Public Program. Neuchatel (Switzerland), 12 June 1985.
Sahaja Yogi: Flowers, I am sure the weddings of last year worked out such tremendous…
Shri Mataji: Effects.
Sahaja Yogi: Size of flowers.
Shri Mataji: I have been very anxious to meet you all together, all the Sahaja Yogis of Switzerland. Now the reason for that is, this time when I came I found so many beautiful people at the airport and some of them I’ve not met, I felt, before. Now those who I’ve not met I would like them to stand up and tell Me their names.
Sahaja Yogi: Hello. [French]
Shri Mataji: What’s the name?
Sahaja Yogini: Renata.
Sahaja Yogi: She was going to the United States in Washington.
Shri Mataji: Really?
Sahaja Yogi: Yes.
Shri Mataji: We have already got there someone, somebody. Linda is her name and her husband’s name is [Curly]. He is going there and he is an engineer.
Sahaja Yogi: She has a very high position in the work so…
Shri Mataji: What, what is she doing there?
Sahaja Yogi: She is speaking in English.
Shri Mataji: Oh, I see.
Sahaja Yogi: I am a General Manager for an American company that is involved in the beauty business.
Shri Mataji: Oh, I see. I see.
Sahaja Yogi: And I have just received a promotion as a senior vice-president of a very important division in America with the same company.
Shri Mataji: Very good.
Sahaja Yogi: And I will be based in Washington.
Shri Mataji: It’s very good. So that’s it. So Linda is going there. She is a very intelligent, efficient girl, and also [Curly] is there. So you make contacts with Danny. It will be a good idea. But what’s the name you said?
Sahaja Yogi: Renata.
Shri Mataji: Renata.
Sahaja Yogini: Renata.
Shri Mataji: Renata, Renata. All right. You may sit. You are a US citizen?
Sahaja Yogini: No, I am German-born but my son was born in America [unclear]. He is also a Sahaja Yogi, my son.
Shri Mataji: Really?
Sahaja Yogini: Yes, he is twelve years old. He studies in England now.
Shri Mataji: Studying in England?
Shri Mataji: I’ve never met him but…
Renata: No, you haven’t met him but you met my mother, Shri Mataji, in Munich. She got her realization in Munich.
Shri Mataji: Really?
Shri Mataji: What’s her name?
Sahaja Yogini: Francesca.
Shri Mataji: Francesca.
Shri Mataji: Oh.
Sahaja Yogi: You met her.
Shri Mataji: I know, I know, I know, yes.
Renata: She was the lady with the hat that she took off.
Shri Mataji: Yes, yes, yes, I remember. Oh, very fair lady.
Sahaja Yogi: Yes, yes.
Shri Mataji: All right. Now who’s next, please?
Sahaja Yogi: [ Franca]
Shri Mataji: What’s her name?
Sahaja Yogi: [Franca]
Shri Mataji: [Franca ]
Sahaja Yogi: She is from the Italian side of Switzerland.
Shri Matai: That’s all right. What is she doing there?
Sahaja Yogi: She is living down in Switzerland, in Geneva.
Shri Mataji: But what is she doing? She’s studying?
Sahaja Yogi: Yes, she has just finished and accomplished law studies.
Shri Mataji: Law studies? Good. Now.
Sahaja Yogi: Roger.
Shri Mataji: Roger. This is Rogers, is it? From the word, Rogers?
Shri Mataji (to a child who is crying): I’ll put it right. It’s all right, didn’t hit it that hard. It’s all right. One minute, one minute. Better now. Now.
Sahaja Yogi: Is from France? [unclear]
Shri Mataji: I can’t hear.
Sahaja Yogi: He is from Geneva. He’s Swiss. I was not sure if he is Spanish or Swiss.
Shri Mataji: You see, he was saying that, Mother, most of the people are not French, Swiss. They are mostly other countries. So he was rather unhappy. So now he’s a Swiss. I am very happy. You see, Swiss people look, you see there are three nationalities here. So you can’t make out who is Swiss because they have a very international face.
Sahaja Yogi: This is something that I didn’t expect. C’est tres international.
Shri Mataji: All right. May God bless you. Thank you. What does he do?
Sahaja Yogi: Interior decorator.
Sahaja Yogi: Decorator. He is a decorator. He decorated your chairs, Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: Oh, I see. Thank you very much.
Sahaja Yogini: Monique.
Sahaja Yogi: Monique, his wife.
Shri Mataji: His wife?
Sahaja Yogi: His wife.
Shri Mataji: Where do you live? In Geneva?
Sahaja Yogi: In Geneva.
Shri Mataji: That is good.
Sahaja Yogini: Michelle.
Sahaja Yogi: Michelle from [La France].
Michelle: From La France.
Sahaja Yogi: From near Neuchatel.
Shri Mataji: All right. You have two children, Michelle?
Shri Mataji: Good. Beautiful, they are. Now, who’s that?
Sahaja Yogini: Maxine.
Shri Mataji: Maxine?
Sahaja Yogini: Maxine.
Shri Mataji: Maxine, very good name. And what’s her name?
Sahaja Yogi: Gabrielle.
Shri Mataji: Gabrielle?
Sahaja Yogi: Gabriel is Hanumana.
Shri Mataji: Of course, but that’s a girl. Yes, Hanumana had nine powers. So she could be the power of Hanumana, we can say. You can call her as Shakti. That would be better. Now, what about her? What’s your name, please?
Sahaja Yogi: Magdalena.
Shri Mataji: Magdalena. That’s a good name.
Sahaja Yogi: German, German name.
Shri Mataji: She’s German. Is it German? Magdalena is an old biblical name.
Sahaja Yogi: I don’t know.
Shri Mataji: Magdalena was the disciple of Christ. What’s the name of your child, Magdalena?
Sahaja Yogi: Estelle.
Shri Mataji: Estelle. That’s also a biblical. May God bless you. What are you? Where do you live?
Sahaja Yogi: I live in Lausanne, Shri Mataji, in Lausanne.
Shri Mataji: Lausanne. Oh, so we have some people in Lausanne. How many there are in Lausanne? Let’s see. Raise your hands, all those who are from Lausanne. One, two, three, four, five, six, [unclear] again, again one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, good number. It’s a great number, I must say. Seven to begin with. Yes, very good. It will work out now. Now, what’s your name?”
Sahaja Yogini: My name is Mary, Shri Mataji. [rest unclear]
Shri Mataji: She is Mary.
Sahaja Yogi: Yes, they are just living across the border in [Grenchen].
Shri Mataji: [Grenchen?]
Sahaja Yogi: [Grenchen] is just a place where Geneviève lives. You have been there.
Shri Mataji: Oh, I see, I see.
Sahaja Yogi: They are neighbors of Geneviève.
Shri Mataji: I see. And the child?
Sahaja Yogi: And the child is Celine.
Shri Mataji: Celine. That’s your child?
Sahaja Yogi: Grandchild.
Shri Mataji: Grandchild.
Sahaja Yogi: This is Babette, Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: I know. This is the child of your son.
Sahaja Yogi: It’s the child of Babette’s.
Mary: Babette’s daughter.
Shri Mataji: Babette’s daughter?
Mary: Babette’s sister’s daughter.
Shri Mataji: Oh, I see. Babette’s sister’s child. Babette is such a find, I tell you. Very good girl. She’s a very sensible, wise, very good girl. She brought her husband also. A very good man also, but she’s really great, I must say. Such an asset. Very good person, so she is. Thank you very much for giving us Babette and for coming down. And the little one. How are you? Are you all right now? So they are what and they are Swiss or French?”
Sahaja Yogi: This is American.
Shri Mataji: She’s French.
Shri Mataji: You are American. Oh, I see. Your husband is American.
Mary: No, my husband is Norwegian.
Sahaja Yogi: No, he is Norwegian.
Shri Mataji: Oh, that’s what he is. He told me Norway. Oh, that’s great. May God bless.
Sahaja Yogi: There is one more.
Shri Mataji: Yes, yes, I met him. It’s all right. I know he so, what are you doing now? Studying?”
Sahaja Yogi: Yes.
Shri Mataji: What?
Sahaja Yogi: Economy.
Shri Mataji: Economy. All right. That’s nice to know the new people.
Now today I have to say that you, when I stayed over in the night I felt that the collectivity is very much reduced in this place and the Virata was very badly off and just I couldn’t sleep with that, with the idea that something is going wrong in this place.
Now I have a feeling that in the West as it is everywhere people are very individualistic and they like to have their own little house and their garden. My house, my garden, my family, my this, ah mama. In Sanskrit it is called “mama” and from this comes “mamata” [Sanskrit] meaning attachment.
Now, this is all right. But the individuality must come after maturity. Like a tree which develops and evolves and bares flowers, becomes the fruit. Until the fruit is not matured it is sticking on to the tree but when it is matured then it leaves the tree, not before. And if it leaves before that then it never all right. It won’t have the quality of a mature fruit.
Now as you know in India we had a system of the joint family before. Even now in India in the villages and in the smaller cities you find people have joint families, and till the Western influence came to us very deeply we were a joint family. Like with My husband’s family there, when I was married there were hundred people living together under one roof, with one kitchen., And the house had grown like an octopus, you see, from one to another end in one day at a time and they had one kitchen [ unclear ] but one kitchen, and so I think in those grand families, you see, we matured. Even My father’s family, they were brothers, four brothers and three sisters, and they lived together in the beginning. And they had to come, My father had to come to Nagpur for his practice. So we had a house in Nagpur, My father’s house, we could say, at the most. And everybody from the village from the smaller cities used to come down and sometimes we used to have more than a hundred people in the house. And I remember the boys and girls had a huge big dormitory about five times bigger than this; one dormitory for the boys, one for the girls. And in winter time, you see, the blankets may not be sufficient. Some may have two and some may have none. So there was a big fight, you see, the whole night through. The blanket passing through the… just like passing the buck, you see. The thing was passing around just like a musical chair and there was so much joy in that.
So in our childhood and young age we lived like that, sharing everything and sharing the joy. I must say that has made all of us very extremely adjustable and not at all fussy. We were eleven brothers and sisters, ultimately. We had more but ultimately we were eleven brothers and sisters. Ourselves and other cousins and relations and quite a lot of that and servants and maid servants and big household, and I don’t remember even, even one day when we had less than thirty people to eat food in our house. At least thirty people excluding servants.
After that My family, My father said we all had to separate in a way because we had different houses and things and everybody knows/was very high in life, despite all the sacrifices of my father for the movement of Independence. And as you have seen my brother’s house and all that, they are quite well-to-do people. They are very adjustable. They can share their bedroom, they can share their house with anyone. They are very happy to share with everything. But My father, though he was a great realized soul, he was very anxious that as children we should be first disciplined to live and share with others. We had cars and we had ? what you call them ? Pretorias and horses, everything, in the house but he would make us walk every day to school about four miles. And for lunch he would send a big barrow for the servants with food and in the evening he would send us the car but not in the morning time. And we had lots of fun because so many of us walking together to school, it was enjoyable early in the morning in the fresh air.
All of us used to get up about four o’clock in the morning in the family and finish our bath everything, be ready by about five. And My father was very fond of swimming. So he used to walk about six miles [abode] for swimming. Swim for long distance. He used to swim and come back by that time, and we used to sit down after that for our meal. After five o’clock we were all for our meal and then go for our prayers in the family. And after that we would come out and sit down for our [service] and then have our breakfast about nine o’clock and then go to school walking. And our schools would be about ten thirty so we had to walk little fast. But that disciplining has helped us so much, all of us, all brothers and sisters. We have made, all of us have made something out of our lives.
He used to teach us that never allow your body to sit on your head. We had comfortable beds but he used to say sometimes we must sleep on the palliasse – what we call it the mats. And we were very rich people but he would see that we don’t learn comfortable ways of life. So any day anybody who said my body was paining on the mattress mat, then he would say, “All right, then there you sleep. Then your body will be all right.” And he used to say that, “Your body is for you. You are not for your body. So make your body your slave.” Luckily My first sister-in-law came, she was also a very nice lady and she also joined hands with all of us. So we had no sort of bad examples. My sisters, elder sisters, though they were MAs and everything, very good at all this disciplining, very good.
My mother very innocent but extremely strict lady, she never told lie in her lifetime. And if you go and tell her that, “This gentleman is coming and you better tell him that we are not in the house,” she would say, “You don’t tell me to tell him lies. I will tell him you told me to tell a lie.”
Then, you see, she was mathematics honors and also had done law. You know, My father was a plain scholar. He knew, master of fourteen languages, he knew twenty-six languages. He only told me that French is a most absurd language. They have made it so exclusive because they want to be exclusive people. He told me lots of things about human beings, but his own style was that whatever he said he practiced. When they joined Congress and they sacrificed everything ? his suits were, he used to wear state coats/clothes and all that, a real Englishman he was ? and everything he has burnt on the square. He said, “The suits were made in England [Exclusive Lord ], some company was there, I don’t know. It’s not no more. I don’t find it there,” and he burnt all his clothes, all his Western clothes, on the square and then he started wearing khadi. Then both my mother and father used to spin their own yarn, spin their own yarn, you see, with the charka and only wear clothes made out of those yarns ? only wear that.
He was a very respectable, very highly placed man. He was Mayor of India. And he was a very well-known lawyer of Nagpur and he was a member of Constitute Assembly which meant the Constitution. He was the Member of Parliament. My mother was the president of the Provincial Congress committee herself. And they used to spin their own yarn, and my father told me this is very meditative. So he had many hobbies like fishing. He used to say fishing is very meditative.
On the whole I have to say they made their body in such a manner, that they used it to its maximum. Till they died they had all their teeth intact, like Mine. They never went to the dentist like Me. Till they died they were walking very nicely, but their discipline made such an impression on our mind. And we liked it very much because it has helped us to mould our lives, that we never take, took to luxurious life. If you are surrounded by luxuries it is all right; if you are not it’s all right.
That’s what I feel, that we received our maturity in the house, that we had such a huge house with so many people living there. The contact with the aunts and uncle and we were supposed to go and see all of them when they were sick and such contacts that we met very beautiful people in our lifetime. But this exclusiveness has created problems for you because you stagnate, there is no circulation and that’s how people become very stagnated. I feel during the war the people who lived in the West also developed a greater sense of insecurity. And after that those people who lived or existed after that continued with that sense of insecurity.
But luckily we are the people who had parents who had fought for the freedom of India. Very brave people. I’ll give you an example of my father’s bravery. He had so many children, he had his family, everybody depending on him, but one day he went and climbed quite late in age ? it must have been at that time about fifty years of age ? climbed over the High Court to remove the Union Jack. And British soldiers shot at him but he removed the Union Jack and came down and then they arrested him. They arrested him many times, but once he was in jail for two and a half years. That was in forty two.
I was also very busy fighting for the freedom of my country. My mother had become very nervous because I was very young and my father was in jail. All our properties were confiscated, our cars, everything confiscated. We had nothing except for mother had a very big large [unclear regent malay/mangala?] of gold which she pawned and got the money for us. And one day people came and told us that my father and other prisoners from Nagpur jail are transferred to [unclear] jail, very great leaders all of them, were transferred to Gwalior jail and there on the platform because people used to help us a lot. Now when we went to the platform, you see, already my mother had written letters to my father and to Vinobe Bahve, a disciple of Mahatma Gandhi, very old, quite old. So [unclear] called me. He said, “You are very young and your mother is worried and they give you electric shocks and they make you— on the ice, they make you sleep on the ice and they are torturing your life, they are beating you and you shouldn’t do anything like that because your mother is so much worried.” My father just took me on one side. He told me, “I am very proud of You and even if all my children are killed and I am killed I don’t mind because we have to get this independence. This is our responsibility. I am angry with your mother because she is worried: she should not be worried about You.” I think My father knew, of course he knew, that I was Shakti. So he wanted Me to be there. So he told Me, “Don’t listen to this old man.” Such a character we have seen in our family, and many like these we have seen ? such people of principles. What sacrifices, for this struggle of independence, living in the palaces and then living in the huts, but we never felt.
Now today we have the freedom struggle of our Spirit. It entails no sacrifice on your part. You are blessed all the time with all the bounties of God. So much is for you. You have done nothing. You have sacrificed nothing. When Hitler came you fought with him. Of course, Swiss never fought, anywhere. That’s why they don’t lack certain things. As a result, you see, of this war one must understand this is another war we have started. We have done no sacrifices whatsoever. We still believe in [my/mine] and also we want to be individualistic, selfish and miserly. And the worst thing is, I’m surprised that the Sahaja Yogis on the periphery start gossiping. What made us so collective in those days we had nothing to look forward. In 1857 when we had the first War of Independence everybody was lost. It could have been another war and we could have been lost, when these English having their cannons at us.
But now what I find that the sense of sacrifice is zero and sharing is missing. The reason is we are not yet mature and that’s why our conditionings are still dragging us down. Unless and until a pot is fired well, you cannot contain water in that earthen pot. So this lacking of maturity has created Sahaja Yogis who are, some of them are murmuring souls, some are pleasure-loving, some of them are still carrying on with their horrible weaknesses. Some of them go to India and create a problem for Me because they have very bad vibrations. It’s a very funny thing that is happening to Sahaja Yoga sometimes in the West.
If you have to ascend, all of us have to get together, share and learn to sacrifice. Your country is giving so much money to, say, other countries or maybe Red Cross and all that, but it’s very hypocritical, I think. You cannot afford to be materialistic if you are a Sahaja Yogi: neither can you be selfish and conceited. You have to understand that it’s a very great fight I have started with the satanic forces and negativity, and My children have to be brave, have to be noble, have to be generous, and above all have to be wise and mature. I personally think all the Western Sahaja Yogis must stay in the ashram for some time to mature, and instead of finding faults with the organization or with the leaders, find faults with themselves.
We could not challenge our father or mother. For example, on the table ? and it was a big table ? so many used to sit down and if there was no salt in the food my father would not say that because he didn’t want to upset my mother and he had to keep quiet and eat that food without salt. Such delicate culture comes out of maturity. The fruit which is not mature is bitter. You cannot eat it, it is so hard, it has no taste, it has no color, it has no flavor, though it looks nice on the tree, not outside. In the same way I feel that you should have very good ashrams. I bless you for that a hundred times and you all should try to stay in the ashram at least for some short time. As it is, our house was an ashram, I must say, but my parents were not satisfied with that. They used to send us to Gandhi ashram. And in Gandhi ashram we all used to sleep on the mats, no question. Whether you are Jawaharlal Nehru or anyone, all sleeping on the mats. Only when they were about sixty years or fifty years they would get a little mattress; that’s all. They were supposed to get up in the morning, all of them were to take their bath, to be ready for the prayers same way. But they had to walk with Gandhiji. He used to walk very fast for one hour, but the worst part of it was you had to clean your latrines and you had to clean the latrines of the guests. You had to wash your clothes, you had to wash your utensils, you had to cook, you had to do gardening. No servants, no servants were there. This was terrible training. We had to eat food which was so funny because now I know what it was like, you see. I don’t know how to describe it, but now I can eat any food, French, English, any kind. We used to boil vegetables and put in that raw mustard oil, and in Indian cooking we never boiled the food or vegetables never boiled. First we season it and then boil it. We season it with oil or something and then boil it. So it was too much for us to eat boiled food and when my husband has to sometimes eat Western food he says, “How do you eat this fodder?” I said, “If you had stayed in Gandhi’s ashram you can eat anything.”
So that disciplining is very, very important. You may be old but you don’t have the discipline of sharing. And I have seen people in the West when they stay together there are always complaints. “This is not good. That is not good.” But you have visited India. Have you ever seen all of these Indians complaining? Some of them are multi-millionaires. You would never see them sleeping. You would never see them sitting down. You would always see them working, and God knows when do they take their food. They serve you because they think you are saints. They don’t take a single paisa from Me. When they travel they pay for their own food. Only it is last time I could give some money to our centre to buy the land for your school, but so far I could not even save any money out of what you were, when you were there. And they are so loving and so affectionate. If you remember the case one night you did not eat, you see, and how upset they were. And they said, “I think Mathias was very angry.” So I called him, Mathias, and he said, “No, Mother. I was not angry.” Actually, all of them came to explain, “No, we were not angry. Only thing was that we were all very full. So we wanted to sleep.” But one of them still said, “Still it will be recorded that our guests did not take their food for one night. It will be recorded still.” So I said, “Where will it be recorded?” They said, “In our hearts,” and, I mean, Mathias and all these people ? and Gregoire was also there I think, was he? ? they all were filled with tears. They couldn’t understand their affection. All this comes, all this comes through proper disciplining in childhood, in a collective living. That enjoyment, that loving compassion, that fondness to do for others. I mean, if you tell them you are coming they will start think immediately, “Now what are we going to cook for them? What are we going to do for them?” without knowing who they are or from where are they coming. No, the guests are coming; so they are very happy. I mean, even if a thief comes in the house they’ll say, ‘’First have your food. Then you can do the thieving.’’
I’ll end up this story with a story of Alexander. I don’t know if I have told you about him. Did I? I must tell you that. How we are matured in tradition. So many attacks came like tantrism, this, that, but because of such a traditional movement of our revolution that evolved into very mature people, because we cannot take to anything stupid, you know, but still it’s very delicate. Maybe it sounds stupid to a rational mind – Western rational mind ? but I will tell you the story of Alexander the Great. He came to India and he invaded us and he had won many provinces. But once he was defeated by a King called Puru and he was imprisoned and put into jail. He had married an Indian lady. One princess he had married. This princess, of course they say Indians talk very mature. And when Alexander was arrested that was the day, when after some time the day of the Rakhi came. So what she did was to put a Rakhi ? you know what a Rakhi is ? in a plate and covered it with a beautiful cloth and sent it to this King Puru. Now that was a Rakhi day. So you cannot refuse a Rakhi. So he said, “All right, tie the Rakhi to me.” Then he said, “Who is this? Who has sent it? Who is my sister?”
They said “That is the wife of Alexander.” “Oh God !” he said, “I have arrested my own brother-in-law! It’s very, very wrong. It’s sinful.” He went to the jail and he fell at the feet of Alexander. Alexander was shocked at his behavior, very confused. He brought him from there very nicely and told him, “You sit on my throne. Take everything. I didn’t know you had married my sister. Forgive me. Forgive me for what I have done and somehow or other try to understand that I didn’t do it knowingly.”
With all these apologies he made a big procession of people with lots of jewellery and foodstuff and sweets and all that and he sent him home with big pomp and show. So he went inside his house where his wife was smiling. So he said, “What is this?” She said it is the [charisma]. [Charisma] is the magic, of a thread. For a Greek that gross, you see, gross, big, always making money and thinking about money, Greeks are, like the Greek ship owners. You see their ships are falling out, even the keel is left, they’ll carry on with their business. They are like that, Greeks are, very business-minded. So this one he could not understand what is the thread. She said, “Today do you know is the Rakhi day and this day I send to my, him a Rakhi. So he becomes my brother with a thread.” She showed him and she explained to him the auspiciousness of this relationship. And Alexander said, “That settles it. I am going home.” He said, “These people have such a delicate culture that they give up a person who can destroy the whole country on a thread? The symbolism is so strong in their lives. How can I rule these people? I am too gross.” and he said, “All right, give me two poets from your country and I will go away.” He thought he would learn some from Indian poetry. We call Alexander the Great because he was a man who saw the truth who faced it. Only after that he was called as Alexander the Great. And he sent his artist to India to teach us how to [Hume] the rocks. And those artist have made Buddha also with moustache and with shoes and a rendition of their hair like Greeks, you see, round, round, round. And nose straight from the forehead, you see, like Greeks have. Buddha was a Mongolian. So, you see, he had a different type of a nose, but they made him into a Greek fellow. So that’s how a report started on a thread. But this thing one can only achieve the subtlety to reach the subtler side of life through maturity. And that maturity is to be achieved and attained through collectivity.
For example, Shri Krishna here, he’s sixteen petals. He’s called as [Purnankalar]. When Chandrama the moon is complete in the sixteenth phase is called as [Poorna], complete. Shri Krishna, is complete, is complete maturity of the incarnations of Shri Vishnu, is Shri Krishna. And the Vishuddhi Chakra when it is complete, your nose, eyes, your teeth your tongue, your throat, your ears, everything matures. And this can be achieved through collectivity because Krishna stands for collectivity. If you don’t have a collective temperament you’ll have funny faces and you may have to go to the dentist. You might have very bad eyes, you might have eye troubles, you may have throat troubles as I have because you people have not got a good Vishuddhi. I have to get it because you are all inside here. If you are not collective you cannot know whether you are pure or not. In collective only you will know yourself. So one has to learn to be collective in an ashram. You don’t have to sacrifice anything in Sahaja Yoga but you have to become joyous with your brothers and sisters in purity, and then the subtle sense of beauty Sahaja Yoga will come into you. Otherwise you always go on complaining about some ugly mess which doesn’t exist because your eyes are upside down, I think. So as these flowers understand the importance of being in the ashram, you also should understand. They can feel the purity of the place. You should also. Why not exploit it? Have a permanent picnic. That’s all. It is going to be very enjoyable and I think, I hope, I bless you that you develop beautiful ashrams in Switzerland. And may you mature and become beautiful people and move as one personality, deep, dignified, joyous, and then you will say, “See, Sahaja Yoga will work out.”
The example is Rome. That way Italian are very collective by temperament, but they had an attack from other people who went and stayed there. Now, thank God, they have all disappeared and it’s very collective, they are living very happily and as soon as it has happened the whole atmosphere is changed and the government is with us. Even the Vatican itself sent car for Me at the airport and they arranged My program in the television. And the lady at the television said, “My daughter is not baptised and they will drive me out of the job and they don’t know. And I am happy you have come now to correct them.” You see, there is a competition now between the Socialist government and the Vatican, both trying to please Me to get the majority, and they all remarked that, “Your disciples are all scholars and wonderful people and they are very much united and never talk ill of each other and they are very pure.” This is something unique. You cannot find such disciples anywhere. Once that happens in Switzerland then we can get the Swiss banks. All right. So may God bless. Thank you very much.
So tonight will be all at Neuchatel. Then we’ll see. I’ve been there once. Just I saw the place.
Sahaja Yogi: Shri Mataji, It is one hour’s drive. Is that too much for you?
Shri Mataji: No, no, no. It’s all right. One hour is nothing. In America if you go, everything is two hours’ drive minimum, and you are all the way on the freeway, you know? Freeway, half of your life is spent on the freeway in America.
Sahaja Yogi: Shri Mataji, just one thing we would like to show you before You go. We have done a little thing. The Sahaja Yoginis here would like to present something they did themselves.
Sahaja Yogini: You once, last year you mentioned something, Shri Mataji, like painting porcelain has been something typical for Switzerland. So the collectivity has to present you some painting or some paintings painted by the Sahaja Yogis.
Shri Mataji: Present Me for what? I would like to see, but why present?
Sahaja Yogini: It is because you came to Switzerland, Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: No, no, no.
Sahaja Yogi: They did it. It was absolutely, we have to say that it was extremely cheap because we only, they did it themselves.
Shri Mataji: But such labor. The peonies are beautiful, aren’t they? The peonies are. What’s this, other flowers are beautiful.
Sahaja Yogini: It’s a style from old new style, Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: It’s old new style. Good idea. Beautiful, but peony is a very traditional style, I must say. It’s beautiful. Oh, wow, that’s too much. I mean, there is no occasion. How beautiful it is, so beautiful. You see, it’s so beautiful that I don’t know if I can use that.
Sahaja Yogini: Oh no, it’s all done by the Sahaja Yoginis.
Shri Mataji: It’s too much, [unclear] it’s too much. Such a beautiful thing. It’s a real beauty, I tell you. They will ask me from where did you get it and then I will tell them that Sahaja Yogis have made. So they will say you are also making money. It’s beautiful. See, this is so beautiful. It’s beautiful, it’s bone China and the shape is so beautiful. Is it a typical Swiss shape?
Sahaja Yogi: I don’t know, Shri Mataji.
Sahaja Yogini: It is German, Shri Mataji. The porcelain is German.
Shri Mataji: German. All right, that’s a good thing ? German’s having flowers.
Sahaja Yogi: It is collective.
Shri Mataji: All right. Now you have made it I have to say yes, but I think it is too much. How many pots you have put there?
Sahaja Yogi: Seven, I think.
Shri Mataji: Really? Oh, that’s very sweet of you. Thank you ever so much. Thank you very much. What is this now? This is what?
Sahaja Yogi: We’d like to open them to tear up…
Sahaja Yogini: Some more porcelain, Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: With that? To match?
Sahaja Yogi: Not exactly.
Shri Mataji: Was it made by you people?
Sahaja Yogi: Can we open it for Shri Mataji?
Sahaja Yogini: Yes, Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: Who all have made it? Raise your hands. All of you high, high up. I want to see. High up. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, good number. Nine Shaktis. I told you Hanumana has nine Shaktis.
Shri Mataji: What a beauty! Just look at that, eh? Oh, what a beauty! It is beautiful. Oh, I didn’t say you make it for Me.
Sahaja Yogi: Occasion.
Sahaja Yogini: Shri Mataji, we had to show You how Your Saraswati’s blessings work.
Shri Mataji: Oh, may God bless you. Oh, beautiful. Very good. I didn’t know you were such a great artist. You must take to paintings. We can start an industry. It is really beautiful, you know. It’s very beautiful, very delicate. It’s very delicate work. I think by this there will be a revival in the delicate art that you used to produce in this country. Once upon a time I remember my husband bought a frock and a dress, a warm dress for my daughter Kalpana from Switzerland, just when she was one year old, you see. Beautiful frock and beautifully done. She has got it even now, that frock, beautiful. Oh, so many things. That is too much, isn’t it? It is very beautiful. Is this one of the plates the prisoner of Chillion? Is this the prisoner of Chillion? No, no, no, where the prisoner was kept and they wrote the story, Byron.
Sahaja Yogi: It could be. Maybe. I don’t know.
Shri Mataji: Could be. Looks like that. It’s beautiful. What has upset you, Danny? What I said about English?
Danny: What, Shri Mataji?
Shri Mataji: You are no more English now. Forget it. You should all forget. You are no more English. You are your forefathers. They are finished now. Why do you take their load up on your heads? They are very different people. Thank you. Same about Philip. Both are very serious. I could make out easily you are English. You shouldn’t think like that. You have nothing to do with that. That’s all finished, gone, finished. Now the bankers, you see, the bankers are here doing what they want to do. You are not connected with that. Now if your children start taking the load, the load of the bankers who gave money for the war, it’s wrong, because you have nothing to do with that and your children will have nothing to do either.
Sahaja Yogi: But you have to fight that but without being connected with this load.
Shri Mataji: Yes, you have to fight. This is what it is. That it is wrong. You are the ones who have opposed it. You are the ones who didn’t like it. So one should never take the load of some wrong people.
Beautiful is the word, beautiful. All right.
Sahaja Yogini: Mother, this is from Bulgaria.
Shri Mataji: What is that?
Sahaja Yogini: This is a little symbol.
Shri Mataji: What is it?
Sahaja Yogi: It is a plate from Bulgaria.
Shri Mataji: Bulgaria?
Sahaja Yogini: Yes.
Shri Mataji: Good. It is beautiful.
Sahaja Yogini: It symbolizes the health.
Shri Mataji: It’s interesting, isn’t it?
Sahaja Yogini: It is a symbol of health, Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: The vase [unclear] very beautiful.
Sahaja Yogini: And there are also flowers [some kind of roses]. They are only from Bulgaria. The little…
Sahaja Yogi: They are only coming from Bulgaria, these kind of flowers.
Shri Mataji: There are flowers to it?
Sahaja Yogini: Yes.
Shri Mataji: And they have to be kept inside the house?
Sahaja Yogini: And you can put in the ground.
Shri Mataji: Outside?
Sahaja Yogini: Yes.
Shri Mataji: “Now one thing I must say is that I don’t know if they will allow this to be taken to London or not. We’ll have to smuggle it. When you come for Guru Puja bring it. Then they can do it.
Sahaja Yogi: Yes, that’s a good idea, Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: You’ll have to smuggle it. This also, better to bring it for Guru Puja.
Sahaja Yogi: It will be safer.
Shri Mataji: Safer, yes. Now what is that? See that piece that is there, that plate. Very beautiful art. Is it Chinese?
Sahaja Yogini: I think it comes from English, Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: English?
Sahaja Yogini: Excuse me, Mother. I think it’s from India. Indian stone china. India.”
Shri Mataji: No, no, no, India they never made so good. No, that what they never made so good in India.
Sahaja Yogini: Looks like an old Chinese one.
Shri Mataji: Must be English. I am surprised. Since when Indians started making such nice things? No, unfortunately we are no good. I must say, we are good in something we make the blue pottery we are good but this is Indian, is it? Do you think it is Indian?
Sahaja Yogi: Looks like it. Perfect or something.
Shri Mataji: No, but it’s the work which is so delicate. Might be Chinese. It is written “Indian”, no doubt. This is a remarkable piece. Only thing there are lotuses, I think.
Sahaja Yogi: Possibly Mongolia?
Shri Mataji: No, it’s written Indian. Surprising. So beautiful. It’s surprising that it’s India, I don’t know, I mean why, if you give me that one I’ll enquire to find out where do they make. In India you see, sometimes you don’t know. Like once I went to Brussels and the person in the car he told me that at the Ambassador’s place, Indian Ambassador ? we were going for lunch ? so he said, “You will find beautiful Indian furniture.” I said, “What?” “Yes,” and he said, “it is made of ebony.” I said, “Made of ebony?” “Yes, from India.” So I said, “All right,” and I went and I asked this Mr. Ambassador, I said, “From where does this furniture comes?”
He said, “I don’t know. They say it comes from India but I don’t know from where it comes.” And it was beautifully made in ebony with ivory. I went back to India and tried to find out. They said, the fellow you see the one driver was eighty years of age, the gentleman that took us. He said “Did you see the furniture?” I said, “Yes, it was beautiful.” He said, “We all know about it.” I said, “But from where does it come?” So he told me the name of the place. [Bamina] or something like that. I said, “Really? I don’t know this place, where it is.” He said, “It must be somewhere. You find out.”
So I went to India. I asked many people. I said, “Have you heard of this place?” They said, “No, we have never heard.” And one day a relation of mine came and I told him. He’s from [Manavadar]. He said, “It’s very close to [Manavadar].” I said, “Really? I must go. Do they make ebony?” He said, “Yes, yes, they make things there.”
I went there and I was amazed at the store houses they had of this beautiful black furniture, and they said, “We have made the chair for the Queen of England, Victoria, and this and that.” And so many things that beautiful things made in Ebony and label with ivory and they gave it for no price to Me, and one of the boxes, that of that ebony, I have given as a present. Murray has got it. Have you seen the box? I think you must have seen. It is a beautiful ebony box, for no price and that’s what it is, surprising, you see. You must find out these place. It must be somewhere, near [unclear] some place. That country is really quite mysterious.
Sahaja Yogi: Because of the potential.
Shri Mataji: Yes, and nobody knows about it. That, you see, tremendous valuable things they have there, so much. And then Shastriji was there; he was the Prime Minister. I went and told him. He was shocked. I said, “Now you do something about it.” So Shastriji said, “All right. Call that man and I would like to see him.” So this fellow came to see him, Lal Bahadur Shastri. And Shastriji said, “Something should be done about it,” and he wrote to the industry department and all that, but the Shastriji died. So nothing came up. The people are still there and still willing to do a lot of work. It’s there, beautiful things. But I tried to show your box to people. They are not interested. You see, they want insipid things. What to do? Handmade and insipid things. Now why make it with the hand? Make it with machine. Very sad. Americans appreciate, though. I will send it to America and find out. Americans are better, much better people, that way. I don’t know how. There’s something good about them is this, though they are very childish but they like to have artistic pieces. They like art. They like very decorative places. They like old houses, you see. They don’t like modern things.
How are you? What happens? Martha was very bad, I didn’t know she was such a Protestant but yesterday I saw that written on her face. And he had not even told me about her, nothing of the kind. And just I told her because I know what Protestants are because I was born in that horrible cult. Very mental, sophisticated. You see, Catholics are left-sided. They are left-sided people, Catholics are. They are very emotional and these are mental people and they have made a science out of God.
Where are they catching? But you must clear it out. It’s very simple. I have found out one method. Try it; it helps. Today only I have found it out. If you use My feet, the photograph of My feet and put your attention to it with your hands towards it, it works out very well. Try that. Worth trying. Today it worked out very well with people. I think it will work out with you people. If you can have a nice photograph of the feet, just put there, clean it properly. You may watch it, put your hands on that like this and watch it and see it. Sit in the same light and after that you can put some flowers or something or some kumkum on that, but before that you just watch it and see. Maybe it might help.
Sahaja Yogi: Specially for Agnya, Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: Specially for Agnya. You are looking very miserable [I couldn’t know]. How are you? Are you all right now? And [Clintar] are you all right? Are you better? We have to work hard, you see. We have to work very hard to understand that Sahaja Yoga has to spread, but first is collectivity for which is spontaneous, for which you don’t work hard it is/you less work. You work hard not to be collective. French have the same problem. French are the worst, worse than anybody else. French are very quarrelsome people, very difficult. Poor Alexander has given up. Now let’s see another one has come in the field. It’s Patrick. Already he looks quite flabbergasted. Very quarrelsome people. Quarrel all the time, talk ill, this, that, I don’t know but let’s see what happens and when the people come in the ashram, they see people like this and they run away. They run away. I am giving them a big lecture this time about collectivity, everything. We are going to have Guru Puja also. I hope it works out. I have been to France so many times, so many. I have worked very hard with them. Something funny about them. They like to quarrel. They like it. That’s the problem with them. Like we had one gentleman was French [Regis] and Marie used to always support him, I said, “Marie, he is very quarrelsome.” She said, “Yes, we like to quarrel.”
I said, “No, you don’t like it. Nobody would like it. It’s joyless.” So when Marie left the program I sent [Regis] to him. He stayed with them. After that Marie said, “Mother, please forgive me. I will never, never support him.”
So this is the trouble with them. You see, they are non-collective by temperament and they have to really be spontaneous to enjoy each other. But they go on sometimes like that and even if you ask them, “How are you?” they say like this. I say, “When are you going to be like this, all the time like this, like this, because if you quarrel,” ? they are all the time on quarrelling basis ? “you can never enjoy each other.” The day may come when all the Sahaja Yogis from France will disappear into other countries and you’ll be all right. I don’t know what to say. I hope and pray this time when we go there we will find the French united together. Only they need Napoleon to unite them, I think. So this is what it is. That’s one of the worries I have about the French. I hope you share my worries and pray for their unity, their complete unity and collectivity.
Sahaja Yogi: One thing, Shri Mataji, that the link between them and us is very much there. The link is very much there because of the language, because of the French language which is in itself very, very exclusive.
Shri Mataji: No, that’s not the thing. I think you are wrong. The link that they have is drinking. Unless and until they drink they can’t talk to each other. That’s it. The French must drink to talk to each other. Otherwise they cannot be sweet. They start with sweet talks after drinks and then they come to fists. That’s what it is. Like this. This link or whatever you may say doesn’t work out. And we are going to have an inauguration now of the French book, “Advent”, and all of you are going to be there for Guru Puja, I am sure and that is on Sunday morning. We are going to have 10 o’clock this program.
Dr Narend Singh is going to inaugurate. His wife is also coming and all of us should be there and I hope the French will present themselves as one united beautiful people and will bring good name to Me.
Sahaja Yogi: Shri Mataji, In this sense Patrick has phoned and he asked you when Dr Singh would come because he does not know yet the time.
Shri Mataji: You should let him talk to Dr Singh himself. He doesn’t have his phone number?
Sahaja Yogi: I don’t know, because he just told me.
Shri Mataji: No, no I will tell him the phone number from my husband. He must be having his phone number. I will tell him. Tell him to telephone to Me in England and I will tell him. Oh yes, but you must do it fast, you see. Gregoire knows his phone number, Dr Narend Singh. So you should ask him about the details and everything. All things can be done properly and his ticket must be booked, his wife’s ticket must be booked ? both of them are coming ? and their return and their stay. Gregoire knows all about it. You tell Gregoire. He was going to go to Paris himself.
Sahaja Yogi: Yes, Patrick phoned to Gregoire and Gregoire didn’t know the details of the coming of Dr Singh.
Shri Mataji: No, no, you see, you have to decide with him, not Me.
Sahaja Yogi: Oh yes, yes.
Shri Mataji: I will tell Patrick to contact Dr Narend Singh and ask him for his details when is he coming, what is happening and you have somebody there. You can telephone to him. Find out his number and if you don’t have you can ask Mr Srivastiva in the office. Gregoire can ask him or Patrick can ask him and then tell him to find out.
Sahaja Yogi: And in France would you like to stay in Paris or Bordeaux where Patrick is having his house? He is asking this question, too.
Shri Mataji: I don’t mind. Anywhere, as long as, I don’t know if Sir CP’s coming, then I don’t know what his position would be, but his house is always available. The second alternative is if CP would like to stay in a hotel or something. I don’t know.
Sahaja Yogi: Maybe Paris, or…
Shri Mataji: If he comes. If he comes [unclear]. So let’s see what happens. The hall is good, that hall is good and it’s sensible, respectable? I’ve told Gregoire to go and see [Dianne] who’s there, who is now there till October. Now can I take leave?
Sahaja Yogi: Yes.
Shri Mataji: Who has given me this?
Sahaja Yogini: I did, Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: Thank you very much. What’s that? It’s French, is it?
Sahaja Yogini: Chinese, Shri Mataji, from China.
Shri Mataji: From China, is it? French are good at that, at making beautiful scents, you know, which I use. China, what is it from China? Let’s see. Oh, look at that. Isn’t she nice? So beautiful. That’s the lotus to support her. Just see the way she is sitting, it’s beautiful. In meditation, very beautiful piece. Where did you get it?
Sahaja Yogi: It’s a shop not far from here, Shri Mother, and they have very beautiful Chinese export.
Shri Mataji: It’s a real beauty, I tell you. Look at that, the details that are worked out, and see the Kundalini coming up there. A real beauty. Do you see the Kundalini? What a pose, eh? It’s beautiful. Thank you very much. May God bless you. Thank you. Thank you. So beautifully done.
H.H. Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi