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“God’s Shakti is the power of love”, Wimbledon (UK), 5 March 1986.
It’s such a great thing to meet your children after such a long time. And this country was really pestered with cold so I had to come here I think, just to make you feel warmer with love. It’s a very heartening thing to see so many people who are in England, who are Sahaj Yogis.
As you know England has to do tremendous effort to keep Sahaja Yoga afloat; not only that, but you have to set in examples for others. As England is the heart of the universe it circulates. Whatever example you set in, circulates. People try to follow you. As I have told you before also, that English people should not try to follow other people but establish their own proper character. But not to be insular by which you don’t appreciate anybody else or you cannot understand international relationships. We are one world and it’s only one great Viraat in Whose being we circulate.
Moreover for the people who are from the heart, [they] have to be much more open and moving and giving because that’s the job of the cell of blood that passes through [the] heart; and that’s how you are made specially for this.
I have been speaking after you finished your tour on a subject in India. But I think it is more related to us here in the West than to Indians. And that is something we have to understand: that we are in the midst of terrible conditions, horrible conditions which are taking us to hell. And we realise how important it is for us to get together and save this area which we called as ‘the Western world’.
So I have already given a little talk which you may hear when you have this seminar or this Shiv puja. But I would like to tell you about it: that Shri Krishna, a long time back, told that the roots of the awareness are in the brain, but the human awareness grows downward. That’s how we have grown downward. We have grown towards things which, if allowed to grow that way, may take us away completely from the roots.
Now if you start the movement, as I said, from Bhavasagara, from the evolutionary process, of going downward. Now in the Bhavasagara that is in the viscera of the stomach and all these places, we have a capacity, what we call as of consumption. We can even consume the poison. The liver can consume the poison; it has the capacity to consume the poison as heat and then it delivers the heat to the water of the bloodstream.
So the capacity we have to consume all those things makes us, what we call ‘swahaa’: ‘swahaa’ means ‘consumption’. And from this consumption, when we consume all these things: we consume our ego, we consume our conditioning, we consume all those things which are detrimental to our growth [then] we become ‘swadhaa’. ‘Swa’ is the Spirit and ‘dha’ is the dharma. We get the dharma of the Spirit. And you know what is the dharma of the Spirit is – is Sahaj, Sahaja.
But when we start going downward only with our awareness, from the Nabhi Chakra we start moving downward, what happens to us [is] that we move to the second position of Swadhishthana and the Swadhishthana has got the essence, I mean, has got the capacity to be ‘bhurvah’. ‘Bhurvah’ means the whole Creation, the universe that is created. That’s how we get creativity through Swadhishthana. So when we start moving downward, what happens to us [is] we go to all the stars and the planets and all that are created, that’s what we are doing, wasting our energy for nothing at all. But apart from that in the wrong way when we move, our attention goes to creativity which is destructive, which is negative, which brings death, which suggests insipidness. Like the art today is, when you see the art, you don’t know whether to vomit, to run away or to cry. So that explains why people are producing such horrid things and when you look at them you don’t understand what is this going on. So the art, the creativity, in every way, the creativity of every kind becomes so horrid.
So the third stage is that we go to ‘bhuh’. ‘Bhuh’ is this Mother Earth. Mother Earth is the one which also creates Shri Ganesh. Now when we go towards Mother Earth we start extracting Mother Earth, taking out all that is precious, that is needed out of proportion – because we have got machines. Now we have got machines so we must produce. The machine must produce more and more and more, out of proportion it should go on. And when it wants to continue it has to go on that way so that you feed the machine to produce more.
Now this production is useless! There is no need to have so much production for us. You see plastics after plastics, then there’s nylons after nylons, then there’s all kinds of polyester and I don’t know all kinds of things that they have started producing. All man-made nonsense that they have. There’s no need to have so much. Then we go on accumulating things and that’s how we become extremely materialistic people.
Actually to be materialistic in the real sense is that we understand the value of matter. And the value of the matter is aesthetics. Artistic things, real artistic things. And beyond that the value of matter is that you can give love to others through that matter: by giving as presents, by your generosity. So you lose that also! That power also you lose. That is, you start extracting your Mother Earth in such a way that you don’t know what to do with the acid gas that is coming out of these productions and then all your trees are getting destroyed. It’s so destructive. The whole thing is so destructive.
So then you move to the essence of Mooladhara which is innocence. And when it is innocence, you start attacking innocence. Now you read horrible things, when you come here. I got the jitters when I heard about the six year old girl and a three year old girl: I just can’t bear it. Supposing that was my child what would have happened to me? And it’s my child. That’s how I feel. Then we are attacking the innocence everywhere in every place and we have no sense of Mooladhar. That’s how we go down. And one step forward where do we go? Into hell. That is our movement. We are going towards hell! Straight forward, our movement is towards hell! Because I have explained in that little talk, you can hear it again, that, when you see the steps, you see the downward steps, then you just see the platforms which are very good, maybe of marble, very attractive, very sensational, whatever you may call it. And you feel like going down, it’s easy to go down with the gravity because you have come out from amoeba state or even earlier from carbon stage, so you feel it’s easy to go down. It’s much easier to go down, so you go on stepping on these steps and go down. You don’t see the heights.
But when you are going higher, rising higher then you start seeing the heights. And when you see the heights what do you see from down below?
Absolutely this is our task. From the hell we have to pull out people up. That’s hell! And this is what we call as the ‘adhogati’ – going downward. ‘Adhogati’ – going downward. We have to take to ‘Urdhvagati’ ( ऊर्ध्वगति)- going higher. How do we go higher? Only Kundalini is the way. That you can see clearly.
Even people who try to go higher without the Kundalini, say from Nabhi upwards, how do they do it? They go up to mana, this is the emotional side, that’s the motherhood. And you go against the mother. When you go there what you find [is] that you get attached to this woman, that woman, then that thing. It goes on to this family, to other things and again you come down.
Then you go ahead, you go into ‘janah’ – is the one which is what we call ‘the public’, ‘the others’. ‘Janah’ is ‘the public’, is the Viraata’s place. As you know this is the Viraata’s place. And when you go to that place, to Viraata’s place, what happens to you [is] that you start becoming very conscious of yourself, “Oh, I am a public man. I am a public person. This is my reputation. I am this and I am that.” And then you start exploiting people with your politics and all other things like that. And you develop your egos; all kinds of nonsensical things.
With your mana, from your centre heart, you develop also your conditionings and that’s how you develop a funny personality which is not urdhvagati, which is not going higher, but is actually giving you additional problems on your back!
Then the third thing is here at the Agnya, as I told you, you develop your ego. The other day Patrick rang me up to say, “Mother, why are we developing our Agnyas so much nowadays?” I said, “Stop reading newspapers!” The prime ministers are fighting for their seats and this and that and if you read newspapers you will also feel that you are a prime minister [and] you better fight it. Because when you see a picture or any drama sometimes you get identified and you think, “I am Napoleon myself!” So don’t read newspapers! Don’t read about these mad people who are just trying to overpower each other. Like this [Ferdinand] Marcos fellow. The other day somebody said that, “Mother, you get rid of this Marcos!” Now he’s out! So many will be out but what about us? Do we have some of them within our heads? Do we also have the same ideas of materialism or ego or all these trips that these people have had? So as a result, when you see these things, on the contrary, you should try to avoid it and jump on to urdhvagati.
Then you go higher, from there, in the head is the Sat, is the Truth. That’s what you discover, Truth; should discover in the normal way. But in the abnormal conditions when you try just to climb up to the brain, what happens is that whatever you know through your mental conception becomes the truth. Everyone is like that.
You see, about religion you will find a person believes that, “This is the truth. Now this is the truth!” “I am the one who represents Christianity”, “I am the one who represents Mohammad Sahib”, “I am the one who represents Nanak Sahib”, “I am the one who represents Shri Rama, Shri Krishna.” None of them represent. It’s just a concept. And with that concept if you move about like that then what happens [is] you just get stuck on to that idea. That is how fanaticism comes in as far as religion is concerned. There are many, many things like that, “This is a concept and that’s the fact, and that’s the truth and that’s what I believe in this!” But why do you believe in that? Who are you? When they say, “I believe,” just go and ask them, “Who are you after all to believe in that?” That’s Mr. Ego, that’s all.
Then there are people who are conditioned. And that’s what, whatever is their conditioning, they think, “This is the conditioning. This is the thing I am brought up. This is how I have lived and this is how I am, and this is what is the truth.” Both things are absurd, mythical. That’s not the Truth.
So when you start through your urdhvagati, through your Kundalini you see the height. You see that, “Now we have to rise! We have to rise. Rise with our innocence. We have to get to our innocence.” We have to be innocent people. But even in Sahaja Yoga you will find some people, I call them sometimes like monkeys, jump from urdhvagati to adhogati, adhogati to urdhvagati. You don’t know which side they are going! You have to hold on to these steps which you have got. First is the innocence. Your morality, as you call that, or a chastity. That’s the first step you have to achieve. Unless and until you achieve that step how are you going to go further? But it’s the other way round. They think if you tell something very truthfully to Mother, “I have had five love affairs, I have had six abortions, ten this thing, then Mother is going to be very happy with me,” because they have told the truth. That’s not the truth. That’s not what is wanted. Are you now a chaste person?
Have you got the ideas of chastity and dharma? That is the second step you can move into. Aesthetically, are you rich aesthetically, are you generous? Can you appreciate the art of every country? Or you just say, “Oh it’s not good because it’s not English!”? Or “It’s not good because it’s not French!”? Or maybe, “It’s not from Wimbledon!” Could come to that point! I mean, what is happening to us? We are becoming so insular, so small, so narrow in our outlook, that’s impossible. We cannot appreciate another person at all. You ask anyone, everybody has an opinion about others, what about yourself? What is your opinion about yourself? Can you laugh at yourself? And when I am giving lecture we also sometimes think that Mother is talking about somebody xyz, not about me. That’s not so. We have to project to ourselves and find out: are we in chastity? Are we in dharma? Have we achieved that? Have we achieved our innocence? Have our eyes achieved that innocence, that simplicity, that power?
So then we move up higher on the bhurvah state where we have to know: are we aesthetically equipped? Do we have proper aesthetics? In our behaviour, in our dress, in our lifestyle, in everything? Or are we still going on with the same things? Like some hippies when they come to Sahaja Yoga, it’s impossible to make them understand that – no more hippies now! Then some come from another group, another funny style, then they have the same style of behaviour. No! ‘Sahaja’: we have to be in the Sahaja style, which is a common style for all the Sahaja Yogis all over the world to dress up decently, to talk decently, to have sweet words, no harsh words, no anger, no temper, nothing of the kind. But very, very gentle and a dignified personality.
Now here some of the so-called dignified also can be very bhootish, I have seen that. They can be very dignified and they can be very inauspicious. So another quality of innocence, which is auspiciousness; or we can say the combination of innocence and bhurvah state is auspiciousness. Does your house give auspiciousness? Does your countenance give auspiciousness? Is your talk auspicious? Is it a mantra when you talk? Have you purified yourself so much that everything that you do, every movement that you have, is auspicious? Is it blissful to be in your house? To be in your company? To be with you? Is it blissful? Let us direct ourselves to ourselves and see that: are we blissful? Are we emitting vibrations that are good? It’s a very tremendous task because you have to do it! You have to do it! Nobody else is going to do it! If you want to save this world, you must know it’s a tremendous task and one has to go into a tapah for that, to know that you have to be pure people. Otherwise there could be hypocrites. There are many who are Sahaja Yogis and not at all Sahaja Yogis.
Sahaja Yoga is not for hypocrites at all. You cannot be a hypocrite. You have to be what you preach, what you say, what you understand and what we stand for. It’s not like this, “Oh I am a Christian, all right, I am a Christian, but it’s all right, I can have adulterous eyes, all right because after all, you see it’s all allowed.” “Then what else?” “Oh, I can drink, smoke.” “What else?” “Oh, I can also kill some people, it doesn’t matter you see. It’s all right I’m Christian after all.” How are you a Christian? Then, “I am a Hindu, you see I am a perfect Hindu, but doesn’t matter if I try to discriminate between Sikhs and Hindus, doesn’t matter.” How, why? There’s no discrimination allowed in Hinduism. No discrimination of any kind. Everybody has the same Atma. How can you discriminate? How can you have dowry system in a Hindu society? How can you have any caste system in a Hindu society? You cannot have, just cannot have. It’s not the religion.
So they speak one thing, do another thing, it’s all hypocrites and all fanatics. And that’s how they become fanatics! Like you ask Bishop of Canterbury, he says that, “Holy Ghost, I don’t know, I am agnostic about it! I am doing my job!” That’s all! This kind of frivolous attitude or we can say a very hypocritical attitude is not for the Sahaja Yogis. They have to be what they are preaching, what they are standing for. They cannot have that kind of a personality that one can say, “Oh, I have seen this hypocritical fellow, calls himself Sahaja Yogi!” We can’t! There has to be somebody who is genuine, who is real, who is truthful. We cannot live with that kind of a compromise. We have to be what we are because we have got the light of the Spirit.
So then you go ahead and you have to become the higher personality of a guru through consumption. Consume, how much I consume! Go on consuming all the time. This time I came, I am consuming your Left Vishuddhis, I am consuming your viruses. I don’t know, in two days I must have consumed oceans and oceans of troubles. No, we don’t consume at all! Because if somebody says something to us we must come back with a harsh word, somehow or other to kill that person that is finished forever – that’s smartness. We can consume all that. That consumption is taught by Christ very well. Can we consume? No! We come out with big, big talks and big, big things, you see, “We must do this, we must do that!” We are not here union leaders, are we? We don’t want to appear in the newspapers or anything. What we want [is] to consume, we are here to consume things. Newspapers are to advertise, expand it. We are here to consume all that is bad. Do you follow your responsibility please?
Consume [all] that is wrong. How do we consume? Through meditation, through prayers. Now this is happening in this country. What are we doing about it? So we have to consume it, not to get into explosions, not to get into expressions, but to consume it.
Then you become swadhaa. ‘Swadhaa’ is that you become the dharma of the Spirit – ‘swa’, ‘dha’. You sustain that dharma within yourself. Then you become that. It’s not any kind of hypocrisy about it. I mean, if I say, “Don’t drink.” You shouldn’t drink wine. I don’t drink at all I mean, no question! I mean, you cannot make me drink even if you want to. If I say, “Don’t tell lies!” then you don’t tell lies. You don’t just do it because you have to just say that way, or you say that, “Don’t kill!” I cannot kill anyone. I cannot be tempted. In the same way you all have to feel, “I cannot do it, I cannot be tempted. How can I be tempted?” Say, “I shouldn’t get into tempers. I shouldn’t be angry for nothing at all.” For the slightest thing, people just jump into a temper. That means, “I should not be tempted to do that.” That wisdom, that dignity, that balance, that poise must come into a Sahaja Yogi. Unless and until that comes into you who is going to believe you that you have achieved anything of this transformation? You are still on adhogati, sometimes into urdhvagati. Then going into adhogati, again to urdhvagati. You are jumping from one to another.
So now you move on to another higher level, is from there to [where], what you call, the ‘Mahalakshmi tattwa’ starts; where you start jumping on to a much higher position where it is mana. ‘Mana’ is emotions. Your emotions become compassion. Now see the difference between emotions and compassion: is very different. When the tree hasn’t got flowers it takes, when it gets the flower, it gives, it gives the fragrance. In the same way, when you become the compassion, you give. You don’t expect how others treat you, how others behave towards you, but you think [that] by giving you will win over the person. You give. And that is what you have got: to give compassion through your vibrations. But to have that you have to be swadhaa. Unless and until you have that you cannot give vibrations either.
So then all these smaller ideas, “It’s my wife, my husband, my child, my house, my this, my brother, my sister.” In the beginning everybody comes up with the whole family list. They may not have seen their father for ten years but they’ll come, “My father is sick, Mother cure him first. I have not seen him for ten years.” Doesn’t matter! So every person becomes a liability on Mother that all the relations, all the great grand parents and all the great grand children must be cured by Sahaja Yoga. But there is no compassion! And in compassion you do not see these relations. So, when you become the compassion, before this you are to be enlightened. You are to be enlightened, you have no light, you don’t know how to walk the path, you don’t know how to go round, you don’t know how to know others, you don’t know where you are sitting. If in a group, you put off the lights everybody starts hitting each other or trampling over each other because they don’t know. But now the lights are on. So you know how you are related to each other. You are under the light. You can see each other. You can feel each other. You can understand each other. That’s how the compassion works. Compassion works automatically – you don’t have to do much about it. But know that you have to be a compassion.
But if you are still are a person wanting others to love you then it won’t work out. How much did you love them? Is your love for another person doubted? Do you doubt? Then you are not compassion. In that love you may even scold the person, you may even shout at the person. But the love should be there for the benevolence. So the compassion should be for the benevolence of the person. If you are not benevolent you have not been compassionate. Like spoiling somebody, spoiling your child, spoiling your wife, spoiling your husband. This is not compassion! Compassion is a pure ray of beautiful light of God’s love which gives benevolence to another person, hita.
So that should happen to you when you talk of compassion. You go further with the janah – public. Those people who cannot carry on with Sahaja Yogis are absolutely useless people. These are the cream, these are the best people in the whole world. Of course some are like this, doesn’t matter. But they are the topmost people, they are the people wedded to such high ideals. Where do you get anybody with idealism? You go to the UN, you go anywhere you find people, they have no idealism of any kind. It’s only for the job, only for the money, or this or that, [that] they are working there. You are the people who have idealism. You are the people who are striving for something higher. You are the people who are going to save the whole world. And those who cannot carry on with Sahaja Yogis and find faults with Sahaja Yogis are really no good for us. They should get out of Sahaja Yoga.
What is your public? First and foremost is Sahaja Yogis. The rest of them are outsiders so far. But your attitude should be that you have to pull them out. You have to emancipate. You have to be kind to them. You have to be compassionate. And you have to bring them to Sahaja Yoga. You have to be extremely nice to them. But more than that you have to be very, very, extremely nice to Sahaja Yogis. I can’t understand Sahaja Yogis being nice to others and not to their own clan or you can call whatever you may call it – to their own brothers and sisters. When I see Sahaja Yogis together loving each other, being kind to each other and also giving some good news about each other I feel extremely happy. That’s one of the most joyous times for me. When I find that you are giving.
So then you come to the point where you are in the public, you are in the public. You have to circulate now. You have to articulate in the public. You have to move in the public. You are not only for a secluded group of Sahaja Yogis, you are not that. But you have to articulate, you have to circulate. Now for that, what should we do? You have to understand that we have to form other groups, other things by which we can circulate. Let’s see now in England we can form some societies. Let’s form some society which are not what we call them as the Sahaja Yogas. Because you are different from them. So now let us form some societies. We form certain societies, say let us form a society where we talk about the decadence of this country; how the decadence has come in, why it is there, why are we spoiling our young children, why are we behaving like this. Let us see. Let us start a society under this name. Let us start a society which will fight all social problems. Like I said in India: let us start a society which is against dowry system. That’s how you will circulate with them. And later on when they come up to a point they will see your character and then you can talk to them about Sahaja Yoga.
Like these women have, what is that called? ‘Women’s lib’ and all that. I mean, it is nonsense, you know that very well. But they have formed the society, so they are there, they are circulating. We have to have sensible, wise people forming a society. So from Sahaja Yoga group we have to move to society: where you need not talk about Sahaja Yoga, you need not tell them there is emancipation. But let us circulate through them and let them know about dharma. Forming no religion as such. It’s inner religion as we have. Just without any religion you can start it off. So that’s how you meet the public. There are many such ways, which you can think, by which you can meet the public. And then you have to know you are the part and parcel of your Mother.
There are three things asked from God: that there is salokya, that, “Oh God, We should be able to see you,” salokya. Samipya is, “Oh God, let us have your company.” And third one is, “Oh God let us have a rapport with you.” Rapport with you. Rapport with you. These are the three things are asked from God. But the fourth thing that has happened to you is tadatmya, means you have become part and parcel of my body. As a result of that you have to keep your body all right, you have to be pure people, you have to be sensible, otherwise I get into trouble. But it’s a very venturesome thing I have done, doesn’t matter, I don’t mind. But you people look after yourselves. You be sensible people. And when you have funny ideas in your head, know that these funny ideas can trouble our Mother very much. So out of love for me, you have to keep loving yourself.
And you can love yourself only if you have pure intelligence to know what is frivolous, what is nonsensical, whatever is asahaj.
So you move like one body, always support each other. If one person is troubled the rest of them should help. That’s how the collectivity is going to work out. Not to criticise each other, to sit down and just to show off. So then you rise even higher to this state of Jesus Christ, Mahavira and Buddha. Then what do you have to do? Is tapaha, is the penance. You have to do the penance. Like living in Brahmapuri was a penance, I thought, but you all enjoyed it bit too much. Or Ganapatipule, you thought it was too much. Some people did do some penance by sitting in the sun! (laughing) But penance means ‘sacrifice’. Sacrifice. Without feeling the sacrifice, do the work as a sacrifice. You are bound by work. We have to work. Human beings have to work. But the work that is a sacrifice is the most nourishing thing, is the most joy-giving thing. And that’s what happened: in Brahmapuri I must say it was very spartan, both for you and for your hosts it was quite a funny place to live in. And one snake crawled into somebody’s shoes I am told, but still you all enjoyed it because you didn’t feel the sacrifice. It was in a way [a] sacrifice for both the parties I think: your hosts and the guests. But you still enjoyed. And that’s what it is. Now you will enjoy your sacrifices. Apart from all other virtues you will enjoy your sacrifices. That is one of the quality of the Spirit, because you are so detached. You will enjoy it! So that’s how you come to the state of tapah.
And the last is satya, is the truth. That is what is in the brain as Shri Krishna has described, are the roots where you have to go. Of course, the doors are open to you. You must know that you know the truth! You know the truth, nobody else. Are you aware of this, that you are the only few people under this roof who know the truth? The rest don’t know any truth whatsoever. So you have to be compassionate to them because they are blind, they can’t see. As we are kind to the blind people we have to be kind to the people who do not know the truth. You know the truth! And the truth is that you are the Spirit.
And then you know, through all miracles, that you are walking in the Kingdom of Heaven. That you are blessed by God and that you are looked after by Him. So many miracles happen, so many of these, that suggest that you are really looked after by God Almighty. So many beautiful things have happened to you. Just think of them one by one from where to where we have come. From down below hell rising up one by one, step by step, now we have come to the brain. Thanks to our Kundalinis that we have come up there, that the Mother has brought you there. This Kundalini which is your Mother has brought you there. Respect Her and respect your Realisation. Respect each other and know that you are higher than billions and billions of people of this earth. You are special people and as that you have to behave in the most humble, respectable and a loving manner.
I say love is the highest. Everyone who has developed a language of love is working out God’s wish because God’s wish, His desire, His iccha, that Shakti, is the power of love. We work out everything with hatred: what’s wrong with that person, what’s wrong with that house, what’s wrong with this association, with that. That is all hatred. But let’s see what’s good with that, what’s nice, what’s joyful. When your eyes turn that way, when your attitudes turn like that, then you must know that you are Sahaj Yogis.
For that Christ has given us a big weapon called forgive, forgive, forgive. And the truth has dawned upon you. You know the truth. Through your vibrations you know, through your vibratory awareness you know. But, there is a very big ‘but’ for which I have to tell you again and again and I am telling you again today which is the most important thing for a Sahaj Yogi – is to use your vibratory awareness. They don’t! They just don’t use their vibratory awareness. In judging others they never use their vibratory awareness. Then how do we say they are special people? Because you have the same eyes, you have nose. What about your vibratory awareness? Did you see the vibrations when you did something? You did not! That’s why the mistakes. Because these vibrations come as an indication from something that is your Spirit, which is an absolute thing, which is in absolute state – it is not relative. It’s absolute. So whatever information it gives you is absolute. And you should take to that absolute understanding. This is where we miss.
So today just before Shiva Puja, Shiva Puja is the puja of the Spirit within you. It’s the Spirit within you. And for this puja specially you have to determine that now we will use our vibratory awareness to judge something. “I think…” is not there. “I think…” is a wrong idea. I know through vibratory awareness. We have to develop a word for this, which we say, “I feel…” it could be something nonsensical. But you really, as they say in Marathi there’s a word, ‘zanee’: is a feeling. But it’s a new awareness. Through this awareness, this Divine awareness, through that, you have to judge everything, to know everything, and to do everything through that. This is what we have to use. And when we start doing that then you will know that God is working out everything for us. It’s so simple. Life becomes much simpler. All your complications, all your angers, all your troubles, all will vanish as soon as you start using this, because it is such an universal thing and such a benevolent blessing.
It just makes you wonderful. You become a wonderful personality: happy joyous, straight-forward, open-hearted, fearless. Absolutely enchanting.
May God bless you all.
You want to have any questions?
This lecture has been rather complicated I think, in a way, so it’s better to repeat it or them, sometimes, again. Maybe at Shiv puja would be a good idea.
Any question please?
New Lady: How can you forgive a person like Hitler?
Shri Mataji: Actually, you see, you don’t do anything. When you forgive or not forgive, you really don’t do anything. It’s a myth. It’s just a myth. “I don’t forgive.” Means what do you do? It’s a myth.
New Lady: It’s how you feel towards a person who has committed so many crimes and the detention of Jews.
Shri Mataji: But what about Jewish now? If they had forgiven Hitler, God would have looked after him! God is looking after him. But when the Jews didn’t forgive him, they have become more like Hitler, sometimes. They behave like Hitler sometimes I feel. The way they are treating PLO people is something horrible. You see, so if you do not forgive you become like the person you are hating. If you forgive you don’t become like that. Just that person goes out of your mind completely. I mean, they have imbibed certain qualities now. I can’t imagine Jews behaving like this! They are behaving in a very funny manner. You can see it clearly! I mean, they had no place to go, they had no land to live, they were given a land. And now the way they are troubling PLOs, I was amazed. Because I met some of the students of this PLO people who came to India, who have been given asylum. And when I heard how Jews tortured them – just like Hitler, just like Hitler. I wish they had forgiven. I mean, if they had not forgiven Hitler, what did they do out of it? Nothing! Hitler is punished by God, not by you. What can you punish him? You cannot punish him. Alright?
When we forgive, we don’t imbibe that cruelty within ourselves. That’s the biggest thing that happens. Apart from that we do not suffer when we forgive. I mean, if you go on thinking about it, what people did say, imagine, think of the people when Mr. Columbus reached America, who followed them [and] what they did there! Horrible things. I mean, worse than Hitler. They wiped out each and every person from there. Then when they tried to consume other countries, going to other countries and ruling them. If you go to China you will be shocked, even about English, what they have to say. Even in India, if you go, you will find. How can anybody forgive them if you think what they have done? But that is finished now and gone, forever! You are not to think about it at all. It’s finished.
Today, what is the situation, we have to see. You will be amazed, if I tell you, that myself, I was tortured by English very much. So what? For me you are my children. I don’t think of that at all because that’s finished. They were bhootish people, that’s all – finished. Where are they? Where is Hitler today? Where are those people who died? Finished! Better to forgive so that God punishes them well.
Now, today, is not the time of punishing anyone, it’s the time of evolving, of helping people to rise above that. So there is no more danger of getting any Hitlers on this Earth. We have to create such a beautiful garden! Why to think of the thorns? Forget about all that nonsense, you see! These are special blossom times: let us think of the flowers and not of the past and the thorns that we had finished off. We have to give something very beautiful to our children. Isn’t it? A heritage where people will say, “Oh, I see. There were people who forgave all such things and created a beautiful world for us!”
Isn’t it a nice thought? Better than not forgiving.
Like that we go on thinking about, “He did this and he did that.” There’s no end to it! God looks after! He’ll punish. He’s punished him so badly. Now nobody wants to take Hitler’s name! I mean, if somebody sees Hitler’s photograph somewhere he will go and have a bath in India. He’ll just go to the river Ganges and have a bath, “Oh God! How did I see Hitler’s face anywhere?” What more you want as a punishment for Hitler that they can ’t even face his photograph? And some person who looks like Hitler, they’ll say, “You just shave off your moustache at least! Don’t look like that. It’s very inauspicious!” Yes, I know somebody who looked like Hitler and they said, “You shave off your moustache and comb your hair from the other side, or make it a parting in the centre. We can’t see you like this early in the morning!” Imagine! What an inauspicious face! (laughter) He’s hated by anyone. You go to any place. Even in Germany they hate him. So what’s the use of such a character being so much dominant on our heads? Have nothing to do with it. Because once you start thinking about him you also develop certain habits that he had. A little cruelty comes up when you become angry and when you cannot forgive others, you also think it’s right that you can punish others. Here we are not fighting the sword with a sword but with a shield. We are fighting the sword with a shield. We never fight sword with a sword, we fight it with a shield. That’s a wise attitude towards life, I think. Otherwise you will create more Hitlers. One Hitler is dead and now ten Hitlers have come out – already have come out! They are all to be finished now, once [and] for all.
You can help by creating a new pattern, a new world of beauty.
Any other question please? That’s a nice question, I know it happens to her. But now you are feeling better inside aren’t you? (laughing) Much more! That’s how we have to bring peace on this Earth. How are we going to bring peace if there’s still lurking anger? Not forgiving means anger! That’s all. Hmmm. What else?
Ask some questions at least! Must ask some questions.
Yes, what’s that doctor?
Dr. Brian Wells: Shri Mataji, sometimes in my work I find myself getting very angry with the people I work with is this ever appropriate or should one always try and love and forgive them and be gentle.
Shri Mataji: Yes, better try that! (laughter) As far as possible! But sometimes anger can also help. But I think, just now, for us, we are developing now, it’s better to take to the more gentler ways and things like that and not to get angry – for the time being. But we’ll have to show anger sometimes. Let God show the anger. Let him take the credit. You will be more effective if you are gentle, I tell you. By anger you cannot correct people, you cannot make them more efficient; but by love. Those days are gone where anger and hot-temper used to impress people.
Nowadays these people don’t like such people. Anger or some people are also very silly. They think [that] by being silly they’ll impress others: like clowns or something. It’s not so. Now we are different people in this world and they just know that this is a silly person, that’s all. They expect a leader or anybody who has to give something to others has to be something of a higher and a better personality – it’s expected. Cheapish things or anything that is publicly people may like you to do, it a leader does that they don’t like it, they don’t like it.
A leader is supposed to be something above, above the normal. But the idea of leadership these days is alright: everybody is doing the ‘shake’ so the leader is doing the shake. Then everybody wears a tight jean [so] the leader also wears the tight jean and he can’t sit on his chair! So that’s not the way. That’s not the way you can be leaders. A leader has to make a pattern of his own. And he doesn’t have to solve the problems of the people but give them the problem to be solved. That’s how leadership works out. So for anybody who wants to get anything done, must learn that the pattern should be of such a level that others should not take advantage, should not think that they can bring you to your level. For example, I’ll tell you: in India there’s a habit of eating tobacco, dried tobacco. Now, those people who eat tobacco, say there’s a high court judge – he’ll call his peon and ask him “Have you go the…”, they call it ‘dubbi’ means a small little pouch, so, “Have you got the dubbi?” So, the whole dignity is finished! Whole dignity is finished! That, just an ordinary peon can say, “Do you want your dubbi?” So then it’s done. What about his great position and dress and everything? He makes a big gown and wears [and] on the head they wear a kind of a wig. And all that is useless because you are asking for a dubbi from a peon!
So what impresses people is dignity, balance, poise, humility and truthfulness – straightforward truthfulness – even in day to day work. Of course efficiency comes like that. Peacemaking. You must make peace between two persons, ten persons. Try to make peace instead of supporting one person or taking sides. Best is to make peace. But if somebody is doing absolutely wrong, then you have to take another attitude.
Any other question?
Shri Mataji: What’s she saying?
Yogi: She’s asking you to tell us how we settle down in Sahaja Yoga. For the new people.
Shri Mataji: Settle down in Sahaja Yoga? You are already settled!
Gavin Brown: Some of the new people have come quite new to Sahaja Yoga, they haven’t met you before Mother.
Shri Mataji: You see, I was born so settled down I don’t know! (laughter) First of all, in Sahaja Yoga, one has to realise that you have got vibrations. Now, put it on that. I think that’s the best criteria. “Am I getting my vibrations alright? Are they flowing alright? If not, what’s wrong with me?” Direct your attention to yourself to find out. “Is there anything wrong with me that I cannot get my vibrations alright? Alright! There must be something wrong. Now what is that wrong?” Try to correct it. First of all they must direct their attention to themselves then they will start settling down. But all the time, supposing, I have seen many people who come to Sahaja Yoga: out of them some say, “I saw one Sahaja Yogi who was like this!” They see to others: how they are are, how they are, how they are. You should see to yourself because this is for your benevolence, for your betterment. So the first attitude should be, “What have I gained? What have I to gain? How am I to get better?”
Or else there could be some people who think that, “I must get better. My health should be alright. I didn’t get kshema, benevolence, as was promised by Sahaja Yogis!” No, something wrong with you: still the yoga is not established. First establish your yoga. If you have not established your yoga how can you get what you want? So, first of all it’s such a genuine effort. One has to be absolutely genuinely asking for that yoga. And you cannot force people. You cannot force it. Whatever lecture you may give. You may like my lectures or anything, they might sound very good but it doesn’t matter. It must go into your being. It must work out in your being. You have to become something. You should certify yourself that, “Yes, yes. I am like that.”
We may be very few – doesn’t matter. It’s meant for the few. It cannot be given to every funny type of a person or a person who is just forced into Sahaja Yoga. You cannot force it. It’s not like winning over election, you see, that you make somebody a communist and overnight he becomes a capitalist. It’s not like that. It’s the inner growth. And only those who are deserving, who have that value of their own existence – only such people can come.
So you cannot force on them at all! They have to see to it. And what they have to see in other people [is] that what are they doing that they are so much settled. And there should be an understanding that we have just now entered into the university, say for example: a new class we are in. Now how are we to go higher and higher? Their attitude has to be that way. You cannot force things into them. It’s like I always say [that] I have cooked for you, the food is ready. If you are hungry you will eat it. I cannot force the food into your mouth! You have to taste it yourself and enjoy. But there’s a gap, gap between when they get Realisation and when they feel joy because specially in the West they have no idea as to what Realisation is, they have never known the Kundalini. It’s a new language to them, everything is new, so they have to be given little assistance and help to tell them that, “No, there is joy! You have to go beyond. You have to see [that] these things exist. Whatever the saints have said is true. Whatever the scriptures have described is true and you can find out. But you have to have patience with yourself.” But if they want to criticise and they want to say, “Oh, how can that be? And how can that be?” Such people will take too much time!
But there must be some genuine seekers. And there are some slow movers also so accordingly they move and you cannot force them. At the most you can support them for a while but then again they drop down. You have seen that. It’s happening every time in the West specially, not in India. Not in India. Not that, also, in [Indian] villages – it doesn’t happen. Once you get six thousand you get six thousand – finished! I have known least of them. I don’t know who they are [but] they are there. You meet them somewhere and they’ll just come and fall at my feet and say, “Mother I am a Sahaja Yogi.” I said, “I know that. I know you are. You are my children I know just from your presence I know you are my children.”
So they have to become that. You cannot force. That’s one thing we do not realise. You see, now, in the churches they are compromising, “Let’s have a disco dance! And in the disco dance when the people will come then we will have some Christians there.” Imagine! People who are going to disco dance how can they be Christians? And this kind of a compromise is there because it’s a money-oriented stuff. It is not God-oriented, it’s money-oriented. So, “We must have more people so that we have more money so we can have more clergies, we can give more pay.” It’s all on that level [that] it works. But not in Sahaja Yoga. In Sahaja Yoga everyone is a temple of God, everyone is a church of God and everyone has to come up to that. And those who do not have that respect of oneself, we cannot force. How can you say, “You must have respect for yourself!” Can you say like that? I mean, it’s something not possible. That’s what you all people should know. Also we should reconcile to that.
I have done my level best. Except for standing on my head I have done everything that is possible but what I find is that it’s very difficult. Too much of ego! Too much. Too much of ego in the West – absolutely – and they are so ignorant. They have never heard the name of Kundalini, can you imagine? What tremendous ignorance there is. But those who are wise, those who have pure intelligence, came to Sahaja Yoga, they learnt everything, they know so much. And some of the Sahaja Yogis in the West know more than Indians know, I know. We can say that there are many good Indian Sahaja Yogis but there are some excellent ones in the West. Par excellence, I should say, some of them are.
So that’s it. So why worry? We have the quality, if not the quantity. But this quality only is going to attract these ego people. That’s only going to attract them, nothing else. This quality of your personality, of your temperament, of your behaviour, everything is going to attract them. But supposing tomorrow you say, “Alright, I’ll make a holey jeans,” and walk about with the holes in the jeans and then people will say, “What a nice Sahaja Yogi he is!” It’s not the way! You must have your own personality, you must have your own dignity. You shouldn’t behave like them. But you should not condemn them either. Know that they are ignorant. They have no idea. They don’t have the knowledge of the roots at all. You have the knowledge, so you have to be kind like a teacher is kind to his students.
I never expected that in the West I’ll be able to talk to so many people myself. I mean, in the beginning when I came here they used to say, “This Victorian old woman!” And all kinds of things they branded me with. So it’s alright. I didn’t mind that time. Now they are alright. That’s how they are, what can you do? To begin with they brand you, they do this and do that.
Hmm. Any other question?
But the society you can form and get to people who believe in a proper life, a healthy life and healthy society. You can start a society like that, saying that, “We want to belong to the healthy society.” You can take your children to that kind of a thing. You can get other children: where there are no drugs and things like that. You can start on that level. Maybe from there you might get some people.
Gavin Brown: Shri Mataji, whenever you speak the questions go away!
Shri Mataji: You jump into thoughtless awareness, I know that.
Gavin Brown: There’s one thing we’d like to ask you is to accept your birthday present a little early.
Shri Mataji: A birthday present? I mean if you have so many birthdays I’ll become older very fast! (laughter)
Oh, Gavin. So sweet!
Gavin Brown: Something very little.
Shri Mataji: You always say so! Thank you very much. Thank you. (applause) You better open and show them, I don’t know what it is like. They’ll be very happy to see that.
Those who have got Left Vishuddhi, I would suggest you sit down with your left hand towards me and one hand on the Mother Earth – will solve the problem immediately. Just have it. Left Vishuddhi.
Call your mother here. Let her have a candle.
Left hand towards me and right hand [on Mother Earth]. What’s it Gavin? It’s quite a big thing. It’s so many pieces. I hope not you have spent so much money.
You can say the mantra in your heart, “Mother I am not guilty.”
First [for] your mother, just give her this candle.
What’s that? Oh Gavin! Beautiful isn’t it? And a dolphin there! Just imagine! Thank you very much it’s beautiful. It’s beautiful. It’s very, very beautiful. Beautiful. Thank you very much. Haa!
Gavin Brown: It’s French.
Shri Mataji: It’s French? Why not get something English from English? Alright. It’s alright. For me it’s alright.
Aha. Working out!
Cancer patients should be treated with this, those who have got cancer or anything left-sided, psychosomatic. The other day, doctor – you will be amazed – there was a lady who came, she had cancer of the glands and she had tied up her head with a scarf, in Madras. So while talking I told her, “You take a candle and sit there with your left hand towards me and right hand outside.” And after ten minutes I said, “Alright, remove your scarf.” The whole thing was cured. It’s tremendous.
And they have now started that PhD thing in India.
Better? Much better.
It’s working out. Good.
(Shri Mataji talks to some children)
Akshay, you didn’t give me a kiss! You must give me a kiss too! Alright give it to Olympia then!
So I think I’ll take your leave Gavin. Is it alright?
So tomorrow I don’t think you can come early in the morning, it’s too early – to the airport. And I’ll be leaving about seven o’clock from the house, at seven thirty-five I’ll be there.
Are you alright now? Good?
So where’s the baby? Where’s Wendy’s baby?
Rodrigo Sanchez-Castro: It’s in Southampton Mother.
Shri Mataji: Oh I see. So you want to have the name? When was she born?
Rodrigo Sanchez-Castro: He was born on the thirteen of February.
Shri Mataji: So call her ‘Himakanya’. Himakanya is the name of the Goddess born when…’Hima’ means ‘the snow’. That’s the time she was born, when it was snowing.
Rodrigo Sanchez-Castro: It’s a boy Mother.
Shri Mataji: No. Then ‘Himanshu’. ‘Himanshu’ is alright. It’s a boy. I thought it’s a girl they said.
Rodrigo Sanchez-Castro: No, no. It’s a boy Mother.
Shri Mataji: Alright, so ‘Himanshu’. It’s good. ‘Himanshu’ is a good name. ‘Himanshu’ means ‘the one who is born out of the..’ ‘anshu’ means ‘the essence’ ‘Hima’ means ‘the ice’. He’s the essence of the ice. ‘Himanshu’. Is the name of Shiva.
(Mother meets another young child)
This is a new one? New Sahaja Yogini? Aaah. That’s Leela. You want some chana?
Leela’s sister: She likes that.
Shri Mataji: Do you like that? Alright, I’ll give her some chana. Now only two can fit in here and let’s fit the others there. Alright. So you carry some more. She has big hands now! Come along, have some more. You have big, big hands now. You’ve become a big girl I must say!