Talk, Eve of Shri Vishnumaya Puja

Pawling (United States)



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Day before Shri Vishnumaya Puja. New York (USA), 8 August 1987.

It’s very gratifying to see so many of you Americans have gathered today, and tomorrow you want to have the Vishnumaya Puja. I remember the days when I used to talk to chairs only, but all these years after working so very hard, visiting this country so many times, still we have very, very few Sahaja Yogis compared to any other nation.

In this country of Shri Krishna, is inevitable that people will put their attention to money, because He is the incarnation of Vishnu and His Power is Lakshmi. Lakshmi is the Goddess of money, but that is not the money that is called as “dollar”. It is the money which means a complete, integrated form of material wealth. As it is, matter has only one power: that it can express our love to others. Like, if you have to express your love to someone, you would make a nice present or something that is useful for the person; or you may give your property, wealth to your children. In a very symbolic manner, you might even give a small, little stone, if you are a child to your mother, which you find interesting that would make your mother happy. But all the time, the idea behind giving matter to someone is to show your love and emotions – to show your concern and express your heart. So to express your heart through something gross, we use matter. Now when this matter is converted into something and it becomes sort of an economic activity where you have to price it, then the attention shifts from emotions to matter as something that has some superficial value than the deeper value that is love.

Even in the olden days when people had lots of money with them, they used to decorate their houses, wear good dresses, to invite people into their homes to make them happy, to make them comfortable. A rich man would have a fair or something like that to make people happy. Gradually, again the attention shifted from that to something which is extremely gross, is to show off. But the purpose fails completely when you try to show off, another person is never happy. On the contrary, he’s jealous. So what’s the use of showing off because the purpose is to make another person happy. Instead of that, you make him jealous. Then second steps comes in with it that you create a antagonistic feelings in another person. That person thinks that, “Why should he have and why should I not?” Because that person cannot enjoy what you have.

Thus, there are theories and theories that came out in our political systems, into our economic systems: how to exacerate it and how to utilize it for something even grosser. And this grossness grew more and more and more. Once you allow the matter to act like that, this matter sits on our top. We are powerless people. It’s the matter that becomes powerful, because it rules us completely. We can’t do without this, we can’t do without that, we can’t do without this. And then we become complete slaves of matter. Matter sits so much upon us that we get completely blinded to what our purpose is to be on this earth, and start crawling like worms under the pressure of matter. What is this? Is nothing but stones, bricks, everything is matter. What is the importance of this? Is nothing, except we have to have a seminar. If we don’t have the seminar, if you are not going to do anything sensible to create harmony and understanding, no use having all this.

This is what has to be realized: that matter has its own purpose and, as Sahaja Yogis, we are not going to be ruled by matter. Is very difficult to decide because from our childhood we are taught, “Be careful! Don’t touch this. Don’t touch that.” As if that is the god. “Don’t spoil it.”

So the whole attention gets engulfed into this gross existence of matter. So the person starts moving from his ascent to his descent. From matter you became carbon, from carbon you become amino acids, from amino acids you became living things, from living things you became human beings and now you have to become Sahaja Yogis. But the attention starts moving downwards towards matter and we acquire all the qualities that is matter, except for one which only we can give that power to matter – that it can express our love.

You become static, you become unchangeable; and when you start using this matter for a lower end than this, then you hurt. Same matter starts evolving into things like weapons. First must be the stone they must be hitting with, then the clubs of stones. Then came the swords, then came the guns, then came atomic energy. So the same matter has gone into evolution into another direction. But matter could have been moved into a higher direction if you had seen the quality of matter to give joy.

Then we did that for quite some time, we made beautiful carvings, beautiful churches and temples, beautiful paintings, beautiful statues. I think it ended up in America when they made the Statue of Liberty. After that it took another form. Now if you see the women of America, you will understand that it has no resemblance with that of the Statue of Liberty. I mean, even to have a model you’ll have to import some from somewhere else to make a model to create that statue. That dignity, that presence, that motherly feeling that she emits, the protection she gives with her strength.

Everybody is tired like that. Everybody is absolutely a dainty darling. They do not want to take any responsibilities, put the responsibility on to somebody else. Here stands the symbol of such great protection of a woman to man. On the contrary, the same protection today has become a domination of men.

Instead of men becoming men, they have becoming cabbages here. It’s the other way round things have moved. I find it very hard to believe that the same time we had people like Abraham Lincoln. Now I don’t think we can produce anyone like this. Where are those mothers who created Abraham Lincoln? Where are those great women who sacrificed everything for their children to give them such greatness? George Washington fought the whole time all his life with such a strong wife he had.

But here now the women have become nothing but matter they think that by wearing such and such dress or going to a hair dresser, cutting all their hair in a funny way they become powerful. I am talking about women today because we are talking of Vishnumaya, but not to hurt you. Because in this men are very much responsible. Let us see, see the point, where we are going. The whole society is ruined today, if you see. You feel terrible when you see how things are happening in this country. The children are shooting everyone, small little children are shooting. On the road if you go, everybody is panicked. Why it has happened to us where you have created such great heroes in this country and now you cannot create any hero? What has gone wrong, where?

I know they have made a mess, these men have made a mess of all this politics and everything that they call “manly”, so-called. But, Vishnumaya is the power of a woman. She’s the power of a woman, and they say that American women are very, very powerful. Where does the power lie? The power lies how many men you can divorce and have how much money with you? How many people you can divorce and have, under the law, so much money – that’s not, that’s not the power of a woman. One has to understand where have we lost our power. The power of a woman is not enslaving for men, that they should appreciate you morning till evening, every person on the road must look at you – that’s not the power of a woman. That could be the power of a prostitute, but not of a woman who stands as a symbol of liberty.

The power of woman is like that of the Mother Earth. See how much She’s done for you. She’s given you all the greenery, the beauty. Wherever She goes down, She fills Herself up with water, and She gives you such joy and happiness and bears all the problems of the world despite of whatever things we have done to Her, despite the way we extracted all Her wealth and everything, still She’s giving us wealth. That’s what we are! When we have lost our power, our society has come down. The society has to be maintained by women, not by men. One must understand, woman plays the most important role. She’s in no way less than man, but if she becomes this kind of a power, destruction starts moving in the other direction.

The whole topsy turvyness we have to correct in Sahaja Yoga. When I see the image of Sahaja Yoga, when I see when we all will be together, where we will be all enjoying ourselves, I want to see My women, My daughters, to be the symbol of love and symbol of sacrifice and symbol of understanding. And then the dynamism of this sacrifice will be shown because they are potential. You are the ones, you are the ones who are really potential and you have to give them energy to be kinetic. Those who cannot have potential energies have become potential. What’s the use? While those who have the potential energies have become kinetic. What’s the use? This has to shift. We have to think about it, understand. We’ve gone wrong, really we’ve gone wrong somewhere and this wrong our children will have to pay, their children will have to pay, the whole nation will have to pay.

Turn your attention to something very noble. This is the power of Vishnumaya because Vishnumaya is the One Who was the sister of Shri Krishna. She came as Shri Krishna’s sister. Of course She is the virgin. She was born as the sister of Shri Krishna. Now see, the story is very interesting. If you see the story, then you’ll understand what I’m trying to tell you. The story is like this:

The eighth Incarnation – as they call it, power; according to Sahaja Yoga we call Him the King of the Vishuddhi – Shri Krishna was to be born. He was born in a jail. His parents were in the jail. So Vishnumaya, at the same time, took birth in a village called as Nanda Gram where another friend called Nanda was living, and his wife was Yeshoda. She took Her birth in that family. Then She was a very, very powerful child. When Shri Krishna was born, He was carried by the father from the jail. Because of Shri Krishna’s powers, all his shackles, all his chains were broken, the doors opened, and he waded through the river Yamuna and carried the child and gave it to Nanda.

Nanda said, “I have got a child but She is a girl, about the same time.” So see the power that time this little child gave to Mother Yeshoda.

They said, “All right. Do one thing: take this child with you and replace it with Shri Krishna.”

What a sacrifice for a woman to give her own child at that time, a little babe, to be killed by this horrible fellow, Kansa! No mother would do such a thing. Can you think of any mother who will give her child to be killed for the replacement of Shri Krishna? We cannot think of any mother, but we had some mothers like this in India who did very great sacrifices. Now, this was the greatest sacrifice one could think of for a woman. She may sacrifice small, little things or quite a lot of things, but to sacrifice your own child is the greatest thing. The woman sacrifices for her children quite a lot. She works for them, she keeps nights and nights vigil for them. She does so much for her children. But to give up Her own child is something, such a extraordinary thing, which She did. And when he brought the child, that child was the Power, was the Adi Shakti in the form of a virgin and was kept back.

So when this Kansa came in the morning, and he heard a little girl is born, he was amazed. It was going to be a son, how is it a girl is born?

“Whatever it is,” he said, “I’ll destroy this Child.” Got hold of that Child and he was about to hit the Child on the ground, when She slipped out and went into the sky and became a lightning to announce that, “One Who was to destroy is still alive.” He was shocked.

So behind all this what we see a character of Yeshoda Who was so sacrificing, of the father who was so sacrificing, of a society where it was important to preserve the Incarnation above everything else. And this kind of happening when it took place, Shri Krishna grew up in the house of Nanda where He then expressed Himself as a powerful personality.

But this Vishnumaya is there and She is very active these days, extremely active. She’s the One which is within you, very much there, in the Left Vishuddhi She sits there. She doesn’t allow you to feel guilty.

“Why are you guilty?” All the time She says, “Why are you guilty? Why are you unhappy? You are realized souls, you are Sahaja Yogis. Get out of it! This guilty business, no good – get out of it! Come along. You have to find a way.”

Yes, the destruction is ahead of you. You see the destruction of this great country, you see so clearly is working out. I feel there are two worlds which are now building up. One that is getting destroyed; one that is coming out of it like a lotus. But behind is the Power of Vishnumaya – is the Power of Vishnumaya, the Power of Sister of Shri Krishna.

Now this Vishnumaya is a female Power, as you know that. She didn’t care for anything mundane. Can you think of Vishnumaya going after all these nonsensical things? And to protect Her brothers, and to give all the strength to those brothers, what did She do? What did She do? She came in Her purest form, as a Sister. You all have here so many Sahaja Yogis as your brothers. You must be having other people also as your brothers. This purity has to be brought into women. Unless and until this purity comes into them, they have no powers, they are powerless. So we come down to main thing is that: where the women are pure and chaste, there resides the powers of all the deities. So it’s such a responsibility for us to be very chaste, and to be very pure, and to be sisters to our brothers so that their brothers are also protected from the temptations of the world; so that they, too, have their attention onto something higher and greater.

It’s a very, very great day I feel to come down to America to do this Puja. I’m going to tell you all about it, but let us understand that we are power, we are power. We are not the power which can be dominated by money, by anything else. We are power because we are Sahaja Yoginis, because we have that character.

Now, it’s important for men to understand the value of women. Those men in this country, all right they look like cabbages but they can be horrid, absolutely horrid people, because they have no sense of purity of their character. If the man is not all right, how can he have a sister who is pure? If the man doesn’t believe in the chastity of life – for some men, I mean most of the men, there’s nothing like chastity. They never believed in anything like chastity – in the modern times. That is what we lack, and in Sahaja Yoga when I think of My children, of My sons, they should be brilliant with chastity. The whole presence must shine with chastity. When people look at them they should say, “Oh, that’s innocence going. See the innocence and the chastity moving together!”

So that’s what is in men: the innocence. It’s not necessary to be too cunning. Nobody can deceive you. An innocent person, with one stroke, can kill hundred useless people. So it is important that men must also understand the value of innocence.

She was Krishna’s sister, all right. Now look at Shri Krishna as a child – how innocent He was, and how powerful! He wanted to eat the butter. Now why He wanted to eat the butter because all the butter that was made in Gokul, in that place, was sent to Mathura where this horrible King Kansa was ruling. And all his military people became very strong by eating that butter. So He didn’t want them to eat the butter, so He started a kind of a tribe of small children and a game that they climb on top of each other. And the butter was kept in a pot hanging from the roof, so they would go and eat all that up. In that little childhood He started this innocent play, so all the children used to climb up and eat the butter. So now there’s no butter left, so how will they take it to Mathura? This was done and one day His mother caught hold of Him.

She said, “Did You eat any butter from here?” All butter was here all around.

He said, “How? How can I eat the butter? See, can I reach My hand there? See now, how can I …”

“Oh, so You took the stick and broke it?”

“No, no, I did not.”

“Then what is all this?”

“See, these are all My friends who ate it. I put it on My mouth so that you can beat Me.”

So innocently talking like an ordinary child, this One, an ordinary, simple child.

So Mother said, “All right. Let Me see Your mouth.”

He opens the mouth and She sees the complete, She sees the complete universe, complete universe revolving into His mouth. And She sees it.

And She says, “Oh Lord, please forgive Me. I forgot! I really forgot that You are the Lord of this universe and I am doubting You!” She just fell at His feet. “There must be some play in what You’re doing.” In a simple, innocent way like a child would say He told the Mother.

So the innocence of a child and the innocence of a virgin, or you can say the chastity of a virgin and innocence of a child brought forth, brought forth the existence of America. Out of that, this country was created. So you can imagine that this great country has now, see everywhere the beauty, I mean every place you go to, you find such greenery. I went to Los Angeles, it’s a desert, but still you could get water and you can make it into a beautiful place. You have everything that a human being can ask for, but there’s something lacking: is not to understand why it was given to us, how it was give to us. As I told you, it was created out of that innocence and chastity. And if we cannot think of that chastity and that innocence, then we can never mature into sensible, proper Sahaja Yogis.

There’s nothing to feel hurt when somebody tells you that, “See, this what we are.” Basically, that’s what we are and that’s how fundamentally we should understand and grow into a personality that is American. But what one finds is all the instruments of destruction are created. Like small children, I mean, you find children and children. Small children, you’ll find them, they fight each other. All right. Fights is all right. But not only that, they kill their parents. They kill their grandparents. What’s that going on? How is it happening? Where have we lost the innocence? What’s gone wrong? Where are we mistaken? We have to just turn round.

If you really feel you are Americans, you have to save this country. It’s in great danger of complete destruction. You do not realize what you’re facing. It’s not the AIDS I’m so much worried about, or it’s not the earthquake which is hanging on them. It is complete losing of your being and becoming matter. When you have robots, you’ll become same, and you’ll destroy yourself in that way. It’s a very, very serious matter which is not yet seen through your eyes, for you do not see it. You must really be praying that, “Oh God, please save this country!” You should be really asking for nothing else but “save this great country”, a part and parcel of Virata, and the Virata rules in the Vishuddhi.

It’s such a problem for Me. Whole thing is so upside down. I have to start from America, and where do I go? I started from America. I came here, as I told you, talking to chairs, and still so many are just chairs. All the subtleties from the brain have gone away. Whatever advancement has been made, has made them primitive. And after some time, they’ll become like stones. They won’t feel anything, they won’t hear anything, they won’t understand anything. They’ll not grow anymore. Then, what am I to do? This universe which was created as the working of the Virata will have to shift to some other style of universe, which is a very big shifting.

For all the Sahaja Yogis it is necessary to understand the importance of their existence as Sahaja Yogis. They are Sahaja Yogis first, and Americans later. But, if they’re Americans first, then they must work it out. It’s not something sideways – you see, “all right, there’s a seminar, let’s go for the seminar, good” – then come back home, again just the same. You have to really meditate, work very hard. You are the people who are going to change this country; and, ultimately, the whole of the universe. Is you who has to understand. It’s not Me. You have to see it and understand that your position is very important. In Sahaja Yoga, Americans have a very great position. Remember, in the beginning we paid everything for these Americans to come down to India. They were treated with such lavishness.

And everybody was saying, “Mother, why are You paying for their fares? Why are You paying for their food? Why do you want them to be so treated? What’s so great about Americans? Again they’ll develop ego.”

I said, “You don’t know.”

Of course all those are lost now. I don’t see them anywhere, but whatever it is, My desire, My anxiety, My concern has worked. I’m very happy you all are here. I could come here for the Vishnumaya Puja. It’s something I hope we should work it out. I don’t know how far we have gone now. In the subtler way I think Ganesha Puja has helped a lot, and I can see the two worlds coming up very clearly. One which is living, which is pulsating, which is full of vibrations, which is becoming the lotus; the another one which is becoming the worm, the mud, the mire. I see it so clearly, separated by this Ganesha Puja. Now by this Vishnu Puja, let us see if we become those dynamic, loving, affectionate, compassionate Sahaja Yogis, and pure relationships with each other, so that people see you as something very great like the lightening, they should see you shining in the sky and they should then come down to Sahaja Yoga and come up to the expectations of Shri Krishna.

May God bless you.

Shri Mataji: Now, any questions?

Question from a yogini: I have a question. Something that I’m encountering in my life, and I and this guy who I introduced to Sahaja and we went together. He became very frightened after the first meeting and he became very much against Sahaja

Shri Mataji: Me?

Yogini: Yes, saying that You were bad. And I, continually I have had great results with another woman whose experienced. And he, on the contrary is very much against it and we were involved a lot with channeling and a spiritual, you know, man that channels spirits. And I seem to think that he is still involved with that in some way. I seem to think that is what is holding him back. Something is holding him and I don’t know that if it is my place to help him or just be a light or … I don’t know what to do.

Shri Mataji: Now to be very frank, no American is afraid of anything. Every world is afraid of them. It’s a wrong idea they have. It’s very surprising that the people who give sense of insecurity to everyone always say, “I’m insecure.” Very surprising. That’s the way they can just say. I haven’t met any American who is insecure. On the contrary they are extremely aggressive people – very, very aggressive for nothing at all.

I’ll give an example. The other day we had gone to one lawyer and we were waiting for the lift to come down. When the lift came, such a hefty, tall man, six foot at least seven inches, very hefty man was in that. And we were standing for the lift to come, we didn’t know there’s somebody inside there.

As soon as the lift opened, he says, “Who are you, like a bunch of thugs standing here?”

Can you imagine? We were amazed. There was no need. He had a chance to say something to us, he just said it.

“So please,” we said. “It’s all right.” What could you do?

This is the kind of fear they have. Russians and Americans. Both are just the same, I would say. Let them fight it out among themselves. But to say that an American is frightened of something, that’s the biggest joke. They are not frightened. On the contrary, they always fall into problems because they go to something which is challenging. All the false gurus take money from you. All right. Now they say, this one, recently somebody told Me she paid so much money to the gentleman. He took her into a room all alone. She’s not frightened! I mean an Indian woman would be frightened of a man who takes her into a room alone.

She says, “No, no, no. You’d better do whatever you like.” She’s not frightened. She went inside the room.

He said, “Now take out your clothes.” She took out her clothes. Not frightened.

He said, “Now you sit here, and jump. Jump, jump, jump!” She started jumping. Not afraid that she’ll break her bones or hands or feet or anything. Just started jumping.

“Haah! I feel very fine. I feel very nice.”

What are they afraid of? Doing stupid things they are not afraid of, doing nonsensical things they are not afraid of, but to do sensible things they are. That’s basically wrong thing. You know in Brighton we had a nude, a nude – what do you call that? – swimming pool. When it’s such a cold time there. I don’t know why in a country which is so cold people want to take out their clothes. Some sort of – I can’t understand. I mean in the night we sleep with all our clothes on in a place like India. What is the need to take out clothes, I still don’t understand.

All right. So, there was a, one swimming pool they started, a very big venture, you know. All the television, everything focused and everybody watching, is for the women and men who become nude. What is so great? Anybody can become. But, there was an old lady, of My age, walking into the water. It’s very cold, you know. I was wondering, “This woman will get cold or something like that and pneumonia.”

They said, “How do you feel?”

“Oh, I feel very hot.”

This stupid woman was feeling hot, you know. This is what it is. “What’s wrong?” To do something stupid, nonsensical they have no fear. How is it you think all these gurus have prospered with all their tricks where people have become mad, have become lunatics; they’ve lost their money, sold their children out. How? For Sahaja Yoga, they’re frightened. Why? You see the point? See the point? This is exact is the character. Such people cannot do Sahaja Yoga. We have to have people of strength, people of character, people of dignity. We can’t have such people who go after this thing.

Like the other day, one boy came and he asked Me all stupid questions and he was saying that, “You see, what about flying in the air?”

I said, “It’s all right. But supposing you are suddenly dropped down. What will you do?”

He’s willing to fly in the air. Supposing, you see, he has no wings, nothing, no parachute. How will he come down? Even the children understand the joke. So this is what it is. To be like a clown, they have no fear at all. But to be sensible, balanced and dignified, they’re afraid.

We are not here to ask for elections, are we? Sahaja Yoga is difficult – for people who are stupid, naturally, people who want to have a life of destruction. It’s for people who want to evolve, people who want to become more compassionate, affectionate, and humble – which is very difficult. Here the training is, if you are humble, anybody will trample on you, you’ll be finished, you’ll be killed. All right? You have to be aggressive.

To say an aggressive person is afraid of another person, then you’d better change the meaning of the word “aggressive.” I would not say only Americans, even English. In English language, “I’m afraid.” What are they afraid? Everybody is afraid of an Englishman. If he comes in your house, be careful. He’ll create problem between husband and wife.

What is there to be afraid? Afraid of that is Divine, of that is blissful, that is such an advantage to you? Sahaja Yoga is nothing but blessings, blessings, blessings. Nothing to sacrifice, nothing to give up, nothing to sell out. Even small, small things like children, their problems, this, that is looked into. Somebody who cares for you, Somebody who manages things, Somebody who makes you powerful and confident and secure. What is there to be afraid of? But the brains are upside down. They are not afraid of a tiger, but afraid of a cow. What do you say to such a person?

Say, “What are you afraid of?”

“Afraid of a cow.”

“And what you’re not afraid of?”

“Not of a tiger.”

“All right. It’s all right. Sorry. I’ll go to some other place.” That’s what you have to say.

I mean, this is what it is: people are just upside down. Their value system is upside down. Example I’ll give you, very simple example, this Mr. Hart lost his election because they said he had some relationship with some woman somewhere. It’s so common in this country. What is there that he should lose? I mean, if he had done something else, like if he had taken some money of the government or must have cheated them, then it’s all right. But on a point which everybody does! It would be tomorrow, “Why did you eat a sausage? That’s why it lose you.” It’s absurd. They’re upside down. Brains are upside down. See, what is the logic?

So those who say they’re afraid, you say, “You’re right. You go and bang your head with something. That would be better for you.” It’s all stories, I tell you, is the way they put you down. There’s nothing to be afraid from a fragrance of the flower – it’s like that.

There’s … we have a guru who cannot bear any flowers. No fragrance. But if you take the water from the gutters, he’s very happy. Now, what do you say to that? I mean we are not here to please such people, are we? You know there’s a guru like that. He can’t bear … He got how many Rolls Royces? Sixty-three Rolls Royces. And they used to take gutter water for him, instead of giving flowers. And there are many Americans who did it, thousands and thousands and thousands. Imagine, to buy sixty-three Rolls Royces out of American money. What do you say to them? But they’re afraid to come to Sahaja Yoga. See? This is self-deception.

There’s nothing hiding in Sahaja Yoga. We have to say what one has to say. We have to face what one has to face. You should not have any conditionings about it. You should not have any ego about it. Try to understand that this has to be understood: that we have to be ourselves. We have to grow. Whatever is wrong within us has to go away. But it’s only possible when you become the Self. Like, if I have something wrong on My sari, I can only see it if I have eyes, otherwise anybody says, “You’re wearing a sari which is dirty”, I might be angry. If I’m identified with the sari, I’ll be angry. But if I see, “Oh God! I’d better clean it.”

So it’s a vicious circle how to open their eyes, because to open their eyes is very difficult, impossible, because they are afraid. They’re afraid of the light, happy with the darkness. Now you cannot please them. Also, you must know that if you put the whole American people together and all the Western people together, we have manifold more people say in India and other countries who will become realized souls. God doesn’t bother from where they come. If they want to accept such horrible gurus, let them have it and go with them. As they say, “Take two running jumps and go to Hell!”

That’s the attitude of the Divine, I really tell you. But not Mine, because I am the Mother so I have to make the compromise between the nonsensical people and the Divine, which is nothing but sense. There, that is common sense. So what I have to do is to: “All right. Doesn’t matter. Let’s try. Let’s try. They’ll come along. They’ll be all right. They are created by God, that’s why they are loved.” But not because you are seeking any elections. You must realize it. We are not the only human beings living. We are not the topmost people. Let’s see where we have gone. I don’t want to condemn anyone as such, because they are all My children, but I would like you to see where are we. We must understand, we are getting destroyed, our children are getting destroyed, our society is getting destroyed, the whole thing is getting destroyed. Where are we? What’s the use of calling ourselves great?

Now AIDS, you’ll be surprised, there’s a war on AIDS – what is the war on AIDS? Once upon a time, you see, these tourists used to bring their clothes and their, what you call, sleeping bags and everything, and sell them in the border of Nepal. My daughter lives there. Once they got the news of AIDS, not that they don’t purchase this, but they’ve thrown everything, whatever they had in the house and burnt it up. This is the situation. Nobody wants to kiss an American these days, to be very frank. I’ve been warned. That’s what you are. That’s what we are going. Let’s see where are we going, relatively. But we think still we are great. Then who can help you? You are just holding on now to something. Any moment you’ll fall down. Supposing that is the situation, then try to understand you are in a difficult situation. I want to warn you again, just like Vishnumaya, be – not only that you should understand, but be in possession of this understanding that we have to save others.

If they are afraid, tell them, “What are you afraid of, stupid fellow? Come along.” They like it, I tell you.

“But I am afraid …”

Then you also very sophisticatedly say, “Oh, I am sorry you are afraid. What are you afraid of?”

All right? That’s how it will work. Otherwise it is not going to work out. I’ve tried all tricks. Nothing works out unless you tell them, “Better join Sahaja Yoga otherwise you’ll be destroyed tomorrow. You’ll get cancer, you’ll get AIDS, you’ll get this. If you want to save yourself, come to Sahaja Yoga.” That’s what they understand, and that’s what the gurus do to them. “If you do not jump, I’ll throw you out of the room.” So they start jumping. It’s a fact. Till they break their bones, they jump.

So you should know that you’re Sahaja Yogis and that you are building up a new society of people who can save others. For that you have to know how far people have gone, how you have to pull them out, how you have to work it out. Any style of compromise, any style of explanation, discussion – try everything, because after all, I don’t want them to be destroyed. But don’t think what they say has any sense in it. You must have a higher understanding than they are because you know that they are catching on the Agnya and they are afraid. All right?

Some of them do say – I’ve heard – that, “Supposing we get transformed, then we cannot enjoy the life of every day life.” What are you enjoying? On the road you are walking, when I came in Los Angeles, they told Me, “Mother, do You know, serious things have happened.”

I said, “What serious things?”

“On this road three people were killed last week.”

I said, “How?”

“Just they shot.”

“What’s so great about us?”, you should ask. “Aren’t you worried about this may happen to you – to happen to your children? They’ll be killed. Anybody can kill you. What are you doing about it?” Talk like that as if you understand the problem. You express your concern, your heartfelt concern. Definitely they will understand.

Because they told Me that “In Sahaja Yoga it’s very bad because we’ll be transformed and then we’ll not enjoy.” So this is what you’re enjoying on the street – go ahead. Enjoy the fear, the scariness of it. You can’t make your children play in the front door. That’s what you’re enjoying? They enjoy, if they’re stupid they say, “We … this is our fundamental right to be stupid.” But you have a fundamental right to enjoy joy, to meet joy. Have you met joy? That’s your fundamental right: to be the Spirit. Have you become the Spirit? It’s fundamental right – what sort of a fundamental right it is to be stupid? And they say it openly, shamelessly, without any respect of yourself. They have no respect of themselves, so they have to first have their own respect. For that, they have to understand that they’re human beings at the epitome of evolution. They don’t have to become worms now anymore.

All this you can talk to them the way I’m talking to you, all of you, and tell them, “See, now this is what it is. What is happening? What are we doing about it?” All right? Even then if they say so, all right. Don’t waste your energy. We have to work it out together. Try any tricks that are possible; you are permitted. But in Sahaj Yoga there’s no need to tell lies, no need to do any harm, to torture someone. There’s no need at all. But better bring to their understanding, in their vision, what is going to happen to the country. That’s your job as Sahaj Yogis.

I don’t want anything from you, as you know. But, you have to understand that Mother has given us realization, that we have become Sahaj Yogis – for what? We have become Sahaja Yogis to be the light, to show them the light, show them the darkness, show them the way they will fall down and will be destroyed. That’s our job. All right?

May God bless you.

Any other question, please?

Question from a Yogi: I was wondering if You could talk about what we could do to form a school for our children here in America. Many of us now with small children [???????]

Shri Mataji: That has been My primal problem here. I know, it’s terrible, I know! You see it’s going to be very difficult for you to have your children sent to these schools because the atmosphere is so bad. For the time being I only feel that you must develop your children in such a manner that they become strong, self-confident, and also they have good examples before them, as you people are – to begin with. And you will find many Indian families are here, but what I have seen is that the children of at least sixty percent of Indian families don’t learn bad things, normally. This is My own experience. The reason is because the Indian family people are all the time talking to their children, having a nice family meetings together, taking them out, telling them about good things, of sharing; because those people who are here from India have had that kind of a training, so they are trying to train their children in the same way. Now the families which are so-called “advanced” here can be too hollow in nonsensical things. Because when it comes to advancement, they don’t know how to relate it to anything else. But those who are not that way, those who have been going through a lifestyle, still maintain their own ideas and their own behavior, their own principles. They are imbibed by children, and they just think, “These are another category of people; these are not our style, these are different.” They don’t change. I’ve seen many families like that.

In the same way, first of all you must pay full attention to your children, talk to them, bring them up in such a manner that they have another value system. I mean, I can say about My own daughters or grandchildren, you put them anywhere in the world, they will never become like others, because they have their roots. So you must try to make their roots very strong into great principles. Then they won’t be that much in difficulty.

Like as I was discussing today … people that … see the … as I said that Indian society has built up itself in traditional … now ages it has built in traditions and things. So it must have made mistakes, trial and error and all that. But it has reached certain really some very fine points. One thing about children in India, say, we don’t tell them, “Don’t touch this! Don’t take this! Don’t open this!” Never. We also don’t allow them just to behave like a bull in a china shop.

Supposing now I want to have a Diet Coke. All right? So I tell a child, “All right, go and get one tin of Diet. Now bring this glass. Slowly, because it is very cold, so beautiful, you have to use it very carefully. Now keep it there. Now open the can. Put it in there. Now you have bring it and give it to a friend or anyone.”

So the child carries it very carefully. But supposing it falls down, doesn’t matter! He’ll have another one. So the child develops the deftness of handling it, the respect for it, and not the sort of a fear of it. The cooking, same way. Today there was a big complaint about the way people cook here. And in the discussion then I reached a conclusion that the mother cooks that way. So what mothers says, all right, she … the child doesn’t sit in the TV room if mother is cooking, in Indian homes. Is the child is in the TV room? No, is with the mother.

The mother says, “All right. Now what you do, we’ll cut some vegetables. I’m cutting. Now you’d better do it. Now whatever is left out, which is not to be used for cooking, we’ll have to put it in this thing. Now, this has to go into the wastepaper basket.”

And Indian kitchen is all the time clean, spic and span, every minute. Every room is spic and span. House. Outside, what can we do? It’s the government, the management nonsense. I mean the people here think they’re very clean; I think they are not, only the government is. The clothes are hanging here – this, that. In Indian homes, even in the poorest of poor you go, everything looks spic and span, clean. Because the child is told to keep it. Now the child has, say, a paper in his hand. He won’t throw it everywhere. Carry it, take it to the … How? because the mother will say, “All right, now this paper is here. Where should it go?”

All the time the mother and the child are together, or the father. All the time. Wherever. It’s not that the children can’t go to this place. Here the beginning itself is wrong. When the little child is born, you put him in another room and the parents are sleeping in another room. It’s the worse thing that you can do to a little baby. That’s how the child will become very insecure, unhappy, abnormal. In the subconscious, the child will have a very funny feelings.

After marriage, after having children the parents have to accept parenthood. They are still in the bridal dresses, or the men are still thinking they are romantic heroes going around. You are parents now! Otherwise don’t produce children. If you produce children, be parents. That doesn’t mean you should become absolutely boring type people. But, take interest in your children; keep them with you all the time; talk to them; tell them how to behave. I mean the behavior here of children is abnormally funny I find. For that, one has to blame the training. And all the freedom is to be given to children. Now the carpet is more important than child; a door is more important, wall is more important than the child. Then what happens, when the children grow up I’ve seen, when they go to somebody’s house they start using everything as if their own. In their house they are very comfortably seated. And also every way you have restrictions on children, which sometimes shocks.

Like I’ll tell you the example of My own granddaughter, she was telling Me that “Naani, I’d invited some girls for my birthday party. And you know they liked it very much. And she asked me, ‘Can I have some more?’ I was surprised. It was all Mummy had made for them, and she had such a lot inside, and she was enjoying, they were eating. So they came and asked, ‘Can I have for some more?’ They’re not beggars; they are children. They should rule all their wants. They should ask for. But then you’ll get some toys, put them, the toy is with the child. The child doesn’t know the parents. Toys, fill it up with the toys. Then by the time you go in the garage, there’s no place. All the toys are kept there, you see.

So the whole training system is wrong. You must take your child with you. You must take him out. You must show everything. Who else is going to teach them? I see a mother who is, say, a person who has done, say, M.A. in Botany, and the child doesn’t know what is a leaf and what is a flower. Involve them with yourself. You go to work, tell them what happened, “You know, today this thing happened in the work, this is what.” They are something separate from you. How can they grow? At this time, they depend on you for all their nourishment. Every time. And in that you have to teach them how to share things. But I think very little time is spent with children, which should be much more – much, much more. Continuously it should be. I mean even My girls who are – one is forty years of age, even now she comes and sleeps with Me in the morning time. She must hug Me, sleep with Me; and when I come, she cries like a little baby, what to do? I did the same with My mother. But I knew everything about My mother, and I knew so many things that she liked and what she didn’t like and what should not be done. And there’s such an attachment to the mother comes in, and father. You don’t want to lose that love.

Once My daughter asked Me, when she was in college, “I want to wear sleeveless blouses.”

I said, “Go ahead. No harm”

She said, “But why don’t You wear?”

I said, “I feel shy. I feel shy to expose My arms.”

Then she said immediately, “Then this is no criteria – because I’ve asked You, You should say ‘yes’ to me? No, that’s not good.” She, herself, corrected herself.

So first a complete integration of the children with yourself. Now, the films – they have films for children, for adolescents then I don’t know what else is there. No, all the films should be for everyone. But if you have to show filthy stuff, then you have to have it after twelve o’clock in the night. Why to see filthy stuff? Whatever you’re children cannot see, why should you see? It’s not something very mature, is it, that you want to see and the children can’t see.

So the whole shifting starts, like a mother is seeing the very mature thing is about God, is about some great Incarnation, of some philosophy. Children are also sitting. And they start asking, “What is collective consciousness?” at a very young age. “What is Chaitanya? What is Omkara?” The whole attention moves to something else. Otherwise you show them the thing for the children in that they show you this doll coming today, that doll. “Mommy, I must have that doll!” Get them the doll and be finished with them. That’s wonderful.

Bring their attention out of all these things. See these all medias, everything, are working on your children morning till evening. Now they have a doll in America which even have a birth date. And then you have to join a club, and for that club you have to pay so much, so much dollars. Then you become a member of that, and they write to you, “What is the name for the child and when was she christened, and this and that.” They are playing upon your children. And you are happy as long as children don’t trouble you, and when they trouble you in England – I don’t know in America what do they do – they kill their children. Then the children kill them. Whole thing is upside down. India it might happen if they become developed and advanced.

So we are different people; we come out of it. Now let’s start another way. Let’s not identify ourselves with that nonsense. Let’s be something extraordinary. Let’s make our children something different. That’s what is to be given to your children, not money, wealth, toys. No! Personality. Roots. You are their roots. If you are shifty like this, how do you expect your children to be all right? You have to nourish them. All right?

So first of all, the education of the child starts with the father, mother and the family – and the respect for elders. Supposing your father is there, your mother is in the house, and if you will ill treat your parents, they will ill treat you, naturally.

There is a very interesting story: There was an old lady and she had a father-in-law who was very old, and the son always used to carry his broth in a bowl made of ordinary clay. And she used to treat him like a dog, the daughter-in-law. One day that broke, and this boy fell down and it broke and he started crying. So the mother thought he’s very badly hurt the way he was crying.

He said, “No, I am not hurt, but this thing is broken.”

“So why are you crying for that? We can get another one.”

“Sure you can get another one?”

She said, “Yes.”

“You know because I was worried how will I give you food when you will be old. That’s what I was worried, that when I have to send you food, how will I manage?”

Then she understood.

How you treat others, how you behave towards others, how you live neatly, clean ways and things – that’s what children learn. Greatest thing, more than precepts, are practices. Here the husband, wife will quarrel in the presence of children, beat each other. Can you imagine? I’ve seen that. I mean if you see any film these days, it’s the quarrel between husband and wife – put this way, that way, that way, this way, this way, that way. That’s all, get fed up with it. No respect, no love, no affection. Or some sort of a destruction. Then the children, themselves, don’t want to see any picture.

You see, when My daughters were small, I would only take them to religious picture like Shri Rama’s life, this, that, and all that. So they developed a taste for that. So when they went home to My mother’s place they said, “We will not go to this picture. If there is any Ramas, Hanumanas, then we’ll go.”

So My sister said, “You see, first of all we can’t leave them alone in the house. You can’t take them to any picture, they don’t like any other picture but that of God’s pictures. So, I mean there are not so many, so what to do?”

I said, “All right, why don’t you also see with them the same?”

She said, “But there are some nice social pictures, but they don’t like it.”

So what sort of books you give them, what sort of things you talk to them – always be with them, keep them with you. That’s the best. Or even if they have to go to some school, it should be a school where there’s love, affection, good company, they talk of Sahaj Yoga, sort of a thing. I wish you could start a school of Sahaja Yoga in America. But you know how difficult it is to start anything sensible? Everybody is afraid. But if you want to start a school of nonsensical things, they’ll give you grants.

It’s very difficult, even in England – same thing, can’t start a school. If you want to start some sort of a disco, it’s very easy. Many schools are closing down in England. Actually, there was a school for sale. I wanted to buy in My own simple ideas. They said, “Mother, first think why it is closed.”

I said, “Why?”

“Because of the different rules and regulations, it is closed.”

I said, “Then, you’re great grandchildren might be able to go to that school. It will take so much time.”

So first thing I’ll say, you should look after your children. Tell them when it is wrong, you must tell them, “This is wrong, it should not be done.” Like your child doesn’t respect others, you must tell them. If he doesn’t do, if he spoils something or does something wrong to others, then you must tell him. If he doesn’t share things, you must tell, “You must share your doll. You must share this.” But when it comes to correcting him for nonsensical things, you should not. You’ll see, it will change. Then later on, of course, we have to think of school and all that, trying to do something. Let’s work it out, maybe, then we’ll take over.

Basically they should be all right. Otherwise, they come to India and slap all the teachers. What’s the use? It’s not easy. Western children are not easy, you know, to manage. Actually, then definitely they’ll be frightened of western children coming to India – rather difficult. Because you must discipline them. And the main thing is, they should like the discipline, they should want the discipline. That’s how you should be. This stupid idea of freedom, means license, should go out. They should like it.

I remember My parents, the way they disciplined us, we would like it. Any child would remember that, “Oh my father, very particular.” But here they’ll call a twelve-year-old son – I know a friend of ours, such a shocking story! The lady come to -friend means in the official way. She came to London and she said, “Have you seen the pubs?”

I said, “No.”

“Wonderful, interesting pubs in London.”

I said, “Really?”

She had a list of them. She said, “The best is this one.”

I said, “What is so special?”

“It’s called as the Hermit’s Pub.”

“So what is great?”

“You see, a man died in this place, and people did not know for months together. Then the smell started coming out, so they came in, took him away and buried him. But all the cobwebs and all the smell is still retained. And that’s the most expensive pub in London.”

I said, “Oh God. What’s this going on?”

This lady said, “You know, we are very free with our children. We allow them to do what they like.” And she had two sons, I think – one was twelve-year-old and one was eleven-year-old. And these husband, wife were sleeping upstairs, in America. These two children were having a party, and the father had given them alcohol, beer, all open drink. “Oh, enjoy, we are one!”

And these children of that age group started drinking, and then I don’t know what happened to them, they put fire to some alcohol and the whole house was burnt. One child ran out, eleven-year-old. The mother, father, one son all died and so many children.

This is no freedom. You have to teach your children discretion; you have to teach them. This is what one has to learn. So I think before starting a school for children, let us start a school for parents. What do you say?

All right. What is next?

Ursula: Shri Mataji, You had suggested that we can try many tricks, or different tricks for approaching seekers to find our brothers and sisters. And in Australia, when someone has …

Shri Mataji: No, no, no. I can’t hear you. Just come here. Yes, Ursula. What is it?

Ursula: You had suggested that we could try many tricks to find our brothers and sisters, and different ways and approaches. And in Australia, each idea seems to be … they’re so enthusiastic and they, they support the idea. And this is, I don’t know if it’s just my feeling, but there’s a feeling here that when there’s a suggestion or an idea we’re very “Oh, no.” One person may say, “Yes, good idea.” Another person may say “No, no.” And then you don’t want to do anything wrong, so you just don’t do anything, you just wait. And then nothing happens.

Shri Mataji: Among Sahaj Yogis, you mean to say?

Ursula: Among Sahaj Yogis.

Shri Mataji: See, it comes from the individualistic attitude about ourselves. I mean anything you tell them, they cannot live collectively, that we know in the West.

I know what I have to go through when we have to organize their programs with three hundred people coming, this and that. But … this individualism is so much, like every bathroom has a different tap. You’d better ask somebody, otherwise you’ll land up into difficulties. Even the ties have to be different; everything has to be different.

Now, if there’s something fundamental, then you can ask your leader. But if it is something mundane, all right. You want blue color? I have blue. You want red? Have red. Like that you can solve your problem. If it is something fundamental, then you should ask your leader. But if it is something which is not fundamental, which is very simple, let them have their own way, then gradually they’ll grow into it.

Because this is the basic problem of this country is. So-called individualism makes them feel that, “Oh, this mine. I’ll do it the way I like.” Now say a motor car has a different handle. Now a person who’s sitting inside must know what sort of a handle it is. Tomorrow something happens, you can’t even open it.

Otherwise, they’re not at all individualistic, I’ll tell you how. Like in India, supposing I’m wearing this sari. Maybe there’s another sari like that. If another lady’s wearing the same sari, she’ll go and change and come back. She won’t wear the same sari. But, here when fashion, if somebody’s … now that our Princess of Wales has this kind of a hairstyle, all English girl’s have the same hairstyle. You don’t know from one to another. So what is so individual about them? If some fashion starts, now this is the fashion, very fashionable. What is fashionable? Is to cut your hair this way and make a punk. So everybody is a punk. Suddenly you find Sahaja Yogis walking as punks, you want to know who is who. So what is the individual character there? Where is the individuality? On principles you should be individuals – on principles, and not on artificial things.

Now this one has a principle. Supposing I’m wearing this sari. It’s made by hand, it’s one design by one person. So I’m giving importance to one person. Now he might have made two or three or four at the most. Now if somebody repeats the same sari, that means I have not encouraged that man so much. Like you can have the same sari made out of a, say, machine. Then you’ll start, “All right have ten saris like this, twenty saris like this, all made by machines.” But here, because we want to have a sari separate, it has to be made with hand. In principle, see? How it helps!

This is what it is. In principle you should be collective; in principle you should be individualistic. In Sahaja Yoga we don’t want you dressed up the same way. I mean I don’t want Americans to go about like something Chinese. Let us have our own dress, dress up the way we like, everything. That’s all right. It’s nothing important. But in principle, we have to be the same. One principle nourishes the tree – the sap. It has many flowers, fruits. It has many leaves, it’s all right – outside. So in principle you have to be collective. All right?

For mundane things, why to fight? But in any case, somebody who is an elder, who knows better, who’s wiser – listen to that person. We always have an awe, and a respect for elders. Like I see, thank God, you have now Sherayu, supposing – take one case, individual case. She’s come all the way from India, now she’s staying. She knows quite a lot about pujas, things like that. She knows how to do many things. You should be prepared to know from her. Otherwise sometimes it’s very embarrassing the way things happen. Now she’s here, she can teach you. There’s nothing wrong in learning. She has learned many things from you. But there’s no respect, I think sometimes, for her, at all. She’s an auntie somewhere sitting on the shelf. No, she’s here for a purpose, one should learn, respect. But that doesn’t mean you be her slave or anything, but you gain something out of her. Another person who comes here should learn. Like from Americans, we have to learn a lot. Tell Me what.

Yogini: I don’t think we’re doing much about communication.

Shri Mataji: The communication is not there because of individualism. But, that’s not so. There’s no individualism at all, because I’ve seen, once the fashion starts, everybody looks the same. The other day I came, I saw ladies looking like men with muscles like this, walking like that. I said, “What sort of creature is this?” One came, two came, three came, five came, ten came.

“What’s this going on?” I didn’t understand. They are all walking like that, like Draculas. I said, “What is this?”

“Oh, this is fashionable.” What is fashionable? “They’re developing their muscles.”

What’s the principle?

(continued on second cassette)

That’s it. So, in such things we do not argue. Means in stupidity we don’t argue, but in sensible things we argue. In sensible things – we have to understand what is sensible. After all, we are realized souls; we are not like other people. We must understand what is good. When I say something, you agree. I don’t know how. You like it. I may say something also which may not be so palatable, but you like it. See, think must have it, it’s a medicine. In the same way, one should see to things which you may not like so much, because maybe you’re conditioned, but see to the sense of it, the common sense, the balance. You can understand, and you have something very great called vibrations. But even that also, I have seen, horrible things they do.

Some people went – husband, wife – went to stay with some lady because her husband had gone to India. Threw all her furniture out, all her carpets out, everything out.

I said, “Why did you do it?”

“Very bad vibrations.”

I said, “Really? Now will you please pay for all that – for the bad vibrations.” I mean anybody else’s things, who are you to decide good or bad vibrations? You look after your own vibrations.

So they also sometimes use the vibrations just to, sort of, express their ego. So let us try on ourselves, everyone, “Am I doing it just for ego’s sake? Am I quarreling because of ego? Am I saying ‘no’ for ego?” As far as possible, try to concede. You’ll feel much better. You’ll learn much more. I mean, I’ve learned so many things since I’ve been abroad, I mean, I didn’t know so many things. I don’t know even now. For example, I didn’t know how to operate a TV. Even now, I don’t know much about it. Really. I didn’t know how to operate a telephone of a particular type. So, I had to learn. I had to learn how to book a ticket, which I don’t do even now, but still I have to learn. So many things I have to learn, and whatever I can learn I would like to learn. Cooking I know, but I never knew how to wash utensils because in India they, I mean normally you have servants. But I learned it – your style with Ivory liquid. I had to learn. There’s nothing wrong in it. So one must try to learn, than to argue.

Ursula: In Australia, the enthusiasm and the joy that they have! And if someone has an idea for something, there’s just so much support for that, that they all go out to help each other. It becomes a very big, collective effort.

Shri Mataji: But Australia, Australians are very wise people. They understand wisdom. That’s what we have to be – wise, very wise. And if any Indian is there, they try to ask, “how do you do?” Particular things, on principle as a puja things, they’ll ask an Indian. But booking the seats, never ask Indians. They’re no good. Cooking, kitchen, cleaning – very good. Maintaining house – all right. Looking after children – all right. But driving a car, an Indian? Save Me. I would never sit in a car which is driven by an Indian in America. Because crazy the way people drive. You know this fellow won’t know how to do it.

So it is just wisdom and discretion one has to use, and not to fight. It happens, I’m happy, I’ve seen this in Australians. They were declared as people of – people who were criminals, the children of criminals. They are so sensible.

Discretion must be used, that’s important. It’s sad. But it will be all right, I’m sure one day. Never argue on things which doesn’t involve any principle. It’s the best way; it’s the happiest. Even now, you see today it was so warm. I wanted to wear a cotton sari, you see. But My children said, “No, must wear this one.” I said, “Wore it.” I was perspiring, this, that. All right, doesn’t matter, what’s the difference, perspire for a while. Came out with this sari. They liked it, so it’s all right to please them. Nothing, no principle is involved in it. When you think about others, then you will get rid of this problem.

But so many people try to preach also Sahaja Yoga to others. They should not. It’s a very serious thing, they will start teaching. It need not be taught that way – then people don’t like it. But your own behavior, in your own character, in your own responses, people should see “this person is like this.” And they should imbibe it. That’s the point, I think what we lack is discretion. If you are discrete, you will learn very fast, it’s not difficult.

Ursula: We still can be very judgmental of newcomers. If they have particular problems, we get all … it’s hard.

Shri Mataji: The newcomers. Agreed. With the newcomers, you should not be harsh with them. You should be kind, you should try to understand this thing. But, you know still, I tell you sometimes … The other day I had some boy who had come, all right? He asked Me at least twenty questions. I answered them properly – this thing, that thing. And he got so pampered, he sent Me news, “I don’t want to become Sahaja Yogi.”

I mean, but for Me, anybody would box his nose, for such an answer. You see, you have to take it in a stride. Situation is so bad; situation is very bad. Must understand we are on a warpath, whatever is possible, we can do it. But every country has improved so much. So what’s wrong here is: people don’t want to learn; people don’t want to understand the sacrifice of giving up your ego, giving up your decisions. “All right, let’s see, let’s see.” Like that. That’s why it doesn’t grow.

Now one thing I must say, in America if you have My program, hall will be full, I won’t be able to enter in, and when I get out, I’ll be pushed out like a piston. I’ve seen it. It’s the people are so much I don’t know how to get in and how get out. It’s terrible! And when I go away, they just disappear. Because, there’s something lacking – of course, I agree – among Sahaj Yogis, that we have to see. After all, nothing special about Me as such, I mean, they just see My photograph and come to the programs and sit down there. Even if I have three days program, it goes on increasing. While there are Sahaj Yogis who may not even be able to have one person in the hall. What’s the reason? They don’t know Me. All right? So there’s something lacking in us, also, when the newcomers come in, how we treat them, we talk to them, how we appeal to them. Once in awhile of course there will be somebody who will rude. Doesn’t matter. But try to be nice to them. On the whole I think the newcomers – I won’t tell all these things to a newcomer if he comes. If a newcomer come I say, “Oh, very nice. How are you? This, that.” You see? Settle him down.

Any other fundamental differences you find, you can ask Me – fundamental.

Yogi: I’m just little curious about, well, future little bit. Are You going to manifest Yourself in some different way as Shri Kalki? Or are You going to sort of let the change happen a little more gradually?

Shri Mataji: Direct questions. You tell Me, what should I do? Tell Me, what should I do? Any other form won’t be suitable. Try any other form. Take Shri Krishna’s form, You have to take the Sudarshana and just kill off all those who don’t believe in Sahaja Yoga. Is it all right? Take form of Jesus Christ. Hang Yourself nicely, finish with everyone. Then think of Kalki. Finish everything. After doing all this work, beautifully creating all this world so beautifully, don’t you think One should manage it, try to manage it, as far as possible? That’s My style.

Which one would you prefer?

(Laughter from the yogis)

Shri Mataji: What did he say?

Voice from the crowd: He likes Your style, Mother.

Shri Mataji: Aha! That’s it. You see that’s what – nothing else. Of course you should know that Kalki’s acting, everybody’s acting, everybody’s acting but is on a low key, as they say. One has to be very careful; it’s a very delicate job. So many are lost. These gurus have taken over so many. It’s a very, very delicate job. All right? But if necessary, I can do something.

Now, any other question? What time is your dinner? Any other question?

Yogi: Mother, it seems that many of us here don’t really know about the Hamsa Chakra, in terms of understanding how it relates to the Vishuddhi and what we can do to strengthen our Vishuddhi.

Shri Mataji: Hamsa Chakra stands between Vishuddhi and Agnya as you can see clearly positioned like that. But from Vishuddhi there are many nerves which pass through Hamsas and end up here. They don’t all go to the brain. Or we can say that at this time, at this point, all our reactions which are what you call reflex reactions finish off. So supposing now I get some dirty smell, I’ll close My nose like that, or if I can’t hear, I’ll just pull My ears like this; or if I see something dirty, or if I see something jarring, My eyes will close automatically. If somebody tries to put a pin through Me, immediately I’ll … spontaneously, it’s all built in, within My system, and your system, too, that you react with reflex action.

Same thing may not happen to animals. Animals are different. Some animals have certain reflex actions, some have some reflex actions; but we are different and our reflex actions we are all practically just the same. There’s not much individuality. There isn’t much difference in our reflex actions. At the most, with conditioning somebody might say “Yah!”, somebody might say “Oh!”, somebody might say something – that’s different. But the reflex actions are just the same.

So up to the reflex action, we don’t have to use discretion. Then starts our discretion part. Discretion starts when we are using these two nadis which meet here, without going to the Agnya. So when these two nadis meet here, what happens we start seeing through our experiences. First would be a reflex action, automatic reflex action. The second is when, supposing a child, if you tell the child, “Now this is hot; don’t put your hand there”, he won’t listen. Put the child. With experience, he will develop reflex actions, the conditionings of it. So thus reflexes are built in within us. Also, they are built in within us with, we should say, with other conditionings like, you see, in a country supposing there’s racialism, or in a country like ours there’s a caste system. Then person react according to what they have learned from childhood. All these conditionings could be of the present day, when you are born. You could have been, yourself, born in last life in, say, Africa. Today you are born with a white skin, so you have started sort of calling that African you have become.

All these conditionings can be built in, into your Hamsa Chakra, which have come from your training of the mind, you can say the experiences of the mind, the experiences of the society, of your knowledge, of your education, the way you’re conditioned can be built in here – in the Hamsa Chakra. And it reacts to things which has no meaning. If you were … “I hate someone!” Why? Because that person wears a blue jean, or something; or you can say a green shirt. Now this is built in your mind. Or sometimes this falling in love, also, comes from the same kind of a conditioning. Supposing you had met somebody who had, say, blue eyes and was kind to you. So you have fascination for a person who has blue eyes. There’s no pure idea about beauty; there’s no pure idea of happiness; there’s no pure idea of esthetics. All is condition. For some people, this is beautiful; for somebody, this is not beautiful.

So this is the place where these interchanges take place between both the nadis, and here the Hamsa lies outside the path of Kundalini. They sort of come out here, out of the path of Kundalini. It’s very surprising. When the Kundalini moves, She goes from Vishuddhi direct to Agnya. Now, how can we improve our Hamsa then? It’s a big problem, because if our Hamsa is sick, is over-conditioned. The Kundalini cannot work on it; it just gives up. Now, so for Hamsa we use all these physical things. Like I said, put the ghee in the nose. Keep it in a way that it is nourished properly. Because Kundalini, if it tries to too much attack the Hamsa, it will have problem. Problem because, as it is most of our time we spend in such a manner that your Hamsa things become – what you call the epithelial cells, the linings – become dried out. When the Kundalini rises, She may try to create a problem more for that dryness – maybe. So it is kept out, but it has an effect in the sense that even if there is a light outside, it can fall inside.

So it’s not the Kundalini directly that affects your Hamsa. It is like when the Kundalini awakens, you yourself see now that a person is, whether he is fair complexion or dark complexion, he is a human being. You reason it out and Hamsa clears up. Then you see yourself that, “Oh, I’m very egoistical.” You start seeing yourself through your Agnya, start seeing that, “I’m so conditioned.” So you reason it out, and that’s how you correct your conditionings. This is what is Hamsa Chakra.

So Hamsa Chakra cannot be done if just you’re a realized soul, but is an effect, is the symptom of your Kundalini awakening. Some people think that you develop discretion just as the Kundalini rises. Is a wrong idea. No. That has to be deliberately seen that you build up that discretion within yourself. But once it is built – for example My discretion is absolute, I just know what it is. You see My conditioning here is absolute, is one with the Kundalini, one with reality. But for human beings, it has to be reflected by understanding. Like a child who touches something hot, then it is hot. Now this is hot, because it’s heated up.

So you see a person is catching on the right heart. Right. He’s catching on the right heart means he’s got a right heart, and he is suffering from such and such thing. You have to see it yourself.

Now if you tell the person, “Are you suffering from, say, asthma?”

He says, “Yes, how do you know?”

“I know it because I’ve learned it through my finger which was burning, that’s why I know it is.”

But supposing somebody has an asthma and in that plays the part your Kundalini, you will get asthma immediately. You see the point? The conditioning cannot come to us unless and until it passes through, or sieves through, our reasoning and understanding. Are you understand the point? It cannot work. The reason is, it filters your collective consciousness. Otherwise, you go near a person who has AIDS, and you become collectively conscious that he has AIDS. And if you imbibe all that into you as a conditioning, you will get it. But you are separated. Like person who reads a – there’s a very nice story about this, Jerome has written. Like one man, he went and read Materia Medica.

Went and told doctor that, “Doctor I have all the diseases except for one, which is housewife’s knee.

He said, “How is it you haven’t got it?”

“Because I am not a housewife.”

So he got conditioned into all the diseases. That’s how many people get diseases, but thank God there’s a filter. If somebody has a disease, you don’t get it, because you can filter it.

But Hamsa Chakra could be affected by baddhas. That’s one problem, if some baddha passes through the nose, you might; some viruses pass through the nose, you might. Affected, means it can get sick. But one must understand the discrimination between the two. Say there’s a virus infection outside. It can pass into your Hamsa Chakra and can give you a problem of sinus, this, that – physical. But you won’t become like a person who has given you virus infection. So there is a filter. But supposing there’s a person who is very hectic. And you come in contact with that person – he’s very hectic, so your Swadisthana can take over. You can become hectic with that person. Being with that person, you can become hectic. But as far as the Hamsa is concerned, with anybody you live, your Hamsa doesn’t carry the complete impact of that because there’s filter.

So now, if you have to develop the discretion, you have to learn, you have to understand. It doesn’t come automatically. But with children who are born realized, their Hamsa is so developed that they know it – what is right, what is wrong. Because their Hamsa is so much trained that way, they don’t have to use much understanding. But those who are now growing up, have become now Sahaja Yogis have to know through their own experiences their Hamsa. It’s a filter, also. But for a child, he knows what is right, what is wrong, because his Hamsa is developed. In India, when the child is born he’s massaged nicely. Oiling is the best way to have a good Hamsa. Oil his hair, oil his body, put some drops in the nose, everything. They try in the ear, in the nose and that’s how they build up.

So what I have to say that physically you should have pure Hamsa Chakra by using ghee and all that, and mentally you should use it by learning things, in experience – what to do, how to do it, how to work it out, how to establish. That is how Hamsa Chakra grows and makes you discrete. That’s why tradition is very important. Tradition gives you the growth of the Hamsa Chakra and then you go on discarding whatever is wrong out of that tradition. Then again, you keep whatever is good. Give it to your children, to your children, to your children. So the discretion comes to a person who is traditionally built up better than a person who has no traditions.

Now, for example, this morning I was discussing that people take, fill the wash basin and wash their face, in the West. In India, we cannot conceive of it, cannot even think of it. I mean, people don’t know it can be done. Because in traditional way it has come out that if you’re washing your face and again the water goes into there, then all the dirt is in it, again you’re using the same water. So you cannot have complete. So always use running water. Traditionally we’ve learned it. So it’s so much in our heads, in our discretion, that we cannot even think of such a thing.

Simple thing that Mooladhara must be cleaned and washed. Any Indian, you take it, he knows that is, because they must have had some problems before. Whether he is in the North, he’s in the South, East or West – ask him. Auspiciousness is another thing. It’s so much imbibed in the tradition. But if you have a tradition, say, of doing things which are absurd – also you can have traditions like that. Like very primitive people have all kinds of traditions which are very absurd. I was told that if you go to Ladakh what they do, somebody dies, they keep the hand of the dead person in the house all the time like that. They think that that helps. With tradition which is wrong by discarding that, they will understand that is wrong. So the more traditional you are, the ancient you are, you learn many things.

Like we have seen English are, in a way, very traditional, so they – supposing theirs a lady coming down and you are coming with the lady, then the man will be in front – automatically. He’ll just move. But if she’s going up, then man will follow her. Just happens, automatically, because traditionally they have learned that if you’re going down, the lady may fall or something, so we should be in front. So what you call as the traditional habits of person gives you this Hamsa. And these habits are built better and better with trial and error methods. And that’s how you develop it. Now for people who are Sahaj Yogis, it’s much easy to imbibe them, because if you see something, “Yes, that’s wrong – should not do it – finished.” But you should be so clear cut about it as you determine. It works out. You’re Hamsa will be all right. But you tell them ten times, still they do the same thing. Then that means their Hamsa is not willing to accept. But you must nourish it, you must look after it, you must – as I said also this kajal is also very good for Hamsa Chakra. All kajal and the oil in the nose, ears – it’s very good. All acts for that. Even, say, talking to another person, to talk discretely is to say something which doesn’t lose its power of affecting that person. Like if you say something very harsh, then you should know how to neutralize it so that he retains that into himself.

All these discretions only come also by tradition. When you find something that is futile, in a collective way in a tradition drops out. So the blessings of the tradition is great, but greater are the blessings of your Spirit. And the blessings of the Spirit are such that through your vibrations, immediately you know this is wrong. But you have to be honest about it and you just give up. You want to ascend, you want to improve your vibrations, so for that whatever is needed you will do.

H.H. Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi