Interview With Greek Journalist And Talk With Sahaja Yogis

Greg and Cheryl Bradshaw's house, Melbourne (Australia)

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Interview

[UNCLEAR] what work is this?

[INAUDIBLE] – Really, very good one! I’ve heard that You’ve been [UNCLEAR] in some of [UNCLEAR] design myself. I was born in [UNCLEAR] island in the Indian Sea and have heard that You’ve been to Greece. Oh! Greece is tremendous. Tremendous people, Greece! You see, they’re very traditional, they’re very traditional people and they understand this, you see. And we had such great philosophers like Socrates, so, I mean, is all in-built within them, absolutely and they’re very subtle people also – they understand serenity. I mean, in the whole of Europe I never heard this word anywhere except in Greece – the word serenity – – it’s beautiful! – Could you tell me what’s the record of Your philosophy?

Alright. You see, the philosophy is actually the practical side of it. Whatever has been the philosophy so far, that you have to know yourself ‘Know Thyself’ – also Socrates said the same thing and Christ said the same thing that, ”You’re to be born again.” All the Scriptures, all the saints have said, ”You’re to be born again,” or, ”You have to know Yourself.” How to do it? See, how to achieve it was the problem, which now is being solved. Not only that is solved for one person but solved for many because you can do it enmasse because we have a power within us. I think, the Greeks knew about it because they called this triangular bone as Sacrum, meaning sacred, so they knew there’s this power sacred, sacred power inside that and this is the power, when is awakened and passes through six subtle centers, pierces through your fontanel bone area, you get in touch with that All-Pervading subtle power about which all these saints have talked and then you start feeling the cool breeze on your finger-tips, also you start feeling the cool breeze on top of your head. Then this power is your new dimension to your Central Nervous system. You see, early Christians called themselves ‘Gnostics’ ‘Gna’ in Sanskrit language means to know and we used to call it same thing.

How do you get to know Yourself? – Haan, yes. Now this is what happens that Yourself is – the seat of Yourself is here but is reflected in your heart and as soon as this happens, first of all you come to know about your subtle centers which are within you, which you do not know so far, on your finger-tips you know; These are all sympathetic nervous system uh.. centers which are expressed on the right and the left hand, so whatever is the problem you can feel it on your finger-tips, so you know at least the centers that you have. Now these centers are for your physical, mental, emotional and spiritual being so immediately you find out what’s the problem with you. Then also you develop another dimension on your Central Nervous system that you become collectively conscious means you can feel others; You can feel everyone what’s the problem with that person – only on the centers. When that happens and if you know how to correct it, you can cure diseases, you can cure mental problems and whatever is promised then you become the Spirit, you become the witness, you become the peaceful personality, you and also you become joy. But in practical times how do we start, what do we do first? It’s very simple. It’s a, it’s a living process of evolution. As we have become human-beings, we can also become super human-beings – not so difficult but only it’s like this that one enlightened, one enlightened candle can enlighten another – that’s all.

So supposing I – I want to be be enlightened, what do I do? – Yes – what do I do? – Nothing. You just have to put hands like this and you get it. Once you get it, you just practice it a little bit and understand all the permutations and combination, then you can give it to others. It’s so simple as that. And You believe that there are no problems, that there are no problems that human-beings cannot handle – is that so? So many problems. First of all they are not at all collective by temperament; They are collective outside. Now supposing you follow any religion – any religion whatsoever.

You can commit any sin, there’s no bondage. But once it happens, you just become absolutely righteous – just don’t do wrong things; Become so powerful and so compassionate. So many diseases which are incurable are cured by this. – Hmm. Could You explain little bit on this? – How it happens? Okay. – What happens, yes. It’s very simple. Like this is the left and the right side – left sympathetic and right sympathetic.

In the center is the Parasympathetic Nervous system. Now this, these are the centers, you can say, at different positions in the spinal cord and [UNCLEAR] Now what happens, that any diseases caused by the, by the constriction of these centers – now supposing, you are using your left side, means you are very emotional, cry too much, think of your past and all that, supposing, supposing – Exactly. Could you take it further from that side? That’s exactly what [UNCLEAR] Tell me more [UNCLEAR] – Yes, I’m very emotional, how can you [UNCLEAR] – I could see that. On your centers I can feel it that you are an emotional personality. – Yes, I don’t like [UNCLEAR]. How do I cope with the situation? – That’s what I was saying. Now what happens, the right side is the one which balances it here – now the left and the right but you start moving out because you use too much of left so the control of the right is gone, the balance is lost; Apart from that sometimes you may just break and then all kinds of diseases can start on it’s own and you cannot control it because – there’s no connection with the whole. – So you need what, self-discipline?

No, nothing. You just have to get realization so that this power, which I call as Kundalini, which is placed in the sacrum bone rises, passes through this and integrates there and pierces through this so that you become in contact with the mains, you can say – like any machinery has to be in contact with the mains. You become in contact with that all the time. You feel very energetic, very dynamic and very compassionate, very righteous and you enjoy your virtues. So what do I say to my readers that they want to be enlightened? How do they start, I still don’t get it? You just come to My programs and it will happen; I’ll, I’ll do it for them and then they have to do it for others – that’s all. – It will work out in the programs – Alright, I will appear probably all the time – [UNCLEAR] You be in another part of the world – Beg your pardon – yes, I am, I am and I believe that you had a grand success but personally are You satisfied with your results? Very much! Even in Russia I was very much satisfied.

Russian people are the best. Turned out to be the best – who never believed in God, no religion, nothing but such a clean slate, you see, wonderful people. Even the government has accepted us there. Even in India because there are three doctors who got their M.D. uh.. from, for sahaja yoga that the way they cured Psychosomatic diseases, Epilepsy, Asthma, so many diseases. Even in Russia we have cured some people. – Uh.. what’s the place of God in Your philosophy? – God is everywhere, without Him nothing. His power, All-Pervading power, it’s His own power of love. So God is everything.

Annh, but, but You don’t seem to approve of the way the various religious [UNCLEAR] all of God or the way that Even interpretations are wrong absolutely because they are money-oriented but actually if you see the interpretation of God is, you should go to the Incarnations, to the people who established it, to Christ. Say if you are a Muslim, then ask Mohammad. Mohammad himself has said, “Your hands will speak when the resurrection will come.” – He said it. – What about it along with Christianity difference [UNCLEAR], someone who’s not a Christian? See, Christianity is a , just it’s a – I was also born in a Christian religion so no problem with Me that – that Christ has said that, “You’re to be born again,” but it’s a social thing only, it’s just a social thing and Christians can go to any [UNCLEAR] doing all kinds of wrong things, converting people. Like In India they came with a gun – gun in one hand and a Bible with the other hand – this kind of thing. Imagine Christ! And what Christ has said in a very subtle way, “Thou shalt not have adulterous eyes.” It’s very difficult to find Christians without adulterous eyes – isn’t it funny – so we have missed the point.

We’re not following Christ, we’re following some sort of a Christianity which was later on made by Paul, maybe more organizational; You cannot organize God – You cannot pay for it. How many sahaja yogis there are all over the world, do You know, how many followers You have? I don’t know. They have already crossed the mark what John has said about. They’re 144 thousand he said – – we have already crossed that mark so I don’t know. – 144 thousand. – Yeah, maybe more because we are in forty nations. Uh.. forgive me – in what way sahaja yoga differs from the other forms of – Yoga. – yoga? – Other yogas are just the wee part of it, you see.

Patanjali wrote about Hatha yoga. He didn’t write about this standing on the heads business and all that – that’s just a wee part of it – but Hatha yoga means ‘Ha’ ‘Tha’ – means you have to deal with your right side as well as with your left side but they just deal with the right side and physically you may feel fit but such a person can become very dry, might get heart attacks and is very one-sided life but he talked about the same thing, as I did, was to get to your state of your mind in thoughtless awareness and doubtless awareness – we do the same thing. Then another yoga is Rajyoga, is another very prevalent thing, which is also [ASIDE – NAHIN PANKHA NAHIN] which is also a very, I should say, a very mechanical thing, like, unless and until you ignite the car, the machines won’t work but the modern Rajayoga is like this, that you move the wheels without starting the car so in sahaja yoga we start the car and then we find out what’s wrong with you and then we correct it – it’s the other way round. And that’s why they cut the tongues of people – Rajayoga – and push them back because it happens when Kundalini rises – you won’t feel it, nobody feels it – but the tongue is little bit pulled in, a little bit, to hold the flow of Kundalini but that doesn’t mean you cut your tongue and push it back and there are people who are wagging their tongues in, in Los Angeles, some good doctors from [UNCLEAR – INDIA?] – horrible things these yogas have done. – And what place does the exercise in yoga? – Not much. If you, I mean, exercise should be for just for little bit, not much is needed – if you want for your health, is alright uh.. but not too much of it; Also not good because that puts a strain on your, on your right side. For example, I have to have lot of water in My body otherwise how will I manage because I’m dealing with people and I’m to be protected so it’s alright, I accept it but these days everybody wants to be like mosquitoes. – What do you think of the state of the war with as it is today?

-Ah! Now one problem is solved because Gorbachev is a enlightened man; One problem is solved to a great extent because he has withdrawn from one side so the other side there’s no room to fight now, so they are also receding back so this one tension is much less. In a way also when I went to Russia actually there were all these Third, these Eastern Bloc was there – all of them, and I gave all of them realization. When they came back to their own countries, the Berlin wall fell down so the enlightenment gives you strength and sense of honor – just fell down and so now, that problem, is partially or quite a lot, is solved but the second problem is of fundamentalism; Everybody thinks they are chosen ones and they think they are the best; They’re all just the same, no difference. – Are you talking about the politicians or [UNCLEAR]? – Oh, everyone – whatever religion they may follow fundamentalist You see, uh.. we are the best. Then the politicians; Politicians, I don’t think, they believe in God that God exists really. If they believe, they would have understood that God resides in human-beings and we have to look after them – that’s the first duty. It will happen. People will start coming, we’ll have people like Gorbachev, then things will change.

So, You are optimistic of.. ? – Very optimistic, very, very optimistic because such a transformation is taking place and if human-beings are transformed, things will be transformed completely – all the mess is because of us. – But are You happy with the rate that this transformation is taking place? – Beg your pardon? The rate, the speed, is it a slow process; Are You happy with the speed, the process, the rate that this change takes place or it’s, is it too slow or would You like..? It started very slow, to begin with, because it’s a living process; Since you have to produce one flower, it takes time – real flower but plastic flowers you can produce any number but now it’s taken over, I think, the speed has increased very much everywhere. It’s progressing very fast and things will work out but what we need is this certain number of people in any country and it will trigger out; It’s like that hundred monkey phenomena, as you call it, [UNCLEAR] that has to happen. A certain number of people have to really established and the whole thing will be really transformed. In which part of the world Your sahaja yogis are spread more than any other, than other parts of the world? – Of course in India.

India, yes. – India is the maximum. – About India? Indians are very, sort of, they have been basic with them but I should say the best sahaja yogis now are in Austria; They are very good sahaja yogis in Austria and also uh.. we have in now Russia, I should say. Can you imagine that Germans went to Russia to give them enlightenment? To Russians – Germans. – Such a change! – [UNCLEAR] Germans – Germans are from Germany – we have disciples there in Germany. They all went down to Russia to help them out. – Remarkable!

So, what are You going to do during Your visit here apart from giving lectures? – I’ll have programs. I think, we have two programs tomorrow and day after – there I’ll give enlightenment to people – it now it works enmasse, it works enmasse. – Can You give enlightenment to me now? – They are all enlightened people sitting here. – What about me, I’m not? – Okay, I’ll give you now, I’ll give you, I’ll give you. – I would love to be realized. – That’s very great. That’s way Greeks are very good.

When I went to Athens – now Athena word comes from the Primordial Mother. ‘Atha’ – Atha in Sanskrit means Primordial so Athens is very much there and when I went there, you should have seen the hall and even when we had the hall, the gentleman who owned it, came down he said, “Better stop now, so many people we can’t have it under certain laws this,” but the people were shouting and big problem there. Two days I had – Very emotional Greeks are! – Very! And apart from that they are seeking truth, very sincere about it. – Yes. – They don’t care for other things much. It’s beautiful people; We have a lawyer there [UNCLEAR] he’s looking after them. And do You think that temperament has anything to do with the enlightenment – the type of temperament a person has? – No, nothing – you get into balance itself.

Balance is to be established. I mean, of course as you said, you are emotional and also Greeks are very emotional people, I mean, when they saw Me there were tears in their eyes, you see, and they gradually they settled down and things worked; Most of them got realization – thousands. Greeks were great, I must say. I was so happy that you are coming here; I was very happy to hear that because I know Greeks are the ones who will touch very fast. See Greeks, Egyptians, Indians, Italians – You think – are ancient people. – they are tuned that way, they are seeking the truth and Yes because they are very ancient people so they have been doing this, you see, trial and error and then trial and that’s how they are, sort of, at a point. They have reached at a point where they they think that now we must find it out what we want – such philosophies you had. – When were You [UNCLEAR] this, how long ago? – About, I think, about eight months back. – Beg You?

Eight months back because I travel the whole year round and summer time I’m travelling in Europe. – Yes – and winter time I’m travelling in India – and You always get the same satisfaction and the positive results with them? In the beginning it was not because it’s too fantastic to believe, you see, people were not so but still I was everywhere; I started with one lady and now it’s going to be – I started 1970, 5th May, slowly now it’s about 19 years completed in May. What do You do with people that are skeptical about [UNCLEAR] worshiping? I don’t bother about them; You see, you cannot force it on anyone; You cannot force, you cannot convince it – it’s not mental. It has to be asked for then it works. It is – gradually they also come because they see the results on other people, they see the results on their friends and all that, the change, the transformation and the beauty of their temperament and then they come themselves but, you see, we cannot force it on anyone, – cannot be forced, that’s how you come. – What position, what place materialism has in Your philosophy? Materialism has to have a balance, has to have a balance. You see, we are in imbalance like produce plastic, plastic, plastic – so much that we produced – so much of mountains of plastics.

Then this machinery; You see, machinery is for us we are not for machineries – there has to be a balance for everything but there’s no balance and that’s why we have gone into this problem of ecology and all that. But there is, You don’t see any harm in having some comfort in life which the material things give us. In a way they do, in a way they don’t; It’s a headache also sometimes to have material things with you but the comfort you seek of your, your Spirit; Of course, I mean, you can live very comfortably – no problem, uh.. the way you want to live, you can live. You don’t have to run away from your house, you don’t have to live in jungles – nothing – you can live very comfortably whichever way you like but actually I’ve seen after realization people seek the comfort of the Spirit. It’s alright, if it is there, is there. Now, I must say, I come from a rich family – My husband is rich and My parents are rich and all that so I have lots of comforts in My family but I can live anywhere. You send Me to a jungle, I can be there, I can be anywhere, I enjoy everything. – So part of your philosophy is that through various situations – No, we don’t force on anything, just automatically it happens. You see, people are used to alcoholism, drugs, this – everything drops off. Just I don’t tell them, just because you become the Spirit; In the light of Spirit and whatever Spirit enjoys that’s you like, you’re more worried about that and matter is for expression of your love so that you can give it to others.

Even when we want to wear good dress or want to keep a good house or anything, it is just we want to please others innately, not for our sake. We don’t do all this for our sake, we do it for others. Actually one has to work very hard to keep the house clean and make it beautiful and all – we don’t mind because really, innately we want to please others and then ultimately it happens that by giving others or by expression through the matter we can say, “I love you very much.” Tell me, if You are after progress and You want to progress as a and develop as a person in Your sphere, in Your profession and we all know that in order to do this, You have to be tough – in today’s world – what do You think about that? – You see, love is such a great power – that you don’t have to be tough at all – it works. – But we are so tough so, if You want to survive No, no you survive through the power, this subtle power, which is love, it looks after you. – You don’t have to be at all, at all tough. – But I find myself, if I’m, I’m kind to the others all the time, – the others take advantage of me in my profession. – It’s true but when you get your realization, you’ll be surprised, you’ll be in the Kingdom of God and everything will be done in such a way that you’ll be amazed how things work out. Today only these musicians have come and they were telling Me that they were very hard with us, when we entered they wouldn’t give us their immigration because some were not graduates, the artists were not graduates and just they saw them and these people, just in their hearts said, ”Now we have to go somehow,” and immediately the everything changed and they got it – everything works out and everyone of them can tell you the story how things worked out in their lives and how everything is so beautiful.

Alright. Do you think that mind can solve [UNCLEAR], mind can [UNCLEAR – SOLVE OR SWALLOW?] through different things? – I mean, sometimes, you say, I said to myself, ”Don’t do it.” Are we divided, do we have two selves? – Yeah, yeah. Yes, there’s a, there’s a disintegration but with this you get integrated; Whatever you feel, you do it and enjoy it. It’s just that, you get completely integrated and you know the Absolute Truth also because whenever you want to find out the truth you can just put your hands and find out so you know the Absolute what is right, you do that, you are alright – no problem. But who is telling me what to do, I mean, our two selves within me? Yes, there are already.

Then one is the ignorance, one is the knowledge but the knowledge has not come into the light. Once the knowledge comes in, you can feel it on these. In it there are vibrations you can feel it, cool breeze and that tells you. Supposing, there’s a man who wants to cheat you. Immediately you’ll feel the heat from that man. Hmm. How come that sometimes I [UNCLEAR] away from myself. I know that what I’m going to do is or to say louder because [UNCLEAR] some person, I know what I’m going to say it’s not right and probably it’s going to hurt the other person and it’s going to help me as well but I can’t help not doing it, not saying which gives me the – I realize that there are two people, there are two selves – inside me – But that becomes one now so that whatever you do, you don’t mind, it’s alright. If somebody hurts you, it’s alright, you don’t feel it, it’s alright, but you say whatever How can I suppose the other person, what happens to the other self, what I feel that they don’t always approve? Doesn’t matter, you don’t have to worry, it will all work out; You don’t have to mentally make them approve, it works out.

You see,, and sometimes the desires which do not sometimes, you see, sometimes I’m going in the car and you get lost then I think I have to be lost, there’s something to be done here, I have to pass through this lane, it’s alright. – So, even the hardships that we have in life they, they have a positive message. – Absolutely Whatever you do, you know that is for your good – you just don’t bother. You keep uh.. as a very joyous mood and you don’t worry about it – there must be something. Why am I here, why this happened? Alright, there must be something, let’s see. You become a witness of the whole drama. Like in a drama you’re watching – this event has come, now what must be the reason then it shows. In the same way, everything starts unfolding beautifully. – Why do You believe is the role of human-beings [UNCLEAR] – Beg your pardon.

What is the role of human- beings so now? – So..? – The role, the role – What is the purpose, the meaning of life?- – Is to enjoy – that’s all. – [UNCLEAR] – Yes, enjoy enjoy the bounties of God and to spread the news of God and to give realization to people and to evolve them – that’s the purpose. – Then You believe in re-incarnation that when we are dead – Yes, we are re-incarnated, no doubt. We’ve been born again and again and again and now we have come to this stage as human-beings also and now human-beings have to just go through a little breakthrough, that’s all; It’s not purposeless. So, what happens to me when I die? What happens to my soul? Does it immediately because it is not a human-being that is Alright, it depends on, – now you become, you become your own master; If you want to be born again, if you want to save more people, you may be born again. If you don’t want to be born again, you need not be born again; It’s, it’s your desire.

Then you become the master of yourself, – you decide what you want to do. – Okay. What do you want to say to my readers? – Who? – To my readers, to the people that I’m writing the article [UNCLEAR] I should say, they must now take their realization – the time has come; I call it a blossom time. It’s a great chance, it’s a very great thing that’s happening all over the world and it should happen and the Greeks who have come from Greece should not loose their moorings and their traditions and should get their realizations. Thank You. Now, I’ll be glad to hear [UNCLEAR] – Alright. [UNCLEAR – SHIRLEY?] – Shirley, is it is possible to have a – do You mind they’ll be waiting for – [UNCLEAR] other journalists that I think future article for [UNCLEAR] [UNCLEAR] and do You mind having a [UNCLEAR] appear there telling people what happened to you and… You don’t, all good, okay and could you take [UNCLEAR] while She’s talking to me [LAUGHTER] I’m so, this seems so very sort of business.

[UNCLEAR] just here – Yes – Well, I was take my realization three years ago I was a very hectic person, very busy, hectic – I had a lot – [ASIDE] Annh? [UNCLEAR] – Very busy – Take your chair there – better take her chair – That should be nice for her [UNCLEAR] – Very naive – [MIXED CONVERSATION] And after I was take my realization through the Grace of Shri Mataji, I felt that all happened within me [UNCLEAR] and the next morning I woke up and [UNCLEAR] all my problems and just bear that I gave up smoking overnight, I gave up drinking, I didn’t like, never [UNCLEAR – WAIVING?] only really gross things I used to do [UNCLEAR] and just any more and I felt just so nice and I felt really peaceful inside and it happened overnight. You must show Sheryll’s photographs to her, Sheryll’s photographs that [UNCLEAR] and then I developed this realization either not to have it and later Shri Mataji [UNCLEAR] because I even had Parkinson and a week later [UNCLEAR] I took these photographs that Shri Mataji will show you and [UNCLEAR] it was just absolute great pains of block just radiating down from Her but third day I couldn’t explain, I [UNCLEAR] glass windows [UNCLEAR] it was just not right and [UNCLEAR] So how did you find the [UNCLEAR] that we have? What I think [UNCLEAR] as many problems as I used to but just slight. But then you need to know yourself and when you do something wrong it’s like knowing that you’ve done something wrong and you’ve got the means to fix it through realization [UNCLEAR] You look at things in a more calm way and much calmer with more clear attention It’s not a drama going on and you [UNCLEAR] and you suddenly see, you know, you’re in the middle ‘What am I doing,’ you know that’s all just a drama. [INAUDIBLE N UNCLEAR] [INAUDIBLE N UNCLEAR] [UNCLEAR] These are the ones, you see. She was the first to get it. Oh! See he got this and in a village, you just think of it [YOGIS CONVERSATION] [YOGIS CONVERSATION] [YOGIS CONVERSATION] But why have you put another one on this one?

[YOGIS CONVERSATION] First you take it out. This way [UNCLEAR] – [UNCLEAR] – Yeah But that [UNCLEAR], better show all these. [UNCLEAR] You can say there are many miraculous photographs [UNCLEAR N INAUDIBLE] You show all this. Hmm beautiful! Yes, I’m laughing. [UNCLEAR] What, when are we, where are we going to – Where are we going to send the interview? – It is for the afternoon newspaper [UNCLEAR] – Hmm For the afternoon newspaper ‘The Noble Herald’. I want to [UNCLEAR] [SHRI MATAJI LAUGHS] Better sit facing it. [YOGIS CONVERSATION] – Your book is very good. You gave Me the book you wrote – you remember, October.

Yes Mother. It’s very good and you should come and see our garden in Pratishthan. It requires lot of uh.. understanding and I have moved I have to look after it but all these flowers can come there, I think, all of them could be Show her this one that you were showing that you should say It may be England, the other day Here there are three – one, two, three. This is the Kundalini, these are the two but actually in another photograph this one more [UNCLEAR] these also [UNCLEAR – THE SARI’S OFFERED?] Also there are three – one, two and three but slight These are [UNCLEAR] actually – it would be a good idea. It’s just a [UNCLEAR – BUNCH?] – [UNCLEAR] photograph – Cameras are clever! – That was the one – Oh – Isn’t that the one with deities above them – No, no, no, no. These are all on your head. – It’s just, this is My name written in Urdu language, it’s My name.

On your heads – Fantastic! – But not this one – this is another one. This year they were going to give you – So that’s the one on the [UNCLEAR] – Hmm. Look at that! – Remember? – That was a star – Is that the window? – This was the window [UNCLEAR] was just really there and it was not flash so it shouldn’t really have come out [UNCLEAR] – I know, I know. I know. This is remarkable, annh? This one of course we have This we have, haan This one is tremendous!

No, that’s not the one of the deities. They were going to give you in the – I think, I’ll ask them. They have enlarged for Ganpatipule – they must have given to some people, I’m sure, very enlarged ones. – Hmm, we don’t know, we were – all the deities – [UNCLEAR] – Unnh? – I think they have reached Sydney but I don’t think [UNCLEAR] – Might be, I’ll see there. They can make copies I’m sitting here and all of them sitting this fond of [UNCLEAR] and the way they are, there are also the angels and you can see also the ganas and the every uh.. bride they have got Divine flowers on – beautiful flowers falling on them and the boys also are all having vibrations on top of them. That’s what is your marriage is! I wanted to talk to him about Taiwan. See what they told Me – what’s the name of the gentleman from New York? – Haan, New York it is Nelson, Nelson [UNCLEAR].

Yeah, and he, he wanted Me to go to Taiwan but what I told him that first of all you people go there and work it out, then I’ll come because there’s just raw just now – no one will know there – Yeah – So they said, “Yes,” but I said, ‘I’ll fix a.’ They said, “May is a good month for Taiwan.” Is it a good month for Taiwan, May? Shri Mataji, it’s very mild and pleasant, may be a little humid – but very mild and pleasant, very mild. – Is it? What do you think is the best month for Taiwan to go to? – Well uh.. – November? – I think, This has been five years or six years since I’ve been there, I remember basically is that the bad months are summer from mid- May until early September is not only warm but very, very humid – is when they’re rainy months and they’re – Early December will be alright? Yeah, You’ll be, it certainly will be alright by November, the heat is all gone by the end of September. – The hot months are August – See because I’m coming to India on the, say, 18th of December but before that I could go there and then go from there to India – would be much better.

Yes, Shree Mataji. – And you’ll have more time to work it out – Yes, Shree Mataji. – Can you write to him about it? – Yes, Shree Mataji. – I’ll also talk to him from England. – Yes, Shree Mataji I’ll fix it up like this. First I said, ‘I’ll come in April,’ but then I can also go to Singapore, to Malaysia – Malaysia now we have thirty people; They came at the airport, I was surprised, thirty of them, all Chinese – very beautiful! If Chinese take to it, they can go very far. And also Toronto we have lots of Chinese, Vancouver we have lots of Chinese now, New York now we have some, not many but they’re very dynamic. – So if you think it alright then we’ll do it in the early December – Yes, Mother.

on My way to India. – Yes, Mother. May I ask You Mother, is it auspicious time for me to call the Taiwanese? – Beg your pardon? – Is it auspicious time for me to call the Taiwanians? – Should be. Before just I go, if you could go there and find out what you can work it out or you can go earlier and again you can go but you better talk to him and both of you consult what you can do. I’ve been to Taiwan once, I’ve been there. I think, the Chinese are alright even in China – they’re very good but this news nonsense that has come has spoiled the image of China but the government has tremendous respect for Me. Whenever I went there they respected Me, they were very kind to Me but as far as sahaja yoga is concerned I don’t know how far they’ll react, can’t say.

The Chinese in Taiwan are easier than – Much easier – [UNCLEAR] – but there’s no suppression on them. They’re not suppressed people and they’re doing well now because lots of people are using their labor and things – much better. – You came from where, which part? – From Kuala Lumpur, from – Kuala Lumpur. But I was surprised there are thirty of them now. – They’re all very new are there. – But very good, very dedicated and the children know how to give realization, they know the mantras and everything – so beautiful! NG has done that. – Hmm – Indians are horrible in Kuala Lumpur, horrible! – Yes, Shree Mataji.

They have all kinds of funny problems. I said, ‘You give up Indians.’ You see, Indians are like uprooted people – anywhere. Once they when they are uprooted from India they become very funny. I must say, a mango tree if you take it to England, it won’t give you mangoes but also not give you an apple – it’s like that, useless thing. Yes Mother, we have a, a, an Indian man who comes to one of the programs in John Wayne – he comes and he is from Kuala Lumpur also and he was just in Kuala Lumpur – He’s Chinese? – No Indian – I see – and he was there last month and he got in some quite serious trouble with – lot of other Indians there who are – very rigid – [UNCLEAR] – All kinds of false people have gone there and they [UNCLEAR] – they [UNCLEAR] Hatha yoga – – and TM people got on [UNCLEAR] – No, but Chinese – Chinese are very good in Kuala Lumpur, extremely alert. – Yes, are you satisfied with her? – Yes, yes. – So would you like to have your realization?

Yes – Alright. Let her take off her shoes just. You can sit on the chair now. Please be seated. Give her the chair. Please. Just, if you can face Me here, it’ll be better. No, no, on the chair. Now, put your hands like this – that’s all. Just see on her head if it’s already there.

It’s beautiful feeling! – She’s got it already. Feeling the cool breeze already. – It’s tingling, my feet. – Feet are tingling but hands because you got down from there but hands you’ve got the cool breeze. Now don’t doubt if they are on the finger-tips – they are. You got it, so fast. Only thing is you’re also very hard working person; Despite the fact you are emotional. So, but you must forgive, must forgive people – that’s very important. Just say, “I forgive.”

Don’t think of them who they are or anything. Just say, “I forgive everyone,” just say it in your heart. “I just forgive them,” just say that. Good and you are relaxed, no thought. Watch Me without thinking – you can do it. Very simple! You see, as a seed, you can put it in the Mother Earth it sprouts by itself so you are built-in within you. ‘Sahaja’ means ‘born with you’ is there. Only this yoga the union with the Divine has to take place. That works out – see now.

I told you Greeks are very good, they’re wonderful – wonderful people! Alright. May God bless you! But you must know what it is and you must understand what it is and how to work it out, how to help people – it’s wonderful! You should see these people again. Can you give her some address of yours where we are going to have the program today? – and tomorrow. – Give her one single [UNCLEAR] – Can I just borrow [UNCLEAR] [UNCLEAR] and the necklace that Francis is wearing is [UNCLEAR – BRUNA’S] work. And that is – What’s it? – Bruna’s work, Mother.

Really! – Bruna? – Who made it? It’s wonderful [UNCLEAR]! – She’s a very beautiful jeweler. They all have become so dynamic, I must say, the – you must show her these ceramics these sahaja yogis have made. Beautiful ceramics they have made, just like the jewelry – Greek style. – So fine! – Last year [UNCLEAR] jewelry too. – Remarkable!

And there are people who never knew much of ceramic have done such good work. Did you tell her what is this, unnh? [UNCLEAR] – Show her this. – Hmm. – You must see this. Sherryll is the one who got all these photograph Now we have many more but you should see and many more like this. You show her the others. – This one, not these. – Who are you all talking, is that it? – No – In a village – In a village – Shree Mataji in village and – Oh, there’re photographs and photographs and you’ll be amazed – It started off fine and then it got bigger and bigger – it’s the moon and then actually you see another [UNCLEAR] and after that there was no more light [UNCLEAR] There’re so many photographs like this that you’ll be amazed and we’ll show you later on but you must join this and you must develop it.

Here’s the photograph in the dark you took Shree Mataji, one of the other ladies in [UNCLEAR] who was also here at this program took some photographs – [UNCLEAR] but there’s no light and that same photograph, there’s no light. – I know That photograph was taken on a pitch black [UNCLEAR] with no light whatsoever – just as an experiment – Hmm, hmm – and then curtain down. No flash was [UNCLEAR] really dark I’m sure the Sahastrara – it’s also possible. She has some photographs but we have so many of them and the one which is with the on the heart there’s light. When a [UNCLEAR – CERTAIN OR SUBTLE?] saints, you know, the camera takes photos of different lights that emit from us – On top of their heads – On top of everybody’s heads. Now this one here – this is Shree Mother – this is in Austria or somewhere the one with a star? – No, no, no this one was in uh… – uh… Italy. – Italy. – We were going on a boat This was number one and number two, this is all and around then, went number three, number four and then number five was – this was all coming from Shree Mataji because this is the [UNCLEAR] This is the day when the last center was opened – the seventh center – and they wanted to have the celebration on the 6th, but it was on the 5th, so they said 6th is a Sunday everybody will be there and we were in a boat, suddenly this happened – one fellow got it, everybody doesn’t get and Shree Mataji is just here, next is – This is My head and these look like, when we enlarge them they look like, as if the bones are cut, you see, little, little things these – That’s all, I mean, unless this is sort of photographs – This one is also there, the one with the – light in the heart. – Light coming from the heart chakra. – [UNCLEAR] – This was in the Ganpatipule – [UNCLEAR] – Which, this one here was the light from the heart? – This one Ganpatipule – Ganpatipule. – Is in a, in a, on the sea-shore. – Would you like this for your paper? Where is, can she print this in the paper? – Yes, yes why not? – [UNCLEAR] Which part? – This is in India, in Ganpatipule is.

And that’s were You meeting people there or You were only around? – No, no we had also some people around – they just took My photograph. – and there just light. – One is there on the hand; Now recently there’s one behind Me, – then another one on My feet is the moon, is complete moon – Is lots and lots we haven’t brought the more here even. – Was saying, this one here was in New Zealand and Shree Mataji like the map [UNCLEAR] the new Parliament, the New Zealand [UNCLEAR] Now the new Parliament that New Zealand looks like and the honey – Also in New Zealand the whole of England came in – Came in into the honey, yes [UNCLEAR] and the one the face has come in the clouds – the face I can see it in the clouds, everything even – [UNCLEAR] – Everything even the teeth and – also I used to wear this thing here that also came in. – I don’t know if you have that one – And someone just took a photo of the clouds. It’s often Sydney the big enlargement [UNCLEAR] – Are you Mother’s companion? – ah.. children hai. – Many more miracle photographs are there but – Somehow the camera sees things more than people can see. – How long two hours lecture is going to last?

It takes about one hour To explain everything because somebody else will say something and then I’ll say and then about fifteen minutes for realization only; You took hardly any time. You just opened your hands and you got it. So the people are good like you it will take only one second if they have to be like you – seekers, you see, they have to be truthful people – seekers and it works out. But supposing they’re sick or something, there’s conditionings, this, that it takes little time but not much. – Mataji Aapne cha peena? – Hmm? – Cha – [UNCLEAR] [MARATHI] Her sister has come all the way but she’s busy with Me. I said, ” You go and see her.” She’s, “No Mother, I will be with You.” Her sister has come all the way from India but she wants to be with Me.

[SHREE MATAJI LAUGHS] All love, you see, just love and that it feels so protected and God loves you, you see, He doesn’t want you to suffer; This is a nonsensical idea of Christianity. Actually recently, Thomas when on his way to India, was in Egypt and he wrote all the treatise about Christ and he put it in a big jar. They opened it and in that they found so many things written just what I say. He said, “God doesn’t want you to suffer, Christ has suffered for you, don’t have to suffer.” So the whole thing is absolutely challenging the theories that, “You must suffer for God.” It’s all nonsense. Why should you suffer? He’s your father. No father wants his children to suffer and He’s the Father of all the fathers. Why will He want you to suffer?

Is illogical. And the priests say that they same to [UNCLEAR] have a good time, like on Saturday you’re not allowed to go out and have a good time because next day you have to go to church. What do You think about that? What is [UNCLEAR]. You see, Sunday is for enjoyment actually [LAUGHTER] All these things are – I don’t know why they say, “You’re sinners.” This this is not the way to talk to people, I mean, to make them feel miserable and the first condition in sahaja yoga, “You’re not to feel guilty for anything.” – If you, even if you do something – Wrong, doesn’t matter, after all you’re human-being – Hmm, hmm God cannot do wrong but human-beings can do, so it’s alright; At a human level is alright. Once you get a your enlightenment, then you don’t do wrong things so you are excused. Forgiveness is there; You have to be completely forgiven. You see, these All-Pervading power of God’s love is an ocean of forgiveness.

What can we commit mistakes – all the time to feel guilty. Is all money-making proposition, I think. “That you have committed sins – alright, you pay us the money and sins will be wiped out.” Common with every religion – even in India they do the same thing. “Now you committed a sin, alright, you give us this things, so we’ll tell God and it’ll be all cleared out.” [LAUGHTER] – “Did you confess?” “Yes.” “Since you confessed, – You see, – your sins will be wiped out.” Han, after all we must understand God. He’s, He’s love, He’s love He understands human-beings and He loves them.

He doesn’t go on punishing all the time, that’s not his job Actually we in our, in our stupidity, we are the ones who create problems – He does not – for each other. How many hours do You sleep? [ALL LAUGH] Not many. – [UNCLEAR] – Very little. – Very little. – Also I eat very little, sleep very little. Also, you see, I don’t need much sleep and I’m quite full of energy. I’m now 67 years of age and I travel so much and this – Last night I must have at slept 2 0’clock or 3 0’clock? – 2 0’clock – 2 0’clock I must have slept. – Hmm, hmm [UNCLEAR] three hours later.

Yeah. – You have been energy with 5-6 hours of sleep per night? – Day time I sleep for a while always little bit but night time I can keep awake [LAUGHTER] and I can travel – I have no problems of these jet lag and all that. Never I have these problems. Supposing I am travelling now – some people who travel they have to adjust to the timing – the timing adjust according to My [UNCLEAR – SLEEP?] [LAUGHTER] there’s no problem, nothing. Travelling is no problem; I travel such a lot, such a lot I travel but I don’t think there’s anything uh… wrong with travelling – wrong with ourselves because you just think you are there – you are there, that’s all – whether you are travelling or sitting at home or going anywhere. You are there, that’s all. Why to think you’re travelling? If you start you are travelling then you start feeling that, “Oh,” something you have done.

You’ve done nothing, you’re just there. – And where do you get all this energy from? – Beg your pardon? – Where do You get all this energy that – It’s coming, I see it’s there All-Pervading You’re connected to the mains now You should have given her some tea or something. – Chah [UNCLEAR]. What would you like to have, some cold drink? – No, fine, thanks, I’m fine – What, or some tea? – No, thanks – Something? Anything that you – you have come to Mother’s house. Better have something – I’ll have a cup of tea, thanks.

I think give her something good to drink. – I’ll have a cup of tea, thank You. – You made something else? – Yes, Mother. – I was making [UNCLEAR] – Let Me see. – [INAUDIBLE] – [UNCLEAR] all the Australian [UNCLEAR] – Really? – [MARATHI] – [MARATHI] – [MARATHI] combination is tremendous but the central one is not the real stone. – Yes, Shree Mataji – Is real? – No – All of them are real stones? – Yes – Diamonds – This emerald is real?

[UNCLEAR] – Very delicate!I must say It’s a very delicate thing you have done, really. – Hmm. Yes your designs are very delicate and – The combination is [UNCLEAR] – and they have a [UNCLEAR] – Just have a look, it’s very delicate. It was after two important event [INAUDIBLE N UNCLEAR] – [UNCLEAR] – What is the material – [UNCLEAR] – [MARATHI] – Annh? – [UNCLEAR] – [MARATHI] How much is – [UNCLEAR] I’m trying to check my [UNCLEAR] – [MARATHI] [MARATHI] [MARATHI] [MARATHI] [MARATHI] – Are you going to interview? Yes. Can I sit there? Can I hear you? – Yeah. – May, I have some questions, Mother.

[UNCLEAR] – Do you have [UNCLEAR]? – [UNCLEAR] – Really? – Yes, very big problem in Australia [UNCLEAR] and in [UNCLEAR] – They’re spending quite a lot of money trying to research the truth, Mother. – They won’t believe Me if I tell them the truth. – That’s what [UNCLEAR] if Mother could find a way and explain – Yes, of course, we can but if they listen to Me – I don’t know if they’ll listen to Me – [UNCLEAR] – Alright. The first question is, “Why was Melbourne chosen for the initial Spiritual education experiment?” It was not chosen, it was sahaja, you see. [SHREE MATAJI LAUGHS] – I don’t know if the readers of The Herald would understand that. [LAUGHTER] – You see, in the sense that, we had a building and we had students, we had teachers – so naturally, the whole thing worked out. Moreover I think, Melbourne has a temperant uh… climate, in the sense that people are not extremist also here.

There are many people who do not drink and go to extremes and – I mean, good parents. They are temperant because of their children, you see. So that was also a good thing there were good parents here. Yes it has been tried elsewhere; Uh.. we have one in Dharamshala which is at the foothill of Himalayas – that’s one school, one in Delhi, uh… one in Rome, one now in Milan. Now another we are starting near Bombay, Vashi and Vaitarna ultimately. “Why did you choose again Russia and why are they [UNCLEAR] so ready?” Again, I never chose it as far as I know [SHREE MATAJI LAUGHS] It so happened that it’s a just a chance. Uh.. one of the sahaja yogis, it’s Yogi Mahajan, he met an ambassador – Russian ambassador, in Delhi who asked him, “How are you so peaceful and relaxed and all that. Who is your guru,” sort of thing and he said about sahaja yoga; Because they were surprised. He was in a party and everybody’s getting drunk and saying all kinds of things and.

So they were surprised at him the way he was looking at everyone and the way he was absolutely so dignified. Then they asked the question, you see, and he said that such and such thing. Then he said, “Can She come to Russia?” And there was one minister that time there, who also – was interested and they both got realization. – Russian minister? – The minister, yes he got realization. He was amazed that how could Yogi, another just a disciple sahaja yoga, could give realization! So he told him, “Can we get Shree Mataji here, to Russia?” That’s all and we arranged the timing and I was there. Uh.. we had some uh.. Russians in London – Magdan, you know – he, actually he is an Australian but he’s Russian and also he’s a doctor.

So went him first, we sent him first – few people went there and they worked it out and I was surprised that, they were, as if they were waiting for Me. You know there were two thousand people on the first program we went to, outside and two thousand inside and they said that, “Now, we cannot go inside because there’s no room.” My lecture lasted for about one and a half hour or so and then realization all that – I came out and I find they were all still sitting there waiting for Me. They said, “Now what about us?” So I said, “Alright, you come here and we’ll have the program outside.” Next day in the morning, the two thousand outside ones and the two thousand inside ones all of them [UNCLEAR – CAME?]. And then the second question is that ‘Did the Russian government become interested in sahaja yoga teachings and – imparting it into their education system from there?’ – Yeah, they did. You see, to begin with uh.. we have got three doctors, who have got M.D., in Delhi; They’re very open-minded people as far as the scientific side is concerned and they were surprised at the papers we produced. And also we have so many people cured in sahaja yoga but when they saw all these things, you see, they said, “We must just have it here,” on the Medical terms and the doctor, who was the head of the Health ministry, invited us to his office and he said that, “I’ll give You an independent charge and do what You like.”

But this is the easiest because don’t have to pay for anything, you get cured – I mean, this is something they could not understand so he gave us an independent charge, on the Medical side. Then I think, somebody visited the school in Delhi, perhaps, I don’t know what happened but they wanted very much the school on the [UNCLEAR – SIDE?] because they’re having the same problems, as you have, with their children. They have drug problem, uh.. there are parents who are separated and and children are becoming quite violent – all the same problems as you have so they wanted to change the lives of their children and they asked us if, they could, we could take over one school. They were willing to give us a big building, students, everything and free passage to the teachers and also payment to them and to Me also. I said, “I don’t need, I have money, I can.” “Oh, Oh, we would like to pay for You.” So the whole thing is so spontaneous as if they have found something very great they know, that’s what they wanted to implement. Can you explain the nature what is so different about sahaja yoga education than normal education? – Other schools?

Yes. – You see, in other other schools they just give mental studies to children, only mental but they don’t teach them to respect themselves and to respect others. Minimum of minimum they should have taught – that is not there.They don’t even respect the teachers. Also the teachers may not be of that quality to command that respect; Possibly, I don’t know what is the situation. Now, in sahaja yoga when the children come in, first of all they are all given realization, their parents are given realization as a result there’s a transformation and children become extremely obedient, respectful, sensible, tolerant and they’re so beautiful. And as you know, there are many children born are realized souls so they also have a place to go to. Even Russia has so many children. – Could You explain what’s realized souls, born realized souls? Realized soul children are those who are in connection with the All-Pervading power. – How does this make them different?

Because that, that transforms them completely. They become uh.. righteous and they become so powerful, they’re not afraid of anything At the same time they become compassionate because these are the powers of this All-Pervading power. Is there a way to make people understand how these children are being born now what [UNCLEAR]? I mean, many people don’t know these children. You see, they are born to them. They don’t understand them why children behave like this, why they react like this, why this is – like if you see to the Freudian theories are all absurd that if the child puts a finger in the mouth he says it’s sex – it’s not. He’s trying to show that this is the center is catching and you are in him. They don’t understand how to depict it so everything goes to sex – is not true. So, they’re brought up in the right perspective with love, affection and respect. In all the schools we respect the children and teach them that, “You are now yogis you have your own dignity and you have to behave like a yogi; You can’t behave like ordinary stray dogs.

And then they understand the difference. You shouldn’t go on barking at people; They understand that we’re human-beings, we’re not dogs. So the way we teach them also, you’ll system is such a system that they develop their own dignity, serenity, their deeper personality and they mature very fast, mature; They’re very matured people. How would ordinary parents as parents discover their children are they born-realized children? From everything, first of all they don’t tell lies, they don’t steal things, they’re very satisfied, contented but they stand against injustice. I give an example of My own grand-daughter; They went down to Ladakh. My son-in-law, you know, he’s written this book about Himalayas so they went down to Ladakh and there was one lama sitting on a mount and talking something, wearing some sort of a coat – choga as we call there – and everybody was bowing. This girl couldn’t bear it, you see, but still she was watching – she was hardly five years and then she saw her parents because out of everybody’s touching his feet, so they also went and bowed. Then she couldn’t bear it, you see. She went and stood before him with her hands like this.

She said, “Aye you, one who is wearing such a long dress, you’re not a realized soul, why are you making everybody touch your feet?” And these two parents were so embarrassed. Also once we had a meeting. They invited Me as a Chief Guest for this Raman Maharishi, who was a realized soul and all his disciples are hopelessly bad but they had invited somebody from Ramakrishna ashram who was wearing the same sort of a dress and sitting next to Me. So the another grand-daughter was, they were all sitting in the front line – so many sahaja yogis had come so she suddenly got up. She said, “O grand-mother, please ask this man with a maxi to get out. He’s emitting so much of heat and we can’t bear it.” And he’s supposed to break uh.. Vivekananda there, sitting there; His name was Akhandananda, you see. He got, later on he got a cancer and died also. So that’s how they behave.

You know, their behavior is something very unique and they have great affection and compassion, right attitude but people find them absurd because if they are girls and boys, they don’t like to have dates and things like that, they don’t indulge into sex uh.. before marriages and they don’t have – they’re very innocent. How can parents nurture their children and look after them, protect them? Parents must get their realization to understand these children, you see. Actually these children have ventured to be born to people like that, is rather dangerous. Mostly they are born to people who are sahaja yogis. All sahaja yogis get children like that, all sahaja yogis. – Will there be another school in Melbourne for these children? – You should try, I’ve been telling you. You should have one more, will be a good idea. School is very important.

These children, I look at them, the society is so bad. They were telling Me children under twelve also take drugs here, you see; It’s such a challenging society and these children will be lost. If you have a proper school, it will help everyone. What do You say as the future [UNCLEAR], will they settle down for a different form of government? Of course, they will. You see, there are two types of people in Russia, I found out. There’re people who are taxi drivers and ordinary labor class and all that kind of people and there are very well educated people also, very well educated, intelligent people, very well read professionals, doctors, very enlightened people as far as education is concerned. So these drivers and all that they hanker after – and if you go there, they’ll ask for an American cigarettes or things like that. Their, their level is different but most of these people, they just want their Spirit. Now this uh.., this Muslim, what they’re called as – Azerbaijan – Azer, Azerbaijan?

Azerbaijan They were, when I had gone to Russia earlier also, they were really rolling in complete wealth. They had big, big beds, what we call as takhatas – as big as this and under the grape vines, you see, vines – and they would take out the grapes and eat like – you see, once upon a time [UNCLEAR] – [UNCLEAR] – same style, you see, lordly and will have hookas and all that to smoke while on the other side, the Afghanis, poor things, are poor people and they were very rich people, I saw there in essence, that food and wines and drinks and everything, clothes – Russians have very good clothes also; Very cheap, you won’t believe how cheap the clothes are! Everything so very cheap there, so very cheap. Travelling is five P for miles together, beautiful trains and all. Now the problem came in when Gorbachev came that the beaurocrats didn’t want democracy because they’ll be losing the power so they created this problem, artificial problem – this is just an artificial problem. They have lots of food, they have everything but what Gorbachev has found out that unless and until you have incentives, people don’t want to produce more and in Russia everybody gets a house, everybody. As soon as you get married, you get a flat. And they have no idea. They think that in the West it’s all paved with gold; They think like that – which is not. So their life was not such a struggling one but he felt that after some time the incentive to work, will go away and was little bit diminishing also.

They couldn’t produce sufficient food and things like that, their interest changed so he thought is best is to bring democracy by which people will feel that this is their own land and they should work it out and they should have incentives. Australia is in the middle of one Federal election campaign, do You feel that they are any enlightened politicians in [UNCLEAR -MANALOT?]? [LAUGHTER] I think, New Zealand had one – he’s no more now, I don’t know where is he gone. – He’s retired. – He still in the government there, Mother but he’s taken another post out of the Prime Minister – He’s taken another? He’s another, he’s minister, he’s Attorney General or something like that rather than Prime Minister, Mother. They must have tortured his life, he’s alone. You see, for that you have to have many people [UNCLEAR] I don’t know. Just pray you get somebody like that. I work with two politicians also.

I work with State politician and the Federal one so they’re nice people, I hope – that – Better give them realization. – I spoke to them about You but they’re still little bit of stand off [UNCLEAR] – Could we talk of the International Ordination of Women [UNCLEAR]? – Have an absurd, Absolutely absurd! You see, I asked My father why, at least Martin Luther should have brought forth renewal of Christ’s Mother – why didn’t he do that? And he said, “Perhaps this was expediency on his part because he thought that time there were Muslims and Muslims would not accept a woman to be something like that so just to please the Muslims he must have done it. I said, this is the biggest mistake because women are the shaktis, they are the power, they are the potential power of and to say they cannot have ordination, I mean, is absurd absolutely. Actually, all this is the work of the Primordial Mother, of Athena. Also to say there is Holy Ghost like a dove is another misleading point. You have Father – alright – you have the Son as God – what about the Mother? – Yeah.

[LAUGHTER] – Logically. That’s the Mother missing, which we call as the Holy Ghost, is the Mother. And Christ has said, “I will send you the Holy Ghost.” How can He send the Holy Ghost? Is He going to send a dove from there or what? This more with the cap