Swadishthan, Thinking, Illness Part 1

Hilton Hotel Sydney, Sydney (Australia)

1990-03-16 Swadhisthan, Thinking, Illness Part 1, Sydney, Australia (longer), 106' Download subtitles: ENView subtitles:
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1990-03-16 Nirmal Sangeet Sarita, Sydney, Australia, HD, 46'
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1990-03-16 Swadhisthan, Thinking, Illness Part 1 (talk), Sydney, Australia, DP-RAW, 58' Download subtitles: ENView subtitles:
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Public Program Day 1, “Swadishthan, Thinking, Illness”. Hilton hotel, Sydney (Australia), 16 March 1990.

I bow to all the seekers of truth.

You have to know that truth is what it is. We cannot conceptualise it with our human awareness. We cannot order it, we cannot manipulate it, we cannot organise it. It is what it is, has been and will be. And what is the truth? Truth is that we are surrounded or we are penetrated or we are nourished, looked after and loved by a very subtle energy which is the energy of divine love. 

The second truth is that we are not this body, this mind, these conditionings, this ego, but we are the Spirit. You don’t have to accept what I’m saying blindly, because blind faith leads to fanaticism. But as scientists you must keep your minds open and see for yourself what I’m saying: if it is so, honestly you must accept it. 

We know so much through science about our civilisation, our advancement. This is the advancement of a tree which has grown outside very much; but if we do not know our roots, we’ll be destroyed. So, it is important to know about our roots. And this is what it is that I would say are our roots.

As you can see, there are seven centres within us, and these subtle centres are placed in the spinal cord and in the brain. These cater to our physical, mental, emotional and spiritual needs. 

On the physical side they manifest the energy for the use of our plexuses which look after our physical problems. That is on the right side, the energy which is supplied by this yellow line, a subtle channel – we call it as the Pingala Nadi – this supplies energy for our physical and mental actions. So, this is the power of action within us which also caters to the right sympathetic nervous system. 

The another channel you see on the left-hand side is the channel by which we desire, put our energy to our desire. So, this is the power of desire and looks after our emotions. This is the one which looks after our conditionings also. 

At the end of these two channels they create two institutions: one on the right-side crosses over, and the yellow balloon that you see is the ego, is the balloon of ego that we have; and the left-hand side one that, which conditions our mind is the balloon of superego. 

As we start growing in age, by the time we are twelve years of age, these two completely meet and the soft bone in our head becomes completely calcified. Now there’s third energy within us which is in the centre, and this central energy is the one which has made us human beings. And these centres are the milestones of our evolution. So now the last jumping is left out. It has reached up to the limbic area. Now, only thing, it has to break through the soft bone in the, on the head and break through that, which is the actualisation of baptism. Baptism is not an artificial thing – it is an actualisation. But the energy that does it is, we call it sleeping energy, in the triangular bone called as sacrum. That means the Greeks knew that this is a sacred bone, that they called it ‘sacrum’. This energy has to rise and break through that fontanel bone area and connect us to that subtle divine Power which we have never felt during human awareness. 

Thus, we get connected to this divine Power, and we start feeling it on our fingertips. It’s described in the Koran that, “At the time of resurrection your hands will speak, and they will give witness against you.” That is, you start feeling your own centres – these are five, six and seven centres – and they indicate what’s wrong with you within yourself, what’s the problem. Also, you can feel the cool breeze coming out of your head, cool breeze of the Holy Ghost. Because this sleeping power which is called as the Kundalini – ‘kundala’ means ‘coils’ – is the power of pure desire within us.

(Disturbance by a man in the audience.)

What’s he talking? Ah… This is the result, you know, of tensions, on modern tensions. So many such things are happening. People have no peace. That’s what I say, the tree has outgrown itself: it must find its roots. In America they say there are fifty-five per cent people who suffer from terrible nervousness, and at least thirty per cent people have got schizophrenia. It’s a very dangerous thing. 

If we don’t understand how delicately we are made and to realise that we are human beings, the epitome of evolution, we are going to land in great difficulties. We may try to run away from reality, but reality will have an effect on us.

Now, so now we have this kind of a mechanism within us existing. Now this is a living process of evolution, and you must understand that we don’t pay for living process, and we can’t even explain it; because when you take a small little seed and put it in the Mother Earth, it germinates by itself spontaneously. 

You don’t pay to the Mother Earth anything. And when it germinates, it grows into a tree and produces thousands of seeds. So, in that little seed the map of all the things it was going to create is there. How it works, we never ask this question. We take all the things for granted. We don’t even ask the question how this wonderful eye of ours is made like a camera, and that how we are programmed within ourselves like computers. You see this is the colour; you don’t have to think about – it’s there. Through our sensory organs, how we find out things: we’d never question it. 

But to answer now all our questions, we have to become the divine computer. And that’s why we have to be connected to the mains. I call them, as the people who are self-realised, the people who have got their Spirit in their attention.

When the attention is enlightened through this happening, then you can see the absolute truth. 

Like supposing you are holding on to a snake and there’s darkness, and somebody tells – there is darkness – “But you have got a snake in your hand. I can see it”, you’ll say, “No, I think it is a rope.” Now if you put on the light, immediately that person will drop. 

In the same way, when the attention gets enlightened by the Spirit, the first nature, innate nature of the Spirit is that it manifests absolute truth. You immediately become so empowered that you give up all those habits which are destructive to your life – immediately. I have seen people giving up drugs overnight in London, alcoholism, all kinds of things. I was amazed the way it’s working.

It’s your own power within you; it’s just there, is existing. There’s no obligation of any kind, it’s just one enlightened candle can enlighten another candle. That’s how it works. 

And it has to work – otherwise, as I told you, we are standing on the brink of destruction. Leave alone things like drugs and things we take to escape reality, there are so many diseases that have come up and coming up that it is going to be very difficult for us to exist on this Mother Earth after some time: ecological problems, the uncertainty of life, the insecurities that are built within us. 

So many conditionings we have. How to get rid of them? How to be cleansed is a very big problem today. And for that I think it is important that we have to get our Self-realisation. We talk, “My, my body, my hand, my mind, my ego” – but which is this “my”? Which is the “I” behind it? And when doctors also talk about the autonomous nervous system, they don’t say what is this “auto”, who is this “auto”. We say, “Automobile” – so there is a driver sitting driving the car. But who is driving this car? That is what we have to find out. And that “auto” is the Spirit within us. Unless and until the connection with the Divine is established, all other efforts are really fruitless. 

And that’s why many people ask Me why all the religions are fighting among themselves, why people who believe in God are fighting among themselves; why they are so sinful, why aren’t they so good. The reason is, they have not found the truth as yet. Just believing in any God or being born in any religion doesn’t make you a righteous person at all: anybody following any religion can commit any sin. There’s no bondage.

But when this Kundalini rises into that green part, as you see – we call it as a Void: is the area which is like a bridging – very significant it is. 

Like Moses bridged; in the same way, this is the bridging. And this bridging, when it takes place you can cross over this ocean of illusion, as we say. But actually, this ocean of illusion is representing our ten valencies within us. We have ten valencies, ten dharmas, ten – our innate nature as human beings. 

So, when Kundalini rises into this area, it enlightens this area, and a person who is a realised soul doesn’t do anything wrong. He doesn’t cheat, he doesn’t bribe, he’s not frightened. He’s so courageous, he’s so compassionate, he’s so dynamic, he’s so loving. 

This is only possible when you are innately religious. Unless and until that happens, the religion outside, the man-made religion, cannot give you what it is promising you. And that’s why people are surprised that there is a big difference between the practice and precepts of religion.

Every religion has said that, “You seek your Self.” 

So, there was nothing wrong with all the prophets, incarnations, all the saints. They all said the same thing. But we have missed the point. Everything has become either money-oriented or is an intellectual, intellectual probing. It is through intellectual probing you reach a point where you realise that you have not reached the reality. So, what should we do? 

And this is a very great gift of modern times which was promised long time back. Is described already in our Puranas that at the time, these modern times called as Kali Yuga, the Paramachaitanya or this all-pervading Power will become active – means there is Krita Yuga, it will become active – and through it, thousands of people will get their Realisation. Even in the Bible they have said that it’s quite a limited number. John the [Saint] – John has written in his “Revelation” it’s quite a limited number, but we have already crossed that.

And so many people have to become realised souls. It’s very important today, and it’s so easy. “Sahaja”: ‘saha’ is ‘with’, ‘ja’ is ‘born’: ‘born with you’. Is the right to become one with the Divine, united with the Divine – that is “Yoga”. “Yoga” is nothing but to be united with that divine Power. That’s what “Yoga” is; all other things are subsidiary.

This union brings forth new dimensions on our central nervous system. As a evolution, we always develop a new dimension. By this you develop a new awareness of collective consciousness, by which you can feel other people, their centres. Sitting down here you can feel the centre of somebody – somebody who is dead, even you can feel his centres and find out what he was: was he a realised soul or not? You can find out about anybody whether he was a realised soul or not, sitting down here. You have to just think about him, put your hands. If you are a realised soul you can feel on your fingertips what is the problem. And somehow if you know how to correct those problems, you get rid of your own diseases and the diseases of others, your own problems and the problems of others.

First, you enter into a state of mind which we call as “thoughtless awareness.” When you cross this centre of Agnya that is placed in the optic chiasma, you become thoughtlessly aware. You are aware, but there is no thought. What a blessing it is! 

Say, I see a carpet here, it’s beautiful. And when I look at it if I start thinking, “What a good carpet!”, if it is Mine it’s a very big headache because I’ll be thinking, “I hope it goes home, is already insured, is not lost, is not spoilt” – all kinds of worries about this carpet. Thank God it’s not Mine! So, I’ll look at it, still I start thinking, “How much I should pay to get it, from where can I get it?” – all these thoughts coming.

But if I look at it without any thoughts, then the joy of its creation, to whomsoever it may belong, so-called, starts pouring on Me like beautiful flow of joy. Whatever the artist has put into it, all his joy starts pouring, that peace and that joyous feeling within Me when I don’t think about it. Thinking makes a person mad, creates lots of problems. Too much thinking is wasteful, also. As I’ll tell you about the second centre we have here, tomorrow, about the second centre, that by thinking, how many diseases you get.

The other day I was in a radio station and the gentleman was asking Me, “How can I get rid of my diabetes? You say that by thinking it happens.” I said, “Yes.” Because in India if they have to take tea in a village, the sugar is put so much that the spoon must stand at right angle! And nobody gets diabetes. But people who are sedentary, planning too much – I mean mostly, say, bureaucrats, diplomats, politicians – they are very vulnerable. What is the reason for that, which I’ll explain to you tomorrow, how we get all these diseases because we think too much and we cannot stop thinking.

But so far, we have to understand that we are all on the, either on the right side or on the left side. We are not in the centre. The centres are like this, I would say: the left and the right, and the left side and the right side join together to make the centre. 

Now supposing you are right-sided – means you are using too much of your physical or mental aptitudes, you are planning for future, you are very futuristic – then this starts extracting energy from this centre and starts moving to the left, right, starts moving to the right. 
At the same time if something happens on the left side and you get a jerk, it is broken. Then you are vulnerable to diseases which we call as psychosomatic, because this is the one is the somatic and this is the psycho. And these diseases cannot be cured. Because if somebody’s a doctor then he doesn’t know about psychology; somebody is psychologist, he doesn’t know the medicine. I mean, we have doctors for one eye and another doctor for another eye! We have gone to that limit of specialisation.

This is the science of integration. Is not a science of specialisation but integration, because this is one body which has got the nose, eyes, ears, all stuck to one body. And this is one personality, and we have to deal with this personality as a whole. But if you start treating it like one for the nose, one for the ears, it’s not going to work out. 
So, when this Kundalini rises through these centres it brings them back to normal, to the balance, integrates them one with another and connects them with the mains from where the energy flows inside. And that’s how you become very dynamic, you don’t get tired, you feel very young, you never feel your age; and you are extremely compassionate and kind, and you love to do good to others.

It is so much I have to tell you. Now Sahaja Yoga is working in forty nations, and working out very well. The most surprising place was USSR. And now the people are saying, “Mother, You have been working for twenty years in the West and only went last year to USSR, and You have more Sahaja Yogis there than You have all over the world.” Not in India: we have many more, of course, because they know about it, they were not ignorant, so it’s all right – if you forget India. I don’t know what’s so special about them that they could see this so clearly.

And one of the snags of Sahaja Yoga is that you cannot pay for it. And this really is the very great snag, I think because a gentleman from BBC in England told Me that Anglo-Saxon brain cannot understand anything that can be done without money. I said, “Who has made this brain, God or somebody else?” It’s very surprising! And even in, I went to Toronto – no, Boston – and they said, “How many Rolls-Royces You’ve got?” I said, “I have none, because I don’t take any money. Whatever I have is of My husband’s.” They said, “Then we are not interested. You have to be in the business.” It’s very shocking, this kind of a attitude towards Divine. I said, “How much money did you pay to Christ?”

Today also there was a question from a radio, and they asked Me, “You don’t take any money; then how do You travel?” I said, “So far, for quite some time I was travelling with My husband’s money, no doubt. But now we have so many Sahaja Yogis and they have some self-respect, and they don’t pay Me, they pay to the travel agents, not to Me. They don’t want I to pay for them – then tomorrow will say, “All right, You pay for our food also!’” I mean, any self-respecting people can understand that. 
So, if somebody does not take money, they go to that limit that even I should pay for their salvation, coming to their place I should pay for the hall, I should pay for everything. This kind of a brain – oh, it’s not all, all of you are not Anglo-Saxon, I hope so! – I can’t understand. And that’s why it has not come up to the point where it should have.

On the contrary, I must say Russians are very brave people. With the war they have become very strong. On the contrary, in other countries I have seen with the war they have become very nervous, very frightened. And immediately they took to Sahaja Yoga for one point, that you cannot pay for it. They could see it, that you can’t pay because it’s a living process. Is such a wisdom that clicked. 
You won’t believe, in England, I was fighting with seven hippies for four years: the questions, the bombardment and – too much! I was about to give up. They just thought that it’s something to be attacked. And that’s the reason they attacked all the saints, all the incarnations and all the prophets.

But I hope now everybody realises that we are in trouble. We are all in trouble. We don’t know what’s going to happen next day. We might get into cancer, might get into some other trouble. We might have any problem that we do not know about. We are not sure of our future. So, it is better that we get our special energy that is within us, we get ourselves enlightened and take to something that will make us much wiser, healthier, joyous and knowledgeable. “Knowledge” does not mean what you know through your brains, but on your central nervous system.

That’s what everybody said, that the time has come – it’s a blossom time, I call it. There are thousands and thousands who can get Realisation. It’s such a great blessing that we could have en masse Realisation. On the Tree of Life there would have been only one or two flowers to begin with, but today I call it a blossom time. Is actually the Day of Judgment, but “blossom times” seems better to say – is more promising. 
I hope tonight we all will get Realisation and enjoy ourselves. 
May God bless you all!

I would like you to ask Me some questions, because today is a first day. I’m sorry, the mike was not all right so they started very late, they said. The musicians have come from India – and you’d be amazed that Australians, Swiss, Germans, English, all of them have learned Sanskrit songs and Marathi songs, which is such a difficult language, all these songs – and they have learnt English songs. It was impossible to teach an Englishman one sentence in Hindi. 
One gentleman asked Me, “What do you say to the ‘close the door’?” So, My father told him, “You just say ‘there was a banker.’ That means ‘you close the door’! And for opening the door you say ‘there was a cold day.’ That’s how you will say ‘open the door’!” 
So, it was so difficult, and I’m amazed how through Sahaja Yoga they have become so dynamic.

We have got many artists now flowering out. In your country itself there are so many artists who have come out of Sahaja Yoga. They are very well known here. Also, great potters and ceramic makers have come out of this. It’s working on this part, on this area of creativity, and lots of musicians have become great musicians in India. It’s working out in another direction in England, that people are writing books and they have become good orators who would never come on the stage. 

So, this is on a worldly level, we should say. But they themselves are so patient and so loving that the happiest thing I would like to tell you is that twenty-five Germans rushed to USSR, to Russia, to help Me to give Realisation to Russians. It was very touching, really, to see Germans should feel that innately that it’s their duty to give them Realisation. They spent their own money coming down there. It’s rather difficult to go to Russia because you have to pay for the hotels beforehand and all that. They did all that and they were there. It’s a beautiful that’s happening in the world, very beautiful people. And the way they admire each other and adore, it’s wonderful.

So, I would expect you to ask Me some questions. But the questions should be relevant because I’m not here to aggress you, I’m here just to give you what you have, your own property. So, there’s no need to be aggressive with Me or to be angry with Me. I’ve not come here to take anything from you. So, in a sensible way, whatever you want to ask please ask, and we should not waste also time of other people who are anxious to have their Realisation.

Seeker: Is Mr. Gorbachev realised?
Shri Mataji: Yes, he is very much. Thank God for that!
Seeker: What about Mr. Bush then?
Shri Mataji: Who?
Seeker: Mr. Bush.
Shri Mataji: You can give him Realisation. You can.
Seeker: What for?
Shri Mataji: It’s better not to ask about that. You see, even Americans don’t understand sometimes that if Gorbachev has opted for democracy he’s not opted for an American style of democracy, because American democracy has not created a very good atmosphere. It’s a, if you go to America you can’t even wear a wedding ring. They can kill you even for a wedding ring. Such a situation is there. Horrible!
And I was going once on a Los Angeles road and the one who was driving Me told Me that “Mother, put down Your head.” I said, “Why?” And he said, “On this road last week eleven people were killed.” I said, “Why?” “For the heck of it.” I said, “For the heck of it? So mad?”

So that democracy has not created a good society, not good society. They have money, that’s all. But money is also not so much well-balanced, I would say; it doesn’t create good people, good children, good families. It should be the money which is auspicious, which should create good atmosphere. 

And very sick people there are: certain are very silly also, stupid. Like eighty-two-year-old people, cinema actors and actresses, going for a shake dance – they’re already shaking! I mean, this I can’t understand. And they, they want to ride horses at the age of ninety-two years of age. And then they fall down and die. What is the need at ninety-two to ride a horse? 
I mean, there’s no maturity. If democracy cannot mature you, then it’s not nourishing. It must mature; you must become a wiser person. If you still remain a sixteen-year-old brat, what’s the use?

So, it has failed somewhere. As communism has failed, it has also failed. But Gorbachev could see. Mr Bush has to also see that. Also, the way they are supporting these Azerbaijanis – they’re horrible people, these Azerbaijani. I’ve been there, I’ve been to Samarkand and I’ve been to all these places, and they were rolling in luxuries, rolling in luxuries when I went there, thousand time better than their neighbours, Afghanis.

But they said, “We are very miserable because we can’t follow Islam.” But I said, “Why do you want to follow Islam? What Islam has done good or Christianity has done good? Why are you so much anxious to follow Islam?” “No, we must have.” And now the Iranians are penetrating that, and if you support these Azerbaijanis you are supporting the Iranians and their fundamentalism. 

So, there’s no thought given to it. It’s not a proper vision; it’s a very blurred vision. One should see clearly what we are doing, who are we helping. There should be some principle in what we are doing. Imagine, Abraham Lincoln who started, who was a Realized soul himself, and how far you have taken him there? And there’s only one single road somewhere in his name. I mean, nobody bothers about the principles he established. 
So, something has gone wrong there. So, we must sit back and see that what’s wrong with our democracy. And in all these democratic countries all kinds of false gurus have prospered, because everybody has freedom to give the money to whosoever they like.

Yes? These two ladies …. All right, you ask first.

Sahaja Yogi: She’s been doing yoga for fifteen years. And she says she has reached all these points that You have mentioned, but she is weak on her left side. Can You help her?
Shri Mataji: Yah. It’s just the outcome of the modern yoga, absolutely. Actually, Patanjali has written such a big book on Hatha Yoga. Nobody reads that. Only they have taken a wee, wee, wee part of it, which is ashtanga, means there are eight portions out of which one portion is yam niyam, out of which it’s one-eighth of the portion is about exercise, the physical. 
But that also is to be used when your Kundalini is rising and you see the defects in your spinal cord, or anywhere in your chakras: then you must know if there is any need for a physical correction – all right? 
But the way we are doing now Hatha Yoga is like taking all the medicines of the medicine box inside, without any discrimination. So, when we pay so much attention to the physical side, we go to the right side and left side is neglected. There’s an imbalance. And you develop lots of physical troubles also – physical. 

Like these days jogging is a fashion, so everybody’s jogging. Everybody wants to be a cinema actress, or might be a beauty competition – I don’t know what they want. And they don’t understand that we are human beings, we are delicately made. Even old people of eighty years are jogging, for what? And then they get heart attacks, serious troubles. So, this kind of a Hatha Yoga weakens your left side to such an extent that a woman may not be able to produce a child, even. Apart from that, a man who does Hatha Yoga of this kind is such a hot-tempered fellow, like an oven, that you’d better approach that person with a barge-pole! God knows when he’ll jump on you. 

But in Sahaja Yoga you’ll achieve your balance. So, don’t, not to do so many exercises now, discriminately understanding which one you want, you have to do – that much you should do.

Sahaja Yogi: Yes. Then there’s one lady here who raised the hand.

Seeker: How can you tell whether you are acting from intuition or if it’s just the desire of the moment?
Shri Mataji: You mean you are asking Me or about yourself?
Seeker: In a general sense. How can you tell the difference?
Shri Mataji: Because you have not reached that state of Self-realisation. In Self-realisation if you ask a question, any question: say, somebody says, “I don’t believe in God.” All right, ask a question, “Is there God?” three times, and you get a beautiful wind coming on you. “Was Christ the Son of God?” Ask this question: you get it. Then ask about some horrid guru who has been lynching you, and you will get burns, might get even blisters. 
But unless and until you are a realised soul, you have to – it’s not easy to make it out. The only thing, you have to be connected first of all and to be established. Then you reach a state of doubtless awareness, from the thoughtless awareness. And then you become tremendous.

Sahaja Yogi: There’s one right at the back.

Seeker: Does your Realisation take place instantly or does it take place gradually?
Shri Mataji: It takes instantly, My child. It should. Most of the cases it has to; it’s so spontaneous. 
There was a saint called Ramdas who was the guru of Shivaji, a great king in India – a realised soul, again – and somebody asked that saint, “How much time does it take for the Kundalini to rise?” And in Sanskrit he said, “Tatkshane” – means “That moment.” That moment. 
But there has to be the person who gives you Realisation authorised by the Divine, and the one who is a seeker of truth. I mean, I’m Myself surprised the way it’s happening today, everywhere. These days it’s really very surprising that the Divine is so anxious to give you Realisation. Many people ask Me, “Mother, why do You give Realisation to so many people?” I said, “How can I limit it? Now it has become limitless.”
Some, like the parable of Christ, fall in the marshy land and just sprouted and lost – I know that. But they’ll come back; I’m sure they’ll come back. But some do prosper very fast and settle down. 
Imagine in a place like Russia, I thought this must be just wilderness, there I find beautiful things happening. They, they never talked of God, they never talked of religion, they never talked of spirituality. And openly I talked of God and everything; nobody arrested Me there. Here, we who worship God and who have so many churches, who have so many temples and mosques and all that, you have – I have to move like a criminal! Except for their church or their mosque or their temples, you are a “cult”; while they take all the money, everything – they are very money-oriented and power-oriented also – but you are a “cult”! Is very funny.

Sahaja Yogi: Yes, please? There’s still the another gentleman also? ….

Shri Mataji: All right. They need to ask Me ….
Seeker: Mother, I’ve been trying for about two months, but I don’t feel any cool breeze up here.
Shri Mataji: You feel it in your hands?
Seeker: No, I don’t.
Shri Mataji: All right, we’ll see about it. After the program – ah, definitely today you’ll feel it.

Seeker: Where in the seven centres would You place instinct?

Shri Mataji: You see, “instinct” is a very confusing word – all right? In the seventh centre when you arrive, you arrive in the limbic area. And limbic area has got the seven seats of seven centres. So, you cannot say that any particular place is the instinct, but the instinct comes from the Divine. So, when it is connected with the Divine, you receive it in your brain and it’s transmitted to your nerves. Also, it is transmitted to your centres, nourishing it. So, you cannot categorise it.

Yes, what is it? Ask, ask!

Sahaja Yogi: He finds it very confusing: what is mind, what is a thought and what is thinking?)
Shri Mataji: I think tomorrow I’m going to talk about thinking. In that I’ll tell you everything – all right? Can you keep it for tomorrow, please? All right? Tomorrow I’ll tell you.

Seeker: Got food anything to do with this process or technique?
Shri Mataji: You see, any kind of food that you eat has to be suitable for your temperament, your prakriti. It has to be suitable. 
Supposing you are a very right-sided person, then it’s better for you to take more to carbohydrates. But supposing you are a left-sided person, is better for you to take to proteins. There’s no hard and fast rule about it. It has to be complementary to your nature. That’s how we decide. Every individual has a different temperament, and accordingly, we have to decide what sort of food one should take. …

Sahaja Yogi: Two questions, Shri Mother. One, are You a vegetarian? And secondly, does the soul have a memory?
Shri Mataji: All right. About Me you’d better discover. You see, I don’t talk about Myself. The reason is this: anybody who tried to seek, say anything about oneself or claim anything, people have been very nasty. Christ said, “I am the Son of God” – which is a fact. They crucified Him. He didn’t tell a lie. So, I’m very tactful! So, you first get your Realisation, because I don’t want to get crucified just now; I want to postpone it as much as possible! So about Me you can find out, once you get your Realisation, is better. 

What is the second?
Sahaja Yogi: Does the soul have a memory?
Shri Mataji: Soul has a memory, of course, it has. Soul also is another subject which will take at least three, four lectures, and I have given lectures on that. You can take the tape and see for yourself, and after Realisation, you can see those dead souls also and also you can see the Chaitanya, these vibrations, as small little commas shining. After Realisation, you see them. And now there are lots of discoveries have been made which I’ve said about soul, which you can also see from my tapes and can hear about it. It’s a very long subject. All right?

Seeker:  He has some artificial heart valves and things in his body, and he wonders if a person who has artificial organs can obtain Self-realisation.

Shri Mataji: Of course, you can. Anybody who is living can get Realisation. Because you are living because there is the Spirit within you. The day the Spirit disappears from your heart, we are no more. On the contrary, your heart condition will improve, very much. Many people who had bypass got rid of it. Many people who had angina got completely cured. Many heart patients were cured completely.

Sahaja Yogi: Yes, now, you ask. Now she is asking. … Can you hear her? Little loudly, can you?

Seeker:  Apparently the authors of a lot of these chakra books say that each chakra corresponds to a different … areas. (Question continues: … corroboration of your soul, of your being. Is that actually true? Like as in the chakra here.)

Shri Mataji: Agnya.

Seeker: Yeah. If, they say that if that’s opened, you are able to perceive things in other beings; like you’re able to see where they have been and … or you are able to use psychic powers and things, you know? Is that actually true?

Shri Mataji: Yes. Now, this chakra is very important. This chakra of Agnya which is on the optic chiasma is a very important centre. It is a very constricted thing, and the resurrection of Christ has solved the problem for us because He was resurrected and He’s bestowed upon on this chakra. He’s the ruling deity of this chakra. So, when Kundalini awakens Him on this chakra, He sucks in these two balloons, as I told you: ego and superego.

Now the ego and superego are controlled by two organs or two things, what we call as the pituitary and the pineal. So, this centre controls pituitary and the pineal part. Also, it is on the optic chiasma. So, you can see things clearly through it. When it is awakened, you start seeing subtler things. But if you see the light, then it’s not correct. That means you have moved to the right because you see elements on the right side. You may see also the past: you may, you may see Krishna; you may see somebody, the past.

What you have to see, whatever you see, you are not that. Supposing I see the light, I am not the light. So, you have to be the light. So, this movement is deviation from reality. Either to the right, to the left, is not correct and should not be considered as some achievement, because seeing gives you nothing. Being gives you. It is becoming; you have to become. All right?

Sahaja Yogi: Now, is there?

Seeker:  Are our actions governed by free will, or is it just fate?

Shri Mataji: It’s free will, absolute free will. You have come here with your free will, and I respect your free will, your freedom. If you don’t want to have Self-realisation, it cannot be forced, it cannot be done. It respects your free will. You can only get it if you in free will, in your free glory, you want to have it.

In a way, of course, it does help people who live in moderation; but as I told you, the Divine is so anxious that whatever you might have been, you get your Realisation, sort of a thing happening today. That’s what I’ve seen it. So that’s what you should expect. And shouldn’t think of your past at all. Forget it.


Seeker:  What then of karma?

Shri Mataji: Karma, as I told you, is sucked in. When the Kundalini rises through this centre, She’s sucked in those two institutions. One of them is of ego. Is the only ego, tells us we are doing karmas. Animals don’t feel they are committing sins or doing karmas; only we, because we have ego. This ego is sucked in. So, all our karmas are finished. They said Christ has died for our sins, and that is proved.

So far …

Seeker:  In regard to reincarnation, do humans come back as humans?

Shri Mataji: Yes, they do. Some of them do come from animal stage also, because that we can explain why they behave like this!

Seeker:  Mother, I’ve been getting very powerful sensations on this finger here and this area here. What is the cause of that disturbance …?

Shri Mataji: What is the feeling? In the Agnya, here? Here and here. You are feeling heat?

Seeker: Pain on top of that finger and a small, a kind of heat and pain there …

Shri Mataji: Here? All right. You don’t worry about the cause. We’ll correct it. All right? It’s, it’s better not to know about it. It’s nothing serious but still… You see, this may be that – what is your job?

Seeker: I don’t have a job. I was in an auto accident last year and I’ve been incapacitated since.

Shri Mataji: Incapacitated?

Seeker: Yes.

Shri Mataji: How?

Seeker: Injuries to both legs and right up to my abdomen, right up to my chest.

Shri Mataji: What he said?

Sahaja Yogi: He’s had severe injuries to both legs and his torso up to his chest.

Shri Mataji: And on your left hand, what are you feeling?

Seeker: A lot of pain in that finger there and a pain just here which is in line with the third finger.

Shri Mataji: All of them?

Sahaja Yogi: The right Vishuddhi, Shri Mother.

Seeker: And this one here.

Shri Mataji: All right. So, this is, this is definitely connected with your body and that has to be corrected, that’s all. All right? Then you won’t feel anything.

Seeker:  Why do we take on the physical state?

Shri Mataji: You cannot get Realisation without it, My child. You cannot get it in the air!

Sahaja Yogi:  He said, “If Realisation is the dropping away of habits, isn’t riding a horse at ninety-five just a matter of habit?”

Shri Mataji: No, no, no, no, no! You didn’t understand. No! What happens, you become a very powerful personality, and you become an enlightened personality, so, you drop out whatever is bad for you, that’s all.

Seeker:  Is horse-riding necessarily bad?

Shri Mataji: Anything that is not good for you, you understand and nobody has to tell you. You become your own master, you become your own guru and you drop it. I don’t have to tell you, “Don’t do this” or “Don’t do that” – you just do it yourself. Isn’t it better for Me?

Now, so many questions; it’s ten o’clock about.


(Unclear question)

Shri Mataji: What did he say? Did you follow him?

Sahaja Yogi: I don’t think I got that one. …. I think he said, “If You promote the idea of jumping into the divine flow of vibrations and want to clear ourselves, once upon a time we jumped into the river to get clean but now the river is polluted. Are there dangers in jumping into the Spirit?

Shri Mataji: No, no, not at all dangerous – it’s wonderful! No, no, not at all dangerous: that’s a myth. That’s a myth about Kundalini. It’s such a myth they have created because they never wanted you to get your Realisation so that they could make money out of you, you see. They don’t want you to go to reality. So then, they can use you. That’s the reason they said all these things. It has no meaning. We have now been working in so many places, I’ve never seen. At the most some people, like this lady who was here was sick, was shaking her hand, and then she put it to her Mother Earth and she was sitting before Me, and she got all right. So, her shaking stopped. It was Parkinson’s. Just sitting here; she’s gone now.

Seeker:  What is the flame, Shri Mother? The Spirit? What is the flame? …. (On the chart.)

Shri Mataji: Where is the flame?

Sahaja Yogi: On the left Heart.

Shri Mataji: On the left Heart is the Spirit. Is the Spirit. It’s difficult to show Spirit, you see, so they have shown it as a flame.

Seeker:  Do dreams have a part in one’s Spirit?

Shri Mataji: They come from different areas. They don’t only come from collective subconscious, they come also from the subconscious that you have had in past lives, maybe in this life; could be from just from yesterday. So, it depends on from what area it comes. But it’s not important. Once you know the real truth, then you don’t bother about these things; because the communication is not circuitous, it’s just direct, so you know the truth. So, you’re not interested to know any more.

Seeker:  Is there a place for sorrow in someone who is Self-realised?

Shri Mataji: No, no, not at all. It’s such a joy. You see, sorrow comes through our ignorance. Also, they want to, you to feel sorry for everything, you know. Like the way they show Christ like a skeleton, you see, naturally, you feel sorry; but only Michelangelo could see clearly that it was a great Personality. So, he painted Him like a great giant in the, you see Him in the Sistine Chapel. But below on the table, they have placed a skeleton of Christ which is, creates such horrible feelings within yourself. I think we should ask one of these priests to carry one, the cross across and see if they can do it with their skeleton bodies. So, sorrow is also created.

Also, people like to show they are sorry. Like this Greek tragedy has no sense in it; just make it Greek tragedy, unnecessarily. I mean, one gentleman falls in love: he falls, doesn’t rise, falls in love! And then he doesn’t marry that person; then he is pining. I mean, human life is worth much more, not to pine after one lady. Then in next year, he marries that lady. I mean this is the – you see, everything must have an antithesis also. So, then he marries the same lady, and then he wants to get rid of her somehow. And then he murders her out of frustration. This should be the story because this kind of wasteful habits of human beings leading nowhere.

You cannot get joy from another person: joy is your own property. This comes from your own Spirit. It doesn’t depend on another person. Only a Realized soul can enjoy another Realized soul. Only you understand the value of another person when you are a Realised soul, and another person is also a Realized soul; otherwise, you cannot.


(Unclear question)

Shri Mataji: You see, Gorbachev has solved one problem, a little bit. Because these are two superior powers, you see: super-most, we can call, superpowers. So, the, you need two hands to clap. So, one hand has receded. Now this hand doesn’t know what to do, what to hit, so it has to recede also. So, in a way, the pressure of war he has lessened, and he is going to lessen more.

But I think today the world problem is, if you see internationally, is fundamentalism. Is fundamentalism. And those who try to encourage fundamentalism are really committing sins against humanity, I think. So, fundamentalism I find as the biggest problem, and to answer to this is Sahaja Yoga.

Then our social problems come because we don’t understand the role of a woman and the role of a man; and when we don’t respect women for their great role they are playing, they become something funny.

So, all this understanding comes to you very beautifully when you become a self-realised person.

Another problem is ecological problem, comes out of our own imbalances. Whatever is inside, we manifest outside. You see, there’s so much imbalance in us.

Like in, when we were in India, I never allowed any drinks in My house. I said, “All right, if you want to drink, drink in your house and come to My house.”

But I can’t understand a person who is drunk. God knows, he might just get up and slap Me or do anything! But when we went to London, they, they said we have to offer them. I said, “All right.” I told My husband, “You arrange all that. Do it yourself.” That time – it’s long time back I’m telling you – just to buy crystal tumblers for an ordinary party we had to shell out nine hundred pounds, to begin with. That’s the beginning of the library. And so many were to be added later on. There is one cup for this and a one cup for that – I mean, a one cup is sufficient. And one tumbler for that and this – big, it’s a big science, you know, books after books. I told My husband, “You’d better get it and read it.” Then we hired three, four people. I said, “Baba, you look after these people.” Somebody wants this, somebody wants that, and it’s a very big sort of a social nonsensical wastage.

So, these things we have created. Then, fork and spoon, you start from here, go on like that; and then go on that way. There’s no need to do all that. And I understand, if it was something artistic, all right, some artists are doing. But these days there’s no art: it’s so simple, there’s no art in it. If there’s even one flower they don’t like it – this is too much. No art anywhere, no Limoges, it’s just straightforward march. So, all this creation is all useless rubbish which will form another plastic mountain.

So, this ecological problem has come because we have no sense of balance and discretion. Just go to the shopping: the husband gives the money to the wife to buy some shirts and she comes out with some three, four funny punk dresses which will be discarded after three, four months. We play into the hands of entrepreneurs all the time. Entrepreneurs start some sort of a funny dress: all right, everybody must dress up like that. We have our own intelligence; we have our own personality! We have no individuality left; everybody must dress up the same way.

Now, I should say that we must put some oil in our head at least the day we want to wash our hair, because we’ll all become bald and then these entrepreneurs will sell us the wigs. That’s the trick! So now the fashion is not to put oil – all right, don’t put oil; but at least before washing your hair you can put some oil in your head.

You see, this is what I am saying: the wisdom part is not there and the balance is not there, and because of that we are getting into trouble. All kinds of venturesome things have started, like the Grand Prix. Now, the man must die in the Grand Prix, otherwise it’s not a good one – that’s what they say, exactly.

So, this sensationalization – must have sensations, as if we have become numbed people: absolutely we have no sensitivity to feel any joy or happiness, so we have to be given injections all the time, like electric shocks.

To Me all these things, this looks so shocking. And I’ll tell you tomorrow what happens to you when you get into all these shocks. This is what happens, that you develop blood cancer. Cancer is created by us, by our imbalance, by our insanity.

We have to become sane people. We must respect ourselves. Perhaps we have had no identity so far, that’s why we are like this. But once you are realised, you know your identity and then you enjoy yourself, you respect yourself. And don’t waste your time in useless things, destroying yourself.

Yes? I, I tell you now, you see, the time is coming up much more, so one question will do. Now who will withdraw? …. All right, one lady waiting. Who is that one? This one? …. What is it? …. What?

Seeker:  The Spirit. Does the Spirit discriminate between good and evil, love and hate, or does it just react?

Shri Mataji: Spirit is the source of knowledge, absolute knowledge; is the source of peace, is the source of wisdom, is the source of joy, is the source that enlightens our attention. We have such a big property with us. We should allow it to enlighten us, shouldn’t we?

Now I think we should stop the questions, because there’s one thing: I’m quite good at answering questions. I’ll answer all your questions, but by that I cannot guarantee your Realisation. I can answer most of your questions, but I can’t guarantee your Realisation. Realisation has to work out.

So even if you have not been able to ask some question, forget it. You can bring them tomorrow written down, and I would like to answer them when you come tomorrow. Beforehand if you give, I’ll answer them. But just now I think, tell your mind not to bother you any more about questions. And that’s why I wanted you to ask questions, so that your mind should not suddenly come out like jack-in-the-box and say, “Oh, you didn’t ask this question. How can you have Realisation?” So, the most important thing is to get your Realisation.

So, I think, let us have it now. Again, I cannot force on you. You have to have it in your free will. So please, those who want to have should be there. It will take hardly ten minutes to work it out, and then tomorrow again I’m going to work it out. It’s very simple, very easy. But those who don’t want to have it should not be in the hall. It’s not proper, it’s not civil. So, all those who want to have it, are welcome.

At the very outset, at the very outset there are two conditions I have to tell you.

First one, as I told you before also, you have to forget the past. You have to forgive yourself, and know that you are not guilty at all. All these ideas are given to you that you are sinful, you are guilty, you are this and that because they wanted to cash it. You don’t have to suffer either. So, first of all you should know that you must forgive yourself and must have self-esteem and you should be very pleasantly placed towards yourself, because you are going to enter into the Kingdom of God. This is the first condition.

Now the second condition is that you have to forgive everyone. Some will say it’s very difficult to forgive. But whether you forgive or don’t forgive, you don’t do anything. It’s a myth. But if you don’t forgive then you really play into the hands of the people who want to torture you. So best is to forgive them, forget about them. Forgive and forget. But don’t start counting how many people I have to forgive, what mistakes they have done – nothing of the kind. Just in general say, “I forgive everyone” – just, and it’s done.

Because Divine is the ocean of forgiveness, it’s a very powerful ocean of forgiveness, and you cannot do anything that it cannot forgive. And once you say, “I forgive,” Divine takes over; we don’t have to bother. All right?

These are the two conditions we have; very simple conditions, I think.

We have to take out our shoes to take the help of the Mother Earth. That’s very important.

(Apart: It’s supposed to be… Too much for the throat, talking all the time. All right.)

Now …. (It’s all right.) You have to put both your feet apart from each other, because as I told you there are two powers. A little apart from each other, not touching. And you have to be comfortable. If there’s something tight you can release it a little bit. You need not bend down or stretch yourself too much. Just in a normal way you sit down. Put no strain on your body.

You have to put your left hand towards Me like this, in a comfortable way, on your – you can keep it on your lap, whatever is comfortable. Now this represents that you desire to have your realisation. So, you keep it all the time like this. And with the right hand we’ll nourish our centres. With the right hand we will nourish our centres. And so, you will know also how to raise your Kundalini yourself.

So, two things can be done: your Kundalini will be raised; as well as you will feel, you will know how to feel your centres within yourself and how to correct them. We’ll be working only on the left-hand side.

So now you have to put the left hand towards Me. First, I’ll show you, he will show you what’s to be done, and then you’ll have to close your eyes later on.

First, we’ll put our hand on our heart. In the heart resides the Spirit. Then we’ll have to put our hand on the upper portion of our abdomen, on the left-hand side. This is the centre of your mastery, created by great masters. Then you have to take your right hand in the lower portion of your abdomen on the left-hand side, which is a very important centre which manifests this pure knowledge on your central nervous system. Then you have to raise your hand higher, again on to the left side of your abdomen, on the upper part. Press it hard, on the centre of mastery. Then to your heart again. And then on to the corner between your neck and your shoulder – from the front side, not from the back but from the front side – and turn your head to your right. Now this centre is very important, because this catches on very much, especially in the West, because people all the time feel guilty. And because of this people get spondylitis and angina and all other lethargic organs diseases. So please put your hand here, as far back as possible, and turn your head to your right.

Now, take your right hand and put it on your forehead across and try to put your head down slowly, resting on this hand. And now press it on both the sides, as we do it when we have headache. This is the centre for forgiving others. Then you have to take down your hand, take up your hand onto the back side of your head where the optic lobe is, here at the back. And now turn your head upward as far as possible, resting on your hand. This is the centre where you have to ask for forgiveness from the Divine without feeling guilty – is for your satisfaction. Now, stretch your hand, stretch your palm and put the centre of your palm just on top of the fontanel bone area, which was the soft bone in your childhood. And now bend your head, please, downward as much as possible. Push back your fingers, push back as much as possible. Now there will be a pressure on the scalp. Now move this pressure on the scalp slowly clockwise, seven times. You have to move the scalp, not your hand so much as the scalp, seven times clockwise, slowly. Bend your head.

That’s what we’ll have to do. That’s all, nothing more. That’s the only thing we have to do. Now, you can take out your spectacles if you want because you’re closing your eyes, and might help your eyesight also.

Now, put your left hand towards Me, comfortably. Put your feet apart from each other. And now put your right hand on your heart and close your eyes. Here you have to ask Me a very important question, in your heart. You ask Me a question as you would ask a computer. You can call Me “Shri Mataji” or “Mother”, whatever you like, “Mother, am I the Spirit?” Ask the question, in your heart, not loudly. Three times ask in your heart, not loudly, “Mother, am I the Spirit?” You have to only ask in your heart.

If you are the Spirit, you become your own guide, you become your own master, you become your own guru. So now take down your right hand into the upper portion of your abdomen on the left-hand side. And here you have to ask another question, three times, not loudly, in your heart, “Mother, am I the Spirit?” – ah! “Mother, am I my own master? Mother, am I my own master?” Ask this question three times, “Am I my own master?”

I have told you that I respect your freedom, and the pure knowledge cannot be forced on you. So please take your right hand in the lower portion of your abdomen, and say it six times, asking Me, “Mother, please give me pure knowledge.” I cannot force on you. You have to ask in your free will.

As soon as you ask for the pure knowledge, the Kundalini starts moving upward.

So now we have to nourish the higher centres with our self-confidence. Raise your right hand in the upper portion of your abdomen. Press it hard, on the left-hand side. And here with full confidence you have to say ten times, in your heart, not loudly, “Mother, I am my own master.” Please say this, ten times, “Mother, I am my own master.”

I told you at the very outset that the greatest truth about you is that you are not this body, you are not this mind, you are not these conditionings, emotions, nor this ego, but you are the Spirit. You are the pure Spirit. So now raise your right hand onto your heart and ask here, or say with full confidence, twelve times, “Mother, I am the Spirit.” Just say it without any hesitation. Say it twelve times, please.

For your information you have to know that the divine Power is the source of knowledge, is the ocean of knowledge, is the ocean of love. It is the ocean of peace and ocean of bliss. But above all it is the ocean of forgiveness. So, you cannot commit any mistake which cannot be dissolved by the power of this ocean of forgiveness. So please raise your right hand in the corner of your neck, on your shoulder, push it back as much as possible and turn your head to your right, and with full confidence please say sixteen times, full confidence, in your heart, “Mother, I am not guilty at all.”

All right. As I told you before that you have to forgive everyone, and those who say it is difficult, they must know that it is a myth whether you forgive or don’t forgive. But if you don’t forgive then you play into the wrong hands and get yourself tortured by yourself. So please forgive – in general, everyone, not counting how many people you have to forgive, what you have to forgive – but just say, by raising your hand and putting it on top of your forehead across, putting down your head as much as possible, resting on your hand, please say, with an open heart please say, “Mother, I forgive everyone.” Please say it, please say; otherwise, it is difficult later on for Me: I have to clear out everybody’s Agnya and this takes too much time then. So, best is to say it from your heart. After all, you are not going to miss your Self-realisation for that.

Now take back your right hand on the back side of your head, and put your head on it, resting on it, upward. Here you have to say for your own satisfaction, “Oh Divine, if I have done any mistakes, please forgive me.” But don’t feel guilty, don’t count your mistakes, don’t think about them. In general, you have to say, “Oh Divine, please forgive me if I have done any mistakes or anything wrong, anything against You.”

Now, stretch your palm, stretch your palm and put the centre of your palm on top of the fontanel bone area which was a soft bone in your childhood. Now put down your head properly. And here push back your fingers as far as possible. Please push back. This is very important. And now put a pressure on your scalp, and move your scalp slowly seven times clockwise. Here again I respect your freedom, and I cannot force Self-realisation on you. So here you have to say seven times, bending your head properly and pressing it hard, moving seven times, “Mother, please give me my Self-realisation.” Please ask seven times, please.

[Shri Mataji blows into the microphone.]

Now, take down your hands and put them towards Me, little higher. Now, little bit put your right hand like this. Bend your head, and see for yourself if there is a cool breeze coming out of your head. But don’t touch it – above your head, above your head. And some people get it far. So just try to feel if there’s a cool breeze coming out of your head. Now, don’t start doubting that it’s air-conditioning and all that – air-conditioning cannot come out of your head! So, see for yourself.

Now, put your left hand towards Me. Now again bend your head, and see for yourself if there’s a cool breeze coming out of your head. All right? Now put your right hand again, and again bend your head and see for yourself if there’s a cool breeze coming out of your head. It might be hot also, doesn’t matter. It may be heat coming out first and then the cool breeze. Doesn’t matter if it is hot, doesn’t matter.

Now, put your both the hands towards the sky like this. Bend back, and ask Me a question. Three times, you can ask Me the question, “Mother, is this the cool breeze of the Holy Ghost? Mother, is this the all-pervading Power of divine love? Mother, is this the Paramchaitanya?” Ask any one of these questions three times.

Now put down your hands. Now watch Me without thinking. You can do it. Those who have felt the cool breeze in their hands or out of their fontanel bone area, whether cool or hot, please raise both your hands – both. Let’s see. Just see the en masse, just see – wonderful! So may God bless you all!

I bow to you all, because you have started now your saintly life. And all those who didn’t get also should not get disappointed. On the contrary, if time permits, I would like to meet the people who have felt the cool breeze, and those who haven’t felt can come on this side and the Sahaja Yogis can work on them. Again, tomorrow you must come so you’ll be fixed properly. Some, those who want to meet Me can come and see Me, because there is some time, and in the meanwhile, we can have some music.

Now don’t think about it. If you start thinking, you’ll be lost. Just don’t think about it; it’s beyond thinking.

Thank you very much. Thank you. Beautiful! Oh, My! Thank you. It’s beautiful flowers. If you can push this apart, I’d like to meet people.