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Interview with Ray Martin on TV Channel Nine (from the original tv broadcast). Australia, 8 May 1987.
I guess Indian gurus have been involved in the West… But there have been others, for more credible and far more respectable.
My next guess is a Bombay lady who’s following this ? over the world. She says that you have the power to deal positively with every problem from common to cancer.
All you have to do is now have a tap into it, a step in that power. Would you please welcome the lady who … mother of Sahaja Yoga Shri Mataji [applause]
I know it’s very difficult for you if someone wants to sum up one religion but is it possible to say what is Sahaja Yoga?
Shri Mataji: Now. Sahaja- saha means with, ja is born with you. This is born with you. Within us is the power which can give us the status of a Spirit. We are not yet the Spirit. We are at a human level. And, in the evolutionary process we have to now, have the breakthrough to become the Spirit. That’s really essential and is absolutely eventually the all possible natural thing that has to happen. It should happen to all of us and the time has come for you to get to that position where you become the Spirit.
All the religions have talked about it and told about it. But people have gone wrong in believing that artificially, if you say that you are baptised or you have become a Brahmin, or you have become a pire [Arabic word for sage] that you have become the Spirit.
It’s not that. It’s a happening that has to take place within ourselves, which is a living process, absolutely living process of the living divine force within ourselves.
Interviewer: How does this-we’ve heard about a lot of Yogas, how does this is different from any other Yogas?
Shri Mataji: Other Yogas have been practiced mostly after getting Realization but as it has come from some half-baked people, it is in a very funny way that people follow it, as if they have to take all the medicines together. And they don’t know any discrimination about it. Unless and until you make this force rises within you, you will not know what type of attention is needed and what type of physical exercise is needed. Indiscriminately people are do physical exercises, getting into troubles.
Interviewer: Now you’re speaking of a force, is it possible to speak about where this force emanate from?
Shri Mataji: This force is a residual power in our triangular bone called as sacrum.
Shri Mataji: Sacrum.
Shri Mataji: Now the sacrum is a word, comes from Greece and that means Greek people knew this was a sacred bone. It rises from there, passes through our six centres, piercing through our fontanel bone area, and you get the cool breeze of the Holy Ghost coming out of our head.
Interviewer: That was Christians have said.
Shri Mataji: Yes. I mean, Holy Ghost, what is the Holy Ghost? Nobody can explain. But Holy Ghost is very simple to understand. This is the reflection of the Holy Ghost within us. Holy Ghost is the desire of God. God Himself watches the working of the desire. And the desire is that we all should become the Spirit. And this desire is reflected in our triangular bone, in three and a half coils. When we-
Interviewer: Is this the central nervous system?
Shri Mataji: No. It is in the triangular bone. It’s this force, it is the fourth force, you see?
Shri Mataji: We have sympathetic nervous system, left and right, and we have got autonomous- that is an autonomous nervous system, and parasympathetic and we have also central nervous system. Now this is the system which is not yet working, it is still in the triangular bone. When it rises, it gives you a new dimension of the Spirit, means the light of the Spirit comes in our attention. In that case, what happens? It’s very simple to understand that at human level we are not in the absolute state, not in the absolute state that’s why there’s a chaos.
Supposing I’m holding a snake in my hand, you see, and there’s no light. Somebody tells me that there’s a snake, I will not throw it away. I would not like to listen to any body’s advise about it. But if there’s a light, I will throw it away. In the same way, when you become the Spirit, the light of the Spirit guides you, you become your own master, you become your own guru, you don’t have to have any guru for that. This piercing of the fontanel bone by the Kundalini gives you the power of the Spirit.
Interviewer: But .. we’ll give you a chance to demonstrate it but you talk about a physical power of Spirit that come out the top of your head.
Shri Mataji: No it’s an energy.
Interviewer: An energy alright.
Shri Mataji: It’s an energy which comes out of your fontanel bone, here, area, touching the Spirit. But the Spirit actually resides in the heart. But the main seat of the heart is here, in the fontanel bone area. And it pierces through, when it pierces through, actually it should pierce, it’s not just I say I’ve baptised you, it’s not like that. It has to pierce through that and you have to feel the cool breeze of the Holy Ghost on top of your head.
Interviewer: Is it there now?
Shri Mataji: Yes it’s there.
Interviewer: Can I feel it?
Shri Mataji: I don’t know if you’ll feel it or not, because you’ll have to have that sensitivity. Now you see, all around also that All-p0ervading Power is there which makes everything vibrate. But this energy can be felt only when you have got that Realization. Then what happens, that all your centres, on your finger tips, become sensitive. And you can feel- this is written in the Koran- that your hands will speak when you’ll get to your resurrection.
Shri Mataji: This is a resurrection.
Interviewer: But Mataji, you must know, you must realize … you must live with the sceptics and the doubters because –
Shri Mataji: Of course, of course, I’m living with them al the time.
Interviewer: Because they come before you.
[Shri Mataji is laughing]
Shri Mataji: Now firstly you see, the great mistake we commit, as far as going to guru or to anything that is religious, is that you cannot pay for God. You see, it’s a living process of a living God.
Now supposing you want to sprout a seed. How much money do you pay to the Mother Earth? It’s a very simple thing but people don’t understand. They think that they can purchase everything.
You cannot purchase God. A simple method if you apply to all of them, they will all run away.
Interviewer: Yes. Now again, I read that the Spirit, this power you speak off can deal with- … cancer?
Shri Mataji: Yes
Interviewer: With AIDS… children being heroin addicts
Shri Mataji: Yes, of course it can, it does.
Because, see, I’ll show you now. This is the [Shri Mataji mimes the sympathetic nervous system] centre, we can say this is the medulla oblongata or we can say this is through with the central channel is passing.
Now the centre is inside here. Now when we are in the imbalance, say we go too much towards the left side, these become too emotional or do all kind of wrong, nonsensical conditioning there. Or if we go too much to the right in ego and all that, you see, then we break this. Once we break this, what happens that the centre becomes constricted and the energy becomes constricted. Slowly it breaks the relationship with the head with the whole, and it becomes malignant. When it becomes malignant it starts overpowering other cells and that’s how cancer is settled.
Now, when the Kundalini rises what she does, she enlightens this centre here, first of all. She builds it back normal then she goes up there pierces through by which she does one great thing is to make you in contact with the All Pervading Power. And once that Power starts flowing through you, you don’t have to worry, you become absolutely peaceful or your troubles are over. Actually, most of the troubles can be over once you are the Spirit.
Interviewer: Alright, but that’s very difficult to understand and … as I am doing now. .. Could you give a demonstration with that audience?
Shri Mataji: Yes, I think I’ll try but it’s a very short time.
Interviewer: Would you like?
Shri Mataji: And they are all in a hurry I think to catch the busses or something [Laughter]
Interviewer: No, no they’ve got time to try.
Shri Mataji: Alright. Let’s see.
Now you just put your hands towards me just like this, and put your right hand on your heart.
And say, with full faith in yourself, that you are the Spirit. That in your heart you have to say: “Mother, I am the Spirit”. Now they call me Mother, or you can call me Shri Mataji.
“I am the Spirit”. Please say it three times, with full confidence in yourself.
Now, put the right hand towards me and see on top of your head if you are getting a cool breeze coming out of your head.
Yes here, yes dear. On top of your head, some people get it that high.
Watch me without thinking, watch me without thinking, put your hand towards me. Right! Right hand towards me.
Right hand towards me and left hand on top of your heads! [Shri Mataji is laughing]
Right hand I’m saying, right hand towards me! You are doing all wrong. Acha! [Shri Mataji is laughing] Now see.
Is it alright? Are you getting the cool breeze in your hand?
Interviewer: Say yes if you are.
Shri Mataji: Yes, yes, yes, I can your eyes, eyes will start glistening, you see, there will be a light in your eyes. Now, are you thinking now? Just watch me without thinking, let’s see, can you do that?
Watch me without thinking, can you do that?
You cannot do that otherwise, you see, so you have gone beyond thoughts.
Now just feel it, are you feeling it in the hands also? Just let’s see.
Interviewer: Raise your hands above if you feel some way
Shri Mataji: Put up all your hands all of those who have felt it. Just both the hands I would like to see. Both the hands.
Interviewer: let me show them, Madame.
Shri Mataji: Yes, so many of them who have got it.
Interviewer: Now we have some of your followers here around the….
Shri Mataji: Yes I see. Who else?
Interviewer: Closer to it.
Shri Mataji: Alright, who else?
Interviewer: Up, up here we had.
Shri Mataji: Those who have felt in the head, just put your hands up. Let’s see.
Supprising, the audience seems to be, yesterday we had one thousand and five hundred people downstairs and about five hundred people upstairs. And most of them got Realization.
Shri Mataji: Yes.
Interviewer: Now, in fact, we should have said that in the past when you did it in Britain and so on University, through radio and television, you’ve told people at home to do the same.
Shri Mataji: No, it’s Hong Kong. I did it in Hong Kong. Not in a- Hong Kong people are very sensitive. They’re very sensitive people in Hong Kong. Perhaps they are in trouble now because they have to go away and all that. May be that is it.
Interviewer: People who are in need are more sensitive, are they?
Shri Mataji: [Shri Matahi is laughing] I’d think so, because they are hankering after God otherwise they think: “We are alright, what to care for God, you see, who is God after all?”
So it happens, but it should happen to so many, I’m surprised they haven’t got it.
Let’s see again how many have got it. Let’s see, put your hands up. Let’s see, just see. There’re reluctant even to put their hand to see, you see.
Now just see it on your head.
Interviewer: I’ve been distracted actually. I’m not a fair test for that cause I’ve been watching things happening in the studio.
Shri Mataji: Yes. That’s it and they are- Are you feeling it? No? None of you? I think there’s something wrong. I can feel the breezes coming from them, I can feel it. Some of them are do feeling it. You see, those who are really feeling it, should not feel ashamed and say “Yes” they are feeling, that’s the best.
Shri Mataji: Now, can you raise your hands now, let’s see. These are all my disciples, I think. [Laughter] Surprising.
Interviewer: Yes, yes.
Shri Mataji: Otherwise, Australians are very good.
Interviewer: Are they? We were receptive, are we?
Shri Mataji: They are the best Sahaja Yogis, they are the best people. They are very innocent and they get their Realization very fast. They stick on to it and they have done wonders, they have done wonders,
Interviewer: I should make a point that I saw one of your advertisement in on of our papers today and you, I think you, there is a meeting tonight at the State Theatre in Sydney but there is no fee charge.
Shri Mataji: Of course not.
Interviewer: You’re not charging.
Shri Mataji: No, no, not at all,
Interviewer: You’re not into rounding up money.
Shri Mataji: No. [Shri Mataji is laughing]
Interviewer: No, I should make, alright, we thank you for your time. You’re staying another week or so in Australia?
Shri Mataji: Yes
Interviewer: You’ve been to other states, and you are now doing Sydney?
Shri Mataji: Yes
Shri Mataji: I’ll be going to Melbourne.
Interviewer: City of Melbourne and New Zealand.
Shri Mataji: And to New Zealand also.
Interviewer: Alright. We thank you. I’m sure if you’d like-
Shri Mataji: Thank you very much.
Interviewer: If you would like to see Mataji, you could check your local newspaper and find where She’s meeting people. Thank you very much indeed. Please thank Her Mataji…
H.H. Holiness Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi