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Shri Ganesha Puja, Auckland (New Zealand)
… So I turned around and I saw, there is a Shri Ganesha sitting there, nicely! In stone. Not carved, nothing. But in the form of Shri Ganesha. And I was surprised at it, that Shri Ganesha was sitting there. Because, but then Gregoire went and got a photograph of that. it’s very surprising.
Alright. This all because coral is the, you see, stone of your place. Coral. That’s why I wanted to take [UNCLEAR something].
Yogi: Can we give him [UNCLEAR the present for Puja?]
Shri Mataji: no [Mother says “no” about 12 times]. Nothing of the kind. Why to give him present? [Hindi]. Not in Puja. [Hindi]. This is not a Puja present. No. this I’m going to pay for. [UNCLEAR]. [Hindi]. Is a beautiful piece in coral. See this one. Isn’t it nice? It’s very beautifully done.
It’s really beautiful. But no present business.
Yogi: I cannot argue Shri Mataji. [UNCLEAR they have to]
Shri Mataji: Ha? I mean this is, this is not any, particular type of, this is just for the country.
Shri Mataji: Beautiful piece I must say. It’s a very beautiful piece isn’t it? The other way around. come here, [UNCLEAR and] put it. This is the basket.
Shri Mataji: Put the basket upside down. Like Sahaja Yoga is, the starting from the top, bottom. Like that.
Shri Mataji: I saw that in that, even in the glass I saw that! Beautiful.
Yogi: Take another photo.
Shri Mataji: [UNCLEAR]
Shri Mataji: You must get some wonderful pictures. You had some beautiful ones. Rishi was the first to get them. Then now we have many. But, she was the first to hit it you see. It’s very remarkable.
Shri Mataji: So you can wash, with the, that, Ganesha
Shri Mataji: He has got it in English language. [Hindi]. But he’ll have to translate also.
Shri Mataji: Oh sorry. What is there?
Yogi: A Ganesha.
Shri Mataji: it’s just there. We just have a, [Hindi]. Now first, I’ll talk to them for 5 minutes. Then you’ll wash me.
Yogi: [UNCLEAR saying something about amplifier]
Shri Mataji: No, it’s alright.
I think it was, very nice that I could come to New Zealand. You should not feel depressed or unhappy, that the program started with a big bang and then it subsided [UNCLEAR in its coming up] and all that. This is a common thing. Because it is a living process. In every living process, the thing starts with a very small thing. And then it grows, according to the weight, that one can, bear.
You see the little tree, or when it was just a sampling, it had to fight a lot to come up. And when it came up, then also, it would not bear fruits. It would only bear two leaves, you see, to open out. Because the stock was not so powerful to hold, the whole thing. So when your Sahaja Yogis will be more, and ready, then you’ll get more people and more people. But one should not expect too much of quantity. What we need is quality. If you try for quantity, then there would be a problem. Because quantity, the quality will go down. So in the beginning, when it is the foundation, it is very important to have good quality.
As you see in a house, in the foundation we always put, very heavy stones, which can bear the whole structure. In the same way, in the beginning of Sahaja Yoga, we have to put very solid people, to work it out. Unless and until they are of a very solid nature, they’re thrown out. That’s why Christ has said, first could be the last. Because so many people come for the first time, and may just get lost. Because they are no good. They have to bear the structure. They cannot be ordinary Sahaja Yogis.
Now we have many qualities, to, to make it really, very very strong and also, to make it bearing. First of all, a Sahaja Yogi, which is on in the foundation doesn’t show off. He bears, he holds. He is the, actually the Adhara as they say, the support. The complete support of Sahaja Yoga in a country. So the first few, you come to the Sahaja Yoga, are very very important people. And an intensive work has to be done on them. And they have to work out also intensively. Because the first ones, if they are weak, the whole thing topples down. So by some mistake, you see, some weak persons may join you. Then the whole thing will topple down. Again you’ll have to raise it. It’s like another resurrection. Then again you have to see that you don’t have weak people there. Then you have to build them up in such a manner that they grow properly to the size that can bear the whole structure.
Later on, of course, you’ll be surprised, the structure grows very fast. Like in Australia you know we started in a very, very, poor way, to begin with. And the people who really started are out of Sahaja Yoga. Absolutely out. And the rest of them, out of them also, those who were really solid people, could form the foundation of Sahaja Yoga.
So, one has to be careful, as to understand, that what we need now is quality, not the quantity. If you have too many people around your heads, you won’t be able to manage them at all. But if you have few good people you should be thankful. That’s why, if, there is no publicity that has come, or there are small number of people, you should be very satisfied. Not to feel sad about it, that see now, Sahaja Yoga is not spreading. It’s not the spreading that is important now. Is the deeper, embedment, that is important. And for that we need really solid people for Sahaja Yoga.
So, you are the first, few people here, who are going to form the foundation, of New Zealand’s Sahaja Yoga. Maybe one day it might be a very very big structure. Doesn’t matter. Maybe your, you might be, taking a role of a foundation, which doesn’t show off. But your names will be written in golden letters, that such people started Sahaja Yoga. Because it’s a big struggle in the beginning to, implement Sahaja Yoga.
Now I have seen that people, who are false spread very fast. Very fast. You’ll hear their names everywhere, suddenly you see it’s all going everywhere. And you’ll be surprised that they are in the market already. The reason is, that, is not a living process. Is just Plastics. Plastic flower you can produce, in 1 day, thousands. But to produce 1 flower, on a tree, first flower is so difficult. Then few flowers, then the blossom time comes. Is not, that suddenly you get many flowers.
So one has to understand that, in the beginning of anything, there are difficulties, and there are problems. Funny people will come in, they start doubting, they’ll go out. Then some more will come, they will get into it, they will do this, and they’ll get out.
So there are 2 forces always working in Sahaja Yoga: One is the centripetal, another is centrifugal. By one force, people are attracted towards to Sahaja Yoga, because they know it’s the truth. And this is the end of their seeking. And this, they have to have. Because they, find out through their pure intelligence that this is the way.
Now there are people who just try to test, like guru shopping you see. So they think: “let us go this shop is, they don’t charge you anything. Let’s get in here”. but they are the people, who just do not stick-on sometime. Or they have too many problems, from other gurus maybe. Or maybe they may stick-on. And some of them who stick-on, stick-on very well. So, we cannot say, what immediately will happen, in a living process you can’t say this tree, which side it will take? Whether it will go straight or on the sides or it will move the other way. So, it is, you cannot say that way.
But we can say one thing, that, at least from my experience, I feel that in the beginning, whatever starts in a small way, in a struggling way, really is embedding itself nicely, into the Mother Earth. And is a very good sign. Because that’s the way, it always works out better. Whatever is frivolous, or whatever is cheapish, or which spreads out without much difficulties, is of no use. It’s like grass. Anybody can take it away. So the embedment and all that, has to go inside. As you are shaking it nicely to go inside. And that’s what it is. Where, you should be very happy, that it is working out that way.
Somebody has come? Let him come. Come along.
So the, beginning of Sahaja Yoga, may look to be little shaky. May look to be little feeble. But it is not. It is getting stronger and stronger. And it is getting embedded into the Mother Earth. And, that is what, is the test of you being the real seekers. You being the people who want truth. Who do not want a big show, big, sort of a, community sitting there, all going mad with some sort of a shouting, screaming and nonsense.
As it is you know, Sahaja Yoga, is a living process. And, it goes both, grows both, both ways. Upwards and downwards. In the beginning it grows more downwards, and in the downwards process, we have to depend, on our vibrations very much. We must all the time remember, that, we are realized souls. That we have got vibrations. This is the way we have to judge. This is the way we have to understand. The vibration is the only way, that we’ll know others. Not by something, something [UNCLEAR you will] feels that the person looks very sweet and nice and, may a snake come out of that person. So best is, to judge a person, through vibrations. Judge everything through vibrations. Not through your own understanding, or superficial methods of judging others. Now, there are also so many conditionings we have got, by which we judge others. And these conditionings, can also, bias our judgment. So best way is to see the vibrations. Through vibrations, you will have the real knowledge about what is happening.
Now many people, in the beginning, also start misguiding. So best is to develop your vibrations. For that you have to grow inward first of all. If you grow inward, deeply, then what will happen, that outward growth will be very solid, and would be exact. You won’t have any problems with that. But if you do not grow inward, if you do not meditate and pay attention to it, and, I would say, it is more the dedication that you have, that works out so well that you grow upwards so well. I mean you can give a speech whenever you want about Sahaja Yoga, you can give realization to people whenever you want, you can cure people whenever you want. But first, there should be a depth in you. If that you have not achieved, you just start superficially doing something. Then maybe you are hit, or maybe you are in trouble, or maybe you may start doubting yourself, maybe Sahaja Yoga too. So the first thing is for us to grow deeply. And while we are growing deeply, we have to also grow in such a manner that we understand our vibrations clearly.
Now see a root, of a little plant, has a got a very small little cell at the base of it. And the plant, doesn’t know anything, as much as that little cell knows. Because it is going inside, by its own intelligence, its own vibrations. Now if it finds a stone, it doesn’t go and quarrel. So don’t fight with the people who are stonies. Just don’t argue with them. You cannot make them understand. It’s not possible. They have to be seekers and soft, like the soft clay you can say, through which this little cell goes, penetrates. Then it finds, supposing, it finds a big stone. Then what, it goes round and round and round. So gives it a bandhan nicely! And goes down. Later on when it becomes a tree, he uses the stone for its, you see, for its support. So in the same way, you can go round and round and round somebody like that. But, giving just bandhan without saying anything. In your heart. Not saying, arguing with him anything. Because you’ll break your head but he will never be alright. So best is not to argue with him. But just give him bandhan in your heart and somehow or another bind it. So that later on, you see, he will become Sahaja Yogi, but will be a big support to us. Because it’s just a stone you see. Just now, use soft people, people who are easy people, people who are seekers, who are not so complicated.
And, you cannot argue it out. Sahaja Yoga cannot be argued out, cannot be explained to. Only thing you have to get it. And if they don’t get it, you cannot argue it out: “Oh this is this, this is this”. Like, one reporter was asking me: “why is it I’m not getting realization?”. I couldn’t tell him that he was such an egoist. I couldn’t tell him that so I said: “maybe this, maybe that”. you see, I was avoiding the topic! There is no use telling him you are a big egoist. How can you get your realization? Because if I tell him like that, then he would be, just off! Absolutely. And he would be against Sahaja Yoga completely.
So we have to use also, tactfully, a method by which we do not hurt others. But try to be nice and gentle, so they like at least your outer appearance that they are very gentle people, they are very good people and all that.
Now, in Sahaja Yoga also there is a temptation you might have. Because you suddenly get lot of money sometimes, suddenly get a big position. Suddenly, also you might get a very, rare, dynamic gifts. Like you can become great artist, you can become a great poet, you might be, something might happen to you suddenly. You get a public speaking gifts or anything like that. But these are all temptations, and one should not fall into it. Of course you must use them for Sahaja Yoga, is alright. But you should not fall into it and start thinking I’m something great. You see. If that is done, then there is a big problem because, such a thing gets a person completely out of Sahaja Yoga and he gets also punished, in a way. Maybe he loses his powers. So it’s best is, to keep to your Sahaja Yoga meditation. Keep to your own understanding. Know yourself, that is the best way. And not to be diverted by all these temptations. But the same can be used for Sahaja Yoga. If that is used for Sahaja Yoga, there is nothing wrong. Because these gifts are given to you, not to tempt you but, for using for Sahaja Yoga.
For example, she got my photograph with the light on my head. That means there is something happen, between her and the light. Because how did I get that light upon my head is a problem. To be understood, very simply, that the Vishnumaya is the, is the, Goddess for light. For electricity. And if She wants, She can turn it into any angle and can put a subtle meaning to her photograph. Now people have taken photographs of the clouds and they found me there, absolutely there. People believe it or not but it is so. 2 photographs they saw like that. And normally we don’t take photographs of the clouds. But it showed in such a way that, they first saw a very, luminous, cluster of a cloud. And then it expanded and started looking like a Ganesha. So, their attention was attracted. Then, strings of lights started flowing from both the sides. And they found 2 clusters. So they took photos of these 2 clusters and when they developed it, they found my photographs, 2 photographs of mine were there. One was with, even with the nose thing, when I was wearing it, means very latest ones! And another one where I look more like a, Red Indian face. That kind, coming out of the thing. It’s clearly, very clearly you can see. So that’s how they have taken it.
It’s in the Bible, that you will know the Holy Ghost, with the forms of the clouds. Its written down. So this is how it is verified. But how many people are going to believe it? Very few. Very few people are going to believe that this is natural. They’ll think “oh, it’s all made up and done up and all that”. Because even if the nose ring is showing, is too much.
Now this Vishnumaya works that way. There are so many other Deities who work out something in a different way. But whatever it is, they are all for your construction. For your building up as a good Sahaja Yogi.
So the inner movement is very important in Sahaja Yoga. I’m very happy to know that you people are gathering here, for meditation and you’re listening to my tapes and are growing up well, and I was very happy to see the way you are growing. And keep your steady growth. Then you’ll become great Sahaja Yogis. I’m sure one day, New Zealand or Australia, may become the leader, of all the world to, follow, spirituality. Because, India is, of course, I must say India is spiritually very developed but, they are not leaders I think. So far, I have not seen much leaders coming out of India. But, once the leaders start coming out of India, we can say the, then the second position should be given to Australia and New Zealand. There will be great people coming out of Australia and New Zealand. No doubt about it. Because the, the root part maybe in India. The foundation part maybe from India, but the tree part, will be from the west. And that is how the east and west is going to complete the tree of Sahaja Yoga, blossoming and giving fruits.
May God bless you all.
[After the Puja, Soundcloud track, from 1:49:26]
Shri Mataji: So… [UNCLEAR].
Yogi: [UNCLEAR]. A gift from the New Zealand.
Shri Mataji: New Zealand? And the wood is also? Thank you very much! Thank you. Thank you. [Hindi]. Who bought all these things for you?
Yogi: Patricia. Please Patricia.
Yogini: She is cooking!
Yogi: She is cooking your lunch Mother.
Shri Mataji: I see.
Yogi: But she was our representative in India this year.
Shri Mataji: But, with whom did she go? Must be [UNCLEAR]
Yogini: Charles and Mr. [UNCLEAR Pudani]
Shri Mataji: Pune?
Yogini: In Mumbai.
Shri Mataji: Mr?
Yogini: [UNCLEAR Pudani]. Mr Pudani?
Shri Mataji: Pudan?
Yogi: Mr. [UNCLEAR Pudan]
Shri Mataji: I see! Ah this is very nice isn’t it? Very delicate stuff. [UNCLEAR] is another, [Hindi]. [UNCLEAR]. He was saying that there’s going to be Puja. I said I don’t know [UNCLEAR].
Yogi: We, in preparation, [UNCLEAR these] Patricia who bought.
Shri Mataji: Thank you. You went with Pradan to get that?
Yogi: Charles and Mr. Pradan. And the Sari?
Shri Mataji: Sari of course we had one [UNCLEAR]. I bought and kept it [UNCLEAR]. You see they give you a very good one I must say [UNCLEAR]. It’s very beautiful this [UNCLEAR]. Very beautiful sari. Is real, real silver? And real [UNCLEAR gold]? It’s a very good one. The color is beautiful also isn’t it?
Yogi: The blue here is almost the blue here in the [UNCLEAR]
Shri Mataji: [UNCLEAR do you want to select it] and give it to different countries? 14 countries they give. They must have given [UNCLEAER]. It was given in Ganapatipule was there?
Yogini: No in [UNCLEAR]
Yogi: Patricia and 2 Australians bought this in Mumbai just before…
Shri Mataji: You bought it? They didn’t give you?
Shri Mataji: I’m surprised. They were supposed to give. Funny. Maybe they might not have bought for Australians you see. Must be for, but for Australia also they bought.
Yogini: We just bought one for New Zealand.
Shri Mataji: This one was bought, not for Australia. Ah so only you did. They had excluded you from both lists. I don’t know. That’s such a beautiful one! Very beautiful. Better than the Australian! Much better. That’s very good! Because I bought those in a lot, you see, so they came out cheaper. And this one, they must have gone and bought it themselves.
Yogi: Patricia was there, was Patricia [UNCLEAR]
Shri Mataji: Who?
Shri Mataji: Also your luck is good. Get such a nice one [UNCLEAR]. Even if you want, you don’t get what you want! What is the color, of your flag?
Yogi: it’s, well, it’s got a union jack on the corner, and then it’s blue, and it has 4, the 4 starts of the southern cross.
Shri Mataji: Oh I see.
Yogi: So it’s, it’s almost [UNCLEAER]. It almost is. Is that, sort of color.
Shri Mataji: Blue. But union jack is still hanging?
Yogi: Yes, I’m afraid we still have the union jack in the corner. Australia has the same stars but they have 5. Their southern cross is 5 stars. And ours in New Zealand is… HA! Thank you.
Shri Mataji: This is for Puja. Same deep color you have? The red you have, also there. [UNCLEAR]. Very much near the red. So because of commonwealth countries. We are not no more, commonwealth now [UNCLEAR]. We were. We are not no more. We are not, anymore, commonwealth. We used to be. [Hindi]. I don’t know. Are we not yet?
Yogi: We still are Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: We still, we are still. We are commonwealth country, still. But we are not dominion of the.
Yogi: No no. not, It’s no longer and empire, it’s a, it’s a collection of allies and friendly states. There is no sense of domination of one another.
Shri Mataji: So now this is the alliance part. So we don’t have alliance, we don’t have alliance.
Yogi: Perhaps that’s the flag of the heart Mother. Which is on the corner of many flags in the world.
Shri Mataji: [UNCLEAR]. 6 is the Swadhistana.
Yogi: [UNCLEAR] they have 8
Shri Mataji: [Hindi]. Correct. They have done the right thing [UNCLEAR] they are the heart. Unconsciously, they have done you see it but so beautifully.
Yogi: 4, the 4 stars are never seen in the northern hemisphere. It’s a cross of 4 starts or 5 stars that only can be seen in the southern hemisphere.
Shri Mataji: But we saw it. We saw when they got married in Bordi. Yes. All the starts were there, and they saw the southern cross also and all the Australians came and saw that and said the [UNCLEAR same]. This was 2 years back. Or, when did you have the Bodri marriages? 3 years back?
Yogis: 3 years back.
Shri Mataji: 3 years back. And all the starts, there were 28 marriages, 27 marriages and 27 [UCNELAR] [Hindi]?
Shri Mataji: One of them was this. [Hindi]. Talking about the heart. [UNCLEAR this] heart is catching.
Yogi: Mother perhaps let…
Shri Mataji: I don’t know, what’s happening in England. [UNCLEAR] people, is there a news?
Yogi: There are 2 governments.
Shri Mataji: 2 governments now?
Yogi: One, represented by the [UNCLEAR colonel] general. [Hindi]
Shri Mataji: Same fellow the colonel?
Yogi: The colonel.
Shri Mataji: Not the…
Yogi: No not the [UNCLEAR]. But the government general is standing firm, against…
Shri Mataji: So now.
Yogi: He says that he has assumed executive power.
Shri Mataji: How can?
Yogi: And the, New Zealand and Australia are supporting [UNCLEAR].
Shri Mataji: Supporting who?
Yogi: Governor general.
Shri Mataji: Governor general.
Yogi: They say that he is rightful authority.
Shri Mataji: So he doesn’t accept in this, coup?
Yogi: No. In fact, it says, that there are some negotiations going on for a coalition. Compromise!
Shri Mataji: But the people are still at large.
Yogi: They don’t know exactly.
Shri Mataji: No one knows where they are.
Shri Mataji: Funny thing happened.
Yogi: But not often in South Pacific. This is new to the South Pacific.
Shri Mataji: It’s heart. I hope England is alright.
Yogi: Almost all government are supporting the [UNCLEAR governor].
Shri Mataji: I mean it’s very, unconstitutional.
Yogi: He’s the representative of the Queen.
Shri Mataji: But the, as the Rustom has said that, there are many incarnations of people. Like according to him, the, [UNCLEAR] were, must have been camels! According to him, the, Parsis must have been hawks! Because the hawks you see, go and eat the dead bodies. Now, according to him, now, the English must have been dog, what? Dogs or horses?
Shri Mataji: Horses. They must have been horses! But the Indians must have been cows! So they tolerate a lot of nonsense. Tolerance, Indian tolerance is something really shameful. Sometimes really get angry the way they tolerate. Like you see, English stayed in our country for 300 years [UNCLEAR]. These people, who are not immigrants, they went with the English to the south of [UNCLEAR] places. [UNCLEAR] they had British passport for the last 3-4 generations [UNCLEAR you see]. And now once these countries became free, they had to go to England because they had no other passport. So they are still treated as immigrants. Imagine. And they had, they don’t mind. Because now they say that we, we cannot go to India, because we have no Indian passport. We have lived in, why did we live our country? So we should suffer. This is their solution [UNCLEAR]. Indians say that [UNCLEAR way], if we had not left our country, and had not gone to these countries out of just greed, because they said we’ll make you farmers, and this. They just took them like slaves, but they told lies, you see that time. And these people went there. And, when they went there, they, they developed, you see, everything very well, because, they are very good farmers. Indians are very good farmers. So they developed the farms and everything. And the Africans didn’t know farming. [UNCLEAR There’re] very few English there, to do farming. So because of that then, and also they had to have passports so they had, British passports. Because passports not were needed in the long, in the olden times. Just [UNCLEAR]. So they were given passport, when it came to the passports. The British gave them the passports. So they have been living there for ages now, so they had to go to England. Now, when they have used them all these years, still, they are immigrants. Anywhere, you see, it is something. Even in France they say that Indians, are absolutely go on, pressing them hard, anything, they go on taking your pressures. So this is what it is. Then they have to pay for it also. [UNCLEAR] have to pay extra. Even my husband said so. Imagine. He said now we bought land, and they always trouble in India, for land. All these, collectors and all that. So you have you spend some money on them. Otherwise won’t workout. I said did you do the same thing? He said our times were different but [UNCLEAR nowadays]. You have to shell out some money to them. Nobody asked nay money to me. What am I to do? He says the same thing, my brother [UNCLEAR].
Yogi: If you get so many cases [UNCLEAR]. So many cases 50%…
Shri Mataji: And these are all, you see, these are all the things they have learnt, under the British rule, you see. And now they are still continuing. These are Indians or British?
Yogi: Anti-corruption people need, another anti-corruption department for them!
Shri Mataji: [UNCLEAR] this kind of tolerance is not good you see. In England if it happens [UNCLEAR] anyone, they’ll have to resign.
Yogi: Yes. That’s right. Even in America I’m told [UNCLEAR]
Shri Mataji: Smallest thing…
Yogi: Still Matters. They are very strict on these things.
Shri Mataji: On these things. See, England is that way. You see, thought, we have, they came in our country and they were different. But in their own country, [UNCLEAR even there, them], you see this, Hastings. Wasn’t he?
Shri Mataji: Yeah, Warren Hastings. He was trialed and he was arrested. He was [UNCLEAR].
Yogi: Impeached in parliament. Also Clive they did it to him.
Shri Mataji: Clive also. Whatever they did here. Just imagine. I mean, so the people are not tolerant that, they don’t tolerate any, illegal things. That’s something good. People don’t tolerate. In India people tolerate. And these collectors and all that then they become very powerful.
Yogi: Second set of rajas and maharajas.
Shri Mataji: Second set of rajas and maharajas. And they are public servants. They are servants of the public. But they are so rude and. Corruption rules. To pacify them, people must give them money. Just to pacify them. And they’ll never be trialed like Clive and Hastings.
Yogi: Sometimes the lower ones are trialed.
Shri Mataji: Ha? Lower ones.
Yogi: Lower ones. The law is so [UNCLEAR defective]. It’s very difficult to.
Shri Mataji: Very defective.
Yogi: It’s very difficult to span the conviction.
Shri Mataji: [Hindi]. You see, the trouble is, now, if you, if you put a case on a higher boss, he will tell the younger [UNCLEAR], the lower one, that you take the blame. He’ll take it. Taking the blame upon yourself is also one of the qualities of Indians. Might be somebody else’s, but they’ll say I have done it. Alright. Sort of a martyrdom. If the public doesn’t do all that nonsense, I’m sure corruption will [UNCLEAR go away]. They’ll not stand [UNCLEAR on it].
Yogi: Left sided thing.
Shri Mataji: I think they are still under slavery. They’re frightened of these people I think.
Yogi: Feudal. Feudal. Feudal oppression.
Shri Mataji: People get frightened. In the villages and all that, an ordinary, [UNCLEAR sum] inspector can rule.
Yogi: The king of the place.
Shri Mataji: He is the king. [UNCLEAR sum] inspector. And the collector is Bhagwan! He’s God! [UNCLEAR] these, they must be corrected. [UNCLEAR] from very good families and things like that. Also, if there’s a boy, selected for Indian administrative service, which ultimately they become collector, he charges such a lot of dowry. He charges a dowry of laks and laks.
Yogi: His price increases.
Shri Mataji: Ha?
Yogi: His price in the.
Shri Mataji: Increases.
Yogi: In the marriage map market increases.
Shri Mataji: And, on the slightest protest they send away the girl.
Yogi: Or Kill her sometimes.
Shri Mataji: Ha?
Yogi: Or kill her. The bride.
Shri Mataji: They are burnt.
Shri Mataji: Burnt. So when she was telling yesterday, I had to tell her that this is coming from this corruption.
Yogi: That’s all, all the on the left side. Corruption and self-destruction.
Shri Mataji: Look, the corruption is right sided, and it pushes people to the left. And they are little bit frightened you know. Anybody coming to them, a police means too much. What to do to these people also… individually they are very weak [UNCLEAR], must say, individually. And when they combine also, then politics start brewing up. When these all weak people combine, and form an organization or something, then there is 3-4 powerful people. And they start politics. Who will be the president, who will be this, who will be that. So that’s finished. Basically, Indians must have, their own power. That’s important. This vegetarianism, also is a responsible. If you are a vegetarian, you don’t have much power to fight you see, courage to fight.
Yogi: They can pull, each other’s legs.
Shri Mataji: Pull, all the time, each other’s legs. That’s their job. That’s the only thing, all sly things they will do.
Yogi: There is a story about it. An exhibition in New York, from India they sent crabs as exhibits. International exhibition.
Shri Matai: [Hindi]
Yogi: Crabs. And, in an open vessel. And the people who were responsible for the exhibition, they got a little scared. That the, these open crabs, they come out of the vessel, people who come may be scared. Don’t worry they are Indian crabs. If one climbs the other will pull his leg.
Shri Mataji: [UNCLEAR]. All sly things they will do. They’ll cheat you in a small way, this, that, tell lies morning till evening. There are some people, who must tell, 100 lies. Otherwise their mantras are not complete. You see, lies come out of fear also.
Yogi: Yes, Shri Mataji
Shri Mataji: You see, if you are frightened, then you have this lying business. If you are, not frightened, you don’t tell lies.
Yogi: Yes. What happens in these countries Shri Mataji, you get two counties. One dominating the others.
Shri Mataji: But, you see, what we have got, very few people dominating. These all these, administrative people and all that they are dominating.
Yogi: And business men [UNCLEAR]
Shri Mataji: Business men or, very few. The rest of them are such a big, public. I mean, such a big community, that they can always oust these people.
Yogi: that’s’ true Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: But they are so frightened of these few Johnny’s!
Yogi: And in our country we have a law at least.
Shri Mataji: We have a law but you see, they don’t even know the law.
Shri Mataji: This is such a complicated law that you have to be a lawyer. Actually, I didn’t know the laws. My brother had to tell me that you are alright. You’ve done no wrong! You just become a criminal in that country for doing nothing wrong.
Yogi: For just sitting down Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: I mean, just because you don’t know particular things, you know. And he told me these things, I’m surprised how was, how much I am in the law! On the contrary he said you took too much care for law. That’s why you are in trouble.
Yogi: If the police are harassing someone and taking a person to jail. And you, know that he’s been harassed, and now suddenly [UNCLEAR] taken to the jail, and you interfere, they take you also. [Hindi]. Even our lawyer said, why don’t you give about 1000 Rupees to this collector? [UNCLEAR] To the collector?!
Shri Mataji: Even, even the thing. Ah no, not at all. Now we have got all this land you see, in India. Now we have to [UNCLEAR] make it non-agriculture. Non-agriculture. For that you have to go to the collectors. Now I’m told take money in laks and laks of Rupees now. [UNCLEAR Where do we have?]
Yogi: Are those plans, moving forward Mother? For the Sahaj…
Shri Mataji: You see, that’s the main thing is the obstruction now. The land we have got. We have got it on the, what you call? [Hindi] registration.
Yogi: Recorded. Recorded in [UNCLEAR] records.
Shri Mataji: [UNCLEAR] everything is there. And, now we have also got plans and everything. But it has to made NA, that is Non-Agricultural. Now if you go approach them in, somebody there, I don’t know who is the collector. Whosoever is the collector, they say that you’ll have to give about 10 laks of Rupees or 12 laks of. Just imagine, where do we have so much money to waste. Otherwise the, papers won’t move for years together. There are some fishermen and women who are realized now. They have got a land in Mumbai. For the last 12 years, they have not been given that land. Just the allotment. [UNCLEAR] is a non-agricultural thing. So we have to go and for NA. Now the new law has come, is just to help these collectors to collect money. That you cannot build anything near the Pune city, about 8 Kilometers, without talking the permission of the collector. Make it any. Now the collector will take lot of money out of this. And, also just to prove the case, in my case specially, they published in a very responsible newspaper that, this house, this building, this land was bought, much later, and was built now, I mean after the law has passed is all wrong. And that, this is for the Sahaja Yogis who are coming from abroad. I mean imagine.
Yogi: An Ashram. An Ashram for Sahaja Yogis.
Shri Mataji: Such liars. Such liars they are. I mean it’s my husband’s hard earned money coming from bank to bank. And then, to say that it is meant for Sahaja Yogis. So because it is meant for Sahaja Yogis, is you have to make it non-agriculture. That’s the trick. For that you have to go to the collector. But this land cannot be made non-agriculture because it’s called as the green belt. Such corruption. For a little piece of land who is going to give 10 laks and 12 laks? Alright, now supposing you decide, we’ll not give 10-12 laks to the collector. We’ll take a built flat. So in the flat, supposing the building cost is 40 Rupees per square foot, they charge you 300 Rupees per square foot. The builders. So the builder and the collectors are hand [UNCLEAR]. I think one should write a, nice novel on this.
Yogi: Satire. Satire, play we should write. Novel, yes Shri Mataji. Collector is a good name, to settle, collect all the bribes Shri Mataji!
Shri Mataji: I don’t know. You see at my husband’s time, of course, they were all, people with some sort of a…
Shri Mataji: Crack in their heads. They would work [UNCLEAR], day in and day out. And, never can think of taking any bribe. I mean no question. And they caught so many people who were taking bribes. So now, we should put the collectors in charge of, people who are taking bribes you see. [UNCLEAR there is] this income tax person, who sees that. [UNCLEAR] tax fellow, he says that, if you catch somebody red-handed, then we’ll go after him. We should ask them how many people these collectors have caught, taking bribes.
Yogi: There’ll be non I think.
Shri Mataji: You sure?
Shri Mataji: That’s the best way to remove the corruption. We can cannot give bribes and you cannot take bribes. Is illegal. And these collectors are supposed to find out.
Yogi: But he finds out so that he takes bribe from the people he has found out Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: You see, he cannot. Because once he starts doing that then the people who are giving bribe will catch him, by the neck. You have to be very honest to do that. It’s terrible! That’s such a bad disease I tell you. I don’t know when our country is going to get over it. And what do they need bribe for? I just don’t know. I mean, there’s sufficient money. They get, nowadays, in our times the pay was much less than now, nowadays. They get a big pension, everything. But there is no end to greed.
Yogi: No. Want to buy a house here, build a house there.
Shri Mataji: What do they want to do for [UNCLEAR you]? Nothing. They don’t want to live with their children. Most of these collectors they are very westernized. Want to have their own hose. For that a little house is alright. They also get a loan from the government for building a house. We built such a big house with the loan in the government, from the government only that time. Yes. The first house I built, with the load from the government. And [UNCLEAR] also gives note. I mean this, it’s possible [UNCLEAR] build a house. There is no need for them to be dishonest, actually.
Yogi: It is a way of, giving trouble to the simple people Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: Ha?
Yogi: It is a way of giving trouble to, to simple people.
Shri Mataji: [UNCLEAR] you have to many simple people.
Shri Mataji: [UNCLEAR]. You see, they are all rakshasas. Nothing [UNCLEAR]
Yogi: that’s right. They are all rakshasas.
Shri Mataji: Feet are so white. [Hindi]. Maybe, Chakras are so white. Vibrations are all flowing. Left Agnya [Hindi]. You see there is too much then, [Hindi]. White like snow!
Yogi: Shall I lift this up? Put it behind?
Shri Matai: So the Himalayas go to my feet! What to do! Take out this one [UNCLEAR]. Keep it for next time, alright? All these things. Kept the Magala Sutra also? What a beautiful Shawl they have given me as a present!
Yogi: It’s beautiful thing.
Shri Matai: That’s a beautiful thing!
Yogi: You were looking for one like this yesterday.
Shri Mataji: Yes, I was looking one, for one like this! From Australia I [UNCLEAR bought] two. But that’s rather too big. This is very nice.
Yogi: Would you like [UNCLEAR] feet wash?
Shri Mataji: Ha?
Yogi: Shall we wash your feet or [Hindi]?
Shri Mataji: [Hindi]. In that water, same water.
Yogi: That we can [UNCLEAR]
Shri Mataji: It’s better to wash it. Then you have not touched that water.
Yogi: No, they can drink it, they can…
Shri Mataji: No, then you keep it. No, not for drinking. You can use it but, more for vibrations. You can take that out and we’ll have another one. No no. you can take that water into something and preserve it. Some glass is better.
Yogi: There is glass…
Shri Mataji: [UNCLEAR] it’s beautiful. Heart is now better.
Yogi: Much better Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: Much better. It, so much was catching.
Yogi: Can you pass me the jug?
Shri Mataji: [UNCLEAR these flowers]. [Hindi].
Yogis talking: Have you got some water? Is water coming is it? And soap. And soap.
Shri Mataji: There must have been some very great artist [UNCLEAR]. This is, might be an old piece. Could be. It might have been some artist living here [UNCEAR]. Maybe.
Yogi: Lot of craft people in New Zealand. And becoming more and more, traditional.
Shri Mataji: Traditional yes.
Yogi: More and more…
Shri Mataji: They should be traditional not, taking to, you see. Alright some people can have, like, I like that bark of the thing they had taken out and covered, it was nice idea from the palm tree. That was a nice idea and many things. But, like the one we saw, which was carved wooden piece. Yes, that one was very expensive. In India you can get it much cheaper, much cheaper.
Yogi: Very very expensive. I don’t understand why.
Shri Mataji: And done more traditionally.
Yogi: But [UNCLEAR] very fine…
Shri Mataji: Very fine…
Yogi: Pottery and fine china being made here now.
Shri Mataji: china?
Yogi: Very beautiful.
Shri Mataji: Ah Saw some china yes it’s very beautiful. But didn’t find any set or something. I did find some good china, yes. Made with had. Like my cup and my that thing, yes. That’s beautiful. But I don’t know where they picked it up? Because I’ve never seen this anywhere else. That kind of china, anywhere else but in here. [UNCLEAR]. [UNCLEAR]. [Hindi]. There’s a latch. Is that Chinese? It looks like. The work is beautiful. You see, show to everyone. It’s very delicate work. In [UNCLEAR], that is in one coral. [Hindi].
Yogi: This one…
Shri Mataji: [UNCLEAR]. [Hindi]. Vishudhis are very bad.
Yogi: [UNCLEAR] all became black.
Shri Mataji: Just imagine, the whole thing’s become black.
Yogi: The moment I touched, became… It’s good thing, it’s come out now Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: Black has come out. Got it. [Hindi]
Yogi: It’s right. Right Vishudhi.
Shri Mataji: Right Vishudhi is too much. People talk here too much [UNCLEAR]. its right left both. [Hindi]. The nerve. Nerve that goes to the left Vishudhi [UNCLEAR] backwards. [UNCLEAR]
Yogi: This one.
Shri Mataji: Water little warm, water would be better I think. Little warm. And bring it from the bathroom. And when she wears sari she really looks an Indian so we must find out this Mauri people in India! Isn’t it a piece of art? [UNCLEAR]. It has vibrations that’s the main thing. Any piece of art has vibrations. It’s such a balanced piece. [Hindi]. Which one is this?
Yogi: [UNCLEAR Picasso]
Shi Mataji: Imagine what a warm day today! That lady asked me: have you got something to do with this warm day? I said maybe. I didn’t know that… [UNCLEAR] ah good. [UNCLEAR]. Was less now? [Hindi].
Yogi: Should we put some salt in it? Mother? Get some salt? Some more water. Warm thank you.
Shri Mataji: So many miracles take place with these ornaments also. It so happened that, these people had collected some money to buy, a Mangalsutra for me. Oh God. I said what sort of Mangalsutra you want? He said, of diamonds you see. Is very expensive. So I said, Now, I’ve got one why do want to have another one? Of diamonds? [UNCLEAR]. No no no Mother Diamonds… [UNCLEAR] went to the shop; the price is so high. So they [UNCLEAR] they said now what to do? I said now you buy one, which doesn’t have diamonds, but corals. Because after all, you are from the coral’s country. So, they wanted to buy the coral one. Now, when we, said alright buy this coral thing. Suddenly I found a beautiful one with corals. So they bought but it was very cheap. So now what to do the money was left out. So then, I suddenly found a beautiful coral design thing, with little little roses [UNCLEAR] the necklace and [UNCLEAR]. And, for the same price as that was left [UNCLEAR]. So I said then buy this is alright now if you want to complete the whole money. They were surprised, they got such a beautiful piece. And the, shopkeeper said that this was bought by some lady in Italy, but we couldn’t sell it. In India nobody bought this one and is still lying with us for some time. We didn’t know why it was not selling so now, [UNCLEAR] are buying it. So they give us for a, exact price. So we bought that. now, you see, I brought it to Australia, because they were going to do the Puja of Ganesha so I said alright. This is a Ganesha’s country and this is alright so brought it here. And they gave it to me in a Puja. But it was lost. We don’t know where we placed it. Nobody could locate it where it is gone and when I went, it was not with me. I said alright, find it out later on. You can send it to England. So they found it. They found it, and they sent it with somebody who came to Rome first, for the Puja. On the Sahastrara, on the Ganesha Puja day. The Ganesha Puja was not here. Ganesha Puja was there, you see. So she came to Rome for the Puja. And then she brought this. So I said the artist who must have made it you see, long time back. Must have thought that it should be given to somebody like me. And that, it should be on a Ganesha Puja. So it came to Rome! Imagine of all the places. It is made in Rome. How at the right time it came [UNCLEAR to Rome]? I was surprised, and everybody was surprised. How it has come all the way, for Rome. And its Italian work. Absolutely Italian work. So how things work out you see. And they suggest so many things. They’re so surprised Italians. Mother how do You get this, how did You get this one in Australia? I said this I bought in, India for your information! And then I [UNCLEAR]. And they gave me as present. And it was lost. So now it has come to Rome. I had never worn it. Just imagine. It’s very very surprising how things work out. These, little little things. [Hindi]. Left Vishudhi is too much in this country. I don’t know why they feel so guilty. What are they guilty about? What is, what wrong have they done? They have never invaded any country, did they?
Yogi: It’s a, on one level it’s a divided country Mother, in racial terms. There are barriers of a sort, between Pākehā and Maori and Islander.
Shri Mataji: They killed them?
Yogi: Well, there were wars of course. In the past there were many wars. And the Pākehā had the, they’re now called land wars. There were actually wars. And British regiments. Regiments of British soldiers were brought here in the 1860s to fight the Maoris who wanted to retain their land basically. And laws were setup to make it very easy for the Pākehā to take land. Now that has been a thorn in the flesh of Maori for over 100 years now and there is a treaty, treaty of Waitangi signed which was supposed to be a treaty of friendship between Queen Victoria as the representative of the Pākehā and the Maori chieftains. And this was to be a mutually responsible, that the Pākehā would look after the broader issues if you like and would be responsible to Maori people for peace and for welfare and so on. Well it never worked out that way. And now quiet often see written [UNCLEAR] the treaty is a sham or Waitangi betrayed or. So even now 147 years after the signing of it, it still something of acrimony and, a contribution to distrust and guilt. There is quite a lot of guilt in the Pākehā and the Maori is building it up.
Shri Mataji: No, but what about the people who settle down here? Are they more in number or the Maori?
Yogi: The Pākehā greatly outnumber the Maori. Greatly.
Shri Mataji: Pākehās are what?
Yogi: The whites.
Shri Mataji: Pākehās are the white.
Yogi: And there are…
Shri Mataji: Maori are greater in number.
Yogi: No. Whites.
Shri Mataji: So this has happened?
Yogi: Yes. There was a. The Maori was being traditionally very closely connected to the land. A land has always had a spiritual significance. They felt a sense of belonging and being part of the land. The land is almost like a member of the family.
Shri Mataji: Earthly Mother.
Yogi: Very very close relationshop. So when hey were dispossessed, when the land was taken by force, there was a sense of.
Shri Mataji: Insecurity.
Yogi: Failure, Yes insecurity. A sense of loss. Which has really only now, nearly 150 years later, started to develop back again into some degree of pride and dignity and. An attempt at a universal poise and [UNCLEAR] honesty. So there is lot of guilt on that level. Also.
Shri Mataji: Pākehās also have.
Yogi: Ah! Pākehās yes. More so than Maori. But a very complex one amongst the older Maoris. There is a sense of guilt in the sense of, why didn’t we start battling earlier?
Shri Mataji: [UNCLEAR to fight back]
Yogi: And so on the younger people it’s arrogance because they’re all this, it’s, the biggest population. The prison population for instance, the inmates of prison, the Maoris vastly outnumber the whites. The people who come up before the courts and so on. The unemployed, there is greater, a much greater percentage of Maori, amongst the unemployed. So this causes also dissatisfaction and sense of inadequacy and guilt. So both sides have a sense of…
Shri Matai: Guilt.
Shri Mataji: Now, these people when they came, into New Zealand, did they came in the beginning, did they come as punishments or New Zealand also, not only to Australia. I mean when the English came.
Yogi: No, no there were no convicts sent to New Zealand at all.
Shri Mataji: So who were the people who were sent so many more than the, Maori who was here?!
Yogi: Well, the original people who settled here where people who were sailors and whalers. They had their ships here in the harbor and they would go out and kill whales and seals, melt it down for oil [UNCLEAR].
Shri Mataji: Oh I see.
Yogi: They were the first. Pretty rough mob. Then there were various groups who arrived in various ways. There was a man called Edward Gibbon Wakefield who actually eloped with a girl who was underage, [UNCLEAR]
Shri Mataji: Horrible.
Yogi: He was in prison and so on. But he was responsible for two of the main settlements here in New Zealand. One in Wellington and one is Christchurch. And attempted a planned immigration. So there would be people with money, there would be people with professional talents, there would be people who are experienced in working the land, there would be carpenters, there would be… and so you brought here a whole society ready to serve each other on the land. In Wellington it didn’t work at all. But in Christchurch it worked better. Those are the 2 first main planned immigration.
Shri Mataji: But how? [UNCLEAR why?]. He was in the government that [UNCLEAR].
Yogi: No, it was private. It was done just with private money. You know, like, people paid for it.
Shri Mataji: [Hindi].
Yogi: It was a profit making concern.
Shri Mataji: Only?
Yogi: It’s a privately mounted concern. People invested in it.
Shri Mataji: But why did they come here? The professionals and all that.
Yogi: To start a new life. I think there would be many reasons Mother. And one of the main contributions was married couples with children where the husband or wife married out of their class. Some, if they married for love rather than. So there was a you know like…
Shri Mataji: [UNCLEAR]. lords and ladies ha.
Yogi: And they weren’t very happy primarily in England and so they came to New Zealand to start a new life. There were a lot of families like that. So there’s always been a strong desire in New Zealand to be egalitarian. Jack’s is good as his master is a.
Shri Mataji: Ha?
Yogi: Jack is as good as his master.
Shri Mataji: Master, I see.
Yogi: Is a strong belief.
Shri Mataji: But England is becoming like that now. I mean at least the language. The language has become so, different I mean. I don’t know. Even the lords and ladies have very bad language. I mean the way the speak, it’s slangy, full of [UNCLEAR] and things like that. I mean, you just don’t understand how they speak. I just don’t understand. The language is very much ruined now. I mean nobody studies language nowadays, in England. [Hindi].
Yogi: Worse than that, if you properly they make fun of you, Mother.
Shri Mataji: That’s what they were telling me. If you speak properly they think you are being, trying to show off. Ha? That you are class, thing.
Shri Mataji: Porsche. Porsche is a, is an abuse there. To me it’s a big problem! You see. These French girls told me that, they learnt English through my, tapes. I’m amazed, because you see, I don’t know how to speak to English themselves nowadays! In Sahaja Yoga they are not speaking like that. Sahaja Yogis don’t [UNCLEARE] English Sahaja Yogis. But as soon as you go out on a shop or anything, specially you are in Oxford, I didn’t know what to do [Hindi]. This Puja is on and on! Alright. So. It’s like… [Hindi]. But it’s not real one. Not such a good one.
Shri Mataji: I’ve had. I’m not supposed to eat sweets. [Hindi]. This is very nice. This is made from what?
Shri Mataji: Hum?
Yogi: Margaret made it.
Shri Mataji: From what?
Yogini: Apricots and…
Shri Mataji: Apricot?
Yogini: And nuts and…
Shri Mataji: In India apricots are so expensive, you can’t use them like this. [UNCLEAR]. From raw or the dry ones?
Yogini: Raw ones. Dry ones.
Shri Mataji: Raw ones.
Yogini: Dried ones, dried ones.
Shri Mataji: [Hindi]. Wonderful. We too make somethings, out of this, in India. Dried [UNCLEAR]. [UNCLEAR] quiet expensive, in India. All nuts are expensive in India. Like almonds.
Yogi: They are expensive here too Mother.
Shri Mataji: Here too?
Shri Mataji: Apricots are expensive here?
Yogini: The dried ones. Yes.
Shri Mataji: Are they? But apricots you get quite a lot.
Yogini: Fresh apricots are fine but [UNCLEAR].
Yogini: They do.
Shri Mataji: Why dry one so expensive?
Yogini: This, is this one? Yeah, the Australian and Turkish ones are expensive.
Shri Mataji: Australians have lots of apricots.
Shri Mataji: Beautiful shawl. [UNCLEAR]. Such a thing I wanted. Thank you. [UNCLEAR thank you very much]. Nice Puja. [Hindi]