Interview with Ray Martin on TV Channel Nine (from the original tv broadcast). Australia, 8 May 1987.

Interviewer: Welcome back. I guess Indian gurus have been in vogue over recent years in the West –The Beatles introduced us to the Maharishi, the Orange people blindly followed the Bagwan, but there have been others for more credible and far more respectable. My next guest is a Bombay lady whose following is growing around the world. 

She says that you have the power to deal positively with every problem from con men to cancer. All you have to do is know how to tap into it, to tap into that power. Would you please welcome the lady acclaimed as India’s greatest living saint, the Mother of Sahaja Yoga – Shri Mataji. [applause] Welcome. Welcome to Australia. I know it’s very difficult for You, for anyone to sum up one’s religion, but is it possible to say what is Sahaja Yoga?

Shri Mataji: Now, Sahaja- saha means with, ja is born with you. This is born with you. Within us is the power which can give us the status of a Spirit. We are not yet the Spirit. We are at a human level, and in the evolutionary process, we have to now have the breakthrough to become the Spirit. That’s very essential and is absolutely eventually, the all possible natural thing that has to happen. It should happen to all of us and the time has come for you to get to that position where you become the Spirit. All the religions have talked about it and told about it. But people have gone wrong in believing that artificially, if you say that you are baptised or you have become a Brahmin, or you have become a Pir [spiritual guide/saint] that you have become the Spirit. It’s not that. It’s a happening that has to take place within ourselves, which is a living process, absolutely living process of the living Divine force within ourselves.

Interviewer: How does this – we’ve heard of lots of yogas – how does this differ from other Indian yogas? 

Shri Mataji: Other yogas are very practiced, mostly after getting realisation but, as it has come from some half-baked people, it is in a very funny way that people follow it as if they have to take all the medicines together and they don’t know any discrimination about it. Unless and until you make this force rise within you, you will not know what type of attention is needed and what type of physical exercise is needed. Indiscriminately, people do physical exercises, getting into troubles.

Interviewer: Now You speak of the force, is it possible to say – where does this force emanate from? 

Shri Mataji: This force is a residual Power in our triangular bone called as sacrum.

Interviewer: Sacrum? 

Shri Mataji: Sacrum. 

Interviewer: Okay. 

Shri Mataji: Now the sacrum is a word, comes from Greece and that means Greek people knew this was a sacred bone. It rises from there, passes through our six centres, piercing through our fontanel bone area, and you get the cool breeze of the Holy Ghost coming out of our head. 

Interviewer: That’s what Christians refer to, is it? 

Shri Mataji: Yes. I mean, Holy Ghost: what is the Holy Ghost, nobody can explain. But Holy Ghost is very simple to understand. This is the reflection of the Holy Ghost within us. Holy Ghost is the desire of God. God Himself watches the working of the desire. And the desire is that we all should become the Spirit. And this desire is reflected in our triangular bone, in three and a half coils. When it reaches…

Interviewer: Is this the central nervous system? 

Shri Mataji: No. It is in the triangular bone. It’s this force, this is the fourth force within us, you see? 

Interviewer: Okay. 

Shri Mataji: We have sympathetic nervous system, left and right, and we have got autonomous – that is an autonomous nervous system, and parasympathetic and we have also central nervous system. Now this is the system which is not yet working, it is still in the triangular bone. When it rises, it gives you a new dimension of the Spirit, means the light of the Spirit comes in our attention. In that case, what happens? It’s very simple to understand that, at human level we are not in the absolute state: not in the absolute state, that’s why there’s a chaos. Supposing I’m holding a snake in My hand, you see, and there’s no light. Somebody tells Me that there’s a snake, I will not throw it away. I would not like to listen to anybody’s advice about it. But if there’s a light, I’ll throw it away. In the same way, when you become the Spirit, the light of the Spirit guides you, you become your own master, you become your own guru; you don’t have to have any guru for that. This piercing of the fontanel bone by the Kundalini gives you the power of the Spirit. 

Interviewer: But You – we’ll demonstrate it later, or at least we’ll give You a chance to demonstrate later – but You’re talking about a physical power, a Spirit that comes out the top of your head. 

Shri Mataji: No it’s an energy. 

Interviewer: An energy, all right. 

Shri Mataji: It’s an energy which comes out of your fontanel bone, here, area, touching the Spirit. But the Spirit actually resides in the heart. But the main seat of the heart is here, in the fontanel bone area. And it pierces through, when it pierces through – actually it should pierce, it’s not just I say, ‘I baptise you,’ it’s not like that. It has to pierce through that and you have to feel the cool breeze of the Holy Ghost on top of your head. 

Interviewer: Is it there now?

 Shri Mataji: Yes it’s there. 

Interviewer: Can I feel it? 

Shri Mataji: I don’t know if you’ll feel it or not, because you’ll have to have that sensitivity. Now, you see, all around you, also that all-pervading Power is there which makes everything vibrate. But this energy can be felt only when you have got that realisation. Then what happens, that all your centres, on your fingertips, become sensitive. And you can feel – this is written in the Quran – that your hands will speak when you’ll get to your resurrection. 

Interviewer: Yes. 

Shri Mataji: This is a resurrection. 

Interviewer: But Mataji, You must know, You must realise – I mentioned the Maharishi, I mentioned the Bagwan and so on – You must live with the sceptics and the doubters because of those…

Shri Mataji: Of course, of course, I’m living with them all the time. 

Interviewer: The con men who have come before You…

Shri Mataji [laughing]: Now firstly you see, the great mistake we commit, as far as going to gurus or to anything that is religious, is that you cannot pay for God. You see, it’s a living process of a living God. Now supposing you want to sprout a seed. How much money do you pay to the Mother Earth? It’s a very simple thing but people don’t understand. They think that they can purchase everything. You cannot purchase God. A simple method if you apply to all of them, they will all run away.

Interviewer: Yes. Now again, I read that this Spirit, this power You speak of, can deal with – as I said, I mentioned the con men, but can deal with cancer… 

Shri Mataji: Yes. 

Interviewer: Can deal with AIDS. I’ve had some Australians talk about their children being heroin addicts, and taking heroin… with this power.

Shri Mataji: Yes, of course it can, it does. Because, see, I’ll show you now. This is the [Shri Mataji demonstrates with Her hands] centre, we can say this is the medulla oblongata or we can say this is through which the central channel is passing, you see. Now the centre is inside here. Now when we are in the imbalance, say we go too much towards the left side, means we become too emotional or do all kind of wrong, nonsensical conditioning, there. Or if we go too much to the right in ego and all that, you see, then we break this. Once we break this, what happens that the centre becomes constricted and the energy becomes constricted. Slowly it breaks – the relationship with the head from the whole – and  it becomes malignant. When it becomes malignant, it starts overpowering other cells and that’s how cancer sets in. Now, when the Kundalini rises what She does, She enlightens this centre here, first of all. She brings it back normal and then She goes up there, [top of head] pierces through, by which She does one great thing is to make you in contact with the all-pervading Power, and once that Power starts flowing through you, you don’t have to worry, you become absolutely peaceful, all your troubles are over. Actually, most of the troubles can be over once you are the Spirit.

Interviewer: All right. Well that’s very difficult to understand, and understand it cold, as I am doing now. You have offered to give a demonstration with our audience? 

Shri Mataji: Yes, I think I’ll try but it’s a very short time… 

Interviewer: Would you like? 

Shri Mataji: And they are all in a hurry I think, to catch the buses or something. [Laughter]

Interviewer: No, no they’ve got tons of time. 

Shri Mataji: All right. Let’s see. Now you just put your hands towards Me just like this, and put your right hand on your heart. And say, with full faith in yourself, that you are the Spirit. That’s in your heart, you have to say: ‘Mother, I am the Spirit.’ Now they call Me Mother, or you can call Me Shri Mataji. ‘I am the Spirit.’ Please say it three times, with full confidence in yourself. Now, put the right hand towards Me and see on top of your head if you are getting a cool breeze coming out of your head. Here, here, just here. On top of your head, little – some people get it that high. Watch Me without thinking, watch Me without thinking, put your right hand towards Me. Right. Right hand towards Me. Right hand towards Me and left hand on top of your heads! [Shri Mataji is laughing] Right hand I’m saying, right hand towards Me! You are doing all wrong, My child. [Shri Mataji is laughing] Now see. Is it all right? Are you getting the cool breeze in your head? 

Interviewer: Say yes if you are. 

Audience: Yes. 

Shri Mataji: Yes, yes, yes, I can see your eyes are – eyes will start glistening, you see, there will be a light in your eyes. Now, are you thinking now? Just watch Me without thinking, let’s see, can you do that? Watch Me without thinking, can you do that? You can. You cannot do that otherwise, you see, so you have gone beyond thought. Now just feel it, are you feeling it in the hand also? Just let’s see, if you’re feeling in the hands. 

Interviewer: Can we ask… I mean, hands up those who have felt something? 

Shri Mataji: Put up all your hands, all of those who have felt it. On both the hands, I would like to see. Both the hands. 

Interviewer: Don’t be shy. 

Shri Mataji: Yes, so many of them, you have got it. 

Interviewer: Now we have some of Your followers here, aren’t they… 

Shri Mataji: Yes I see. Who else? 

Interviewer: …who are closer to it. 

Shri Mataji: All right, who else? 

Interviewer: Up, up here we had…

Shri Mataji: Those who have felt in the head, just put your hands up. Let’s see. [not many hands go up] Surprising, the audience seems to be… yesterday, we had one thousand, five hundred people downstairs and about five hundred people upstairs. And most of them got realisation. 

Interviewer: Yes. 

Shri Mataji: Yes. 

Interviewer: Now, in fact, we should have said, in the past when You’ve done it in Britain and so on, You’ve actually, through radio and television, You’ve told people at home to do the same. 

Shri Mataji: Mostly in Hong Kong I did it, in Hong Kong. Not in a – Hong Kong people are very sensitive. They’re very sensitive people, Hong Kong. Perhaps they are in trouble now because they have to go away and all that. Maybe that is it. 

Interviewer: People who are in need are more sensitive, are they? 

Shri Mataji [laughing]: I think so, because they then hanker after God, you see, otherwise they think: ‘We are all right, what to care for God, you see, who is God after all?’ So it happens, but it should happen to so many – I am surprised they haven’t got it. Let’s see again, how many have got it. Let’s see, put your hands up. Let’s see, just see. They’re reluctant even to put their hand to see, you see. Now just see it, on your head. [to Interviewer]

Interviewer: I’ve been distracted actually. I’m not a fair test of this, because I’ve been watching things happening around the studio. 

Shri Mataji: Yes. That’s it and they are…  Are you feeling it? No? None of you? I think something wrong. I can feel the breeze is coming from them, I can feel it. Some of them are do feeling it. You see, those who are really feeling it, should not feel ashamed and just say ‘Yes’ they are feeling, that’s the best way. 

Interviewer: Okay. 

Shri Mataji: Now, can you raise your hands now, let’s see. Those are all My disciples, I think. [laughter] Surprising.  

Interviewer: Yes, yes. 

Shri Mataji: Otherwise, Australians are very good. 

Interviewer: Are they? We are very receptive, are we? 

Shri Mataji: They are the best Sahaja Yogis, they are the best people. They are very innocent and they get their realisation very fast. They stick on to it and they have done wonders, they have done wonders.

Interviewer: I should make the point that I saw one of Your advertisement in one of the papers today and You, I think You’re… there is a meeting tonight at the State Theatre in Sydney but there is no fee charge. 

Shri Mataji: Of course not. 

Interviewer: You’re not charging. 

Shri Mataji: No, no, not at all, 

Interviewer: You’re not into rounding up money. 

Shri Mataji [laughing]: No. 

Interviewer: No, I should make, all right, we thank You for Your time. You’re staying another week or so in Australia? 

Shri Mataji: Yes. 

Interviewer: You’ve been to other states, and You are now doing Sydney, with the group?

Shri Mataji: Yes.

Interviewer: You’ve…

Shri Mataji: I’ll be going to Melbourne. 

Interviewer: The city of Melbourne and then to New Zealand. 

Shri Mataji: And to New Zealand also. 

Interviewer: All right. We thank You. I’m sure if you’d like…

Shri Mataji: Thank you very much. 

Interviewer: If you would like to see Mataji, you could check your local newspaper and find where She’s meeting people. Thank you very much indeed. Please thank Her, Mataji… [applause]