Interview

Madras (India)

 TRANSCRIPT OF INTERVIEW MADRAS INDIA 25-01-1986

[Audio recording. Inaudible for the first minute].

Interview: ..Monthly magazine running to about fifty pages. February issue we have brought out running to fifty-six pages. 

Shri Mataji: That is very good.

Interviewer: It is appearing in the Tamil language.

Shri Mataji: That is also necessary you know, you have people from.

Interviewer: And we have circulation about one lakh. We have one lakh.

Shri Mataji: Now you have to ask me questions because I do not know what to tell. We are from the same.

Interviewer: This is our advertising agent gave, who organised this speech. And one Mr Mani. 

Interviewers and Sahaja Yogis: Mr Mani from “Ganapati”. Famous Tamil weekly. Rajadivasthi.

Shri Mataji: Rajadi?

Interviewers: Rajadivasthi, patron. He has written about Ramayana, Mahabharata and all other religious matters in our weekly magazine. We have a circulation of about eighty thousand.

Sahaja Yogi: The name of the magazine, Mother is “Kalaki”.

Shri Mataji: “Kalaki”. Good, good, very good. Now, but this is published from where?

Interviewers and Sahaja Yogis: From Dindi. Madras, here itself. It is a Tamil weekly appearing from Madras.

Shri Mataji: That is also absolutely Tamil.

Someone: There is also a ladies-only magazine, “Mangaya Mala” devoted for ladies. And we have got another magazine for children, “Gokulam”. So we have got three magazines we are bringing out.

Shri Mataji: You see, these are all the ways to bring, should be for “janahita” ( public good). Everything should be for “janahita”. See, the whole concept is for janahita. Whatever, whether it for women, for men, for anyone, it should be good for everyone.

And that is what we have to find out within ourselves, what is the best way to get to “janahita”. We should not create issues. Now issues are mental. Like, some sort of parishad (organisation) we will form, then only the arguments will happen. Then the arguments, conferences, this, that. And ultimately, it comes to nothing.

Now this country of ours is really a great country. It is a “yogabhoomi” (land of yoga). Yogabhoomi. I am not saying because it is said. It is really great. And it is full of Chaitanya. It is full of Chaitanya. Now, such a great country of ours, you see, we have missed the point. And that is why we cannot expose the greatness of our country.

As Shri Krishna has said, the roots are in the head. And the tree grows down. Of awareness. Now what has happened is, we did not go down to the roots. The roots of this awareness, this human awareness, is in this country. But by English education and Western education and all that, we just got stuck their way. And we started going “adhogati” (degeneration). Towards…

But they have gone very low. You have no idea to what extent they have gone. Absolutely ruined people. You have to pity them. That is their condition. But as I told them, today also in the lecture, we the people who call ourselves Indians or Hindus or Bharatiyas, how we have gone into two wrong directions. And got stuck.

When we go downward, then what happens? Like the tree grows, first, it is only one root. And then what happens, the tree grows – then many leaves and branches, it branches off. So when we go upwards, the integration of all the things should take place. We must integrate. 

But on the contrary, when we go downward, we become some South India, some Madras, this and that. You see all “jhagdas” (quarrels) and all that. 

So, to go upward, how to do it? At that time, Shri Krishna did say you have to go upward. You have to get “bodha” (awareness). And bodh, as you say the Vedas, the “vidha” (custom). This is the work. You get it not by discussion, arguments, talking about it, by reading, by “parayanas” (repetition). No. Through your ascent. “Udaan”. What do you call it in your language?

Someone: For?

Shri Mataji: Udaan – Ascent. You see, for that dharma was established. Unless and until you get your balance, you cannot be established. So, the dharma was established. And dharma was just to give you the balance so that you become “dharmatit” (beyond dharma). 

So, in this country lie roots which will nourish the whole Universe. But if we do not prepare ourselves for that, and if we do not take to that thing that is “udhogati”, going, ascending upwards, we cannot help anyone, we cannot help ourselves.

This is the reason why our country has come to this state. Now, this is all “nihit” (contained), in our country, it is written down. You see, it has been going on. Like I will tell you, Suchindra, you must have heard of. Where he was given realisation, Indra was, I mean, thousands and thousands of years ago, at the time of Prahlada, he was given realisation. At the time of Janaka, Nachiketa, who was given realisation. Very few. Very few were given realisation at that time.

But there was a very secret theme going on. But Adi Shankaracharya clearly talked about it. Then, in India we have people like Gyaneshwara who talked about it, Kabira, talked about it. Nanaka talked about it. All the saints practically have talked about this. That it is a happening that has to take place for our “chetana”, our awareness, by which you receive a state, or you become the state of turiya, the fourth dimension. 

That fourth dimension to attain, something has to happen. It is all written down, I mean, I am not telling you something new. Also, I should say that Marx has said that the whole world should become beautiful. That in the whole world there should not be any state. Marx, they say, communist. But, how? Tukaram has said “Avaghachi sansar sukhacha karen” means he said, “The whole world must be made beautiful, must be made happy”. How? 

Shri Krishna has said it also. That “asuri” (demon) shakti will cover the whole of the Universe if we are not careful. And you should go to the gyana, that means the bodha, on your central nervous system you must feel the all-pervading power. If you say, “There is God, there is God”, who will believe us? Tomorrow you will be surprised that our children will not go to the temple. They will not go to the masjid, they will not go to the church. They will say, “Why are you wasting our energy and your energy?”. So we have to prove the existence of God.

The only way to do it is through Kundalini awakening. But only in Bharata, we have got that knowledge. So I would not call it even the Hindu religion, I would call it the universal religion. The religion that is universal, we have got the roots in this country, “vidhas”. But we are so much impressed by the English education, so much outside, that we do not want to see. 

Somebody has to do the job. So that is why I was born, and I knew I had to do it. But I had to know about human beings and what problems there are. Because there are six chakras above the Kundalini and one chakra below that. And I wanted to find out what problems they have, why can we not raise the Kundalini just like that? We should be able to do it. 

But then I found out they have problems – permutations, combinations, this, that, you see. Either they are tamogunis or rajogunis or all combinations of tamoguna, rajoguna, everything put together. And all kind of things they have. So I had to study human beings. 

And I must say, My father was a great man who told me all about human beings. How they become criminals, why they become like this. And he told me the reason, “This chakra spoils, this chakra spoils”. And as a result of that, I tried to meet all these so-called gurus also. To see them, meet them and I found all these so-called gurus were a hoax. Absolutely hoax. Because for Kundalini awakening, you cannot pay money. That is the first principle, is you cannot pay money for God.

God does not understand the money you see, does not understand money. So, I had to find out a method. And then I found out a method by which I could give en masse realisation. Because if I give you realisation, they will say, “This man has also become mad with this woman”. Already we troubled all our saints, tortured them, we have never listened to them, we never bothered about them. When they die, then you write Gita, you write Ramayana, you write poems and everything. But till they live, we torture them. 

So, this has gone into the hands of the wrong people. As a result of that, the whole thing is such a beautiful thing that we have with us. Such a great science of God’s laws we have with us. We are so rich in this way. I find that the whole thing is fragmented. Because of all these complications of the human mind. So, to establish that, one must get realisation. Atma sakshatkar. Atma bodha. There is no other way out. 

Even Buddha. They call him “Aneeshwarawadi”, that he does not believe in God. But Buddha and Mahavira both thought that if they talk of Ishwara, people start thinking they are Ishwara themselves. So best is not to introduce Ishwara at all. Let them, first step first. Take your self-realisation. Without that do not talk to us. You are not self-realised, first, take your self-realisation. You are not connected with God. Whom are you talking to? Where are you praying to? 

Even in the temple, you go, especially in the West people go, they start criticising. Their churches are equally the same, their Popes are equally the same. This Pope is coming, I do not know what to say. Another sort of fellow coming up.

Now Adi Shankaracharya, he was an incarnation. He was an incarnation, no doubt about it. But in Kerala when I went there, there were some communists I think they published that She was sitting in a room which had a carpet from wall to wall. But I did not see what was wrong – it was not Mine. But they had taken one room in the hotel – I do not know, Kovalam hotel, where we met those newspaper people. So, how superficial. I mean, in my house, the whole house is like that. I live in a very luxurious house Myself. So, they just saw that carpet. I mean, where is your attention? What are you doing? And I asked them about Adi Shankaracharya, they said he was a hoax. I said, “Really?”. Such [inaudible]. So I thought what to talk to these stupid people. 

So, this is what we are coming to now. Intellectually if you start moving – recently I read, one of the letters came to me, saying that, they are now trying to propound, that Soundarya Lahiri was not written by Adi Shankaracharya. Because first, he wrote Viveka Chudamani. So how can Viveka Chudamani man write this Soundarya Lahiri? It shows how gross we are.

We have to become “sukshma” (subtle). This is “sukshma gyan” (subtle knowledge). And for this sukshma gyan, we have to become sukshma. But the whole thing becomes so gross. You see, we make an issue out of everything. We fight for this, we fight for that. There is no need to fight. 

You see, once you become a realised soul, you will be so powerful. They will be all frightened of you. Not only that, they will have awe and they will come to you for solutions. So the time has come for all of us to get self-realisation. But this superficial cannot understand this. They cannot understand that this can happen. They have lost faith in themselves. They think how can we, the people in these modern times get realisation. And then, they do not know what to do, so they start criticising. See this is how the media, I have been avoiding throughout.

Because media, stupid people, they see something, they write something stupid. I do not know what. Now if I am wearing a white sari, they will say why was she wearing a white sari. You see this kind of nonsensical people, so superficial, absolutely third rated. Though I was telling him, you do not get any newspaper people. I have had enough.

Worse is in the West, you see. Like in England, the BBC fellow came and told me, that how can You not take money? I said, “Why? How much can you give for this? This is self-realisation. How much did you give to Christ when He said you have to be born again. How much?”. But they said, “But we Anglo-Saxons brains you see, cannot understand anything without money.”. I said, “Then who has made the Anglo-Saxon brains? You have made it, or God has made it?”. But you will be surprised, I went to Toronto. The newspaper people asked, “How many Rolls-Royces She has?”. They said, “She does not take any money, why will She have Rolls Royce?”. They said, “We are not interested”. And they have gone worse and worse. To tell you the truth, it is so horrible over there. It is not for an Indian woman to tell how things there are. I mean, I shudder at the idea, the way we are going for our “pragati” (progress), we are going “adhogati” (degeneration) with them. And we should not go to that level.

Now, the main problem with the people who are sadhakas is this – they get stuck. Into their ritualism, this, that, everything. There is no “aadhar” (basis) for these rituals. Some rituals which are done by Brahmins, which means realised souls, is the real ritual because it reaches God. They have a connection with God. Those who have no connection with God, whatever rituals they are doing are useless. And the money is first. In every ritual, money. Which God does not understand, you see. So that is also out of question.

The second kind of ritual you see is to torture your life in the name of God. It is nonsensical. He is “Anand” (joy). God is the source of Anand. Your Atma is Anand. So, the idea you should torture yourself, I cannot understand. Why should you torture? I mean, if you want to trouble your mother, you will torture yourself. Or you will not eat food. Fasting is another. It is very bad. What is the need for fast in the name of God? 

You will be surprised this fasting business in India has brought us this kind of poverty also. Because you see, on all the “janmas” (births) of all the great incarnations, we fast. Suppose a child is born to us, will that day be a fast that is a “sutaka” (inauspicious period)? Or, we will distribute sweets? So all these wrong ideas and wrong things have come, so deities are angry.

I will give you an example, a very concrete example. We have one very good Brahman called Rajwade. He is Agnihotri, they have done a thousand “homas” (puja) and all. So, he was a good Sahaja Yogi, he came to Me. He said, “Mother, I have got prostate gland trouble”. I said, “Impossible. You are a Shri Ganesha “bhakta” (devotee), you are a Sahaja Yogi, you are connected to Shri Ganesha, so how can you get prostate trouble?”. Because Shri Ganesha rules prostate gland. He said, “But I have got it”. I said, “All right”. So that was the day, you know my prasad is chana, I give chana. So he said, “Mother, today I am sorry, I cannot have this chana”. I said, “Why?”. “Today is Sankashti (Sankashta Chaturthi, day of Ganesha’s birth dedicated to Shri Ganesha’s worship every month in Hindu calendar). Sankashti day I fast”. I said, “What? Today is the day such a great son was born on this Earth. Better eat it now”. And he ate it. When he went back, the doctor said he had no prostate at all. Is a fact. Of course, he is now a great Sahaja Yogi. This Rajwade is a very great Sahaja Yogi. But what I am saying is, that see how God gets angry. 

Now people, on the day of Guru, means Thursday, they fast. They will always have stomach trouble because the Guru resides here. They want you to enjoy life. They do not want you to aggress others. But to enjoy, that is the point. Then why do you fast yourself? You can fast for any other reason, you can fast for your health, but not for God. You should not fast. Supposing a mother is giving you, cooking very good food for you, giving you everything. She has that fondness; my child will come and eat. You say, “Oh, I am fasting”. That is the way you make her cry. I mean, in India at least, you understand everyday life, we understand a mother’s heart. To make a mother weep is to fast. And that is what people are doing. 

There are so many things like this which are to be corrected. When should we fast, when we should not fast. For example, on Narakchaturdashi (the day before Diwali), we should fast. Because that is the day, the door of hell is opened, that is the day, fourteenth day. And all the bad spirits are put by the goddess inside the “naraka” (hell). That is the day we should fast and sleep till late. And in the morning and have our bath – just the opposite. And eat. See the logic, it should be logical also. You see the logic is, Narakchaturdashi was the day when he was killed, put in the naraka. Now why do you want to get up in the morning and eat your food; maybe the door is not yet closed. Maybe some of them are lingering here and let them all go away. There should be suchir muhurta, then we can eat. 

So this the trouble with us. All these small, small things you see, that is how they have all made God very unhappy. They have made God very unhappy. 

Like now, we have got here such great temples. I have seen there are. Like say, we have got Tirupati. Tirupati is a sakshat, it is a swayambhu thing. Now how do you know, it is swayambhu? What makes it swayambhu? I say so all right, but why do you accept it? Because somebody has told you. It is swayambhu because, when you are self-realised, then what happens is when you put your hands towards that, you start feeling the Chaitanya coming out. So Mother Earth has produced this great deity for us. 

In the Bible, it is written that whatever is produced from the Earth or the sky, is not to be reproduced. It is not against “murti puja” (idol worship). But is against that you make the murti. But again now, what they do, they make a Tirupati, out of plastic, sell it in the market, make money. How can you him into plastic? It is an insult or not? To me, I cannot stand it. Shirdi You see, they will have photographs, Shirdi Sainath’s photograph into the plastic. Plastic. Wearing plastic, going around. No respect for him. No respect for Tirupati. If you have respect, how can you do that? Then they are selling Tirupati everywhere. All this in South India, I cannot understand. It is beyond my mind.

If you want to build schools, build it. If you want to do social work, do it. But why get God into that? God does not do social work. How does He do social work? Like I do. I just see the thousands of people, they get their realisation, they get all right. No sickness finished, once and for all. They forget their drinking, they forget drugs, everything. Thousands. Just forget it. Because they get their Atma, and that is how they emancipate. 

I do not have to go and do social work, give any money, start a school, this, that, what is the use? So in the name of God then, not only do we fast, we do social work. Just like a missionary. These stupid missionaries you see. They do not understand God’s will. I do not blame them. Because you see, they could not contain a Christ into the Bible. He is such a great personality. In three and a half years, they could not understand him. It took me four years to give realisation to seven Englishmen, so you can imagine what happened to Christ also.

But when you become realised soul, you become dharmatit. Dharmatit does not mean you give up dharma, but dharma flows through you. Like, you do not have to tell any saint not to drink. He just does not drink, like automatically. He does not do anything wrong, automatically; because he comes dharmatit, he becomes dharma itself. So we do not have any problems, like, a fakir would be a dharmatit fellow. That is what we have to understand. This is philosophy. Anybody can be a dharmatit, anybody. There is nothing like “shudras” (lower caste), there cannot be nothing. These shudras and “chandalas” (wicked) and all these names have come, not according to the birth. This is the wrong concept, that we have. It is according to karma, whatever karma you have done. I mean, it is logical to see. 

Like, we have got, say, for example, Vyasa. Who was Vyasa? You know that. The illegitimate child of a fisherwoman. All right? How does he become a Brahmin? Who was Valmiki? You see, this is deliberately done by God. Who was Valmiki? All this is done to show us that we should not do it according to the birth, but you have to achieve. To be Brahmin means you have to achieve you have to know the Brahma.

So it is not born Brahmin, but it is the twice-born – the “dwijha”. The one who is not twice-born is not actually a Brahmin. But then, we have a ritual – all right, just do this, do that and give “upavita” (sacred thread), you are a Brahmin, certified. You cannot give a certificate like that.

I was telling you about these vibrations. That there is one place called Musalwadi, where the Devi killed Rahu with a “musala” (mace-like weapon). So it is called as Musalwadi. This place is a very wonderful place. Because, about fifty years ago, an engineer wanted to build a dam there. When he went there to build the dam, the dam could not be built in a particular area. So he was quite surprised. The whole day they would build, and in the night, the whole thing would be exploded. He could not understand what was happening. So one fakir came and said, “Now this place is a very holy place. There is some swayambhu here. It is covered in clay and all, but that is not so. Inside that, inside that place resides a great deity. And you do not disturb this, because that is exploding it.”. So he opened that area. And they found some stones and things like that. He said, “The only thing you can do is to go around that place”. 

Imagine a dam straight forward and goes around like that. So I said, “I will go and have a look”. Went and saw, it is a swayambhu. Such cool vibrations, it is a swayambhu. The complete Sahasrara. So these boys were there, they immediately donated twenty-one thousand, built a temple. And they also did “jeernodhara” (restoration) of the temples which were actually swayambhu or vibration – those which were giving vibrations. Wherever we saw such temples, we tried to do the jeernodhara. 

All this is working out in a way that people are getting transformed, now they have got a new awareness and they can feel it. They have got absolute discretion. Absolute discretion. It is not maybe, may not be. Absolute. Because Atma is absolute. So, the knowledge they get on their fingertips when the Kundalini rises; in the six – one, two, three, four, five, six and seven centres. Same here, left and right. The knowledge they get is expressed on these chakras. And then you know what it is.

Now, what I have done is to decode it. Now, what is this chakra, what is this chakra, how you get, if you get burning, what is this chakra? Now you can verify it. When the Kundalini is rising, you can verify it. Suppose somebody is catching on this chakra. So that person has got the right Vishuddhi. There is a problem with the right Vishuddhi. Then you ask the question, “Are you suffering from bronchitis? Are you a speaker? Are you something? Have you used energy too much on the right Vishuddhi?”. If you have used it, then all right, let us have it. Then we should know how to correct it. If you know how to correct it, personally speaking, there is nothing great.

Because these centres that are there, are the “sukshmas” (subtle) of all the plexuses. All the plexuses. The plexuses that are outside are the gross. And these are the sukshma. Now a doctor will have a Ganesha in the house. In Maharashtra, or here, everywhere. Now, he will say namaskara to Ganesha. He does not know that this Shri Ganesh controls the prostrate. This connection comes only when you get your realisation. So the gross has to become subtle, to get to the roots. We have the knowledge of the roots, they have the knowledge of the tree. That is why they are destroying, they have no knowledge of the roots.

And what is the use of giving water to the leaves, to nourish the tree? That is what they are doing. That is why we have the roots with us, we have to achieve, through the Kundalini awakening. And the Kundalini rises.

Now they ask Me a question sometimes, very dominatingly, “Why should You do it, I do it”. I said, “ You do it, I will be very happy. I will just retire. I will be very happy. Now I am so old, I am sixty-three years of age. I must rest, you better do it. This job is a very good idea. I go to villages, I travel by bullock cart, take all this trouble, better you do it. Why not you do it? So the thing is, if I am doing it, it is a mother’s job. You require a lot of patience. You require a lot of love. And, you have to work very hard. Because human beings are lost in ego, and in conditioning. 

In India, we are more lost in the conditioning, that in the ego. But the West, they have got mountains of ego. If you have to raise their Kundalini, oh baba, you have to think about it, how to raise the Kundalini of these stupid people. Because ego gives you stupidity. “Murkhas” (stupid) they are, murkhas. You know the word. We are “mudhas” (foolish, obstinate). They are murkhas. Absolute murkhas. And how to talk to them. They are so stupid. So no use talking, raise their Kundalini. 

This is what is modern Sahaja Yoga. That first raise their Kundalini. Through the Brahmanadi, it is a very sukshma nadi. It is inside. Innermost. Just one breadth of hair of Kundalini, if it rises, then what happens – there is light. When there is light you can see the mistakes, the spots in you, everything. As you said, Kalaki, is nishkalanka, is Kalaki. All right? So you see the defects in yourself, you become your own Guru, correct it. I do not have to bother. I am just a mother, I make you your own Guru. So this is what it is, that first you give them realisation. 

As in Marathi, they say, “Adhi kalas, mag payaa”. First, the “gopuram” (dome), then the foundation. First, give them realisation. Once they get the realisation, then you do not have to bother. They themselves look after them. Of course, the light may be flickering, does not matter. Maybe a little problem does not matter. But it has started.

Then gradually, if they know how to steady it, establish themselves, then from thoughtless awareness, nirvichar samadhi, they become nirvikalpa samadhi – they achieve that. This is the state which is described in Hatha Yoga also. What I am talking about is done also in Hatha Yoga. But Hatha Yoga means standing on your head, indiscriminately or doing some sort of nonsense. Taking all the medicines together, getting sick; I get all sick patients from Hatha Yoga. “What have you been doing?”. “I have heart trouble”. “What have you been doing?”. “I am doing “shirsasana” (standing on head pose). “Do you have any problem, for shirsasana?”. “No, everybody said, do shirsasana, so I was doing”.

I mean, in the realm of religion, everybody is an authority. There is nobody to control or to tell them that – “Baba, why are you giving all these asanas to a person who should be sleeping, having only “shavasana” (corpse pose)”. So there is, should be new awakening within us – that it is a science. Let the Kundalini rise, then we will know on what chakra it is stopping, then what “vyayama” (exercise) we have to do, what mantra we have to do, what is the mantra that will be effective. And how to make the Kundalini rise properly, cleanse our chakras properly and get a “suchirbhut” (clean, pure) disposition so that you reach a state where you become established in the chaitanya. This is the point.

You see, but we also, we have got also another problem. That we have got gurus, staying in this corner, that corner – they are doing all tricks also, some sort of hoax they are doing. People are very much impressed by those tricks. And they come and ask, what is the number of the horse, something like that. Then we say that a lady gets a spirit in her and she starts agitating. Then we say a Devi has come in her. Now imagine, in Bombay, most of the maidservants get Devi in them. Now Devi has no other way but to go in these mad women who just do the cleaning of the utensils of other people. Just think of it. How ignorant. What we say, we have “dharmandar”, “dharmandita” (fanaticism). They have no dharma. So they do not even have eyes. When we have eyes, and we are blind, we are just the same as them. They have sick eyes, they cannot see, and we have closed our eyes. We are dharmandita. 

And in that, one has to understand that it is very easy to raise the Kundalini, not difficult. Like Mother Earth, it is a living process. As you have become a human being from amoeba, now you have to become a higher being. It is spontaneous, Sahaja. Sahaja – born with you. The right to get realisation is born with you – Sahaja Yoga is that. Is born with you. But you must know it is a living process. You cannot pay for a living process. Supposing there is a seed and you want to plant it. You do not have to stand on your head or pay money to that. The Mother Earth has the power, she can do it. In the same way, it happens. 

But higher than that is, once you get realisation and get established, you can give realisation to others. So, so many things put together – you can say it is like a seed sprouting, a light enlightening, do not know how many things. All things put together like that. If you put the analogies like that – I do not know how many analogies you would have to go to say one thing; self-realisation. So many [inaudible/ways]. 

So this knowledge is in this country, but where are we lost?

[Pause/Break in recording].

When I announced about all these false gurus, every one of them had to [inaudible]. Who is a Mahishasura, who is a Ravana, who is this – everybody’s names I took and said this is this, this..they did not, I mean, nobody sued Me. Nobody. It was on tapes and everything. And I told their names. So people came to my husband and said, “Oh God, She will be killed, and this will happen and that will happen”. So I said, “Yet there is somebody to be born who can kill Me. [Inaudible], to kill Me” But this is what it is. You see, we take to falsehood. When you are an intellectual, you always take to falsehood. You do not like the Truth, because you think you know the Truth. You avoid the Truth. All right. 

If you are not an intellectual, then you are a blind dharmanda. Then also you say, “No, I am very happy”. I have been to Guruvayur (a famous temple), I have been to our all temples in the South, they are [inaudible]. But when I see the working of these temples, I get a shock. I said, “What is this?”. I see nobody knows what is Tirupati. Where is Tirupati standing there, giving the vibrations, emitting vibrations? And what are we doing? And his “tilaka”(Kumkum) is sold, much to my surprise. And Shri Krishna has said, “Yogakshema Vahamyam” – first take Yoga, then I will give you kshema. Not this kind of nonsense we are doing in the name of God. Take first the Yoga. Yoga is the union. And you get the kshema. His friend Sudama had to go and see Him, then he got his kshema.

In the same way, we have to be one with God. That is real darshan. That is real darshan of God. Now, a saint would ask God for three things. He would ask for, he would say, let me have your “salukhya” (proximity), “sanidhya” (companionship); he would ask for three things. But in Sahaja Yoga, you get “tadatmya” (identity/Self). You get tadatmya. What else you want? This is what is the boon of Sahaja Yoga. I never knew it would work that wonders. I thought at the most, I would end up with twenty-one disciples. I did not know in my lifetime, we would have so many people. As My disciples in the sense, My children realised souls. We talk the same language – whether you come from England, whether you come from Australia, whether you come from anyplace, you come from India, you come from East, we talk the same language, vibrations. We talk the same language as chakras.

This is [inaudible] to the disciples of Christ. In the Bible, or according to them, there is nothing like a female deity, nothing like a Shakti. That is the best part of it, you see. So they say there is the Father, there is the Son. And the third thing is not the Mother, is the Holy Ghost. Holy Ghost is a what, is a pigeon. Dove. Imagine, a dove. I mean, how can you have a Father and a Son, not the Mother. You may have Mother and the Son, but you have to have a Mother in any case. And that is how they denied women completely. For them, Shakti does not exist for them. So, the Holy Ghost is .. and this Adi Shakti is reflected within us as Kundalini. And the heart reflects God Almighty, Sadashiva. Who does not incarnate? Who is the witness of the play of the Adi Shakti?

Now when the Kundalini rises, through these chakras, though the Sadashiva is reflected in our heart, the Atma, as Parmatma He exists on top of our head. So it touches the feet of Paramatma, and that is how our Atma throws its light into our attention. I will explain. Say, this our attention, spread in the void, Bhavasagara, right here. So, the Kundalini comes and comes up like this. And pierces through. And inside is our “chitta” (attention). Chitta. In the chitta, the light starts spreading. And that is how your attention becomes enlightened. When it becomes enlightened, the satya which is absolute becomes evident. Like sitting down here, if you think of someone, you can feel his vibrations and you can find his problems. 

“Charachar”. This shakti is in the charachar, you can find in the “anu-renu” (atoms). And this shakti moves instant, accurate, perfect, efficient information. And if you know how to manoeuvre it and manipulate it, you can solve anything. Now, it is all predicted in a book called Nadi Grantha written by Brighusanghita. Brighu wrote Brighu Sanghita and as you know, Nadi Grantha. In that, he has described, he has predicted, that this will happen when paramchaitanya you will feel; that time will be the time when people will emancipate. Not only that, the Kundalini will rise in such a Sahaja way, that there will be no need to have the arogyalayas, means the, what you call the hospitals and all that.

[Inaudible question].

Shri Mataji: It is written that. Now, what is the age of Bhrigu? Thousands of years. But, about a hundred years back, there was a great poet called William Blake, who has written down. About, completely about Sahaja Yoga – how it is going to work out.

Now, according to Sahaja Yoga, every country has a place, like a chakra. So the Kundalini is in this “pathara” (plateau) of Maharashtra, the whole of, I mean Maharashtra, and these all sides, what you call Eastern, Western ghats and this side, Vindhyas. Vindhyachala, Sahyadri and this, all this, is the Kundalini. Three and a half coils. These are four deities that we have got now, in Maharashtra. Ashtavinayaka, [break in audio]. 

The twenty-seven, the twenty-eight body parts of the Mother Earth, which fell down in different parts are all there. They exist. To give us vibrations, Mother Earth has done that. She gives us vibrations. To keep her children good, she cleanses us, helps us, looks after us. 

We are so blessed by God. This is a special country, where nothing but Ganesha rules – so powerful. This is such a holy land. But we have spoilt it. Because we did not find out the roots. That was our job – was the job was to not go after these Western people but to find out our roots. So like that, now where is the heart of the Universe – it is in England. The heart is in England. Shiva sits there. But Sadashiva is on the Kailasha. If the Shiva reflection is the heart of the Virata; this Prithvi (Earth) if you call Virata, in that, the heart is in London. That is why it circulates – such a little thing, but the news circulates so fast from England. Anything happens in England circulates. Now the whole of Europe is the liver. 

But we are all going against what God has given us. Like, in India is the Kundalini, we have no seeking. England, is the heart, is frozen and lethargic. France is the liver, they just drink and spoil it. So it is a great responsibility on us Indians, who have the roots. We have the whole “sampatti” (treasure) with us. So we must establish ourselves in our Atma. And then we can say we can nourish the whole Universe. But the trouble is, I have to bring Western people here to influence the Indians. And the Indians, you see, sometimes they are very much impressed, sometimes they are angry. But the main thing is, I was surprised to hear there was no immigration for foreigners in India. So now these people want to settle down here; they cannot settle down. Now I just do not understand – that a person who is a Bharatiya is one who has got self-realisation. Our aim in life is self-realisation. Nothing else. 

You see, as soon as you are born, they write it on the Kundalini – whether you are going to get self-realisation or not. Whether you get the right guru or not. That is our – when do we get moksha, isn’t it. That is our aim in life. We Indians are taught from childhood. Moksha is our name. Well now if you think somebody wants to be a minister, that is all nonsensical. But moksha is our aim. Even “chitta-nirodha” (cessation or stilling of attention). Chitta-nirodha. Meaning, not letting your chitta go wherever it likes. The chitta-nirodha part comes because we have to ascend. So we should not fritter away our chitta. We do not fritter away, we get stuck into things. So when the question of your ascent comes, you are stuck. Just cannot go on. So this is what we have to point our sadhana. We should logically – not rationally, rationality can be very dangerous – but logically understand that we have the roots of the whole Universe in this country. And we have to become sukshmas. To become that we have to not get stuck into things. Like fasting, like all the other kinds of things we do. 

Like in Maharashtra, you see, the people put a little bit of tobacco in the mouth. And they take these two things in the hand called “chiplyas”, I do not know what you call them – for the bhajan stuff, small ones. With that, they go on “Vithala, Vithala, Vithala, Vithala”, you see, one month. Starving. Just with the “tambaku” (tobacco) in the mouth for one month, starving. Going there. And there the Brahmins called “badaves” – badave means the one who beats you. The badaves are in charge of these people. They take the heads of these people like coconut and just beat it. I saw it Myself one day and was so furious. What is happening? Shri Krishna must have run away from there. The way these people are behaving. And you will be amazed; in eight days the government has taken over. 

Now, I will give you a simple example of understanding. This way. That how, big problems come in, like in Aurangabad. I was agreeable with them, for the agitation – for these Jordanian boys misbehaving with our women, and troubling them, was correct. That point was correct. So you take a procession. Now, a masjid is a place where people meditate. We also meditate. We do not want people to disturb us. So we must respect the masjid, as we should have a great heart. Respect the masjid. That time, if you stop a little bit of music, what does it matter? You respect it. So to see discreetly, why we are creating– this is provoking them for nothing at all. Why should we not go with the same respect as we have for our temples – they are meditating. Like, if we are meditating and there is a procession going behind and we tell them we are meditating; they will stop it. In the same way, if there is masjid we must because Muhammad Saheb talked of, he talked more of meditation – of the Nirakara.

He came to Nirakara and he said we should meditate. The whole of this namaz is Kundalini awakening. And there is, in their books if you read Koran; my father translated Koran. So he has dedicated so much of it for the resurrection part. And he says when you will be resurrected, your hands will speak. He talks of “ruh” (Spirit) and “roohani” (spiritual) and this and that. But “samayachara” (prevailing in that time) that time was such, at that time, that we can say, at the time of Sikhs of Sikhs, in the same way, samayachara was such that these horrid Arabs you can say, were different tribes who were fighting among themselves. They actually tried to give him poison also. So, so they tried to kill. They killed his son-in-law, they killed his grandchildren. You know what sort of people they were. So, they had to fight to preserve themselves. Like Shivaji also had to fight. There was nothing wrong in that. But today, there is no need to fight.

You see, when there is a flood, we use a boat to cross. But when you reach the shores, you do not take the boat on your head, do you? That is what we are doing. We are still carrying on with that nonsense. Whatever has happened is finished now; “gata is gata” (past is past).In the present time, what is the samayachara? To get realisation to [inaudible]. That is the time. Blossom time. Everybody must get their realisation. They must get the fruits. 

Then all these problems; you will be surprised, in Algeria, they started – it is a communist country. Communism started. And there were five hundred people who became communists because they were against the fundamentalists. Here also, those who are stuck up are fundamentalists. Now the fundamentalists are trying to destroy the faith in God. They said, if these are the ones who believe in God, then better not have such a God. One boy from there came us, very educated, very well educated; they are very intelligent people. He is an aeronautical engineer. He came to London. And somehow he came to see Me. And he got his realisation. He went back and told them, ”No, no there is God. No doubt. We have not found it. These fundamentalists are wrong. These communists are wrong. There is God”. Then he gave realisation to five hundred people. In Algeria; they are Muslims. And they came to see Me by plane, to get their realisation.  

We had a Nigerian who is a barrister, whose brother is an ambassador in Moscow. We need not give all this because he might get in trouble because that is a country of [inaudible]. But he is a barrister, he came to India. They know what is Ganesha is. The Jews never believed in Christ, but they believe in Christ. Because who is Christ – do we know, who is Christ? Because when these stupid missionaries came, they came with a gun in their hand and the Bible in the other hand. So we thought about what sort of religious people they are. And those who were poor people just succumbed to them because they gave them money. All right, they put one loaf in a well and they said, “Now you have eaten the [inaudible], now you all are Christians”. Like they became, the whole villages became, with these horrible missionaries. These missionaries did not give us the right idea about Christ. Christ was not born in England. We, you see Christians here think he was born in England, you see. That is what they believe in. Indians are also – so they think whatever the Bharatiyas are doing, we should do the other way round. Even the Muslims think the same way. 

Now, the real idea of Christ was not told to us. Have you read the Devi Mahatmyam? There you must have read about Mahavishnu, who was the son of Shri Krishna. He is the same as Christ. You see, the description is the same. He is the son of Shri Krishna. Radha gave Him birth. You see, “Harihara” (Hari-Vishnu, Hara – Shiva). He is Harihara. He is Ganesha, is the son of Hara. Hari [inaudible] here. Then He became Aiyappa here. And He became Christ. He is Harihara. The one – son of Harihara, Aiyappa. He is the one because He is Mahavishnu. And one-sixteenth of the part you give to Shri Krishna goes to Him. And He said, “You will be the adhara (support)”. Nobody knows about Mahavishnu. And absolutely, at the time of their resurrection, when in the Christian religion – they observe this Easter, they have eggs. They do not know why. In that Mahavishnu came as an egg. And half of it was crying for the father and half of it incarnated. That is, the Ganesh tattva incarnated through Hari tattva. Aiyappa, He is the same. 

Now how do we prove it? Because at the Agyna chakra, the baudha, as we call Him, the baudh, the mild one, the tapasvi. He is the tapasvi. His name has to be taken if the Kundalini has to rise above the Agyna. And also if you see, Christ is always standing like this. He prays to God, His father, Shri Krishna. Now, these two fingers in Sahaja Yoga relate one, to the Nabhi chakra, that is, Shri Vishnu and another one to Shri Krishna; that is His father. Now see his name – Krishna, the name was given by Radhaji. That was his mother, Mahalaxmi. She is Mahalaxmi. She gives Him the name as Christ. Is Christ for Krishna. And the Jesus name comes because you see – I have read the Bible in Marathi, which is translated directly from Hebrew. Comes from the word Yashoda – Yesu. We call it Yesu or Jesu. That is how the name Jesus came in. She wanted to give the name Yesu after Yashodaji. That is how Jesus was [inaudible].

But is tapasya, is “tapa” (penance). Now see how it relates to Veda. Today I told you, that lecture they must hear. It is very interesting how it is integration. You see if it is a saint, he will integrate everything. If he is not a saint, he will create, “Oh we are different, they are different”. That is not a sign of a saint. Saint means to bring “samagrata” (collectivity). And the people who are not saints will create analysis – you are different, he is different. All the saints have tried to bring them together. See Nanaka. In India, whatever saints you read, they want to bring all people together. They want them together. They want to say against all kind of wrong things done in society. Everything that is wrong in ritualism, everything; that is a sign of a saint. 

Now, we are talking about Christ, that how it is related to tapa. Now if you know about Vedas – the right-side movement as you call it. When you read, when you listen to you my lecture, it will be very good for you. Then what happens is that they have discussed the essences of the chakras. The essence is tattva. They are on the tattvas. Because they wanted to talk about Nirakara. Because if you talk about sakara, we get lost in the flowers. So they said, let us talk of the honey. That became talk, this became talk. You have to become being. That is the point they missed. 

So the essence in that is that bhoomi is the essence of Mooladhara chakra. The essence of Mooladhara chakra is bhoomi. First chakra. Essence of the second chakra is bhuru. Antariksha (space). Is Brahmadeva, second chakra. The essence of the third chakra, Nabhi chakra is swaha. Is the Vishnu. The essence of the fourth chakra, the fourth one is of the Jagdamba. Is mana, is the mother. She is the one who looks after our mana, our emotions. She gives us life. Then Shri Krishna here, jana. He is the Virata. He is the Virat. He is Jana. And then comes the tapa. And at this point is Sahasrara, satya. Tapa is Jesus and Satya here. Satya is the Truth. That is to be discovered at this level because of udhogati. Satya cannot be discovered in adhogati but in the udhogati. So, how it integrates everything. 

But, the problem is, when we have issues, we want to disintegrate. Fragmentation of the chitta. You are from Kerala, you are from Madras. I am from here. I am from this village. Then I am from this road and I am from this house. We are part and parcel of the whole. Virat.

What is Virat, do you know? It is Akbar. The mantra for Virata, when you reach Vishuddhi chakra here, is Shri Krishna’s place. When you cannot cross it you have to put these fingers of Shri Krishna, with which He put His chakras, Sudarshana. You have to put in your finger, you have to put your hands up and say, “Allah O Akbar”. Meaning the Virata. He also talked of Shri Krishna. But not of Sadashiva. So in the whole Virata “vigraha” (division), Shri Krishna resides in the brain, in the heart resides Sadashiva, in the Kailasha and in the liver resides [inaudible/the Mother]. Christ has said also that those who are not against us are with us. But nobody tried to find out. Those who are not against us are with us. Everybody has to understand that unless and until you become a realised soul, one cannot [inaudible/proceed/progress]. Like supposing, a person there is a blind man, how can you talk to him about colours? 

In the same way, this is the most important that whatever religion you belong, whatever race, caste, community or anything; first get your realisation. Where you know your Spirit – which is absolute, which is all-pervading. And which is the collective Being? He makes – the Spirit will make you understand you are part and parcel of the whole. Because who is the other? I can feel you on my fingertips. Who is the other? You are inside Me. Who is there? 

So what missionary work are you doing? See, when they do social work, they develop such a terrible ego, isn’t it? Because we are doing social work. Or just a social worker that is all. What are we achieving – nothing. God’s work is such, just sitting down here you can do it. What is the need? You do not even have to bother about raising your hand. It just works out – that is God. It is so all-pervading. The whole machinery, the system is all built-in. Absolutely built-in. You just jump in there. The whole system you are having has to be changed, has to be transformed into the system of God. You have to enter into the Kingdom of God. And you have to use that system. Otherwise, your problems cannot be solved. 

But first, you must know that you are Bharatiyas and that your roots are in this country. Which is the most important? Tantrikas have spoilt us. Even our temples they have spoilt, do you know? Outside the temple if you have seen it here, [inaudible], I have seen it in Tirupati also, I have seen it also in Jagannath Puri and all of these places; outside of the temple that they make – they call it a “fertility”, they call it. All of these are erotic things. But we do not see. We just see God. Our eyes do not go there. But if you bring a foreigner, he will put a zoom lens and go and see. They do it. You listen to this lecture of mine. It is very interesting, about the same thing, but in a different, direct way because I am talking to Sahaja Yogis. You better listen to it. But first of all, I would request you to get your realisation. That is the best way. And then you write it, is the best way. Isn’t it?

So are there any more questions? For knowledge? If there are, I would suggest you get your realisation. And if there are more questions, you want to know more or anything – there is no end to knowledge. I must have given thousands of lectures. I do not know how my throat does not give in. Every day I am giving lectures after lectures. And every time I say something – these boys say, “Mother, every time you say something”. Better is to listen to some of My tapes, which you may have; I will send it and you use your media for spreading the Truth. As journalists, you have to be witness, “sakshi”. And “sakshiswaroop pada” (witness state) you get when you establish your Vishuddhi. So for that, it is important you get your realisation. And then we talk about it. 

So the “salilam, salilam” (cool breeze) has to come out of your Brahmarandra. All right? [Inaudible, probably Mother has given realisation and then audio resumes].

Shri Mataji: Such nice people I never met. It is a historical moment. You should have written down their names in golden words, I tell you. First time I met some people who understand God.

Someone: From the press.

Shri Mataji: Ah?

Someone: From the press.

Shri Mataji: From the press. Of course. We had one horrible one from the “Illustrated Weekly”. “I do not believe in any God”. I said, “Then why do you come here?”. I mean they think no end of themselves; media is the one which is taking to adhogati more than anyone else. Can you think of media, such enlightened media in the West? Can you think – take their photographs and show them? 

Someone/Press person: I mean, this is such a privilege to be here. You, but what respect and knowledge that these gentlemen apply themselves.

Shri Mataji: Such ignorant people live there, I tell you. To exist with such ignorant people, I tell you, is a real “vanvasa” (exile) for Me. Now my husband was re-elected, re-elected, re-elected unanimously – three times. Now fourth time again. Now, I said Rama had only fourteen years in vanvasa, I will have sixteen years in foreign. It is too much.

But look at them. How they are going to exist there. They are now realised, souls. Horrible. 

We have had a very good session of seven days. At Ganapatipule. It is one of the Ashtavinayakas. And the Vinayaka, only the part from here to here, you can see in the form of Vigraha. The head is the whole mountain. And if you are a realised soul, you can see the light coming out of the mountain. And the seashore is very beautiful. And we went and stayed there. Now the MTDC (Maharashtra Tourism Development Corporation) troubled us a lot, no doubt, does not matter. But now we are going to get some land out there and we are going to build our proper ashrams. But I heard that the tourism department wants to exploit it for these horrible tourists coming from abroad and lying there. You see the Ganesha will really drown them in the sea, I tell you. He should. Such “apavitra” (impure) people should not be brought there. And there is already “gutka” (tobacco) and “sharab” (liquor) that are bought there. Already. Everything should be exploited. Tomorrow they will even exploit Shri Ganesha. This is what our government is doing.

Press person: Name.Ganesh?

Shri Mataji: What, which name? Ganapatipule.

Press: Ganapatipule.

Shri Mataji: You should make another issue. Not with Me, they will come to bite me. That fellow is from Nagpur. The one who is trying to exploit that. He will be in my life. I will tell him, no doubt, but he will be at my face, “Why did you tell them?”. But this is what it is. That is one of the places, is Ashtavinayaka. You have no business to exploit it like this. And they have already got this MTDC, these big things there. Where there is outside, they have given license to a person to sell wine. Now, this Ganapatipule – this Ganapati is a great type of Ganapati. Mahaganapati, He is a Mahaganapati. And this Ganapati always wants a goat to be sacrificed. See this “ahimsa” (non-violence) business is another terrible stuff. He wants a goat. So the Brahmins objected – we will not give you the goat. Within three years’ time, all the children got sick and some children died. They gave up. They are now giving “bokadas”, goat as you call it. They are giving one goat. 

Now, this point of ahimsa should also be explained, very clearly. They say that in Gita, Shri Krishna has preached ahimsa. It is not so. I do not know from where they got this idea. Maybe one sentence could be there, but actually what Shri Krishna had preached – at the time when Arjuna went into “kaivalya” (compassion). And he felt he should not kill his gurus and his relations, Shri Krishna told him you have to kill. Then how can it be ahimsa? When Karana’s foot was stuck, you know that – in the wheel, he asked Arjuna, “See now, I am a “Veera” (brave warrior) and you are a Veera, how can you put your arrow through me. When I am “nishastra”(unarmed)?”. Shri Krishna said, “Then what happened to you, your veerata when Draupadi’s chastity was challenged? Kill him”. His main thing is to kill all these rakshasas. And all those who are adharmis. Those who were mediocre. Karna was mediocre. Some there were compromisers with the evil. All of them He said you should kill. 

Mother would say, try to save as much as possible. And He said to kill all of them. So how do you talk of ahimsa? Now this Jainism type of ahimsa, where they try to save the bugs and put it on to a Brahmin, you know that. They take the – you do not have any Jainese here?

[Inaudible reply].

See, what they do– they have Shwetambaras and they have Digambaras. And they fight. That is all. That is their religion nowadays. Now these people, what they do, they take some bugs and put a Brahmin in a hut. And put these bugs in the hut. And the bugs have to take the blood of the Brahmins. And when the bugs are fulfilled, then they give the money to the Brahmin. This is ahimsa. And they do not kill. But the worst is, we went to America with a Jain guru, actually, she opened my eyes to their stupidity. So every day – there is only one bathroom in that house, she used to take one hour; while I used to take only five minutes. I said, what is she doing there? She said, “Have you seen that stick?”. Her husband was the first Sahaja Yogi. He was a very enlightened man. He said, “You see, she is a Jain. So she moves the stick there, stirs it up so that all the insects and worms and all that should crawl out. And then she [inaudible/rushes/washes] it”. Horrible. And that is what they do. In Bombay, these people, some ashramas they have got. They make some ladies, young girls, make them into sadhavis. Then they make some young men into what you call them, gurus, sadhus. They walk nude on the streets, very nicely, walk nude on the streets, these sadhus. And these sadhvis are there. And the sadhvis are made from the age of twelve or something like that. Like nuns. And they talk all their “ushtas” (leftovers), put on one hill there. Because all the worms must kill. 

Now, this also to make God nude like Mahavira, I just do not understand these stupid people. Because what happened was that Mahavira was meditating. And when he was coming in this meditative mood, you see half of his “vastra” (dress) was caught up by the bush. Half he was carrying, when Shri Krishna went to take his test. He said, “You are such a yogi, why do you want a cloth. I am nude, I need a cloth”. So his cloth, but it was only for a second or so. He hid himself properly and he went into his “mahal” (palace). Because he was a “raja” (king). So the king wore his dress. Now they have carved this in such details, these dirty people, I tell you. And now there is a big fight – they have found these “Parshawanathas” (one of the founders of Jainism), I told you the story. Fact, you know. And now the people are fighting who should worship them. The Supreme court gave a decision; half-day Shwetambaras, half-day Digambaras. So half day he is Hari, he is dressed up with all his ornaments. The half-day he becomes Shiva, without any ornaments. (Laughs). 

If we do such stupidity, who is going to believe. Because of our stupidity, we have lost our grounds completely. Then these Hare Ramas. Who are they? Another stupid people. Why should we have them near us? See, I went to Ahmednagar. These people were with Me. So the newspaper people said, “Mother, I hope they are not Hare Ramas”. I said, ”Why?”. So, they said, in olden days – Marathi language is very humorous. You see, we used to give sugar to the ants because of dharma, you see, “daan” (charity). We used to give sugar to the ants. Nowadays we have sugar factories, so we do not have to give sugar – a lot of sugar available. So the rich people of Pune, some Punjabis I think; they have got these people from England and all the places to give them sugar as we would give to the ants. They could not find the ants now to give the sugar, so they are giving sugar to these people. But when the sugar is finished, they are out now in all the villages – and they are begging. They are begging, they are real beggars. 

And in that, if you go and see in London – in Oxford Street, you see, they shave their heads, put an artificial kind of – what do you call it, “shendi” (top knot). “Shikha”, that shikha. Artificial. You get it in the supermarket. And they stuck it here. And wear a dhoti or a saree in a very lousy manner. And they jump there – all their dhotis fall down, their saris fall down, they have a “pakhvaj” (a type of musical drum) in the hand, in a very unsystematic manner. He is very shy – but it is true. They have “no tala, no sura” (no rhythm or sound), nothing. They are just stupidly singing you know. I just said, “Stupid people”. And you ask them anything they will say, “Hare Rama, Hare Krishna, Hare Rama”. And they are getting now cancer of the throat.

So, this is another insult to our culture that we send them. And then other gurus who have gone there as you know – they have made six thousand crores. Another has made six thousand, ah, cars, he has got six thousand diamonds. What is this? Then another one taking out “vibhutis” (ash), this, that – this comes from “smashana” (funeral ground). All this nonsense is going on, how can people have faith in it? Nothing genuine. Such falsehood. This is what we should – dharmandata; we are suffering from dharmandata. But the best part is nobody has talked about self-realisation. Even Ramakrishna Parmahansa has not talked about self-realisation. I am really surprised by this man. Why didn’t he say that you must get your realisation? 

Even Vivekananda, see, like big lectures, big lectures. Everybody who reads Vivekananda is like a madman I think. Arya Samaj? Really? They talk so big, nothing inside them. Kundalini is frozen talking about big, big things. I said how do I read [inaudible]. That is why Kabira has said, “Padhi, padhi pandit murakh bhai”. All the panditas have become murkhas by the day. This is what happens. If they talk on Gita, they think they are Vyasa themselves. None of them, I tell you, none of them, talk of self-realisation. The main thing. When I talk about it, they criticise Me, they are angry with Me. Why not Chinmayanand talk also about self-realisation? He also charges five hundred rupees for his “padya puja” (worshipping the feet). I know all that. He is just doing social work. That is all he is doing. He is a missionary. They make him Christian, that is the best way. 

I tell you, you people should really take to Truth and say this is what we have to achieve. It is not a business. It is not money-making. At least bring the image of Bharatiya sanskriti higher. Above the level of its damnation. Otherwise, how will you save this Universe? Such responsibility for you. Indians are responsible, not only, they will be held responsible. Opening schools, hospitals, this, that is not our job. Yogakshema Vahamyam – take yoga and you will get the kshema in your hands. All right? Isn’t it true? Ask him. They come with problems – money problems, this. After realisation Mother, everything got solved. You see, you have got your Atma, you are one with God who is the giver of everything. Why should you worry about anything else and you can get it so easily? Establish yourself as realised souls. This diversion must be finished. Intellectual diversion or you can call it, this ritualistic diversion; all this must be finished. Take to reality – Satya. Take to reality. All we are diverting our attention, energy into [End of recording].