Talk about Shri Krishna, before the dinner

Hostellerie am Schwarzsee, Plaffeien (Switzerland)


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Evening Talk, Shri Krishna Puja Seminar. Schwarzsee (Switzerland), 23 August 1986.

So we have decided, we have decided to have the puja after our dinner because Shri Krishna was born in the night, about twelve o’clock while I was born twelve o’clock in the daytime, same with Shri Rama. And also Christ was born twelve o’clock in the night.

I’ve told you that today I’m going to tell you about Gita. That is the second part of Krishna’s life. So different and varied that some people, intellectuals as usual, say that the Krishna who played as a child in Gokul was different from the Krishna who was the king of Dwarika.

So when He became the king of Dwarika there was a war between Pandavas and Kauravas, one representing the good people, another representing the bad people. So they came to ask Him if He would join on their side. So He said, “I’ve got My army and I Myself, so whichever you choose you can have.” So Kauravas said, “We’ll have your army,” but Pandavas said, “We’ll have you.” And that is how the war started and in the war His greatest disciple was one of the Pandavas called Arjuna. And Arjuna asked Him to fight for him. He said, “I will not take any weapon in my hand but I will be your charioteer and drive your chariot.”

And when He was driving the chariot it so happened that Krishna saw Arjuna’s depression. And Arjuna said, “What is this war? Why should I fight? I’m fighting my own gurus, those who have taught me all the vidyas of the battleship, battle, and also the vidya of archery and I’m fighting my own cousins.” So Shri Krishna said that, “They’re already killed, they don’t exist, they’re already dead people, because they’re not realized souls, I’ve already killed them. So you have to just play this drama of killing them.”

So the foremost contradiction that people present about Gita is that those who read Gita should be vegetarian. Krishna told, Shri Krishna told Arjuna that, “You kill them.” Human beings, his own relations, his own cousins who were bad people. What about chickens and goats? But all those who start reading Gita in India give up all meat eating and take to vegetarianism, or they fast. So how contradictory these things are. So He never preached vegetarianism, at least in Gita. And He asked Arjuna to kill.

In the modern times there is a war going on between the evil force and the good. You don’t have to kill them; even if you give them bandhan they’re already dead, they’re not realized souls, they’ll be all neutralized. But you have to kill them in the sense you’ve to kill your connections with them.

Like I see many people who come to Sahaja Yoga, “But my mother is not yet a Sahaja Yogini, so she troubles me, how can I do Sahaja Yoga?” For anything else they’ll fight the mother but not for this. “Kill your attachments and your relations.” That’s what He said, if in case they are troubling you in your ascent. This is the message of Gita to begin with. But on the contrary I’ve seen there are people in Sahaja Yoga who once they get married want to get out of Sahaja Yoga, take out their husbands or take out their wives or want to live away and want to be non-collective.

So you have to kill. There are [Sanskrit word], there are six enemies human beings have but in the modern times they have multiplied, I think. The first one is the lust. Kill your lust. The lust that is today finishing the West more than the greed. So first is to kill your lust.

Then kill your anger. There are certain people who have a built-in response that as soon as they see somebody they get into anger. If a white man sees a black man he gets into an anger, a black man sees a white man he gets into anger, surprising. I mean, God has made all kinds of things; the life would be boring if you all have the same parched skins, all of you looking the same. So he has made different types of beautiful people. But this anger can come from any source. This is what it is when you kill anger, actually you kill all your connections with the past, the responses, the conditionings you have had.

Then the vanity that people have; I find it much more when I go to places where people call themselves bureaucrats or they’re “in charge,” like matrons telling people what to do, “Do this, do that, do that.” This is the Krishna’s finger, using Krishna’s finger on others. The vanity, the vanity that you are perfect, you are perfect, “Nothing wrong with me.” You are the best people, English think they’re the best, Germans think they’re the best, Italians think they’re the best, or, say, the best of all are the Switzerland, Swiss people. This vanity, this forge, has to be cut up. What have you achieved by being a certain nation, let us see. What have you contributed, belonging to a certain country. Those who only belong to the Kingdom of God have achieved something. The rest of them are useless people, just finding some way to fight each other, to denounce others and vanity is just like a balloon. If somebody just puts a pin into it the whole balloon will collapse.

Now the worst of all is jealousy, and that is among Indians, Indians are very big jealous pots. Specially the Indians who are again in the government and the politics but otherwise also there are jealousies. They’ll always complain about the other people and will be jealous. And also in the West people are quite jealous, I must say. They’re jealous of things which is most surprising. One day I was going in the car and one gentleman was very furious for nothing. So the another one tells Me, “They’re jealous because you’re sitting in a Mercedes car.” I said, “But it’s not Mine, that’s My husband’s, you see.” What is there to be jealous because I’m sitting in a Mercedes car. I mean, this is being a very stupid, nonsensical thing but still I can’t believe you can be jealous of somebody because he has a Mercedes car, what does it matter? To Me, it’s a foreign idea absolutely, I can’t understand. But there are stupid and stupid things like that. I can only understand one jealousy, that is between husband and wife, little bit.

Then the fifth thing that He asked us to kill is the attachment, very important, “This is my child, this is my…” This is Indian also, more Indian, “This is my cousin, this is my brother, this is my fiancé, this is my wife.” Also in the West, the other way round is that they do not care for their children. They do not care for their mothers, they do not care for their fathers. They do not care for anyone whatsoever, but for themselves.

That comes from the last one, is called as the greed. Now when you have greed, you don’t care for anybody, you just want to have everything, from another person. You want to grab another person of everything. Whatever another person has, you want to have it. But when you don’t want to have it everybody wants to give you it, that’s My case. I’m very afraid to say even that, “This is nice,” because immediately tomorrow I’ll find it in My house.

So this greed is the one which has done such a harm to the whole world. People have gone into great dominations on other countries, for what? For these diamonds and nonsensical things like that? They have ruined their own lives, the progenies of the progenies they’ve ruined. All their cunning they have used to ruin so many nations just to put them one against another, creating problems, doing all kinds of intrique. Just for what? For greed which is absolutely like cancer, doesn’t allow anybody else to exist. And then you start eating yourself out. It’s a disease, I think, greed. And with that goes the miserliness; people become miserly. Then where does this greed end up. After all the money that accumulates or things that accumulate in your house, what happens to them? You want to use them. What’s the matter with this one? Try to be, not to be, I’ve told, otherwise I’ll ask you to go out, all right? Concentrate.

So what happens to the people who are greedy? They become miserly, they can’t enjoy life, they cannot spend money because the greatest joy is in giving things to others, no doubt about it. And they cannot give any joy to anyone, they cannot create anything for the future progeny to see. So what happens to them? Their children when they come in they become wastrel, waste. They waste all of them, they lead a wasteful life, they get into wrong things, and ruin themselves. So their children who are born become miserly. So the vicious circle starts moving. He has said, “Kill all of them, these are your six enemies.”

Now the contradiction, again people use, about Shri Krishna, in so many other ways that it is surprising that not only Christ, not only Mohamad Sahib, not only Lao Tze, not only Shri Rama but even Krishna was misused by His followers. He’s the one who is datast, the one…, datast means who stands on the banks of the attention and sees everything, who watches everything, he’s the one who is the witness. He described, “Sakshi rupena samsthita,” he becomes a sakshi, a witness. That’s what He has said, it’s a play, it’s a play. But in the name of Krishna you find all kinds of absurd things people do. They make dramas, they become Krishnas, they become , they make people…, befool them, make money out of it or they sell books on the street. Like if you go to Southall you’ll find so many Westerners wearing funny dresses going round asking for alms from Indians and Indians say, “Oh look at that, these beggars, see they have come to get some, let us give them some money.”

So the contradiction of Krishna’s life is such a miserable thing, is such a absurd thing that it hurts Me to see how such a great incarnation who was misused in this world by human beings. If there was anything lacking in that incarnation, was this, that He did not give realization to people but He did talk about it. He said about it, talked of meditation; He did all that was needed at this stage. But what is the result? All His incarnation was misused.

Throughout Gita if you read, you’d be amazed how people have changed Gita and its writings also. Same in the Bible and same in the Koran. Things that they could never have said it, how could they have said it, you’d be surprised, impossible, because they cannot contradict themselves. For example, Gita is written by Vyasa who was an illegitimate child of a fisherwoman. But in the Gita it is written that your caste is determined by your birth; how can it be? The one who is the son of…, an illegitimate son of a fisherwoman, how can he tell like that? See the contradiction. Same in the Bible, same in the Koran, same in the Koran, in all these books, all these people have tried to play a very nasty role by changing it. But you can find it out. Luckily, whatever they may try, the truth comes out in this manner and you can prove it that whatever you’re saying is wrong, cannot be. The one Vyasa who wrote was the son of a fisherwoman and how can he say that Brahmins are the highest, when he’s not born as a Brahmin. And to say that your caste Brahminism comes from your birth… From your rebirth! Only they removed little bit – rebirth.

This is how they interpreted Gita in various ways in such contradictory manners. His whole writings or sayings could not be changed, of course, they could not change it but wherever they wanted to put their own style, they did it. Because ultimately, it went into the hands of the Brahmins who were not really Brahmins, they were the people who were sudras because they were not even realized souls and behaving in such a dirty manner; they should not be called as Brahmins. But it went into the hands of so-called Brahmins and they misinterpreted it.

Same thing with Bible. It went into the hands of horrid people. Mr. John said something which was sensible, all right, but what about the other fellow, Paul? He comes in and spoils everything. Then comes Augustine, he spoils everything, why? Because they’re devils. There is a evil force; this theory that there is no evil force is a wrong theory, doesn’t exist. There is a evil force and don’t play into the hands of evil force even this much. And that was clearly taught by Shri Krishna. But even then the contradictions can come in.

Like if you are a Krishna bhakta then if you just start running on the street, “Krishna! Krishna! Krishna! Krishna!” like that, then you are celebrated, or like a madcap go on, “Krishna! Krishna! Krishna!” like that. Or else being worse than that is some people said we’re Krishnas.

Like this horrible Rajneesh did. He said He used to make the women naked, so, “I’m making the women naked.” I started wondering, “When did Krishna make women naked?” When He was a little boy less than five years of age, He used to climb up on the trees and the ladies used to take their bath in the river Yamuna. So He used to hide their clothes just to raise their Kundalini and see how it works. At the age of five years what does a child understand? This horrible fellow, was he five years of age when he was doing this nonsense? Using Shri Krishna’s name like this?

And when he used to break the pitchers of these gopis, what was He doing? He was doing Kundalini awakening, because the gopis were taking out the water from the river Yamuna which was vibrated by Radha and He used to break them on the back so that the water would fall on their Kundalini and they would get their realization, in this lifetime. That’s what’s His purification. But first thing they will do is to separate Shri Krishna as a child and Shri Krishna as the one who talks to Arjuna, very nice. So there is no relevance and use Him the way you want. It’s a very common thing that people start talking about Shri Krishna as if He’s in their pocket, or they are the writers of Gita.

Like we have in the churches those bishops and things who drink a lot and then they take out their Bible and start reading upside down. All these class whether this belongs to this or to that, all of them are hypocrites of the worst type, just money spinning people. Even Indian temples which are not far-fetched are ruined. All the ganja and all that are sold in Indian temples. All these popes and all these people are doing something that is never expected. Imagine they make a kind of a wine called Benedictine in your Vatican. Can you imagine a nonsensical thing like that? Tomorrow they’ll open a beer bar, I won’t be surprised.

So we come to a position to understand that all those people who talk of these great incarnations and profess a religion are all hypocrites. There’s no religion. Simple people who believe these hypocrites because they’re so simple, so innocent. These cunning, greedy devils who started these religions, exploited these simple people, used them for making temples, churches, mosques, they have no religion within them, how can they talk of God? Their life is so impure.

So we have to start our own innate religion, our own spontaneous, natural religion which is the human religion, which is the Vishwa Nirmala Dharma. The one that will give you the inner ascent, not just talk, no hypocrisy; and all that which goes with religion to malign the names of these great incarnations has to be brought to the light for the people to see this nonsense that has been eating into our societies, eating into our families, eating into our children, has to go away. , whenever the religion – normally doesn’t mean this nonsensical religion – falls down, that time, , to save the sadhus, the seekers. , and to destroy all these devils, “I take My birth again and again.” , “Every yuga I take My birth.” And this is what is an incarnation.

You must be very fortunate people that now you can see the cunning of all these devils and can exist into that purity, into that benevolence, the hita, which was promised by Shri Krishna. He never told lies, what He told was the truth. He was truth. But those who tried to use Him had to take course to something which was falsehood, hypocrisy and cunning but that in no way could stop the truthful people from getting to reality.

May God bless you all.

H.H. Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi