Shri Mataji Interview with Channel 7 News (with Andrew McCullen)

Brisbane (Australia)

1987-05-05 Shri Mataji Interview with Channel 7 News (with Andrew McCullen) Brisbane, Australia, DP, 35'
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Interview With Channel 7 News, Brisbane, Australia, 05-05-1987

[Interviewer is getting his realisation from Shri Mataji. Bad sound quality throughout]

Yogi: Don’t think, just look over here. [at Shri Mataji’s bindi] Just put your attention here [top of the head] within you, you just have to ask Shri Mataji… [break in recording]

Interviewer: It should be blowing, going towards… [unclear]

Shri Mataji: A little hot. You’ll be all right. English – it took Me four years to crack seven [unclear/hearts]

Interviewer: Four years to crack seven English [unclear/hearts?] It is hard to get Self-Realisation.

Shri Mataji: No, no, no, yours is very easy. English very difficult. We have now some English there and they know about it. Can you loosen your tie a little bit? [Shri Mataji puts Her hand on the interviewer’s right shoulder] This tie gives a feeling that you are on duty.

Interviewer: Yes. [unclear]

Shri Mataji: He is all right, he is going all right – only thing is that now [unclear] [Shri Mataji works on his right hand]

Interviewer: [to Yogi nearby] How did that feel to you, the first time you felt it? 

Shri Mataji: How much time for you? 

Interviewer: How many years, how long does it take to [unclear]?

Sahaja Yogi: It is unusual, it took three months.

Shri Mataji: You felt after three months? Really?

Interviewer: It took you that long?

Indian Sahaja Yogi: Yes, one gentleman took ten seconds.

Shri Mataji: You see he is a Christian, and he told Me that, ‘If you are going to the church, won’t God give us realisation?’ I said, ‘Yes if you love Christ, you definitely don’t need the church.’ He just put his hands…, but another gentleman did not.

Interviewer: So, from – we take the coat, the coat off, that’s the sort of thing I’m used to… 

Shri Mataji: That would be good idea.

Interviewer: [takes his suit jacket off] and slightly loosen the collar…

Shri Mataji: Yes, now we’ll see, there’s a little [unclear]

Interviewer: I am very anxious to…

Shri Mataji: Very, it’s very important. [working on his right hand] I think it’s good. All right? [inaudible]This is the land of [unclear] 

Interviewer: Is there anything to do, I mean it’s relaxation…

Shri Mataji: No, no, nothing. You have to forgive; just forgive, forgive, forgive, forgive, forgive.

Interviewer: Others can feel it, but I can’t…

Shri Mataji: I tell you, you have been working too hard, working all too much, going on to the right side too much, and we are trying to bring you to the left side, you see: bring you to the centre. When we try to bring you to the left, it’s no good, you see it’s just going round.  

Interviewer: You have to bring me back.

Shri Mataji: Yes. It’s like a [unclear/cape] 

Indian Sahaja Yogi: Don’t think about it. Don’t be anxious about it.  It gives you all the [unclear] and you’re missing out on what could happen right now. 

Shri Mataji: This is a simple thing. If you are simple person say, or like a child, he doesn’t take responsibility, [unclear] and this desire [unclear] 

[brings his hand to top of his head] No, nothing? [Shri Mataji laughs] All right…

Interviewer: It may take…it needs obviously… it would need, obviously more…

Shri Mataji: For some people, for some. You see, just now you are anxious and everything. You’ve got – you’ve worked very hard and after working hard, you are just [unclear.] You are part of your world.

Interviewer: Do You find there are people who are sceptical about…

Shri Mataji: Yes, I think you are also a little bit.

Interviewer: Do You find that that could be, that could be the sort of thing that…

Shri Mataji: Yes, it does, it does. You see how obstructed you are: the more you think about everything it, you see, it stops it. The more you don’t think about it – let it go, you see. Sort of, you have to let it move, let it work out, because it’s a very natural thing. [She is still holding his hands through all this conversation]

Interviewer: But if you do give in to it, if it does work, it can change people’s lives?

Shri Mataji: Of course. It can transform.

Interviewer: You were telling me that, before that it’s possibly…

Shri Mataji: In any case it has worked in you; in any case, inside you. Outside you may not be feeling; you may not see the change now.

Interviewer: You have said it can even cure AIDS. You’ve cured people with AIDS before – can You tell me about that?

Shri Mataji: Yes, Yes.

Interviewer: When was this, that you cured people of AIDS?

Shri Mataji: Two years back, when I came first to Australia, but the fellow went back to the same bad habits.

Interviewer: But the medical sciences have not been able to find a way to cure and people have been dying. People have been living because of…

Shri Mataji: No, they can’t find it, they can’t, because you see, they go from outside in. I am coming from inside out.

Interviewer: You tell me You warned people in America; who did you warn in America about…?

Shri Mataji: Everyone! On the television, in 1974.

Interviewer: in 1974? Where did You go and what did You say?

Shri Mataji: San Francisco.

Interviewer: What did You say? Who did you warn?

Shri Mataji: I warned it on the television.

Interviewer: Yes, but what sort of things did You say?

Shri Mataji: I said that there’s a [unclear] if you follow those immoral practices. You see, in the media I can’t say everything so openly. I said it, that the way you are following these immoral sexual nonsense, you are going to get a disease.

Interviewer: Homosexuals, You mean?

Shri Mataji: Of course, and then they telephoned to Me when I went in… ‘77 I was last in –’76, ‘76… ’76 they telephoned to Me: ‘Mother you had warned us.’ [Yogis: ’86.] ’86. They said, ‘We’ve got it now.’

Interviewer: But You believe You can cure people with AIDS? You still believe that’s possible?

Shri Mataji: Possible, it can be. Right now, to the minimum of minimum where it is not, sort of, dangerous.

Interviewer: What can You tell people to do?

Shri Mataji: Get realisation first, that’s important. We have some, already, people whom I have cured of AIDS with us.

Interviewer: Do You believe this could cause more people to come now, to be cured, because of that, a hope for survival? There’s a lot of people with AIDS who have no hope. Are you giving them a real hope to survive?

Shri Mataji: You see, the thing with such people: have to have the willpower not to go back to the same stuff, because I have cured one person, definitely, here. He was very sick, and he was completely cured – his father [unclear/got letter] he was cured and again he went to the same stuff and he got it; he died. So naturally you see, you feel absolutely, sort of frustrated; you work on a person, you tell them everything, you work it out, and it doesn’t… they do not take that seriously. And then again they do the same thing. So, My main interest is to give realisation. With that, if they get cured: well and good.

Interviewer: If somebody’s not married, if they’re not prepared to get married – man and wife – will they get realisation, or is that something… they have to be in… 

Shri Mataji: No, no, they should not be adamant about anything: ‘I will not marry, I will not do this, I will not…’ You see, that gives you a kind of a willpower, which is very strong and you become very, sort of, self-opinionated personality, but you just don’t care: ‘I don’t want to marry. I don’t want to have anything to do with marriage,’ like that, then the balance is not there, because married life gives you the balance, also.  [unclear] she said: ‘Oh, you are working too hard, let’s go for a holiday.’ She is the one who brings the balance, isn’t it? But, because you are single, you can do what you like with yourself. You can destroy yourself, you can take to drugs; you can do what you like, there’s no balance on you.

Interviewer: Do I… if I can’t find realisation, do I need it to be a happy person first of all? Do I need realisation? A lot of these people around me, they feel their lives are now whole and complete, because of it, and may be [unclear] 

Shri Mataji: You will also get it, but you are [unclear/ a little hard-working.]

Interviewer: A little hard?

Shri Mataji: I am sure it will work. You have to come to Me, and I’ll see you. Because there’s a little liver problem, you have this problem here [Right Vishuddhi] and this problem here. [front Agnya] These three problem are to be attended.

Interviewer: They’re not medical problems?

Shri Mataji: These aren’t.

Interviewer: I couldn’t go to a doctor and get a prescription for them.

Shri Mataji: No, because they would never find out anything wrong with the liver, they will not find anything wrong with this [unclear re Right Vishuddhi] and this they will not find anything. [front Agnya]

Interviewer: Just as a journalist, I’m just asking about Your visit to Australia – You’re speaking tonight, how long will You speak and what sort of…

Shri Mataji: I’ll be speaking for about an hour or so at the most, and then I’ll try to give them realisation. In a group, people get realisation much faster, and I hope you come there.

Interviewer: That would be tonight.

Shri Mataji: Yes tonight. Please come, I am sure you will get it.

Interviewer: It‘s an expensive business for You to travel round the world…

Shri Mataji: Oh, no, not for Me, it’s, you see…

Interviewer: Do people, do You find people are giving You [unclear/something towards…]

Shri Mataji: No, sometimes they do, not to Me, but sometimes they do give it to the [unclear], they pay for their travel – I don’t take anything. But My husband is quite well off. But sometimes they feel that Mother should not pay for their salvation, you see, so we give to the [unclear] people. I don’t know how much they have paid for Me.

Interviewer: Thank You very much.

Shri Mataji: May God bless you. I hope you’ll come. You must come and get it, all right?  Very important. It’s very important; you may be the one who’ll  save those people.

Interviewer: [unclear]

Shri Mataji: You never know. You may be the person who will save them. [to Yogis] Because he is interested  so well in everything quite a lot. I mean, it’s the first time I am meeting somebody who is interested in finding out what is this. But rest of them are not at all interested.

Interviewer: Thank You and thank you for all your time.

Shri Mataji: Thank you very much. May God bless you. [unclear] realisation. They say he has got it but he has to feel it later. How about, what about you? When did you feel? Hello? [Shri Mataji speaks to someone else]

Technician: Straight away, Shri Mataji.

Shri Mataji: Straight away?

Technician: Yes, [unclear]

Interviewer: [unclear] directly from the source.

Shri Mataji: But you will feel the change, you’ll feel better.

[inaudible chatter]

Interviewer: Can I just…

Shri Mataji: I am also getting busy like you. [laughs] I didn’t get your name.

Interviewer: If I could just get You…

Shri Mataji: I must know your name.

Interviewer: Andrew.

Shri Mataji: And you?

Technician: I’m Toby.  

Interviewer: [to others] If you could just come out here, behind the lady. We just need a couple of pick-up shots, just some other shots. While it isn’t raining… Actually, is it too wet for everyone to sit down? [break in recording]

[unclear dialogue as they take footage of Shri Mataji walking around the area. A few more breaks in recording]

Interviewer: For people who, or Australians who may not have heard of You, and there are obviously many of them, what is the general, Your general philosophy?

Shri Mataji: I think God has given us [unclear/mediums] to inform them much better than Christ had, these days and one can inform everyone through media, if media is helpful.

Interviewer: You are talking about the role of media in…

Shri Mataji: Yes, that’s very good.

Interviewer: But I’m just asking You, what… people who follow Your thinking, what do they have to do, what sort of commitment do they make?

Shri Mataji: They make no commitment but to themselves. The thing is, so far, there has been never such an en-masse realisation to people, that you feel your Spirit. Once you feel your Spirit, that becomes your guideline, then you commit yourself to that Spirit which gives you real knowledge about everything. For example, once you get your realisation, you’ll start feeling the cool breeze on your fingertips, as they say. But actually, all your sympathetic nervous system centres get enlightened and they give you messages. On that, you know what’s the matter with you. Supposing somebody is suffering from a very serious disease, he may not know it till you have diagnosed it and gone into it, or until you are absolutely on a deathbed sometimes. But with this, you can be immediately conscious that you have this problem, and if you know how to correct – of course, that also you have to learn – then you correct your physical being, you can correct your mental being, you can correct your, also intelligence, you can correct your ideas, you can correct your conditionings, you can correct your ego, and that’s how you become yourself. You are not a reactionary, that you react to something, but you become yourself and you know what is the self is. And apart from that, your all commitment is to your own peace and to your joy.

Interviewer: The faith though, is it a matter of faith?

Shri Mataji: No, not at all, it’s an evolutionary process just like natural. As you see the trees growing up, they have come out of the Mother Earth, and now there will be flowers, there may be fruits. In the same way, the time has come for human being to be fruits. It’s just evolutionary; the time is such.

Interviewer: Can You, are You saying that people can be aware of their spiritual problems and physical problems? You’re not saying that, some sort of … will some sort of belief in themselves cure their physical problems?

Shri Mataji: No, not necessarily, because once you get your Spirit enlightened, it gives light to it. Like supposing I am carrying a snake. There’s no light, I think it’s a rope. But when there’s a light, I see the rope is a snake, I throw it away: it’s as simple as that.

Interviewer: Now, You talk about a form of yoga. To a lot of people, yoga is a physical, mental relaxation, but doing a number of yoga poses and exercises, is that also part of it?

Shri Mataji: It can be very dangerous, you see, because they have no science about it, they don’t understand when to use which yoga. It is just a sort of, taking all the medicine box into your stomach; that is how they are doing [unclear/problems] because it is very half baked ideas. We do use sometimes, this yoga or physical side sometimes, if there is a kind of an obstruction, a physical obstruction on a particular chakras; we do use, but when it is necessary, for what chakras it is necessary. It is a thing to be understood. [break in recording]

[inaudible conversation as camera angle is changed]

Shri Mataji: You see people, I don’t know why, but we care for more about people who sort of, bombastically [unclear], something like, you see there is a big mystery, you can kill your enemy and you can destroy them. But are all very, you see all sort of, very superficial, [unclear] and this is all, they are using [unclear/black magics.]

Interviewer: [unclear]

Shri Mataji: And they take a lot of money out of it, for this, you cannot take any money.

Interviewer: Yes, You said, there is a lot of people [inaudible] [break in recording]

Shri Mataji: It is very serious, you see, because people don’t understand the seriousness of the position they’re all in. [unclear] But on the whole, what we find that people are taking it as a matter of fact in their life, even the [unclear] becomes sort of a [unclear], but that’s the way you can solve the problem; you must get to the point where we find out the solution. [unclear] [break in recording]

Interviewer: What sort of disease [unclear/it will be?]

Shri Mataji: It could be a disease, could be some sort of virus. Or virus, it’s a virus.

Interviewer: Oh, virus, I’m sorry.

Shri Mataji: Virus disease. 

Interviewer: Right, we will… Can I – well I’ll just put that… another microphone on. [break in recording] 

[dialogue is very hard to hear]

Interviewer: Do You ever have a feeling that there is a virus that couldn’t be contained?

Shri Mataji: I can feel [unclear] that people are more sensitive…

Interviewer:  Do You feel… [unclear] Do you think it is a moral [unclear]?

Shri Mataji: Yes, of course, a kind of a moral because morality [unclear] 

Interviewer: [unclear]

Shri Mataji: Yes it is, because, of course, because, you see, [inaudible] that is why that is the purpose. And I have told doctors to go and find out, [unclear] [another break in recording] 

Interviewer: Shall we walk into it? [the camera shot] I would like to now go through the, what I would call the cool breeze experience. What does that actually mean? What does that signify, when you are feeling the cool breeze?

Shri Mataji: You are actually surrounded by, what we call, the all-pervading Power of God’s love, but people don’t like when I call it that. I would say, is the nature has got a subtler energy within itself, which you can call as all-pervading, which will explain why we have, say vibrations in the matter and why we have vibrations [unclear]but that’s just [unclear]

Now this divine Power, as we call it, exists so you must accept it as a hypothesis [unclear] But we are not aware… 

Interviewer: Yeah, sorry, is this the physical manifestation of the Holy Ghost?

Shri Mataji: Yes it is, of course.

 Interviewer: So these people have felt that?

Shri Mataji: Yes.

Interviewer: Do you believe I could feel it?

Shri Mataji: Of course.

Interviewer: All right, now I understand the right hand is the hand of action, the left hand is the hand of desire.

Shri Mataji: Yes, emotion.

Interviewer: Could You join me in doing that? I know a little bit about it. You hold the left hand like that, just the left?

Shri Mataji: Just you put your left hand towards Me. But if you can take out your shoes to touch the Mother Earth, that would help you.

Interviewer: Why? Oh, it’s important that I take the shoes off.

Shri Mataji: Would be nice for you to touch the Mother Earth, She takes away all the problems. It’s all right, with socks…

Interviewer: Socks is all right

Shri Mataji: As long as you [unclear/touch the earth.]

Interviewer: Now, what should I do next?

Shri Mataji: You see, you are [unclear/feeling an insecurity] [unclear]

Interviewer: I’m a what?

Shri Mataji: You are a very right-sided person.

Interviewer: No, I am just a reporter.

Shri Mataji: Whatever you’ve been in your life, but journalists are always mostly, are right-sided because they’re futuristic, and they’re planning the future… [break in recording]

[Shri Mataji is working on his Agnya]

Interviewer: Who do I forgive?

Shri Mataji: Just in your heart you have to say: I forgive everyone.

Interviewer: Does it matter if I close my eyes or what?

Shri Mataji: No, no, just say that, I forgive everyone.

Interviewer: You want me to say it? 

Shri Mataji: It’s better from your heart.

Interviewer: Just in my heart. [Shri Mataji is holding his right hand and giving vibrations to it]

Shri Mataji: From your heart. You have to say: I forgive everyone. It is a very good power we have got, a very great power. [unclear] Not sense something… 

Interviewer: I’m not feeling it.

Shri Mataji: Too much thinking, also [unclear] Yesterday we had one guy…

Interviewer: But don’t you need to think about it to – you’ve got to think about forgiving everyone?

Shri Mataji: [working on his Agnya] No, you didn’t have to think, this is the idea of some people – it’s better to get ideas to try to think. Because thinking, thinking, you can’t [unclear/relax]

Interviewer: Do you think I’m on my way to insanity by not [unclear/feeling it?]

Shri Mataji: No, no, But over-thinking is not good. But you can’t help it also, you see, till you become the Spirit. The Spirit doesn’t [unclear] Whenever you want, you can think; whenever you don’t want, you stop.

Interviewer: Can You tell me why the cool breeze would come out more out of the head than any other part of the body?

Shri Mataji: I feel it now, now it’s coming out of the head: cold. You are feeling it? You feel something cool coming out?

Interviewer: No.

Shri Mataji: It comes out of the hands also, of the…

Interviewer: Do You feel it?

Shri Mataji: But, in the – now, hands are cool. You still can’t feel it?

Interviewer: No. Would it help if we did the…?

Shri Mataji: No, it’s to do with the right side, [unclear/it will go down,] pressure from the right side. [unclear] You cannot feel it so much because of the nerve, you see. Because it’s all numb now. So it’s there. You are feeling relaxed now? Now watch Me without thinking, watch Me without thinking. Can you do that, otherwise I can’t do it. Can you do that? Can you watch Me? 

Interviewer: I feel the [unclear]

Shri Mataji: [unclear] it can be very confusing. Perhaps you are confusing with the other breeze.

Interviewer: No, I know what you were thinking and I’m aware of the other breeze, the natural breeze, but I don’t feel the other one.

Shri Mataji: You have to do it. I cannot do it because [unclear]

Interviewer: Is it anything to do with being relaxed, the body being relaxed?

Shri Mataji: No, you are actually quite relaxed. You’ve got it now; you got your realisation now. The only thing is, [unclear] when you got realisation, [unclear] because the flow of energy [unclear] it doesn’t go to the side. But when we are not realised, [unclear] which creates imbalance.

Interviewer: You say I’m not feeling it because there is some imbalance there?

Shri Mataji: Chemical imbalance [unclear] because you need both sides [unclear]

Interviewer: [laughing] Have a holiday, do You think?

Shri Mataji: Something like that.

Interviewer: Maybe I need a holiday. 

Shri Mataji: Yes, you need a holiday.

Interviewer [to his colleague]: You listening, boss?

Shri Mataji: You have been working really hard.

Interviewer: That is absolutely true.

Shri Mataji: Too hard.

Interviewer: Too hard

Shri Mataji: Too hard, so then you create an imbalance in your body; one should keep the body in balance. But when you get your realisation, after that [unclear/you open your heart. You don’t…] [break in recording]

Interviewer: I don’t feel it, but…

Shri Mataji: Oh, no, no you should feel it. That’s the point.

Technician: I’m the camera assistant.

Shri Mataji: He is not realised

Interviewer: He is not realised, but… Can you feel it?

Shri Mataji: He has to be a realised soul… [break in recording]  

Interviewer: Well, we’re going to try to find another place, where it’s not raining. And we’ll try to find it…

Shri Mataji: It should work out [still working on his hand] [unclear]

Interviewer: In the meantime, I’m getting very wet…

Yogi: You’d better get it now.

Shri Mataji: Better get it now.

Interviewer: I am trying, I am trying very hard.

Shri Mataji: Don’t try, just leave it. Relax, Relax. Relax. [working on his right hand]

Yogi: It’s the left one

Shri Mataji: Left?

Yogi: The Heart.

Shri Mataji: Have you been to some black magic people?

Interviewer: No, never.

Shri Mataji: Don’t believe in them, at all.

Interviewer: No. Are You finding… is something there?

Shri Mataji: A little bit, I just want to do… to verify. [speaks in Hindi aside. Yogi assists with giving vibrations]

Interviewer: [smiling] So I am a challenge? A bit difficult…

Shri Mataji: No, no, no, it’s an imbalance. [unclear]

Interviewer: How will I have to work to change the balance?

Shri Mataji: After this you will know yourself, after this. [unclear] This transformation takes you, after you will know how to do yourself.