Talk about music, photographs and false gurus

Gleissenfeld (Austria)

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Talk with yogis. Gleissenfeld (Austria), 10 June 1988.

Shri Mataji: There are so many following you, they are coming now. Beautiful!

So they have to sit down. Sorry we were late. In the ashram we were solving all the problems also.

Yogini: Shri Mataji, do You want to have a cup of tea?

Shri Mataji: What?

Yogini: A cup of tea?

Yogi: Maybe first lunch, Shri Mataji?

Shri Mataji: All right.

(to a baby) You see? (Shri Mataji snaps Her fingers and laughs) Hello? Hello. Once. He recognizes. Hello! Look at that. Hello.

How to get lotuses here?

Yogi: They grow here, Shri Mataji.

Shri Mataji: Outside or inside the house?

Yogi: In the lake.

Shri Mataji: They are growing outside?

Yogis: Yes, yes. In the pool. They are growing here in the garden, Shri Mataji. In the garden, Shri Mataji.

Shri Mataji: Really?

Yogini: We have about twenty-five [inaudible]. So beautiful.

Shri Mataji: And they grow – they need sunshine all the time. But in the cold also?

Yogi: It is close here, Shri Mataji. In a lake? A pond is that.

Shri Mataji: You have got a – I mean – is this one tree, sort of thing, or on the pond it’s spread out, quite a lot of these?

Yogini: It’s in the water. It’s spread out, quite a lot.

Yogi: I think it is self-made, Shri Mataji. Like a pond. Are these lotuses or sea roses?

Yogis: Sea roses.

Yogi: Sea roses, Shri Mataji. Sea roses. Sea roses.

Shri Mataji: Sea roses?

Yogi: Sea roses they are called.

Shri Mataji: But they are lotuses.

Yogi: Look’s like. Beautiful ones.

Shri Mataji: Beautiful!

Yogi: They grow the same way in the water.

Shri Mataji: Could we take it for Pratishthan?

Yogi: Yes, Shri Mataji.

Baby: [inaudible]

Shri Mataji: Look! Come along. Come along. Come along. Come along. Come along. Hello. Come along. Look at him. Come along. Come along.

Baby: [Häärkh.]

Yogi: Now he is feeling it also.

Shri Mataji: Hello? Come along! How are you? Just now you got up from your sleep? You got up from your sleep, just now?

Baby: [Haahh!]

Shri Mataji: Hello! You also want to come here? You also want to come here? Look at that.

Yogi: Yeah, he wants to go.

Shri Mataji: All right? All right! Here comes the little one. How happy [inaudible]
All right. All right. Hello. Hello. What do you need? What do you need? (Shri Mataji kisses the baby and the baby cries a little bit)
Now everybody starts laughing at him. He was quite all right. Why are you crying? No, no, no, no. See now, he is not crying. See, there is a lotus flower. See! See the lotus. See. See. How beautiful it is. See. See. See the lotus. (baby cries a little bit) Oh, ho, ho! No, no, no. You see, see, see?

Yogi: They are tired also.

Shri Mataji: He is tired. All right. He is very tired. All right. What do you need? You are tired now? You want to sleep. (baby cries loud)

No, no, no! I don’t know whether he wants a nap. Why are you crying? Get him, he doesn’t cry.
(Shri Mataji kisses the child)

Shri Mataji: When did you arrive? Earlier? What time?

Yogi: Two hours before You.

Shri Mataji: How many of you are here in this place? How many of them are here?

Yogi: It is four people living here in this place and …

Shri Mataji: How many Sahaja yogis?

Yogi: Around ten, they are spread in the area.

Shri Mataji: Really? Good.

Yogi: Ten – sometimes when the Sahaja yogis come back from Vienna, then we are fifteen.

Shri Mataji: What a nice place you have chosen here. Very nice. Such a big hall. Are you yourself – you have done it?

Yogi: Yeah, the son …

Yogi: Hannes. Hannes who is married in the States to Paula, Shri Mataji.

Shri Mataji: Oh yes, yes. He has done it.

Yogi: He is the son of that – his mother is here, the whole family is in Sahaja Yoga, Shri Mataji.

Shri Mataji: Is very good. Is it a big town?

Yogi: Small! It’s a village. But it’s close, relatively close to Wiener Neustadt. It’s a bigger town.

Shri Mataji: So then you work there?

Yogi: Some, yeah.

Shri Mataji: It’s better to be away from the madding crowd, isn’t it? It’s very nice.

(about the baby) It’s so tired. Now you’re not crying. All right. What about you all, having something?

Yogi: May we play some music, Shri Mataji?

Shri Mataji: Yeah.

Yogi: Musicians?

Another Yogi: They play with the orchestra.

Shri Mataji: They’ve been so beautifully playing, very beautifully.

Yogi: Shri Mataji, do You have some more time?

Shri Mataji: They have come in the morning here? Or they live here?

Yogi: No, no, they don’t live here. They came in the morning.

Shri Mataji: Another type of soup [inaudible] [Hindi]

Yogi: absolutely!

(Yogis perform classical European music.)

Shri Mataji: Oh, thank you! Beautiful. May God bless you! Beautiful.

Beautiful. I think Austria has the best orchestra among all the Sahaja Yoga Centers. They are very – I should say, people are very talented here.

Yogi: It’s a heritage from Mozart, Shri Mataji.

Shri Mataji: I think that’s true. Yes, must be.

This time there was a competition of boys below twenty years, and there were all kinds of children. Some were ten year old girls from [Forbing ?] to be on the piano. And one Indonesian boy was very good on the piano. He didn’t get the price, but he was very good. They had violinists, cello, everything. But imagine – that so young as that they are so good.

They don’t go to England, sometimes, from here – people to play?

Yogi: Yes, he goes around the whole world, Shri Mataji.

Shri Mataji: Really, oh! So you work with one company, or with many companies, with any one?

Yogi: It’s a symphony orchestra. With a symphony orchestra.

Shri Mataji: But it is one company orchestra or …?

Yogi: Yes. And also with a piano trio. Violin, piano and cello, also.

Shri Mataji: In India I don’t think people could have seen this instrument, cello, they could not have. Is it a very old Instrument or?

Yogi: Yes, very old.

Shri Mataji: Very old.

Yogi: About three hundred years.

Shri Mataji: Three hundred years.

Yogi: Italian.

Shri Mataji: Italian.

Yogi: From Milano.

Shri Mataji: Is it? Yes, from Milano. Actually music was very much in Italy, in the Renaissance and all that thing. But what was the time of Mozart? What year he lived?

Yogi: He died in 1791. He died in 1791.

Shri Mataji: 1700?

Yogi: He was born in 1756.

Shri Mataji: Fifty?

Yogis: Six. He was born …

Yogi: Very short life. Thirty-five years.

Yogi: Very young. He died very young.

Shri Mataji: Very young. Yeah. And this fellow Strauss?

Yogis: This was later, Shri Mataji. This was later. Hundred years later.

Shri Mataji: And Russia has very beautiful orchestras.

Yogi: They had also a very good musical year, Shri Mataji.

Shri Mataji: They gave us a concert on Strauss, you see, and also showed him in between on a screen. The concert was so beautifully done. It is such a huge, big thing. I mean, see, to them music is something – sort of a nationally event, you see. Absolutely. They – I mean I have not seen anyone – and such a respect for music as they have. Absolutely [panoramic ?] – whole thing.
You have been to Russia?

Yogi: Yes, also.

Shri Mataji: You saw that?

Yogi: Yes.

Shri Mataji: Isn’t it?

Yogi: Fantastic.

Shri Mataji: And when they have their music program – there’s also dinner, everything with it.

Even East Berlin? Have you been to East Berlin?

Yogi: East Berlin? Yes, Mother.

Shri Mataji: There they have a very huge place, a complex, for operas. And I mean, you know, eight thousand people or ten thousand people in that place. And you all can have dinner with the ticket. Such a big place it is. They are also very fond of music. I don’t know, during war everybody forgot music. How they forgot it. Can you imagine, the Germans and the Russians – so very fond of music.

(Children play and laugh loudly) Some smalls words started now. (Shri Mataji laughs)

Yogi: They are also like flowers, Shri Mataji. They grow exuberant in Your company.

Shri Mataji: Hallo, Lady. Ha, ha, ha, ha. What’s it? What’s it? What is it you are protesting about? What’s it?

Yogi: I think it’s hungry, Shri Mataji.

Shri Mataji: Hungry?

Yogi: Can I have some more? (feeds the child)

( Shri Mataji and the yogis enjoy photographs.)

Shri Mataji: He is in charge of everything. He is going to organize that side.

That’s a nice photograph. Is it from Australia? That one is from Australia, isn’t it? Done by Matthews? I think that’s the one. Marcus, do you also think it is done by that little boy Matthews? Now he is married, of course, but Fogarty.

Yogi: I don’t know, Shri Mataji.

Shri Mataji: … so that is …Yes. They call it as the Rembrandt style.

Yogi: [Hindi] …Ekadasha Rudra and some Indian scenes. Can you show them Ossi?

Yogi: Shri Mataji, we would like to show You some pictures. Ossi took fifty-one big pictures. One of them You were seeing this morning with the cross. We have beautiful pictures, Shri Mataji. One more beautiful then the other one.

Shri Mataji: That’s remarkable. Who has done all this?

Yogi: Ossi.

Shri Mataji: Who?

Yogi: Ossi.

Shri Mataji: You have done?

Yogi: Ossi, the judge. Our judge.

Shri Mataji: Beautiful. It’s beautiful.

Yogi: [Hindi]

Shri Mataji: (to a baby) Hello, how are you?

Yogini: Thank you!

Shri Mataji: It is very nice. [Hindi]

It’s wonderful.

It’s also remarkable, I tell you.

Yogi: And they were wearing those Spanish sea shell [inaudible]

Shri Mataji: Ah, this is Spanish here?

Yogi: I mean Italian [Hindi]

Yogi: Spanish Puja.

Shri Mataji: How you take the right thing on the right angle or in the right time?

Yogi: Shri Mataji.

Shri Mataji: Oh, this is tremendous.

Yogi: It’s fantastic.

Shri Mataji: This is when?

Yogi: Clear eyes. Barcelona Puja.

Shri Mataji: Really, is it all from Barcelona?

Yogi: Yes, Shri Mataji, coming so well.

Shri Mataji: [Hindi]

Two Yogis: [Hindi]

Shri Mataji: Just see the expression.

Yogi: This gift was from a girl from Austria – it’s a bouquet.

Shri Mataji: They have this one.

Yogi: Next one is very beautiful.

Yogi: It’s so clear this cross, Shri Mataji.

Shri Mataji: And what a determined face.

Yogi: Yes. Very beautiful, the cross at the bindi.

Shri Mataji: It is really very clear cut.

Yogi: Is it the same?

Shri Mataji: It is really unbelievably clear.

Yogi: The cross which appears inside the Bindi.

Shri Mataji: Who has made the food?

Yogini: Mrs. Knoebel has made it. She is the shakti of the house there. She’s here. And also Mani. Mani.

Shri Mataji: Who?

Yogini: Mani. Mani Knoebel. She is married to Harald.

Shri Mataji: Mani?

Yogi: The lady from Taiwan, Shri Mataji.

Shri Mataji: Who?

Yogi: The lady from Taiwan. Taiwan.

Shri Mataji: Taiwan … Ah, She is it. Here name is Mani?

Yogini: Mani, yes we call her Mani.

Yogi: Must be there, Mani …

Shri Mataji: Really, [Hindi].

Yogi: Mani Knoebel, she is married to …

Shri Mataji: It’s very well done. Taiwanese food.

Yogi: Rahuri. This was India, Shri Mataji.

Yogi: Yeah, really.

Shri Mataji: Very well done.

Yogi: Perfect.

Shri Mataji: Actually, just the point is, you should know how to click, when to click.

Yogi: Yes, Shri Mataji.

Shri Mataji: And the angle. Now see the face is so clear and the flowers which are falling over Me are not so clear.

Yogi: Yes, Shri Mataji.

Shri Mataji: You see the point?

Yogi: Everything else is background.

Shri Mataji: Everything is sort of …

Yogi: This is contrary to science, Shri Mataji.

Shri Mataji: And contrary to science. Such details.

Yogis: This was Mahakali Puja in Germany.

Yogis: Ah yes, you can see, it’s made the other way round. [Hindi] A Swastika. The wrong one, Shri Mataji. It’s the other way round. The elephant is nice. [Hindi]

Shri Mataji: [Hindi] Very different type of [inaudible].

Yogis: Two crowns, Shri Mataji – one from Germany and one from Austria. Put together. Together. Yes. Put together.

Shri Mataji: That’s the one?

Yogi: Mother, it’s the same tradition she had like the golden one, you know.

Shri Mataji: Yes, it’s different.

Another Yogi: Yes, it’s also nice.

Yogini: Mother, can we have the allowance to serve also the other Sahaja Yogis?

Shri Mataji: Please, I would love – I was working, I don’t know why you are waiting.

Beautiful. [Hindi] Face takes a funny color, isn’t it?

I can’t explain. As if some mask I’m wearing.

Yogi: Where is this?

Yogi: Diwali Puja. In Milan. ’87.

Shri Mataji: Ahh?

Yogi: Milan, Diwali.

Shri Mataji: Diwali.

Another Yogi: A strong one. It is also there.

Shri Mataji: Eyes. Tremendous eyes. Beautiful.

Yogi: Like fire.

Shri Mataji: The eyes are very good, and the whole color is bluish, you see, on the face and everything.

Yogi: It is not focused.

Yogi: Aurangabad.

Another Yogi: It is so rich.

Shri Mataji: Whatever is the color of the …

Yogi: Oh, this was the one in which you disappeared, Shri Mataji. Aurangabad.

Shri Mataji: Is that the one?

Yogi: Is that?

Another Yogi: Yeah.

Yogi: In a series those larger dimension…

Another Yogi: Ah, yes, yes … no wonder it’s …

Shri Mataji: And the color of the face changes with the color of the focus isn’t it, of the crown?

I think, the color of the crown is predominant everywhere.

Yogi: Too dominant?

[Hindi]

Shri Mataji: Fell down? Is it? (a baby cries loudly) Give him something to drink or …

Yogi: The Sahastrara has taken the color of the thing behind.

Yogi: And also the cross, very easy visible Shri Mataji.

Shri Mataji: Yes, yes, yes. True.

Yogi: And here, this must be something in Arabic, you see. The whole part came over Her head as Kundalini.

Yogi: Here on this left side. Something like that.

Another Yogi: Would be interesting. Yousef is not here?

Shri Mataji: [Hindi] I don’t have –

Yogis: No, no. Not like this. No.

Yogi: Rahuri?

Shri Mataji: Bhasri. The face is very serene.

Your son is very nice.

Yogi: Beautiful, Shri Mataji.

Shri Mataji: Ah, very sweet. There is. Very beautiful. This one is very good.

Yogis: O la la! Shri Mataji, this is something – this is so sweet, yeah. Kerry’s daughter.

Shri Mataji: Very good. Shining everywhere. There is a shine on My eyes, on My – even My tongue is shining. They’ll looking very sweet. It is a great photographer I must say, he’s very great photographer.

He works as a photographer, or as what?

Yogi: I’m a judge, Shri Mataji.

Shri Mataji: This is your hobby?

Yogi: It is my hobby, yes, I like it.

Yogi: You have enjoyed it, all the way?

Yogis: Yes.

Yogi: He is a judge.

Shri Mataji: He is a judge.

Yogi: Maybe that’s why he knows when and how.

Shri Mataji: This is from Spain. Just imagine, Spanish photographs have come out so well.

Yogi: You are very happy at there. So much nature around – and Barcelona it was.

Shri Mataji: Yes, it was such a beautiful surrounding. Barcelona was a very beautiful place.

Yogi: (about the natural cross on Shri Mataji’s forehead) Also the cross, very clear, in the Bindi.

Shri Mataji: Actually when they start taking a photograph, you must remove all the loudspeaker and all that. Otherwise it looks very funny. Because the photograph is so much different.

Yogi: So we remove the remote ones from now. Saying, they can arrange that.

Shri Mataji: Ohh!

Yogi: Very beautiful.

Shri Mataji: This is not in Barcelona?

Yogi: This is Sahastrara Puja in Italy, this year. Sahastrara Puja in Italy. Oh, Rom – this year? What an angle.

Shri Mataji: Divine light.

Yogi: During the music session, at night.

Shri Mataji: It’s divine! I mean – a very different face. Lines so clear.

Yogi: It looks very nice.

Shri Mataji: So good.

Yogi: I don’t know if they have the saying here, but in India they say, somebody has a gap between the two front teeth is considered very lucky.

Yogi: Very lucky, yes.

Yogis: Very lucky. International thing then.

Shri Mataji: I seldom use – open My mouth, My lips so much that all My teeth show. But here there are lots of them are seen.

Beautiful photograph. Beautiful.

Yogi: This is at the ocean, and the program.

Shri Mataji: That’s tremendous.

Yogi: Wawa, Sanghamner.

Shri Mataji: Sanghamner.

Yogi: Public program, ah?

Shri Mataji: Public program – Sanghamner?

Yogi: [Hindi]

Shri Mataji: But there where eight thousand people.

Yogi: Yes, Shri Mataji.

Shri Mataji: This is looking as if I am sitting in the house.

Yogi: You should show it to this journalist there.

Shri Mataji: So comfortable. You should have some exhibition, isn’t it?

Yogis: Yes, Shri Mataji. Only with Your pictures.

Shri Mataji: They wanted to have an exhibition in London – photographs of one person.

Yogis: This one is fantastic. Where is this?

Yogi: The background in dark, Shri Mataji. It’s like portrait.

Yogi: Where is this puja? Polen.

Shri Mataji: How does it get it, is the point. To get the background that dark.

Yogi: It’s Your work, Shri Mataji. I don’t think he’s damped it on the negative.

Shri Mataji: Automatically it comes out?

Yogi: They don’t make it darker.

Yogis: Just good. It’s fantastic. One better than the other one.

Yogi: I mean logically even the face should come out dark – as any human being that is photographed.

Yogi: Shri Mataji, I think You are the most photographed person in this world.

Yogis: Oh, yes. No one is more photographed than You.

Shri Mataji: Might be.

Yogis: Wow, wow, wow!

Shri Mataji: This is good.

Yogi: Classic! That single pearl on the edges.

Shri Mataji: Detailed and deep, very deep.

Yogi: Look at this. [inaudible]

Shri Mataji: You can [ ? ].

Yogi: I don’t know, Shri Mataji. There is a ruby here.

Shri Mataji: On the heart. Hm?

Yogi: Yes! It’s like the heart has come out, somehow.

Shri Mataji: What is that? Just hanging in the air?

Yogi: Scepter. You are holding the scepter. Yes, Shri Mataji. It has that shape.

Shri Mataji: It is a scepter?

Yogi: You hold the scepter.

Shri Mataji: [inaudible] a scepter that?

Yogis: But a scepter doesn’t look like that. It is not a scepter.

Yogi: In India – normally … but for the eyes it doesn’t look like that.

Shri Mataji: You can’t explain.

Yogi: Yes, Shri Mataji.

Yogi: Again the cross.

Shri Mataji: That’s the holy heart.

Yogi: This is there? What puja?

Yogis: Christmas Puja, and again the cross, of course.

Yogi: In Poona?

Yogi: Yeah, it is.

Yogi: That was during the daytime? How did you get the dark background?

Shri Mataji: That’s it.

Yogi: No, no. This is the last. Arrival at the airport.

Yogi: A this is …. Really?

Yogi: Arrival at the airport.

Yogi: Spain. Spain.

Shri Mataji: This is Spain?

Yogi: No, in Geneva. Geneva. Geneva? Pedro was there?

Yogi: Last year it was also there.

Yogis: The Spanish were there. Aha. Incredible. [inaudible]

Shri Mataji: It looks like Milano. Milano? Don’t you also think it is Milano? Or Italy?

Yogi: Geneva is there? When? Last year?

Yogi: Last year.

Yogis: Wow, wow, wow! Ah, this is great. Spain.

Shri Mataji: That’s My typical style. He’s got it so well.

Yogi: You must have been something about Gurumai, Shri Mataji.

Shri Mataji: Must be Gurumai. You know, she is a funny looking woman – [as she was not there] – and she wears a funny type of a hat, by which she looks like a man, you see? So they don’t know – so somebody asked Me, “Mother, Gurumai means a man or a woman?” I said, “Now you see from the photograph. Can’t say.” Gurumai. And she uses American slangs, you know.

She has been already in Barcelona. Can you believe it? This Gurumai. Here father has minted money. And I don’t know what is she going to do? Six-hundred crores worth of diamonds here – only diamonds part. Crores! Is a hundred, hundred-thousand crores.

Yogi: Six hundred corals?

Shri Mataji: Crores.

Yogis: Six billion. Six-thousand rupees.

Shri Mataji: No, no. Crores is a – ten millions, yeah. Ten million, six-hundred of that.

Yogi: Six billions.

Yogi: Six thousand.

Shri Mataji: Six thousand. Diamonds only, that’s the part. The rest is quite a lot. I don’t know what is she going to collect. She is just giving mantras. But people also are so stupid. For getting that mantra they are paying so much money. They are so stupid, I tell you. And they make a drama that you go from one room [inaudible]. Then you go into another room – they garland you. And you go to the third room – I don’t know, they do something. And then in the fourth room the Gurumai is sitting and there they go as she tells the mantra in his ears. Must be putting some bhoot. And then they feel very fine.

Yogi: And then they go to the cashier.

Shri Mataji: That is before.

Yogis: Before. Otherwise they don’t give you a name.

Shri Mataji: They are perfect, you see? Not like this: you have to give it before you enter in. And how they do it. Now, supposing – she was going to Aurangabad. So they had made a list of people who are important in Aurangabad. And they went to different people who were important, all American people. It is so in India. If, say Americans come in the house – foreigners you see, you must respect, respect. So they went into My brother’s house also, who is a – you know that – who is the high court judge. So they went into his house and they started saying that “We have come to meet you.” Is it very nice? What do you want? And they just saw My big photograph there. So they said, “What is Shri Mataji doing here?” They knew about Me. So she said, “Why? She is my sister.” They just packed up everything, went away, “Oh we came to the wrong house. Wrong house.” You see, they all know about Me.

Yogi: But how? Since Shri Mataji they know about You, how they keep on going the nonsense?

Shri Mataji: I don’t know.

Yogi: Are they not afraid of their guru?

Shri Mataji: But it is sly, you see? Not, they don’t come forward – just sly away. Recently Rajneesh say that, “Mataji is a tantric.”

(about the food) I said, very good.

Yogi: You want this?

Shri Mataji: Much publicity for it. Mataji is tantric. Of course We are, because We know the Tantra, we know the technique, so we are in a way. But this fellow is so well known, Rajneesh, everywhere. How he has managed to do that God only knows. But he too did the same tricks. Is to find out who are the important people in a city. Then send foreigners there, ask them to call before the program, and then especially the rich. They feel very elated that: “We were invited, we have been called.”

Also Chinese style, is it?

Yogini: It is the last one.

Yogi: Before the dessert.

Shri Mataji: They have so many dishes, these Chinese.

Yogi: Shri Mataji, is it true that this horrible demon is completely sick today?

Shri Mataji: Yeah. He is very sick. But he has so much money that he can buy anyone in India. But he cannot cure himself. He was very sick when they had his birthday. About the fourteenth of November he had. But he was very, very sick. Five thousand people had gathered for his birthday, but he could not come out of his room, he could not get up from his bed, he was that sick.

Yogi: What a guru.

Shri Mataji: There also we have some Indians who are very materialistic and they think that he is there, so we are getting so much of foreign exchange, so let him be there. Because – I talked to one magistrate, I said, “What is this? This Rajneesh is sitting here, and you are all supporting him.” He says, “You see, no Indian goes to him. So he doesn’t spoil us. Wherever he is, all these people will be going to him. What does it matter to us? You put him anywhere, these people will go there. So at least they have a business there.” It’s nice he is in Poona.

One fellow, called Chandra Swami, he become very friendly with the [inaudible] …

Yogi: So this one.

Shri Mataji: Amerit?

Yogi: From the U.A..

Shri Mataji: You see the big man from the Arab countries, Amerit they call him.

Yogi: I am forgetting his name.

Shri Mataji: Emirates.

Yogi: He is a famous arms dealer also. Adnand Kashogi. You have heard of Kashogi?

Another Yogi: Yes, sure.

Shri Mataji: Yes, yes.

Yogi: He is in Austria very often.

Another Yogi: Really?

Yogis: Yes, yes.

Shri Mataji: He is in Austria?

Yogi: Very often, Shri Mataji.

Another Yogi: Must be coming there for something.

Yogi: He is a part of the society in Austria, Shri Mataji.

Shri Mataji: Really?

Yogi: Kashogi, yes, he comes for opera ball.

Another Yogi: He has the [stand] yacht at the Mediterranean called Nabhila. He has sold it now, I think to – or he has given it to the Sultan of Brunei. I think he has given it to him. He is very thick with this Chandra Swami.

Shri Mataji: Now this Chandra Swami was a friend of – became a friend with this Musselman, just imagine. With this Muslim fellow. And very surprisingly he accepted to do a havana.

Shri Mataji: [ …] wanted to harm Rajeev Gandhi, and he was – I don’t know – in some sort of a scandal. I don’t know – very complicated. He got into some complicated scandal, Chandra Swami. So when he came to India he was arrested. And we have an ashram in Delhi now, the land and they are building now. Next to the ashram is this Chandra Swami’s land. Now finished. He can’t do anything there. Same with Rajneesh. You can’t do anything there.

Yogi: Shri Mataji, Ossi just told me that your Ekadasha Rudra Puja has already shown …

Shri Mataji: I think …

Yogi: … shown success. It’s reported that Khomeini has got liver cancer, incurable one.

Shri Mataji: You tell them about the kumkum, what happened.

Yogi: Yeah, Shri Mataji. Can I talk in German, Shri Mataji?

Shri Mataji: Yes, please.

Yogi: Wenn Shri Mataji nach dem Puja in das Ashram gekommen ist haben wir das Kumkum von Ihren Fuessen gewaschen. Ich habe Seife genommen und Wasser und ich habe mir die Haende eingeseift und hab dann die Fuesse von Shri Mataji begonnen abzuwaschen. Und ich schau mir die Haende an: meine Haende waren kohlraben-schwarz. Wie wenn man in ein uraltes Motoroel hinein gegriffen haette. Und das Wasser war dann nicht rot, wie es normal ist, wenn man die Fuesse von Shri Mataji vom Kumkum abwaescht, sondern total eine schwarze Sauce, koennte man sagen. Und Shri Mataji hat erklaert, dass es all die Negativitaet war, die waehrend dieses Ekadasha Rudra Pujas zerstoert worden ist. Das war also ganz …

Shri Mataji: Never had this kind of a black thing, never had.

Yogi: It was harsh, so that I have made a joke, or something like this.

Shri Mataji: Like a tar it was, really.

Another Yogi: Shri Mataji, my father is dying, just today.

Shri Mataji: Really?

Yogi: He is dying, yes.

Shri Mataji: When?

Yogi: Just about these last days. It happened exactly at the same time.

Shri Mataji: Oh God.

Yogi: Very interesting.

Shri Mataji: What’s all going to happen I don’t know. All the news will be out now. His father is very funny. I tell you, really, very negative, extremely negative. I mean, this generation that is yours is something very special, I must say, because what I find the people from the war, after the war, became very devoid of all values, everything so desperate.

Yogi: But what is interesting, Shri Mataji, is the psychology of this stupid Catholics.

Shri Mataji: Yes.

Yogi: Because they swim in materialism for their whole life. And half an hour before the death they start to worry about their future, and about their salvation.

Shri Mataji: Of what? Really?

Yogi: So one or two hours before the death, so they start to invoke all the gods, and things, and take the priest in their room, and things like that. And they think that they can have a ticket to heaven – just half an hour before the death.

Shri Mataji: Pope gave the ticket.

The Catholics are one style, and Protestants another. These Catholics are, they don’t want to think, they have blind faith, this, that … But the Protestants think, and thought out religion. They’ve made a science out it. Do you know there is a big theory: Science of God? These human beings are going to tell you about the science of God. What to they know about science of God? I don’t know what they are talking about. But there are big, big courses and things on science of God. In London there are big courses, Science of God. So you become a priest, I think, after that passing that exam.

Yogi: Shri Mataji has given Indian names to these two leaders. He is called now Markandeya.
And Philip is called Yogeshwara.

Yogis: Wow, wow, wow!

Shri Mataji: [Hindi]

Yogi: [Hindi]

Shri Mataji: [Hindi] But they must eat their food there.

Yogi: Okay.

Yogi: Also Shri Mataji, Arneau must have a name now, Shri Mataji.

Shri Mataji: What did you say?

Yogi: They said, they have eaten food.

Shri Mataji: All right, if they have eaten then it’s all right. They have eaten! What is it?

Yogi: Arneau is left. No, no, no! It is …

Shri Mataji: Arneau has been given, his name is Dhanurdhara. It is Shri Krishna’s name.

Yogis: Ah. Wow, wow, wow.

Shri Mataji: Dhanurdhara.

He is the one who is the person who sustains the [Hindi ?]

Yogi: Bow.

Shri Mataji: Archer, the Archer of archers. Dhanurdhara he is called.

Yogi: He is Sagittarius.

Shri Mataji: He is Sagittarius.

Yogi: Shri Krishna’s name.

Shri Mataji: In the Gita, Shri Krishna has described how to achieve salvation giving the simile of this bow. How you should hit at yourself. With your own bow. Very beautifully done. But they sing this in Sanskrit [inaudible] But you see, I cannot explain in English language. Now, it’s this string and the bow and the arrow. And how you should put it and hit at yourself. Now you see how you should break the barrier of self. Very beautifully said. A complete chapter on that in the Gita. The string is called as a Patenja. It is a nice thing, patenja. And the bow as dhanushya. Dhanushya it is called there.

There was one girl whose name was Dhanush. You remember that?

Yogini: Yes. The Turkish girl.

Shri Mataji: Yeah! She came from Kurdisthan. And she made a picture which had a rainbow.

Yeah, yeah. Now the rainbow, the bow is dhanush, bow is dhanush, you see? Her name was also Dhanush. And she made a picture with a bow around this Mahaganesha. Very remarkable. Bow means dhanush. Her name was Dhanush. But in a short form it’s called as Dhanu. In Sanskrit it’s Dhanu. Now … [Hindi]

(classical music starts)

Shri Mataji: [inaudible] Very well done.

And the accompaniments also so beautifully, so timely. So beautifully! It is a very difficult one. Is it from Strauss, is it?

Yogis: It is Mozart. Mozart. Mozart, Shri Mataji. Mozart.

Shri Mataji: Little bit like Strauss in between. But when did you start, at what age, playing this?

Yogi: My Instrument?

Shri Mataji: Yeah.

Yogi: About eight years.

Shri Mataji: That’s it, you had to start …

Yogi: Before I learned violin playing.

Shri Mataji: Ah, I see.

Yogi: Three years – and then cello.

Shri Mataji: Is there more depth in it, in your music. And that has the higher … But when you people play, I don’t know the notation. In the notation – is it in four parts you play always? Not necessarily?

Yogi: Not necessarily.

Shri Mataji: Soprano – all the time.

Yogi: We have written music, every voice is extra. Written and played also.

Shri Mataji: Yes. But that you have done yourself.

Yogi: Yeah.

Shri Mataji: Like a composer does it? Or the person who is, who does that in the concert, is the separation of the parts? Not the composer?

Yogi: No, no. It is not like a composer.

Shri Mataji: No. Composer just writes. Then it is divided into parts. Say, this one is violin, this one is this.

Yogi: Yeah.

Shri Mataji: Is done by the conductor?

Yogi: Yes, also. Also the conductor, also, yes.

Shri Mataji: But is it also done by the composer?

Yogi: Yes, also!

Shri Mataji: Into all details, a composer?

Yogi: Yes.

Shri Mataji: Who was the best in that? In doing this detailed working?

Yogi: It’s difficult to say. I think Beethoven. Beethoven.

Shri Mataji: Beethoven.

Yogi: … was very strong in details.

Shri Mataji: But then you cannot put anything spontaneously. If it is so fixed.

Yogi: Yeah, yeah, right. Mozart wrote it, all his pieces …

Shri Mataji: It is given quite freedom to people.

Yogi: Yes.

Shri Mataji: Just lot of play. Also I have seen people have one person solo standing.

Yogi: Yeah.

Shri Mataji: And he plays. And he plays from the same, is it?

Yogi: Yeah.

Shri Mataji: And than some people join in. This must be done by conductor, I think so.

Yogi: Yes.

Shri Mataji: When they play solo they don’t read. Just go off.

Yogi: Yeah, play by heart.

Shri Mataji: It’s a very difficult art – the way it is, I think. So it’s a very collective thing.

Yogi: Yeah.

Shri Mataji: Yes. Indian music is very individualistic. But is more sort of …

Yogi: … spontaneous.

Shri Mataji: Spontaneous. Very spontaneous. Very creative. That there’s one musician – some singer, famous. And his name is Bhimsen Joshi. And he has sung one song which is a Bhairavi, he said, at least one thousand times. And every time he has sung it differently. Very spontaneous. That’s why very rigorous training is needed in Indian music. You have to start very early, and a very rigorous training, you see. People have to practise for hours and hours. So once you become an Indian musician, your life is completely dedicated to it. You can’t get out of it. I remember My sister used to get up at five o’clock in the morning till eight o’clock. And then she would go, have her bath, come back, again sit down, till about eleven o’clock. Or ten o’clock – something like that. She has done her PHD in Indian music.

Yogi: Apfelstrudel, Shri Mataji.

Shri Mataji: Ahh?

Yogis: Typical Austrian, Shri Mataji.

Shri Mataji: What is the that?

Yogis: It’s very famous. Apple pie. It is a special apple pie, Shri Mataji.

Shri Mataji: Apple pie?

Yogi: It should go with a coffee, Shri Mataji.

Shri Mataji: All right. I don’t mind.

Yogi: With a coffee and a whipped cream normally.

Shri Mataji: All right, I don’t mind! Now I become Austrian, in Austria.

Yogi: Marcus, She said, She doesn’t mind to have a coffee with that.

Yogi: Yeah.

Yogini: Would you like some coffee or tea?

Shri Mataji: Yes, yes, coffee.

But not very strong one, not capuccini.

Yogi: Melange, Shri Mataji, melange.

Shri Mataji: Capuccini is too much. I gave it to C.P. He said, whether you call it Chinese or Italian, You better have it, not me. Capuccini. Really, Capuccini.

But still there are so many artistic things. And people want to produce artistic things. Despite the modern style. In the modern music, this pop music – what is the art? No art. First they go on, I don’t know, emptying their voices. You can’t even understand what they are singing. Whether they are singing Marathi or in English, God alone knows.

Yogi: It’s not important.

Shri Mataji: Not important. I don’t know, must be, I think, they are all drug-addicts. And they are also singing in a drug condition. Because nobody knows what they are singing. They are just doing like this, doing like that.

Another Yogi: And they attract millions of people, Shri Mataji.

Shri Mataji: Millions, I tell you. In England there is one fellow, who was singing so. I told My husband, said, “What is this one singing?” He said, “God knows.” I said, “Which language?” “I don’t know.” But there where thousands standing in a big stadium. And then he told Me he is the most well known, I mean, the most famous and the most talented singer. His name is John [Editor’s note: probably Elton John]. Horrible he was, I tell you. He had no voice, he had no rhythm, he had nothing in it. Just like a buffalo, you see, with …

Yogi: And they are praising his expression. They’re praising his non-expression. Sort of – his face.

Shri Mataji: He was eating the mic. I just don’t know what was there. There was nothing of music. There was, I mean I would not even call it a destructive music. Neither a constructive music, nor – but some of an idiotic style. Absolutely idiotic. Even the animals would start looking at them, what is happening to these people? There is no composition for that, is it, For this mod music? Is there composition?

Yogi: Also, also. Yes, also composition.

Shri Mataji: Did they write it like this?

Yogi: Yes.

Shri Mataji: Nothing, nothing, you see. They just don’t have anything in front of them. Now, who is a pop singer among you?

Yogi: (to another yogi who is a pop singer) You are naughty, you are naughty.

Shri Mataji: Oh, the banjo is a good thing. That’s very good. Such a nice thing. It’s a very old one this banjo also. Used by the Gipsies long time. It’s a very good thing, that one that you use – guitar. We call it banjo. But, otherwise the style they have developed now: shouting, screaming. As if for some deaf people.

(a baby laughs)

Yogi: It seems it is laughing about our pop music, I think.

Shri Mataji: So what about you people, having this?

Yogis: [Inaudible ?], Shri Mataji.

Shri Mataji: All right.

Yogini: It is six month.

Yogi: Six month.

Shri Mataji: Though they could produce some nice music, now doubt. Together, rhythmic music. In Indian music, classical music the meaning has no part. The meaning has nothing to do. Just notes. There was a great Musician in India. And she went to Pakistan. Her father, his name was Abdul Karim Khan. Might be having this record, have you any? Abdul Karim Khan?

Yogi: No.

Shri Mataji: No? All right, write it down, his name. A very great singer, Abdul Karim Khan. And also a very revolutionary man, he was a Muslim. And he married a lady who was a beautiful singer, but she was a prostitute. So in India, we have two types of prostitutes: one or those which are absolutely useless, and another ones who sing. They are prostitute, from prostitute family. They never get married, you see, because they are supposed to be of that family. Because of that family that they are born in they are not taken seriously. So, you see, this gentleman, he married a lady of that repute. And he had children. One of them was called as Roshan. I mean she was short, extremely fat, like this, you see. She was like that. Absolutely black. Like a black cow dung on her face, horrible. But when he started the music, you see, what a voice she had. She sung one pilu raag and there’s only one sentence she has used: ari nanadhia ori nanadhia. Nanadhia is the sister of the, Nanadh is the sister of the husband. So she is talking to her sister-in-law. That’s the only sentence. “Oh my dear sister in law, my dear sister in law.” That’s all. The whole thing is that she sung. Such variety and such permutation, such combinations. The whole of the record is filled with that. But if you see the lady you won’t believe that she is such a great singer.

And another sister was called as Hirabei Barodekar because the lady was – the husband said that the first name of the lady should be Muslim, and she should be belonging to Muslim religion. If there was Sahaja Yoga, they would have all come to Sahaja Yoga, I think. And there the second and third were called as Hindus. So Hirabei Barodekar and second one was Saraswati Rane. And they had a brother: Suresh Mane. All great musicians. But the Hirabei married and Saraswathi Rane also married. Then Saraswathi Rane – that was her third name, Rane – her daughter never used to sing, but her granddaughter. She is hardly about nineteen, twenty years of age. I don’t know if you have heard her tape with us. And she wanted to sing before Me, and she said, “You just give me thousand rupees, that’s all. Because I am not a great singer, I am just ordinary.” Because she was a granddaughter of Sarawathi Rane and all that, we thought, let’s call her. So she came for the program in Poona. It was a puja, I think?

Yogi: Akshay Tritya.

Shri Mataji: Akshay Tritya.

That’s the day, when – I mean it is regarded as the most auspicious day to start anything. And she came to sing very ordinary. Beginning she started Yaman Raga in a very ordinary way. But her grandmother was there, and her mother was there and they sent with her a very well known harmonium player, who used to play with the mother also, to support her. About ten minutes she was just, I mean, just a mediocre player. And just her Kundalini rose after that, just like a big explosion it was. And when that took place, you see, immediately she became something else. And she went into such superlatives from this time to that end, to this end to that end. You see, she is such a little girl. Even the harmonium fellow couldn’t understand her. He was supposed to give her suggestions, so he got. So she also realized, so she said, “All right, whatever I am singing you play, don’t suggest it.” And went on and on. And she surpassed her mother, her grandmother, her great-grandfather and all the musicians of India. She sung so well, you can’t imagine. So I was wearing a necklace of pearls, so I gave it to her as a present. She did just wanted one thousand rupees, imagine. But that tape you don’t have, do we?

Yogi: I have to get a copy from Poona.

Shri Mataji: [Hindi]

Yogi: [Hindi]

Shri Mataji: No, they had not recorded. But Talwar Swami has got. So we should write to Talwar Swami.

Yogi: When Sandesh comes he shall bring it with him.

Shri Mataji: And they just thought she is such an ordinary singer, so why tape her. But then immediately I said, “Arrange a tape.” Mister Talwar had it.

Yogi: But Shri Mataji, even to us as Westerners it’s so amazing now to understand from the time we are Sahaja Yogis how we start little bit to understand through vibrations the music. Because when we heard Debu Choudhuri in Ganapatipule or Anup Jalota in Rome – I mean, what a difference! I mean, of course the style is different, the quality is different, but even if Jalota sings like a master but the quality of vibrations is not bringing you to this level of union and beauty and bliss, then Debu Choudhuri for example.

Shri Mataji: Perfectly true.

Yogi: And this is a magic that You put in the music. It’s growing little by little and …

Shri Mataji: But Arneau, more than that. It’s so surprising. Now this Ai Ghiri Nandini even Indians can’t sing. Even very great musicians cannot sing. Your ambassador’s wife must have been really – don’t know, must have been shocked to see you people singing that Sanskrit Ai Ghiri Nandini so clearly.

Yogi: She had open eyes, Shri Mataji. Wow, wow! [inaudible] Madras is not yet very well.

Shri Mataji: I mean, they can’t sing. They can’t sing, it is not easy, it’s hard to sing. It is a very fast number and the words are very difficult – I mean she must have, I am sure she must have been absolutely bowled out. Her eyes were all out, is it?

Yogi: Yes, yes.

Shri Mataji: Who?

Yogi: We are enjoying the rhythm to …

Shri Mataji: And her husband?

Yogi: Yeah! He was enjoying the rhythm. And he would go faster and faster and he was really saying, “Wow!”

Shri Mataji: Was he not stunned by this?

Yogi: Yes he was, Shri Mataji.

Shri Mataji: Because Ai Ghiri Nandini is not a easy song.

Yogi: Syllables are very strong like that.

Shri Mataji: They are not easy. You see the Sanskrit pronunciations are so difficult. And the way you have picked up – I am really amazed. I know of a German who came to India. We were trying to teach him some Sanskrit. And My father got so tired. He gave up. He said, “This man can never understand.” So I said, “But they said that German is something like Sanskrit.” He said, “What? German like Sanskrit? This one cannot twist his tongue at all, he cannot learn Sanskrit. He can read, but he can not say it.”

Yogi: Yeah, pronounce it.

Shri Mataji: The tongue has become so light – it’s a very, you know, difficult song! For a – I mean, for an European to sing is an impossibility. It’s a very big tongue-twister. Sanskrit means, you have to know the tongue to be twisted all round, going round up and down. German is much easier, much easier than that, much easier.

Yogi: Shri Mataji, if You allow, some should go to Graz now.

Shri Mataji: Oh yes, that’s good.

Yogi: Not we, Shri Mataji. But those who are musicians and help them to make the music program.

Shri Mataji: Yes, yes, yes.

Yogi: And those who have to attend the follow-up programs in Vienna, they should also slowly go back now, if You would allow them.

Shri Mataji: All right. So what time should we reach there?

Yogi: We could leave here without being in a hurry at seven o’clock, Shri Mataji.

Shri Mataji: Really? All right.

Yogi: But the others, they should slowly go now.

Shri Mataji: All right. As you please. So you go ahead. You will be having there music program?

Yogis: Yes, Shri Mataji.

Shri Mataji: Good.

Yogi: So Mother, may I ask You for Your blessings for this Program?

Shri Mataji: May God bless you! May God bless you very well! May God bless you!

Remarkable. Then also the Germans have the best, I may say that, tongue-twister among all the European languages. But I think the Swiss have the least. And how do they then sing so well?

Yogis: Import. They are not Swiss. Import, Shri Mataji, import. The secret is, they are not Swiss.

Shri Mataji: You are Swiss, I tell you. The tongue has become very light, you see. Otherwise Swiss have a very thick tongue.

Yogi: Swiss German is just like cutting your throat and [inaudible]

Shri Mataji: The combination is horrid. Yes it’s true, they are. How many times you went to Zurich, three times?

Yogi: Yes, Shri Mataji, three, four times. We had pujas, we had programs. I think, Shri Mataji, in the east you have the desert of Gobi, you mentioned some times. There might be some desert of Gobi spiritually in the western world too, Shri Mataji.

Shri Mataji: Yes, there was something. Shangri-La was the name, isn’t it? Something like that. The name of that organization, which was taking them to the Gobi, desert of Gobi. Yeah, yeah, that was the organization. They used to take money from people and they said we are going to take to the desert of Gobi and then you’ll get your salvation. You walk for about ten miles – you get your salvation, all right. It’s the Shangri-La. You know, you see, where I saw in India, this Shangri-La organization – in Madras, I think, yes. Somewhere in Madras it is. Forgetting. We went to see this lady and the name of the house was Shangri-La. And they started looking at Me, and there we went inside and there was this organization of Shangri-La, what came through that person. But she was quite sensitive. The husband had gone out, somewhere. So she said, “You are vigraha.” Vigraha is the form. Vigraha is the form, is very divine.

Yogi: Madrasi.

Shri Mataji: Madrasi.

Yogi: The musicians, the famous Swiss musicians should go.

Shri Mataji: Musicians must go.

Yogi: Argentina. They are Argentina.

Shri Mataji: Argentines. He has given salvation to the whole of Argentina. Did I tell you about David?

Yogi: No, Shri Mataji, no.

Shri Mataji: I must tell you. This you must hear.

You see, they will fall with great persuasion and all that. I agreed to come to Milano Puja, for Lakshmi Puja – and you just copied him there. “Oh God,” I said, “now finished this fellow.” And he was looking like this. I said, “Now, what’s going to happen?” This one has copied him, and he never came to any program. So next morning when he came I said, “I am sorry, David, you see this Rosario just copied you. But you know, he likes to copy, I hope you don’t mind.” He said, “No, Mother, I am really surprised at his talent.” Just imagine, his talent. Like a real Englishman, I tell you. Surprised at his talent. “This thing happened two years back, and he remembers each and every thing. The way I threw the grass. I was looking at him, amazed – and aghast, see, look at the talent.” I thought he must have felt all the way with … (Shri Mataji shows something)

Yogi: He was stunned.

Shri Mataji: But imagine, what an appreciation.

Yogis: Yes, very sportsman-like.

Shri Mataji: Very sportsman.

Yogis: Gentleman.

Yogi: He told me, Shri Mataji, after the whole thing he told me, “I’m going to give you some other details about me.”

Shri Mataji: He is so much changed, you don’t know, his life is saved. I remember the way he was when he came from TM. Was terrible, you see. They sent me an SOS from the ashram: “Mother please come!” I said, “What has happened?” “This one gentleman, we just took Your name, and he was going into contortions.” Contortions like, “I AU O HA OOH!” I said, “What is, what is, why it is happening?” They said, “We just took Your name.” And another fellow has jumped out of the room, under the table, about twenty feet, outside. I said, “What sort of this lot has coming?” And then we discovered they were all from TM. So I went there, he was still on, “WAU HA AUWAU!” And the third one was barking like a dog in the garden.

Yogi: I remember, Shri Mataji, I remember.

Shri Mataji: You were there?

Yogi: Yes.

Shri Mataji: Arneau.

Yogi: Yes.

Shri Mataji: Just imagine! And everybody was so worried about this man, going into contortions like that. So I went and gave him a dab here and he stopped. This was too much really.

No, no, not from here?

Yogi: I suppose we have a good coffee there like that.

Shri Mataji: Aah! No, no, no. The coffee hot? I mean you can only have coffee and then hot.

Yogi: Have a bite of that and you have coffee – as much as you like.

Yogi: We had a chef from Austria, called Helmut Mayer – he used to go also in Your hotel in Delhi.

Shri Mataji: It was [inaudible] It is very hot for Me.

Ah, so you hold it from here. Is quite dark, yeah? That’s all, that’s all.

Yogini: Yeah! But it’s very light.

Shri Mataji: Yeah, I take some coffee. I am sorry, I can’t take very dark coffee.

Yogini: This is a fresh cow milk.

Shri Mataji: Ahh?

Yogini: This is a fresh cow milk. Fresh cow milk.

Shri Mataji: Cow milk?

Yogini: Yes! A fresh one …

Shri Mataji: Then I can have more. The cows are here?

Yogini: They are. Here and everywhere, it’s a little village and so many cows live here.

Shri Mataji: Now you go ahead, all of you. Those who have to go should go. Everybody is gone? And the rest are going to stay here or what? I think they can also go, because to help them there. They will need some help there? For decoration or something like that?

Yogi: We sent people earlier, from the first day itself.

Shri Mataji: Really?

Yogi: From some girls went and …

Shri Mataji: Very thorough.

(to a baby) How are you?

H.H. Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi