Discussion on Progress in the West

Rome Ashram - Nirmala House, Rome (Italy)


Discussion on Progress in the West, Rome Ashram, Italy 1985 -05-17

How we are destroying ourselves, I think that is the ideal thing one can do. The real shock is this we should not worry about population or anything. I think you should all sit down and think about it and make a, this thing, and then you should give confessions and stories about someone Sahaj Yogi told me horrible story about his own father that when he got his confirmation and he was about 16 years of age you see. The father celebrated it, his confirmation and after that he called a prostitute to teach him all about just imagine.
If that is the situation, if the parents only try to..like these things. And they think they are liberated, there should be a really very sarcastic and any pungent attack on these people those who think they are liberated and this and that. It’s just a mental domination and the conscious mind has become so powerful with the west I tell you, one day they won’t be able to control it also, won’t be able to control their conscious mind. It will go beyond their consciousness; it may happen like that. You see, when ego becomes the most powerful thing then you cannot control it at all. {Shri mataji talking to a sahaj yogi}. They are living in another world I tell you still, have to make them understand that they are really going towards their destruction all these things are of no use and all that maybe, it may come into their heads. I think you all should write down certain subjects that we see if you can compile something together.
Shri Mataji talking to a Sahaj yogi. I wanted to talk to C.P sometimes little later about say 15 minutes just to tell him our phone number because he goes on worrying for nothing.
Sahaj yogi saying-you can have it in your room Shri Mataji.

Shri Mataji: Ellis and company came you see. And they measured the whole house and took lot of interests. They came, they have not forgotten the house. Just imagine, yeah they brought a party which wanted a huge big one big reception room and one of the bedrooms. Before that they shouldn’t come to Georgian house I must say. I don’t know why then they say these people are saying the house is small. But I think they are trying, they didn’t take measurements or anything. I think they have got a brochure with them perhaps.

{Sahaj yogi speaking something}.

Shri Mataji: Did you give them?

Shri Mataji: But I think their idea is to show the house first and, that’s what it is but in any case if you want to advertise once in times then you get lots of people but they are so unreliable and funny and that’s what it is.

Sahaj yogi: Did Ellice and company confirm the price?.

Shri Mataji: Yeah, they are serious people.

Sahaj Yogi: I think the price can be achieved.

Shri Mataji: They, I don’t know what price they have told him because that day they came and measured up everything. C.P will know about it. But they are very serious people, they took lot of interest in the house.

Sahaj Yogi: a very good firm.

Shri Mataji: I think that area they dominate and sort of. They are a very good firm better than this [unclear]Frank according to C.P. But I said maybe these people just want to show the house first and take the confirmation. Well, a house has lots its quite a lot of its individuality. No doubt about that.

Sahaj Yogi: Its an ordinary house Mother.

Shri Mataji: Its an ordinary house. I mean we can’t say it’s a absolutely ordinary but it is compared to what it was quite ordinary.

Sahaj Yogi: Its becoming more English.
Shri Mataji – (laughing) Yes, it does. It was very interesting. Alright, doesn’t matter whatever it is .So now this is the trip I am having in Europe. I don’t know about next year if I could come to Europe or not. But, this time, the trip will have in India. We have divided into two halves 21 days first trip and 21 days the second trip. Or it is a, I think 46 days or something. It comes to that. In case see you want to go for 21 days what is it you are struggling what is planned.

Sahaj Yogi: Mother, 3weeks and[unclear] the last 5 days is [unclear] the next week.

Shri Mataji: Alright

Sahaj Yogi: So, I think it is 30-37 days or something

Shri Mataji: So, for 37 days, one is for, for its 21 days and another is for 37 days.

Sahaj Yogi: If you get to the whole time its 37 days but if you get one trip either of them its 21.

Shri Mataji: So, how many days difference?
Sahaj Yogi – It is about 5 days [unclear]

Shri Mataji: So, altogether this is 27 days then, no 21 days.

Sahaj Yogi: 21 plus 21. So, it’s not 42 from beginning to end its something like 37

Shri Mataji: 37 no doubt. So for that, how much they charge they said?

Sahaj Yogi: So, just for 21 days its 400 dollars or if you get the whole trip is 600 dollars.

Shri Mataji: So, it is cheaper, cheaper to go for the whole. On the number of days is cheaper. How much cheaper it is? Normally it should be, say about what is the saving? Supposing you go one the same style then how much would you pay for 37 days?

Sahaj Yogi: Perhaps, 700 it would be

Shri Mataji: So, this is 600. I think it would be [unclear] one less that one because of the overall charges, maybe. It’s a 550 one can make it I think so. That’s what the letter Modi has written that overall if they do a bigger trip would be cheaper.

Sahaj Yogi: If they do a bigger trip Mother and if they don’t get a sea journey because they get run by road all away

Shri Mataji: They go round? So, what is the advantage they are having?

Sahaj Yogi: If you get 51 days then you have the sea trip between Bombay and Gwahati

Shri Mataji: Both of them will have. They will have sea trip. No, if you stay on, also one trip they will always get, two trips. If you stay on then you come by that trip and go by that trip, two trips you will get if you stay on. You see when you go by the first trip, first trip then you go via the ship. No, first trip you go by the road and come back. Yeah, that’s the point. That may be the reason they are reducing it. But, if you want you can do the trip , I mean ship trip can be done also not difficult. That may be the reason. That must be the reason. Its less. That’s what I was wondering why I did this. But how much did you pay, I don’t know last time for the trip. Who was with me I don’t know. You don’t know. Well, they can do it if they want to. They want to have a sea trip(Mother laughs) .That must be the reason they are reducing it. So, but still is quite cheaper 37 days, I think 550 if they are saying so for 37 days. Yeah, its very cheap. This time we took for 30 days 500 and this will be for 35-37 days 550 would be very cheap I think. And trip is going to be during the holidays, Christmas holidays. So, that will also give an advantage those who want to, can come during Christmas holidays. Because of the [unwield] in number I thought better to have in two groups. But really I don’t know this time it might, let’s see how much it works out. Last time it started growing and then it grew up and grew up and it grew up really quite a lot. So, in any case it should be circulated now so that last minute there should be no problem because now Warren is not here and I am very bad at all this bank business. So, best thing is everybody who want to go must decide and work it out because I wont be here ,I will come back in November and maybe I’ll go just before people go or maybe with you. Because we have to go what dates are the thing?
Shri Mataji saying smiling and asking somebody, ‘’haan what have you got? ‘’

Sahaj Yogi: Its something like the 21st of December it starts

Shri Mataji: 23rd ? Is that late? When do you have holidays here for Christmas?

Sahaj Yogi: Often the day day before couple of days before or something like that

Shri Mataji: Is it? So, keep it 23rd , Friday evening if it is yes. So, try to find people how many are coming for the first trip and then for the second trip and then for the whole trip, like that. This must also stop at a point must bring to a hault because it can (Shri Mataji laughing) and later on when we have our ashrams it will be easier, then we just go to the ashrams, sleep there go round the place, locally we arrange something, go round the place again come back to the ashram. So, we have 2-3 ashrams like that, that would be a better idea. So, maybe 2-3 years more we can do this but I think its too much for me. You must see the kind of fruits we have, they’re wonderful. Moreover, these Sikhs have really troubled us so much. Now no foreigners can stay there for more than 3 months. This is something horrid and they are putting more restrictions like I think Warren wrote to me that he has to go back, he cannot take a visa and all that but we are trying through Life Eternal Trust. Sikhs and all that, give a bandhan to this nonsense. But I don’t know why they have objected Sikhs, alright but why the foreigners as such. Foreigners gave them money and this and that.

Sahaj Yogi: Many Sikhs have foreign passports, Shri Mataji.

Shri Mataji: Apart from that you see this fellow, what’s his name was Yogi Bhajan. He converted many into Sikhism. Who is from Austria this time? So, what happened to the follow on meeting. Few people came new.

Sahaj Yogi: Few people came 15 or 20

Shri Mataji: [unclear] said 40. So, what is the reason?

Sahaj Yogi: We don’t know, actually we don’t know. Maybe because we had two days off in Munich but we don’t know.

Shri Mataji: It should have been just after the program according to you. I mean in two days they slip out. (Mother laughing). Then here they are going to have after 5 days. No, in Milan. They will forget after 5 days. Give a bandhan. Memories are so bad. Right-sided.

Sahaj Yogi: we got 5 new people

Shri Mataji: Really?

Sahaj Yogi: After the seminar about 15 or 20 came over here and at least 5 have come back here for weekly present.

Shri Mataji: Only?

Sahaj Yogi: Well, some are more from outside London. They stayed especially for the seminar.

Shri Mataji: Oh, I see. They were not from London. It’s very difficult, 5 people

Sahaj Yogi: Its good to get 5. They should come back.

Shri Mataji: smiling and saying Consolation prize.

Sahaj Yogi: Mother how you feel?

Shri Mataji: Arey(in hindi) what I feel.. See to me it is in a different line, I see it’s the heart of the universe. I see America as the Vishuddhi of the universe. Will have to do transplanting or something like that. I don’t know what to say if the heart is so weak what are we to do. But, I think it will work out, work out in a way. You see you have to put them to a challenge always. Supposing you start doing the work, oh she is not here but we have to go to India, this and Ashram there, this that then they will come. Now she is gone away we have to go. I think that some sort of an effort, effortlessly they cannot understand. They think we are on door, they can’t bear that I think. You have to make them do something. Like[somebody’s name] was telling me that in the Zain system of something people were and the fellow used to take a big stick and hit them hard on the backbone and people went there. So, all these love, compassion and comfort and all these I think they don’t like it. That’s all one can say otherwise I have no other explanation for this kind of behaviour. Imagine in India even in Bombay every time we have a program, its in hundreds people come. But how many programs have Bombay, hardly any. At the most 3 or 4 programs, last time we had 3 days continuously that’s all and once you came that was only for Sahaj Yogis, so 3 days only in Bombay in the whole year. Madras 2 days, Calcutta 2 days, Delhi I think we had program for 5 days that’s all, in the villages its for a day or two, that’s all. Try to think what to do we this I mean the pace is very slow still I must say. For example, that day how many people came?

Sahaj Yogi: 500-600

Shri Mataji: At least, out of which 5. It’s too much. I know that. Hampstead we always get a big crowd.

Sahaj Yogi: Lot of people come back just for you lecture Mataji. I mean there were people there who being Sahaj Yogis long time back. He was there, went to India just came back for the program.

Shri Mataji: Really?

Sahaj Yogi: Richard Gales, his wife was there Clare.

Shri Mataji: I mean, I think they repeat always when I am lecturing.

Sahaj Yogi: Yes, when you are there Mother they come.

Shri Mataji: what is this nonsense, I just don’t understand these people. For them it’s an entertainment or what.

Sahaj Yogi: I think that’s the end where they are going to get something. Mother, I suggested a few weeks ago if we had celebrities who were interested that we probably, its just a human nature, trail of a human nature.

Shri Mataji: First you see we, if celebrities is needed to get the crowds, we get the crowds alright but to stick on what to do.

Sahaj Yogi: One suggestion we had Mother which we didn’t implement was at the seminar everybody should have somebody who is not their guru exactly but their guardian angel ,that this person has to make sure that they know when the next things are.

Shri Mataji: But maybe some may not like this idea. See, some may like, some may not. But this celebrities also, what celebrities. They will stick on to the celebrity, the celebrity might be of the lowest standard.

Sahaj Yogi: Mother, I believe, we believe that Naraka is in England. He was speaking in Isle of Wight 2 days ago.

Shri Mataji: who was speaking? Narakasura?

Sahaj Yogi: They said what should we do?

Shri Mataji: They are there in Isle of Wight, you see. When is he going to speak?

Sahaj Yogi: That night, that same night

Shri Mataji: When I was speaking here. I don’t think he has much chances now. He has exhausted everybody’s money now. I don’t know why he is there. He has lots of money, he can publicize and all but doesn’t work out.

Sahaj Yogi: Mother, [unclear]TM’s success was based on very large who sold to the business communities the techniques for release of stress, business stress, quality of mind. I am sure to suggest to we something similar. Perhaps if we concentrate on business communities Mother.

Shri Mataji: Try, try everything. I am not saying no to anything. But Sahaja Yoga is something you know its much deeper. I mean the thing is now say for example we say you come here for your stress and this, alright. Up to the point it is alright but to stick on you have to stick on to me. That’s the big problem.

Sahaj Yogi: If we can get people into the collective whatever their mottos were coming on the first place then they blossom is getting them to stick for that period of time that it takes for them to become Sahaj Yogis really. Some people take longer than hours some spontaneously become Sahaj Yogis. Others need a period of time to fit into. It’s getting them to stick for that period.

Shri Mataji: Like, to move like these people you see on the business line is to be to have an enterprise otherwise you can’t do it. You see how do they do it. For example, first they say that, say seminar for the reduction of your problems or whatever it is. They say that, send these things to all the business people, send people to talk to them, we are arranging a program somewhere then book a big hotel somewhere then you get the people. It’s a business proposition, you have to put in a money for that you get them, they have to pay for it, they come there and then will give them realisation and remove their. But even with that how far will they be I don’t know because you have to tell another thing there, done another thing from one to another you have to suggest [falsehood]one after another you see. I mean at least you cannot tell them the truth. So, at what point you break in, it comes to that. But you can try we are trying everything and what I am saying try business try everything, there’s no harm in trying. You tried the bishops, you tried every sort of things, but is a common thing in all the cities even in India all these big big johnnies come in, they drop out and some of them do stick is no doubt, some of them do stick in. Like in Poona we have lots of people who are business people who are in Sahaja Yoga, Bombay, Delhi we have lots of people who are in business who are in Sahaja Yoga. There the whole strata is quite good I should say, but here the people are so much used to be handled by advertising this that that you have to really put in money for all that and work it out in a big way, then maybe again you might find one and a half person coming. You see our thing is that we have to get human beings not necessarily English, not necessarily Italians, not necessarily Indians because what to do now. We want to propagate for their good but if they don’t want to come how can we want. Now is America they sent how much money we spent you have no idea unlimited, this now in our lifetime you cannot spend so much money as we spent in here. There whatever they said PRO alright this thing that thing, I agree to everything whatever they said and there we spent money so much money that I really tell you we can never spent that much money. We did everything and how many we get 4 Sahaja Yogis came out of them 3 ran away and 1 was Richard who was saying I am surviving, everybody was enjoying there and he was surviving in India. England we have done complete criss cross this way they have had experiences, newspaper is there everything. Australia is the only place where you can say definitely[unclear] and another is Italy, another is Austria is coming around. But I mean still you wouldn’t say that it is something like India isn’t. What do you say the Austrians?
Sahaja Yogi- We have to improve.

Shri Mataji: I mean, imagine for my lecture they, always the halls are very full, always, same in Munich. Austria, how many people were there?
Sahaja Yogi- 4-500 each

Shri Mataji: They are very fond of lectures, that’s all. Its a serious matter I tell you. They just want to listen to me anywhere you go. Haan they told me in Munich they advertised, not one person came for their program. As soon as I went there the whole hall was filled there were so many people. They would just want you see to listen to me that’s all finished. We can do one more thing, this is the only little idea I have which I do know that we can also sell my tapes to them. We can say that Shri Mataji’s tapes are available so they may play it in the car or something all the time.
Sahaja Yogi- Mother, there was an idea one time that you would going to publish the advert in paper.

Shri Mataji: That will be done very soon. There’s another thing that before this Guru Puja on the Friday or Friday we are having the opening ceremony of advent written in French and Dr Nagendra Singh is going to inaugurate it so there’s no problem on that. Nor the Sahaja Yogis will be there because of the Guru Puja they should all arrive the program will be at about 8 o’clock, 8 o’clock in the evening I think so that everybody will be able to there its on Friday evening. So, will have this thing fixed there and Dr Nagendra Singh is coming and I will do the[unclear]some big people to come around and everything and its in French, the book can be read. But once this is done same thing can be repeated in English language we can do it in say, America the opening ceremony wherever you say so because the book can be translated, this some company which is anxious to translate it and to print it publishing company. We don’t have to spend any money on that so such a book can be done because [regards] second book which is in French is very much different from the one they advertised. So, he was saying that the company will be willing to do it. If they agree if they publish it then we will have it in English and it will be much cheaper book. Yes, and the publisher will be[unclear] so that’s how one way we can do it. But I think it will be a better idea that the people who are fond of my lectures also we can say that this lectures are available on a tape or we can make some little little books. Can’t we? They would like to go and read the books. No, my lectures you see, say they are in Hindi, Marathi this they translate it, say we take different different lectures, public lectures and print books you see booklets. It can be sold to them which they can read. Say 200 people came should give them one one lecture each. They can read it so they can just form a library or something with these lectures. This could be done because they are of that type they are fond of lectures they are fond of this they are not interested in realisation as such. They think there is an involvement or commitment. I mean one fellow said he doesn’t want to marry because he doesn’t want to have commitment. Then I said why not I mean you want to have everything else but the commitment. Because the law is so binding here that’s the reason that one doesn’t know some times you know I also feel sometimes that I maybe arrested for nothing at all so big laws so much in regulations you see. Like, you can’t make a noise at after this time, you can’t do this after this time. I mean one would go mad, all funny funny laws there are and that’s why I think the people think this commitment even going to Sahaja yoga they might be tomorrow called people going to a cult or something. Burning, is he burning on his feet? Alright, so like that we should think it over or if you want that my lectures could be published in small booklets or could be the tapes we can sell as tapes to them something could be done. It’s very you see its the quality is not there, quality is not there you see. As they say things that are to be made out of gold can be only made out of gold you cannot use brass for that, that’s the point is. Quality has to be there, this is the big problem. Quality is not yet ready. I don’t blame them because they have been too simple everybody has befooled them first the Pope came he befooled. Richard told me that it was said that husband wife relation is a sin in Holland. So now they said go to hell your sin. Mataji laughing. I mean absurd thing, how can you read at that where did Christ said such thing. What makes them think that this is the sin because he attended a wedding? He certified it in that little short time of three and a half years he attended a wedding now what more do you want a sanction for the wedding. So, if you start like this say husband and wife is a sin but then why do you have these priests there and how did they how were they born out of what sin? Absurd ideas you see and how did you accept such idea for centuries. Just think of it, how could you I mean even a farmer in India would say alright you don’t tell me you can tell the bullock not me, I am not going to listen to you. How could you I mean I just don’t know what made you listen to all this nonsense. Then [Fright] comes tells you something say everybody like he see blindfolded all following. Let [Fright] try something in India, cannot people will say this madcap from where has he come put him in jail that’s what it is. I mean that’s why I don’t understand you are so simple nobody can believe that this things are happening in England or in Italy and these places. Nobody will believe that people are that simple very very simple people absolutely simple people, simple term is the word in English language I think even to imagine to believe that marriage is a sin. Everybody thinking I am a sinner{Mataji laughing} just think of it. Richard very seriously told me from Holland you know I was really amazed at him when he told me, really? I said. Yes, everyone all the Catholics they believed in it for centuries and what Martin Luther did was even worse. They have become nothing but there Agnya that’s all. Very good people, I mean a rustic people have much more sense I tell you. They would never have believed you anyone like that. [unclear]. Imagine I told C.P he said I can’t believe it how can it be. I said this is the basics of[unclear]. How can that be? Even now he is such a brilliant man from India, he said don’t tell me all. I said now you ask anyone you won’t believe; he can’t believe it. One day he came very shocked I said why he said do you know this people have no bone in the tongue, that’s something we say there’s no bone in the tongue is what you know they were saying that Christ was homosexual, can you imagine to say such a thing. How can they say such a thing that also another, anybody tells them anything is done. People are just you know have no individuality at all I think. Anything shown on the television is good, now health food. Health food is meant for the animals not for human beings, even I can’t take that health food of yours, I will be sitting all the time in the bathroom if I take them, so unhealthy. Can you imagine the in Switzerland they have gone so far as to eat cottonseed which give to buffaloes only not even to cows. There’s limit to things that people have befooled. I really tell you if you tell somebody to Indian that they eat cottonseed, I don’t know how it can be. Cottonseed and that too even we give it to the buffaloes we soak it overnight, this is just seeds you will get kidney troubles, you will get diarrhoeas anything. I mean imagine cotton seeds to eat but why you have everything to eat and even, even if we are dying we will not eat cottonseed, this is too much. And in America the ice cream they make is made out of clay. Do not know this, absolute clay. It goes in the body and comes out the same way nothing is absorbed, its clay its plain simple clay. Mataji laughing. You don’t know that? In America the ice cream, I never eat in America, anywhere else is alright, just simple clay, that’s why it is so specially soft, is purified clay you take it. You didn’t know, oh I see. Mataji laughing and saying just simple people I tell you. I am surprised you didn’t know this.

Sahaja Yogi: they don’t write it on the packet.

Shri Mataji: No, no but I know it through some secret method. No, no what happened this Chandu Bhai Zaveri we went to America together and somehow the ice cream I saw even you take it, I said I also saw little I felt funny about it. So, he said Mataji I don’t think you will eat this, I said I think so but I don’t like it as it is I don’t like sweet. So, he said do you know its made out of clay, I said really so I felt it I said yes it’s clay. So, I said but why they said its very simple, its very nice they mix all these things in the clay and it forms this ice cream. I said how do you know? He said my friend has got a factory. Mataji laughing and saying Indian? So, I said only the Indian must be doing that. No, no he has learnt it from some Americans how to make ice creams. So, what will you do then, that’s the situation. People are very simple, sometimes I start wondering at myself I hope you are not following me because I am very clever. Its really like that, see the way you are so simple, its really. Now think of even that Mahesh yogi of[unclear] don’t you feel like laughing at the whole thing. How you people believed him, what is so sad? Also just think I mean what it was.

Sahaja Yogi: Circus.

Shri Mataji: Tremendous. And then he is such a rakshas who just didn’t make a circus out of you but in the end made something so horrid I mean think of it. Its horrifying it is. I mean ends up in very painful feeling. To look at it is like a joke but its very serious. I think it gives you simplicity right handed right sidedness gives you simple nature. See left sided is very clever he goes inside knows how to manage things and all that, the right side is simple man you see can be fooling. I don’t know how many people like this were going to come to befool. You had Drasputin and all these people, you had Hitler now what more do you want Mussolini for Italians. And then they killed him hanged him upside down just think of it. I mean just think of it. I mean Mussolini I still don’t never understood him because Hitler said he is a special race Germans but what about Italians. According to him Italians were also special race. No, no what did they say in their compromise

Sahaj Yogi: They could Spare the world

Shri Mataji: Spare the Italians?

Sahaj Yogi: No, the world. Conquer the world and spare it.

Shri Mataji: But you see what was the need for Italians to join them because Italians are no way Germans. If it’s a question of race only isn’t it then you would never fit into that I mean you would be the last like Indians.

Sahaj Yogi: Its inferiority complex which led Mussolini to get all the bothers from Hitler.

Shri Mataji: From Hitler? How? That he felt that he was inferior, and he must accept his domination.

Sahaj Yogi: Yes, in a way it was like that. He wanted to become stronger like Hitler and he taught his mind and that was the way

Shri Mataji: That’s also another stupid idea because you see Hitler started on a principle of race and how would he make a person who is an Italian anyway near him because the whole fundamentals were that the race, the once who were not Germans were all finished to be finished and you people are not at all near Germans the faces are different everything different, even they are more like Indians I mean I would say. Italians have their features more like Indians so he would never accepted what do you think of English, are they anywhere near Germans or not?

Sahaj Yogi: very closer

Shri Mataji: Very near they are. You are Anglo- Saxon and they are only Saxons. Are they or something? No, but till they are not seriously

Sahaj Yogi: Basically, I mean the Germans are quite similar

Shri Mataji: Similar? And the Finland people?

Sahaj Yogi: They are quite different. They’re Aryans. Pure Aryans

Shri Mataji: Aryans? Aryans are up to India. I see. So, he would have spared the England then he should have spared

Sahaj Yogi: He wanted the English as an ally against Russians that was which was his plans which went wrong.

Shri Mataji: I didn’t know because see actually the history is also very funny about Aryans that they say that the Aryans actually came from India went there and then came back and went there and came back like that because Shri Rama was called as Aryan, this is 8000 years back and his two children went to Slovak countries and went to China, so they could not have been Aryans or they could have been Aryans because they were children of Rama. So, how can you explain these things who is Aryan who is not Aryan and according to some books I have read that the people who came from the north side were called Rakshasas and those who came from the north west side were called as Pischasas. Books of Garu Puranas or these Puranas.

Sahaj Yogi: People who invaded Italy were Gods of Barbarians

Shri Mataji: Like that, like that. So, they call them see three things for the those people who came to India. Firstly, the people who were from the North maybe Slovak or maybe you people I don’t know whatever it is Northside, I mean so called Aryans were called as Rakshasas, those who came from Northwest must be from Tashkent and all that might be the north- west maybe Afridis and these people from Baluchistan ,Afghanistan were called as Pischasas and all the rest were called as Maleychhayas. So, none of them were respected as anything near so called Aryans you see and the rest were Aryans so how do you separate.

Sahaj Yogi: Hitler actually worshipped blonde hair

Shri Mataji: They have blond hair. Cannot be because if you believe in Greeks who were Aryans definitely they don’t have blonde they are black head. You see how can it be and the blonds were called in that’s the Rakshasas you see blondes and the reddish were the Pischachas. That’s the trouble, if you read the Puranas they have described like that, that so many Rakshasas came and so many these things came, Malekshasas came and Malekshasas are the people who must be Chinese and this and that sort of people all other[unclear]. So, three categories. Now if you say the blond then what are Greeks. Greeks are definitely Aryans or not.

Sahaj Yogi: Not according to Hitler

Shri Mataji: No? Well Hitler didn’t have a nose of a Aryan. It’s a myth I tell you it’s a myth because if you have to put an Aryan face Greeks are nearest, see without the any depression here is the steep nose they had. So, that’s what and see then what happened that in India we would not call Greek as Aryans, the description of Aryans is very different. I mean it doesn’t match with the descriptions we hear about. So, I just don’t understand because the description that you have in the Puranas should be taken somewhere near I mean should be considered then according to that none of you none of the people who outside India are Aryans. Only the people who belong to the North India were Aryans according to the Purana. Its worth reading these books to see so we live under myths you see but definitely blonde hair was regarded as Rakshasas this is definite blonde and( Mataji asking in Hindi- What is Bhura called in hindi?) Blonde, bhura is blonde and the another is the one the red reddish what were Pischachas is absolutely written down. But Hitler had black hair, he had blonde? Then what makes him think that blonde hair were the Aryans.

Sahaj Yogi: It probably may have the inferiority complex. Actually Hitler is supposed to be half Jewish Shri Mataji. His name was supposed to be [Shukar] Guru he is half Jewish. His father was Jew, wasn’t he?

Shri Mataji: Then imagine to listen to such a man like that whose father is not even known I mean it is too much

Sahaj Yogi: He is illegitimate wasn’t he?

Shri Mataji: Even that illegitimate, is it? Everything? All the qualities were in Hitler and then to listen to him I mean this is too much why did you listen to him? This is the point I am coming to.

Sahaj Yogi: No one knows who his father was, really this is also the controversies rounding his father and his mother.

Shri Mataji: His mother also. I mean what are the bonafide. To listen to someone there should be some bonafidees, see the way you people have accepted as if he was from some Royal family or what. Very, very simple people. What must be wrong there to listen to such people if you can find out that wrong then we can bring people to Sahaja Yoga. Basically there is something wrong in the brain how can we listen to these nonsensical people, what makes you think that way.

Sahaj Yogi: It’s said Mother that the Germans particularly respond to this, this oratory and they liked the disciplined and that’s was what there I think that’s probably why Hitler’s oratory [unclear] them such a lot

Shri Mataji: Why I don’t find that is the character. No, there is something wrong. I think there’s a kind of a domination people like. People like to depend on others and they like domination, they like that others should dominate them that they should not have any responsibility perhaps. Yeah, if they leave it to someone, but then why leave it to person like that you see who has no father, mother. I mean even if you have do it this I still don’t understand if I analyse it. Indira Gandhi was a widow so many people had objection how can a widow rule us, not auspicious. Imagine to that extent they used to go and this person has no father no mother, I just don’t understand.

Sahaj Yogi: He used domination. He suppressed people in[unclear] threats. Actually he was possessed.

Shri Mataji: But you people are so simple to accept his domination in not only Hitler otherwise also see this Pope anything I just don’t understand how people go on.

Sahaj Yogi: Its fear Mother. It’s a herd mentality

Shri Mataji: Maybe, the herd mentality, maybe that I think so we can just come to something where we should understand why it was so

Sahaj Yogi: Human beings don’t want to be here[unclear]. They want to be animals Shri Mataji like sheep follow the leaders.

Shri Mataji: But at least choose a proper leader. What I am saying there should be some sublimation some higher qualities something like in India if you see a leader every leader was something great.

Sahaj Yogi: Shri Mataji, if you watch sheep crossing the road they don’t have a leader the first sheep that crosses he is the leader and everyone follows like that is quite interesting. In the case of Rome, the catholic church the layers of different fears of a priest certainly in England.

Shri Mataji: So, they clubbed together.

Sahaj Yogi: But that’s why the priest, they are frightened of the priest.

Shri Mataji: That’s how the groups formed. You see in India they could not organise religion, they could not organise a religion they could not.

Sahaj Yogi: What it was like Shri Mataji allowed a pope was the Roman empire because the Emperor allied it to one Bishop and there was a mutual support society the Bishops supported the Emperor, the Emperor supported the Bishops and that Bishop became Pope they support politics and in India we never had that sort of interference.

Shri Mataji:No, we had once see like a say, Ashoka. Ashoka supported Buddha very much and Buddhism spread no doubt, but it could not be organised, did spread because of that but it could never be organised. This is what I fail to understand that acceptance of this for centuries maybe the fear as you say.

Sahaj Yogi: See even Kings were in favour of Popes in England. [unclear] for which one of the emperors kneel in the snow for three days till the Pope forgave him which one was that the Canossa. He would know. Henry isn’t it? Henry Barbarossa. One emperor Shri Mataji of Austria had a fight with the Pope and he had to kneel for three days in the snow outside the Pope’s camp for the Pope to forgive him

Shri Mataji: Now just explain to me this. You such nice people you know I mean its so nice that if somebody says that you go to hell you should say you go to hell finish I mean nobody should accept such a thing that you go to hell you go to hell. Just can’t understand. I must say this fear has gone too deep but something maybe the climate might be the climate is you have to fight the nature too much so that’s why the fear is there perhaps that’s the only explanation.

Sahaj Yogi: I think that’s it Mother actually.

Shri Mataji: Climate must be.

Sahaj Yogi: But the climate in Italy is also there. In England we poor to be very poor in England over the last few centuries being the cold rain.

Shri Mataji: Must be this is the reason I think I analyse in this way that a person who is who has to fight life so much becomes fearful and then they take advantage.

Sahaj Yogi: Even now if you are not [unclear] to be old in England, not to have some money you stay locked in a little room with smells, damps and cold. Horrible can’t imagine. People live with that fear.

Shri Mataji: I like in India you can live under the tree you see no fight.

Sahaj Yogi: Mother it used to be the work hours in England depends in times the work hours were if you fell on bad times you went into work hours[unclear] work in 18-20 hours a day.

Shri Mataji: O certain cruelties I can’t like slavery we never had slavery in our country never we never had slaves we have servants but nobody is forced to stay and slavery we have never known somebody with never never. Sad thing this climate is the worse, climate has to be changed. They can see some light now. Mataji saying in Hindi- It was a strong catch, now all gone. All left- sided that’s why I was trying to neutralize it. The fear comes from left-side so the most were the dominated people and few were dominating this is the reason. Most were the people who were dominated and few were dominating and out of fear, they created fear.

Sahaj Yogi: Should we give all of them Vitamin C?

Shri Mataji: He is saying we should give Vitamin C to all of them. I’ll have one in any case. Tomorrow you all buy some Vitamin C lets see. I think the now one if possible

Sahaj Yogi: Then we go and and get some now not a problem
Shri Mataji saying in Hindi – Not today, get it tomorrow. See, I personally think that it is the climate which made you like that first of all, that is Vitamin C. Alright. So now Sahaj Yogis should have no fear nobody is going to dominate let’s come out. No fear of any kind. Alright that is first theory you have achieved this much today. No fear of anyone in this world even of God because he loves you. One should not work anything because you are afraid of me, I hate that idea, no because I love you very much no fear of any kind.

Sahaj Yogi: Bolo bolo ,Adishakti Mataji Shri Nirmala Devi ki Jai, ki Jai, ki Jai.

Shri Mataji: That’s it this will work out, this will work out. Haan this is going to work out.

Sahaj Yogi: Its good stuff Shri Mataji (everyone laughing). It really cleans out left side very much.

Shri Mataji: Now, apart from that the fear in the mind creates left side. So, no fear of any kind nobody can touch you no law can catch you, you cannot get any blots in your life forget it, no fear of any kind. God is with you. I sing that song ‘’Bhaykay Taya’’ you know that, that song is representing that and I don’t know why I love that song very much, now I know, now better, vibrations tremendous, I worked it out throughout. Enjoy yourself, enjoy. Mataji saying in Hindi- ‘’started, ran away’’. No fear of any kind, no fear at all, alright? So, good night. Mataji saying in Hindi-‘’From there will call C.P’’. Tomorrow morning we have to get up at 4.