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TRANSCRIPT OF TALK TO WESTERN LEADERS RAHURI JANUARY 12, 1986
Shri Mataji: We have now got the land at Vaitarna, which is a school land. It is a big land, forty-two acres, [inaudible]. It is a land with natural slopes and things, you have seen it. The first problem is would you like Me to bring it one level or better keep it natural.
Shri Mataji: Natural.
A leader: In keeping with your whole philosophy Mother, it should be as natural as possible.
Shri Mataji: I think to the first point, [inaudible/comfortable] way – when you plan it out, I thought, we should have a circular road. One circular road. If you [inaudible], a circular road from which a car can go. Inside should be all natural.
A leader: A perimeter road.
Shri Mataji: That would be better, like a bandhan.
Now another thing is that, a big problem. It could be a big problem with the [inaudible/disciplines]. Should we have the houses – modern, or ethnic or traditional?
A leader: [Inaudible/probably difference between traditional and ethnic].
Shri Mataji: Traditional would be rather elaborately done, like the French (?), which are city. And the ethnic would be like stone walls and roofs, more hut like?
A leader: City?
A leader: More hut like.
Shri Mataji: More hut like?
A leader: Mother, the rainfall in that area.
Shri Mataji: For the rainfall, that is the best. See, all styles develop according to the problems that they have, always. [Inaudible], it is an ethnic style, [inaudible] wonderful. We can have a stone. Stone is very easily available, cheaply. Absolutely. But it is black.
A leader: Do they mortar the stone here?
Shri Mataji: No. I thought we may want to bring the [inaudible/wavy ones?]. But if you paint the stones, with some light shade, a very light shade with a red border on the polish, it would be very interesting for the children, different shades. For children’s sake, I think that colour would be a bit boring.
I mean, you people do not like painting very much. But for children, it is a good idea. Because children like to see many colours. And bright colours. I think that they would like to have. From the children’s point of view.
A leader: What if we painted the joints between the stones?
Shri Mataji: Joint or paint? How we get – see there is a kind of clay we get. So they put on the stones, adhering to each other in that way. But at the edge of it, they put a pointer(?).
A leader: I see.
Shri Mataji: And on that pointer, they put a colour; white or red or anything.
The third choice is like – I wish you had seen this university. How many of you have seen the university?
A leader: Which (inaudible/ Mahatma PK?].
Shri Mataji: Rahuri University. That is done in the same way. But that is modern. And we have [inaudible] like this, where these are square. But they say people are very unhappy about it – they this is Mohenjo Daro, you have brought it here. It was excavated about five thousand years back in India, they say you have brought it here. They say at least you could have made it [inaudible].
But another thing we can do is to have these natural stones and can grow some green on them. You see, that could be better.
Leaders: Very appropriate. Natural. And Mother Earth and all that. We could have some green creeper going and green combs.
Shri Mataji: All green creeper falling from one side. And it grows very fast. In rains, it grows.
Leaders: Yes. That is a great idea.
Shri Mataji: What we can do also, is a combination of some colourful places and some like that.
A leader: Also the black stone would absorb the heat. If we painted a colour, it reflects the heat.
Shri Mataji: That is the point. That is the point. I thought that we are going to paint the roof. We are going to paint the roof with different colours. Not the stones. Because stones are [inaudible]. But stones keep the house extremely cool. Because the walls are so big, bigger size. You see inside is the mud. It is not an insulator.
The mud is inside, and all the stones are stuck to the mud. And only from the outside, it is polished. As long as the top of it is properly covered, goes on for years together. You have seen My family staying here. This house is also [inaudible]; done with the same style. Now it is falling off because is there to look after, for thousands of years.
So that is one thing that we have decided there. So we have decided that it is on the ethnic style – you write it down what we have. Then we have the cover, what we call it – some building covered with colours and some building covered with leaves. That should also be left [inaudible].
Leader: The natural way. The tile, Mother? Or another material for the roofs?
Shri Mataji: Beg pardon?
Leader: The tile or another material for the roofs?
Shri Mataji: No, what they do, you see is to be on the safe side. Instead of putting the roof and all that which requires a lot of repairs; in that, they suggested that we can put a thin cement thing and on top, we can put these tiles. So that the tiles are just – adhere to that. They put some adhesive, or maybe cement, which I do not know a thing about. So it is a permanent thing.
There is another thing that may [inaudible], which is very interesting. That is to – they make a double-storey, so the low portion is covered with something. Like this kind, I mean – not this style is [inaudible/best here]. But they put these, what do you call it?
Shri Mataji: Rafters. Rafters. And on the rafters, they put a kind of another roof. Which is straightforward.
Leader: A [inaudible/porch roof] underneath the?
Shri Mataji: No, no, no, a real roof like that. And on top, you see, like a hut.
Leader: Very simple.
Shri Mataji: On top like a hut. Built of like straw.
Shri Mataji: So on top is the thatch. And down below – so the thatched roof gives you air, everything. You can sit up for the decoration, it opens up.
Leader: Now the thatched part cools down very quickly.
Shri Mataji: Yes that is why that is what they say. But the main thing will be the laying of this.
Shri Mataji: Ceiling. That also, they have so many alternates in this country. You know it is full of alternates. One is rafters. Second is cement. The third is, they have a brick-laying thing called RBC. Where brick and [inaudible]. And the fourth one is.
Shri Mataji: Tiles is on top. On this wall, the wall they used. Fourth is coming to me. Ha, they said that they put a kind of an L shaped bars – what do you call them?
Leaders: Angle. Angle bars.
Shri Mataji: And all the angles they put the stone. That is very fast. And you can paint the angle any colour you want. I mean it looks very nice.
Leader: Cement and tiles on top of it could be steady. Secondly, I think it could be good. But it could be quite a steady thing. I do not know.
Shri Mataji: Steady. See this will be quite steady also. Because this would be double storey. See the steadiness is with the first floor. And on top of it, you can have a, to give it a show, like a kind of a, another stone. Like a hut on top of that.
Leader: This is known to be angled(?) under the floor of the.
Shri Mataji: Yes. Under the roof, the roof of the first floor.
Leader: That is right.
Shri Mataji: And on top of that, you have this hut-like structure.
Leaders: Hut like construction.
Shri Mataji: So that the.
Leader: Two storeys?
Shri Mataji: Two storeys. That is the.
Leader: Very nice, Mother.
Shri Mataji: And the upper storey would be open.
Leader: Beautiful. For meditation.
Shri Mataji: Meditation, for sleeping in the summertime. Or playing some games or something like that. That sort of a thing. You can make it into a garden-like place. On top.
Leader: Very good insulation.
Shri Mataji: It can be very interesting. [Inaudible]. I mean, it is a very unique thing that they do in India. Because you do not have straw. Such thick stone, on top. You see, such thick. And so cheap you cannot imagine.
I mean, you can grow your straw there just before building. By the time you come to the straw pile, it is ready there. It is up, it is absolutely free.
Leader: In America, they are even using earth, Mother. They are even using earth over the roofs, and, building the houses down so that it acts as an insulator.
Shri Mataji: Yes. Earth we use quite a lot. But in this case, side [inaudible] and at the top, we can use. As long as it is covered nicely. Comes out, out of the building. Say hold/whole building from there. The top floor. That would look nice.
Leader: Sort of an awning.
Shri Mataji: Awning.
Leader: Hanging over. Ewes.
Shri Mataji: Hanging over. Hanging over.
Leader: Also Mother, opening vents can be placed to facilitate cooling. In the floor and opening vents can be placed.
Shri Mataji: It will be completely open.
Leader: ..for natural movement.
Shri Mataji: It will be completely open. It will be completely open from the sides. Only the top will be covered.
Leader: Like a double [inaudible].
Shri Mataji: Yes, double. Like a double [inaudible].
Leader: Also, the hang off the roof stops the sun shining on the walls and heating the walls.
Shri Mataji: Yes, very much.
Leader: The ground floor would be extremely cool, because of the double insulation.
Shri Mataji: Absolutely.
Leader: The first floor would be ventilated, [inaudible].
Shri Mataji: In the evening, you can use the first floor. In the daytime the ground floor. That is fine.
A leader: And there is a certain principle applied in Maharashtra for ventilating the ground floor. It is not just windows. But they have certain holes placed in the walls.
Another leader: That is what I was saying. They have a special passage.
Shri Mataji: They make it at a height. At a height so that the hot air comes and goes.
A leader: They put them high and low so that air can get out and cool air can come in.
Shri Mataji: They are very, I mean – you see, they are living with their atmosphere. They are living with their surroundings. They have not been sort of,
A leader: Bothered?
Shri Mataji: Fighting. You see.
A leader: Living with the elements.
Shri Mataji: Adjusting that.
A leader: Integration.
Shri Mataji: So they have not gone into, they have not shot off – create this, create that. Whatever is available, they are satisfied.
[Inaudible side conversation about ventilation].
Shri Mataji: They can open it there. The children from there want to see Me and when they pulled the curtain, they were very unhappy, and they started throwing [inaudible] back.
[Laughter, inaudible side conversation].
Shri Mataji: Kind of naughtiness is good.
Now, this is regarding the house. Now regarding the land. The problem is, should we have the land at a central place or should we have it at a natural place. Whatever is available there.
Leader: Natural would be nice.
Leader: There is a certain idea to build a small village. There should be maybe one or two centre points where we can gather. Maybe if we want to be together, all village maybe some central hut or.
Leader: Like a village square.
Shri Mataji: Then what we can do, this circular road can be divided into four parts.
Leader: That is very [inaudible].
Shri Mataji: And the rest of it – it is like an integration you see, the planning like that. And the rest of it is triangles that are made. We can make them natural. And we can name them. That would be nice.
Leader: Different quarters.
Shri Mataji: Different forks(?). But not too much.
Leader: Two crossroads.
Shri Mataji: Crossroads. Like a swastika.
Shri Mataji: Shri Mataji. So that is how you think. And in the centre, we should have the meeting halls. Now, this is such a big land. Forty-two acres of land. It is too big a land for things [inaudible]. Forty-two acres. Cannot imagine. I mean, you cannot walk. You have to use some sort of vehicle.
You see, what we can do is, we can have one place, school for the children. One part, maybe half of it, you see. And half of it there can be maybe an alternate. Like, we can have a school for adults, who want to come here and learn Sahaja Yoga, crafts and arts. Do you think it is a good idea? Arts, crafts, music, this, that, I had planned.
Leaders: Would you like to centralise the schools and the living of the village? Or would be completely separate.
Shri Mataji: The schools are going to be providing, actually, complete maintenance of that place. And whatever we are going to use for children who are poor. So we will look after certain schools which will be under our guidance. Where the children are having nothing actually. So this school will subsidise those schools. And we will send proper them teachers. So this will spread through poorer schools.
But of course, in these schools, if we have some boy who is very talented, who has lots of talent and special thing; come in, who cannot afford. So schools will not be expensive, but it would be much less than any public school in India. It would not be also a free school. Because, these schools – we have written down, what we have in that. I do not know, will you read out actually, what I have. Actually better read out. That is a very good piece of literature that your Mother has created.
Leader: This is the “Aims and Objectives of the Sahaja International School, Vaitarna”.
“After visiting international schools like those in Switzerland and public schools like those in England, it becomes clear that the emphasis is on creating people who would be successful in the material sense and who will dominate through sharpness of intellect. But there is no interest in the quality of life for future generations or betterment of those who are in charge of human affairs. Today’s problems come out of such brains which believe in material development alone. As a result of this, we have societies which are dominated by machines as money.
At the time of Hitler, it was physical dominance. Now it is economic dominance. Ruining the beauty of human beings and a sense of dignity. Machines are for us, we are not for machines. So there should be a co-relation between machine production and the human contribution. The arts and crafts must be there to build up a balanced personality within human beings.
This balance is important to bring about the ascent to the higher life, the beauty of heaven.
With these noble visions, we are endeavouring to build a school in the remote beautiful land, near the river Vaitarna, in the Thane district about seventy-five miles from Bombay. The triangular piece of land which is being bought is surrounded by hills and forests and is bounded by the Vaitarna river, another river and a brook. The need is felt all over the world, highly sensitive children of every country and children who require special attention should not be forced into a life of modern distraction, drugs and so on. In the ethnic atmosphere of this land, we would like to establish a place for them.
To being with, we have planned for two hundred. But if there is money available, this will be increased to two thousand. As it is a charitable trust, whatever profits from the school will go towards free schools in the villages of various countries for the education of the poorer classes. At the moment we have schools recognised by their governments running in Melbourne, Australia, and at Danai(?) near Geneva in Switzerland and at Dharamshala in Delhi, India. There are proposals for schools at Isle of Wright, United Kingdom and Perth, Australia. Profits from these schools are already being used to help buy plots for other schools all around the world.
Apart from land at Vaitarna we already have bought land for free schools in a number of Indian villages. Students who have excellent talents, special talents but who cannot pay will attend these schools free. Moreover, the school will be staffed by teachers who will be selected from highly qualified and talented, compassionate, visionaries. They would be very self-disciplined and compassionately sensitive people so that the students can absorb from them higher values, practices and precepts.
The students will be away from areas of modern experimentation, where they can mature into the right systems, into self-respect and respect for others. Thus they will develop a balanced personality and become the leaders of the new age, who will guide the destiny of humanity into a state of grace. One of the objects is to undertake a study of all the religions to show that the essences of all religions are the same. There is oneness of thought amongst all the philosophers of ancient times who talked about self-realisation. And to establish integration of all the methods of achieving. The aim will be to put the attention of all the students towards the spiritual life of sharing, of tolerance, peaceful co-existence and the mutual solving of problems.
A deeper insight would be gained through a meditative approach. All religions would be respected, all ideologies would be studied with detachment, reaching a point of limit.”
Jai Shri Mataji.
Leaders: Jai Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: I mean, I am really surprised at Myself. (Laughter). You will be surprised I never studied the English language as such, never.
Leader: But not surprised Mother. (Laughter). You only created it. (Laughter).
Leader: Shri Mataji, we speak of the size of the land. And while we speak of that and the emphasis on the work of the artisans and the practical aspects of [inaudible], one wonders whether a portion of the land couldn’t become a village in its own right? That is a village which has living in it, practical and practising artisans from all of the ethnic areas that we want to.
Shri Mataji: That could be a problem for us. See, the trouble is that, that land is owned by us. All right? [Inaudible]. Now, this kind of thing should be away from children. I want to keep them away from all kinds of influences. Now if you have any kind of influence on them. Say, if you think our ethnic groups, builders are away from influences, that is not so. They have some very funny influences. [Inaudible]. It shows, certainly.
Like we have now two girls marriage from India. Surprisingly they have become very funny. The reason is, they were brought up with complete discipline, this, that. And suddenly they were exposed. Now they are misbehaving. So it is a risky game. I would say that we will now be establishing villages and this and that, one by one. Taking up a village as it is, we are working on that. But basically, we have to have a place which will generate money also.
We have no way of generating money because Sahaja Yoga does not take money. So the best thing would be that first, we have this school. As a result of the profit of the school, we can start developing certain particular schools, in the area. Through the schools then we can [inaudible], by which they become citizens. It is a little gradual process. And they start developing those ideas and ideologies. And work it out in that way.
First of all, in India, people are just the opposite of Western people. They will never leave their houses whatever it is. It might be a dilapidated house, [inaudible] nobody will come out and settle outside. Nobody would. Even if you tell villagers to come, they will go back to their village. Even if they come, they will just come for making money and go back. They are very attached to their homes, places, [inaudible].
So it is not going to work out. To work it out what we have to do – these boys when we have trained, educated them, then they will have to go around villages. After they have done their – we might get their Senior Cambridge, or they might get a thing like matriculation. My idea is to give them a one year – sort of a probation mode before they enter into college life. Go and work in some village. So they go and stay in particular villages and they get a certificate from there.
Or we will, we can also in our curriculum develop a thing like that. That these boys say from the seventh class, when they are a little grown-up – or the eight class, we can give them a curriculum. That every Saturday or so, they can go to a village, study. But that is much better than bringing a village. That is my own idea is, that they should go.
You see, the missionaries in India did that. When they were creating children, they used to send them to villages and preach them. Like I was in a medical college first of all. [Inaudible] and they said, you have to go. Because I was getting a scholarship you see. I was getting a scholarship because I was a scholar. But still, those who were getting scholarship had to go and preach Christianity. So I said nothing doing, you take back your scholarship; I do not care.
And where this particular incident took place, you see; the girls, poor things, were forced to go and preach the villages. And they were all stoned, came back bruised, all that. And their parents raised a big hue and cry about- why don’t you let missionary boys do it, why do you send these young girls? So it all happened.
But what I am saying is, this is how it worked out. So we can work it out in the neighbouring villages; we can tell them. Then when we have these other schools also. But let us concentrate on making a quality product of students here. So I would like to keep them out. What you can do, if you want – my own opinion was to get people from foreign countries who would like to learn Indian craft. Because we have lost you see, in the West, people have lost their deftness. They cannot do any work like that. So those people who want to learn can come and learn here – even music, arts. I mean we have so many like this, students who can make, make things out of glass. So many students we have like that. So whatever we have lost we can gain back here. So we can have a half school like that where you can learn. I was thinking about twenty-one arts and crafts which are very useful and very helpful.
But if you people agree, we can have half of the land donated for this school. We can call it a school, you see, because.
Leader: And it will be income generated.
Shri Mataji: Of course. Income generated.
Leader: Simple words, Mother.
Shri Mataji: Now, how to allocate that income is a different thing. How to use is a different point. How to use these two groups is a different point. But just now, we should not have any village thing brought there, is not the point. You see, you cannot control it. Supposing one of them wants to break, you cannot say no. He will say it is my freedom. On the contrary, if you bring people from outside, you can think where we can adjust them. We can work it out.
I have plans on that line, okay? But that will mature when we are [inaudible/big enough] to go round. Because we will need teachers who have to be paid. Who have to be paid They cannot be all free, you. They have to be paid, we have to pay for food and [inaudible/life status]. So it has to be a place which will be income-oriented. And that also will be quality one, where we have people to build of that kind.
Leader: Shri Mataji? In this way, it can be very possible that in the same town there are people who like to follow some courses and to generate money. At the same time, give some teaching. So that at the same time.
Shri Mataji: So that, they can compensate. Now, as your point is, with that, the third thing that we will cover. Now we have, we have accepted that we have something like that. So the third point is with that. Is to have another school, not there, little far away, for Indians. Where they can learn things like say, lathe work, plumbing – we are hopelessly bad, electrical things – we are hopelessly bad. We are very bad at [inaudible] things.
Also certain know-hows we have to get from you people. Like we do not know how to make gums.
Shri Mataji: Gums.
Shri Mataji: Glue. You see, we have so much gum in this country, but we do not know how to convert it into [inaudible]. We do not know; I mean so many things we do not know. Like I will tell you, you can help us a lot by teaching us these things, know-how from there. You see now, for example, molasses. They have been telling us, that give us something, know-how on how to convert these molasses into something sensible.
Shri Mataji: Bagasse. Bagasse also. So all these things can be developed, you see, in that area. We can find out how many things we can do for the villagers. So we can have a training centre there. So that these people can go and work out in the villages. Already, already. Now, this school business is over, then I will tell you what already I have done.
So, if you agree, half of the land can be used for their education. We can also teach them Sanskrit. Teach them languages, teach them music. We have now one school only. And that is now on the border of Pakistan. That is Shanti Niketan. Indian dances, Indian music, there are so many things which are still [inaudible]. Even painting, even [inaudible], so many things are there. We can think of weaving. Weaving is so common, and we can do it. Anything by which we can get fruits of labour. Now you may say that we have so many artists in this country, we have so many things in this country.
But what I discussed we people is that nobody gets anything out of it because it is so [inaudible] to channelize. That the whole money goes to bribery and corruption. So if you have some sort of a channel for getting all their things with us and we can set up a shop for them. Then we can give them back as much as their trouble. But this channelizing through this corrupt mechanism which we have in this country. You have to have another channel by which you directly help them.
Leader: Even Khadi (Khadi Udyog, a government-owned organisation in India for promoting khadi products) is not without their problems.
Shri Mataji: I mean, a horrid thing that Khadi is. Horrid. Very corrupt. [Inaudible]. I was on the Khadi board. I just gave it up. Cannot work it out. Such a sick country as far as corruption is concerned. So we can help the government, we can help everyone with that. And we can work it out.
It is a funny country, you see. For example, we have [inaudible] money, so the government gives the money. They will never do; keep the money in the bank. It will never be done. How can you develop a country like that? Now the World Bank will give you money; the World Bank will give you money for something. The money goes back to Switzerland. Comes from Switzerland and goes back to Switzerland. From this side, it comes and goes back the other way. How will you develop this country?
So you have to make a channel later, of honest, good people who will do this job without eating the money. Here people do not eat food, they eat money. You ask anyone, “What is happening – Why Vaitarna land we have not got?” – “They want so much money”. For what? They have to eat the money. In Marathi, they say “paise khane” means “eating the money”. (Laughing) That is why their Nabhis are so bad.
So this is, we have to do all these things later on. If you to help corruption of this country to go. You see, otherwise, it is such a holy land, such a good place. Because of corruption, it is ruined. That is the only thing you have to do if you really want to help this country and its saintliness, it just to deal with this corruption point. And that is quite simple, not difficult. If you can find people who are honest, who will work it out properly, you can manage it. But that is at a later stage.
Just now, for the time being, to get this land, we spent three years. Because I would not give any bribe. Three years already we spent.
Leader: It is a slow process.
Shri Mataji: It is a slow process because, bribery and corruption. If I agreed to give bribes, you see, get some place without bribery. So I said [inaudible].
Leader: Century. Centuries, Mother. Centuries. For bribery.
Shri Mataji: Because, holy place as you say, has to be holy. Now that is one thing – we have one school and we have a school for arts and crafts. For this school how would we have to move? Should we get these two hundred children immediately? And start it in a big way? Or should we start with small children – a little fewer? It is not difficult to get two hundred, or even two thousand.
Leader: What I have experienced in Melbourne, we started with a group of children from a young age to older age at the start.
Shri Mataji: That should be the best. I think that should be the best. So the whole school should be started. Let us start with [inaudible] children. So that we need your services Ray, or somebody’s services like that to guide us. What is needed for a school to be built? For a school with two thousand children. Who will stay there, live there, [inaudible]? We will, of course, get some experienced teachers from here and start.
And we will have to get the estimate for how much money we will have to spend on that. And how we can recover. But to begin with, what we have to do; different countries we have to advertise. Saying such and such school has been established. Giving the photograph or we will send you brochures. So that when people apply we can give them brochures. And they send their applications on the application form. And sort them out. And see which children are deserving.
The whole thing has to be worked out. And which I am going to work out, seriously, sitting down – how we are going to provide them, what things are needed, everything needs to be [inaudible/chased], in a proper school way. And what will be the different things we have to [inaudible/think].
Now for, if you go like the Gandhiji’s basic education systems – in that the children are taught cooking, looking after cattle, [inaudible] as well, apart from their education. So in it, what they used to do is, say like – cows were kept in the school area. And they were milked in the school area. And that milk was provided for the children. Drink the milk, and make the curd, make everything out of that. So we have to buy cows, and the cows will stay here. We have to milk them and for that, we can utilise [inaudible] for that.
Now, normally people recommend cow’s milk in India because it is very helpful, it is good. So we have cows here. Now we must have Indian cows here I think. So we give them say, vibrated water to drink, they can give a lot of milk. So that is how we will have cows and [inaudible] and all. Now, should we do some ploughing also? Because of such big land.
Leaders (together): To grow? Yes, Mother. Raise the children…Gum, sugarcane.
Shri Mataji: Some crops. Sugarcane we need not because that occupies.
Leader: Vegetables? Flowers?
Shri Mataji: Vegetables, flower.
Leader: Fruit supply for the school? A lot of that can be grown.
Another leader: Rice?
Shri Mataji: Rice we can grow.
Leader: And a little bit of food we can grow for sale outside.
Another leader: So that we could be completely autonomous.
Another leader: Jam could be sold.
Shri Mataji: It is a big problem, shopping. We would be autonomous. As long as, see, children would be paying for that all right. And we would be producing. And we would be consuming ourself. So we save money. Instead of getting vegetable from outside, we have our own vegetable.
Leader: Complete the circle.
Shri Mataji: It will be all there. And the money that they pay for their food will be supplied from us. To have shop and – would be rather – but later on, you see, my own idea is a little [inaudible], more progressive than [inaudible]. My own idea is that when this school is successful, this another place that we have, for foreigners to come and learn arts and crafts can be [inaudible] and we can start a university. So these students can go to that and pass from there.
Leader: From deftness of the hand to deftness of the world.
Shri Mataji: So that when they go out, they do not have to go to some another university.
Leader: Because of its copy (?).
Shri Mataji (laughing): All Indians cheat.
Leader: From childhood days to the top of the university, is a headache. So we need everything, Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: Because land is handed off. So for university, we can have university and what do you call it – professional education – or?
Shri Mataji: Vocational or, the crafts one.
Shri Mataji: Vocational school as well as professional course we should have. We can develop it like that and that is how we can work it out. And it can fit in the curriculum of the universities.
Now, as long as we do not take any help at all from the government, we are not going to be bothered by the government. [Inaudible]. So best is not to go to the government for anything. Again three years we will have to wait to get a sanction – to buy a cow.
Leader: So the money, which is now collected, is it all with us?
Shri Mataji: We have already collected, now you have brought some money, this time whatever money was given, all that is piled up. With the Life Eternal Trust here, which I can withdraw. Thus when we need your money also, we will withdraw. For that, I have to establish a proper, what you call, committee. Which has to deal with the Reserve Bank. When you bring your foreign exchange, you see we have to report it properly, and everything. I mean I do not want to do anything legal and nonsensical, with this little time on our hands. So that is what it will get it and work it out.
So now the school part is the most important for [inaudible/all of us]. Now for Indian projects we have, I have found out a very good solution. There are many missionaries who have left lots of properties [inaudible]. And their properties are just wasted and lying. We have to buy.
Leader: Like, on the river?
Shri Mataji: Everywhere. In Rahuri.
Shri Mataji: There is a school here available for us, free. We can run it if we like, [inaudible]. There is one in Basole(?), which I can ask someone, I think we can work it out. So we can run a school like this here, for the villagers. So these big [inaudible/spaces] which are left around by the missionaries, we are also charitable. So we can save it. But they do not know what to do with it. They will just sell to another person to build a house here. So we can buy it. Left by some Englishman. And that, we try to buy as many as possible, such lands here.
In case, I mean if you like it, you can use it and sell it off if you want to. But just now, I think the best way is to invest money in the lands. So what my question is – in Pune for example, there are lands available like that. Should we buy something there? In the city?
Leaders: Very good.
Shri Mataji: And one, I would like to buy in a far-off place, near the river, called Vitthalwadi. You have been to that mandir – Vitthal Mandir? Last?
Leader: Where the manifestation of the [inaudible/phala] outside of Pune? Yes.
Shri Mataji: Beautiful.
Leader: That is a lovely place.
Shri Mataji: That there, you remember that?
Leader: Few people went, three years ago. Vitthalwadi.
Another leader: Yes.
Another leader: There is a temple there. We all [inaudible/lined] in the temple.
Shri Mataji: Yes, that’s it. That’s it.
Leader: We sang songs to you.
Shri Mataji: Yes. And the river is flowing along.
Leader: An old man was doing his pilgrimage too. Vitthala temple in Pandharpur. And he came from the North, he slept by the river, this manifestation.
Shri Mataji: So you have seen.
Leader: It has black soil.
Shri Mataji: It has got black soil which has got, what you call.. tita..tita.
Leader: Sedimentary rather than volcanic.
Shri Mataji: Titanum.
Another leader: I cannot imagine a place more beautiful than the place we have been, Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: It is more beautiful. I think what the difference is because it has got lots of trees.
Shri Mataji: You can sit there under a tree and the water will come to you.
Leader: Let us buy it, Mother, now. (Laughter).
Leader: Shri Mataji, it is pure refinement, what you say, rafinmore (Italian?), exquisite – I do not know the name.
Shri Mataji: Really, Ganpatipule was such a great thing. And this one was one acre free, the gentleman has given Me. He is so anxious to give Me. He said, “I was waiting for you Mother, to come here sometime and give this and that”. Begging of Me, “At least have a look at that”. I said, “I am coming, I am coming”. He thought I will not accept it. “Accepted it?”. I said, “Yes, Yes, I will accept it”. (Laughter). Such generous people there, I tell you.
Leader: So great.
Leader: The only problem is that lotus-eater bhuts might like it too.
Shri Mataji: No there they cannot. So what? See, it is quite a hot place. If you do not protect yourself, Ganpatipule could be very dangerous. Very hot, straightforward sun. You have to be careful. You see, they were all surprised, the way you were sitting in the sun. And they came and told Me, informed Me, please tell them not to sit in the sun. I said, let them burn themselves. Otherwise, they will not listen, I have told them a hundred times.
And I have told them so many times, do not sit in the sun. This is not your sun, this is our sun, it is a horrid one. Very sharp sun. Early in the morning is all right. Or in the evening. But daytime. At two o clock also they were sitting in the sun. I was quite worried and the way they suffered is horrible.
Leader: Only it’s an absolutely, I think Shri Mataji, tremendous miracle, how these people healed. I mean, it was a blessing. Out of this, they could see your powers.
Shri Mataji: Afterwards, I just put my hand and they started feeling better.
Leader: Blisters started disappearing under the cotton wool by that.
Shri Mataji: Now, it is all right. It will develop, under your skin it has to develop, then it should be cleaned up.
Leader: No, I remember you with the cotton wool with repairing [inaudible].
Shri Mataji: That one was repairing that, yes. Just in the cotton wool, it was repairing.
Leader: But just like a shaving cream under a razor, it was disappearing.
Shri Mataji: Yes, yes it was happening. Actually, it was happening. Yes. It is the chilling effect. That is simple. Absolutely, you all can do it yourself. You all have lots of powers yourself. You must first of use discretion. That must be developed. Sitting in the sun itself was a very, very stupid idea. What is the need? You have so much sun all over. You do not need any sun. We never sit in the sun. You will not find Indians sitting there in the sun like that.
Leader: We have got too much sun in (name of place unclear/Cyas?) too. We have got too much sun in (name of place unclear/Cyas?).
Shri Mataji: Already. Because of the drought.
Leader: They would not listen also. I already told one of them not to stay in the sun because of the [inaudible], use at least [inaudible/sunscreen?].
Shri Mataji: So it is all right. Let them learn a lesson. Now you should have taken out some pictures, enlarged them. Do not go in the sun.
Leader: Some of this.
Shri Mataji: No, but for the next group which will come, I am really worried about that at Ganpatipule. I want to have another session next year, only in Ganpatipule, not in Bordi. Because it suits all the Maharashtrians to come down, everybody it suits. Because it has a direct connection by plane also, those who want to come from Bombay. So there is no problem with that. But the only problem that exists in there is the sun. Bordi’s sun is not so hard.
Leader: Mother, when you are speaking of Ganpatipule, may I request humbly that we decide on the dates of next year’s tour?
Shri Mataji: So write it down. That is in another category.
Now from the school, we go now to the industrial school or whatever you call it, vocational school. And we have also done the idea of a university. So finished at that point. And somebody has to give Me a full idea – what is needed, what is to be done for the school, what you expect the school to have, all these things must come out.
Leader: Age the people should be sent at?
Shri Mataji: All, all ages. Now we have it at full blast. Two thousand.
Leader: All ages. All right.
Shri Mataji: So, first of all, you have to advertise and say that after two years we will be starting. Because it will take at least two years.
Leader: So in two years’ time this school would become a reality?
Shri Mataji: Reality.
Leader: Because it is exactly the time that our children would be able to.
Shri Mataji: Come down.
Leader: To get their first education.
Shri Mataji: You should start it from the age of eight years? Or seven years?
Leader: Seven is auspicious.
Shri Mataji: Actually you know, here the school starts from six.
Shri Mataji: Six years onwards. And then we have to think as to, summertime, it is quite big here. Summertime starts May, June, July, August. Four months we cannot have [inaudible]. And the children can go back home. Or if the parents want to come down here, they can go to some hill stations.
Leader: Heaven and study.
Another Leader: We are already in heaven.
Shri Mataji: Kashmir we have already been(?).
Leader: Welcome to the hill station.
Shri Mataji: Some hill station. So that you can spend some time with the children here. And they need not go back all the way back there if they do not want to do. I mean we can have it either way.
Leader: Or at Sangam?
Leader: Ultimately. Ultimately at Sangam, we would establish our own.
Shri Mataji: Sangam would be a different thing. That is a different thing altogether. We have to separate it. And I will tell you what Sangam’s idea is. So, we come to that point.
So the school is practically nearly covered. All right? Now for the school, you have to find out how you will advertise, and how you will contribute to the construction. You all give your ideas – what you want to have, what the children are required, what the smaller children want. I mean whatever your ideas, I will listen to that and we will work it out. So that you give your contribution.
(To someone in Marathi): What you do need?
All the time he was waiting.
Leader: Shri Mataji, one thing is extremely important what the mission says that come twelfth, the children should be brought up in English.
Leader: French studies.
Shri Mataji: That will be done. In the curriculum. Here in the curriculum, you have to have English. One language has to be English, one language has to be Marathi. These three languages you have to learn, anyway from childhood. Only if they join at the age of fourteen or so, then they can learn only two languages. But if they join from childhood, they have to learn these three languages. And in India, they will pick it up. Children pick up very fast.
Leaders: Yes, they do.
Shri Mataji: They pick up very fast.
[Cross-conversations about the languages between the leaders].
Leader: Datar(?) speaks better Hindi than English now.
Shri Mataji: Like this Ignatius(?), he is very smart. So we left his house and he was talking about somebody. [Inaudible]. He said, “Mataji, you know, he is a gardhava”. In Sanskrit, a donkey is called as gardhava. He said, he is a gardhava. And he told Me he goes to a school where Sanskrit is taught. (Laughing). I was so surprised at the boy, calling someone gardhava. And the fellow sitting was Indian. He did not understand what gardhava meant.
Leader: [Inaudible]. He did not understand.
Shri Mataji: That is why he said in the Sanskrit language. He did not know which language to use. To say in Hindi or English or Marathi, he would know. So he said he is a gardhava. He used the Sanskrit language because he knew I would understand. Very clever.
All right, this is about the school we have worked out.
Now, the other projects we have – lands and things, where we can have schools and we can have all these things, again we take [inaudible]. Now, this agricultural thing – this is another aspect of everybody’s life, agriculture. Which, we have already got five acres of land with us and I am trying to get us, also about seventy-five acres.
Leader: The whole bend of the river.
Shri Mataji: But as soon as we got the land, the canal [inaudible/passing by].
Shri Mataji: So we will have a continuous flow of water, no problem. And there are about fifty acres of land, which is on the riverside, where we can grow fruits like watermelon, [inaudible].
Leader: Literally on the bed of the river.
Shri Mataji: Yes, that is what. That will be My [inaudible]. So we will have quite a big farm there.
Leader: I am so glad that the water is there for irrigation. That is your miracle, Mother. Because this one engineer was telling Amadeu(?); he said that I am going to do everything possible to get the canal to pass by your land.
Shri Mataji: Actually, he diverted.
Leader: He diverted, he diverted.
Shri Mataji: And not only, but he also brought it in a big way because there is a bridge on top.
Leader: We will see this at Sangam when we go on the tour.
Another leader: We go there.
Shri Mataji: Yes, yes. This is in this tour, I have made [inaudible/meet] Sangam. Where there is the Nira river is the and the sand is very good there. It is My name – Nira river. And the sand is very good. I mean, you can call it clay. And you can use that also for bath and all that.
And if you want, you can go to Bhima which is there. But the only problem in Bhima is that some portions are extremely deep, and I am rather worried. You have to be careful.
Leader: We will just carefully cross it, Mother.
Shri Mataji: It is quite close, yes. Whichever you decide. Now, this could be a huge thing. Fifty plus seventy-five could be a huge thing, area. So many acres of land. And to begin with, on this land, I am thinking of putting some sugarcane with vibrated water. Which will give us more money also. And then we can have an investment on the rest of the thing.
So for two years, we do not have to bother much. Because getting land is a problem. It might take up one year more. By the time that is there, this can be sold out and we can do something else. For that, I have already asked him to find out how much it will cost to put out an [inaudible] on this sugar. So that is it.
But then we will have – now, because the Nira land, now this one is given to us by the government, we are not using it for any other purpose, but just for agriculture. But the side land which I will be using will be used for the [inaudible]. And also we can use that for our experimental purposes. For all these things we can use that.
Actually, we can concentrate on agriculture in that way. So we can experiment. Because in no country we can experiment. Here you can experiment – on anything, vibrated water or anything that you want to do. And you can even record it, establish it. The whole thing can be published, and we can work it out. And our government will help it out.
Shri Mataji: They are very helpful people. Very helpful. See they, also I would say – the S.T. (State Transport) group charges quite a lot of money. But to us, they did not charge so much. They give us a concession in a way. I mean their rates are there, we have to pay because petrol is so expensive. Diesel is so expensive. So they have to take that much money. Whatever they take it, I mean, they have been helpful.
Now, M.T.D.C (Maharashtra Tourism Development Corporation), we are not allowed to stay more than two people in one cottage. But there were sometimes four, five, six. They can help, not that. They understand. See, always everybody has a fear of God and saintliness.
Leader: Thank heavens. (Laughter).
Shri Mataji: At least there is someplace, some country like that.
Leader: As you say, we experienced, Mataji, we were talking about these horrible kids from Cologne(?).
[Break in recording. Another discussion after a gap].
Shri Mataji: Agro industries. Related to agriculture to the villages.
Leader: We will have a sort of agricultural products.
Shri Mataji: In a way, but we have more of a [inaudible] like that like solar energy should be developed in that way.
[Inaudible for twenty seconds/Multiple side conversations].
Shri Mataji: See this is the river Nira. It is about here. This is where the Bhima and [inaudible] meet.
[Conversations continue and then discussion picks up again with Shri Mataji].
Shri Mataji: Land is here. This is our [inaudible]. Can you believe he is about fifty-four years of age? He looks so young. He looks so young. He will be very happy.
Leader: He asked me again and again, again and again, when are you going to look at the proposal.
Shri Mataji: So if you inform him, he will be so very happy. He will give you a nice fish meal. And from there you go to Bombay. Very interesting place.
Leader: It is very beautiful coconut farmland.
Shri Mataji: This portion, this whole portion is Konkan. See. It is called as Konkan. Because there is a range called Sahyadri. It is close like this, Sahyadri. This is a big mountain of Sahyadri, ranges. And this side is Konkan. Where you have got Ganpatipule, where you have got Murud, you have got Ratnagiri, you have got these. And you go down below, you have got Goa. This thing is Goa.
Leader: All right.
Shri Mataji: So we never went up to that. There is no need.
Leader: So they could take lunch at Alibaug.
Shri Mataji: Murud is a wonderful place. Janjira, Murud beach. This is the one we were going to buy. It is a wonderful place you can see on your way back.
Shri Mataji: Wonderful place if you can see it.
Leader: When we are on the journey from Mumbai, they could stop for lunch if we really make fast time. If we can start at six o clock in the morning.
Shri Mataji: That is all right. If you can stop, have lunch and sleep there. It is very nice to sleep. And then next evening you can leave there. See in any case you have time. You tell him, he will do it.
Leader: Oh yes, I will speak to him in the puja.
Shri Mataji: So this is how you are going to give a real, real bandhan. You come like this from Poona, now you are going to go like that, and come back like that and go back to Bombay like that. Real bandhan.
Leaders: (Laughing) Interesting.
Shri Mataji: Only from here to [inaudible], you should [inaudible/head back].
Leader: If we go..
Shri Mataji: After the puja, if you go. It is that Mister [inaudible] will have made all arrangements for you.
Leader: At [inaudible/name of place].
Shri Mataji: At [inaudible/name of place]. So Maharashtra’s map is now on the map of the Universe, you can see that clearly.
Leader: Shri Mataji, each leader just has one or two small points to raise.
Shri Mataji: So now, this is one you see. Now, what do we do in Ganpatipule, is the point. I want to know only that much. Because I am buying lands after land like mad. So what should we do?
Leader: What project?
Shri Mataji: What project?
Leader: Shri Mataji, how close is this land to the coast?
Shri Mataji: Land to the?
Leader: How close is this land to the coast?
Others: On the coast. It is on the seaside itself. On the sea.
Shri Mataji: On the sea. Seashore. And there is a national highway going by, very close. Just close to the national highway, on the other side, there is a hill. He said you better have it on the hill, to begin with, because there is sweet water. But we can have it on the seashore also.
Leader: Shri Mataji, an ashram for all the Sahaja Yogis of the world. Together with being [inaudible] for all the Sahaja Yogis of the world.
Shri Mataji: For what? What?
Leader: It should be more of a kind of collective accommodation. So it can accommodate large groups at seminars.
Shri Mataji: That should happen. But apart from the seminar, what should be the activity that should be there?
Leader: What about the fishing project?
Shri Mataji: Fishing, coconuts.
Leader: And also the fruits of the sea at the wider level. They are investigating more about the use of these underground, undersea agriculture practice.
Shri Mataji: See there is a jetty also there. There is a jetty also. For your ships to come in, small little. We can have fishing boats or something.
Leader: Mother, marine biology is a whole big area right now.
Shri Mataji: Marine biology.
Leader: So the fruits of the sea are not just fish anymore, there are minerals and all that.
Shri Mataji: Oh, there are lots of minerals over there.
Leader: The seaweed has its own qualities.
Shri Mataji: Yes, the seaweed. So that is one we can have.
So there is one more thing I would like to have. We were thinking of having doctors and medical things on the Sahaja Yoga lines. So, which part of Maharashtra is best?
Leader: How about Poona?
Shri Mataji: Near Poona? Poona? Poona would be the best. Where I will also be there.
Leader: And there are a lot of hospitals also in Pune.
Shri Mataji: Yes, hospitals. We can take to [inaudible/name of hospital] there. Where I have cured at least twenty-five, who are the patrons. [Laughter].
Leader: So they can help build a new hospital.
Shri Mataji: Is this thing near Pune? Or should we do it near Dehu Road where Tukarama was?
Leader: I think Talegaon.
Shri Mataji: Malwadi?
Leader: Malwadi, Talegaon.
Shri Mataji: Next to the Indrayani.
Leader: And we have the advantages of Poona just there.
Shri Mataji: Because the vibrations are there and everything.
Leader: And people have to come. It’s just not like a regular hospital. They have to make an effort to come.
Shri Mataji: Effort to come. So we will have a natural hospital with Sahaja Yoga.
Leader: That is such an environment there and the people are so, beautiful.
Shri Mataji: Really? Next to the river. I will have to go and see. They are willing to give us land there.
Leader: I think, that when we were working on that little boy there. And it just seemed like such a natural environment there.
Shri Mataji: Now this Vashi, we have bought land there. One acre. And they are willing to give us one more acre. I do not know. In this land of one acre, I had a plan to make printing, processing, typesetting and all our literature to be done in that thing. What do you say?
Leader: I am living in Vashi.
Shri Mataji: Vashi? There is one Sudaokar(?). But this Arodi(?) fellow, he is willing to join us. So he can do all our work there.
(To someone in Marathi): What? We have taken it.
So if you agree, that is a place we have to develop. Or we have to find out if we have to buy some sort of a printing machine or something. Or we will have to import it. Some sort of a proper printing machine.
And Paul’s is very good. It can print into any language, he is saying.
Leader: It is not the machine. It is the programming. Highly sophisticated programming. Not the machine itself.
Shri Mataji: So that is what someone has to work it out. Some committee has to be formed. So only, the best way now is to form committees for all the different activities we want to have. And work it out on those committees.
Last, but not the least, is the marriage system. In the marriage system, it is done systematically no doubt these days, but it is not a written down method. Not explaining, counselling it. So we can say the Sahaja Yoga living rituals, mantras what is that – so somebody has to take it seriously and do this job of writing the different things that we do. What is this we are doing, what does this mean. Taking left to the right, right to the left, this that, all these things. The rituals part and marriages.
What do we do in the marriages, you see. Many people do not know what we are doing. They just get married. That should not be, they should know what it is. Let us have one centre where all this, all this thing must be done. And I think that best is Bombay. Bombay people should do that.
Now, another is to develop a centre of Sahaja architecture. And I feel the best place for that would be Delhi, what do you say?
Leader: Yes Mother that is the most developed. The most developed architecturally and it has.
Shri Mataji: You see, it has the most integration of all the architectural sides. Otherwise, I would say Baroda is another place, very beautiful. It is a very hot place and all that. It has good architectural college and all that. But best is, someplace we have to have for architecture, and I think Delhi is the best.
But all the architects there are influenced by the Western-style. Like, I went to a clerk’s house. Imagine, they are not practical. I went to a clerk’s house, a flat. And he has windows so little as that. So I could not understand in India to have such little, little windows. I mean, it does not help at all. So he said it is meant for air-conditioned houses.
Now in India, even a minister cannot have an air-conditioned house, it is so expensive. How can a clerk be going to have an air-conditioner? So that is it, they are.
Shri Mataji: Screws are tight. [Laughter].
Shri Mataji: They have their architecture, not of creativity, but they do not understand the surrounding. What surroundings there are, what sort of things are needed, what sort of needs a person for whom it is built. It is just done in a very conditioned manner.
Shri Mataji: So, one has to study Sahaja architecture from the angle of the kind of people living in it. For that, we must find out the history of agriculture and everything. Why do they make houses like that? I mean you will be surprised that the people in India, who live in the villages are very unhappy with these kinds of houses. The tin on top, the tiles, the house with the modern state they do not like. They like the hut. They are much more comfortable with the hut. Which is being built with the cow dung, it is very unique.
They are not very happy in a modern house. Very unhappy. They cannot bear it. It is very uncomfortable. Such a hot place, the hut system is the best. I mean we have to make proper huts. I mean how to make good huts for them and how to create huts.
Now like, a project they started in Madras, to make a hotel in huts. And to make for modern people, visitors and what you call, VIP tourists and all. And one hut cost more than any big bungalow. When he told Me, I was so surprised, the price of the hut. I said, who is going to pay for it? He said it is VIPs like to stay, it is just for their fondness to stay. I tell you; it is mad.
So this is what one has to study. Sort of we can say that we can study the styles which have grown.
We have to also study the fruits/foods(?) that are grown up in a particular way. What advantages – I mean the food part. The foods which are used for, I mean their food styles. What do they make, how many types – I mean India is a place of such variety.
Every day you find something new. Today she has made something, I said what is this. She said, made out of pulses. Something made out of rice. Something made out of this, that. So many varieties, because every woman creates something new. And cooking is done in the household. So we have so many varieties. You see. So for the cooking style, the food styles we have to have one place.
So what is the place? Is it Hyderabad? Where can we have like this?
Leader: What about the place where your birthplace is? Seven acres are there on the bend of the river where you used to play as a child? Which we can buy.
Shri Mataji: Warren that is good, but you see for this kind of a product, you have to be in some central place. You can be in Nagpur.
Leader: Or Nagpur.
Shri Mataji: Nagpur we have got this Jennifer’s man(?) here. Nagpur we can develop. But in that place, which is My birthplace, such a dilapidated place.
Leader: There are a beautiful seven acres in the bend of the river, near to Mother’s house.
Shri Mataji: That belonged to My mom.
Leader: And She played there as a little child. And it is only one lakh rupees. Ten thousand dollars to buy the land. And Baba Mama says it is still available. And I think we should buy it as a project. For some purpose. Mother would decide for what. But it is so cheap, so beautiful, that what.
Shri Mataji: That I will buy this time, Warren. I will buy both places, My birthplace and that. This time I will definitely buy.
Leaders: Beautiful. Wonderful.
Shri Mataji: Yes this year it will be done. Before it is disappeared. This two places we should be done, write it down. Because we have to [inaudible/register] what I have to do.
Leader: Somebody should transcribe this tape.
Shri Mataji: But for food, I think Nagpur is the best. Central, you see.
Leader: Yes, because it is Nabhi.
Shri Mataji: Can you imagine, we call this Nagpur to get its oranges. Means “santra”. “Santra” comes from the centre. Is centre. Marathi is “kendra”. You see, because “c” can be pronounced as “ka” as cat or “sa”. So we call it santra.
(To someone who is serving in Marathi): Please it is enough now. The stomach is full. Just give a little, very little. [Inaudible].
Now for health, which one, have we chosen now?
Leaders: Health, the medical centre we have chosen Pune. Or Talegaon whichever you choose.
Shri Mataji: Talegaon. Or Malwade. Because we have to develop natural things. Natural things.
Leaders: It should be a little away from Pune. A little away.
Shri Mataji: More natural. Little away. That is a much better place. You see, Myself I know so many natural things Myself. Apart from that, we can find out so many. Like this oil. This oil can remove, maybe, if worked out properly, can remove bald head.
Leader: Can remove what?
Another leader: Bald head. Baldness. Overcoming hair loss.
[Someone is asking about the oil].
Shri Mataji: No, no, no, it is not coconut. This is “mathya”. “Mathyacha tail” (oil for the head). This is something called a very cooling thing. See the temperature seems to be very low. Maybe, coconut with chameli. [Inaudible]. Anyway. Someone can study that.
[End of recording].