Public Program And Raksha Bandhan Seminar + unknown talk

Southlands College, London (England)

1985-08-31 Public Program, Raksha Bhandan Seminar, London, England, DP-RAW, 246'
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Public Program and Talk to Sahaja Yogis. Wimbledon, London (UK), 31 August 1985.

…where example of the dearth of seeking in this country or may be there is some sort of lacking on the part of English Sahaja Yogis also. The way that, because I am here, people take things for granted or may be that there are few like Gavin and others are very anxious, trying to do their level best to do this. And I think on two points My being here failed. One point is that we all must know “What have we done for Sahaja Yoga?” Some people take two or three posters and post them then they think they have done everything. No. You have to do much more than anywhere else because you are placed in this important thing called the heart. Everybody has had an advantage of Sahaja Yoga, has been helped a lot. We have to think what have we done for Sahaja Yoga. It has done so much for us; what have we done for Sahaja Yoga. That’s very important.

So then there should be, I think I was expressing that anxiety which the people, who are your leaders and those who are worried about Sahaja Yoga in England. And My lecture, the whole lecture has that tremendous concern; and then we have to think what have we done. We have houses, we have places, we have ashrams, we have families, we have wives, we have every thing and the Sahaja Yoga still if it is “by the way” then this is the result. You get twenty nonsensical arrogant people who don’t get realization and some of them get it and get out. So I think this is on one side. Is this that what have we done for Sahaja Yoga? We should be, in other countries I am not there, so it’s for them when I go there even for four five days, the whole place is filled with My posters, the whole place. It has to be done every time I speak. The whole of London should have been today filled with My posters. I mean anybody who goes to, say, Switzerland or to Rome or to Paris they tell me, Indians, that we saw your posters all over the place. But never has happened in London. Now I hope this is not the last program, public program in England. But still one has to work very hard. All of you should think what you can do, because every body has taken things in their own style.

Like the leaders are worried, they’re working hard and they are all trying to do things and arrange things, all that. But what have you done, is the point. Now some people have had failures. Say for example some people had failures with the officials and with the government or with the TV. Doesn’t matter. We know we have failed there, but advertising, postering, talking about it, going round it, all that can be done. This one part is very good in this respect is that outside London things are working out better. But how many of you have been doing that? Very few. The same party goes here; same party has to do it all the time. Now, now this is one side of the picture, is that the advertising and all that has to be done more intensely, extensively and everybody must offer their full support and services. On the seminar side you are all very good, everything is done well. I agree. So many things are, because we have to do so many things [together?], but still you being the heart you have to be like that. What can you do? That’s one part of it.

And, second part of it I feel, is like we had in Hampstead about three hundred people and they came and what I have learnt is that when they came to the program nobody was sort of open hearted, sort of talked to them in that way as they should have. Some of you did, but not all. Most of you were just sitting down, like if they come to My house, they will just sit down with hands like this. You cannot. You cannot just do that, this is not done. Come to My house, sit down like this. Always they will come and sit down and put hands like this. Can’t do like that. That shows you are very insular, very selfish. And also in a way arrogant. You can not take My vibrations without My permission. Can you?

So, this is suggestive of one thing that what we do is to take things for granted and we, when we talk to others also, it takes time for an Englishman to get [ it?]. That’s the thing is. The quality of this is, this that in [in may not be needed?] English do not want to interfere with any one. They want to leave them alone. It’s not the bad thing. They want that why should we interfere, aggress. That’s the point. But that’s not the point now, we have to aggress. This is the thing I am giving you. That means you don’t mean that. Now what you mean is that not to interfere. See they don’t discuss religion in England. No, they are not supposed to say these things. You are not to discuss whether you are a Miss or a Mrs. You are not to say whether you have children or not. If you ask somebody a question ‘Have you got children?’ that means the most offensive thing. You are not to discuss anybody’s family. There are so many “don’ts” in this country so that we do not also sort of get up worried that this may be taken as interference. But just opposite are Americans. They will go up to the great grandfather and up to the whole progeny to find out. So interference should be forgotten; there should be no fear about them. But open your heart and talk to them openly with an open heart. But people recede back. Once they recede back others also somehow or other get frightened. Because they think you are just like them. You have to be different to attract. So amongst English Sahaja Yogis there are some who are very anxious, very much worried that you so much working it out. Some of them are really indifferent and the middle part is, those who are still trying to see how far to go, how far not to go. You have to be aggressive about it. I mean, as if now I feel, the English have aggressed so much that now they are so fed-up with the aggressiveness. That’s the thing I want you to have today. To be aggressed. Aggressiveness is the only way that you can reach these people otherwise they won’t understand. And you have to talk to them on their faces. I have seen how people talk. If you talk to them like that, they are all right unless and until you work out that way. When the people come, you talk to them in an aggressively loving manner. Do you understand that? Exuberance. Just open out your heart.

“How?”, “Come along, come along”, “Where are you going?” “Sit down”, “What do you want?”, “Come along” – one minute English will look like this. Second minute. You must understand your own character that is existing in those, these people also. The language starts – “I am afraid”. So aggressively compassionate, aggressively loving, aggressively open hearted. Non interference and all those ideas are out of date now. Finished. Now openness, no arrogance, no anger, but openness. Aggressive in a sense, like children are. Children are so aggressively innocent that you like it. I mean, they catch hold of you. They all will come and jump on your body and sleep on top of you, kissing you all over. That’s how. You have to be aggressively loving and aggressively good. “What you want?”, “You want something to eat?”, “You want this, that, that,” – they will be surprised how these English people have become like this.

So, on these two things we fail. And this anguish and this anxiety that I have is, is one of the expressions of the modern times, and also because of modern times. Because modern times are so funny that if you click it, you click it and if you don’t click it, missed. It’s so important, so precarious, is the word, so precarious, at this time if you don’t click it, it’s finished. So I find everyone is capable of doing lots of things for Sahaja Yoga. But what have we done for Sahaja Yoga? Nice seminar, you come and enjoy it. Good idea. Enjoy Sahaj Yogis. Mother is collecting them. One of the examples is that from the other countries people come. They are sick, they have problems, this, that. Immediately telephone will ring me up saying, “Mother, somebody has come with ten bhoots and fifteen babhoots”. So what?

Sahaja Yogi: “When should that person see you?”

I said, “The person or the bhoots?” And the bhoots only come. The person is missing. At least you can reduce some numbers and then send such a person.

Now I have started using the hearth of My house instead of the candle. Now will you please look after the bhoots of the people – when they come? And among you there are many like that. Your children are caught up. Some of the wives are caught up. Some of the husbands are caught up. But nobody pays attention. Carrying on with them; some times even support it. And just I see them, even staying in ashrams, I must say, some of them are really bhootish and troublesome. And you think that you have to tolerate this. No crucifixion needed any more. If somebody has a bhoot better tell that person, “you are catching”. I do not want to tell. But you know what happens to Me. My hands and My feet they all go crazy, if there is the bhootish person around. So I just run away.

In the same way it should happen to you. And you should try to correct that person but nobody much bothers. You see because you think correction will be too much. May be he might feel hurt and run away. Let him run away. Take two running jumps and go to hell. But the whole thing should be a concern and anxiety and loving way, then you will attract that person. Today I was really so full of vibrations nothing would be sucking. These horrible 20 people or so, whosoever they were, they were stopping you also from sucking me. I mean they were more powerful than you are in suction, I think.

So, now there is some thing wrong with this. What is that wrong is that, “What have we done for Sahaja Yoga” – first question. Second is, “What am I doing about myself? Where am I?” Nice to ask the question, “What’s the difference between a God-realized and a self-realized?” God-realized never catches, just knows. Now why do I feel horrible, only with Sahaja Yogis and not with non Sahaja Yogis? Even Narakasura comes before Me I can kill him. But Sahaja Yogis are inside My body. What am I to do? They are part and parcel of Me, they are not foreigners. So when they get sick I get sick Myself, because they are inside Myself. No deity has done that. No incarnation has done that job. Nobody has injected Sahaja Yogis inside their body. Has anyone done that way? You are all inside My body, part and parcel. When something goes wrong with you, it goes wrong with Me inside naturally. It’s indiscriminate you can say. But if I were not indiscriminate how many would have gone inside My body? That’s how I can cleanse you. I can look after you. I can now work out things very well. Some thing happens to someone in Australia I can work it out here because he is in My body. That’s why I get sick. I can say, “I get caught up, because I have got some bhoots within me”. So you must keep out your bhoots. This is the third point, very important, “How can I have bhoots in me? How can I have left side, or right side or any thing? I am in the body of Mother- who is the Adi Shakti. What a privilege? What a honor? So now I can’t have any bhoots within myself. It has to be something very pure.”

So try to purify yourself. Keep yourself pure. What I am saying now is for English, is for all of you. English being always the leaders for starting something good, I have to talk to them more. They have done it, because they were the ones who fought the war, won it and that’s how we started turning the tides. But now the instruments that we are going to use have to be that powerful. If Europeans among them say [Prussels?] people come up very well then I will shift My attention. We can shift heart these days. Transplant is possible. Have you heard of heart from right goes to the left or left to the right. God can do it. There are people born with the heart on the right hand side also. So, to be very precise I think that this seminar should be used for also having a inner insight. See what have we done for Sahaja Yoga. That will help. Secondly, very important is, “Are we open hearted?” Now for example we can say like this, that supposing I am in the house and the bell rings up. If there is an American, he will say, “I will get it,” and he will the first to see, to run and English would be looking this side that side, because of a kind of lethargy – that is certainly. Because that’s the idea of the negative to freeze the heart and that freezing is to be avoided. “I’ll get it. I’ll do it. I will work it out. I have to do it,” that must be told. All the English Sahaja Yogis must know that they have to be the most active people. Do you know even when we sleep the heart is beating all the time till we exist. So I have to tell you that you bear a very big responsibility to Sahaja Yoga. That’s why I have been here. I have been with you. That does not mean that you should take the things for granted. You can do a lot. You have to circulate. May be English Sahaja Yogis will have to travel a lot.

But first of all, first and foremost, open your heart. Talk openly and sweetly. You have children learn from them. How they talk, how sweetly they move. Really open your heart. Unless and until you open you heart, how can you do anything for anybody else? And that’s what one has to achieve. I am sure next program I can see Myself all over London. All right.

[Sahaja yogis do the Jaikara of Mother]

Now don’t feel guilty, I am getting terrible pain. Don’t feel guilty. Face it. Yes, it’s true. Don’t feel guilty about it. For heaven’s sake don’t feel guilty, because I am now getting a terrible pain again. All right. So, you can have some music. All right. Then I will go, because tomorrow I have to come for your Puja. So, if you don’t mind, tomorrow about 11 o’clock we start the Puja. But those who have to cancel their things, I hope they manage that tomorrow. I bless you with that. May God bless you.


We can start at 10 o’clock. We can start Puja at 10. I mean for Me it’s all right; I can even start at 9. What about you people? I can start at 6 or just now.

… What about others? You see, actually I don’t know what sort of Puja it is going to be. Because you see that it’s Vishnu Maya’s Puja, so we can have a short Puja. It’s all right. It has to be done in the night, no doubt. In the sense that [INAUDIBLE]. But doesn’t matter. We can call it a global Puja, some sort of a general Puja, you can call it. I don’t know. Vishnu Maya is some thing so powerful. All right, so let’s have some music. Then I will go back home. [INAUDIBLE]

So let’s see now. What is the contribution? Now you have seen the music that has come from Nasik. What a professional music it was. Did you hear that? Now what have you to produce? Just look at that. It was a real professional thing they have done. So we should try to find out some thing better. All right. Now let’s have some music.


Now for India tour. You see, this may be there as I told you. I didn’t know, this year or may be next year, may be the last year, I can’t say. The reason is once we have established our Ashrams in India, I don’t think I will be able to take all this. Go round all the villages and all that. Once we have Ashrams they will all come down to see us there. In India for them it’s a pilgrimage and they go out of the way to do it. So when you people are coming there, after that once we have established our Ashrams, there won’t be any of these India tours much, which you now have enjoyed very much. May be this might be the last year or next year, I don’t know, depends on as soon as we establish the Ashrams.

Now I see that people could not understand the value of Indian tour also. It does lot of good to you because its’ a country which is heavenly, I should say, as far as vibrations are concerned. In fact we are living in hell here because I see the TV and horrible things and I mean it’s really terrible. There are so many Indians who come here and they say they loose their vibrations, not only here, America and England. So the Indian tour, though apart from anything else itself, is visiting India, is still a clearer country, especially Maharashtra. Now this time to make it convenient, we have made it for three weeks. So you are there only for three weeks; two weeks around and one week around the sea shore. Now actually we’ll not have many public programs. But that is something every year. If you can not do it, at least alternate years should have been done. I find that people don’t understand the importance of Indian tour. 99% people who have been to India settled down in Sahaja Yoga. There must be something about it.

So, those who are going to, now we have made it the minimum possible. Though everybody warned us, Warren said that it’s going to be very expensive, it is ten times more. Everything was there. But whatever minimum we have got [INAUDIBLE]. Luckily also Air India, because it has so many accidents, it has gone very cheap. And, you people should know that if you have to go, pay the money in time. You are still waiting for last minute. I am going to be here for a month, I know that. But that doesn’t mean that you should take so much time. It’s like a pilgrimage and everybody should cooperate, everybody should try. I can not manage many, but quite a lot we can manage now. Because we have made two tours now, in case you cannot buy the first tour you come for the second tour. Must not be so difficult.

But if you see, I have now noticed people quite closely, and people waste their money a lot. Just the other way round Indians are. You know they keep all the money just for My tour there. Keep all their holidays, all their money for the tours. Though they do not gain so much as you people gain because it’s a new world you go. So those who are coming should decide, but those who are not coming also must think it over. It’s not difficult. It’s better. I hope this is not the last time, or may be, I can’t say. Because, once we have an Ashram then I need not go all over. The Indians will all come; from all over India they will come. People are already coming from Madras. Even if I have a small little room they come down. Because we have no place to make them stay, that’s why, otherwise you will be surprised they will be all there. You won’t be able to see or script it. There will be so many.

Before that starts you must understand that you have to work in India somehow or other. At least once. Next year or this year, you have to. But I can’t even promise next year. I really tell you. I must say that 90% next year we will have the program, because it’s becoming very difficult. Very difficult money-wise also. Anotherwise it’s becoming unwieldy. So I would request you to think it over and those who want to come should give your names. Even if you have not paid the money you can do it because I am here for this month. So those who have not yet given your names also can give your names to Gavin. We will adjust it. But I can not make it cheaper. I wanted to make it much cheaper but it is not the food that is expensive it is the traveling. Now traveling has become much cheaper.

But everything is ‘by-the-way’ – that’s the trouble is. By the way. You see, if you want to save money, and people will save money to buy Rolls Royce which costs, I do not know how much for that horrible fellow, in one year. Sahaja Yogis can’t have money to go to India. Unbelievable. At least once everybody should go, I think. Because it helps. Helps them such a lot. I myself never knew that it would help so much, but now I believe that it does help. So those who have not yet given money also can give their names to Gavin or to their leaders. We will be saving staying for seven days on the sea shore, beautiful, one of the best in the whole world, where Shri Ganesha is there. And the water of the sea comes out of His Nabhi and only His lower body you can see. The Head is the mountain itself. You can see the lights coming out of it. Only the Sahaja Yogis can see.

I don’t know about the next year also. But it should not be a thing that is a sort of a ‘by-the-way’. That’s important. So let us see what’s happening because Australians have quite a lot coming and we have to see about the others also. All right. May God bless you.

Let’s have nice music. Look at the music they have produced! The quality! Try to compete with them.


Ranu! He got his realization only last year. [Last year Jale na]. Last year this fellow got his realization. In one year, we have made copies of that music for you people to be given you as presents, only to the leaders.


You must try for perfection. Perfect it. All right? All of you should try to perfect it. Make it absolutely professional. Otherwise it is a waste. Because you see that, we can not go the public, without it being professional. You see. It has to be made professional, that level I mean.



At a meeting like this of course. But just, it’s a inner, inner feeling of vibrations. The main thing, inner feeling. You feel it inside.

Sahaja Yogi: We would like to sing two songs for you.

Shri Mataji: All right. Please.


Shri Mataji: Very good. It’s like waves. And when they come to the shore, then the shore reacts. Then there is 2 ways and 4 ways and 10 ways. It’s beautiful. Well done, thank you.


I have forgotten all My troubles. After meeting you all, I have really forgotten all the past, just enjoying the present. I have forgotten.


Beautiful, very nice, but you see some of the words I can not catch. I can feel the vibrations.

You should have more books, I think. Or they disappear, I think. You see the books should be collected back, that is the best way and should be carried again for the seminars. That would be better. [This is in some other context]

If you want I will love to hear. It’s a very good one. You should take a fast number.


Chris you have sent Me some very beautiful poems. Have you brought them with you, from Bristol? Where is he? Where is Chris Wekfield? You sent Me? You know I told them it was Chris Wekfield who wrote. But they said, “No, this Chris Wekfield is not a writer, another Chris is the writer.” But I tell you there is a poet. Poets are not writers that’s trouble. Very much .But what about them? Where are they? You haven’t brought? Oh! I will bring them tomorrow, I think. Beautiful! And he is a real poet, real poet, seeking, poetry is so great.

You see now I will tell you one thing about poetry. In the poetry, poetry means there has to be magic in the words. When you say something it must have a magic. If there is no magic then it’s not poetry. Then the second thing is that it’s precise, it has to be precise. It has to be small sentences. Like many propositions and all that are to be dropped out. Adjectives to be dropped, but you are allowed. So many adverbs can be dropped out. But mainly what you can drop out are articles, absolutely.

Third is that it must have Rasa. Rasa means the essence. It must have the essence. And the essence are according to Indian science are nine types. Must have an essence. Now this is the essence today is the Bhakti. When you are singing of Bhakti and devotion then you have to use words – extremely gentle words, gentle words, beautiful words, words that are delicate, the words that express devotion through humility, words of humility.

Now, what I see now with your compositions. They are two types. One is addressed to others and one addressed to Me. In the others, you have addressed some to the other people – who are not Sahaja Yogis; some your own Sahaja Yogis together and some are addressed to Me. So there are three types of compositions you have done. Now when you are addressing to others, it need not be that delicate. And as it is, “come and see”, “listen”, “look” – this is what you should do. In a general way they wouldn’t understand. So you have to use words which are a sort of forcing them, pushing into it. ‘What are you doing?’ This is the poem same way written down and a very good poem, no doubt. But in this poem whatever you have written, this one is good, nice and everything fine, but what I find is still a little bit diplomacy.

Now, if it is say how many of you want to be saved today. They say all of us. How do you count? How do you find out? So, the question should be asked the way in really [reality?], in totality, actually, honestly. Put these adjectives in between so that then people understand honestly. Are we honest? They will all say, “We all want to be.” They are all seekers. You are seekers. We are seekers. Why should we run after Mataji? All right. So honestly and all those things sort of, you see, make it look more objective. You fix them. You have to hem them up otherwise they will slip out. In whatever you sing it should be such that they are pushed into a point they have no escapes left. So when you write now, next time, its’ going to be a poetry, no doubt but correct it, when you address to others, see that they have no escape. That they can not budge out. All right, Gregoire. You are a scholar so I must ask your permission.

Now second one is, when we are singing among ourselves. Now the thing that is joy, joy is very good one. But we are not addressing to folk people, that’s the point. We are addressing to intellectuals. So that’s a good one between ourselves when we sing. We have to adjust to the intellectuals, so we can challenge relatively. “What have they got? With the intellect what did I get? With this, what did I get? All these barren things, useless things, good for nothing, not a single friend,” and then come down, “What I got in Sahaja Yoga?” This relative description should be given. So, I hope, some of you will write poetry on that.

Now third one is what Wekfield has done. Is My description and devotion come out very well? I must say. I think that’s the highest, one can do. That’s the best but still we need all this, we have to have, otherwise we can not manage. So that’s a part of it. But the essence of it, the praise, where many great poets, many great writers, many great saints and incarnations have aspired to sing the praise of the Mother. Great aspirations. Like Markandeya did that. Today also we read it after fourteen thousand years. Then Adi Shankaracharya did that. Poetry of that level should come out. I would request you to read those poems, poetry of those people to compose such high class poetry. Not a word can be changed, not to be added and that’s how we try to perfect it. Try to perfect it. When you have written it down, sit down, think over it again. Try to bring in better words. Try to put better words, so you actually make it a perfect poetry, a perfect setting, that’s it. But a poet is a poet, born poet. It’s a thing that is born and even after Sahaja Yoga many people suddenly become poets.

Like Damle, they used to tease, he was an engineer, never used to write but wrote very well, very beautiful. His poems are very good. Even now I think he is very good. But there is another fellow Khade who did beautiful writing. I don’t know where are his poems lost, but they are somewhere. And such tremendous things he has written, I was amazed. But says I don’t write, but Saraswati is writing in me. So for that you see the spontaneity is all right, but you have to have the technique to write. The technique must be there, the spontaneity I will look after. So you also have to develop a little bit of technique. How to write it up? In these three categories you write up differently. So when you write about your Mother, you have to be absolutely sure, absolutely one and absolutely surrendered. So the whole thing can be an epic. Absolutely the topmost thing that one can do in poetry is to write the praise of the Mother. That’s the highest. So all the poetry is very nice, comes out of very generous heart and also very great hearts. But it has to have a technique. The technique is to be little bit understood in a Divine way. That, what makes it a thing that throbs in your heart. So that you will see yourself that will throb in your heart. If you are detached about it you will do it. You do it very well. I was so happy about Chris’s. I told them, it is Chris Wekfield who has written to Me. They thought that it is Chris [INAUDIBLE] from Bristol. I said all right, let me ask first of all with Chris from Bristol. Beautiful poetry, beautifully done. All right. So best of luck to you for all these good poems and poetries that you have done. And, all these pieces are extremely beautiful, but we have to perfect it. Make it better and better and in tune with Divine vibrations. We should see vibrations also. What gives you the best vibrations?

Tunes could be simple, could be complicated, could be magical, could be any thing. But the poetry must not narrate, but create magic. Sanskrit it is said any thing there is Chamatkar and there is magic. Chamatkar is the light of the magic. Means there is light of the magic then we should call it poetry. Rasatmaka wakyam kavyam. When there is Rasa then there is Kavya, there is poetry, otherwise no, without Rasa there is no poetry.Now this is the part where composer is concerned.

Now for the part of the present work is to sing. To sing from your heart, knowing, before whom you are sitting. From your heart. You are not singing for yourself, you are singing for Me, singing for the whole universe. Say it from your heart, knowing that I am before you, understanding. Secondly you must have the technique of singing it. It’s very important. All these techniques are built-in through tradition; understanding. Whatever is not proper is thrown away. It should not be that, one line flows long and another line go short. No. There should be a proper technique for how to do it. See, like a free verse business is no good for Sahaja Yoga. So that technique you have to know, how to sing it with that the music. But the drum is an essential part of every music. Because that is the part where anahata is played. So in sound, drum has to be there. When you are singing there has to be drum as well as other accompaniments. Any accompaniments you have, but drum is an essential part, that has to be there. And the whole thing should be on a rhythmic understanding. That is you have seen how Indians have rhythmic understanding. You see, they cut it into three halves, four halves and they bring it back. And, how they cut it, how they go off beat, it’s really too much. But you can compose to a great extent on those lines and that technique has to come properly understood. Like singing in parts itself is a big technique and one has to understand how you do it.

But there are so many other things which you have is [tremor? Or is it ‘Tremolo’?], you have yodeling; I do not know if you have used those things or not at all but you should use it. And there are so many things you have enjoyed, all of these things you should use, which helps a lot in music. I don’t know much about western music. Whatever I know, and these things if you use it will help a lot to bring out the music in it’s proper way. And I don’t know, if you have any soprano singers also. And the way they sing, beautifully. You have to have some of them. So, in between the soprano singers, can sing a tune but should be made a proper, sensible, organized thing. Because to the public, they can’t understand this. And another could be hippy style of music, I don’t mind even that. It’s all right. But if it is sung with the heart, with the devotion, like a folklore. It will be very good. But should be so fast and so accurate and so clear cut that people should feel this is something so great. So you can have all varieties. You can have classical, Sahaja style, you can have this yodeling style and then you can have, you have many styles, you can sing like that.

And we too have [many styles?], like for the tapes you have heard now. We have two tapes which are absolutely folk. I don’t know if you have noticed this, very fast number, the first one is. And the first one is about how abstract, without form, the formless has become, has appeared now into form. The first one. It’s such a fast number. So I hope you have heard it. Have you heard it clearly? I would like to hear it once again. Just play the first one – Nirguni Nirguni, is without any this thing.