Two Interviews

Istanbul (Turkey)

1989-10-30 Two Interviews, Istanbul Turkey DP-RAW, 80'
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Interview with Nilay Karman

1989 – 1030 Two Interviews, Istanbul, Turkey.

Interviewer: Hello nice to meet you.

Shri Mataji: Good Morning.

Interviewer: Good Morning. 

Shri Mataji: Nice to see so many lady journalists.

Journalist: For now, there is in Turkey I am afraid there are more lady Journalists then men.

Shri Mataji: Really.

Interviewer: Yes, because lady journalists are not paid well.

Shri Mataji: They are not paid well?

Interviewer: Not really.

Shri Mataji: Unclear () and you know that but its nice that ladies as journalists you see. They will be subtler than men in anything.

Interviewer: So, You came here yesterday?

Shri Mataji: Yesterday. Yes.

Interviewer: Directly from London?

Shri Mataji: No no no no, we came from Rome. 

Yogini: Shri Mataji is travelling a lot

{Discontinued video} 

Shri Mataji: Infrareds actually here Unclear () from there we broke down and took the plane and then 

Interviewer: You were staying in Rome?

Shri Mataji: Yes, we have gone for a seminar. Were seminar about eight hundred people in there. 

Interviewer: So, I assume you travelling around.

Shri Mataji: Quite a lot.

Interviewer: Quite a lot, giving seminars.

Shri Mataji: Yes, they have allowed thirty-six nations who are doing Sahaja Yoga.

Interviewer: Thirty-six nations? 

Shri Mataji: Thirty-six, so I mean you have to travel. 

Interviewer: I assume You last time check this…

Shri Mataji: Long time back? 

Interviewer: in the seventy’s

Shri Mataji: Yes seventy

Interviewer: Have you been travelling in the educating…

Shri Mataji: Yes, first I went to Iran.

Interviewer: Iran? When was that?

Shri Mataji: I think it was seventy-one or seventy-two. That time Shahaf Iran was there. 

Interviewer: You went to Tehran?

Shri Mataji: Yes Tehran and also I went to Shiraz and Isfahan. Yes.

Interviewer: and what was the reaction?
Shri Mataji: Wonderful.

Interviewer: What’s the reaction of the people?

Shri Mataji: Very great. They were all seekers. Lots of them. In thousands came, but after that this you see then the change, we lost them completely. 

Interviewer: So, you went to Tehran, Iran before unclear ()

Shri Mataji: Of course. Much before.

Interviewer: Then he was posted in 1978, did you go before that?

Shri Mataji: Much before 72 I went

Interviewer: You just go once? 

Shri Mataji: Once only. 

Interviewer: You didn’t go after this.

Shri Mataji: No

Interviewer: Then why did you come to Turkey? I was talking to this guy unclear ()

Shri Mataji: They invited me.

Interviewer: She told me that, you first came here in May this year

Shri Mataji: Yes, and I found the reaction. People are very very., 

Interviewer: What was the reaction?

Shri Mataji: The reaction is that seekers I think they are very subtle people, very subtle and they are seeking something very higher, the spiritual ascent and I was asking them what is the reason why this country has so much subtility, then they told me that there have been lots of Sufis they talked about the ascent 

Interviewer: Could you explain it although I have read it in brochure, I want to hear it from you. Also, what is self-realization? Why do people unclear ()

Shri Mataji: You see in our evolutionary process, we have become human beings. But we do not have the absolute knowledge of Truth. Absolute. Which is such that nobody can challenge it. That’s why we have difference of opinion, different theories, different ideas about God, about divinity because only the absolute can integrate and tell us what’s the Truth is. For that there is one more evolutionary jump or a break through one has to take. Once that happens then you become the Spirit. That’s self-realization. Once you become the Spirit, then you can feel the all-pervading subtle power around. You can feel it. What you call it unclear (), you can feel it in your fingertips. Not only that, but you can find out about anything what is Truth and what is not. Supposing somebody was saying the other day about Mohammad Sahab, I said he was, he was a primordial master. He never talked about it. But he was. So, how do you know if I say something? Just have to put your hands like this as you do in the Namaz and ask the question. And you get the cool breeze flowing. Like the computer you start actually. You become a Divine computer. 

Interviewer: Could you be a bit more specifically?

Shri Mataji: About what?

Interviewer: To unclear () for

Shri Mataji: Now what happens actually that I’ll tell you. That I will tell you but this I just gave you the introduction to what is self-realization is. What happens is that in the triangular bone we call as sacrum bone. Alright. That is the bone which is sacrum called sacred. See it’s a Greek word. And that means the Greeks knew about it, it’s a sacred bone. And inside that it makes a kind of an energy which is dormant and when somebody who has the built-in quality to raise that power faces another human being that power raises. And in many people who have obstructions, you can see clearly the pulsation just like a heart its move and then you see its raising also the energy you see it till it comes here you feel the throbbing and then last even it opens out this part.,

Interviewer: but you need to educate yourself to raise it.

Shri Mataji: No no it has nothing to do with education. Its beyond beyond your mental. It is beyond your mental. It is…

Interviewer: It doesn’t happen to me

Shri Mataji: It will, why not 

Interviewer: That was the question I am asking

Shri Mataji: no no no anybody can get it. Yesterday the journalist lady she got it right. It can happen to you in no time. In not time. You can just have it. 

Journalist: Mam would you let me to explain her about the sacrum bone.

Shri Mataji: Sacrum bone? Yes alright. 

Interviewer: I mean all of a sudden how can I know?

Shri Mataji: Of course, you can also why not? You are a human being after all. Alright now see like unclear () it now, 

Interviewer: I am human being, if I want to use that energy, 

Shri Mataji: Later on, later on once you have to get your realization first it has to come that the connection has to establish. Like we have to connect the television you see, you are to be connected, then you have to know how to use it. First you have to be connected that’s important. Like you see it’s a built-in process, it’s a living process. Built-in process in a seed and built-in process in the Mother Earth. You put the seed in the Mother earth it sprouts by itself. It’s a living process. 

Interviewer: And this has nothing to do with any kind of religion?

Shri Mataji: No no no nothing. Its innate. 

Interviewer: if you are I mean because unclear () you were saying that you went to Iran and unclear (rapture) the evolutionary Iran now that there is a different regime there {voice overlap} 

Shri Mataji: I mean I cannot unclear(detach/detract) them. That’s the point. 

Interviewer: You cannot unclear (contact) them. 

Shri Mataji: contact, that is there. But in Russia there is not conditioning of any religion. We have thousands will be unclear(surprised) by thousands, I was giving lecture to two thousand inside and two thousand were waiting outside. Thousands and thousands in Ukraine , in Ellinas, we went to Mosco all these places. People were coming from such distances. 

Interviewer: Can you contact the unclear () in India?

Shri Mataji: In India, everybody’s religion seems to be in danger. They are very great fanatics all of them. Whether it is Muslims or Christians or Hindus. In India it seems that English have created this feeling of freneticism and they are very very very fanatic people. There are some Muslims of course very very few they are. 

Interviewer: There are few Muslims in India who …

Shir Mataji: Yes, but you see all organized religions have this problem. The religion if it is organized, then it has a problem. But specially these are converts, recent converts and all that so like specially the Christians and the Muslims are organized. But the Hindus are not. There is no organization. Unclear () have so many Christians also.

Interviewer: How would you define the religion?

Shri Mataji: Actually, religion is within us is our valency. Valency. You see as Carbon has four valency, these human beings have got, ten valences. And these are ten commandments. But when we do not keep our valences, we can become sub human, or we can become extremist, we can become fanatics, we can become anything. It’s an innate thing within us. Religion is a innate thing. Religion is not outside, its not man made. Its within ourselves. And when it is enlightened, say, one could be a Muslim, One could be a Hindu, Christian anything they can commit any sin. There is no restriction on them. So how do they follow a religion? 

Interviewer: Do yourself believe in God?

Shri Mataji: Of course, it’s all God’s work. 

Interviewer: and what is your religion? Unclear ()

Shri Mataji: My religion is Sahaja Yoga. Our religion is Sahaja Yoga. In the sense it is no religious, its not man made, is within ourselves and when it is awakened now for example you will be surprised at we have so many English who were drug addicts, and who were alcoholics. Overnight they gave up. Over night. They got their realization; they give it up. Its like this. You see if I tell somebody don’t drink, don’t drink they drink more. Alright? Like if you have a snake in your hand then there is darkness if I say this is snake, you will say no its not snake this is a rope. But if there’s light, you will drop it yourself. Its like that. So the light, the enlightenment within yourself then you just don’t do wrong things. 

Interviewer: I see, but would you consider I can’t pronounce the name, Sahaja Yoga, Could you consider that as a religion as Christianity or unclear ()

Shri Mataji: No no no nothing. Its not man made. 

Interviewer: what is this relates to; I mean how would you consider; how would you relate it?

Shri Mataji: You see it is something that happens within yourself. You become a new personality. A new awareness of collective consciousness comes into you. You will become a different person. You are no more a ordinary human being. You become a saint.

Interviewer: What do you mean by that?

Shri Mataji: You see ordinary human beings can do all kinds of sins like to kill anybody and can do all kinds of wrong things. Like you can say a dog can go through a dirty lake. It doesn’t feel the smell. Human beings can. We can feel the beauty. They cannot feel it. Animals can. Now, when you become this, then you can see the beauty of virtues. You enjoy your virtues. You enjoy your compassion. You enjoy your generosity. You are a transform personality. You become so peaceful within inside. 

Interviewer: But ordinary human beings can also enjoy the nature.

Shri Mataji: No, they cannot to that extent. They are possessive by nature. They want to possess it. When they see something, they want to have it. Say supposing this carpet I like, then the thought going into my head Oh how much is this carpet, but if it is mine, the headache will be there. It should not be spoiled by something. But for a person who is a realized soul.,

Interviewer: But it depends to people. Some people could say ‘Oh I should have it’ and the other ones will say ‘Oh it’s a nice carpet’

Shri Mataji: that’s all. That’s all. I mean there is nothing more than that. But once you are a realized soul, once you see something good, you become thoughtless and the joy of this creation starts pouring into you. You will be absolutely relaxed. Absolutely relaxed. You enjoy. In the real sense of the word joy is not the happiness or unhappiness. 

Interviewer: Happiness or?

Shri Mataji: Un happiness. Its not double. Its single. Singular thing. So, this experience of joy is cannot be described at human level. When the joy is there, you just are joyous that’s all. No thought, no thought of anything. 

Interviewer: So, what is the aim of this?

Shri Mataji: The aim of it is the transformation of human beings completely. Will have no problem. 

Interviewer: No, in my mind its quite contradictory. 

Shri Mataji: No no, you just try to understand, its rather subtle you see rather subtle. And you see the subtler point of it. Because at a human awareness, we cannot think unclear (a light), its difficult and we cannot understand the absolute. It’s a much subtler thing. But supposing if something happens to us, in a way, that we all feel the same way about something. Then there is no problem, no conflict. Who is the other? 

Interviewer: But don’t you underestimate the human being? 

Shri Mataji: No they become greater. We are underestimating keeping them lower level to fight among themselves, to quarrel, to have jealousies, we have problems this that. 

Interviewer: Yes yes, that human being also has got civilization.

Shri Mataji: Yes, it has to go beyond. Because where has it reached civilization. Where it has reached? See we have democracy; you see what’s happening into democracy? All kinds of problems of modernism. They have taken to drugs; they have taken to things they are getting destroyed. Sixty five percent people in America are mad. What do you say to this kind of a democracy? 

Then think of a communism that you have brought to the human beings. Where is it landing? What ever we human beings do, you see all what ever you do is a mental projection. Alright? it has no sustenance in it. So, it will cause world unclear (), science has developed, in science you have got atomic energy, you are not controlling there is no balance. We have developed all kinds of machineries everything , now you have acid rain. Have it. There is no balance. There is no understanding. There is no integration. So, the human being is not complete. The totality is not there. Is not felt its totality. Is expansion. And that expansion takes place when you become the Spirit. That’s why we are human beings. We have to become that. 

Interviewer: How did you get into this? 

Shri Mataji: I was born like that. 

Interviewer: But it says in the book, I read, until 1970’s you …

Shri Mataji: I didn’t start the work with others. You see I have to study human beings first of all. Because, you see to give realization to one person is easy but I wanted to be with a mass. Because anything, any discovery unless and until it is not used by masses it has no meaning. So, I have to work out what’s the problem is, why.,

Interviewer: What was your profession that time …? 

Shri Mataji: Nothing, I was a married woman. 

Interviewer: No before …

Shri Mataji: I was doing Medicine.

Interviewer: In India?

Shri Mataji: No, yes, in India.

Actually, now its Pakistan. It used to be, Lahore.

Interviewer: You were Hindu?

Shri Mataji: No, I was born in a Christian family. So called I would say. Because my father was a scholar of Sanskrit, Mother was Honors of a Mathematics and Scholar of Sanskrit. So, I say, they knew all about every religion, my father translated Quran into Hindi. So.,

Interviewer: and You studied medicine?

Shri Mataji: Yes, I studied Medicine.

Interviewer: Did you …

Shri Mataji: No, I couldn’t, I didn’t practice.

Interviewer: You got married

Shri Mataji: Yes, yes.

Interviewer: and then?

Shri Mataji: then, you see actually I studied Medicine just to doctors. Because I have to explain to them what is this, it should be related to scientific methods. So, what is para sympathetic, sympathetic nervous systems. Though I knew all these things, I dint know what the doctors called it. See to talk to them you must know the vocabulary. Like also, 

Interviewer: Exactly.

Shri Mataji: Ya, and also to talk to psychologist, I had to study little bit of psychological terminology like a dictionary I had to know, how to talk to them. So, all this is very subtle, very subtle thing. 

Interviewer: How long did you studied …? 

Shri Mataji: I studied for quite some time, but I gave it up. Because I did not need, I did not all the four years. I didn’t want any more of that education. Because it was not necessary for me. What was necessary for me is to relate to the doctors. Now there are so many doctors who are my disciples. In India there are three doctors who got their MD because of Sahaja Yoga, they worked on psychosomatic diseases like cancer and all that and it was cured with Sahaja Yoga, they have proved it, then they worked on, another one has done I think Asthma, third one has done on physical thing. They all got their MDs from Delhi university. There are seven doctors in London who are doing research on medicine. And there are so many diseases been cured by this. Unclear (happened now). 

Interviewer: That was my next question.

Shri Mataji: Alright. 

Interviewer: In the book it also says that it cures lots of diseases…

Shri Mataji: Yes Yes, automatically. 

Interviewer: How did it happen? 

Shri Mataji: Its very simple. I will explain. You are a doctor?

Interviewer: No, I am a journalist. 

Shri Mataji: Yes water is better {Shri Mataji addressing to yogi}

Interviewer: May we take a picture while …

Shri Mataji: Please, please, please

I was not facing you though

Interviewer: Sorry?

Shri Mataji: The picture you took was not facing you, is it alright? I was on the sides.

Interviewer: The light is coming from the back that’s no good but once the interview is over I will take another picture. Ok?

Shri Mataji: then you can take, alright.

He is from America, he is from East, he is from Austria, she is from America, then she is from Turkey, no the other one behind, she is from Turkey and she got her realization in Austria I think. Isn’t it? 

I am asking about you. 

Yogini: From Greece, I am from Greece.

Shri Mataji: You are from Greece. 

She is from Greece, little bit unclear(see/free) now.

Aan, that’s another one who looks like her from Turkey.

Yogi: Yes, from Greece.

Shri Mataji: Then this one is from Spain, he is the doctor from Spain and then we have one from Iran, he is a agriculture expert and he has done with Sahaja Yoga experiments in agriculture, and he is wonderful things he has found out and he is from Rome. 

Interviewer: Rome?

Shri Mataji: Rome.

Interviewer: Where do you all live? In your own countries? 

Shri Mataji: Of course, in their own homes.

Interviewer: And you just came to meet? 

Yogi: To help with the program.

Shri Mataji: We lead a very normal life, we are a house holders, we are not unclear (asserters, no extremist) nature. We are only., to look at we are all are unclear () but we have a, we should say …

Interviewer: but you claim you are unclear ()

Shri Mataji: No, not claim, we have definitely an awareness, awareness which can be called as collective consciousness which Yung has described. You might have read about Yung.

Interviewer: Yung?

Shri Mataji: Disciple of Roy, he has talked about it. The collective consciousness. That after self-realization, you get a new awareness called collective consciousness and that’s what you feel.

Interviewer: when you have the collective consciousness, 

Shri Mataji: then you can feel the other person, what are their problems on their centers, you can feel your own problems, and if you know how to correct that, you can correct it.

Interviewer: In that case if let’s say, president bush Gorbachev decides that they should get collective consciousness all the people around the world then all the matters, all the problems will be finished. 

Shri Mataji: That’s it. Now you hit the point. You have hit the point.

Interviewer: why don’t you make a proposal then?

Shri Mataji: aww that’s difficult. But Gorbachev is already a realized soul no doubt. But he will come to us very soon I know. But I don’t know about others. Bush, I don’t know. You see its difficult. Its difficult I tell you with bureaucrats they believe that they are the rulers. 

Interviewer: They are politicians.

Shri Mataji: Politicians, but they don’t believe that’s a greater politician and a greater ruler. So, you see, its difficult. They are not so subtle also? But may be may be we can’t say, we can’t say now. In Russia we found so many ministers coming to us. Russia is the best country for this idea now. 

Interviewer: East Europe might be lot of 

Shri Mataji: Let us see, I mean, 

Interviewer: potential places …

Shri Mataji: Yes, lot of potential here also I think lot of potential is there in Turkey, people are very wise. Among all the Muslim nations I think they are the wisest. Somehow, somehow. I don’t know the explanation.

Interviewer: What other Muslim countries? 

Shri Mataji: All of them, most of them I have visited because of my husband’s job. I visited unclear (), I visited Turkey is the first time I mean last you see, and but you see because of my husband travelled everywhere because he is in that kind of a job I have been to China, I have been to Russia before, Australia, everywhere. 

Interviewer: And this aspects about curing diseases, what kind of attraction do you get for instance in Turkey last year a doctor all of a sudden came up with a solution that he cured cancer. 

Shri Mataji: Not everyone, its not a guarantee that’s one thing you must know. If you get your self-realization, then only. 

Interviewer: No, I mean the aspect of 

Shri Mataji: Cancer

Interviewer: curing diseases. Not only cancer.

Shri Mataji: ya, so many, so many, so many diseases can be cured. Because they are caused by these centers that you., can you show that picture to her, I will show her then she will understand it. Just show me I will show her. Then she will understand, see now.

See these are the subtle centers. These are in the spinal cord, this is in the brain where the optic chiasma is. And this at the end of it was this fontanelle bone area which is a very soft bone in childhood. Now what happens is that these are the two energies called as sympathetic nervous systems. This is the left sympathetic nervous system, this is the right sympathetic nervous system. In the medical terms they do not consider them as two but in our science we do. So this one get us for your emotional side, and this one get us for your action side. So, see due to the moment of this left and right, what happens that you form a kind of a center like this. Say this as unclear () if you start using too much of right, then you start moving like that but something happened on the left, just pulls out it and then the relation with the whole is lost that’s how cancer is caused. And you go into malignancy. Because you see you become a person like a malignant person who just on his own. He has no relationship with the whole. So, like that the cells starts rolling. Like all these centers that are here, they cause certain diseases and if these centers are nourished by the Kundalini, which is here, say now this one causes mostly all the muscular diseases. This one is very important. Then all these centers if they could be properly nourished, all of your problems are solved. Because these are very subtle, and these are the foundations of our physical being. See this the knowledge of the roots. We have the knowledge of the tree. And if you don’t have the knowledge of the roots, the tree is going to fall out. 

Interviewer: What do the, I am sure You have lot of relations with medical doctors around the world and as you said you have 

Shri Mataji: you don’t need much qualification for that. 

Interviewer: medical doctors in your vicinity, what do they say to this unclear ()

Shri Mataji: they accept it, because they have seen it. You see they are honest. They are honest people. So, they accept it that I workout the parasympathetic nervous system, it works out. If you are honest, then you definitely see something, you accept it. 

Interviewer: But unfortunately, it doesn’t work in all cases right?

Shri Mataji: Most of the cases it does. Most of the cases 

Interviewer: doesn’t it, I mean in the booklet it was saying that they must be important for the patients, how the patient would react. 

Shri Mataji: You see like which I would say, its free because we don’t charge anything. Now, if they go to any doctor, doctor charges them. So they take it up seriously. They don’t take up this seriously you see, 

Interviewer: But in most cases 

Shri Mataji: and our job is not to cure people. That’s not our job. Our job is to give them realization. We are not here to cure people. Useless people must unclear () cure in depth. They will get another disease, get another disease, another disease. We want the totality to be alright.

Interviewer: Did you meet by the way Mrs. Gandhi? Indira Gandhi?

Shri Mataji: Of course. Why not? Very much.

Interviewer: I mean, did she know about this? 

Shri Mataji: No no no. She did not. She was a politician out and out. 

Interviewer: Why didn’t you try to

Shri Mataji: Oh, she is a politician, I don’t try politicians. 

Interviewer: You don’t like them?

Shri Mataji: No, I like the ones who are subtle, who think about, we have many politicians who are in Sahaja Yoga. But those who are not, are not. We cannot force them. You see they live on mental level you see. Ego satisfactions, they don’t seek the ultimate. So, we shouldn’t bother about such people. Why should we waste our energy? Arguing with them? 

Interviewer: that then we have to deny them unclear ()

Shri Mataji: you see the time might come that only the people who are realized souls might be get it. Might be.

Interviewer: Sorry?

Shri Mataji: Only after some time politicians who are realized souls will be elected, I think so. Ya, it will come. 

Interviewer: Do you think unclear () should be elected, 

Shri Mataji: Yes, they would be, they are not surely. 

Interviewer: should there be elections?

Shri Mataji: No no, they will be elected naturally, because when they will be doing good work, when people will see their characters, their temperaments, their honesty, their dedication naturally people//

Interviewer: When you say they will be elected naturally, what do You mean?

Shri Mataji: You see, as soon as they come up to that level they will, you see we don’t determine a time. There is, be on time.

Interviewer: and there should be campaigns, there should be 

Shri Mataji: No, we will not do any campaigns, there is no need. For a genuine person there is no need to have campaign and anything. It just works it. You see my father great politician in the sense that he was with Gandhiji, I was also with Gandhiji and he went to jail so many times – my father and he was a member of the assembly-central assembly then of the constituent assembly then of the parliament. My brother is even now the member of the parliament. He was the minister of unclear ()

Interviewer: is he in the parliament? 

Shir Mataji: he is yes and another brother is a high court judge and all that, but my father’s quality I saw that he used no money for his election, nothing. He just got elected. Because everybody knew what sort of a man he was. But for other they have to spend thousands and thousands.

Interviewer: Ya, but that was long time ago and he was together with Gandhi ji. Mahatma Gandhi.

Shri Mataji: Even today, yes even today, even today if there are genuine people, they will be just elected. No problem no problem. 

Interviewer: How will that happen?

Shri Mataji: That will happen because people want somebody like that. They are getting aware. That will happen. We have Lal Bahadur Sastry was a very honest man. 

Interviewer: Sorry?

Shri Mataji: Lal Bahadur Sastry who was our Prime Minister, you know very honest man. And he got elected without any campaign or anything. 

Interviewer: and You said that You saw some kind of potential in Gorbachev right?

Shri Mataji: Yes, it is. Gorbachev has, he thinks, he thinks in a way, what is benevolent for you. That peace must be brought it. And he thought that if I unclear(receive) back, 

Interviewer: You believe he is sincere?

Shri Mataji: Yes, he is very wise, if I receive it back, then the fear of the war will be over. And they will also have to unclear(receive) back. He is a very wise man. 

Interviewer: Okey, Thank you very much. I have to take another picture of You do not wear spectacles …

Shri Mataji: Alright wherever you say. 

Interviewer: The light is, 

Shri Mataji: now, where do unclear (got, dark?) 

Interviewer: No, it is not, no good.

Shri Mataji: Should I sit there?

Interviewer: Ya, if you could, please mam

Shri Mataji: You must again read about it and see it for yourself. It’s a very subtle subject, is to be handled very subtle. Its not politics. 

But she can see Gorbachev different, that’s a good point. 

Interviewer: Thank you.

Shri Mataji: May God bless you.

Interviewer: Thank you very much.

Shri Mataji: Thank you.

{—— First interview is over ——}

{Discussion before the interviewer leave the place}

Yogi: Another one is coming

Shri Mataji: What time?

Shri Mataji: Sit down, sit down.

Interviewer: unclear () can you call the taxi for her? Do you know the taxi’s number? 

Yogi: No …

Interviewer: Oh really? Unclear () 

We are just to walkdown to unclear (), we are just unclear () so they don’t know, is there a station nearby? 

Yogi: Ya there is there is. 

Interviewer: Unclear () I have a handy cam, 

Even my leg was unclear ()

Shri Mataji: Why 

Interviewer: Unclear ()

Shri Mataji: Unclear ()

Somebody can drop her 

Yogi: You should get the experience also

Interviewer: Sorry?

Yogi: You should try also 

Shri Mataji: Its difficult

Interviewer: I will come this evening

Shri Mataji: You are coming? Alright. 


Interviewer: Thank you very much.

Shri Mataji: Thank you. Bye Bye. 

Unclear () Yesterday’s lady was tremendous.

Unclear () quality is quality

Shri Mataji: More worried about quality unclear ()

Shri Mataji: Still journalism is a big problem. Its not easy to convince journalist in England at all. Like the fellow says that Anglos x and y you cannot understand anything unclear (), I couldn’t understand. I said how much money did you pay to your mother for being born? Unclear () you see its impossible to understand these people. They think that they get nothing from unclear () without money, nothing. They say at that unclear () nothing. 

Yogi: unclear () Mother since thousands of years only, you can tell them, so unclear () and when you tell it, people think of it. 

Shri Mataji: No, I told him. I told him, I told him. How much did you pay for getting born.

{====== Second Interview starts ======}

Haa, she is… yes, please come.

Interviewer: Welcome to unclear (Star book?)

Shri Mataji: Hello, please

Yogi: Hello

Interviewer: Hello

Yogi: One of the biggest newspapers in Turkey

Shri Mataji: Really? Please be seated.

Would you like tea? 

Interviewer: No, thank you. I have just had some tea. 

Interviewer: It’s your second time in the …

Shri Mataji: Yes, second time I am visiting yes. 

Interviewer: How many people in your group … 

Shri Mataji: In Turkey?

Interviewer: In Turkey.

Shri Mataji: I have no idea. How many? 

Yogis: Forty, fifty? 

Shri Mataji: I just unclear () so changed, your face is so much changed you know, isn’t it? You changed, your face is much younger. 

Yogini: Thank you Shri Mataji.

Shri Mataji: Isn’t she?

Yogi: Yes Shri Mataji

Shri Mataji: She lost all her wrinkles I think, that’s why I couldn’t make her out. 

Yogi: She is meditating a lot. 

Shri Mataji: That’s why. She is looking much younger; I mean I couldn’t make her out I am sorry. 

Yogi: They are good compliments 

Shri Mataji: You are recording everything? Alright.

Interviewer: before coming to our appointment, I had to look at articles which had appeared in foreign newspapers about You that may I hear from You once again (and the essential) the essence of your practice. 

Shri Mataji: You see, to begin with we should say that at human awareness we do not know the Absolute Truth. That’s why there are problems you see. You think differently, the other person thinks differently, nation wise we think differently, we have different theories and we believe that this is the Truth you see, but its not the absolute. If it was the absolute, it should be one. So there is something lacking in human being one has to understand that point. Now, if we cannot find, that truth, that absoluteness in us then one should be worried about it and that such people we call them as seekers of Truth. Now they are many all over the world. Within them lies the power to connect them to that roof that all-pervading subtle power. Now, I would say Mohammad Sahab has talked about it, everybody has talked about it but nobody has felt it. And that’s why people start challenging that how do you say that’s truth unclear (). The time has come now to feel it, to know it. And that is just you have to be connected. For that this power lies with the triangular bone, which has to raise, and then you become a very subtler being as the Spirit. And the Spirit starts asserting its light or spreading its light in your attention. And a personality completely changes. Completely changes. 

Interviewer: Is it difficult to reach that point?

Shri Mataji: May I pardon?

Interviewer: Is it difficult to reach …

Shri Mataji: No it’s the easiest.

Interviewer: Is it easy?

Shri Mataji: Sahaj means easiest. Because its so vital. It’s just like sprouting a seed. As you have the seed supposing, built in within you and the Mother Earth is there, which has got the power to sprout your seed, it can.

Interviewer: I understand. And also, you can heal the certain illness with that power?

Shri Mataji: Yes yes automatically. 

Interviewer: AIDS …

Shri Mataji: AIDS means Freud, you see, I must say about AIDS was, we have tried with people, but they have no will power to be alright. Some or other those given up, those people whom we tried. So, sort of they again go back to the bad habits. So, so far we can say there one person you can say as definitely cured. So far. 

Interviewer: With AIDS?

Shri Mataji: With AIDS. One person. But they are very difficult people. Because they have lost hopes and sort of and they cannot overpower their habits. 

Interviewer: and cancer?

Shri Mataji: Cancer yes, 

Interviewer: can be healed?

Shri Mataji: yes blood cancer, other cancers can be.

Interviewer: are there many people? 

Shri Mataji: Who are cured?

Interviewer: who are cured.

Shri Mataji: Oh, quite a lot. Quite a lot.

Interviewer: Well, how many? about? May I ask You?

Shri Mataji: I must tell you, when we tried to gather how many people in Europe and the pile, it was so big, the certificates was so big. Only in Europe. Then in India would be same about. So just can’t say it.

Interviewer: So, May I say Hundreds of people?

Shri Mataji: not only cancer, all kinds of diseases.

Interviewer: Hundreds of people or thousands of people

Shri Mataji: Hundreds, hundreds, hundreds it could be thousands also. Thousands definitely.

Interviewer: and you say especially blood cancer 

Shri Mataji: Specially blood cancer is very good. It works very fast. But if it’s a very galloping stage then it does not. I have seen it. If it’s a very galloping stage, but if it is say not such a galloping stage then it does work out. 

Interviewer: Doest the person gets cured with your power or with 

Shri Mataji: No, with your own power, his own power

Interviewer: His own power? But how? Could You …

Shri Mataji: Because that Kundalini, that power in the triangular bone raises 

Interviewer: from the spine 

Shri Mataji: raises, passes through all the subtle centers which are the foundation of our being.

These are the centers 7. One two three four five six and seven. All these seven centers are subtle centers in our nervous system and they get enriched by this power which raises. With that enrichment everything is corrected. Even mental diseases even schizophrenia.

Interviewer: also…

Shri Mataji: Yes of course. Even some children who are mentally retarded I have seen three or four, they got cured. But this happening has to take place. If it does not take place, then its not possible. This has to take place. In some people it does not. 

Interviewer: What does block this power to raise 

Shri Mataji: Blocks? 

Interviewer: if somebody, for example doesn’t believe, in the exercise may this block?

Shri Mataji: You see, one should not believe into anything blindly. It’s not good. See this blind faith is one of the biggest problems I think into anything. ‘I believe’ but where are you? I mean which is that ‘I’ that believe into something you see. Actually it should be allow to happen and there are blockage like some people are very emotional type, extremely emotional and there are attached to things, some people are very mental. Even mental is the very big blockage, they are only mental you see they just start a unclear () doubting themselves – how can I get it, how can I be alright all these are a mental sort of a blockages within us. Could be also sometimes I think some sort of a spiritual blockage. Like you have been to a wrong person, you have been to a false guru somebody like that. That unclear(blockage) also there. Mostly cancer is caused by that. Cancer is cause by going to a wrong person. Like some Phakeer comes in some transcendental meditation or some sort of a thing, where you have to pay money, you see, that’s what falsehood. How can you pay money for God? You can’t. 

Interviewer: Yes, I have read that in an article you explained it to a unclear(foreigner) and one normally its not very difficult …

Shri Mataji: Normally no. no no no. no no.

Interviewer: and your unclear () works with the united general …

Shri Mataji: Yes yes he is secretary general, he is an elected member. He is elected by under thirty four nations, one of them is Turkey, with the last four times anonymously he was elected. 

Interviewer: I see, 

Shri Mataji: and now he was unclear () at seventy years of age.

Interviewer: and do You have children?

Shri Mataji: Yes, I have big girls, my elder daughter is forty two years of age, 

Interviewer: and how many …

Shri Mataji: Two daughters and four grandchildren.

Interviewer: and are there any spiritual, any proven someone’s practices through yoga, are there any special foods or way of life one should take…? 

Shri Mataji: No, see actually, supposing you see somebody very mental person unclear (), we call him a right sided person. Futuristic, plans too much this that. For such a person we prescribe they should have more carbohydrates. Supposing somebody is a very emotional person and he is left sided we call that person. For such a person we say he should have more proteins. So, it is depending on the personality of the nature of the person. There is no restriction or the food of any kind. But you must know what is good for you. All these things are outside. But they do help in a way to balance. 

Interviewer: I am sure many Turkish people will be interested …

Shri Mataji: Very much, very much. They are wonderful people here I must say. 

Interviewer: Have been people would come to conference and I am sure but for the ones who won’t be able to come to Your conference, there would be people to give some advice for example what one should do to get self-realization?

Shri Mataji: We have a center here. Permanently. We have people will do this job for us here. You see there is some people who came from unclear () settled down here, they started this work. Now they will go away. Because now we have treated some people to do this job. They are Turkish. We didn’t have a proper translator last time you see. And then we somehow managed last time but this time is much better. The situation is much better.

Interviewer: so, they can come to the center …

Shri Mataji: yes, of course they can always come, ask help from them, and we work for agriculture also, it helps a lot in agricultural growth. Yes yes, these vibrations you see, this divine power helps you like we have a expert here, he was in the UN agricultural expert. He is a Irani gentleman and now he is in Austria and he experimented with trees and with sun flower seeds and things, I have also experimented. And you get ten times more. Without using hybrid, without using hybrid, without using much maneuver just with these vibrations unclear () you see this is the subtle power which nourishes everything. It starts flowing through your hands. When we give vibrations to it, it just works. It’s the vitality. 

Interviewer: Interesting, are there any interesting fields like …

Shri Mataji: Ya, educational. For example, the children becomes such good children. Very obedient, very wise, very sensible, confident, very righteous, virtuous. I mean it’s a very different, what should say? Another kingdom that is creation you can say area where you see all beautiful people. My husband says they are all Angels? They are all Angels he says I can’t understand. They become very honest, very loving, very compassionate, dynamic. Some and also say artists. Now we have some Indian musicians who were not very well known and they were trying to improve themselves, just by sahaja yoga now they are well known all over the world they are known. It works in every field. Because you see it gives you the basic vitality. The nourishment. Even journalism unclear ()

Interviewer: even?

Shri Mataji: Even journalism.

Interviewer: Even journalism?

Shri Mataji: How, I tell you. Because a journalist has to be a witness, a pure witness and he should not be, or she should not be a biased person. She should not have conditionings to be truthful. So she should be able to see something witnessed something without reflecting. If there is no not(such) sort of a personality, then you can be biased. You might give another picture. To give the true picture, you have to be a witness and you develop that witness state. 

Interviewer: It is very interesting, maybe I may come to center later on at least to get some unclear () by you.

Shri Mataji: Yes of course, of course you will get it. 

Yogini: It’s free of charge. 

Shri Mataji: Yes

Interviewer: Yes, and would it be possible to give some names for example in Europe are there any famous people like say artists, or any kind of people Turkish people with a chance of knowing in your groups …

Shri Mataji: You see, actually famous people have so much ego, rich people or Christ has said that they cannot enter into the kingdom of God. So, you see there is so much ego there. And they go to false people because they think that they can purchase it, they can pay for it. So they go to these people. All famous people are to go to such people as they have money, they can purchase there. So, they don’t come to something that is simple. Something where you cannot pay. Because their ego is not satisfied.

Interviewer: what kind of people are that are mostly 

Shri Mataji: We have professionals, all kinds of doctors, architects and everything but not somebody who is very successful unclear (you see the word anyway) because he is lost already. And person who is, we have some of that kind I should say we have some many big businessmen also like Rajesh and all that, they are tycoons in India but we have some very few so we shouldn’t say that we have many. But when they come to Sahaja Yoga, they become rich. Artists become very rich. Like you must have heard about name of Unclear (Amzad Ali), he is a sarod player. Inaudible () and we have one Devi Chowdary all of them they came to Sahaja Yoga and they prospered a lot. So, we have people like that. Prosperity comes like, in England now such an unemployment there. But all those who are Sahaja yogis, they all employed very well. Because you become so dynamic. See you become so dynamic, you become so healthy, your attention becomes so concentrated that you just shine out. 

Interviewer: Well, I thank You very much. 

Shri Mataji: Thank you. 

Interviewer: I think I have a general idea; I will try to come to the conference as well, 

Shri Mataji: Please do come, please come. 

Interviewer: if I can not then you can we can sure that try to unclear (gasser) up everything as far as I …

Shri Mataji: You can come little later, little later, its going to be unclear (12:45) sometime, it’s not at 7. And it will last till evening unclear (). Do come and get your realization. That’s important. 

Interviewer: I really will try to attend this

Shri Mataji: you should not miss this. Very important. 

Interviewer: Yes, because in our work, we never know we will be free unclear ()

Shri Mataji: I know. 

Interviewer: that’s the problem otherwise if I am free … oh, tomorrow. 

Yogini: She is just asking about my unclear ()

Shri Mataji: But this house is Carla’s. 

Interviewer: And I think there are some people who came here …

Shri Mataji: Yes, this one, he is from America, he is a lawyer from Greece then we have another one from Greece this is doctor, that’s she is a business lady, there she is American. She is from Iran, she is from Rome.

Interviewer: there are from everywhere.

Shri Mataji: Yes, we have from 36 nations. 

Interviewer: 36

Shri Mataji: Only Turkey I came little late. That’s all unclear ()

Interviewer: And are there often people travelling with you when you travel around?

Shri Mataji: Not normally. Not normally. But these were all had come for a seminar 

Interviewer: I see

Shri Mataji: So, from there they have come here. Normally they don’t. They are about 700 people and 50 children there for the seminar.

Interviewer: Where?

Shri Mataji: It was, what is that unclear ()

Yogi: Montecatini Terme 

Shir Mataji: Montecatini 

Interviewer: Excuse me, how many people were there?

Shri Mataji: About 700. My husband was also there this time.

Interviewer: Was he, and now how many people are there with you? Who came from abroad?

Yogi: Above 30

Shri Mataji: 30 have come?

Yogi: More or less

Shri Mataji: Really, I didn’t know. We have bit glow. You see it’s like, like this hand supposing it has a problem, the whole body rushes towards it. And you will be surprised in Russia they were forty of them, they came from all over. I never wrote to them or asked them. They just rushed in. You see, feeling of oneness. Who is the other? 

Interviewer: Did you already have a center there? 

Shri Mataji: Where in Russia? 

Interviewer: Yes

Shri Mataji: No, we never had

Interviewer: never?

Shri Mataji: No, but what had happened that there is a somebody who came to know about us in India. Because we are well known in India about this. Because there are three doctors who has got MD in Sahaja Yoga for curing cancer, curing this that. So, some or the other they came to know about us, and they invited us. When I went there, there these people came to know that I was going. They all rushed through. And we are bout forty people and now they have given us., and we are the only organization, they have given us unclear (absolutes) independent identity. Officially they have given to us. Nobody, they never given it to any non-Russian organization but they have given us so we can invite anybody, we can do what we like and purchase anything as an independent thing. But there are thousands there now. We don’t know what to do. I mean in hall they were two thousand, and outside they were two thousand.

Interviewer: May I ask you one last question, that mark You have (Interviewer addressing Bindi on forehead)

Shri Mataji: It’s a sign of a married lady in India.

Yogini: There is no relation to Sahaja Yoga?

Shri Mataji: No, no relation, but also, is in a way because this is the center of Agnya, we can say this is the window of Angnya chakra. Which is on the optic chiasma and its important in a way because when you put this, you see it’s a red mark, you do not absorb negativity. 

Interviewer: Oh.

Shri Mataji: In a subtler way. With the eyes you see you absorb lots of things then this is when the optic chiasma is the center is Agnya. So, when you cover it up with red you see, the negativity runs away. But that is not followed in India, people don’t k now about the subtle things. It must have been done long time back by saints and things. So, they accepted as a ritual for a married women. They have to wear this, they have to wear this, they have to wear this for married ladies are regarded as Goddesses in India in a way. You see, married ladies, a housewife and she has to decorate her, you see there is a power in this wrist also so she has to wear something here, also a toe ring and all these things she must wear a married lady.

Interviewer: Yes, I know that Indian ladies wear this mark, but I was just wondering there are different marks or only one

Shri Mataji: No, only here

Interviewer: Only there is one. I see. 

Well, I thank you very much again. Now I try to take some photos. 

{—— Second interview is over ——}

{Discussion while taking the photographs of Shri Mataji}

Shri Mataji: I will sit there because you see the lights, just move it the other way round 

Interviewer: I can use flash

Shri Mataji: you have flash. But this is the light I think unclear ()

Interviewer: You have the flowers, you unclear () so nice. 

Shri Mataji: Alright unclear () as long as your flash is unclear ()

There are some very miraculous photographs also. But we don’t show normally to people unless they are settle down in Sahaja Yoga. I mean there are photographs with light behind me, light in my hand, light in my heart all kinds. Recently we had a photograph of my brain completely. Its very remarkable of …

Energy, because I think the cameras are very sensitive. One journalist got a photograph of like that. 

Interviewer: I will have to take many photos just to be sure that I have at least one … 

Shri Mataji: I hope to get one miraculous one. 

Interviewer: Would it be possible to you to explain to me something with your right hand. It will be more natural. I mean just move Your right-hand while You talk to me. 

Shri Mataji: Its not the feel na, just a …

Interviewer: It’s very good like this. Yes. Thank you. Unclear ()

Shri Mataji: they are so anxious to take my photographs.

Interviewer: I want to take some photos with Your group unclear (), would it be …

Shri Mataji: You two come and sit here, like stand behind me unclear () somebody, they can sit here, 

Yogi: You can move a little. 

Interviewer: Can you move this chair, because the light is coming here. 

Shri Mataji: Yes yes yes its better. 

They are all beautiful people. There’s a glow on their faces. 

All the flowers there. 

Interviewer: But there won’t be any space for people 

Shri Mataji: Somebody sit here, remove some flowers, la come along, Karla you come and sit here. But there supposed to be some space for you,

Interviewer: unclear ()

Shri Mataji: Then you get all of us? I thinks its unclear () distance. So will sit here will be better? Will move out little bit ahead. Its alright. 

Interviewer: Sorry for the trouble. 

Shri Mataji: You can close the door. Ganesh, you come along

Interviewer: Is it possible for you to sit here? Would it be possible? And will take the other lady to your left. I will please ask you to stand as near as possible. Now you are too far away

Shri Mataji: Yes yes better, to have so many people you can’t have flowers. They must have had thousands of photographs, they were satisfied. 

Are we there all of us? 

Interviewer: We will take some more photos please. 

Thank you very much

Shri Mataji: Thank you. 

Interviewer: One more picture with you and with you lady 

Shri Mataji: Sit here

Interviewer: Yes, it will be very good. 

Interviewer: What’s the harm? They feel shy. 

{Interviewer taking pictures of Shri Mataji with yoginis}

Shri Mataji: You give us a copy, isn’t it?

Interviewer: Yes of course I will. 

Thank you very much.

Shri Mataji: Thank you. 

What’s your name?

Interviewer: Guisin

Shri Mataji: Guisin, G, which starts with G? 

Interviewer: It starts with G.

Shri Mataji: Guisin, what’s the meaning?

Interviewer: G?

Shri Mataji: does it has some meaning?

Interviewer: Oh, yes it means rare.

Yogini: Selected or rare

Interviewer: something which we have found rare

Shri Mataji: Oh, that’s a great thing. 

Interviewer: Very nice to meet you. 

Yogi: You can take a picture of you with Shri Mataji. 

Interviewer: Of course

Shri Mataji: Alright, lets come, alright doesn’t matter 

Interviewer: Maybe it would be nicer if You put your arm on me

Thank you. 

Shri Mataji: Its love that’s all. Its power of love. And we have never used it before. We don’t be use unclear () its power of love. She is got it; she is got it already. You felt that. Taken so many photographs of mine, you cant escape it. She’s got it. Feeling the cool breeze now, just see. 

Yogis: No

Now It’s coming

Shri Mataji: feeling relaxed, in the hand? 

Interviewer: Yes

Shri Mataji: So, its works out. 

Unclear (Your name is), you are the selected one. 

Interviewer: Oh, unclear(She/It is really cute) very interesting feeling.

Shri Mataji: Ya, very interesting, you feel very happy within yourself. Very joyous.

Interviewer: Thank you very much madam.

Shri Mataji: May God bless you.

Interviewer: I will come to the conference. 

Shri Mataji: Please do.