Public Program, Hotel “De Gouden Wieken”, The Hague, Holland, 16th September 1986
In these days of turmoil and chaos, we feel we are waiting for some sort of a big shock and maybe that our last days will appear in our life time. When we think only from the human limitations, this is quite justified. But we are not created by ourselves, nor have we become human beings by ourselves. From amoeba to this stage we have come, without doing any research or enterprise. So there must be some purpose and it has been mentioned in many scriptures, that we have to attain our eternal life. But when human beings start reflecting on concepts like this, concepts become bondages for them. These bondages work as systems and when we try to get out of those systems, we again get bound by bondages.
Beyond the human concept, we have to humbly accept, there is reality. The main problem lies with our mind that we have got concepts which are limited. If you have to go to the realm of the unlimited, something has to trigger it in our awareness; something that is a living force, which is spontaneous. It cannot be that we human beings can manoeuvre it. We cannot put in efforts for it, nor can we pay for it and do all such things that human beings normally do. But in our understanding, in our human awareness, we think we can pay for everything. Let us think, how much did we pay to become human beings from the monkey stage? Then we can calculate how much we have to pay to become higher human beings.
To achieve reality in our awareness, the divine has already arranged and organised a force, a power. This power is called, in the Sanskrit language, Kundalini. Kundalini means coils. These are three and a half as the seers have seen them. But first to believe that there is some knowledge beyond science is very difficult. The knowledge of science and the knowledge of all these modern enterprises are the knowledge of the tree. We are talking about the knowledge of the roots. They could be somewhere else and wherever they are, they are for global use. If they are described in the Sanskrit language, one should not just abhor it because it is not in the Dutch language, because everybody has the right to know the knowledge.
About Kundalini, many western people have written books. They are horrifyingly false. As the western mind always seeks the pleasures of the body more, the people who went to India to find out about Kundalini, they jumped onto tantric knowledge. And I have to tell you very truthfully that tantrism is against God, against purity, against reality. And when the people went down to that level of knowledge, they described Kundalini as something like an angry serpent. Also I would not blame them because they are in the market. They are selling this knowledge, and as it satisfies the wants of the western mind, it just gets assimilated into their heads. But I have to tell you honestly, that it is not the way Kundalini has been represented so far. Kundalini is the energy of purest desire within us, and the purest desire cannot be the desire of sex.
Logically you can understand that the purest desire would be for eternal life. The purest desire would be for self knowledge and self truth. Also about the eternal life I find so much ignorance in the West. When we think that the purest desire is eternal life, and eternal life means that after death you move like a haunted spirit, it is absurd. Absolutely it is a wrong idea because the other day when I was watching a film about the eternal life, I was surprised that the person wanted to die, to come back to life in a way that he could visit like a spirit! It is horrifying, the idea that one wants to become a spirit. But the language has some problem. In the English language, there is no other word for this Spirit that is the Atma; that is the reflection of the divine within us, or the Self. So the Spirit is also a dead person haunting; the Spirit is also the Atma, and Spirit is also alcohol. How can we have one name for such contrasting things?
But let us see what the East has to say about it. If you say Christ came from England; then I must say it’s not true, he also came from the East. So let us see what it was that was meant by eternal life. Eternal life means a life without any bondages. How do we have bondages? Bondages they come to us. They come to us from our conditionings, which create a superego in our heads. Or they come from our efforts and our mental attitude which create ego in our heads. These two bondages come up in the head and go over each other and cover our fontanel bone area, and we get a closed personality of “I-ness”. This “I-ness” makes us feel that our mind is the last word. When it is in balance, when we lead a moderate life, then they just meet each other in our brain, over our brain in the fontanel bone area.
Now they said we should not have any conditionings. All right, so they gave up all conditioning and the result of this you know what is happening in all these so called free countries. They have created forces which are self destructive. They do not destroy other people but they are destroying themselves within. And a kind of an arrogance they build in by saying, “Oh, we are martyrs.” As I saw in San Francisco; I was surprised that the people who were suffering from AIDS were moving in the streets as if they were great martyrs who have conquered the whole world or something like that.
So when you give up your conditionings, where do you land, into which part? Either you land in the area where you start destroying yourself, or else you land in the area which does not give you any kind of control. You become ego orientated. Then you say, what’s wrong? Even now in Germany, I met people who said, “What’s wrong with Hitler? He was all right. Nothing wrong with him; he was looking after the interest of the Aryans.” And that he was looking after the interest of Indians; because, according to them, we are supposed to be Aryans. And to such a limit they said “We are the devotees of Mother Kali, and we are killing the white-skinned people who went around the whole world to conquer.” (Translator doesn’t hear). You see they told me that they are looking after the interest of the Aryans and those who wanted to destroy other countries, like Columbus, and all sorts of people, all Europeans who tried to destroy the Aryans abroad, and other people. I was shocked at their understanding. I said “Now if you are trying to look after our interests let it be with us. We don’t want violence. And when are you going to end this vicious circle?”
So on one side we have the bondage of the ego and on the other side of the superego. Now how to get rid of it is a problem; we cannot get rid of our habits, it’s very difficult. We cannot get rid of our ego; it’s even more difficult, because we cannot see it. Our habits are troublesome, but not ego. Ego troubles others. The whole chaos is because of this. All the problems of the world are because of these human limitations by ego and superego. That is why a special category of people who are seekers are on this earth. But they are entrapped; they are misled because it’s a market. As soon as there is a demand, a superficial market is created, since long. This could be in the name of religion, could be in the name of a cult, or these false gurus, anything, it could be in the name of anyone. But what did you get out of it?
So to go back to the knowledge of the roots, we must know there is a force called Kundalini within us which can be awakened, which is the mother of every individual; an individual mother. If this has to happen, it’s a living force. Anything living, you cannot expedite it, you cannot force it. Like you want to sew a seed, you have to put it in the Mother Earth who has the capacity to awaken it. You have the seeds of seeking within you from ancient times and these seeds are to be sprouted. That’s why one must understand that it is a living process which has to take place and it has to be spontaneous, ‘sahaj’. So the Kundalini is awakened spontaneously.
Now one may say “Why should I be there? We can do it ourselves.” One can say “I can do it myself.” I am sorry to say it’s a thankless job, but I am supposed to do it. But once you get it, you can also do it. Like one candle which is enlightened can enlighten another candle. It’s as simple as that. I’m not the first one who has done it. In ancient times there were so many people who did it. But maybe in modern times I have to do this job. Then there is nothing to feel so bad about it. In no way I oblige you. It’s my job; a job which is not paid for, because you cannot pay for it. But then you also get the job yourself.
When the Kundalini rises and passes through your six chakras, piercing through your top chakra, you feel extremely peaceful, because there is no more quarrel between yourselves, complete integration. You go beyond thoughts. A thought may rise and fall off, and if you are in the water, you are afraid of the waves, of the thoughts, but if you are out of it, you can see them. We think of the future and of the past, but we cannot be in the present. It is the reality. How to stop in the present moment? It’s the Kundalini which rises; its power rises, passes through your different centres and passes through the waves of thoughts and rises above your mind, takes your attention above your head; and then you start feeling the cool breeze of the Holy Ghost.
You don’t have to discard the Bible at all. Nor do you have to discard Buddha, nor the Koran. They speak of the same thing. But when blind people start speaking about colours, what will they describe? So the second point of the reality is such that if it has to be achieved through a living process, then it is not coming from somewhere, some sort of a new thought, but it is evolving out of all these thoughts that were there before from the big, great incarnations. So it has to evolve, like a seed becomes a flower; not suddenly, that you put a seed and you get a flower in your hand, no. But a seed becomes the tree, then the leaves, then the flowers and out of the flower comes the fruit. And the fruit must relate to all the stages of its evolution. In the same manner, if our evolution has to take place it must relate to all the stages of our evolution which have come through these great incarnations of the divine.
But it cannot be some sort of a new idea dropping from somewhere. That must be plastic. But somehow we like something new, absurd maybe, doesn’t matter. If it’s new then it’s all right. Like I had a discussion with an ambassador, and he said, “Why do you like Jung and not Freud?”(Translator doesn’t understand). I said:” Why do you like Freud?” He said: “Because he gave us something new and Jung talked of something that was related to something that was old.” (Translator hesitates) Jung, Jung. I don’t know what you say in your language. Jung, you say? Alright. Some say Jung, some say Djung. That’s good (Shri Mataji laughing). All right, now. I asked this ambassador – of course they are very big people, you know, with a stiff neck and all that – but I said, “Sir, if everything new is to be tested, why should we eat chicken? Why not eat the table; we have never eaten it before?” He was surprised at my comment, but I said that whatever is related to the old, has evolved out of it, is the proof that it has come out of a living source.
And so Sahaja Yoga gives you the full idea as to the great teachings of all the saints, the prophets and the incarnations. It is the flower of all their work. They are very much respected because they represent the same thing. Like we can say, the flowers represent here the beauty. Or we can say they are the flowers on the same tree of life. Those who have plucked them saying this is my religion, this is my guru and this is my thing, have deadened them. Even Christ has said, “You will be calling me Christ, Christ; I won’t recognize you.”
In every religion it is said that you have to be reborn. It’s the actualisation. It’s the experience of the rebirth that is being emphasized by every great religion. Right from Zen to the most modern Sikhism, from Buddha onwards, everyone has said you are to be reborn. Some have not talked about God because that was not the time to talk about it. Some have talked about it. But that selfhood is to be achieved – is mentioned by all of them. Of course, I would say that Kundalini was not so clearly described before. Even in India I would say that it is quite a mysterious stuff. Like in the Bible it is written, I will appear before you like tongues of flames. In the Koran it is called ‘Assas’, and it’s very clearly described, the resurrection time before doomsday, that at the time of resurrection your hands will speak. I mean, you can see in the Gita and all other Indian scriptures, the only thing that is to be achieved, from the Vedas onwards, everywhere, everything, is for achieving self-realisation. Mahavira talked about it, Nanaka talked about it, Buddha talked about it, Zen talked about it, Lao-Tse talked about it. All this has happened. They were not insane people by any chance. They never harmed anyone by their theories as Freud has done. And we should not doubt them because we have limited intelligence.
But now the time for the actualisation of that experience has come. Of course, it may not happen to every one of you at the first instant. You are here because you are seekers of ages. You are here because you have felt that you have to find out something beyond. Maybe you have done all these things that are needed, of penance and all these things, in your last lives and it is over with. And so many have done it for you. Like in this room if you have to put the lights on, I would say just put on the switch and you’ll get all the lights. But that does not mean that people have not worked for it, that there is not a history behind it and a big organisation. But to your advantage, a modern person, you have to just switch it on; you don’t have to fight for it. That is exactly what has happened to you even in the divine. As the tree of life has grown outside, it has also grown inside, otherwise how will it reach its source. Otherwise how will it support that tree? So maybe most of you are on the brink of it and you do not know. (Translator hesitates) So many of you may be on the brink of it and you do not know. I’m sorry. You see the English language has funny, what should we say, expressions, which may not be in the Dutch language but you can use your Dutch language expression it’s all right. (Translator: “But it is the echo Mother which makes it difficult for me to hear”). I see. Alright. But you can use… of course; I mean language is for communication, so it’s all right.
Now, so we have reached the point where we realise logically that it has to be spontaneous, it has to be effortless, it has to be benevolent, it has to be joy giving; minimum of minimum. And the benevolence must come as good health, also satisfaction and enjoyment of life. The most important point is that we must know what it is. It’s not something mysterious that we are doing here. You have to know that your Kundalini is rising; you have to feel it on your central nervous system, the cool breeze of the Holy Ghost. All your evolution must show on your central nervous system. So, as described in the Koran, your fingers get enlightened, all the sympathetic endings get enlightened, your chakras get enlightened, your centres get enlightened on the finger tips. And you start feeling the centres on your finger tips as described in the English language very correctly, ‘on your finger tips’. You get empowered on your central nervous system with a new awareness, which we call collective consciousness, which you can feel on your finger tips; first of all what’s wrong with your centres, and what’s wrong with other’s centres. Now if I can decode it and tell you what these centres are, what they denote, then you don’t need a doctor, you can just find out where the problem is, on what centre, the left side or the right side. If the left side stands for the emotional side and the right side stands for your physical and mental side, you can easily find out. And we have proved it. It has worked on many levels.
I’m happy to tell you that at Delhi University, they have accepted Sahaja Yoga as a post graduate course for doctors. The doctors will get a doctorate, a doctor of medicine. And the dean of the faculty of physiology has already submitted a thesis in which he has proved that physiologically a person becomes a much more resistant, powerful and healthy personality by Sahaja Yoga.
It’s no miracle. It’s all within. We do not know about ourselves. We do not know what powers we have. We get lost into artificial things, these man made concepts. But once you get to reality, you are the epitome of the whole creation. Now as we can say that we have a beautiful computer, but your human computer is much greater than these which are created by you. But we do not know how to work it out, that’s all. Like, supposing you take a television to an Indian village, where they have never seen a television, they won’t believe that on a little box like that you can see everything. But you plug it into the mains and it’s fantastic. So there is no miracle about it. If you know how it is done, how it is working out everything is open to you in Sahaja Yoga. Then you know it’s not miraculous; ‘sat’ – it is.
I love flowers, and when I look at them I wonder why people don’t wonder how they get these colours, and how they get this beautiful fragrance. We take it for granted because we see it every day and for us everything is so common. Like the first time I came to Holland, there was a festival here celebrating some sort of a centenary and such flowers, beautiful flowers. I was really amazed at the Dutch, the way they really love flowers. I have never seen such beautiful flowers before, and to me it was something so mysterious of these people to create such beautiful gardens. But now I know, and it is so enjoyable.
In the same way, when we enter into that realm of reality we enjoy ourselves and we enjoy others. This is the first time you will enjoy other people. Not for lust or greed or sex; no jealousies, but just for the innate quality of another person. The innate fragrance of that person you enjoy, which is subtle, and when you become subtle you feel that subtlety. So many things are there. I think, I would say that, as I entered into that beautiful garden, I would say I invite you to enter into the beautiful garden of your own personalities. And as Dutch people who are so sensitive to flowers and have been sending flowers all over the world, I hope the day should come, they should send their beautiful hearts all over the world, which are fragrant with love and compassion.
May God bless you all.
This is not a very routine thing, but we allow people to ask questions all the time. But one should know that we are here for seeking our own powers and not my powers. So if you have to ask any questions, I hope you will be a true seeker to ask a question I would love to answer. But while we are raising the Kundalini, I do not want your mind to pipe in that you should have asked this question. That’s the only function. We should do it so that your mind should be at peace when you are allowing your Kundalini to rise. But by asking questions or getting answers the Kundalini is not going to rise. It is going to rise by itself, spontaneously. So any questions you want to ask, you may please do so, but we should not waste too much time and I would say about three, four questions I would like to answer.
All right, one by one. Is she asking? Yes, please. Stand up madam (Long question inaudible). It should be a short question.
Question: Whether classical homeopathic medicines can support this experience; homeopathic medicines; of what value they are.
Shri Mataji: Yes, of course, of course. In medical science? No, no, no. (Lady talking – inaudible) Yes, of course in the classical books it is, but not in the medical science. I did that. There is nothing like that. They don’t know. They talk of the parasympathetic nervous system and they don’t know much about it, I must say, not much. They just know there is something. They are honest because they don’t know. They confess it. It’s all right.
R: The question was whether homeopathic medicine can stimulate the Kundalini.
H: Ayurvedic, maybe?
Shri Mataji: No. Ayurveda also doesn’t. It was… in the ancient times, must have been, because Ayurveda started very near the ‘tridoshas’. It is nearer to that, but still it doesn’t… they believe of course, all the ‘vaidias’ believe in Kundalini, no doubt. But they don’t know how to do it, so they are a little away from it. But ‘tridoshas’; means the three defects of the body; they have shown are of these three things; the three ‘doshas’, are the three nadis which we call as Pingala and Ida and Sushumna. These three nadis we too have. And the Kundalini rises through the Sushumna, but they don’t know how to do it so they treat it from outside. Still on that point maybe it’s beyond them, even for the ‘vaidias’. But some vaidias are realised souls; then they can. But they all know about it, I mean those who are knowledgeable. Nowadays there are modern vaidias also, so I don’t know about them, but knowledgeable people of the ancient times, who know the knowledge about it, they know about Kundalini, everybody knows. I mean, that’s one thing, Indians know about it.
Can you …you wait for one minute, sir, she has to answer.
Yes please. Yes, my child.
Question: She asked, if you are not prepared to receive the Kundalini, can it be dangerous at all?
Shri Mataji: No, that’s what I said! No! Not at all! She is your mother! When you are born your mother takes up all the load upon herself, all the pains. She takes up everything upon herself. Not at all! That’s all wrong! That’s what I was saying.
Sri Mataji: You say ‘mudra’ to ‘mother’?
Henno: What is that?
Sri Mataji: What do you say to mother? Mudra?
Henno: (doesn’t understand) Er… what did I say? (People laughing)
I don’t know. I told her that, er…
Sri Mataji: No, for mother what do you say?
Henno: Moeder. Moeder.
Shri Mataji: Mudre?
Shri Mataji: Very near Sanskrit!
Question: She asks whether Kundalini is for the earth the world peace.
Shri Mataji: Of course! Of course! You’ve got the point! I didn’t want to say it. A little understatement I wanted to make about it, but you have got the point, of course. Unless and until human beings are transformed, how are you going to get peace? Those who are in charge of peace, I’ve seen them, I know them very well, none of them are at peace with themselves.
With collective consciousness, you see, when there is nobody who is the other, when you are everybody. If you are my hands, my fingers, then how can I harm you? I cannot! And I don’t help you either, there is no obligation, there is no charity, it’s my own being itself! All right? That’s it, talking about peace is again talks. Talk, talk, talk, that’s what we do. Correct! She’s hit the right point. Perfect! You see, I’m a little afraid to say big things because you might think, this is another one, hocus-pocus, so I’m a little bit careful. But it’s a fact, you reached the right point I must say. I’m told Dutch people are very intelligent. If they are purely intelligent they’ll see the point very clearly. Maybe the United Nations next will be formed here. To see the point, that’s the point; you see, the thing is that you see the point. That it is the transformation of human beings which is going to bring forth all our ideas.
There is some gentleman at the corner who was saying something. Do you mind, sir, please.
Question: Why do some people compare this Kundalini yoga to the power of the serpent?
Shri Mataji: Oh, I see. That’s correct. That’s very true. It is not a serpent, I must tell you. It is not a serpent. But Kundalini is described as a serpent, because it is an energy; and energy moves in the same way as a serpent moves, you see. You have seen the waves in which the serpent moves, in the same way the energy also moves and that’s why it is described, because it is an energy first of all. And secondly, it has another quality that it is coiled up and with the head downward. That’s why it is described as a serpent. But it’s not a serpent by nature; it’s just the opposite of a serpent. But it’s described as ‘serpent energy’ because it is coiled just like a serpent would coil and it moves in the same way. That’s all, just to give a metaphorical explanation, you can say, at the most. But it can mean a very horrid thing in the English language; for us it is not. Indians understand what it is because we worship certain serpents also in India. So we don’t think serpents are as bad as you think. We think some human beings are even worse than serpents; who we worship and put on thrones. Serpents have certain qualities, like serpents will remain serpents, but human being can be serpents, can be scorpions, can be lions, can be anything. So human beings are more dangerous sometimes.
Question: Do they derive any benefit from worshipping these animal symbols?
Shri Mataji: No, you do not. But you see in India, why we worship them is that they symbolise certain qualities within us. Like a serpent now, in a subtler form, symbolises an energy which moves in this direction, that’s all, in a subtler way. The symbolism is not up to that limit, you see, it is just the subtler part of it, that’s why they worship.
And that’s how, for example, the cow is worshipped in India. And people might say; why worship a cow? Now the Indian cow, I don’t know if you have seen, but the Indian cow is in every house, and she gives us milk like the mother does, and she always loves us, and she is very kind, so naturally you don’t want to kill your mother. It gives you milk from childhood, you see. And also she sometimes sacrifices, doesn’t give to her children as much as she gives to us. And every day if you see a little cow tied in your house, taking her milk and grow fond of her, you develop that affection, naturally. I mean you cannot be mechanical; like a cow is there, you take the milk, drink it and then cut it down. It’s rather difficult, you know.
You must understand that the lifestyle is different. As you people love your cars, in the same way perhaps, maybe more than that, we love our cows, because cows are the ones, they give us milk. Then we don’t have your modern facilities of tractors and things, and we use the bullocks for our villagers. So one must respect their idea about it, there is nothing wrong with it.
For example, I would say in the West people don’t respect their parents so much. We respect our parents very much. And maybe it may not be very good from your logical point of view, but we must respect everyone that way. I mean, if you respect something, we respect that. I mean we may not respect many things which you respect, which are ridiculous to us.
The way people talk about sex in the West is ridiculous to us. The way women walk naked; it is ridiculous to us. I mean we really vomit when we see a naked woman, you will be surprised. If an Indian sees a naked woman on the street or anywhere, they vomit, actually that’s the repulsion. So are we to discard you for that? No. It’s all right. You like it, you have it. That’s the way it is, you see. So one should not impose one’s own idea about others. One should see… it’s a thing having a respect for a cow because she is in the house and she gives us… it’s nice to be that way.
And in India you‘ll be surprised that the cows, Indian cows, look very different from your cows. My grand-daughter when she came to England, she asked me, “All the buffalos in England are white?” I said “Where are the buffalos?” She said; “These are buffalos, aren’t they?” I said “No they are cows.” They don’t look like cows, they look like Indian buffalos. That’s a fact. Because, you see the treatment and the love and affection we give to them… like if you have a pet of a dog you won’t kill it, will you? In the same way, they are our pets; they are in the household. Try to understand. The life style is different. And that’s why people like them and I think one should not have any objection to these things, what others have to do. There is nothing wrong. If they were killing one could say, but they are not! There is nothing wrong in it.
Question.: (Man arguing about the idea of a serpent – inaudible)
Shri Mataji: I mean… it’s true! For us also it is. You have shown it many times that way. But here the serpent is not described as a serpent which is a Satan, but is an energy. You see Satan is a Satan for us; we never compromise with a Satan, that’s one thing. But I would say, you see, in India, as in every country, we have made mistakes. That has nothing to do with the philosophy, with the innate thing that is within you. Whether you call it a serpent or an energy what does it matter? It is there, you’d better have your realisation. What does it matter? You may call it… what will you call something that moves like this, upwards? What is the symbol? Is there any other animal you can say? Crocodile? No. You suggest to me. You tell me. What you will say to a thing that is coiled up and moves like that? Now tell me, you have to tell me. Please, I would like to get something else. But that’s the only way it works out, but it is not a serpent. I will show you that it’s not a serpent. That’s your Mother. That’s the Holy Ghost. (Man arguing) I don’t know what to do with the English, it’s very difficult. I’m sorry to say because English is a very confusing language, I must say.
(Inaudible interruption – man continuing to argue and get angry)
Now, excuse me sir, but will you be able to explain to me, what is the ‘Holy Ghost’? Just what is the ‘holy’ and ‘ghost’? Tell me, what is that? In the English language ghost means a ghost. Why do you call it the Holy Ghost? No, no, no, you just tell me this point. You see the language; you should not fight on superficial things. That doesn’t show your depth at all. You must have profundity. No you are not a profound person. (Man continuing to argue) I tell you really, what are you going to gain out of this discussion? Nothing, what are you going to get? You see, it’s superficial, it’s so superficial. One has to be profound; one has to be profound to get to something. There is no profundity. I expected better questions than this. You see if somebody symbolises something as something, it doesn’t mean you go to that extreme of anything, do you?
Actually, you’ll be surprised; the Kundalini is shown as a serpent among the Egyptians. If you see on their head, you will see a serpent on the king’s head. It’s also shown among the Jain religion which is a ‘Tirthankara’ called as Parshvanath, there is a Kundalini shown as a serpent. You see, so the symbol of the serpent that you have is going to the extremes and that’s the western mind, it always goes to the extremes.
Now, if you say this lady looks like a queen, that doesn’t mean that she has all the diamonds, does that mean? You see, don’t go to the extremes. It’s a very superficial way of looking at things, it makes no difference. In the English language now you call it the ‘Holy Ghost’, I have an objection to that. Why do you call it the Holy Ghost? It’s the Kundalini. It’s a much better word. Calling the Divine Mother a ‘ghost’, is it a very good language? I don’t think so. ‘Spirit’ for the devil, and ‘spirit’ for the vampires, and ‘spirit’ for a person who is a realised soul; on language we should not fight on this platform. We are not here to fight for languages, are we? All right, if you want to have your realisation, you can have it. But what is this fighting for languages? It shows your superficiality, that’s all. If you are superficial people, whatever you may discuss, you cannot get realisation, I tell you…. I verily tell you, you cannot get your realisation. You have to be a deep person, to understand. If you are a superficial person, you’d better go for a linguistic carrier and work it out there. This is not the place. We are talking of the divine language of love.
And if somebody doesn’t want to understand it… that all this talk has nothing to do with your Kundalini awakening… It’s a living process which has to work out within you. This has nothing to do with your Kundalini awakening. It’s an actualisation. It is not an artificial baptism that you accept without asking “What is all this nonsense going on?” There nobody asks questions. Who is this Holy Ghost? Ask the questions. Nobody asks. They take the children for baptism, where so many have said… like William Blake has said, “I was cursed by a priest putting his hand on my head.” I was myself born in the Christian religion, and I was also cursed like this. But you never asked questions, did you? Never! Now when it comes to something else, you start asking questions, that too so superficial, I would say. Very superficial! That’s not the way. That’s not the sign of a seeker. A seeker goes deeper into it. He has to seek. That’s the main thing. He has to find out. He has to get to it. That’s a real seeker. He is not bothered about the language part. I have not called it a serpent – if somebody has called it a serpent, you’d better go and discuss with them.
That is how one should not get disturbed with these things, you see. Why somebody calls it something…it’s all right, we have nothing to bother about. We have come here to get our own experience. That’s all. You have come here for something very special, which you have been seeking for ages, which you have to have and if you have these superficial ideas, I cannot work it out. I’m sorry. I am also helpless. By discussing you are helping no one.
Alright, so no more questions because it’s some sort of an aggressiveness that’s coming through, so it’s better not to have any more questions. Because it is not the way, this is not the platform for that. This is no election going on, nor am I preaching for any religion against another religion.
I’m telling you the point that is subtle within you, your own powers. If I say, “You have a diamond.” alright… you’ll say “Where is it?” Isn’t it? Won’t you ask me? Will you say “But it is said in the book like this.”? No, you will say, “Mother, show us the diamond, where it is.” If you are sensible, of course; sensibility is important. There is nothing to…
Now, please be seated sir. I’m sorry, because we have wasted our time and you can write it down and I will answer it tomorrow. (Man talks). Do you want your realisation, otherwise you can go out. It’s too much! You see these people are coming from some… (Man shouting loudly) What is it?
Henno: He is getting angry.
Sri Mataji: He’s drunk?
Henno: I don’t know Mother but he is not very kind.
Shri Mataji: All right. How can you have peace with such angry people? If you have to have peace, you cannot have anger like this. All right let it be, it doesn’t matter. They’ll be all right. They are ignorant that’s all. They’ll be all right. It’s nothing compared to others I have faced, they are much worse. (Sri Mataji laughing) I mean if somebody calls it a serpent energy, all right, so he has no business to jump on me. I never called it a serpent energy, did I? It’s terrible, you just see this ignorance, see this ignorance. So naïve people are. I feel so helpless sometimes in the West, not in India, no, they know.
They know what is a good guru and a bad guru. Now you have got bad gurus here, fake gurus. They did all kinds of wrong. So now they want to know how I am a guru. Guru means a person who makes you meet God. It’s said in the scriptures. I’ve been talking against them since 1970. That make out a guru who is a real guru and not somebody who gives you something false. Give it up, after all you are not here to live with a guru, you are here to get your realisation. Of course I’m not a guru also, I would say, I am just a mother. But you have to be a guru yourself. You have to be master of yourself.
And it is not something Indian I’m teaching about. It’s nothing Indian. India has lots of problems and lots of stupid things they are doing in the name of religion, no doubt, and in the name of philosophy. Horrible people we have in our country also. If you think I’m here propagating some sort of an Indian philosophy, you are wrong. But I must confess the roots are there, very deep down. Not in the English language but in Sanskrit. There’s no doubt, we must accept it. As we have in India learned so much about science from the West, why not learn about the science of the divine. If it comes from anywhere whatsoever!
We are not ‘East’ and ‘West’, God did not create that. He did not create India and Holland. He created one world. You send flowers all over, so what’s the harm? If it is good for us why not have it. If it can cure our cancers and can cure our diseases and it can give us balance and peace and joy and everything, why not have it? Let it come from anywhere. I’ve seen your tulips in Japan. I’ve seen them, lots of them; you do export, don’t you? We are all one, it must circulate, it must articulate. Let’s come to some sensible decisions about ourselves. Have we solved our problems? Have you got any way? Let’s talk about it on those terms. I never knew English; I had to learn to talk to you.
I don’t say you learn this language but you have to learn the language of the divine, that is silent and you can feel it as a cool breeze. It speaks to you on your finger tips. Just on your finger tips, you speak to the divine. Why not do that? You smile the same way as anyone does, you laugh the same way as anybody does. There is nothing like different nations, believe me, it’s our creation. Human beings have created it. The whole world is one. From wherever you get good, you must get it. Otherwise some people go headlong or some people just don’t go. So what’s going to happen? Some people are misled or some people are not there. But why not see? We are sensible, on the look out to begin with. I’ve nothing to gain, I’ve already told you I don’t take any money; you can’t give me.
But I promise you good health, I promise you peace of mind and I promise you the benevolence bestowed upon you by blissful existence. I promise you that. If I say that, then what is there to challenge me? For what? What am I saying to you? Am I asking anything? Am I saying you have to give up anything? Did I say so? I didn’t say. I said; as you are, it’s all right. You are invited, didn’t I say so? So why to challenge me? And why get angry with me? For what? Because somebody in olden times has called something a serpent? It’s absurd! Just see the absurdity of it.
All right, so forget it, forgive. Only thing, you should not be upset and your mind should be settled down. In a way it is evil, I think it is an evil thing to do, when we are talking of something constructive, just to destroy it with your own ideas. It’s very evil and it should not be done. Because the whole thing was very nicely built up, and you were all ready to receive it, and you will receive it. But don’t pay any attention to what he said or anything, or to what I said, just you have to receive it, that’s the point.
Now it will take hardly ten to fifteen minutes for this experience. If you get it today well and good, otherwise… tomorrow am I going to be here?
Henno: Tomorrow there will be follow ups.
Shri Mataji: All right, there are follow ups. And we have some very good Dutch people who are realised souls, and I have great hopes things will work out. All right, so those who want to go should go now. Don’t disturb in between, it’s only ten, fifteen minutes it will take. I would request you, those who do not want to have their self realisation, should please leave others in peace, that’s all, nothing else. To be civil to us is the best way.
Alright (Some people leave – pause.)
There cannot be any force on it; there cannot be any promise that it will work out. We cannot force you. It has to work out itself. As I’ve told you it’s a living process, it has to work out. And it cannot be also said that something is wrong with you because you did not get it. Maybe tomorrow, if not today, so you must give a full chance and have respect for yourself. And when you get your realisation, have respect for your self realisation. That’s all I want. When you get the experience, then you should be honest. When you do not get the experience then you should be a little bit assiduous and work it out. Also, I cannot give you a certificate, you have to certify yourself. You are in charge.
…Slowly open your eyes, very slowly. Please put now your right hand towards me, like this, and the left hand on top of your head, right hand towards me, right hand. And with the left hand on top of your head, about two inches, you see if there is a cool breeze coming. It’s you who has to certify it, not me nor a priest nor anybody; it’s you who has to certify it. A little higher. Alright? You’ll feel very peaceful because there is no thought; you are without thought most of you.
…Now all those who have felt the cool breeze, can you raise your hands, please, both the hands. Quite a number, quite a number!
…If you have felt the heat, most of you will feel heat, because you eat a lot of cheese. (Laughing) Holland cheese, you see. I used to eat it in my childhood. Did you feel that, madam? …You can put your left hand on your liver and put the right hand like this. The heat will be on the liver, you’ll feel it. The Kundalini attends to your problems, you see. If there is a liver problem, she attends to it. Put your left hand on the liver like this and put the right hand towards me. Is it better now?
Henno: She felt the heat only for a little moment.
Sri Mataji: Then it’s all right, you are all right. (Laughing) You are all right. It works that way, it works that way. Now you can feel on other’s heads also. Just see; just see on other’s heads. You got it? Good. There you are, just put your right hand. He has a liver, put your hand right like that. Yes. It’s good, good.
That is how they help you. This is what the disciples of Christ did you see. They moved their hands in this way, they started speaking the language of the chakras, centres, and people thought they were mad. You see this is the trouble.
…Now after getting realisation, one has to work it out and know everything about it, otherwise it is wasted, the way if a seed is sprouted and is left alone. You all will become experts in no time. About a month’s time is sufficient. You’ll be all experts and gurus; the masters. That is what is promised. Everything will be known to you, all the secrets.
(Shri Mataji works on people)
(To yogis)… What do you say? I’ve done it in good time!
Sri Mataji: Yes, madam, you felt the cool breeze?
Seeker: Thank you. You are beautiful.
Sri Mataji: What work do you do? …Now better? All right, may God bless you.
Please come for the follow on, please all of you come for the follow on. It’s such a wastage I feel sometimes. Please learn about it. Please understand that you are a divine person, that you are the Spirit. …
Seeker: But I want to tell you, I am a German and I love cows, and I don’t forgive the people who eat them. (Laughing)
Shri Mataji: No, no, no, no. That’s all right. They are in ignorance. All right now forgive, forgive, forgive. Forgive, forgive, forgive, forgive, forgive, forgive. Now see. All right? It’s working out? Forgive, just forgive. You see in the eyes of God, nobody is German, nobody is Indian, nobody is this thing. Everybody is a human being.
Seeker: But you were talking about the Germans like they are Nazis, you know.
Shri Mataji: There are some still, stupid people, you know.
Seeker: Yes there are, but…We are not all Nazis, and some of us even love cows.
Shri Mataji: Oh yes, I agree, we have so many Sahaja yogis who are German and you are going to be one of them. They are great people. Once the Germans take to Sahaja yoga, nobody can stop it. I know that. Alright? Still thinking! Now don’t think. Now forgive, forgive. Forgive, forgive, forgive, forgive. Ha, better, much better, now you can’t think. May God bless you. So hope to see you again. What’s your name?
Shri Mataji: Diana. All right, hope to see you….
Thank you. So beautiful the daisies… Ah, Dutch daisies are better. May God bless you
…Yes. How are you? May God bless you. Are you an Indian? You are from where? Oh I see from Indonesia! That’s the place where Sita went. In Bali, isn’t it? Good, you got it! You got it. Feeling nice? Alright. Hope to see you tomorrow. Come along, master it. You have to send it to Indonesia also. (Laughing) May God bless you.
H.H. Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi