Interview with Shri Mataji, Melbourne, Australia, 12-05-1987
Interviewer: Thank you for the invitation. This is an interview with Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi on the 12th of May, 1987. Interview begins 5 seconds from now.
Interviewer: Shri Mataji, we’ve been told that there were three thousand people at your program in Sydney and the hundreds rushed forward after the program to speak to You and to shake You by the hand. This is a very unusual thing in Australia. Why do you think this happened?
Shri Mataji: I think there were not three thousand, maybe less, because the whole didn’t counting many people. But there were quite a lot, about two thousand. And they did rush to thank Me and their eyes were glancing with light and their faces were looking very enlightened and happy, joyous. Because this is the greatest thing that can happen to human beings. In many ages it happens: the rebirth of a person. And they felt the rebirth within themselves. The peace within themselves and the cool breath coming out of their own heads and all that convinced them and that’s why they just came to thank Me. Out of gratitude, I think.
Interviewer: With your respect, Shri Mataji, the world is full of people promising the millennium. One by one they becoming exposed as charlatans, tricks us. How can we know when we have been deluded?
Shri Mataji: I have been telling from 1981, in Australia, I visited four times before; every year openly telling people that: “Be aware of false people”. The first thing to know that you cannot be for your Self-Realisation; nor you can have any course of it. You cannot do anything about it, it is effortless. How can you pay for anything that is the living process? This is a simple thing which people didn’t like that time, because they were following some guru or some false guru. And some of those people who are now exposed came to even hit me with Bible and things like that. All because I was saying that you can’t take money. But that is not the only thing. The person who talks about God should be able to give you the inner knowledge about your roots. As soon as just give you a few words or some mantras, or things like that, he must tell you why he is doing it, what is the purpose of his telling you of some mantras or of some sort of a prayer. If somebody claims something, than he must prove it. Now the first thing that should take place in the modern times is the Realisation. That has been promised that at this time Self-Realisation will take place. And that’s what should happen. Unless and until that happens to you which is also indicated in other scriptures that your hands will speak. In Sahaja Yoga your hands start speaking. They start indicating what is the problem with you, what is the problem of others and also not only that, but you can get yourself cured, you can get other people cured. Beyond that you have your peace, your joy; and so many things after that you feel that you are transformed. Unless and until these things happen to you, why should you believe people who claim that I am this and I am that? See, I just don’t understand.
Interviewer: What you are saying sounds almost evolutionary. It sounds almost that we are on the threshold of some new stage…
Shri Mataji: Yes, of course, that’s the reason is, today that’s the reason that a great evolution, a mass evolution has to take place. You have to break through into a new dimension of your awareness which have be called as thoughtless awareness as Jung has described very clearly. But beyond that is collective consciousness that is you become conscious of others and yourself in the whole like a microcosm becoming conscious of macrocosm. All these things these people don’t even talk; leave alone doing anything about it. But still people run to them, because they think they can purchase them, they can pay for it and this ego keeps them satisfied.
Interviewer: So, the human being is not as complete as we like to think so. Our most ages yet come.
Shri Mataji: Of course, it is not complete. It has to reach the state which is absolute, where the truth is one: where your nervous system should tell whether it is true or not. When you get your Self-Realization from your hands you start feeling a cool breeze flowing, you feel it all around you. Supposing, something is wrong, something is evil, than immediately you know on your hands that it is hot, it is burning, it’s evil; or something is wrong on different centres, than a different, the same finger which denotes that particular area will start burning or indicating that there is something wrong with that person.
Interviewer: This sounds rather like a description of something that happens on these day and age where people talk something having “good vibes” or “bad vibes”. Is this a kind of vibratory awareness?
Shri Mataji: When I went to America first time, in 1973, I talked to them about vibrations and told them there are good and bad. And there was a gentleman who organized My program and he said you must get everything, what you say to that… absolutely certified, what do you say to that, in your…
Interviewer: I am not quite sure…
Shri Mataji: This is like you get a certificate from the government that this is what you have said…
Interviewer: Oh, yes, certified, – it has to be correct.
Shri Mataji: Certified. So, this is your own words and your own things. I laughed at him. I said, “You see, that’s not to be certified. What is the need? Let people use these words ultimately they come to the right thing, because just by talking about it, it’s not going to convince anyone». So, it has to be felt, it has to happen, the experience has to be there. They have to actually feel the bad and the good, clearly, and that is only possible through Sahaja Yoga. I do not want to appropriate everything to Myself, but I know nobody else can do it. If they can do it, it is very good for Me.
Interviewer: So, when a person practices Sahaja Yoga, they actually feel these things?
Shri Mataji: They actually feel everything. They actually feel on central nervous system which is the sign that he has evolved, because whenever there is an evolution you feel it on your central nervous system.
Interviewer: So, are you telling me that a day will come and we can actually tell whether a person is lying or being insincere?
Shri Mataji: Of course, of course, that is nothing. You can even tell if a person has got cancer or he has got liver trouble, or he has got heart trouble. Also you can tell if he is mentally alright or not. Also you can tell if he has been to a wrong guru or he had some spiritual problems from a wrong guru, than immediately tell.
Interviewer: And all this comes from the Self-Realization?
Shri Mataji: Yes, of course, I mean that you become aware of things which you were not aware of before get your Self-Realization.