Interview on Aids, Australia, 18 May 1987.
Shri Mataji: You see, because I try to know so much about religions.
Shri Mataji: Because I’m dealing with all kinds of religious people, first of all.
Journalist: With- yes.
Shri Mataji: And then, you see, within ourselves, it’s – there is a religion, a human religion.
Shri Mataji: That is actually our valency, it’s our valency.
Journalist: Our wellbeing?
Shri Mataji: Valency is a thing, like the carbon has four valencies, we have also ten valencies within ourselves.
Journalist: I don’t know this word.
Shri Mataji: Valency is a word of chemical, chemistry, valency, v-a-l-e-n-c-y. Valency.
Journalist: And is it something new going, an expression?
Shri Mataji: Well it is within us, you see, this ten qualities a human being has.
Journalist: We have ten valencies.
Shri Mataji: Ten valences. And once we are missing in that, then we are missing in our personality.
Journalist: And it seems that you have all sorts of relationship with people’s psyche and the problems they have, but we will always say there are psychosomatic.
Shri Mataji: Yes. Psychosomatic diseases or human physical diseases all are because we are very much going into extremes, you see. So there are imbalances in our character.
Journalist: Given that you are living in London it must be odd of you- I mean [unclear] not even from your own bags.
Shri Mataji: Well, it started in India, I shouldn’t say that.
Journalist: You did!
Shri Mataji: It first started first. First, first twelve Sahaja Yogis were from India.
Journalist: The first twelve
Shri Mataji: Sahaja Yogis. They are called as Sahaja Yogis – Yogis
Journalist: Oh, yes, right. You’re the founder of the-
Shri Mataji: Yes, I’m the founder as you said.
Journalist: And was it nineteen seventy?
Shri Mataji: Yes.
Journalist: And I believe Australia now is the first growing?
Shri Mataji: Yes, it is, it’s something really remarkable I tell you.
Journalist: And this must go like this the last six or seven years.
Shri Mataji: Yes. Suddenly, you see, I think Australians have a quality of innocence in them
Shri Mataji: They have.
Journalist: And you [unclear] to the fact that it is the first “chakel” of Sahaja Yoga- you call it the “chakel”?
Sahaja Yogi: Chakra.
Shri Mataji: Chakra, yes. And first chakra is Australia and New Zealand, yes, first chakra of innocence.
Journalist: Ok, which makes us more –
Shri Mataji: Innocent, yes. You are innocent people. Calibre also because of innocence – calibre. But you are very innocent and – But you understand innocence and you respect innocence also, I think.
Journalist: And obviously, you had a time with the background Rajneshes and you totally discredit him. Does that make difficult, does that make people more resistant to listen to you or? I believe you denounced him.
Shri Mataji: Absolutely, all of them. I ‘ve denounce all of them, openly.
Journalist: All of them.
Shri Mataji: With their name. [Shri Mataji is laughing]
Journalist: Yes, Yes…
Shri Mataji: You see this is a- you see, what are they here for? That’s the main point is, you see? They are just there for making money, that’s all.
[Cut in the video]
Shri Mataji: The incredible part of this is that you get the experience yourself.
Shri Mataji: You certify yourself. the other day we were in New Zealand. And we had lots of people, the whole hall was filled. Some were sitting even on the ground. And when they got their Realization they said: “It was like a” – what‘d you say to the, when you open the bottle of Champagne? Booze, booze, “It came out like a booze!” They said “Mother”.
Journalist: All right.
Shri Mataji: Yes, so many of them.
Journalist: And this is-you’re just talking to them, sitting [inaudible]
Shri Mataji: No, I just – I was talking to them and I told them how you can raise your residual force, the Kundalini, the force that gives you Realization. That is the reflection of the Holy Ghost with us. Christians also don’t know what’s the Holy Ghost. Holy Ghost is the Kundalini, which is the residual force in the triangular bone, you see?
Shri Mataji: And when it humps, they make them rise, rise it, with their own hands and then suddenly they felt the booze coming out of their heads.
Journalist: Right. So if I went along and I was sceptical, and I went to the meeting and I went through the mechanics of, of – how you would you describe?
Shri Mataji: Sometimes, the reporters also get it, surprisingly. They’re cynical, I Think. [Shri Mataji laughs] Because they meet all kind of funny people, I tell you. So, it’s difficult to believe in a genuine person, you see,
Shri Mataji: There are very few genuine people in this world. So, the whole attitude is different.
Journalist: All right, yes. And when that resistance stops.
Shri Mataji: It’s that, even if they, I mean, they just don’t want to have it you see, you cannot force it on anyone.
Journalist: And you’re not about to force it on anyone.
Shri Mataji: Not at all. You have to ask it from your heart because Holy Ghost is the pure desire within you, pure desire to be one with the Divine.
Journalist: And you would not want to identify one single God or whatever.
Shri Mataji: No, not at all, it’s not that way. It’s all of them, all of the incarnations, every one of them, are the milestones of our evolution.
Shri Mataji: Of our evolution. And this is the evolutionary process, the epitome of the last breakthrough of our evolutionary process.
Journalist: Can you explain to me a question apparently a gentleman did not know you few days ago, and he has found what you believe may be a cure for AIDS or, can you explain that? Cause you know that’s going to cause all sorts of reactions.
Shri Mataji: Ha. AIDS. Now, AIDS, so far, I did definitely cure one person, no doubt.
Journalist: Yes, and it’s only the one person.
Shri Mataji: One person. But he came from TM
Journalist: Transcendental Meditation.
Shri Mataji: Trans-Med
Shri Mataji: Now, I told him not to go to near it again and finish it off.
Journalist: Ho, really?
Shri Mataji: Yes
Shri Mataji: Because they try all these entities and those things just to capture your attention and capture you.
Journalist: Well, they have a whole philosophy, you mean.
Shri Mataji: All like that. They mesmerize actually. This fellow, he was treated, he was all right. The doctors said that he had not this thing in his blood. His parents were very happy.
But again, he went to the same. Naturally, you feel, you see –then he died also.
He came back to me. I said: “Now I cannot treat you”. “Now it’s alright, finished”. “I cannot go on all the time. Why did you go? I mean I told you.”
Journalist: Yes. This is the man that became IO and was looking to TM for relaxation
Shri Mataji: No, no, no, no, no. He was in TM
Shri Mataji: And there, I don’t know, he became homosexual because in the TM, in those days- you are not supposed to even see your wife, you see, you have to live with men, you’re forced.
Journalist: You don’t.
Shri Mataji: No, no, no! All this nonsense, we don’t believe in all this nonsense. No, no! You have to be married; you have to happy husband and wife.
Journalist: And you didn’t believe in funny clothes.
Shri Mataji: No, no, no, no, nothing.
Journalist: Or begging on the street, or.
Shri Mataji: No. We have to be very normal people.
Journalist: Right. Or else, that sets you apart from every other.
Shri Mataji: Yes, of course. I mean because they must have some sort of an advertising or sensation. So, they do all these things, you see. I don’t need that. It’s a question of becoming.
Journalist: Can you explain to me this question of apparently this AIDS cure is ingested gold?
Shri Mataji: You might try gold.
Journalist: You’re trying it really, you’re not so-
Shri Mataji: I haven’t yet and we are trying still.
Shri Mataji: Yes, it is, you see. But I thought that copper can cover, the copper can be covered with gold.
Journalist: Why using copper?
Shri Mataji: It is caused by copper; I know for definite it is caused by copper.
AIDS are caused by the copper viruses. The copper are the carriers of viruses and the viruses of those-
Journalist: Mineral copper.
Shri Mataji: Yes, in the blood. And, you see, when they have these relations you know, it’s a dirty point, and the viruses and dead things are there, and viruses you see, and the skin is very loose there.
Shri Mataji: It passes into the blood and is then it, it stays on the copper. You have seen copper becoming green, have you?
Shri Mataji: It becomes like that. Now when it covers that copper, it can move about in the blood.
Journalist: Without developing into the secondary stages?
Shri Mataji: Oh, it is on in the, first of all, in the first stage all right?
Shri Mataji: Then it attacks the antibodies.
Journalist: The gold attacks the antibodies.
Shri Mataji: No, no, no, no, no. I’m saying the copper, the virus.
Shri Mataji: Now the antibodies are created in this part, the sternum.
Shri Mataji: Till the age of 12 years or so and then they disappear they are all in the body, you see. Now when they start attacking the antibodies, then so many antibodies die after. And they can’t find fight this virus. So, this because of the dead tissues and also, it grows more. Because it’s a fungus, it’s a kind of virus, this kind of fungus, it grows on something that is dead.
Shri Mataji: So, it starts growing more and more, you see. But now, if you now put copper cover it with gold, supposing, try, I mean but try, of course with Realization, I brought this man to this level, that his blood was cleared out because it’s a cleansing process. That’s a different point.
Journalist: So, I request you one more time. You say the copper is the min-
Shri Mataji: It’s happening in the medical, it’s happening with the medical side of it. But actually, in our Sahaja Yoga, we don’t have to do all these things. We raise your kundalini. Once the kundalini comes up,
Journalist: Sorry, that’s just a subtle mental suggestion.
Shri Mataji: That’s just, if the doctors want to try, they can try also you see. But so when the kundalini comes up,
Journalist: And this is the Self-realization.
Shri Mataji: The Self-realization. Then, you see, now these are the, say, these are the centres, you see? Now by too much of pull on them, say, here, in the center here, center heart.
Shri Mataji: This center gets attacked by these people- viruses. So, it gets strong because the kundalini passes through that it enlightens it, it gets strong. When it gets strong, it starts producing more and more antibodies. So, now the antibodies attack. The reverse process starts. The viruses. So, the viruses start running away from the body like that, it’s the other way round.
Journalist: All right, but that obviously will be a bone of contention, won’t it? I guess.
Shri Mataji: No, no it is why it has worked. In those people who had AIDS, we have three or four of them on the list now.
Shri Mataji: Yes. There are four of them at least are there, worldwide.
Journalist: Are dead.
Shri Mataji: No, living, living, and they got AIDS about, I think, two years back or they came to Sahaja Yoga. and we gave them Realization, two years back we gave them Realization. I don’t know how many years they have AIDS, you see. And now they are at the same stage as the first stage. They have receded back to the first stage.
Journalist: They still got the antibodies.
Shri Mataji: They still got, I mean if-
Shri Mataji: It is in four stages, that’s in four states. So, now they have gone back to the first stage, all of them.
Journalist: Were they at the first stage when you met them?
Shri Mataji: I don’t know. I didn’t have their [inaudible] but they were saying so. They have gone back. So, now, they are leading a normal health. Normally what happens with this, that one gets diarrhoea. You get perspiration at wrong times all these things happen. They have started doing all that. All that stopped and now they are at the first stage.
Journalist: So, they had their [inaudible] at that stage.
Shri Mataji: They are coming back to only that part. So, maybe, they might jump out also.
Journalist: In fact, what you’re saying is supported by some research here in south Australia which is the only one in the world that’s looking at the effect of your mind on how the body whether the AIDS becomes a full-blown disease or whether it stays in. And you’re arguing that with that Self-realization they’re better.
Shri Mataji: No, no that is the centre, you see you can see on the when the kundalini moves, you see? You can see it with your own eyes also on some people.
Shri Mataji: Yes.
Journalist: That’s done naturally?
Shri Mataji: You see, because it’s an energy that moves on your backbone, right? But what happens that you see it clearly in the cases of people who have obstructions in their chakras but if they are open it just shoots off. Now on these people, you can see if it’s there, it stops there. Also, can feel it. You see, on your fingertips, after Realization, you can feel where the kundalini is, where she is obstructed. So, you find out that it is obstructed here. Now when you find out it’s obstructed here, you have to- a little bit- to move, you see, that obstruction. Because the hands, from the fingertips the vibrations are flowing. So, you can remove the obstruction.
Journalist: Can you explain me how it’s a physical thing?
Shri Mataji: You see, after Realization what happens, your hands start emitting a kind of an energy, a cool breeze from your hand.
Journalist: This is the cool breeze you told.
Shri Mataji: Yes, the cool breeze and also you can feel the good breeze all around you. it’s true, it happens to you. All right. Now this is the vital energy from your hand with which Christ has cured.
So, if you move- it gets complicated. [Laughter]
Because you asked me about gold, I had to tell you the doctor’s things. But actually, we don’t do that. We actually don’t do all that. No, what we do is to give Realization that’s all. And you start moving the kundalini upward, you start moving it.
Journalist: So, the gold therapy is just something [inaudible]
Shri Mataji: Yes, if they want to try, they can try that.
Journalist: But you’re not really-
Shri Mataji: No, no, we don’t try all that, we don’t try.
Journalist: But didn’t you do that in Melbourne for somebody?
Shri Mataji: No, no, no, no. I told them that if you want you can.
Journalist: Oh, I see, yes, yes.
Shri Mataji: But I didn’t try on them.
Journalist: No, no. You really unconstitutional [unsure]
Shri Mataji: You see, what we do is to raise the kundalini all the time at this point. So, it gets more light and more light and more light and it becomes a strong center.
Journalist: Can you tell me, is it something that can just happen on one occasion and then you’re okay for, you feel better for it, or do you have to work on it again?
Shri Mataji: You see, one has to work I think, because it’s an age-old problem I think, with some people. So, many things you get cured without any difficulties but some things you have to work out also. It is individual. It depends on everybody’s –
Journalist: Everybody’s individual-
Shri Mataji: Yes, style. So, you cannot say that everything could be that way. But so many diseases get better at a very short time.
Journalist: Well, I won’t hold you up anymore you must be very tired after you –
Shri Mataji: No, I’m not. [Laughter] I’m quite- I don’t get too easily tired.
Shri Mataji: Not much, yes.
Journalist: And your husband is still in London?
Shri Mataji: Yes. He’s in in London. Now, today, he’s in Rome. He telephoned to me.
Journalist: Right. So, you keep in touch with him.
Shri Mataji: He travels a lot himself.
Journalist: Right. And you must be doing a lot of traveling.
Shri Mataji: Yes, I travel with him also I travel for Sahaja Yoga. There’s a double town [unsure]. My brother is with me he is a high court judge from Bombay. He sits here.
Journalist: Yes, I gather you’ve been travelling with [unclear].
I will, perhaps I can get your name from your [unclear].
Sahaja Yogi: V.P. Salve. V.P. S-A-L-V-E
Journalist: Judge, high court judge of Bombay.
Sahaja Yogi: Bombay, stationed at Aurangabad.
Journalist: You’ll have to give me the spelling of that too.
Sahaja Yogi: A-U-R-A-N-G-A. BA- B-A.
Shri Mataji: Where you have [inaudible].
Sahaja Yogi: Yes, yes. All right?
Journalist: Thank you very much and your title is that of high court judge.
Sahaja Yogi: Yes, yes.
Journalist: All right. [Inaudible].
Shri Mataji: He himself was not a believer of God in the beginning.
Journalist: You support your sister now.
Shri Mataji: Now he’s all right.
Journalist: How long did you have to work on him?
Shri Mataji: You see, being the sister, naturally, it takes time.
Sahaja Yogi: [Inaudible] in between.
Shri Mataji: But not with false gurus. I’ve seen the false people get all their relations together to make money. I don’t know. My family is a very, I should say, idealistic family. And by, you see, not that he didn’t believe in me he always believed in me and my love. But he never believed that I could change people or transform people, you see?
Sahaja Yogi: After I saw the Sahaja Yogis, that I was convinced that what she says is right.
Journalist: Really? And how long ago you took to-
Sahaja Yogi: It’s only about two- one and a half years. Since I became a high court judge and was stationed at Aurangabad, I could have some more time. I was a lawyer, a practicing lawyer that didn’t give me time.
Shri Mataji: And his diabetes is cured and also, he could not bend himself, he bends himself well.
Sahaja Yogi: I was not able to bend at all. These legs they’re all very stiff.
Journalist: Really, it’s a lovely angle, I must admit. Terrific! And oh, I ought to ask your age. Do I ask your age?
Sahaja Yogi: Age?
Shri Mataji: My age?
Sahaja Yogi: I am sixty-one.
Shri Mataji: He is sixty-one. I am sixty-four. Now running sixty-fifth.
Sahaja Yogi: Maybe, I’ll be sixty-one in June.
Journalist: I’m sure [inaudible].
All right then. I will leave you now.
Do you have photos?
Shri Mataji: We have lots of them. Find me some miraculous ones, you may like. We had some very miraculous photographs of mine. You would like to see some?
Have you brought up the hands?
Another Sahaja Yogi: The latest yes, we have, let us take this.
Shri Mataji: [Inaudible] showing something you will be interested.
Journalist: We are getting out of the way.
Sahaja Yogi: I met some of you…
Shri Mataji: Dan your home work is very well. You see, if they have done home work well, their hand is all right. Otherwise, it’s a problem. [Unsure].
Have you got some photographs?
Shri Mataji: I don’t practice this [inaudible] because I’m born like this, I don’t have to be cleared. But all of them practice. It takes only five minutes in the morning and five minutes in the evening, twice a day, that’s all. Yes, that’s all. It’s not a regular thing or else. It’s something that happens to you. You are in meditation. And you become a person who is meditating because you are in contact with the Divine. Then you don’t have to worry. That’s it. It’s simple.
Journalist: Thank you very much.
Shri Mataji: Thank you, thank you.
Journalist: I think I will go tomorrow at one of these meetings.
Shri Mataji: You must come along, you see.
Journalist: Oh, I’ll be coming along.
Shri Mataji: At what time
Another Sahaja Yogi: I think that’s ashram in Melbourne.
All right then you can send some to Paul to see for himself, you see.
Shri Mataji: You both should come tomorrow get your Realization.
Cameraman: But how was that picture taken, with what?
Another Sahaja Yogi: A camera.
Shri Mataji: Holiness. You might get something in yours.
Even in a village, I was sitting. [Unclear] she got lights coming out of my head [unclear].
Shri Mataji: Lots of them are there, but you don’ carry that load with you.
What about them? You should offer them some tea.
They won’t have some tea or something? Ask them.
[The brother of Shri Mataji who is speaking here is Vinaykumar Salve, called Balasahib, then Balamama, born June 10, 1926.]