A very ancient traditional understanding about the spirit

School for the Humanities, New York City (United States)

1985-06-03 A Very Ancient Traditional Understanding About The Spirit, New York City USA DP-RAW, 34'
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Public Program Day 1, 1985-06-03, New York City

I bow to all seekers of truth.  But when we are seeking the truth we have to understand that truth is to be known through our accent and through our awareness that is our central nervous system.  Not through mental projections.  For example what just now has been described to you is the knowledge of the roots.  The west has developed and developed because of extroversion like a tree. It has reached its climax now.  But it must find out its roots.  If the tree is not sustained and nourished by the roots it is quite possible that it will topple down in no time.  So we have to learn I think from India so much about the tree.  But perhaps you have to learn something from us about the roots.

When we are developing outside too much the biggest problem I face is that people take easily to something that is new.  They are charmed by anything that is out of the way and something new.  But in Sahaja yoga when you see it clearly you will understand that it is not a today’s thought.  It is not a 100 year thought but it’s a very ancient traditional understanding about the spirit.  While in west people get very much enamored by things which are absolutely new, for example hundred years back.  It’s very surprising how they do not see something beyond and they want to try everything that is new which is not traditional.  For a country like India 100 years is yesterday.  That you can understand.  So if you have to understand anything about spiritual tradition of India you have to go far back and you will be amazed that gradually everything evolved and whatever came in its way like Tantrism and all that was thrown away.  Then again it came up and revived and again it came up.  But about a hundred years back we had horrible people coming down who have introduced absolutely ideas of no value to your ascent but may be for your decent.

Like the other day I went to Pune.  There were some western educated Indians and their age must be about 40 years to 50 years.  Not very old and I found that they were all suffering from horrible diseases.  From diseases like high blood pressure to paralysis, kidney trouble, liver trouble, cirrhosis, all kinds of diseases they had.  And when I asked them, “How did you develop these diseases?”

They said, “We had a guru and he told us a path by which we went and we go into this trouble.

I said, “What was the path?  What did he tell?”

He said, “Have you heard about Shaktipat?”

I said, “I’ve never heard.  Where did you read it?  Where is it written?  Nowhere in the tradition it is written, no book, nowhere.”

“No, there was one book 70 year old back.”

Just imagine 70 years, what is 70 years.  I am 63 so what is 70 years.  One gentleman wrote a book, his name was Vishnutheerth.  I got the book and I was amazed at that.  All that was written was written was something out of the blue.  Arunopaaye, Tarunopaaye, some words which are not even Sanskrit words.  And this word shaktipat was there.  And it was written that when sometimes you get this Shaktipat people start jumping like frogs.  And with all the brain intact people accepted such absurd statements.  That you just take out your clothes, you start dancing, you start jumping, you behave like a frog.  Are we going to become like frogs?  Use your brains.  Are we going to take out our clothes like primitive people?  What are we going to do?  What are we supposed to get?  This evolution upto human level is alright.  What is beyond that? What is said?  In any book whatsoever take it Bible, or go to Kuran, or go to any book, Zen, go to Buddhist, books of Dhamapad, or you go to any other Shastras, like Vedas, they have talked of Kundalini alright.

Upto the time of Kabira which was hardly 1600 years, upto the time of Gyaneshwara was hardly 1200 years, nobody said these things about kundalini that it makes you jump like a frog, or it burns you off, or it gives you blisters.  No one has said that.  But people believed into these things blindfolded because perhaps they didn’t know they were naive.  And it was something new that the Indians believed into.  They thought its coming…because that book was translated in English language.  And when it comes from England then more acceptable to westernized Indians than it is from India and most done traditional the whole thing was.  But as a result they were all sick people.  Very very sick.  And the guru has died now but made a big money, very big money himself.

Nowhere in the books is written that a guru takes money or lives on the earnings of the disciple, nowhere.  And if he does that it is regarded and a person who is not a guru who is a devil.  Any book you open there is a description, Guru Nanaka has described these gurus so elaborately that we cannot have any doubts about these people who are giving you such new funny ideas.  All kinds of ideas are working out in the west.  I am amazed how people have accepted that.

The traditional idea is the same as told by Christ to Nicadamus.  He said that, “You are to be born again to understand God.”  As Shri Krishna has said that, “You have to be the spirit.  Otherwise you will not know what God is.  You have to be the spirit.”

Buddha went to this limit that he said, “Don’t talk of God.  Don’t talk of anything, just talk of self-realization.  Just get to your spirit.”  That’s what he wanted to delimit human beings who just become so ego oriented that they start thinking that they are Gods and things like that.

And Zen Vidhitama who started the Zen system, went even further or a lower than that.  He said, “No, don’t talk even about the spirit.  Just talk about thoughtless awareness.”  That’s the first step.  Let us get it.  All Zen expressions in art, in garden, in anything they have is to create that state within us so that we become thoughtlessly aware.  It is not thoughtlessness, but it is thoughtlessly aware, that is when one thought rises it falls of and another though rises and it falls off.  We live on the cusp of the future and the past.  But to be in the present we have to be in the centre.  For that kundalini awakening is the solution.

Holy Ghost now!  No one knows what is Holy Ghost.  They make a dove because the dove must have brought the olive branch to show the peace.  So they must have used that symbol.  Alright, but nothing more than that nobody knows what is a Holy Ghost.  Even the Arch bishop of Canterbury doesn’t know.  Yes he was asked and I saw it with my own eyes.  I could not have believed it.  On the television he was asked, “What do you think about the Holy Ghost?”  He says I am Agnostic.  So the person who is the interviewer is a well known person.  He asks him, “Then what are you doing here?”  He said, “I am doing my job as you are doing your job.”  So he was quite happy.  He said, “Yes, yes, I am also doing my job and you are also doing your job.”

Now the problem is the way the organized religion they really try to bolt Christ into churches.  This is the biggest problem of all such religions which are organized ultimately they all end up as fanatics or something like charismatic movement where people start becoming like possessed or seventh day Adventist sort of people or what you call the other ones are Pentecostalists and all that sort.  Rastafarians, all sorts, these are not anywhere near Christ.  So what we get is a branching off from religion.  Is a branch, is a kind of a sect we can call it and these sects then go on dividing and dividing and ultimately end up into cults.  So the sects become cults or may be that anti-religion things start as cults and anti-culture thing starts as cults.  So actual happening that is the self-realization is just forgotten.

Even there are people who say that we are self-realization people.  And what do they do?  They cut the tongue and say put it back here.  Why because it is said that when the kundalini rises there’s a khechari that take place.  The tongue is pulled back.  But when the kundalini rises then.  It’s like when the car moves the wheels will move…but before that if you start moving the wheels will the car move.  Will it move?  And this kundalini awakening is a spontaneous happening.  Is done by living force within us?  How did we become human beings?  What did we do about it?  It all happens spontaneous.  How much did we pay?  To whom did we pay to become human beings?  Which guru did that?  No one.  So the kundalini awakening has to be a spontaneous happening.  But as in evolutionary process one fish came out then few fishes came out and were followed by shoals of fishes.  In the same way one person has to do it.  That’s different point but that you can pay for it is absurd and irrelevant thing because when you have to sow a seed, the seed has a power to germinate and the mother earth power to nourish it.  That’s how it works out.  Spontaneously you don’t pay anything to the mother earth, or for transforming flowers into fruits.  Do we pay to the tree?  So you cannot pay.  Neither you can put in any effort for it.  It is just spontaneous.  Its said, even I would say, at the time of Shivaji who was there about 400 years back.  Ramdasa, Shri Swami Ramadasa who was a great incarnation at that time I should say.  Somebody asked him how much time does it take for kundalini to rise?  He says, “Tat kshan.” That moment but people don’t read this.  This is not translated.  No one knows their names.  Nobody knows about them.  Even Shankaracharya I don’t know.  If people have translated him he was so late.  And no one wants to understand Shankaracharya.  It’s very easy to understand once you become the spirit.  Unless and until you are the spirit you can’t even understand Christ.  Like there theologians are now trying to prove that Christ had not immaculate birth, He had no miracles, and He was another theologian like all these people.  They cannot understand that God is beyond this mind.  He is the one who has created this mind.  And this human mind is a limited factor.  If you have to trigger yourself to that unlimited space you have to go beyond the mind.  And then you see the mind in a new enlightened way.  Now a new theory in England I don’t know if you know that or not that Christ was just an ordinary human being.  They can prove it they say.  How?  With your brains?  With your arguments?  That He never walked on water, that he was not an immaculate conception.  This was Mr. Paul who came much later than Christ.  When I saw him in Bible I said from where does he come in, Mr. Paul.  Who is this gentleman?  I couldn’t recognize him because he is the one who is talking something through his hat as they say.  He is not the one who talks like a saint.  He does not.  He is an organizer and you know he was epileptic patient.  Not only that but he killed so many Christians.  And then he becomes a great leader of Christians and then he becomes a great writer in Bible.  I don’t know how he came there.  And then Augustine perhaps reincarnated and they have done this mischief.  That’s why I find many people who come to Me if I start talking about Christ they walk off.  Christ was the son of God and it can be proved.  He was whether you like it or not.  Everything can be proved.  Who was Moses can be proved.  Now the time has come to prove all these scriptures.  All these incarnations, all these prophets.  What was the relationship between Christ and Krishna can be understood once you get your realization.  Without that you cannot understand.  But theologians can never understand Christ.  Christ had said that very rich cannot enter into the kingdom of God.  I sometimes feel these intellectuals or theologians can never enter into the kingdom of God.  That’s the area that they cannot enter.  You cannot discuss God.  You cannot.  You have to feel your spirit on your central nervous system as you can feel something hot and cold you have to feel those divine vibrations in your being.  Unless and until that happens we are living with falsehood and fraudulent things which are just imposed upon us.  Anything can be imposed.  People are so venerable.  Like here I fine some image is created.  Some sort of a funny image is created.  Everybody tries to be that.  Some sort of a… sort of a I can say an impression on the mind is given and then people just start following it.  May be that you do not know what to follow.  May be that you do not know what to find.  But still one must find out one thing.  Anybody who says this is true, you go and see his life.  You see him.  Is he righteous?  Is he a pure personality?  Is he what he says?  Is he a person who can take you to a kingdom of God?  Can he awaken the kundalini within you?  If he cannot why are you with him?  Why are you wasting your time and money with such a person?  And also see the disciples.  Are the desciples who are…what sort of life they lead.  Are they compassionate are they knowledgeable?  Are they kind?  Or the disciples are like mad people you see going on the streets singing the songs of their gurus.  You want to join them?  Their procession of madness?  All these diseases have come because you’ve tried new methods.  All these brain diseases are coming because you have got all these horrible gurus here.  It’s not what your age is.  In India people can be 80 years and 90 years, they don’t become mad.  Why should Americans become mad like that?  Because you have got all these gurus here nicely settled down.  They are spoiling your psychology.  They are working it out.  I said this in 1972 and people didn’t like it.  They said you better charge some money Mother for what you are doing.  I said how much are you going to pay Me?  This is what it is.  How much are you going to pay Me?  But they didn’t like it.  They said, “Even in England the BBC people told Me that an Anglo-Saxan brain cannot understand anything that is free.  I said, “What about breathing this free air?  How much are you paying for that?”  Everything divine has to be free.   God doesn’t understand money.  This is a fundamental thing you must understand.  Is out of your ego of your money that you think you can purchase God.  You cannot.  God is what it is.  It cannot compromise.

Now somebody told Me Mother don’t tell them about thoughtless awareness.  I said, “Why not?”  An Indian will immediately understand it’s called Nirvichar Samadhi written down in all the books.

“Why not?”

“Because they will be frightened.”

I said, “Then such frightened people cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”

It is not a compromise.  You are not obliging God.  The God’s divine power is obliging you because you are special people, of course created by God himself because you are seekers.  You are a special category because you are seeking beyond, its Gods grace that is going to work it out.

People have seen it in their unconscious despite all the effort of Paul and Augustine.  Cause I went to see a church in Venice and I was amazed they showed all the disciple sitting, 12 of them.  And I saw their kundalini on top of their head like the red thing coming up.  And the grace of course, they have shown Holy Ghost as a dove as usual but the grace is falling upon the heads of these.  And when they got their realization they also felt the cool breeze of the Holy Ghost.  And they started talking in strange languages.  That means people think irrelevant language.  It is not an irrelevant language they talk.  They don’t talk an irrelevant language.  They talk the language of the chakras.  You’ll find the sahaja yogis do the same.  Now for example somebody is there, immediately they will know what chakras are catching.  They talk in the language of chakras if the say somebody has got an Agnya.  Means the person is very ego oriented.  But they won’t say its Agnya or may be the back Agnya means he is possessed.  They talk the language of the chakras.  The subtle centres within us.  And when they move their hands they move the energy on your chakras on your head like the disciples of Christ move their hands.  As you must have heard that they were making funny gestures and people thought they were mad.  But first thing one has to know that you are not to depend on any hearsay.  Or whatever bombastic claims people do.  You have to yourself experience it.  You have to know that it has worked out in you.  You are not to be dishonest about it.  You have to be very honest to yourself.  You have to feel the experience yourself.  No use wasting anymore of your life because this is the last judgment.  Your Kundalini is going to judge you.  You are going to judge yourself.  You are going to correct yourself.  You are going to redeem yourself.  I will of course counsel you.  I will of course comfort you.  Also redemption one can do.  But it is you who has to know each and everything about it.  Like now we have…you have heard Danny.  What Danny has talked is very little than what he knows and even much less than what he can do.  In the same way you should be empowered.

The other day some gentleman interviewed Me.  He said. “Mother, I don’t want to be a guru.”  I said, “Who wants you to be a guru.  You are your own guru means to know what is absolute.  You have the full discretion to know what is absolute.  What is wrong and what is right.

How will you know that a person is a saint or not?  How will you find out?  How will you find if Christ stands before you?  Or how will you find out if the holy Ghost herself faces you? Is there any way of finding it out?  No you do not have.  You have not reached that state.  That sensitivity has not come into you.  And what is that missing is the spirit.  That spirit has to shine into your awareness by which you feel.  Now when you ask a question and if it is the truth you start feeling the cool breeze like a computer, as if the whole being is enlightened. And you become the communication of the truth and the absoluteness of the spirit.  Then you can raise the kundalini of others.  Like one enlightened light can enlighten another light.  But the light which is not enlightened cannot enlighten another light.  So you can enlighten other people.  You can give them realization.  That is happening everywhere and I must say despite the fact I think five times I have been to New York itself and I don’t know why Americans are not so good for sahaja yoga.  They don’t work out.  I don’t know why.  What’s the reason I just still cannot understand.  There are so many seekers born in this country.  I came in 72.  Most of the gurus came after Me.  Perhaps some one or two came earlier.  Of course now they are suffering from the pangs of those gurus no doubt.  But somehow I find Americans are lagging behind.  Europe is very fast growing India is of course much more.  If I go to India and stay there even for a year I am sure I can do much much more.  But I don’t know why Americans are not trying for the reality.  Of course I must say they are great seekers.  They are after the truth.  They are not frivolous people.  I do not know the justification.  Why Americans are very slow growing sahaja yogis.  They don’t want to have yoga in the real sense.  Why I don’t know.  Even if they get realization they do not practice it.  And they cannot go deep into it.  I cured a man suffering from AIDS.  I did.  I told him you have to practice sahaja yoga after this.  He did not.  Again he went back to the same habit and now he is dying.  It’s that what it is.  When you enter into the kingdom of God you have to practice it.  You have to settle yourself and establish yourself.  If you cannot establish yourself then you again go like up and down.  That’s not the way.  Only a person of that understanding can get to sahaja yoga.  Actually I had decided last year that I’ll never go back to America.  It’s out of My mind.  But I know you are seekers.  And I know you are suffering.  I know that you are the ones who want self-realization.  But you are attacked.  You are under attack of the falsehood.  So I warn you, please understand that you are not Americans.  You are part and parcel of the whole.  You have to become that.  You talk of peace, you have no peace within.  How can you create peace on this earth.  It is not that atom bomb that is going to destroy us.  It’s from within we are going to be destroyed.  If you do not get your chakras alright you’ll be faced with all kind of diseases, all kinds of troubles that are not yet known.  So please be careful I want to warn you.  Be very careful.  You can cure cancer, you can cure AIDS, you can cure all these things.  But you have to get to the spirit.  You have to be enlightened with the spirit.  Your chakras are to be cured so that you can cure others chakras.  I request you all of you who are here to be serious about it.  To understand it’s a very serious thing.  We are on the verge of a great calamity I have told about this in 1972.  Its on all My tapes.  I have said that a horrible disease is going to come.  Only about in my second visit I said, that brain is going to be affected.  But nobody listened to Me and when I was on the television they started telephoning to Me, “Mother now we are already in it.” Yes they are.  Not by singing songs for them or collecting money for them you are going to save them.  Only by becoming the spirit.  That’s the only way you can save them.  So I would request you to consider it seriously that even I give you realization you should not fritter away.  You should respect it.  You should ascent because I don’t take any money that’s what they say Americans will have no value for this.  You can’t pay Me I am sorry to say, you can’t pay Me.  If Americans don’t listen to Me Indians are very sensible people.  I will work it out there.  Yeah they are very sensible.  They won’t go to these fake gurus.  None except for the cities.  They run away from there.  Because they are thrown out.  They are very sensible wise people. Through trial and error, through tradition they have learned what is the truth is.  I don’t have to tell them much.  They know about kundalini.  I went to the foot hill of Himalayas only before coming and there were 3000 people…from all villages had gathered and they had written there is going to be Devi Jagaran.  Devi is the Goddess of Kundalini and She is going to be awakened.  They all knew about it and they came.  Because that also is predicted.  Very many years back, thousands of years back predicted that such a time is going to come when Kundalini is going to be awakened.  By Bhrugu Muni the pioneer of our astrology.  The complete description of sahaja yoga he has given.  So they are waiting for it.  You go to any village, you will get atleast 6-7 thousand people.  I mean some people who have been with Me in India have seen.  You don’t have to tell them much, don’t have to talk much.  They get it like that.  And they settle down is the point.  You go to one villages, there will be 10 villages there, all of them settle down.  And every time I go to a new village all of those people got realization at the foothills of Himalayas.  But I feel concerned, very concerned and I hope you will understand that concern.  I will have that concern for yourself.

I would like to have some questions from you.  That doesn’t mean you be aggressive with Me for nothing at all.  I’ve not come here to sell anything.  So please don’t be aggressive and waste time of others because some guru says that, that guru says that, if you think some guru is good you can go away I have nothing to say.  Here if you have to get something, you are here.  Please don’t upset everyone else by asking funny questions.  Now if you have any proper questions please ask Me.  I am here to answer you.