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Press Conference. Bucharest (Romania), 17 October 1990.
[BEGINNING MISSING] …and in our body also everything is controlled. Our nose grows to a certain point, eyes grow to a certain point. So it regulates, organizes. It’s the most efficient organization. Sitting down here you can feel the vibrations of any person whether dead or alive. Because it is the causal of the subtle of ether also and we ourselves become like a computer. Whatever you want to know you can know on your fingertips. Even if you have ten children who are realized souls, you tie up their eyes and ask them,
“What’s wrong with this gentleman?” They will say, all of them will say the same finger, this is the finger for it. Now, this finger relates to your this center, on the right hand side. If you ask the gentleman, “Are you suffering from throat trouble?”
He’ll say, “Yes, how do you know?”
So, it’s a universal truth you know, because Spirit is a universal being within us. And so we develop a personality which is universal. This personality does not record any conditioning of a race, or country, or religion, or anything – transcends. Above all, this all-pervading Power is compassion and loves you, and the Spirit that shines in your attention makes you really dynamic.
Every chakra you see here has some specialty. For the second chakra, which we call as Swadisthan, is the chakra for creativity. Many artists who have come to Sahaja Yoga are today world famous. The creativity comes from within. You have the technique but the creativity must touch that wider dimension. Many artists, painters, architects, all of them have reached great heights. One architect in India was suffering from blood cancer and he got cured in Sahaja Yoga. And he was given a special award as a “Star” of architecture for building the best building, constructing the best building. While a professor of agriculture who researched in growing more wheat and he’s called as a “Star of India” for producing the maximum amount of wheat.
There are three doctors in India who have got now MD for research in Sahaja Yoga. They have shown that many diseases can be cured through Sahaja Yoga. There are four hundred doctors in Russia who are now practicing Sahaja Yoga. Four hundred. There are scientists who were, I think, about three hundred scientists who came to My lecture. Some were space scientists and they asked for Realization and they got it. They said: “We have no peace within ourselves.” And then they felt very nice.
There are so many aspects of this new awareness, but I would like to have questions from you. Would be better.
Question: He would like to know what was the exact beginning of this technique, this practice?
Shri Mataji: Oh, it’s very ancient, thousands of years old. We had three kinds of movements in India, about our research. First one was that people wanted to master the matter. So they used all kinds of mantras and all kinds of, you can call, worships, by which they could master the right side, the five elements. And that’s how they got it – science. But that’s very dry and they felt there was no peace and joy in that pursuit. So, they started another movement, to the left hand side, of emotional devotion to God. But in the center there was a very secret group, called as Naths, who tried the method of Self Realization. But it was so accepted that one master will have only one disciple, till the twelfth century. In the twelfth century [ie. 1200s] one saint, one of them, whose brother was his master – his name was Santa Gyaneshwara. He told him that “We have to talk about this knowledge to the whole world and you must allow me to break this tradition.”
So in his book that he wrote a treatise of Gita, Gyaneshwari, about Gita, and another book, two books he wrote he talked about this knowledge. Specially in Gyaneshwari in the sixth chapter. But the priests said that “This is to be closed. We should not read the sixth chapter,” the priests, as usual, because they didn’t know what it was. The priests, as usual, they are all money-oriented, everywhere. So they wouldn’t allow this thing to be published or to be read. So it was kept a secret till the sixth century before Christ.
Another great master came in and who also talked about it. All that was carried on by other people like Kabira, Nanaka, all these people wrote about him. But, you see, it was not explained, so nobody understood. They didn’t really understand. In this century I decided to find out a method by which we can give en masse Realization. I had all this knowledge. I was born with it. But I didn’t want to talk about it because it would be another Bible and people would just read it, and read it and read it. So wanted to put it to a practical, pragmatic happening. And I discovered on the fifth May 1970, the method, to do it. Since then thousands of them have got Realization.
After Realization, this subtle knowledge becomes very easy to understand and to master it. Like one enlightened candle can enlighten many other candles. That’s how it started spreading. It’s a living process of evolution. You cannot pay for it, you cannot put in effort, it just works automatically. It is spontaneous, that’s Sahaj. Sahaj means spontaneous. It cannot have any pretensions because it’s the truth. Because the truth is you are the Spirit, the truth is there is this all-pervading Power.
So you don’t have to pretend, you don’t have to wear a special dress, you don’t have to do anything like that. It’s all inside and it is absolute. So we cannot say when it started, that’s the first idea, but it culminated on the fifth of May 1970. Every discovery, you see, starts improving on itself. Like this is a jet age. And so Kundalini is really acting like a jet. I mean, here we had five-six thousand people. Practically everybody said they felt it. Russia we had sixteen thousand sadhakas, fifteen thousand, ten thousand, it’s all in thousands, it’s all there. Same in India. And we have… Sahaja Yoga is worked out in, I think, fifty-six nations they’ve told to Me, fifty-six nations. Except for Norway, Sweden, what else? Denmark.
You saw the yesterday’s… Norway fellow?…You see, they think we should shout about God, to say about God. You see, we can earn lot of money, that’s all. Two persons, both of them were shouting, as if the God is in their pockets. But all these religions, why are they fighting, if there is one truth? They were not fighting when all these great incarnations came, they didn’t fight anyone – anyone. Because it’s all man-made. As I told yesterday, that all these great incarnations and all these prophets came on this Earth like flowers on one tree of life – tree of life, of spirituality and according to the different times, they did different work. And this time I have to do the Kundalini awakening job. But then the people plucked the flowers and said, ” This is my flower, this is my flower.” And they fought with the dead flowers, with the dead flowers. That’s why these problems. The essence of all the religions is one, whether they talk of formless God or God which is in form. The essence is “seek the eternal” that is through Self Realization and understand the transitory in its limitations and use that with your wisdom. But none of them are seeking the eternal. They are just seeking the money, or the power, like all the false gurus.
[SECTION MISSING FROM DVD] …of the whole drama.
When we are not realized, we are moving on the periphery, like a wheel, and we are disturbed. But a realized soul is on the axis, which is silent. So he has the peace within himself. Whatever may happen outside, he sees it, clearly. A realized soul is in a meditative state of thoughtless awareness. That is, he’s watching everything without thinking. It’s a state of Samadhi, Nirvichara Samadhi. So he doesn’t react, he sees clearly and he’s not afraid to state what is the truth. I think the journalists should become that so that they see the truth and then write it without fear. Then it’s a big responsibility.
Now, then the third thing that happens to him that he develops a power by which he can give Realizations to others. Fourthly, he has collective consciousness, he can cure people, he can counsel people, he can comfort them. And actually his face shines, he loses his aging process. Now I’m sixty-eight years of age Myself and I travel like mad. I’m always about two days in a city and I’m traveling. I’m all right. I keep quite fresh. So you become extremely dynamic, but at the same time you are very compassionate, is a beautiful combination. And such a person, by his nature, his peace, is very magnetic. We have now people from fifty-six nations who come for a seminar in India about from every country, hardly about sixty to seventy. You will see them and you will feel that they are angels. They’re all so one with each other, no problem, no quarreling. Such friendship, such joy. Of course, they tease each other like friends but it’s such a joyful event. So you become a universal being. Now, to your country some Frenchmen came here. Russia, you’ll be amazed, twenty-five Germans went for Realization. I felt so grateful. If you see the Germans, they are so gentle, so beautiful. You won’t believe it. They are so transformed people.
I don’t know how much to describe these saints. They are so loving, so beautiful. They will change the whole world because they work for the benevolence. They help in the agriculture, they help in every sort of field, in education. We have so many beautiful children, very beautiful families. It’s a very different world they establish. I can go on describing them.
You have questions? Now what is the second question?
Question: The people who got Realization, what should they do afterwards – the next step after Realization?
Shri Mataji: You see, in some people it’s just complete, they’re up there, some people. They get just dissolved. I mean they touch their depths very fast, some, very few. And they immediately change places. For example, just now you are facing Me and they’re asking for Realization. But then they come here and face everything. But some people have some physical, mental, emotional, conditional problems. So they have to come to the collective, all of them and have to work it out. We can say some people have a loose connection. So it has to be faced, that’s all. But it is a collective happening. You cannot sit at home and say that I am doing Sahaja Yoga. Like one nail is cut out, then the body doesn’t look after that. So you have in the living organism and that way you enjoy. What is the third?
Question: What does happen to the persons which refused Realization and went out of the hall before Realization?
Shri Mataji: That’s their look out, their freedom. You can’t force them. But, you see, with some people, they are like if they see many people coming to Sahaja Yoga, then they follow. So let us see.
Question: She would like to know what a Sahaja Yogi must do against the negativity in the world.
Shri Mataji: See, Sahaja Yogi is an enlightened person. And when the light comes, the darkness falls away, it just disappears, because it is very powerful. If you are more people, the better.
Question: She would like to know if death is a result of our errors or a law of nature.
Shri Mataji: No, no, it is – anything that is born has to die. We just change our dress as we do every day. That’s how we change this body. But what is it that we learn when we are in this world? We had a driver in My family who was a very patient and regal person. So I tried to think about him and I found out that in his last life he was a king and he was so much worried and he was fed up with his life. And he saw his chariot driver so peaceful, nicely sitting, not worrying about anything. So he prayed that “Oh God, please, make me a driver next life.” So every life you learn and you ask for something so you get it. Supposing somebody is too much in love with someone, like mad absolutely, and cannot marry that person, also may commit suicide. Next life that person marries the same person and learns a lesson, takes a divorce.
Question: What happens with our karma after Realization?
Shri Mataji: Our karma gets sucked here, is the Agnya Chakra. Can you show please? Is this center, above the optic chiasm here. Now this Agnya Chakra controls on both the sides, one side the pituitary, another side the pineal body. So what you see on the yellow one is our ego and what we see on the left side is our conditioning. These are two balloons: ego and superego.
Now, because we have ego we think we have done karmas. Animals don’t think that way. I mean if they have to kill an animal, they kill it and think, “What’s wrong?” All right. We think we’ve done this, we built this, we’ve done this job, that job, this is wrong, this is good, like that. Then we start harming others, troubling others. With ego we do not feel bad, we hurt others. But with superego we feel hurt and we don’t love others but we trouble ourselves. Both things are just the same.
So now, when the Kundalini rises through this center, there is Christ on this center. Now we say that Christ died for our sins. We say. He suffered for our sins. But still the churches teach you must suffer, they teach you must feel guilty, that you are sinners. While Christ has died for us already. He has suffered for us. Are we going to suffer more? You see, just to frighten us and get some money out of us I think. All right. So now what happens when the Kundalini passes through that, these both institutions are sucked in, because of Christ, sucked in.
And that’s how karmas are finished, conditionings are finished, because Christ was enlightened. That’s how then this limbic area that you see in between – is the limbic area – it opens out. And that is a thousand petals. That’s shown outside, but actually is inside. And then it comes out and you feel the Cool Breeze of the Holy Ghost. Because Kundalini is the reflection of the Holy Ghost. But what is Holy Ghost? It’s a mystery.
They have a Father, God the Father, God the Son and no Mother. Holy Ghost is the Primordial Mother. In Sanskrit we call as Adi Shakti, the Primordial Mother. But in Christianity, I don’t know what’s gone wrong with them. They don’t even allow women to be priests. And another limit of Christianity is that in London they’re discussing that they should have homosexuals as priests. While Christ has said, for morality, such a great thing He said, about adultery.
He said “I verily say to you, thou shall not have adulterous eyes.” Outside. Even the eyes should not be adulterous. Means the eyes without any lust or greed, because He is at Agnya, on the optic chiasm, where the two optic nerves cross. That’s why – of the eyes. But how many Christians have those kind of eyes, even the priests? And what sort of Christianity we have when they went and killed all the people in South America and North America? Columbus, thank God, went down that side. If he had come to India, I would not have been here. We all would have been finished.
And even in India, I was born Myself in a Christian family. They came with a gun in one hand and the Bible in another hand. Indian Christians believe that Christ was born in England. Really I tell you. Horrible… the way they made conversions. In India we don’t make loaves, we don’t have system of loaves; you see we make little – things. So they used to put a loaf in the water of the well. Missionaries used to put loaf in the village well. Loaf is what you call – bread. And they would say that “This is the meat of the cow. So now you are all finished. You are no more Indians.” Because it is a sin to take the water which has got the cow’s meat in it. So simple, good people in India used to become Christians, the whole village would become Christians.
Even now, they have very funny ways. I Myself I was in a Christian religion so I know all of them. Even this Madam Theresa, this lady Mother Theresa, you know, she collected money from Indians, got some stables and put people from the streets there, converted them, they would die. That’s all. And that’s how she gets a Peace Prize, because she’s converting, because, you see, the Christian nations, they gave her a Peace Prize because she’s making these dying people Christians. What’s the use? And no one dares to speak about it. There’s nobody can speak about these things. And she’s such a hot-tempered woman. She got her heart attack so many times. It’s the fact, I’m telling you the truth. Even in China they did the same. It’s a terrible thing, I think. How can that be Christianity, how can that be Christ?
Also we had a very funny experience, I must tell them about Russia. My husband is the Secretary General of the International Maritime Organization. He was elected by thirty four nations. And that’s how I went with him first to Russia. So they asked Me, “What you want to see?”
I said, “I would like to see some nice special church, for the architecture.”
So these officers took us to a church for this black order with this Orthodox Church. Because we were VIP so the head priest came with us, showed us round. And then we had to have lunch with them. So he told us that “These days we are fasting, so we cannot eat meat, but we can drink.”
And he drank, drank, drank so much that he forgot that we were sitting there. And the whole body fell on the table. We got a fright you know really. And these officers said, “Now get along, get out, get out, go on.” And they laughed a lot. And they said, “We must tell you the story about the Czar.”
That the Czar wanted to have the some religion in their country, in Russia. So he first asked the Catholics to come in. So the Catholic Pope said that “You can drink as much as you want, anything, but you cannot marry again. You cannot divorce.”
So he said, the Czar said, “That’s not possible. We change our wives all the time. So now, they said, “All right. Send for the Islamic.”
And the Musulman said that “Of course, you can marry many times, but you cannot drink.”
So they said, “We cannot live without vodka.”
So now they sent for the Orthodox Church. They said, “You can marry as many times you like, you can drink as many times as you like, as long as you pay us well.”
And they are supposed to be orthodox. And we felt very, you know, embarrassed, both of us, Me and My husband, because we had respect for the church and respect for the big building, so beautiful. But this is what it is in every religion, even in Hindu religion, same. There is no priesthood in Sahaja Yoga.
Question: He would like to know which is your opinion, Shri Mataji, about the Romanian spirituality. Even that today, comparing it with the tradition and tortures of Catholic Church, we can say that in Romania that it would be much more gentle.
Shri Mataji: Yes, you see, the Catholic Church is conditioning everywhere, is not only in Romania. Conditioned people, too much. It’s a firstly that you are a sinner, that you must confess. All those priests with whom you confess, they go mad. The poor things, they go mad really. And thirdly they talk everything mystery. And maybe the Catholic Church is the only interested in people who are not spiritual but who have money or power. Like Makarios was a great friend of Pope, because… all the people are like the kings and queens and the prime ministers that they will meet that Pope. They respect the worldly powers and the worldly wealth, not the spirituality. And that’s why there is no place for poor people. There’s no place for poor people.
I think the Catholics are the poorest compared to the Protestants, except in Switzerland, because they have banks. And there they themselves are having a affair with the Mafia, Mafia and what else? They were combined with Mafia and Swiss banks. There were lots of things, he can tell you all about it – behind you sitting, from Switzerland. He’ll tell you. Nobody can write against them because then they start writing about, against…. So, human beings must see clearly: What do you want? Why do you want to go to God? For what, for what purpose?
You go for there for peace, for joy, for benevolence. But it’s a big conditioning, very big conditioning. Yesterday you saw how they were talking. I told them that they said, “Christ is going to do everything.” And when Christ is not there, you are talking about Him. But when He was there, they crucified Him. And now I’m living here, I’m before you. Why don’t you take your Self Realization? You have not seen Christ. Because you are born in the Christian religion, that’s why you are Christians, not because you have seen Christ. Supposing you were born in the Islamic. If Turkish had stayed here, then you’d have been all Muslims. Only you can understand Christ or anyone when you have got the light. Otherwise you cannot. And these people are using the name of Christ just to make money, that’s all, simple as that. Try to understand, they have done no good to anyone. I have not seen them doing any good to anyone. Just reading Bible, anybody can do. Reading Bible is like reading a prescription, because who is going to give the medicine? You have to take the medicine, no use reading. Reading is only mental. You have to have the experience.
Question: He would like to ask your opinion about a specific sect, about something very specific to Romania, a special monk which had his place, who lives in a hole, means a house in a rock and who was in every moments, in difficult moments was asked for and he was answering the others, I mean the king, the king, about…
Shri Mataji: Must be. Must be. Must be a realized soul. There were so many, so many like that. Nobody understood them. They were alone. He was a realized soul – vibrations flowing. The vibrations are flowing.
So one has to deal with the problem, understanding that people are simple, innocent and they are seeking and they are being cheated, that’s all. Simple as that. And so many priests are also very good hearted. Extremely simple, some priests are also good. They think they are doing God’s work. They think. They are so simple-hearted. So many nuns and all these things. I mean I don’t know from where this idea of nunnery came also. They brought so many women from India and made them into nuns here. In Rome you only find Indians are nuns and what you call them, the priests. Only Indians. From the poorer countryside. So many.
Question: He said that You, Shri Mataji, have talked very much about God but not about the classical yoga and he would like to know if it is connected with the classical principles of yoga.
Shri Mataji: Hundred percent. You see, the classical Yoga we can call is, first is Hatha Yoga. Ha is the right side, means surya and the chandra, means the sun and the moonlight. So Patanjali is the one who wrote, Patanjali. It’s such a big book. And there are ashta, there are eightfold, eight aspects of Hatha Yoga. He wrote thousands of years back. And in fact if you do the exercises that these people do, is a wee, wee, wee part. And that too has to be done with discrimination. We too use that, when if there is any physical problem on your spinal cord we use that. But ultimately they will talk about Samadhi.
[SECTION MISSING FROM DVD]
…and they kill people. And the world may fill with that drug problem. Oh, or such a violent place. Horrible… then AIDS, all diseases, all kind of diseases. It’s a mad place. People have really become stupid. It’s horrible. Now also, they have got money problem, terrible money problem. They… terrible money problems. The dollar has gone down like that. So, even those who are free countries – nothing to learn from them. So, when you are realized souls and then you get to your freedom, you’ll be the ideal people of God. And it works, in a beautiful way. Beautiful way. You can’t bear, even… means they can’t bear money, they can’t bear freedom, they can’t bear love. Today they love somebody, tomorrow they divorce. So they should get Self Realization. This is more important than any other freedom because in Sahaja Yoga you become totally free. All right? So for Romania it’s a very big thing that you get your Self Realization and then you show to the world how you achieved your freedom.
Question: What can you say about the courses of Ron Hubbard, scientology, dianetics?
Shri Mataji: Less said the better. People vomit blood. From that course people vomit blood. Horrible. Horrible. And there is some guru, I’m told here, who is teaching people Hatha Yoga from the Mooladhara, from the sex. Horrible, don’t go. Oh, God! It will be like Rajneesh nonsense, you know, Rajneesh himself died of AIDS. One test – anybody who asks for money for this knowledge, just don’t believe that. That’s all, simple as that. This knowledge cannot be sold. It is invaluable. This is a very simple thing. Now, you still have some more question?
Question: How can I start this Sahaja Yoga practice?
Shri Mataji: Tonight you’ll be coming to the program, I know and you’ll get your Realization, that’s all. In a collectivity also you must start. And then we have a center here, we have very nice Sahaja Yogis and you just have to rise. That’s all. As they’ll tell you everything about it. Nothing is to be paid. Nothing. But once you come to Sahaja Yoga, you won’t like to leave Me. Not because I.., because I love you. Love is the most precious thing a human being knows. Nothing greater than love. So we’ll understand the power of love. So far we have only used power of hatred. Because you grow, you grow with love. You get nourished, you flower and the fruit of your life. That’s what it is.
Translator: He has gone to a next question.
Shri Mataji: Which is the another?
Question: What advice can you give to those people who feel that they came on earth with a special desire for something from above, a special desire in them? What advice can you give them?
Shri Mataji: Of course, must be. My advice is that now be thankful that you are going to fulfill that desire. You are all seekers of truth. That’s what you must know. And if you find the truth, then you must know that truth has to be truth. But you’ll be surprised to know that truth is love. It’s beautiful. It is poetic.
Question: We have two questions. Maybe the first question is that can you say more about Kundalini Yoga? The second question is how will you “definite” that word “absolute”? What is the definition of the word “absolute”?
Shri Mataji: “Absolute” cannot be defined. That everything negates…. Everything relates…. “Absolute” is something like everything is relative of that. It’s not relative.
Interlocutor: He said that he forgot all the questions he prepared. Is this a solution?
Shri Mataji: Yes, that is.
Question: She said that in Romania today there are many people who do practice Hatha Yoga and other different forms of Yoga. If they become Sahaja Yogis, do they have to continue their practicing of Hatha Yoga?
Shri Mataji: You see, in the light of Sahaja Yoga you see what is good for you, what is bad. Say, for example, you are a right-sided person, then Hatha Yoga is not good for you, will give you heat. But say you are left-sided, then there are “besides” the things, things that you have to do. But then you have to know what to do, I mean it’s not at random.
Shri Mataji: That he will tell you, you yourself will know on your fingertips, yourself will know. But after Sahaja Yoga there is not much need to do all these things to such an extent. You get good health, everything is fine. Why do you go, you don’t want to go… Then you just want to meditate, then you relax. There is no prohibition; there’s no compulsion, nothing. You become your own master.
Question: Why do so many people obey to You? Obviously You have shut on the light. You saw many people, maybe recently, audience, publicly and You have the feeling of people. Right?
Shri Mataji: Of course.
Question: I mean, is there a difference between these people? This audience is like… You find that Romanian people, this Romanian audience, and feel a difference between the audience last night compared to the audience in Russia, or in America, or in Germany, or in England? Did you feel them? I mean … their reactions?
Shri Mataji: I felt that Russians are not so much conditioned by religion, and here people have more conditioning by religion. And that’s something I felt yesterday. But then when this fellow came, thank God he came.
Shri Mataji: Yes, who knows? They came, it was nice. Because probably if they came, I could talk of Christianity, otherwise I could not have talked. So it wasn’t a wrong thing. It was good.
Interlocutor: … good for audience.
Shri Mataji: Yes. You see because they could see the difference also. The audience could see the difference and I could talk about Christianity. But I did feel they are conditioned by Christianity, did feel. So that’s how I had to talk. And otherwise they just opened, you see, a new subject, which was very important. So I’m thanking to them. Though they were mad, but doesn’t matter.
I mean they came from somewhere, out of the blue, from Norway, and just started saying, “God, this, that…” So everybody couldn’t understand, “What is this?” They could see the Christianity… So it was better. You see, Christians are also very fundamentalist, I tell you. Very big fundamentalists. They think they are the only chosen ones and because they think like that they do not seek. And the fundamentalism is more intellectual. It’s not like Islamic where they fight, you see.
So the fighting Musulmans are exposed. Everybody’s called fundamentalist. But Christians it’s not easy to point them. For example, in England, there’s only one religion, is Church of England, is the only religion, Church of England. See? It’s fundamentalism. Fundamentalism means that you place the blinkers and you don’t see anything else, is fanatic. Is ego-oriented. By which you do not mature. Just you don’t mature.
Question: She would like to know if this happening with the two Norwegians boys is something very rare to you, Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: Oh no, very common. They could be anyone. They need not be these Norwegians, they could be anyone. Very common. I’m quite used to them.
Question: Also if you felt that they were sincere in their madness or there were was something behind them?
Shri Mataji: No, no, no. They must have been paid by someone, they might be missionaries or they could be possessed. You see, all fundamentalists are possessed people. They are all possessed with the idea that “We are the best.” It’s a possession. Otherwise why should they do? Actually they should ask for their Realization, normally, isn’t it? For their benevolence. But they are possessed. What can you do?
Question: He wants your personal advice. He is practicing Hatha Yoga and he is advised by someone else. He would like to know if to continue this kind of relations.
Shri Mataji: You better take to Sahaja Yoga first. You’ll find there’s lot of heat on your right side. All right? And this kind of Hatha Yoga makes you very dry also. They drain you of emotion. So better fall in love with somebody, that’s very important. Are you married? Is he married or not? Is he married or not, what is he saying? You are happy with your wife, or you get angry with her?
Shri Mataji: Then it’s all right. Then it’s quite a balanced life, but still you try Sahaja Yoga. You will know what’s wrong where, all right?
Question: He would like to have a, I can’t say, something only special with You, some yoga session only with You. He would like to make a demonstration of Hatha Yoga.
Shri Mataji: No, no, no, …. I can’t bear… I can’t bear… all the bones come out, all the bones come out, I am saying, bones, bones come out. There’s no need to do all that. Why waste time? Very bad. This gentleman is asking….
Question: What makes exactly collective consciousness, collective awareness? And what is the connection with the collective unconsciousness, psychologically?
Shri Mataji: Jung has talked. See, the collective unconscious becomes conscious. That becomes conscious. That comes into our conscious mind. That’s it. Jung has talked of it. But Jung, you see, got his Realization, he talked about it and I addressed the Jungian Society in New York. So I’ve not read this, I’ve not read him much. So I just opened the book, like this and there was a diagram that he had made of a human being. What he had done, that he said that the collective unconscious is at the bottom, then the subconscious, then the collective subconscious, then the subconscious, then the conscious mind and then the other things like that. But like – horizontal layers. This was the mistake, because your subconscious mind is placed on the periphery. Subconscious is on the left. Subconscious is on the left and then the collective subconscious. Everything that has gone out of the circulation of evolution is in the collective subconscious.
Now, on the right side is the futuristic side. So is the supraconscious, is the collective supraconscious. So all the ambitious people are in supraconscious. Now the superconsciousness [MISSING RECORDING] …and the collective unconscious is the Kundalini. Now, when She rises, She connects you into the superconsciousness. So you become conscious of the collective consciousness.
But the mistake was that it is not horizontal. Because when you say it is horizontal, then people go to subconscious mind, then through collective subconscious, then through the collective unconscious, means the movement is descendant. But our Creator is a great organizer. Now, supposing you have to go to the aeroplane and if you have to pass through all the luggage and all everything and then go to the airport, it’s going to be difficult. So He has kept both these things vertical and the central path is there, is clear – is called Brahmanadi, the central path. It is like a spiral. It’s like a spiral and the innermost part of the spiral is the Brahmanadi. As I showed you here, you see, those…
So even if there is a little aperture here, few hair like strings of the energy can pass through that and they can break through. Once they break through then the all-pervading Power starts coming on our sympathetic nervous system like this. So the chakras open more, then the strings pass. But you get little light to begin with and in that light you see how it works. That’s how it works. And ultimately you get full enlightenment. All right. Still more, one more. All right. Now this is the last then. We have to go, you have to have your lunch over here.
Question: He asks if You, Shri Mataji, are the only founder of Sahaja Yoga?
Shri Mataji: No, I’m not. I told you, it started long time back. Now, I am, you can say, that I made it an en masse Realization, en masse.
Question: Only You, Shri Mataji?
Shri Mataji: Yes, so far. I mean, you can also, you can take it from Me also.
Question: And the rest… and the other part of the question was: “Who will come after You here?”
Shri Mataji: We should not be futuristic. We shouldn’t worry about that part, we should be in the present. All right? I don’t want to divert your attention to something else. Because present is the thing. Past is finished and future doesn’t exist. So we have to concentrate on the present. Only in the present you grow. So we have to establish the present within. All right? Thank you very much, thank you. Please have your tea.
Further partial conversations related to Shri Mataji giving advice and working on individuals.
[Note by John Noyce:
The reference to ‘Twelfth century’ is to the 1200s. This is traditional Indian usage.
The Western equivalent is Thirteenth century.
Gyaneshwara’s dates are usually given as c.1275-1296.]
H.H. Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi