Shri Mataji: (Addressing the room). There are lots of people who are seekers today. That’s how I have come back again.
And the truth is, that we are the Spirit. Now in these modern times when people only talk of science, people cannot believe that there is something like the Spirit and that there can be all-pervading power, a subtle pervading power which does thinking for us, organizing for us and which also loves us.
Some [UNCLEAR] think too much of it. [UNCLEAR] important so [UNCLEAR] equally important.
But if you have a scientific attitude towards it, then it can be proved. If you take it as a hypothesis, then it can be proved that there is an all-pervading power, subtle power that exists. Because it is the rule of English, and then later on followed by the certain attitude of intellectuals, we should say, we have tried to sort of put some clouds on this truth which was there. But it exists. It is there. And, in Sahaja Yoga, we can prove the existence of this all-pervading power.
That means you can feel it on your fingertips. This all-pervading power, you can feel it as a cool breeze on your fingertips. And when this power which we call as Kundalini rises, it pierces through six centres, subtle centres, and emerges out, of your fontanelle bone area, which we call it as “tat”. And that’s how you get your self-realization. Now we had saints in this country, so many saints have been there, and they were people of extraordinary character. They never did anything wrong, they never murdered anyone, they never hankered after money, they didn’t trouble anyone, and they were such righteous people. And nobody told them to be. They were just like that, they were like angels. And now the time has come, that/then we have to become like that. This is a very big evolutionary step, one more jump. We have come to the stage of human beings, we have to jump one more where we have to become saintly, in the sense we become righteous, virtuous, very powerful, dynamic as well as very compassionate. So these things have to happen. Have been predicted by many people. And the time has come in this Kalayuga, as they call it.
People are so much under pressure, that they are seeking much more than ever did before. This trouble of life is too much, and they have no absolute answers. Everybody says they are right. But nobody has been able to prove that it is an Absolute. In Sahaja Yoga, you can prove it, that it is an Absolute. Because you can feel it on your fingertips, even on your hands, you can feel it. And then if you can decode it, and you should know what are the centres five plus, seven centres, left-hand side, emotional side and [UNCLEAR] mental side, you can easily even diagnose the disease of a person. You can cure. You can bring mental peace to a person.
Now people talk of peace foundations. But they have no peace in them. Those who get Nobel prizes for peace, I have seen they have no peace in themselves. You don’t have peace within yourself, how can you talk of foundation?
So, you become a person who is in a witness state. That means you become thoughtless. And you can see you are aware, very aware. And you can see the beauty in art, the joy of that image within yourself without thinking about it.
Apart from that, the whole system transforms into a personality which feels the collective consciousness [UNCLEAR] “Samuhik Chetna”. Now, this collective consciousness is vibrations means vibrations, you can feel another person’s centres. You can feel your centres. Sitting down here you can feel the centres of anybody you want to. Because it is like a very subtle ether. Into every, anyone Kundalini [UNCLEAR], that knowledge is there.
And this is our heritage. [UNCLEAR] is our heritage. Science is not our heritage. Science has no humanity. The countries who have gone, too far in science have to sit back now. Because it has created problems. Tremendous problems of humanity, social life and even…(pause)
Question: [UNCLEAR] people from history?
Shri Mataji: So people have taken to extreme quality and, ah, democracy, democracy. And somebody said no, communism is alright. But both are wrong, in their own style.
Communism is wrong because the wealth is of [UNCLEAR]. Now say, I have got powers supposing, of healing others, curing others, doing everything, joy, everything then I am capitalist. But I can’t keep it to myself. I have to give it to others. So I am a communist. So these theories are artificial because they deal with material things. And material things cannot be useful. Because in a sense, economic wants are not satiable, in general. That doesn’t mean.. you should have material things. But there should be a balance. Out of the way they have gone to produce now, plastic. In America now they have created mountains and mountains, in bags. Mountains and mountains of plastic, they don’t know what to do. Cannot dump it in the sea. You cannot burn it. Now they have got acid rain, another problem which is such a big problem that they are saying at least 70% of their trees will be lost in acid. The ecological problem, then all the ports you will find the problem, on the seashores where they are full of trash from the many ships which, they have carried all these oils and everything.
So out of proportion they have…and we have to know that machines are for us, we are not for machines. Now, they have become the slave of the machine, they can’t take it. You will be surprised that in England, you cannot get anything fresh, everything has to be deep freeze?. If you want to take something fresh, then they will say, a fresh pizza will have this type of [UNCLEAR], this kind of insecticide, another will have this kind of poison [UNCLEAR] it will cause you cancer. Every day there’s in the newspaper it’s “don’t eat this because it will cause cancer”.
So this artificiality..(pause)..has created this problem. We have got too [UNCLEAR/proud]. We have to learn from them. Now they are waiting for a shock. Anything is possible. Now, America has taken to drugs. At least sixty-five per cent of people in America are nervous [UNCLEAR/wrecks], they are twitching their eyes, twitching their faces, hands start shaking like this. I mean, you won’t find people like Indians there. I mean you get quite nervous; their hands are shaking like this. Young people. And drug addiction. Drug addiction is a tremendous problem. That has come because they are not satisfied with life. They want to run away, its an escape.
But why are they trying to escape, if they are affluent, which they are? And in the most affluent countries like say, Switzerland, and Sweden, Norway, these are the most affluent. In those countries, there is a competition going on, in committing suicides. So Indians must [UNCLEAR] of course we have to come in the centre. We are too much materialistic; too much bound by conditionings and our wrong ideas about God, in general, the caste system. Dominating women everywhere. And all kinds of injustices in the name of religion, scheduled caste this, that. Religion cannot be unjust, cannot. But it has happened. Because it has gone into the hands of people who are not religious, actually. They just claim they are. They are mostly fundamentalists.
It has to go into the hands of people who are saints. But the saints when they came here they were tortured. That’s how spirituality is on the wrong lines. If it comes to the right side, right, proper righteous way, you will be amazed, Sahaja Yoga you can increase the yield of the crops ten times. Some with that you can have…I had a sunflower which was so big a plant. I produced out of sixty kilos of rice, one-thousand-four-hundred kilos of the husks, rice, we can say. One-thousand-four-hundred that, in one acre. because this Chaitanya starts flowing through you. This All Pervading power starts flowing through with that you can do anything, there are many..but.. [UNCLEAR]
Question: How can this power? You mean this Kundalini, Sahaja Yoga and all.
Shri Mataji: Pardon?
Question: The power Sahaja Yoga, transforming…
Shri Mataji: Yes.
Question: That is actually Kundalini Yoga.
Shri Mataji: Yes, Sahaja Yoga. Sahaja. Sa means with, ja means born. Born with you. It is within yourself. In the triangular bone lies this power. It’s like any instrument has to be put to the mains. In the same way, we are [UNCLEAR]. Then we start acting like a computer.
And the whole transformation takes place. Now the Sahaja Yoga is working out in quite.. [UNCLEAR].
In Russia, we have very good people. Russian people, I don’t know how to say, they are very silent minded, their bent of mind is, they are very intelligent. And when I went there, I was amazed at the way these people accept it. Absolutely. Two thousand people in the hall, some were outside. I didn’t know what to do. They said, “Mother” when I came out they said, “Mother, aren’t you going to give us Self Realisation?” And I said “Alright tomorrow you come along, you sit outside. And all those who were inside, and outside were there in the morning. It’s spreading like a religion. People are just taking to Sahaja Yoga.
And we had called some from doctors there, they came there. They gave some papers. Also, we had three doctors in Delhi who had done M.D. in Sahaja Yoga on different subjects of, [UNCLEAR], asthma and psychosomatic diseases. There they saw it, they understood it and accepted it. And the doctor who is in charge of the department there. Immediately he said, I am not going to visit anymore. And he gave us an independent charge, independent organisation. We are the only ones who are an independent organization. So see their alertness, see they are [UNCLEAR]. And it is our heritage. You see, the problem is, so difficult to take to that.. [UNCLEAR]..talked of Atmasakshatkar (Self Realisation).
All the saints have talked about it. And it should not be difficult. Where they have not done anything about religion, how they jump in. Because there is no conditioning. Because of our so-called religious conditioning, we are spoiled.
Question: In what way is it religious conditioning..other forms of yoga, so many forms of yoga?
Shri Mataji: See, there are other forms like you can say, Hatha Yoga is there. But actually, the modern Hatha Yoga is not the Hatha Yoga. Because it has to be “Ha” and “Tha”. “Ha” is the Surya, that is the right side and “Tha” is the left side. So the modern Sahaja Yoga does not consider?…[UNCLEAR]. They just do work, right side exercises, this that.
This was Patanjali’s work was done, thousands of years back when we had four ashramas. First of all, Brahmacharya. At that time, they used to select some boys for realisation or they used to cleanse people who used to [UNCLEAR].
Question: This was conceived by Patanjali?
Shri Mataji: Beg pardon?
Question: Was this was conceived by Patanjali?
Shri Mataji: So he accepted it. It was conceived much before that. You can say there were three types of movements in our country. The first one was where the Veda, started where they [UNCLEAR/”vedha”]. Now Veda also [UNCLEAR] “vidha”. “Vidha” and “bodh”, means you should feel it on your central nervous system. It is not mental. Vedas were done just to develop the right side, find out about elements. How we can excite the elements, how we can make them awake for us. That is called the Vedas.
Left side one is the Bhakti by which people tried to call God, invoke Him and make Him.. [UNCLEAR].
The third one was done by Nagpanthees and also [UNCLEAR] and all these people. They worked on the central path [UNCLEAR]. Very, very few people really achieved. We can say that in the tree of life, there were one or two flowers. At the time of Janaka, only one person Nachiketa was given realization by him. He had to go through lots of “pareekshas”, lots of tests were taken and then he was given realisation.
But today I feel its the blossom time. And there are many people who can get realization. So the modern Sahaja Yoga, you can think. Sahaja Yoga is a very ancient thing, nothing new. But Sahaja Yoga which is working en masse today, it has two specialities. The first one you can give it en masse, you can give it to many people. Thousands of people can get their realization. Secondly, without doing any manner, without doing [UNCLEAR], whatever may be the person, he has to first feel [UNCLEAR/awakened]. So when the waking takes place in the Brahma Nadi, there is a little light comes and the person can see what’s wrong with him. Like say you are holding a snake and it is dark, you cant see. You might say it’s not a snake, its a rope. But there’s a little light, you can see and throw it away yourself I don’t have to tell you. In the same way, a little light of the Spirit comes. And in that, and you become your own master. You become your own Guru. You don’t need anyone. And then you yourself correct [UNCLEAR]. And the third thing, you have all the powers. So you can give realization to others. You can cure yourself. And that’s how you know the Spirit.
Like Mr Murthy now. He’s [UNCLEAR]. He’s from [UNCLEAR]. He came to see me in Bombay. He had some physical problem. His wife had some physical problem. They got cured. Then he came down. Nobody saw me in my car. He came. And he gave realization to others and started the session. Then I went there.
So like one enlightened light can enlighten another light. But by itself, it cannot be enlightened. And this is for the emancipation of the whole Earth. See how these people here who are changed or [UNCLEAR], you won’t believe, these are the people from countries like Germany or England, they are so changed, so changed. When they come to this country, they touch this country with their forehead. They say [UNCLEAR].
You can’t pay for it. It’s a living thing. It’s a living thing. Firstly, you cannot pay God money because God does not understand money. You cannot. Those who live on God’s money are UNCLEAR]. And this is something like the sprouting of a seed. You put the seed in the Mother Earth, it [UNCLEAR/comes out] by itself. You don’t have to pay to the Mother Earth. She does it inside. In the same way, it starts within you, the process of evolution. You don’t have to pay for evolution. This is one thing one should understand. And then it works out.
Question: How is it that good people have some problems? Disease [UNCLEAR].
Shri Mataji: Problems. Very simple. You see, supposing a tree is sick, which is there. Now if you try to treat the leaves you cannot cure that. You have to go to the roots. So we go to the roots. And in the roots of our being, there are seven centres. And these seven centres when they go out of order, then these all problems start. Some will be physical, some will be emotional, some will be financial, and some will be [UNCLEAR]. So once the Kundalini starts rising, she puts these centres right. By they get connected, you get integrated, plus she nourishes. And then, when shes connected, all the time you are nourished.
Question: Kundalini is raised through Yoga, Sahaja Yoga?
Shri Mataji: Beg pardon?
Question: Kundalini is raised through Sahaja Yoga.
Shri Mataji: You see, we call it as Sahaja Yoga because Sahaja Yoga has many other things apart from Kundalini. First of all, it establishes a very pure innate wisdom that means, you become absolutely righteous. And you become very powerful, very much very powerful, very magnetic. And you are helped by the all-pervading power. So you don’t have any darr (Hindi: means fear). Whatever you decide, it happens. So you do not have to worry or hanker about anything. So Kundalini Yoga may be a little bit you raise it, then you stop.
After raising the Kundalini, when you are connected you have to grow. Not only just a sprouting an of the Kundalini, but you have to become a tree. So the becoming is important. Like you are of a religion, you can call yourself Hindu, Muslim anything, but you can commit any sin. Not in Sahaja Yoga. Once you get it, you are innately [UNCLEAR]. You just don’t do it.
And we are that. Human beings are that glorious thing. We have no idea about yourself. We don’t know all that. That’s the main point. Once we know ourselves, then it is tremendous. Tremendous. After all, God has not made us just for the waste of time. There must be some purpose.
Question: [UNCLEAR] speaking in [UNCLEAR/Manor]?
Shri Mataji: [UNCLEAR/Manor]..two nights I am speaking there [UNCLEAR]. And we have a very nice centre. And we have many people there, who are very capable. And they can help other people establish themselves. In the beginning, you have too little bit, establish yourself to know where [UNCLEAR] It is very easy to do. And it works out.
Shri Mataji: [UNCLEAR]..a statement? (To Sahaja Yogi): Have you said anything?
Sahaja Yogi clarifies: [UNCLEAR/feeling?]
Shri Mataji: Which is not. We have had so many people [UNCLEAR]. Only thing first people feel a cool breeze coming out before that sometimes there will be heat coming out that’s all. On their hands, they feel [UNCLEAR], nothing has happened. Except for very few people like Rajneesh’s disciples, collapsed, what can I do? They came to my program, they just collapsed. So, I mean, they are people who have done really wrong things.
Question: How is this practice of Sahaja Yoga, some [UNCLEAR/form of meditation]?
Shri Mataji: No, you become. You are in meditation. You don’t have to meditate. But cleansing has to be done morning and evening. Five minutes morning and evening ten minutes. Not too much time. But it cleanses you completely. Then once you are established, there is no point.
Question: For Sahaja Yoga, you start all the centres in India.
Shri Mataji: All?
Question: You manage all the centres?
Shri Mataji: Yes, they manage that. We have centres all over. We have in Bombay, I don’t know how many, maybe more than one dozen, but…
Sahaja Yogi: Eighteen.
Shri Mataji: Ah?
Sahaja Yogi: Eighteen centres.
Shri Mataji: (In Marathi) Kiti? (How Many?)
Sahaja Yogi: Eighteen. One eight.
Shri Mataji: Eighteen centres.
Question: Are you paying any money?
Shri Mataji: No, no not paying. But only knowledge. And then collectively being there. And they listen to my lectures. And understand more. But you see, I have given at least, I don’t know how many, a thousand lectures in English, Marathi, Hindi. So they try to understand further. How to live, how to work it out. Also, we have music. We have international marriages. Very interesting. People are very joyous. Happy. So there is hope for all of us. (Laughing).Only we have to …UNCLEAR.
Note: There is a break in the recording here and then it resumes again. Q&A seems to have gone on without being recorded.
Shri Mataji: ..Supposed to be absolutely useless. And passed with flying colours, got scholarships. Recently one boy came and told me he got ninety-four per cent marks in. [UNCLEAR].He’s in Sahaja Yoga. So it can be really marvellous. And you don’t feel tired. See now, my age is sixty-seven years I have completed. And I am travelling, all kinds of things I am doing. All the time I am travelling. Forty nations, you can imagine.
Question: You travelled through forty nations?
Shri Mataji: Yes, above forty. But I think twenty abroad and on this side, Australia. I have been to Australia, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Singapore, maybe Japan also. Then I have come back to all the European countries. I have been to South America, Colombia [UNCLEAR].
Question: And Sahaja Yoga is known in more countries..all countries where in.. ?
Shri Mataji: Yes.
Sahaja Yogi: Mother is the greatest traveller [UNCLEAR]. I don’t think…[UNCLEAR]
Shri Mataji: Yes. Even my husband who represents a hundred and thirty-four nations. He tells me you are [UNCLEAR/worse] than me.
Shri Mataji: I don’t feel because see if you are there, you are there. If you think you are travelling, there may be a problem. I never think .. if I am sitting here, I am sitting on the plane, I am sitting there, it doesn’t matter. If you are with yourself you don’t even feel bored. Enjoy it. As [UNCLEAR] said you are never alone than alone. That’s the situation. And such nice people coming on?. We have many experts, scientists but we have lots of.. [UNCLEAR for almost 30 seconds with side conversations over the audio].
Shri Mataji: We have other projects also. Schools that we have got [UNCLEAR]. Now we have those started. We have got an ashram also. There also we are; we want to teach our children about electrical work. Those children who fail in eighth class, there is no future. So we teach them all these things. Brickwork and electrical work, plumbing work, all these kinds of things. So they have something. Some sort of depth in their hands.
So, there are many ways by which you can improve the capacity of the body. And then you can, it improves the capability, I don’t know why. You will be surprised, there are Indian Sahaja Yogis they have become so artistic. Very [UNCLEAR]. You can imagine. Very poor people also. There was one poor buy who got scholarships and now he is a graduate in the art college. You must have heard about J.J. School of Arts. He graduated with flying colours. He got scholarships for art. He was a very ordinary boy.
Question: And tomorrow you are giving just a lecture about this?
Shri Mataji: No, no, no I am giving realization also. And also with that.
Question: What methods of realization do you..how do you..?
Shri Mataji: After realization, you feel the cool breeze in your hands, in the beginning. You feel the cool breeze out of your head. You feel very peaceful and calm.
Question: I mean [UNCLEAR/during] lecture?
Shri Mataji: No, no, I just ask them to put their hands towards me [UNCLEAR]. But then you can do it, once you are realized.
Question: How long does it take?
Shri Mataji: The question was asked to Ramadasa.
Sahaja Yogi: You can have it now (laughing).
Shri Mataji: No, the question was asked to Ramadasa. Ramadasa said “tatshan”, that moment. But there should be the authority to do it and there should be the one who wants to take it. So “tatshan” was the word he used. He was the guru of Shivaji. He said that “tatshan”, that moment. They all have talked about it. Kabira has talked about it, all of them have talked about it. Specially Gyaneshwara, have talked about it. If we have the knowledge, knowledge of the roots we have, they have knowledge of the tree. But the tree can’t reach out to the roots. We have to learn it.
Question: You think all people have the same capacity to receive or some people are more willing than others?
Shri Mataji: Then it cannot be forced. You see, you have to respect that person. Because you have to ultimately get the cool breeze. So you cannot force on anybody. If somebody does not want it, they cannot get it and we cannot force. Sometimes we have to ask. I mean God is not. UNCLEAR. It is not.
Question: Are some races by nature more receptive. People in Asia for example?
Shri Mataji: Sometimes, we have in all races people who are realized, race does not matter. But Indians are very spiritual, very much. But as they have got their independence so easily, they don’t have much value. I think Indian Sahaja Yogis are not..do not have as much value for Sahaja Yoga as western Sahaja Yogis. They got it, so religiously work it out. [UNCLEAR] they do this, they do that, going all over the world, in every conference they are there to help [UNCLEAR/others]. So many Germans went to Russia to give realization to Russians. Can you imagine the Germans going to Russia? So they think the cool breeze is the greatest thing and the glorious thing which they have achieved.
They have to be established, so they go all out. In India of course, people get realization all right. But we want my mother to be realized, sister to be realized, bring the whole family into realization, it’s like that. But doesn’t matter. Still, we have some very great Sahaja Yogis.
Question: You are talking about Self Realisation. In your lectures, [UNCLEAR] get self-realization?
Shri Mataji: I think in Hyderabad, at least eighty per cent did. Madras I would say? (to Sahaja Yogis)
Sahaja Yogis: Seventy.
Sahaja Yogis: Seventy percent. Bangalore?
Sahaja Yogi: [UNCLEAR]
Question: Afterwards, they, what, practice this Sahaja Yoga or..?
Shri Mataji: No, no they have to come to the centres to understand. First of all, they need to understand what is the problem with them. Then to understand how to develop this. And then they have, must know how to give it to others. Very simple, its very simple. Because, you see its like, as we have got eyes, we can see clearly, in the way we get special eyes, special awareness. By which you know within yourself.
Question: And what is role played by Sahaja Yoga in that?
Shri Mataji: What is it?
Question: Role played by Sahaja Yoga in that.
Shri Mataji: Sahaja Yoga is the system by which the Kundalini rises, and you get your realisation. That is the fourth thing I should say, for the time being. By Sahaja Yoga, you achieve that state. That higher state. It’s a higher state of realization which you achieve. Which one has to achieve.
Question: By himself?
Shri Mataji: Not himself. It is somebody who is a Sahaja Yogi, can do it. If somebody has an enlightened light, can enlighten. If one Sahaja Yogi can give it, that person when he gets it he can give to others. One Sahaja Yogi can give realization to thousands.
Shri Mataji: There are some who did that.