Conversation with Dr. Talwar

Mumbai (India)

English translation of Shri Mataji’s talk (hindi) in conversation with Dr. Talwar and other sahaja yoga leaders on February 26 and 27 1987 on the occasion of shivaratri. Mumbai.

Sahaja yoga was known to me all along.

It is a unique knowledge with which I was born. It was not so easy to reveal it and I wanted to find out how to reveal it. First of all I thought that the seventh chakra must be opened, which I did, on 05th may 1970. It is a secret in a way. Formerly, the brahmachaitanaya was avyakta. It was not manifested. It was not expressed by itself, and so the people who managed to reach brahmachaitanya somehow, by attaining ‘realisation’ said, “It was nirakar ka guna. You are like a drop that gets dissolved in the ocean.”

No one could say, explain or tell people anything more about it. The great incarnations also who came out of this great ocean of brahma-chaitanya, tried their best to share it with the best available followers (which were very few) and introduce them to this brahma-chaitanya. But because the brahma-chaitanya was not in a vyakta form, these incarnations got dissolved in it. Like gyaneshwara took his samadhi. People said that he cannot talk. It has to be experienced. So very few people got to swallow it. Nobody could actualise the experience by feeling on their fingertips, or feel it on their senses, or on their minds, or even understand it with their intellect. So it was a big problem. They all tried and prepared a ground for it. Now I have come as the incarnation of the brahma-chaitanya as a whole.

The sea of the nirakar has now become a big cloud (saakar). It has taken a form. Those who came before were all a part-and parcel of it. Now the whole has come. This cloud has rain water. The rain water is nourishing the minds of the people.

Gradually they are brought to a level where their kundalinis have risen. They have got their realisation and now gradually they are feeling everything on their senses, their fingertips. This is the reason why nobody has talked about vibrations so clearly. They managed to talk about chaitanya lahiri. This was so because of its avyakta form. It was only a state. A state to be enjoyed, only in that state with no manifestation in the gross. In that state they went beyond temptations, beyond temper etc. That is proof before us. How they did it, what was this brahma-chaitanya? – they could not show its pratyaksha form.

What they could show was only through similes or through some parable. This is what I have achieved-its pratyaksha form. The complete form of the brahma-chaitanya I have brought from the sea. So now, I do not allow you to get dissolved in it. I have put it in the form of a big ghata. In that, you are smaller kumbhas. In other words, I have taken you all in my body as small cells, nourishing you, looking after you, cleansing you and working it out. But I am maha-maya. So I have to work very slowly, gradually, and at the right time and right point. When the seventh chakra was opened, all the chakras came to your Sahasrara, and so I could manage all your chakras and all your deities.

Any deity you ask and you get the vibrations. So that proves that I am the brahma-chaitanya. The brahma-chaitanya is the adi-shakti and sada-shiva is also in my heart. But since I am so much humanized, it is not so easy to find it out. If you tell this to modern human beings, they will not understand. It can only be told to sahaja yogis because they will understand. To bear this truth is so difficult. When one gets money or position, it is difficult to remain balanced. People become so shaky. So for them the fact that I encompass all the incarnations is too difficult to bear.

One day I went to aurangabad, where a boy told me that brahma-chaitanya is beyond feeling and non-feeling. He had read about it in some book. I told him it was true, but he should forget about it and just feel it. It was then that I decided to tell about it to a few people. You see, the right time also had to come before I disclosed it. All other religions have so far been segmented and on-integrated. Now the whole integration has come. I can now explain christ, mohamad sahib and others, because they are all part and parcel of the whole, which is brahma-chaitanya. Do not talk about me to the scientists. Just tell them that this is a unique method that has come, “Though it is a little difficult to understand, yet it has happened and we have seen it for ourselves.” Like that you tell them. If you talk about me, they will be shocked. Maximum you can tell them that, “This knowledge was brought out by shri mataji nirmala devi, by which the kundalini could be risen. How she has managed it, we do not know. It is probably a secret.” Put the whole thing on me. “Now you understand. Can you say-how does a seed sprout? By putting it in the mother earth.” So you say that, “By putting everything to mataji, our seed has sprouted. It is a living process and we have seen it for ourselves.”

So far nobody has been able to give realisation to others. May be only one or two have given realisation to others. Most people have achieved it by the process of cleansing. For example buddha got his realisation by thorough cleansing. Brahma-chaitanya crawled inside him because he asked for it, genuinely wanted it and prayed for it and was therefore cleansed by it. But again, he went into its state. There was no communication about it thereafter. This is what is in the collective now. This collective working is now happening because this state has started expressing itself. Supposing you discover electricity, and you keep it to yourself and not talk about it to anybody. Then how will anyone know about it? It is not that the great saints did not want to express it, but there was no communication then. It is just like if someone has no eyes to see, then whom are you going to show to or talk to? There was no one to appreciate and absorb that state at that time.

Those who did achieve realization, their Sahasraras got opened, but they got lost in it. The whole experience remained to be individual and not collective. Now that is over. Now it is collective. Everything has to be collective at a point. Even to reach this point, hard testing of the seekers was done. Ultimately christ got crucified. See how mohammad sahib, nanak and tukaram were treated? They come from vaikuntha, and see how they were treated? Things just did not work out then. I know all beyond the vaikuntha, but I have not revealed it so far. I will slowly reveal it because people are not yet prepared to become capable of absorbing it. You see, it is like the preparation of a khichdi. It is yet under preparation. So let it be cooked. You are all in it.

The quality of people being built up now is equivalent to the choicest of the handful of disciples of the past prophets. Now and here everyone is destined to come along slowly and steadily. All those who will now fall into this great pot of the supreme cook will be well prepared in it. Rest who opt to remain out will be left out. It is all beyond time. Each to his own capability to achieve. Just as it is difficult to say how long will one learn to ride a bicycle, or become a C.E. or a doctor. Some may take very little time, while other very long. The bondage of time is created by man himself. In reality this body has no timing. Time dimension has been created by man by his habits. With the formation of habits, the kaal or time bondage is created. When there is no habit, there is no time dimension. With sahaja yoga lots of habits leave you. But this takes time too. You must therefore never justify your habits if you want to rid them. It is with justification that habits stay. If in one life time you can achieve self-realisation, reach the point of having begun to lose your habits, then in that very life time it is possible for you to acquire that so called state. In the event that you may happen to remain half-baked during the process of one life time, then you will come back to complete your achievement. This is how sahaja yoga will now work out for some time. This is now the last judgement.

During the process of the revelations in sahaja yoga, when I still see people behave against it, I feel awesome. I continue to have such bad experiences at times but then such people leave sahaja yoga. This happens, but you must not get discouraged. You must go on working towards it putting in your very best efforts. Always remain in the centre. Do not worry about your growth in sahaja. Once you are in the centre, growth is automatic. It is already being nourished by me. Daily you move from left to right. In your habits you move towards the left while in ambitions you move towards the right. To set me in your heart, is a bhava or a feeling. So just as you develop habits on the left side, you must practice to have that habit-like bhava for me in your hearts. If so easily you can acquire your habits, then why not this beautiful bhava? All this is nothing but a change in bhava. After all habits are easy to relieve, being just a mere state of mind. Once you have established my bhava in you, it takes its position in your entire body and carries itself through eternity. Depends on how much you are using your Self to it. It is just like if you put lots of smoke on your room then all the mosquitoes will run away.

So it depends on how much of me you have filled in your hearts! The question that now arises is that, how does one come to stabilize the state of my bhava in one’s heart? The answer is – stability comes by constantly stopping your own attention or chitta. Always do chitta-nirodh. Just like you go out and you see something you must consciously stop your chitta from going towards it. It comes with practice. Pull it inside. This is called detachment. Remember of the contact outside, or samparka is always through the chitta. Watch where it goes all the time. Always ask yourself, where is my chitta? Actually chitta is segregated within us as our consciousness as well as our awareness within us. When our consciousness becomes one with awareness, it assumes the form of vibratory awareness which balances you. This balancing keeps you in the centre. The moment your chitta goes out in the wrong direction, immediately you feel the heat on your senses. That is how the all pervading power works and grows within you. All our habits and sanskaras crumple our brain formation and appears convolutions in the brain. When all these convolutions open up, new spaces are created in the brain, having more absorption power. The crumpled brain subtly opens. This is how the connection with the divinity is made.

Scientists basically have to be stunned. Like I went to a medical institute and I told them about the para-sympathetic nervous system. They got stunned. The mode of action of stiponilan adrenaline, they cannot explain, but we can. Now take carbon. If you see it from the left side, you can see the right side and vice-versa. On the left side you can see the figure of carbon as in form of a swastic. On the right side it looks like the omkara. If you see upward from down below, it looks like a cross. That is a fact.

Now to understand it is like you have to accept a hypothesis that there exists an all pervading power above the human brain. This is the only hypothesis. The human brain is in the form of a pyramid. The parama-chaitanya or all pervading power is coming from all sides and is striking the brain of a foetus (soon after its formation). What actually happens is that, at the apex of this pyramidal brain, the parama-chaitanya passes unhindered and settles down the spine in the inverted triangular bone area, at the base, in three and a half coils as the kundalini shakti. In the process it leaves its mark called the “vacuum channel” in the spine. Now the parama-chaitanya hitting on the sides of the triangular brain, has to permeate the grey and the white matter. These have their own densities, and so governed by the physics laws of refraction, the chaitanya refracts from left to right and from right to left. This is also called the prismatic refraction effect.

This phenomenon exists mostly for human brains and not so much in animals. During the refraction process, the human attention is pulled out to both the sides and is driven in the outward direction. Both the attention and the refracted chaitanya cross at the agnya chakra from both sides on their way out. As a result of this pull, an additional force called the resultant force is created.

Now the theory of parallelogram of forces (of physics) comes into play. The resultant force is divided into two parts, each being at a 90 degree angle to the other on both the left as well as the right side. The resultant force acts in the centre of its two counterparts. One part creates the left and the right sympathetic channel of the foetus by pushing its way down the body. The other part pushes its way out through the senses, dragging with it the human attention both to the left and the right. The second part is also known at the action in the outer world. From the outer world, this action brings back a reaction (another famous law of physics). The path followed by the action and reaction is the same. On the left side this reaction builds one’s conditionings while on the right side it builds the ego. In short, our chitta accompanied by the resultant brahma-chaitanya’s living force went to the outer world, collected a reaction and brought back with it a conditioning from the left, thereby forming the manasa or the mind.

Both the action and reaction pass through both the agnya and vishuddhi chakras. The chitta, being dispersed in nature, has the ability to flow from the whole body. The reaction of the left is the desire element, the potential of which gives birth to the ida nadi on the left sympathetic channel. Similarly, the reaction of the right is the action element, the potential of which forms the pingala nadi.

The overflow of the ida nadi forms a balloon-like cloud at the back of the agnya chakra called the super-ego, while the overflow of the pingala nadi forms a similar cloud in front of the agnya chakra called the ego. The agnya remains directly in-between these two balloons. The front of the agnya is controlled by the pituitary of the brain, while the back is controlled by the pineal. When the kundalini enters the agnya chakra, she enlightens, it. Then christ within you is enlightened or awakened. He sucks both these balloons of the ego and the super-ego, and the whole agnya chakra opens. That is why christ died for our sins. There is simultaneous opening of the Sahasrara. I saw the Sahasraras of the virat open. It was like tons of flame. Just like when you dissect the human brain, its cross-section looks like petals or like flames. In the centre of it, it looks like a yellow hole.

The opening of the Sahasraras is sudden. With a bang it opens. How can I explain, – it gives the effect of one telescope into another. Normally with the opening of the agnya and the Vishuddhi, the ego and the super-ego get sucked in. Mind is super-ego. Ahankara is ego. Our soul or atmanis surrounded by all the five elements plus their causal expression, with the kundalini on the periphery. The elements are mainly the earth and the water, while their causal is just jyotmatra. When self-realisation takes place, the deities are awakened, and the chakras are nourished and freshened. They open out and start releasing energies. At the pithas (representative points of the chakras on our brain) all actions begin against each related chakra. Coordination at both levels starts and all charkas get integrated. Take an example of your mind, it wants to do something. Your body,  it wants to do something else. Thirdly, your intellect,  it wants to do something else. There is no integration. On realisation, all three become one. Take another example of a piece of cloth, it represents the attention.

Before realization it is all spread out and in all directions. Now take a finger and poke the cloth in the centre from the bottom and raise it upwards. What happens? The cloth is pulled up to a point and in the process it just wraps or falls around the finger. In the same way, when the kundalini rises, it pokes the attention, raises it to the Sahasrara, where it gets enlightened by the light of the brahma-chaitanya. It then just wraps and falls in line with the kundalini’s path on the sushumna nadi in the centre. What has actually happened is that on realization, our chitta is pulled inside from wherever it is spread out in the outer mundane world. The chitta is thereby enlighted. This is the so-called state. But in reality we humans are slaves of our habits. We, out of sheer habit, do not allow our chitta to stay, put in that state permanently. Actually the chitta should not go out. Here is a simple situation that I find myself to be in with you: I am putting you in the boat to sail-off, but you are resisting my help by constantly sticking your one foot in the water. Your attention is on frivolous things you see, out of your habit you put out your leg, knowing very well, I am sitting inside to sail you through. I also happen to see that your leg may be swallowed any time by an alligator, but you, in your own habits are blind enough not to notice the alligator. Now, can you imagine my plight? Imagine how I feel? That is why I say – do satsang – meaning spend time with other sahaja yogis with the object to keep your attention in the centre.

It is very important to constantly keep your attention in the centre. With realization, our left and right nadis relax off upon receipt of divine energy. Due to release of tension, the chakras open out still further. It is a cycle. More kundalini fibres can then rise and soon. At this state the attention develops a quality to remain the centre. You can then direct it out to perform a particular task, and after achieving it, without any reaction, it occupies its position in the centre. It has by now achieved the quality of not getting attached to anything. In my case it is different. If my attention is on you, I will take all your problems into myself and cleanse it and myself suffer. This I will do only if I want to. Now, sahaja yogis, I have to fix, because I have put them indiscriminately into my body. So I have to suffer. The sahaja yogis themselves are just barometric in this regard. They cannot suffer the way I do, may be a little bit, because whatever they suck, goes into the vast ocean. Now the study of the fifth dimension of matter is going on in russia-the study of bioplasma. This is completely a right sided activity.

Each human being has his own aura and depending on his changing gunas, the colour represented by that guna or aura changes. What do you give bandhans to? To your auras so as to protect it. Only matter can have an aura. So it is all materialistic. The fifth dimension is actually a microscopic or a photographic dimension. So when you see some lights in my photographs, it is one form of an aura. You see brahma-chaitanya has got its own light. This is only visible to me. Some people can also see it when their agnya is bad. They can see it from outside. The principle is that when you are away from it, you can see it, but when you are in it, then what can you see? Thoughtless awareness comes when your kundalini crosses the agnya chakra-when there is no thought. It happens by control. Slowly it becomes a part of you and encompasses your whole body. It becomes a state. This is doubtless awareness. You become the brahma-chaitanya or the state. At this state, you all need to work for me and not just land up in the state and get into a samadhi. I have achieved it for you without giving it to you. Then why do you ask for it? You must know that you are there and there is no doubt about it. This is now the final game.

In reality this state is very easy and spontaneous to achieve, but yet I would like you to work for it and try for it. When you feel like achieving this state right now and for your own individual self, then I would say that you are being selfish and in a way you are becoming an escapist. You have to first become collective. Otherwise on an individual basis you will get lost in the nirakar and you will not even be able to see me. You see, you will be in that state-you will be dissolved in the ocean. So evolving from the ocean and dissolving in it is not anything unique or great. But to become a cloud from the ocean and then soak everyone with your rain-water would surely be a unique achievement. This is my aim and also my game. Just as every game has an aim, so has mine: to stay in the centre, become sharanagata (surrendered), say, “You are everything mother, so you do everything.” It is complete surrender.

For a scientific mind, you have to give them this whole vidya (knowledge) in bits. If their cup is small you cannot fill more than the capacity it can take. So have patience. You cannot give them the whole ocean now. Remember that science is only a little part of the whole. First create a craving for sahaja in them by introducing it to them. Once they come, then watch them. Remember your time? The same thing happened with each one of you. At first you experienced it then craved more and more for it very progressively. This process is also scientific. In the mundane, when you work to earn money, you will encounter the maya. Just remember that you are earning for me. That’s all. Go ahead and earn as much as you can. This I am only talking from the materialistic point of view. People who come into sahaja yoga through you, Sahaja yogis, come better than through me. You see, with me they tend to get entangled in maya. See, I am nobody in my human form as far as the new comers are concerned.

Epilepsy. Cause: movement of the attention to the extreme left. Collective subconscious is the state into which you go. This happens when you develop some fear or fright being a weak person on the left side. Also when you happen to be involved in an accident – sudden fright or jerk. Cure: bring attention to the centre. To do this, first bring it to the right by saying the gayatri mantra. Then to the centre by saying the brahmadeva-saraswati mantra. On moving to the right, you start feeling vibrations, stop at this point. Do not say any more gayatri mantra because you must not go too much to the right. Too much to the right means the frequency of vibrations start decreasing. Example – mr jalan’s mamdi’s cure. It needs proper adjustment from one side to the other. It is important that you must get the vibrations. If not, then repeatedly raise the kundalini till you feel the vibrations. Another best way is to put the left hand towards the photograph and the right on the ground. Say mahakali mantra so that the vibrations start flowing. Use of the candle from the back side on the left will also help. This treatment is also the same for cancer, other psychosomatic diseases. It includes muscular skeletal disorders. In muscular problems, the trouble comes from your disturbed sri ganesha (mooladhara). In hysterectomy cases, where the uterus is removed the problem is of sri ganesha (mooladhara). And fear element. If somebody is not having a child, then she has a left swadishthana problem. Same problem is also true for heavy periods – when there is too much stimulation in the parasympathetic in the sacral region, there is too much flow resulting in heavy bleeding. Other results are diarrhoea and excessive urination.

Cure: use of gayatri mantra, initially, but it must also be backed by some medicines. You can give ajvain ki dhuni (even for surgery patients). For lumbago you give ajvain ka pani. For muscular lumbago use ajvain for intake and geru for application only. In lumbago the bone gets twisted, therefore use vibrated kerosene oil mixed with some other oil. In few days it gets alright. For any treatment whatsoever, remember that the most important fact remains that everything depends on your ichha or desire shakti. So ida nadi is important that you must have desire and it must be the right desire. No wrong desires because eventually everything goes back to the desire. If you have wrong desires and you do action, then everything become mechanical and hypocritical. The right desire is only to achieve your growth. This is shuddha-ichha. If you have gross desire like – I must have a son etc. You have it too, but then you will want something else also. Meaning that you are now becoming hypocrite. In pure desire you get everything in a bundle. It is from genuine desire that you grow. This whole concept is your attitude towards your ichha-shakti. Now take the action energy or kriya shakti. This has two aspects, namely physical and mental. Physically you must sit down and meditate to become thoughtless. Mentally you must see that your mind does not go towards all nonsensical things in gross forms. All that you must say is: “mother you are doing everything. I do nothing”. This is the control on you. For both left and right sided persons it is important to first cleanse yourself and then do your meditation. Then you move towards the left side, you raise your kundalini and it just comes out. You must raise your kundalini before meditation. Do not just be mechanical when sitting to do puja. Your desire must be genuine to grow. People who are from arya-samaj are basically right sided people. They must use bhakti, bhajan, seat me in their hearts i.e., move towards the left side. Cleansing must be done only by use of mantras on the central chakras. Mahakali and maha saraswati, both act on the centre from both the sides and are therefore interconnected. Even the mantras for the left and right are chanted only for the purposes of raising the kundalini alone. There is no use of attention here. Treatment of left side through chanting of mantras for raising the kundalini is only to improve upon your desire energy. Another way is to raise your right and lower it to the left by hand. This helps a lot. In addition activate your right side by mantras of brahmadeva and of gayatri. But all up to a point. You see when I have to do it I control it by raising your kundalini up to a point. And before it goes too much to the other side, I control by pulling it out just in time. It is all in my control. When people do not control, they just go on and on – like rama, rama…panduranga, panduranga… – and get lost on one side totally. Mother is now asking you all , “Where is your attention?” First must come bhakti bhava and this then must move onto shraddha bhava. On physiotherapy:-when the vibrations flow, they relax the muscles. The muscles in reality have gone into spasms due to tensions e.g. left Vishuddhi or any chakra. The vertebrae start to twist (physical). When you put your chakras in me (in my care) they will be relaxed and then you can adjust by giving vibrations. Those vibrations can be given to others. You need not touch the other person, but give vibrations by using circular movement by hand using mantra. In left sided diseases, you get into the collective subconscious from where you collect protein 52, viruses. These make you beyond help sometimes. Fever is caused to those whose liver is out, who has overworked his liver. He is heated up etc. It can be corrected by putting ice on the liver. Malarial fevers are right sided i.e. mosquito bites. Bacterial fevers are left sided. These are mainly due to certain in-takes of food such as fungus like mushrooms, old paneer etc. Diabetes is the action of the right side affected by the left side, right side being vulnerable. Firstly when you think too much, pay no attention and remain in your habits, then a fear element adds to your vulnerability. Just like a hard working man thinks too much. All his fat cells are used for the brain. The Swadishthana goes into and neglects its left counter part. The left side gets drained. You become vulnerable. At this state if some fear comes up in you and you also start feeling guilty, then you develop diabetes. Correction is use hazrat ali’s mantra. Source is from swadishthan and nabhi of the left. Left nabhi gets first affected by having fear of wife or worries for her or any other family member. In addition your vulnerability at that point brings about diabetes. Clear it by cleaning your agnya chakra. Don’t think so much. Go into thoughtless awareness. Put left side to right side. Take more salt so that it neutralizes the action of sugar excretion because it has got water of crystallization. Use ice on right swadishthana and nabhi. Avoid sugar after proper tests if necessary.

Heart attacks: over active or inactive or lethargic heart. Over active heart is of right sided people. In such cases the heart can collapse. Especially it can happen in very young age. This is because their attention is too much outside. Due to this their atma departs. The atma gets no attention due to their extreme materialistic nature. Over activity can also come from too much worry about family, thinking too much of the future. The heart starts to pump more blood and overworks itself. It gets tired. In addition the attention is not on the spirit. For lethargic hearts, these people take all kind of mantras and first spoil their left vishuddhi. They take tobacco and cigarette, creating a problem on left vishuddhi. This makes the pumping of heart difficult, so it becomes tired because it cannot pump. Due to extreme left vishuddhi, the lethargic heart gives you angina. These are two types of heart attacks. The first type can be cured by putting ice on the stomach and on the heart on the right side. Also moving left to right. Sit in water. Do not use light at all. Sleep in darkness, stay more indoors. Take full rest. And repeat that, “ I am the Spirit”, “Oh lord, please forgive me.” The second type can be cured by asking him to say, “Mother you are my beeja mantra. You are the mantrika.” Also, “I am not guilty” and say, “I forgive everyone lord.” So that all the hurts disappear. Use lightened fire to clear the left side. Asthma: is mostly a left sided psychosomatic disease. It can sometimes be right sided with the persons who are very dry and have always tried to dominate others, the dryness of the peritoneum is too much. Mostly it also comes from the right heart for those whose father is dead or that you are not a good father or that you happen to trouble your child or that you are unhappy about your own Self. It can be combination of any intake. For left side, if people eat the fat is very bad. Because the fat is stored and it is not available for circulation. For thin people their fat is available for circulation, so they can eat fat. But for fat people, they should only put fat in their nose, oil in their ears etc. For fat people oil massage on the head is very good. Thin people can massage with golden amla hair oil. It cools them down.

Urticaria :- is also psychosomatic. When your liver is lethargic it becomes vulnerable. Cure: use geru – rub it on some stone and give it to your child in honey ( very little), also for grown ups. For very old people it is also very good for it has soluble calcium. Any soluble calcium is good. It is good for application and then cover it with something black. The source of its problem is left nabhi. You see when the liver is lethargic, the left nabhi becomes lethargic. The person is not using much of his energies. So it is a lethargic liver, excited by the left nabhi.

Treatment: is again left side. Best is to cover the body with something black, so that the heat is given to it. You see, it is a form of an allergy. Most allergies are caused from cold to hot: i.e. taking bath in cold water and then hot water, to take coffee and then immediately taking cold water. This sudden change, the system cannot adjust to. In the left nabhi area is the spleen. The spleen is the speedometer and also an adjuster. When it adjusts and it is not properly done due to sudden change, it causes problem. So it has to suddenly provide its energies to either increase or decrease the flow of rbc’s. That’s how the spleen goes crazy. This is also cause of blood cancer in the people who are hectic. When you have the back agnya working, you become lethargic and when you have the front agnya working, you become overactive. The balance of chemicals in the body comes from the agnya. That is why you should always be in thoughtless awareness. Left sided people are those who have troubles themselves and right sided are those who trouble others. So those who are left sided, their bodies will pain and they will suffer. The right sided people , who inflict pain in others will not notice it. These right sided people can therefore develop problems like cirrhosis of the liver or a problem on the eyes. Bhakti is the guna of the left. Shraddha is of the centre. The left side is very pleasant till you start getting the pangs and then you start getting drifted away- this is happening in bhakti with some people. When I speak, every word is a mantra. As I speak people start getting alright. Now all types of people are coming up. Some are coming up very fast now. As far as I am concerned they have put me aside as devi and that I cannot be reached. Now it will be one of you only who will stand up and people will see you and come into sahaj yoga. This is the best way- to let some people just come up. This is the game. Lots of people have personalized it. They want to know what is happening about it in my family, then to others , then to people of bombay etc. Sahaj yogis are very honest, compassionate and diligent, good natured and have lesser temper. Their character has assumed a new dimension in this process of building up. Each one of you must work hard towards it and not bother too much about the other. Sthiti ( state) is tested only when you are exposed to it. That is the time for ‘paristhiti’ ( situation): sthiti (state) must be clubbed with complete discrimination. There are deities who are in the chakras. When kundalini rises, she awakens them just like seeds. Once they are awakened, they start working it out. They know what is their job, what to work out like they have been appointed. These deities you have achieved through your evolution at different points. So wherever they are settled, they do their job. Take a seed, it is gross. It has potential to become a tree and this has the potential to become numerous trees. So this potential is subtle to the subtler to subtlest. Its appearance is gross. The causal of mother earth is fragrance so when it awakens the kundalini, it touches the causal also just like you get the fragrance. The causal of realization is shuddha ichha (pure desire).

Man is made of three potentials i.e. gross, subtle and causal. This causal of realization i.e. shuddha iccha ( pure desire) enlightens the subtle and the gross bodies. Just like you put the seed into mother earth. The mother earth enlightens the seed and gives its potential to it. In the same way, the kundalini is the mother earth in you. She rises and gives this potential dimension to your seed. Everything has different causal and so every chakra acts according to its own causal. The problem is, we do not understand it even on the grosser level. Now take a very gross level, you reach a point where to take an atom. This atom has nucleus which has protons, neutrons and mesotrons.

Now if you cool down this atom such as helium gas, the atom becomes collective. So also the mesotrons act on their own, and even they become collective when cooled to a certain point. So even to the grosser and grosser, this potential exists. Scientifically it can be proved. When we take a human being, we are talking about a living process. The human being has most manifested one on the grosser level. Now, the inner growth has to come. On grosser level he is now fully manifested. Just take a seed which has reached its grosser level and is now living and pulsating and it is then put inside mother earth then what is to happen? Thus, the subtle and the subtlest is replicated in your whole being as such. The potential is the kundalini. The kundalini is representing the causal of mother earth. The causal of virata is collectivity. The representatives of sadashiva and adi shakti in us are atma (spirit) and the kundalini (these are beyond the causal, in fact they excite the causal).

Take an example: light a candle. Put your hand before it. It is awakened before my photograph. The potential of candle has come in. That is, my photograph has awakened its potential. And with it, it can now burn the negativity. You have seen a wall getting black out of such an effect. Everything has a causal which keeps all the potential. From causal to gross you move through the subtle. Now what happens, just as fragrance is causal of the mother earth, through that causal all flowers and trees come out. Also for human beings it is the carbon. How the mother earth burns within herself, creates this carbon within herself with the heat and that carbon becomes a part and parcel within you to create amino acids. So the mother knows, at the causal level, she knows what you are. The causal is the nirakara (formless) in the shakti form while the deities are in sakara ( form) to use it. They know how to use it. The exhibition of it comes on the gross through the central nervous system. The sakara ( with form) is the doer or the ‘karta’. The causal is the power of particular deity- the unmanifested power. But as soon as the deities are awakened, their powers are also awakened. This is a living process and how it works out you cannot explain. Now see the foetus, how does it take its forms, who guides it? There must be some intelligence! Who does it? Who manages it? Who plans it out? Now I will question a gynaecologist: anything foreign in the body is thrown out of the system, then why not the foetus? Answer me. Something nourishes it, looks after it and then throws it out at the right point of time. It is growing within and it does not trouble the mother, but in fact the mother’s face changes while the whole energy of the being is transformed. Now where does this beauty on the mother come from? See the nourishing and looking after. It is so amazing to see its perfection, isn’t it? We think no end of our intelligence. But living in the presence of god, a small seed came and at the end of each a small cell came out. The intelligence which this cell has, if it comes to man then sahaj yoga would be fully established. It sees its own direction in straight way. It sees a stone, it doesn’t fight with it, it just goes around it and binds it so later when it is to become tree it will help in its foundation. Then slowly, and easily it reaches out towards the water. It has no premonition about where it will find the level of water. I once experimented with a bumblebee. I applied some colour on to it as it used to make its own house at my place. Now somehow that colour came to its wings. One fine day I went to a place which was very very far away, I saw the same bumble bee there. Then she was seen again in my house. How did she take on all these routes? She must be having some magnet! Also how do birds find their homes from australia to siberia? You see they are in collective and absolutely homogeneous. And they all move together. This all for the “pasha” (bondage) state of the pashu (animal).But we human beings are no longer pashus ( animals). We are free. Now it is in this freedom, when lots and lots is lost and gone, then human beings settle down. This freedom was given to adam and eve level. If they were sensible, there would have been no problem. Now one has to pay too much for his freedom.

Now just see what is happening to me in the midst of this freedom. But now-a-days it is all working out. This living process cannot be explained to science. The scientists will not accept the deities. So don’t worry about them. If we don’t have scientists what is the harm, we will not miss them. The greatest thing for all scientists is to see for themselves. Nothing can be explained to them. Say sulphur dioxide has got vibrations that are electromagnetic – symmetric and isosymmetric. They just state what they see. They will see in sahaja yoga what it is, you give them the facts and let them experience it. How can you show them anything scientifically?