Conversation about Chastity

Armonk Ashram, North Castle (United States)

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Excerpt from conversation at New York Ashram. New York (USA), 9 September 1986.

One thing is Mooladhara is good. Indians have one advantage; they have a good Mooladhara, you see. Eyes are good. That’s what Salim [?] was telling me that they do everything that [sounds like: Sagaricles] are doing are doing but not chastity. That part they don’t compromise. Naturally, the attention is good.

Once you know the Mooladhara is so important for everything, even for material gain, people will start to look after the Mooladhara. But logically you can see, it’s very logical that if your Mooladhara is all right, you have a nice family life, you have good children, they become obedient, your attention is concentrated, whatever you work you grow, you do it with concentration. There’s no diversion. There’s no – sort of, nobody can befool you because your Mooladhara is all right.

Any girl who is good-looking can come and entice you, murder you, take away all your money. Or the other way round. Could be anything. I mean, you are solidly placed if you have a nice Mooladhara. You may go anywhere. Nobody can cheat you.

In India it’s too much a strong feeling from tradition, I think. In our country we had three thousand women burnt themselves on a fire – Jauhar − because the Muslims had won the battle and they would enter into the fort. So they burnt themselves up. Very common in Bombay also. So many cases where women jumped sixteen stories to save their chastity. For innately it’s built in us this Mooladhara is very important. That’s our property. That’s our power. Mooladhara you save. They will cheat the Government, all right, very well. They are very good at cheating Government, tell lies, do what you like, but as far as Mooladhara is concerned there they are; as long as Mooladhara is all right.

Even men now, men have a great sense of chastity in India. Of course, westernized men may not be. They are very innocent. They cannot see many things that you people can do like I saw Kharde. It doesn’t enter his head. He doesn’t understand. Same with Me. Why should I laugh at him? I am just saying, but at least I am better than him. Now I understand little bit but Mr Kharde is absolutely an innocent person, you know, very innocent man. He said, “But why do they do it? But why?” They can’t explain that why people do it.

The questions are like this one mister … he was quite young. He came to me. He said, “Why do young people in the west leave their parents? Supposing I leave my parents, will their bhoots leave me”? He asked, “Will the bhoots of my parents leave me”? I said, “No, they will be with you. After all, you are his son. Then what’s the use of going away?” “It’s true,” he said. “See, my mother cooks well first of all. I don’t know how to cook.” One advantage he gave. Second advantage he said, “You see, my father scolds me if I do anything wrong. See, if I want to smoke, I cannot because I am frightened of my father. I won’t smoke but if I am alone I may start smoking. You see, it’s a very bad thing to be alone. It’s very dangerous.” The brain works the other way round.

There is still a lot of innocence in our country [said in Hindi].) We are cunning as far as telling lies are concerned that also we don’t do very well, I must say. We get caught [said in Hindi].

Over here they are more honest towards the Government. They’ll pay their taxes [said in Hindi]. It’s regarded very sinful not to give tax. In India they know how to evade. They are very honest towards Government. To us, you see, it’s better to be honest to God and nothing to the Government.

Sahaja Yogi: They are honest about money matters as well.

Shri Mataji: Maybe now, but initially it was not like that. Initially if money had been taken from someone [said in Hindi], if you have borrowed the money from somebody and you have not returned the money, then it was said that you will have to become a bull in next life and you will have to plough his fields, if you don’t return the money. So people were quite frightened about the next birth problem, you see, but it’s nowhere written in the shastras that if you cheat the Government there will be any punishment and they say that, you see, this Government is today. Tomorrow somebody else will come. So what does it matter? By that time we are born again. So what? It’s all right to cheat the Government.

Sahaja Yogi: Bribery?

Shri Mataji: Bribery happens a lot [said in Hindi] but that is at a different level. But bribery has come to us from the English. You’ll be surprised. We never knew what was bribery. Going through the history you’ll find Warren Hastings and all those people, they taught us. That time they started it, getting bribes and things. And because, you see, they had such an image they themselves created, they never felt that they were the servants of the public, never. So everybody used to give them bribes. They were like Raja, Maharaja (Nazrane` chalete` the` pehele)….. Robert Clive did. Hastings did …I used to go into the annals of these people because my husband has been a collector [Hindi]. So we used to have their ancient things. So they used to take bribes. They taught us how to take bribes.

But this Chinese traveler who came to India says that these people never locked their houses and all that. I mean, I remember that till I got married, my father’s house was a huge house, was never locked, never! Neither the main door nor the back door, nothing, and only once we had a theft in our lifetime. The fellow came and took away our gramophone. So my father was very happy, you see. “He must be some connoisseur, you see. So it’s good for him. He should have asked from me. I could have given him some records,” he said. Thefts were lesser initially [Hindi]. But theft is much less. We don’t steal things from people. You see, this is the thing is, you see. To each other we’ll not try to cheat but to the Government we’ll cheat because the Government is changing. So it doesn’t matter. Doesn’t matter cheating the – this is the psychology, I think. But a person they will never steal because if you steal from somebody’s house that’s a sin but cheating the Government is not a sin because the Government changes tomorrow. And the Government itself is cheating. So what is a sin to cheat a cheat?

But in Sahaja Yoga I was surprised, you see. Nobody makes a mess of money in Sahaja Yoga. At least in Maharashtra, you see, very honest people. Now you people also go there. Nobody will steal your things, nobody, because, you see, they don’t want to cheat God. That’s the thing. This double attitude is something really funny. You are saints. So they will not cheat you. They will not take away your things. I mean, many a times it has happened with Sahaja Yogis, they have left everything there and just walked off. They just got into their buses and went off. And people had to gather all their things and bring them but nothing was lost.

So the feeling that saints should not be cheated is something great, really. First time when these people came, Australians, they had tied their money to a thing and this and that, just like as if someone wears the sacred thread [Hindi]. So I said, “What’s this?” They said, “This is money and…” I said, “Why do all this? It’s all right.” And Kay, she was another, she was an air hostess at that time, she came and she came by taxi and that time they were staying in the flats for one day or so. They were in a flat and she just walked out, you see, without taking the luggage or anything and she went up and forgot that she has to take her luggage. The fellow waited there for half an hour. Then the taxi fellow went away. So then she remembered, “Oh, God! I had all my luggage in the taxi. I have forgotten there.” Everything, even her purse she had forgotten and so she informed the police. So the police said, “Yes, the taxi fellow is sitting here for long now. Will you please come and collect your luggage?”

H.H. Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi