Mother’s Day Puja, Talk on Children

University of Birmingham, Birmingham (England)


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Seminar, Mother’s Day Puja, Talk on Children. Birmingham, England. 1985. 21 April 1985.

Please be seated. Gavin has not come? Gavin is not there?

The ladies with the children also must sit down for the puja. They haven’t yet arrived? Someone must go and tell them.

Yogi: Somebody with a car please get up to the main point and tell people that they should arrive. Preferably a gentleman with the car.

Shri Mataji: What are they doing?

Yogini: We have to clear the rooms by twelve.

Yogi: Mother, we have just been told that we have to clear our rooms by twelve o’ clock, so this has caused little confusion.

Shri Mataji: Why?

Yogi: Because the authorities would like their rooms back by twelve o’clock.

Shri Mataji: Oh, I see. So then…

Yogi: Should they try to quickly clear their rooms as well?

Shri Mataji: Yes. But I will finish the puja quite early, about eleven thirty. They could have gone then. Because if you start late, it will be late again. In any case I have to finish the puja early, because I am going earlier.

Yogi: Can the many people who have cars actually help the people come back down to the hall… ?

Shri Mataji: Or they might be on their way. Are they all coming together? Just see if they are coming together. Come along fast, come along. Even the people with children should come here. Ask them to come down.

Yogini: Shall I telephone Mr C.P.?

Shri Mataji: Not necessary. We’ll do it from, hello we’ll do it from the station.

Yogini: Yes, Mother.

Mother: Then what about the follow-on? They’ll come down here. You can have the hall, I think. Some people should stay in the hall. All right, the rooms you can vacate, because you call the people here.

Yogi: […but they lock the rooms…]

Shri Mataji: Aha. You can give the rooms which (you have?).

Please be seated. All the children must sit here, quietly. Let’s see. Very nice girls, very nice, yes. Come along, all of you should sit down. Children should be there in the program. Who is there? All the little children should be here.

Today I want to talk to you about children’s because yesterday we talk about the mooladhara part. Now why we are not so collective as we should have been; Much more collective? There has been conditioning on us from very childhood in a western life if you see. We are shut in our houses; we don’t have relationship with others; we are kept extremely protected in childhood. I think the parents have the fear in this country that we lose our children, because they get lost after they start getting their doles [1]
most of the children’s leave their parents and go away. Parents are left high and dry they feel that our children’s will leave us at the slightest respect. So they teach them not to talk to anyone to be away from everyone and cuddle their own children , look after their own children and they can’t see the child talking to another lady.
They feel jealous and they feel that the child may be lost because they think they cannot give adequate love. If anybody can give love to that child they feel that child will be lost. And the child also becomes such an individualistic child that it takes liking to very particular type of person and then after some time that person starts overpowering that child and the parents loose the child. It’s a very sick society in that manner. As far as children’s are concerned it’s a very sick society. It doesn’t know how to bring up their children it’s just the opposite in India just the opposite. I think that’s one of the reasons why Indians become collective very fast. Is that in childhood when we are little children or people have children is regarded as bad manners to take your own child in the presence of others. Absolutely bad manners. Say now I have my daughter and when I went my in laws we couldn’t take the child in my lap except for the milk also which I was nursing the baby. So they had to say that now you better nurse, so I was there. I would never demand that give me the child, I will take away. Never.

Is regarded as bad manners and now I see why it was that. It was bad manners to take the child in the presence of others in your lap to say that this is my child. Was regarded as something crude and bad manner as if we are not from something good family that we don’t know how to behave before others. And even to say that this is my child was not permitted; would say that this is your child to introduce your child…

It’s something surprising, now I am realizing that why it was so in the society of ours. We are not supposed to say that this is my own child. We should go anywhere we should say that’s your child. Even the house we would not say this is my house to anyone…
Will you come to your house, please?

The whole you see the whole cultural background gives us that collectivity. Now I have told before also why peoples are so sex oriented, I mean they are sensitive to do touch of another person. Anybody who touches them they get funny feeling. The reason is other sensations are not developed within you. That is also because you always cuddle your own child. Child only knows the mother or the father. All the time child is with you and as a result of that what happens the child never feels the other sublime relationships with others. Anybody who is another is an identity which is something different and when you grow up then you suddenly touch somebody then you cannot feel those sublime things.

When you are innocent, when you are child; I mean we never slept with our parents. I mean it’s a very common thing in India. Now supposing if I am in the house my daughters will give their children’s to sleep with me or with my husband, with brothers with other if my brothers are there or their brothers are there then they would give their children’s to sleep with them and not with themselves.
The psychological reason was that perhaps they understood it’s a very traditional country so they understood it. But the psychological reason behind this was the child used to get to another man another woman at that sublime situation at that sublime consciousness when they are innocent. So the relationship of innocence is developed. Nobody feels anything funny if somebody touches you or does any.

This is the reason you see a man touches the little boy he gets funny sensation, the boy gets a funny sensation. Is absurd because you must believe in the principle of collectivity.
Now I have seen that the peoples cuddle their childrens too much in this country and that’s a very wrong thing to do all the time carry the child on your lap, carry the child on your …this thing . This is too much… If you overdo it you will find the same children will hate you. Because in the childhood they develop the sensation that they are overdoing the things you see and they cannot express it.
Allow the child to play as much as they like , take the child whenever it is necessary, let others take the child not you. We have such a big community sahajayogi’s here but what I find the mothers are carrying the child all the time or fathers are carrying the child. No. give it to other peoples.
Let the childrens be with other people sleep with other people enjoy others love and don’t have fears. They love you much more.
And that’s how I think we first we built in the a kind of a stigma a kind of a funny feeling that develop later on into this perverted relationships. But they feel to be with some another person is something well. All these things can be given to children’s in a very easy way if you try it in childhood.

Another is that I find in my husband’s office is that surprised that everybody is called by name like there is deputy of C.P. is called Tom even a driver will call him a Tom. But see we are very particular; especially my husband is very particular. He will even call his driver’s name by Mr. so they there not misbehave . The relationship must be established in childhood like I have seen peoples calling him Gumming. Little children’s calling him Gumming. We would never call like that or even if you see my grand children’s they will say Gumming uncle at the most. If it comes to more formal relationship they will say Mr. Brao but they will never call Gumming . That’s not done.

1Aunty, uncle a relationship has to be established. It’s not only your father and mother are important. But you snatch your children’s I have seen from others. You go on to hold on to your children and grab them all the time. That’s why they run away from you. Overdoing it. There is no need.

Children’s are very independent they can look after themselves they can manage themselves and just to keep them pleased you take them to shops, make them buy things, get things and then they get used to it. You want to satisfy them that way. No. You must know that child is very intelligent and you have to bend child’s mind according to your own understanding of collectivity. And if you do not do that they will become like just other children’s who are just mega bonds.

I think I have told you that once I was coming from Oxted and there were some children’s about 8-9 years of age not very big. They were of some public school had no discipline. They entered into my compartment. It was a first class compartment and they have some sharp things with them some knives, may be some razors and they started repockening all the seats for nothing at all and didn’t do anything to me of course and I was quite worried. I said why are you doing this? So they said shut up.
So I got up, went to another compartment and they said that there are 2 boys who are travelling with them. They were there smoking sitting down nicely on the other side. So I went and told them that these boys are doing like this. They came back and they slap them nicely, slap them hit them and they didn’t even cry nothing of the kind. And push them back into their places and then station came and station master was saying now what to do now?

You must learn to discipline your children from now. Why can’t they sit in the program quietly? What’s the problem with them? From the very beginning they must be made to feel the vibrations. They must be made to sit with other people because they find their parents are their own and rests are not. That’s how racialism also develops because they think the other people who are not fair are not our own.

All types of these scorpions like temperament or you can call as snake like temperament, secretive temperament they develops and when you start getting them to exclusive to yourselves . On the contrary if you allow them to be open talking to everyone opening their hearts to everyone.
Even the people who are grown up shudder from touching another’s child I have seen. Will ask them should I take the child? What’s the harm? I mean in India if you go to anybodies house they will just pick up the child. Now they say that it is protection of disease or all that. But on the contrary children develop more immunity. Overprotected children’s are very dangerously placed because they have no immunity for anything imagine in that country we have all kinds of parasites living, all kinds of parasites still we exist better because we have immunity to so many things and that’s how you people become very weak health wise.

Imagine I went to Australia we have 3-4 Indian boys there. They came to help me in the kitchen with the lifting all the big things here and there so I ask one of them that why not ask these boys to do something. He said they are only nice to look at mother, but they have no strength. They have no strength. I have seen that and it happens more in a country like England where is such a bad climate to keep your children inside. They don’t go out. You all the time shut your children. They become selfish they become very weak and very short cited. Open them out. Now you have a community. You have a trust for the community. But you don’t. Then one will just dominating person will come up and catch hold of your child, use that child blackmail you for the child and do all kinds of things.
But if you just allow the child to play with everyone just allow. Diseases will disappear, you will be surprised. Also supposing you have a problem even with a back agya if others are handling it disappears because somebody has better vibrations bhoots leave you. But if you just all the time hold, you are a person suffering from back agya yourself. You are holding child tightly so child has to suffer.
We actually send our children to other people in very childhood trusting them and they love the children. Because here people don’t believe that you can love the children. So here we have to trust others with our children and that’s the reason I think that children’s become so exclusive they stick on to you and they cannot go to anyone.
But you see in India when you go , I don’t know if you have visited any homes or not the children’s will be the first to receive there, they say alright sit down. Then they offer you something if somebody is not in the house. They will look after you. They will know everything about you what you said what you asked for what you wanted.. Everything… so sweetly you know..Everything on the record and they have names for every uncle every aunties and they remember all those things all their life.
I mate such children’s whom I have looked after in my childhood in their childhood I would say more. They remember I have told them, the stories I have told them and how I looked after them. Every little little thing they remember and it’s so sweet to know that they know all those things still.

One of them is now working in the world bank. She got big job in a world bank. She know and then she came down other day and just started crying like a baby in my lap.. you see. They said whats the matter she said “Auntiji, I remember those days you looked after” and so fond of me that she once went to a shop and she saw a saree; quite grown up; which I used to wear the same type of yellow colored saree and she went and bought that saree she said that’s my auntie’s saree. She said that’s my auntie’s saree .

Quite grown up. All these little little things children’s remember all the sublime things all the noble things all the things that are very pure. But you don’t expose them, you just overpower the children too much of it. And also then children’s try to attract your attention all the time, they get used to you, they will ask 10 questions, they will talk too much, they will say things and you will be tired.
I know that when I was coming by train I had a lady travelling with me she is Cline’s wife. What’s her name? She was travelling with me and her son and what thing she would talk with me because she has to tell him stories to him and this to him and she would not leave. I said you just neglect him just neglect for a while and the child is better. And the same advice I give to Barbara her son is very good he went to Warren when he was there, he went to every person he went and laughed everyone he went round around hall looked at everyone but in India children do that they are worried about everyone they will go and see the vibrations. This exclusiveness and overpowering really hate your mother and hate your father feeling you if they are very over possessive. This is possessiveness. And the fear that we lose the child. Actually you really lose if you have this kind of a fear and if you overpower your children.
That’s what I have seen that the children who would like to be in the program. No. All the ladies are standing out as a punishment. But why make them sit .They will be all right. They will sit quietly. They won’t make any noises. But this overpowering attention to your child and I have also heard that in the ashram the ladies who have children don’t do any work. They just don’t do any work. They are looking after their children’s. Finished. And rest of the work does somebody else.

To produce a child you don’t take much. There is nothing great that you have produced the child first of all. They are Sahajayogi’s and they are in my trust and not yours and don’t spoil them. No mother should sit with child in the house or in the rooms, whatever may be the case. Allow the child to play with others. Sit in the drawing room. But they will take the child, sit in the room and feed the child. They have only one work to look after the child finished. It’s like emotional blackmail I think. That you just take a child to your side and sit down there and say that I am looking after the child so the other one say ohh ! Its all right she is a mother …..

I have so many children’s here. This motherhood should not give you such a funny idea that you are so great that you should sit down and do nothing else. My family I had 11 brothers and sisters and my mother was president of congress in Nagpur of Madhya Pradesh. She went to jail 5 times and a very correct women she would not tolerate any nonsense from her children and that’s another thing that if the child does anything to someone. I have heard that children are very indiscipline, they hit others they pull their hair, they say all kinds of funny things and parents never correct them they just adore them and when children’s grow up they just kick out their parents. We have seen this happening.

Because they are realized souls they won’t like this kind of nonsense. So be careful about that. Yesterday I talked to you about mooladhara. Let the children have healthy, trustworthy mooladhara. Let them meet others, be friendly with other, play with everyone, go round with everywhere. Allow them. But otherwise they are very negligent about their children. What do they do? They don’t even massage their children, they don’t even clean their children, they don’t keep their clothes clean, they don’t give them bathes regularly, they don’t give them proper food to eat.

This is one point we have to see that our children’s should be made very collective and very strong in their mooladhara from very childhood and I have seen parents coming and telling me saying that we don’t know why? Why our child has left us like this? When he grows up he was all right in childhood. This is the reason. They get bored with you feel very frank. That’s the only answer. Suddenly you see my son left me suddenly why? I mean it was all right till yesterday then he must have been fade up now. Run away from this. So they must have their own friend. They must go round. It’s really comparatively if you see the children have wisdom of their own because parents are so overpowering they don’t allow children to grow in a proper way, to understand anybody else.

I just don’t understand what happened to us? Why are we going wrong about children so?
Now the another point which one have see is about ashram which I did not have said before but now I say we have to be responsible people. That is also there from the childhood if you don’t have sense of responsibility you can never develop it later. Like electricity bills goes up like hill. People never put off their lights. I mean there is a switch which is to be put off and also put on. It’s not only for putting on. Small things like gas, electricity once they are in ashram they don’t bother. It’s your ashram. Then is food. The amount of food that is thrown away is something surprise. No value for food!

No understanding how to organize because there is no Gruhalaxmi. There is no housewives quality because they are sitting with the child now. Not doing anything else. Supposing you had your own house you would be shopping, you would be cooking, you would be looking after your child you would be cleaning your house, cleaning the utensils, bring everything yourself. But in the ashram they think oh we have a baby so let’s look after them and sit down there. I would love to play with babies all the time. I have nothing to do with you. So can I do that?
Can I do that? I cannot!

In the same way we must understand we should not waste food. There are many peoples in this world who are starving. We have no business to waste food at all. I mean on this I will be surprised that even the richest of richest in India would not leave anything in the plate. Richest of richest. Gandhiji when in his ashram was there even the Maulana Azad, Jawaharlal Nehru had to clean their own plates. You see. So they should not take more and if they take more they should not leave anything in such a manner that others cannot eat. Waste of food waste of electricity waste of other energies without understanding anything it means money. That’s why you never have money. One should be proper organinsing what you are going to cook, what you are going to have, how much is going to be used, nothing should be wasted.

I have seen this tendency I have seen this tendency myself very common. There is no respect of food, no respect of food. That’s why children’s also don’t have any respect for food. Before you food is served you must sit with the idea that now you are going to have a food. It is a Yadnya. And that you have to eat that food with some prayer, bless that food. Thank god that you got the food. This is a lord’s prayer. And then the satisfaction comes in better and you get a sense no we should not waste our money or food like this.

There are so many other things one has to know about children that you must know about their vibrations. You should be alert about their vibrations. Try to find out what’s wrong with them? What do they do? Now for example if you find child is misbehaving. Don’t go on all the time within, call the child, make once the child sit down and talk to child that you shouldn’t do like this. When you are with mother pay attention to it. It is you who is going to mould these new children who have been given to you especially because you are sahajayogi’s and not to ruin their lives.

You know some children has become mad with this kind of a thing like Datta who was here and everybody makes see… she herself was so careless so careless that you can’t imagine about her carelessness when I heard about her carelessness and the filth with which she looked after the child. I was amazed how Linda could do that way and you should not be another Linda’s; to spoil that child’s health, mind everything. If you have a clean neat place and proper plate’s children will love eat to be there. But no mother should sit with the child in a room. That is law.

In the drawing room you can sit with your child. And in the room when child is sleeping is to be taken in otherwise keep the child in the drawing room. You will see the child will become happier because it is natural to be collective. It is natural for child to mix up with others to talk to others. It is natural. Innocence is like that. Innocence wants to know the whole world. That the time if you don’t allow the child to know then he becomes perverted. He has problems. So give them a better life better situation better education better discipline because you are equipped. Don’t give them what you had. This is real love, otherwise it is possessiveness.

I wanted to talk about this because yesterday I talked to you about mooladhara and I have been seeing, noticing what’s happening to your children and I find the amount of discipline they have is coming from you and how far you are disciplined and by doing this you play into their hands. They know that they can curb you the way you like. They know that you are depending on them. You cannot exist without them. They have this idea. So they don’t listen to you. But if they know that they will lose the love if you don’t behave, they will be all right. They are very intelligent. So you must play your cards all right and see that your children are brought to proper line of understanding because they are different children, special children given to you as a trust. They are not your children, they are my children. So too much of handling and hugging and this and that it’s not necessary.
I mean sometimes you break their bones the way you do it. It’s too much.

Try this on other’s children. Let’s not on your own children’s. Try to keep your children out and love other children. I don’t know what kind of psychology you people read. But this is the simple thing we must understand that we are sahajayogi’s and children had to be collective otherwise I have to again break my head with them for being collective. They should be naturally collective.

All right, Gumming, lets have the Puja.

I think today’s speech must be written down and send to all the centers. Is important. I find this all over in the westerns. If they have a child suddenly they become more than a emperor and the wife becomes more than an emperor herself, not only empress but more than an emperor. While I told you that king’s and queens never see their children’s at all. That’s another extreme.


[1] doles = the dole UK informal the money that the government gives to people who are unemployed Young people on (= receiving) the dole are often bored and frustrated.If I can’t find any work within a month, I’ll have to go on the dole.

H.H. Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi