Interview

(Australia)

1990-03-15 Interview Australia Source NITL, 49'
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Interview – Australia, Early Teachings of Shri Mataji 1990-03-15 

Indians believe that it is the mother Primordial Mother that created this universe and the Father is the one who is the spectator.

Question:  Is that Hindy belief?

Shri Mataji: Indian.  Also I think the Greeks see believe the same way. They believed in Athena. Athe means primordial in sanskrit language. Athea is the primordial mother. I think they all believed in it before but then somehow or other accent was more on God the Father. [unclear] The Father is the spectator and the Mother is the creator, and there’s the Son of God. The Trinity is like this – the Holy Ghost is the primordial Mother. 

Question: So when did you first know that you would speak [unclear] right from the beginning when you were a child?

Shri Mataji: I was born like that. I knew that. Something different.

 Question: And how did you come to found Sahaja Yoga?

Shri Mataji: Sahaja Yoga is a very old system which was used before also. Very ancient. Thousands of years back.  It was used even in Partantha Yoga, but that time there were very few seekers.  Like you can see on the tree of life there were one or two flowers but now it’s a blossom time. It’s a special time now.

Question: Why is it special?

Shri Mataji: [unclear]  Life is special.

Question: So what do you offer? What is your philosophy?

Shri Mataji: It is the last break-through of our evolution now. We are at  human level but still we do not know the truth, the absolute truth. And this break-through has to take place. Of course as I told you it’s an ancient system. But it was for only one or two persons. The modern Sahaja Yoga is for masses – en-masse realisation.

Interviewer: En-masse realisation?

Shri Mataji: So that people get it in thousands. I mean say in Delhi I saw a thousand people.  In other places, 14 thousand people and they all get realisation. It’s very very fast and once you get realisation and you establish it you can give realisation also, that’s how it spreads. 

Question: And how do you achieve something like this?

Shri Mataji: There’s a power within you which is called as Kundalini in Sanskrit language. Kundalini means a coil. Just a coil, three and a half coils, it’s a mathematical theory and when it is awakened it’s like a primule in a seed. It sprouts and passes through six subtle centres and ultimately pierces through this centre which we call your bramarandra. That is the fontanel bone area, where it was the soft bone in your childhood and you get the actualisation of baptism. Actualisation. It’s not just somebody saying artificially, now you are baptised. And you feel the cool breeze of the Holy Ghost. Holy Ghost is the Kundalini. According to Sahaja Yoga, Holy Ghost is the Primordial Mother, and the reflection of the Primordial Mother is the Kundalini. And when She rises it pierces through and gives you your self-realisation. That means She connects you to the all pervading power which is a subtle power which does all the living work. 

Now this is the truth one has to realise, but one must keep the mind open like a scientist. And if it works you have to accept it honestly. 

Question: But I’m just intrigued in the mechanics of how you can make it happen to yourself,  You have to have someone to do it for you? 

Shri Mataji: Yes. It’s like one candle which is enlightened can enlighten another candle. 

Question: And is this what you do in your programs and..?

Shri Mataji: Yes. Christ has said, no doubt that we have to be born again. It’s an actualisation.  It is not just a certificate that you are born again. What are your powers? If you are born again then you become a righteous person. You become extremely compassionate. You become extremely dynamic.

At the same time you are very affectionate, kind, and you emit peace. You emit joy and you can also transform other personalities. So there’s a complete transformation takes place, and that transformation if it is en-mass there’s a great chance for humanity to be saved, and the world [unclear] it has to be en-mass.

Question: Do you feel that you can accomplish this in your lifetime?

Shri Mataji: I hope so. Now we have over 40 nations, somehow it’s now just an explosion I feel. Some people might miss it out. I don’t know, might. But as it is we have thousands of people who have got realisation. And once they go about giving realisation it works  wonders. Especially I was surprised at certain places like USSR. Wonderful people.  I mean I went to Leningrad where no one had heard about Me, nothing. There was an aggressive man maybe who might have known about Me.  I have no idea. There were 2000 people in the hall and 2000  outside sitting and I went inside and I talked to them, gave them realisation and I came out, they were all sitting outside.  So they said, “What about us”? I said, “All right, tomorrow you  come, we’ll have it in the open”.  They all were there 2,000 and the 2,000 inside were also, and they are all Sahaja Yogis. It’s very surprising, and everywhere they were in thousands.  Also these Eastern bloc people came down for the yoga seminar,  and they got their realisation. When they went back from [Krakow?]

Interviewer: And did you feel that you were responsible for that?

Shri Mataji: They got their realisation, must have,  because it happens. And now we have centres in all these countries. 

Interviewer: And I understand it’s been taken up by the Education Department.

Shri Mataji: Yes for education [unclear]  Also here we have got three doctors who have got MD in Delhi of Sahaja Yoga because it also cures you completely. For your information it was cured,  not I cured but it was cured I should say because it cures by your own power, to AIDS patients in Perth. 

Interviewer: In Perth yes, You did?

Shri Mataji: I didn’t do it. 

Interviewer: When you were in Perth?

Shri Mataji: Yes. It worked out. I hope they are all right. They completely changed. 

Interviewer: Well, I mean, that’s miraculous. 

Shri Mataji: Well because we have cured. There was one  called, [Dranby?] in here, they cured him but he had no will power.  He actually went back to the same bad habits, then he got it back and then he died.  And there’s one still going on he’s all right for how man years? Five years. 

Interviewer: This was when you came five years ago?

Shri Mataji: Yes. But I always thought that they were weak. [unclear: auras were weak]  But now these two persons, they are husband and wife and I think he’s all right.

Interviewer: I have been told that there’s quite a lot of  miracles associated with You. Can you fill me in? What sort of examples, other examples?

Shri Mataji: You can’t believe them. What should I tell her? A recent one?

Sahaja Yogi:  The one in [Al] that would be interesting to you. The man in the radio station in..

Shri Mataji: The man in the radio station. He was just talking to Me.  

Interviewer: In Auckland?

Shri Mataji: Yesterday. He was speaking in an interview and suddenly he felt on his hands a cool breeze. He said, “God what’s happening?” He was just changed the topic. He said “He said what’s happening to me?” I said what’s happening”. He found a cool breeze in his hands. Coming to me and he said [Unclear: There’s [unclear] out of my head and I said you need a little balance.  I gave him a little balance, raised his kundalini and yes. He said there’s a violent cool breeze in my hands he said. 

Sahaja Yogi: This man was a well-known cynic.

Shri Mataji: He said I am a cynic.  I’m not a – I’m not a conformist,  I’m not going to believe into anything but this is really there. I cannot say no.

Sahaja Yogis.  Apparently the workers in the station couldn’t believe their ears they all came running to see what was going on.

Shri Mataji: This is normal because this happens all the time but miracles could be the photograph.

Sahaja Yogi:  I’ve shown her three of them.

Shri Mataji: That’s something – the .. in the sky.  But people don’t believe that’s the problem.  They don’t know how miraculous is God’s will.

Interviewer: Also there are a lot of false prophets too aren’t there?

Shri Mataji:Too many. Too many. Easy to make them out because their interest is very selfish. They want money.  They are all money-oriented firstly and people are attracted to them because they charge money, it’s very surprising, really very surprising. That [unclear] told Me that he had to  advertise that he’d take $50 so so many people. And she took the $50, gave them realisation and   returned the money.

Sahaja Yogi:  Otherwise they wouldn’t come.

Interviewer: It’s an indication of how deeply materialistic we’ve become isn’t it?

Shri Mataji:I think there they cannot trust anybody that is free that’s the point.  They think that somebody takes money it must be worth it. But it is invaluable. You cannot pay for it. It’s a living process. What do we pay to the Mother Earth when she gives us so many things. In the same way you can’t pay for it.

Interviewer: Well we’ve been abusing it.

Shri Mataji: Very much we are abusing it because you are in imbalance. Because you are in imbalance that is the protection of Christ. Whatever we are doing with Christ, it’s your [unclear]. The way we are becoming as you said materialistic, too much is very bad. So many things you want to have so they are exploiting Mother Earth, creating problems.  So you come into balance also. So as soon that happens you come into balance. Once you are in balance that is manifested outside also. 

Interviewer: It’s fascinating that people in society in the soviet block listened to you because they have the worst environmental programmes.

Shri Mataji: I tell you they really didn’t have freedom to discuss politics and that freedom to read, freedom to develop themselves.  Most, all of them I would say have lived on a budget and some of the doctor of this, doctor of that, all very well educated people. Also the taxi drivers and all that are different type of people or a  labourer or something, they were asking for a medical certificate. But it’s all right. But most of the people were so aware that I don’t know perhaps that disciplining has helped or what has happened so much. Surprising.

Interviewer: Would you say that Gorbechev is a realised  soul?

Shri Mataji: He is a saint. He is a saint no doubt. 

Interviewer: Why do you feel this?

Shri Mataji: You can feel vibrations from him. Yes you can.

Interviewer: In his presence.

[unclear]

Shri Mataji:You see the way he is [unclear] from one side, another super power has to [unclear receive it?] He is a very wise man but actually I think Americans still don’t understand his value because they are still criticising him and it is wrong. Whatever they are propagating in Azerbaijan. See they are useless people.  Absolutely fundamentalist. I’ve been there actually myself and they were [unclear: holding] him all kinds of comforts. That’s all the production of food and everything and [unclear] they were giving.  They said we are only unhappy because he can’t follow Islam. I said what’s the use of following  Islam? So they are following Islam.  What good has it done to them? Why do you want to follow them? That sort of religion and this government has taken away our religion and all that. And now the Iranians are helping them. So indirectly you see, criticising Gorbachev for that and taking advantage of, they are helping Iranians and their fundamentalism.

We must have certain qualities on some principles isn’t it but this is not you support some part because it suits you or you support people like Azerbaijan and all these people are absolutely nonsensical. And when he is talking of freedom, when he is talking of democracy, these people have suddenly come up. Now they should be  [not correct].

Interviewer: Of course he is facing incredible problems.

Shri Mataji: Yes. And also the bureaucrats there. The bureaucrats there feel they are powers will be lessened once he makes a democratic. So they are also troubling him and also they are stopping all the provision of food.   But they have lots of food, everything they have, but they are just stopping it, just to create a problem for him. But he’s a saint. I am sure he is realised. Other people are very satisfied, they are not bothered. They are not participating. They are just seeking their spirit. The Russians are wonderful people otherwise. They had horrible people, Stalin, this, that, lots of people they had. But Lenin also was a saint and he also wanted that people should take to Spirit actually but he had to ease to the Party because he was alone [unclear to do it] but he did talk that once materially you are satisfied then you will take to the spirit and then you will be stateless [ government].

Interviewer: Yes he was very visionary. Do you believe we are on the start of a new age?

Shri Mataji: Of course. Of course I do believe. A new age has started and we are [unclear seeking].  It has started.  I hope it works out.  If people take to the Spirit. It has to become gradual.  You see because of these horrible false gurus are there, coming down and who do not care for any of your realisation or anything.  They just care for your money. So these people think this lady doesn’t charge any money so what’s the use of going to Her? Very casual. It is difficult to convince them. But they must have self-esteem and know that they are [unclear trusting] something. They have not come here on this earth just to live like human beings but there’s something higher for them.  And it’s said by Christ whom they follow. Also in the Scriptures.

But even Christianity has become Paulean Christianity I think.  It’s not a real Christianity I see. What Christ has said is not there. There’s more organisation, money-making. It has become money-oriented. Every religion has become like that. [unclear] in the name of Christianity.

SahajaYogini:  Power-oriented as well. 

Shri Mataji: Power and money but not spiritual oriented. 

Interviewer:  So what do you see are the challenges of the 90’s? I mean what do you see happening in the world?

Shri Mataji: Ignorance is the worst of all. Ignorance is there that they do not know what is [Bhairava] and that’s what we have to achieve. But that’s the greatest challenge today and another is also arrogance.

Interviewer: What did you say?

Shri Mataji: Arrogance.

Sahaja Yogi:  And fundamentalism.

Shri Mataji: And so-called science addiction, because science has no humanity. Science has no humanity. It has no love.  It has no affection. It has no poetry. It has no creativity. So those who are just boasting of science will create nothing but atom bombs. 

Interviewer: These qualities that you are advocating are often associated with the feminine principle Which has [a thing that the male can’t… in the world]

Shri Mataji: Femininity but of the feminine also I think men are better off because they are becoming like that.   Because who will do this part? This is so important. This is a nourishment. And spirituality is a nourishment for all these developed countries because [unclear:which are developed] They have developed without knowing their [unclear] They have to know their being, that is spirituality.

Interviewer: What particular social problems concern you?

Shri Mataji: I think fundamentalism is the first.  First is the fundamentalism. I mean on an international level. Fundamentalism, because everybody thinks they are the chosen one. Problems and ignorance.  So I think that’s the greatest problem we have. And the second problem we have the confusion. We don’t know. We don’t know what a woman’s soul is, what a man’s soul is. Or we don’t know how the society should be. What is the position of society? How important is society? There’s just a big confusion about it. Like if it is democracy, it is money-oriented. Has to be corruption. You can’t avoid it. Any place.  I’ve seen all the democracies. Now if you go to America in New York, you can’t wear even a ring.  Anybody might take it away. But the violence in America.  [unclear] Los Angeles. Other day I was going. They said that last week eleven people were killed on this road.  I said “Why”?  There’s no respect for human life. So this is supposed to be the highest society? And then we have another war which is Communism, which is power-oriented, so both are wrong.  But it in Sahaja Yoga you combine both. Power. Now say if I have power I am the greatest capitalist.  but  I can’t live with my power, so I am the greatest communist. Power is very easy actualised after realisation.

Interviewer: I’m told that you were born into a very wealthy family and that your father gave away all his money to support Gandhi and the independence movement.

Shri Mataji: Yes. Ours is royal family. A very ancient royal family. Was known  Salivana. They also have a  calendar. In a way it’s a family but then as time passed on and all this disappeared and My father’s mother had to leave that place and go away somewhere,  look after her children. But when Ghandichi, he needed a lot of money [unclear:] gave him whatever was possible but houses and cars [unclear]

Interviewer: You were tortured.

Shri Mataji: I was Myself tortured quite a lot.  It’s all right because now they are finished. 

Interviewer: What did they do to you?

Shri Mataji: You see they gave Me electric shock. Put me on ice slabs and things like that. 

Interviewer: Did that strengthened you that experience in some way?

Shri Mataji: I don’t mind it because I [unclear:]….They wanted facts from me. Information about people…some were.[unclear].

Interviewer:  How old were you then? How old were you at that time?

Shri Mataji: I knew it because you see, I knew all about it and they thought  I knew  [unclear: better than anyone else]

Interviewer:  But you were just a young girl at that time.

Shri Mataji: Yes I was very young.  It’s all right. I was very strong. My principle met Me the other day who I was in My college and he said that I saw you standing before all the guns and everything and all these visitors facing you there, standing before the gate of the college all alone. [unclear: and I just thought what a power She has]  all alone standing there,  all these people with their guns towards Her.  I said I knew they cannot kill me like that. 

Interviewer: So what does it feel like to be called the greatest living saint? 

Shri Mataji:  I just laugh at it.

Interviewer: How can you laugh at that? 

Shri Mataji: Because it is nothing so great. Whatever I am, I am, I am not…there’s nothing great about it. They are great because they are [teachers].  I am not a [teacher].  I was born like this.  I am like this.  What is so great about it? If the sun has the light, it’s all right it has the light,  or we are not proud about it. In the same way there’s nothing so great.  They call Me like that, all right, if they want to.

Interviewer:  So you feel it was a gift given to you. 

Shri Mataji: I would say, I think it was innate nature of Mine. Born with that. 

Interviewer: Great.Well thank you very much.

Shri Mataji:  [unclear] between husband and wife

Interviewer: Oh ok,  ….relevant. That’s a second fundamental problem.

Shri Mataji: They don’t understand each other at all. I think they are like two wheels of a chariot, complimentary to each other, they are equal.  But they are not the similar. They are not similar. If you want to put the left wheel on the right it doesn’t fit it. And then all these confusions start. And if the women are given proper identity by men themselves they won’t do all these things. But they can’t they are suppressed all the time and they are treated just like dirt sometimes. In their housewives nobody respects them. But who’s going to look after the children? Who’s going to look after the household also. And the society is made by women. Only the women can make the society, not the men. Men can’t. They don’t have that patience that the women have. But the idea is that you must earn, you have money otherwise you are no-one. But not in India. In woman is respected very  by the men. 

Of course we have problems like dowry system. This system was started.  But dowry was started by English women.  We never knew this.   You don’t know that?  You see it was so that the eldest son gets [unclear] with property then the second son gets [unclear] but the daughter is not given any part of the property in the Indian law, used to be.  So then if she doesn’t get anything she should be given something. So we used to give things to the daughter in a different way. But then English said, “No, that’s not the way.  You must give them cash money”. They started giving them cash money which should not be counted [unclear] things and all that. According to the status of the father whatever was there the father is [unclear] the daughter is love. But now because of this kind of a cash business it has become like a market, in some societies, not all. Not all.  

In My marriage My husband never took anything.  In My daughter’s marriage also we didn’t give anything.  So it’s not very common but one or two cases here and there you hear. But you are shocked sometimes. It is dangerous.  Otherwise women are very much respected. We had a Prime Minister who was a woman and on the whole women are respected.  If they are housewives they are respected anywhere I think. In the house your wife is always respected. Even in English society now I  have been with my husband – if she is the housewife she has to sit next to her husband. Not the secretary doesn’t sit next to the husband or anything. I mean, there is a thing is accepted. But it’s so superficial that the women don’t feel that they are really respected and that’s why they divorce. And the children suffer, the family suffers. They must have beautiful families to begin with and we have many marriages in Sahaja Yoga. Last year we had 82 marriages and most of them are very settled and they have beautiful children.  I’ve seen the children. Very sweet. They are all born realised. They are born realised. Because there are so many souls who want to be born.   Great intelligence of a great spiritual marriage. They haven’t got proper parents the ones that see a Sahaja Yogi,  they come down. They are all born realised souls. They’re beautiful. 

Interviewer: So if I become realised I will have a realised child?

Shri Mataji: Of course. You will.  No doubt about it. Otherwise also other people are getting realised children but the problem is that if you are not realised you won’t understand it. You won’t understand. If you interpret them according to Freud, it’s all about [unclear] doesn’t work out. It’s all wrong. When they put their fingers in the mouths they are just showing the centres which are catching.  But Freud said, according to him [unclear]

Interviewer: Yes I think Freud had reasons [unclear]

Shri Mataji: Jung was a bit better. So that’s another thing is that we must have good families. Good morality. See now how many problems are created in the world these days, aids.  If the women were nice men we would not have [unclear]. In India we don’t have this problem because they are happy with their wives and the wives are happy with their husbands. Once they are married there’s no question of divorce. Very few divorces. Now this new idea has come in. So the aids we have got. We’ve got also a disease, all kinds of diseases [unclear: venereal diseases and all these] in India. So there’s a third one we have got of insecurity from the women, we get breast cancer and all that  because they are insecure. Most of these things can be balanced out  if you have a good family and sweet children. Because human beings is made very delicately. He’s not like a bull so if he has a very good family, if he is born in a very good family and then brought up properly and then he marries happily half of his system is all right.

But [with competition also] all the time the wife wants this, the husband wants this all the time you see  marrying each other for material things. Because you don’t see any joy. What gives the joy is the relationship, is the rapport that counts and this is the feminine quality.

Interviewer: Was it because of your responsibility to your family that you didn’t start teaching until 1970’s?

Shri Mataji: That was a the problem because ah, My family, of course my family were growing also  and it all spontaneously it worked out.  I was trying to find out what is the problem with human beings? Why can’t we have en-mass realisation.  There’s a better way of understanding. So because of My father’s life. Because he was also member of the parliament a member of the constitution of India, and there was of course a lot of social life and My husband’s life too. I met so many types of people on [unclear] I studied them. See what is the problem? What is the permutation, combination that works out? So I had to study them. Until the age of 47 years I just didn’t know how to place  it as you say it but I  [unclear] it then in 1970 and at same time my daughters also got married. So it just spontaneously worked out. And because the Divine Power that looks after it, that organises everything works out everything. So that was the desire of the Divine Power it worked out that way.

Interviewer:   And you don’ t find your itinerary tiring or exhausting. 

Shri Mataji [Unclear:You see last night I went to bed about 2.30, up about five of clock and all the way we were discussing Sahaja Yoga.  So I said, “All right if you want I can sleep already. Just let Me sleep for a while.” I was up [unclear] But I think you see you get such power flowing into you that you don’t feel it because now I’m 67 years of age and  I don’t feel that [tired] much only thing that [unclear, smoking?] and the women here talk too much [background noise] and that’s why I [unclear] smoking to the left, to the right. Most of them were women.  Very surprising. Not the men.

Interviewer: Insecurity.

Shri Mataji: Must be. Must be just habit. Not the men. You see that’s how this free society, this nonsensical idea, a woman marrying ten husbands and all that, they never used to give into the husband or to the wife.  You had to marry. You had to be husband and wife. Why not do it properly? 

Interviewer: You can’t see very much of your husband these days.

Shri Mataji: Oh he’s wonderful. If you want to see bad points you can see 1001.  But if you want to see good points – nobody’s perfect. And that’s how you live. That’s how you live and even if you exchange ten husbands, you can’t be satisfied. So best is to live with one. One for all. It’s sensible. Sanity is in leading a sensible life which contributes to society.  What’s the use to fight? Husbands have to bear also. Husbands also have to be considerate and understanding. Now My husband has been very kind because he saved a lot of money for Me for this work of mine. He never used to believe that…he said that you are something – he used to call Me [unclear] meaning  a realised soul.  You cannot make anybody like that. You cannot transform people. But now he has openly said that in my honesty I must accept that it is important. And he’s said it openly.  He’s also told his friends and also in the United Nations he has said it, that now it’s possible to transform human beings. But you have to understand that family life is the responsibility of a women and you have to do it very cleverly, intelligently. It’s a much more deeper work than any official work or things like that you see. How to mould your children.  How to mould your grandchildren. How to see your husband’s point of view and to create a congenial atmosphere in the house and a peaceful atmosphere, to create peaceful children. It’s a tremendous task. 

Interviewer: It is. I think it’s sometimes too hard on women perhaps.

Shri Mataji: Men have to understand now. You see they are going the other way round now I think.  Now here the men are so guilty that they are looking after the children. So that’s going to the other side.  I mean he need not feel guilty you see but he must understand the value of women’s work. And the Mother Earth, you see she’s like the Mother Earth you see she bears everything, we exploit her.  She bears it. We are like the Mother Earth.

Interviewer:  So what do you think about the tendency childcare, the women go back to work soon after childbirth?

Shri Mataji: It’s all right. If you have a child and you have to go to work you see. Still as long as you see that your main… to be..you can look after your child as well, it’s not difficult, and you can look after your household also, because I think that women have much more patience. Much more endurance than men have, much more patience. If the men help themselves and they don’t [unclear: too much] of the woman too much.  And respect them, that’s the point, respect their role. They can do both. I am also looking after My family in a way. And I am also travelling.  They don’t mind at all because they think it is very important work I am doing. Nobody minds. 

Interviewer:  How long will you keep going? 

Shri Mataji:  I don’t know. Now I am already 67. My husband said, “Till 70 only I will allow you”. But let us see. You see I don’t feel tired at all. I don’t feel anything that way. As long as I have to do it, I will do it. This is a very great work I think. 

Interviewer: You’ve really tried to do nothing less than change people’s attitudes I think worldwide.

Shri Mataji: Transformation by their spiritual ascent. Because when the of the spirit comes into your attention then you really become an enlightened person.   If you have a snake in your hands and I say there’s a snake in your hands and its darkness you can’t see you might say, “No, no, this is a rope”. But if there’s light you see everything and you just throw it away. So this transformation is the absolute truth for you. There’s no quarrel, there’s no fight. There are no [unclear:]. Also your problems get solved because you become a witness. You can’t see your problem very well. Things are much better for them they are very happy.  Physically they are all right. And as I told you two doctors got their MD in Delhi on the same thing physical fitness and one doctor got it on psychosomatic diseases, and one got it on asthma and things like that. So physically you are all right, mentally you are all right. They are peaceful.  They are joyous and you become empowered with a new awareness which we call a collective conscious, by which you can feel another person. You can feel yourself and yourself you can get into thoughtless awareness.  If you want you can think otherwise you don’t want to think you don’t need…

Interviewer:  I would like to try and hear you.  I am sure I need realisation.

Shri Mataji: Really. All right next time. Next time.

Interviewer:  Thank you very much.

Shri Mataji: Please come to the program.

Interviewer:  We will. 

Shri Mataji: There was a Greek lady.  I must tell you. She was in Germany and she got her realisation and she was dancing before us in India. 

Interviewer:  Thank you very much.

Shri Mataji: May God bless you. I must say you are very enlightened. 

Interviewer:  I don’t know.  I would like to be.  I haven’t been.

Shri Mataji: But you are a seeker of truth.

Interviewer: Yes.

Shri Mataji: Because the way you are understanding, it’s quite a difficult thing to understand. This is another problem… because whatever we see that is what we believe in. If you don’t want to believe [unclear] But there are so many seekers you know,  there’s so many people come….of course they are misplaced. William Blake has said a new category of people, men of God. Will become really the men of God and will make others men of God. He said it a hundred years back. William Blake. He was a saint. Most of the saints were treated as if they were mad or they were something absurd because there was ignorance you see. And now we have so many who are saints here. 

Interviewer: How do you define a saint?

Shri Mataji: Saint is the one who is in connection with the Divine and who knows all the laws of Divinity.  See most stops with brain but on the central nervous system you know.  But innately religious, innately. He is his own guide, his own master and he knows what’s inside. Another one who is a saint has a tremendous understanding and rapport because they are on the same wavelength.

Interviewer:  Do you think Gandhi was a saint?

Shri Mataji: Yes he was. He was. Personally I was with Gandhiji and a very fine person [unclear for ten years?] because I joined him when I was a child.  A very loving man, and he was full of discipline. He would get angry if people could not behave themselves when there’s something wrong and the only a child could soothe him bring him round. But always he said that, “Let the people [unclear] and let freedom. He challenged them. And it is all the saints were tortured, poisoned crucified. And we have a double bondage first of ignorance and another of slavery With slavery you can’t do anything. But then he died. If he lived he would have [unclear]

Abraham Lincoln…so many saints but they were singled out that no one is talking of their spirituality. Anybody who talks gets treated so badly.  Problems.

Interviewer: Most ended up in a paupers grave.

Shri Mataji: Honest men. You should see the way they were treated. Nobody is respected.  Even Kabir was [unclear] Was one saint known as [Ganeshwaira?]at the age of 23 years he wrote such pieces.  I mean, such wonderful things that even I, if I read that I just [unclear] My heart is troubled. But he had to worry himself at the age of 23 years.  Some people just tortured him and his brothers. People don’t like truth.  But now if people don’t accept truth he will be exposed and then he is caught. 

Interviewer:  Well you’ve had a [unclear] reception from me.

Shri Mataji: I think after all nobody died. See they are there still.  And they can be reborn as a realised soul.  Also thousands of years ago. A man who started astrology​? and this is a temple and this is a fact [unclear” such a thing] will happen and Sahaja Yoga will come, and the date if you calculate it properly comes to 1990,  It starts from 1970’s that happened. 1997. But it is very surprising how they have foreseen these things.  Even our [unclear] after war. 

Interviewer: Can you explain what will happen after the explosion? 

Shri Mataji: You see after the explosion we all will be enjoying ourselves that’s all. It’s a new world we’ll enjoying. They are already enjoying here but you see the only problem with them that we need to give it to more people, that’s all.  should …into…peace, that’s all.   We have quite a lot ourselves. We have so many ashrams already. And we have so many all over the world. Now they are saying, “You have not been to Japan. You need to go to Taiwan also. Already people are going to Taiwan to it out. So it was trending that way.

Interviewer: Would you like to go to every country in the world? Ideally?

Shri Mataji: I would like to because at least nobody should say that they didn’t know about it.  But  communication is modern. Communications have been very helpful. Christ could not travel like this. So I have to do that. I am going to go to all these places.  Most of the countries except for….. with my husband… like China and.  I think China is also more difficult.  They are very wise people, very wise. Some mistakes of one gentleman that’s all you can say but otherwise they are very wise. It will work out. I have hopes.