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Conversation with yogis, Pune (India), 1 December 1987.
So whatever we condition ourselves, becomes a kind of our subconscious. That we have been doing, say for example, all the time something, so it becomes our conditioning, because we have been doing it repeatedly for so many times it becomes a conditioning and is also, what you call, is the habit. And also the habits are also given by our subconscious. So this is the nearest to the present, you can say. Even sitting down here, supposing I take something which is very intoxicating and immediately be thrown into such a depth of subconscious, into the collective subconscious area, that immediately something will grip Me from collective subconscious and next time I must have it.
That’s what happens with drugs. As soon as you take drugs once, you’ve had it. It throws you so much to that area that you just get under the grip of something, what we call as the bhoots. And then you have to…
Now, in the collective subconscious, what we have got? In the evolutionary process there were many material things which came on this earth and were thrown into this collective subconscious as useless. Like in the modern times you are having now plastics. In the same way we had many things like that which were thrown out of the evolutionary process on one side kept. Then we have got another thing, what we call the plants. Like certain plants that we have, say tobacco. Now this kind of plants which are now, we are going to throw them out of circulations. In the same way there were many other things abused and were thrown out of circulation, they are also there.
Then after the plants we got little animals, micro animals, which were also thrown out and were kept in the collective subconscious. Then on top of that we have human beings or first we can say animals, bigger animals. They also, so many went out of circulation, they also are still there. Now after that comes the animals and then some of them that are supposed to be sophisticated but are ambitious, are still desirous of.
There is such a build-up of this subconscious. So all the problems that come to us, what we call ecological, come from this collective subconscious. And you know ‘pathos’ means ‘sufferings’, so whatever brings you sufferings in the left side. Now we can say that these are actually, not necessarily proteins, there are some which are not even proteins, but they also grew. They’re called … These proteins of course they, the fungus and all that is the protein one.
And now we also have beyond that some animals…. The Egyptians had that some animals that dog of the Egyptians … or something. The French are very good at that. They took to Egyptians because they drink so much, take all kinds of cheese and these all kinds of rotten things and then they take to Egyptians naturally because they are on left side. So they like this very much, so this comes from Egyptians, this past.
So now we have got so many types of things there already stored in our being. All these things are there. It’s a very difficult thing. I mean, nothing is destroyed in this world. Nothing is destroyed. But it is placed in different, different compartments. And we are not supposed to enter into that compartment which is not our own. And what happens, is we start moving towards that. And many nonsensical things we do.
Ultimately, there are human beings also, who are dead and who are there. Many people who drink too much, may not be having in from their own problems. Must be some sort of a bhoot got into them so must be the bhoot is drinking. Also, these people as you see, these horrible people … and all that. Their innocence is challenged. It all comes from that, they keep themselves to that extent that they find some sort of a bhoot sitting on them.
But all these criminals who do all these kinds of acts are mostly supra conscious. They are more supra conscious people who can act. Now, the people who suffer are left sided, are the people who suffer but they are very sly, very sly and it is very difficult to catch them. They’re extremely sly. They find out ways and methods. We can say in England these days you can see the situation of Sahaja Yogis is the same. Very sly people. Tell them to go this way. Tell them to do this way. Impossible. The situation is impossible sometimes. But then they suffer and then they understand.
But the other side are the aggressive ones. And they aggress on others. They trouble others and torture others. This kind can also meet with some sort of a bhoot from the supra conscious and can become really aggressive like supposing some person gets drunk. So he might become a very sober person, very nice, very sweet talking and another day he might start beating people, beating the wife, beating the children. In depends on what sort of a bhoot, one gets in.
But these viruses which are proteins and non-proteins also and so microscopic that you can’t understand them, so how do we try to clone them? Cloning is the process, we call it. That to attach them to something like enzymes. Enzymes, some enzymes can look after some kind of viruses. Not all enzymes can look after those viruses. There are so many of them , so many of these viruses that to find out the exact enzyme, for the exact one, is very difficult. And people nowadays are experimenting frantically on this, the cloning of the enzymes with these. Now, the antibodies do the same thing, they are like enzymes, only that they try to emit enzymes which clone and which remove the viruses.
Sometimes the antibodies can be destroyed at the very beginning; like in the case of these people who are harm AIDS, because Ganesha himself is finished. And Ganesha finished, means Ganapati, means he is the master of all the ganas, means all the antibodies within us and if you have finished all the antibodies already, I mean in the sense, if their leader is finished, means they are finished. So how can you have any immunities?
So all this secretive, nonsensical, absolutely sly stuff that people go into is because they are attached to the left-side. They get into left-side, work it out that way and then they suffer.
Now for these new activities. Now this new activity of cloning they are having lots of research going on. People are trying to see, rats, you see, they put in viruses, then take out the enzymes which fight them, do this, do that, you see because they think, supposing you get a virus in a rat and the rats Ganesha is all right. So that way it will emit more enzymes to fight this disease which will fight this virus. So then they … [have] micro enzymes available, so then they will prepare more enzymes, like that.
But the cloning is the problem. How to clone them? How to find exactly which is suitable for which one? So this the […] we are going about nowadays in the world, that they have all kinds of laboratories, all kinds of research work, with one object: that they should find out the cloning. And it’s like treating a leaf with different, different medicines to see which works out.
But the another one is Sahaja Yoga. In Sahaja Yoga, how do you avoid all this, that you take out your attentions from the collective subconscious, from the past subconscious, from the present subconscious, from the today subconscious, into the centre. But for that, one has to be determined person. His will power must be strong. But all left sided people have a very, very poor will power. You do what you like, but they’ll go back to their habits. You try your level best. Slowly, slyly you see. All these things they do not understand, they’ll tell it to the camp of their enemies. As a matter of fact, they’ll go into such problems there, that they will suffer and suffer and suffer.
So now, the theory comes out of human intelligence, that we must suffer. But there are no solutions. So theories like this: that we must suffer and suffering is godly. Like you must have heard about the Jews and the Christians how they are propositioned for sufferings. And they all become left-sided. But then they are under the grip of the bhoots and then they become right-sided. So you will see that the Jews now, who suffered so much at the hands of Hitler, have become extremely aggressive. And the Christians who said they will suffer, everyone has suffered because of them, all over the world. Wherever they have gone with the Bible and the gun in their hands, you see that’s what they have done. So both ways, to say suffer is make others suffer.
So also, camouflage comes in, because they’re very sly, cunning, people creating problems. They can’t see two people happy, enjoying.
All these things add up to your vulnerability. You get into some sort of a… Now horrible diseases are there. The Mooladhara is under attack. AIDS, all the muscular disabilities, you don’t get temperature.
From the left-side you will never get temperature. Never you will never get a heart-attack, never. You may keep a machine in the lunatic asylum, but they never get heart attack, unless and until some sort of a shock comes, some accident or something. They never get temperatures. In cancer cases you don’t get temperature.
And so when the Mooladhara is gone off, the first thing that happens is that you get a disease which you know as AIDS, but also you get all the diseases which have something so do with the muscles. The muscles start becoming weak and this and that.
Recently in London, we cured a person of that kind who could not walk or sit very nicely, who could not sit on the ground. But when he got cured sitting there for about fifteen minutes with hand towards me, left hand and a light here, he just jumped. But again he becomes… They are moving around. So again he couldn’t lift his leg. He jumped, all right.
So now, one has to understand that we have to be very particular about your Mooladhara also. Supposing somebody has a bhootish wife and he has relations with her he might get it. If you have a bhootish husband, you might get it. And all kinds of things there are, that one can get. This kind of horrible thing.
Now you go ahead with it. Now, people have taken, say, some other habit. Say, alcohol. Alcohol is, as you know has different variations depending on the habits of the person. If a person is a very quiet type normally with alcohol he becomes very angry agitated. But if he is a very angry type he becomes… It’s very funny. Because they move from one end to another end.
And that is how alcohol is very dangerous, because it finishes off your liver, it finishes off your awareness, it makes you very clumsy, your attention is fuzzy… And ultimately, you will be surprised that all these relationships that Freud has been talking about and the misuse of that has come out of that.
Because alcohol makes a person in such a way that he loses all his dharma. They have no dharma. They don’t understand a mother, they don’t understand a sister. He just becomes an abandoned person. And when he becomes abandoned he becomes shameless. When he becomes shameless, then he says: “What’s wrong”, goes ahead with it and starts destroying himself. That is how the society we call as decadent. But this kind of society is becoming destroyed, gradually, because there is no dharma. No dharma. And they just drink and they don’t know anything about what they’re doing. There’s no sense in their heads. That’s why, very much… Absolutely. No doubt… drugs.
Now, drugs hit you on the left Nabhi or on the right. The ones which hit you on the left Nabhi can take you very deep, down. And you can be sometimes so aggressive, despite the fact you have taken a left sided one. It is surprising. Just, you see, suddenly you get stunned. That person can become mad, anything can happen to a person who takes drugs. One can become completely…
I have also seen, like Rajneesh disciples are all mad, are absolutely mad. They are not in their senses. We have been only able to cure one person, also that, to some extent. I would say … 100 % alright, you can even say, now he’s 75% alright.
So you can imagine how much important it is, Mooladhara. The amount of attention we pay to our Mooladhara, you see, is really maddening. There is no need.
In married life in England for first one year is…, second year you apply for divorce; the third year, have it. There is no sustaining, sensible, gradual understanding …. Then they ultimately give up. The wife sits on the head of the man or the man sits on the head of the wife…. they are never parallel, they are never together, you can see there’s no rapport.
So all these perverted ideas have come to us from the collective subconscious of doing all kinds of perverted things. The way people are behaving, it is for us, we can’t conceive of it.
I mean, somebody use telling me the other day that it was regarded as something great, very religious, that the women went and the sisters and the mothers slept in the open and got sick and died, so they become saints. Now anybody can. In France. In France. And it was a very common thing.
Even in Rome, I mean, the way the people are asked to suffer is like …. Everywhere. And these stupid ideas are coming from the left side, which wants you to suffer. And you make a martyrdom out of that suffering.
And the whole pathological… you find that all these different, different viruses are there in us. And any time we take to… we don’t have to take to these horrible viruses. But, the trouble is human beings don’t have any [willpower]… They get very easily tempted and they want to do something that is …. “Let’s see what happens” …. If you have your own dignity, and you have your own will power you will never, never succumb to them, because you know these are all very dangerous things which you shouldn’t do.
And if I say: “All right, you don’t take this cheese”, still Sahaja Yogis will say: “No, but I like it.”
Why am I saying, you don’t take it? I then say, all right. But it should be just thrown away. Because you know what it is, it’s a virus. Then you are inviting a trouble into yourself. If you want to invite some trouble into yourself, then go ahead. But then you can’t be called Sahaja yogi.
So the only thing that is wrong in the whole thing, is that: “What’s wrong?” First of all they are absolutely ignorant people and secondly: “What’s wrong?” …. You have no business to destroy yourself. God has created you, you have not created yourself. Who are you to destroy yourself? You have no business. And this is what is to be understood by Sahaja Yogis that you have no business to destroy yourselves and you have no business to spoil yourselves.
You have to understand that now you are … If you understand really, in the way that I call it part and parcel, what is a Bodha – that is, it becomes a part and parcel of your nervous system, that you are a yogi then no virus can attack. What is virus? Nothing can attack you, nothing can trouble you. And even if they attack, it will come for a short time and will go away. Even if they attack, it will come and go away. But it will not stay in your body. It cannot stay long …
Now, any questions?
Q: ….. dreams …
A: If you see me, then you are going into Sushumna. But if you see all kinds of things about yourself!
Then suddenly he is attacked by something there. He just forgets. And then when he comes back he says: “Oh, how could I do that?” But that time, you are not yourself.
Either it can happen with ego: “I will do this, I will do that”.
And the most important thing is whatever has to be in your heart. The most important thing is always in your heart. So, if you establish it in your heart, all the time, that is the establishment. Everybody you see, still giving problems, this problem, that problem. It is very simple: just put it in your heart. So simple.
If you say: “Mother, come in my heart”, I am there. Say: “Come in my head”, I am there. I am at your service. These Gods have done that.
But this ego business! Where you separate yourself from your Mother, start thinking: “Oh, I’ve been coming to You, I’ve been worshipping You, I’m this.” What is it? You are part and parcel of one body. Can one finger become bigger than another? One can…
So this kind of ego business is also there that: “I am a superior one, I want to be a better Sahaja Yogi than others.”
A better Sahaja yogi is all right, but to be better than others: “I am something great. I know everything. I know this thing”, that is very common, also.
The other day, only, I was telling … himself. You see, he doesn’t allow anybody to speak to me. Anybody speaks… I feel so embarrassed, I told him not to do it. I know how to say. Anybody speaks anything, he will just …. So … not to do. But that’s all right sided. Of course he’s the leader, all right, but I would to speak to all of them. If somebody is rude or funny, then it’s all right. But if someone is just talking to Me you shouldn’t just stop him, I mean, you are not the only mouthpiece. They are all my children.
And this leadership is also, what? Is a myth. Everyone has some problems like that … but once you become leader you have to become very careful … very big temper .
H.H. Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi