as I told you.

But once upon a time, the Earth was placed that way and made like that, but then it changed. And, you cannot explain it without showing you a proper mark. That, you might say that “Mother, how is it that the… Australia is there and India is here and this and that?” But if you see a spiral going in two, like that, then it sprouts out, its own personality comes out at a point which looks odd, but it is in the spiral way, placed in us. Even this world is moving in a spiral, this universe is moving in a spiral, there’s an ascent. That’s how it is achieved, through an ascent. If it was just moving round and round, this earth, it would not have evolved. To go up, it goes round… but it is ascending.
And I’m sure science will find it out very soon, that the whole universe is moving in a spiral way. I don’t know how far is science gone, to find out what. Is there already findings like that?
Sahaja Yogi: They found eleven dimensions, Mother. They found eleven dimensions, Mother.
Shri Mataji: Eleven?
Sahaja Yogi: Dimensions, when you say there are sixty-four.
Shri Mataji: It’s unlimited. It’s unlimited. I’m talking of unlimited.

Now, there’s one question I’ll ask. Supposing they say, “What is unlimited and limited,” how will you explain? I mean supposing I’m not a Sahaj Yogi, I’m quite a clever person and ask you a question. [Lengthening silence.] There are Ph.D.s, M.A.D.s, let’s have [Shri Mataji laughs] some answer.

Sahaja Yogi: Mother, the unlimited is the Mother. The unlimited is the Mother.
Shri Mataji: No, but that is your statement.
French Sahaja Yogi: Mother, (ED Del: “the unlimited you can only do with your head.”) The limited you can do with your head, but the unlimited is with the vibrations?
No, no, but, how is it in this world, there is something unlimited or not? I mean the concept of unlimited must have come from somewhere.
[A baby make word-like noises to which Mother responds: “Ah, who’s there?] You have to say something concrete.

Another Sahaja Yogi: The unlimited is the comprehension that God is unlimited beyond the (norms?) of men.
Shri Mataji: What’s he saying?
Sahaja Yogi: We have subservient to God.
Shri Mataji: Can’t hear you. What he saying Gavin?
Gavin: He’s saying that God is the unlimited, Mother.
Shri Mataji: No, no, but that’s your statement. They don’t believe in God, supposing. See, mostly they don’t believe in anything. Then what will you say? you say that “God is unlimited,” – say “We don’t believe in God.” Alright. Then? This is your statement I’m not saying – say something that you have seen unlimited in this world – not me, apart from Me! Because you are Sahaj Yogis, now let’s see!
Sahaja Yogi: [softly] Infinity.
Another Sahaja Yogi: Mother, On the gross level, the energy within the human body is a closed–system, which can be exhausted, as we know through the play of right and left. Connection with –
Shri Mataji: No, no, but that’s what you say… because you have reached your subtle state. But those who are on the gross, can you tell them any example of unlimited?

Sahaja Yogi: The Universe, Mother.
Sahaja Yogini: Mother, the Spirit.
Shri Mataji: No, you can’t say universes, they have not seen it.
Sahaja Yogi: speaking over Shri Mataji: A life.
Shri Mataji: Something that you can see with your eyes.
Sahaja Yogi: Life, Shri Mataji. Life is not an entropic system.
Shri Mataji: That’s another…[Laughter] No, no, no, no, no, no!
It has to be very gross example. It has to be for gross people now let’s see.

Sahaja Yogini: Blue sky, Mother.
Shri Mataji: No, no, no.
Sahaja Yogi: A fountain.
Shri Mataji: No, no.
Sahaja Yogini: Usually we say the sand on the shore… The grains of sand on the shore.
Shri Mataji: No, no, it is limited. It is at a point limited. Something that is really unlimited you can see.
Sahaja Yogi: Infinity.
Another Sahaja Yogi: How?
Sahaja Yogi: Infinity.
Shri Mataji: How? [Laughter] You talk, now I’ll tell you.
Absolutely gross.

Sahaja Yogini: The nourishment of Mother Earth?
Shri Mataji: What’s she saying?
Sahaja Yogini: The nourishment of the Mother Earth, always giving?
Shri Mataji: What is she saying?
Other Sahaja Yogi: The nourishment of Mother Earth.
Shri Mataji: No, no, no, no.

Sahaja Yogi: Below the [body?], Mother.
Sahaja Yogini: Air.
Shri Mataji: You see something it is conceptual. Not conceptual actually, I’ll show you. You can see unlimited. Not me, alright? It’s very simple. Put two mirrors in front of each other and put one thing in between. You see unlimited images.
[Laughter and applause.]
One divided by three is unlimited. Adi Shakti divided by three becomes unlimited.
So many thing absolutely gross you can show them this is unlimited. So now there are two mirrors, one is God and His Power. And the image in between is the universe. So you get unlimited universes. Then you have God and His Power, you get any deity in between, you get unlimited deities in you all. Is a very simple thing you can show. At a very gross level, you can tell them there is something like unlimited. Alright?
Is all right for physics people, am I all right? [Laughter]. Like that. So such questions if they ask, you have to be prepared. For that, you must think about it. Sometimes you may not answer. Doesn’t matter. Think it about. Find out, “What does that mean?”
But the thing is that you must use the Mahamaya power, which you have seen clearly, to them by showing my photographs. Now how do you explain this? By showing them what happened in Bedford, or telling them what happened in so many cases, where suddenly you got this and this happened and that happened. How do you explain? That will stupefy their brain much more.
I think my time is over now. You get to take over. Now what time you are having lunch?
Sahaja Yogi: One o’clock, Mother.
Shri Mataji: That’s why I said no puja in the morning. [Laughter].
Sahaja Yogi: Yes, Mother.
Shri Mataji: Now you know why. But Gavin is a person who listens to me. That’s a good thing, I mean those who listen to me, it’s easier to deal with them. But those who don’t listen to you it’s very difficult, first, you have to convince them, on a gross level, every time. So, don’t decide for yourself, let me decide. Whatever I decide for you is for your good.
May God bless you!

So I can go now, you can have your seminar and discussions and whatever you want to have, on these two points specially because, one thing is you must find out for those who want to go, how you will be going. All of you should take a very active interest and tell them what you can do about it. Also, I think it would be good idea to tell them in short what we have decided in the trustees meetings, whatever we have decided about… we should tell them about it.
How are you doing there, well in this college?
Sahaja Yogi: I hope so, Mother, with your blessings.
Shri Mataji: Working out well?
Sahaja Yogi: Quite alright with your blessings.
Shri Mataji: I’ve told C.P. about you. Alright?
Gavin: Bolo Adi Shakti Mataji Shri Nirmala Devi ki
Sahaja Yogis: Jay!

H.H. Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi