Conversation at Mr Ng’s house, Petaling Jaya, Malaysia, 1990-11-03
Shri Mataji: … Sahaja Yoga, something wrong and some very [unclear] stuff going on. And then, suddenly, he came to Sahaja Yoga. And the poor man, he suffered so much. But still, you know, what happened that only he came to Sahaja Yoga, for about a year or so; I think or less than a year.
He was also in Greece [unsure] for months, and he is a big official in the government, very big official. You see, they [disciples of Mahesh Yogi] always take people who are in position, who are professionals, something like that. Here people always [unclear]. They only bother about Sahaja Yoga.
So, what they do – you see, ultimately the other day, when I had gone to Delhi, morning time, he was sitting in the car and he was wheeling three times. And he has just [unclear] of the car and he had just turned around. It went like that. [Shri Mataji is doing three turns with finger] He was inside and he was quite all right he had almost nothing. The car was completely broken. And he got a sort of insurance for that and he got insurance. So, you can imagine how terrible they are. Still, they follow him. And this accident took place and he was so lucky! He said, “Mother how I escaped?” I said, “You are a Sahaja Yogi. Whatever they may try nothing can happen”. And he got back a new car now because of the insurance. But still, I mean, they are like that, very troublesome.
Sahaja Yogi: Mataji [unclear] you want me to write down his name [unclear].
Shri Mataji: No, no, no, no, no. It is not like that. You go out [In Hindi: and write down on the earth the name ‘Mahesh Yogi’]
Sahaja Yogi: Yes, I did.
Shri Mataji: Acha. [In Hindi: and you give bandhans seven times with hand saying, “Mataji, Mataji, Mataji” and then hold in your right hand, hold the left slipper. Use only this for the purpose. Don’t use that slipper for anything else. Rubber slippers are good and hit it 21 times, then leave the slipper. With the other slipper, there are two slippers.
Sahaja Yogi: Yes, yes.
Shri Mataji: Hit with the left slipper. Next, write your name on the ground and give a bandhan seven times and take the right slipper in the right hand and hit it seven times.]
Sahaja Yogi: With this one?
Shri Mataji: With this one.
Now don’t use these slippers for wearing. Use these slippers again and again for this purpose. Rubber slippers are good. So that the effect goes. The effect stays for a long time. It is terrible stuff.]
It’s a terrible stuff.
Sahaja Yogi: Self-adjusting, [Hindi].
Shri Mataji: [In Hindi: The camera is good?]
Sahaja Yogi: It is J BC camera.
Shri Mataji: It’s here.
Sahaja Yogi: Give it to me.
Shri Mataji: This you have to take it inside, I think.
You all have got these? Those who do not have like this? Take one of these. We are going to leave all for you. You have? There are three, four. One for you.
Angie, you want one? One for you. All right, we are leaving some with you. In case the new people come in, you can give them. They have to settle down, first of all. They have to settle down then only you should give.
Hello. Do you have the badge? No? All right, come on. Can you move this, please?
Now. So, this you can give to Angie.
Sahaja Yogi: [In Hindi] We can give to the kids.
Shri Mataji: [In Hindi] We have given the kids. Give these to Angie.
You see when I was travelling from Bombay to Taipei and all that, I got presents for you. Now all the men, one by one. Take your presents. I hope you will like them. All the men.
Sahaja Yogi: Come, come.
Shri Mataji: The ladies. [Hindi] You wait. I will give a sari.
Sahaja Yogi: You wait.
Shri Mataji: I will give a sari.
Sahaja Yogi: You got it? Did you get it?
Shri Mataji: In Hindi. There are two children. Very small present. It is a token of love. You can put flowers.
Sahaja Yogi: You needed sixteen? Exactly 16 are there.
Shri Mataji: That’s all. Finished. You can give yours. I already gave you one present. Show me the present I gave you.
Sahaja Yogi: Wah, wah, clapping. [All Sahaja Yogis clapping].
There it is becoming a very difficult country. You can’t take out anything. You can’t take out gold. You can’t take out silver. [Unclear] smuggled out. [Shri Mataji laughing.] Oh my God! Where am I going to take this? This is too much. What are you doing? This is too much. What are you doing? This is too much. Appreciation is too big. [Laughing] [unclear] We did not give her anything. [In Hindi] Give from here for both the children.
Sahaja Yogi: [In Hindi] Which one should I give?
Shri Mataji: [In Hindi.] Give from yours. Give it to your sister. What is this?
Sahaja Yogi: [In Hindi] Any child who did not get a gift? Is there anyone who did not get the gift except you of course? Did she get the gift? She got it. Everybody except the saree everyone got it.
Shri Mataji: She got it? So beautiful!
Sahaja Yogi: [Unclear]. Oh, Oooh. Very good. [Applause].
Shri Mataji: [Unclear] For me, I am your Mother. Laughing. So clever! [All the Sahaja Yogis are laughing]. So many presents! As it is, they have bought some saris to be presented from India.
Sahaja Yogis: Wow, woah! [Applause].
Shri Mataji: This is beautiful. It is beautiful. This is pewter? Ah, I was telling you that I had to buy some pewter when I was coming here. Oh. Beautiful. Nothing can be better than this I tell you really. Beautiful. I just desired you to know that I should buy pewter. I just desired that I should buy some pewter because you see your pewter is very well known. You should not have spent so much money. You could have just given me one plate, it would have been alright. The plate is quite complete. [Laughing]
Sahaja Yogi: He chooses his words very cleverly.
Shri Mataji: [In Hindi] He is a very intelligent man. Very sweet. Allright.
Some more gifts given.]
Sahaja Yogi: [unclear] Gupta.
Sahaja Yogi: I don’t think I deserve it after those harsh words, but still thank you very much. It means you have excused me for what I said. Thank you very much.
Shri Mataji: You see what I am saying, “Be careful. I must tell you to be careful. You must be careful”. People when they come they see you, how far otherwise I bought a house in London about eight years back and for six years, they were all staying in that house, everything free, they never paid a single pie, I didn’t know what to say to them, you see. They were just staying there nicely. I was paying for electricity, gas, everything, Six were on my head. This is what it is so one has to be careful. You should try to see because many people come to Sahaja Yoga just to exploit you, so be careful. You should say that if you are a real Sahaja Yogi, ‘all right’. But if you are not they should not. Otherwise, they will exploit you completely I tell you. We have had so much exploitation. So much. So much, so far that you can’t imagine. Of course, Malay people have self-respect otherwise you find, American’s especially they are very exploiting. So poor Angie is here alone. They will all come and occupy all his rooms and throw him out. [Everybody is laughing].
Sahaja Yogi: Shri Mataji, when we come next time he should not be alone. He deserves it now. [Laughter and applause]
Sahaja Yogi: … [Unclear]
Sahaja Yogi: No comments.
Shri Mataji: No comments, the brain fails.
Sahaja Yogi: He can’t say no. He doesn’t say yes, and he doesn’t say no.
Shri Mataji: So, I am very happy and to meet you and we had a very good programme I must say. The people were young and nice and open and seeking and I am sure it will work out. See for Sahaja Yoga we need people who are seeking deeply. We cannot have every person as a Sahaja Yogi. See you can give Realisation’ to many but how many will become Sahaja Yogis is the point. And that you will understand many will try to get to it and work it out properly because unless and until you touch your depth you cannot enjoy Sahaja Yoga. You have to touch your depth then you enjoy everything, but if you do not touch the depth then you are still hanging in the air and still you can be thrown away. So best is to develop your depth in your own houses but it is a collective habit you see. Like the main, if it is now taken out it doesn’t glow and in the same way, you have to be collective.
If you are not collective it doesn’t work out. All of you have to be very, very collective and then all these badass, everything will run away, but the place is full of negativity. Full of negativity. So much so that I had to tell yesterday to all the people. Normally, I never say that, and it is so. You have to work it out. I am sure once they see the light, they all will run away. But I must thank Ng because single-handed he has handled so many people and he has brought so many people. I must congratulate you on this and no words can express my feelings for him.
Sahaja Yogi: Give him a big hand. Clapping.
Shri Mataji: This time if anyone wants to come to India you are welcome and even if you have less money, we can make a concession there. There you can come with, your ticket and you can, you need not pay the whole amount. You can pay about 1000 rupees I think. About 1000 rupees is the amount you can pay for the food there, but you see the foreigners are paying such an amount and because of their help I have been able to build up so many things and acquired so much of land and their food and everything is separate from that of Indians. But you can come as part of India only and so we can manage. Make it very cheap, so you have lesser. Did you find out about the ship? Is the ship going?
Sahaja Yogi: I forgot to ask. I have to ask.
Shri Mataji: But even if you go by ship it goes up to Madras. It is better to take…
Sahaja Yogi: I think we can manage [unclear]. The airfare is not very much.
Shri Mataji: Then it is all right.
Sahaja Yogi: From Bombay to Bangkok. It is not expensive. It is almost very close to the airfare.
Shri Mataji: Really? The ships are going?
Sahaja Yogi: Yes. The ships are going.
Shri Mataji: [Hindi] Then it is okay, which corporation?
Sahaja Yogi: This is going from Singapore and Penang and to Madras and back.
Shri Mataji: I don’t know. My husband was the Chairman of the shipping corporation of India. I also once came by that ship.
Sahaja Yogi: That was once earlier from Madras.
Shri Mataji: Yeah. Now it is another ship, the state of Madras. The airfare is not much, you all can come … all right. [In Hindi] They can stay in the Indian camp.
Sahaja Yogi: Sure. They can come and stay with me if they like.
Shri Mataji: in Hindi] There are separate Indian camps there. It is 1000 rupees but if they want to eat non-veg then it is more.
Sahaja Yogi: That is about 1200 rupees.
Shri Mataji: If you want to have nonveg food, it is 1200 and for vegetarian food 850.
Shri Mataji: It is not much for 1000 rupees. So, those who want to come please let us know beforehand, and come along, at least for Ganapathy pule you can come. Because for the whole tour it is much more. This is only for Ganapathy pule we are making a small thing for people who are nearby, so for the whole tour, it is quite expensive. It is like 850 pounds, I think, it is quite expensive. Because it is very expensive for the whole month. We live in the villages and far-off places. We have to go by bus, it is so expensive by road. Now the petrol is so expensive so we have increased 50 pounds more. Otherwise, it was 800. Some money is also saved now. I have taken 3 years. Before that, it was managed by other people. I don’t know what they did with the money. Now also lots of money has been saved. We can do lots of things there. But in Sahaja Yoga, one has to be genuine. See if you are genuine then you get genuine. You should not be a hypocrite. When you are hypocritical you never get any advantage out of Sahaja Yoga. So, this is my request. Try Sahaja Yoga at home, meditative and also in the collective. You have to be in the collective. No question. All right.
May God bless you. Thank you very much for these presents.
Sahaja Yogi: [unclear] presents for the Australians.
Shri Mataji: All right [unclear]. Frank is a great leader of Perth. [Applause]
Sahaja Yogi: This is very embarrassing. [unclear] Thank you very much. [Applause]
Shri Mataji: They have been very sweet. They offered themselves. I didn’t ask them, they offered themselves. [Applause]
Sahaja Yogi: They have been of great help.
Shri Mataji: Yeah. Great help.
Sahaja Yogi: Be careful about the camera. Ah, I told you. [Applause]
Shri Mataji: Thank you for everything. So, hope we are in small number. We are not in any way less than anybody else because we have got powers. Nobody has powers as we have. We know everything so one has to just believe in oneself and everything will work out. I am sure everything will work out. Gradually this Malaysia, we will have lots and lots of who are Sahaja Yogis, lots and I am sure after some time Muslims will also come. Today we gave realisation to three, four Muslims there.
Sahaja Yogi: Seven Muslims came, Shri Mataji. Seven Muslims,3 Sardars and 6 Punjabis.
Shri Mataji: And those South Indian girls.
Sahaja Yogi: Yes, three South Indian girls. And another gentleman, nobody knows where he came from. Nobody knows. I have got with Mother’s permission; I have got a very interesting thing to tell all of you because you are all my brothers and sisters. In India, I had only one day before Shri Mataji got her command to come with her so I could take my visa for Malaysia. I thought I could take Singapore and Malaysia on Friday. And Friday all of you know what happened. We were just, we did not know whether Friday came or not. Suddenly last evening I realised I can’t go to Singapore because I don’t have a Visa and they are very, very strict people. And Singapore people and the communist countries they don’t allow you to stay for one hour if you don’t have the Visa, so I came and requested to Mother, Shri Mataji, I am sorry…
Shri Mataji: This is Communist?
Sahaja Yogi: No. This is very, very, I don’t want to say Shri Mataji but it’s almost a dictatorship.
So I was very embarrassed the whole night and Frank was giving me a lot of consolation. [People laughing] No, no, do this and ultimately I took a, you know, request Shri Mataji.” Sorry, I won’t be able to go.” SHE said, “what is the problem”. I said, “I cannot get Visa”. SHE said, “Alright, let them go”. In the morning Shri Mataji said, “why don’t you try”. I said, “and you know today is Saturday and Sunday they don’t open. They are very strict people.”
“Why don’t you try”. I said, “All right Shri Mataji, I will go, and as I bowed you know in HER feet and wanted to go, SHE said, “good luck”. Immediately I told them, “I got my Visa already.” And when he went to Mr [unclear] house and called, he said, “you don’t know today is Saturday and we don’t open but we do not talk to people.” I said, “I know that, but even knowing that, you must listen to my problem”. “I will lose my job for the lie, you don’t understand the problems”. “I am in such a service you will never understand what service it is”. They thought maybe I was some ICS officer or this or that. “So, okay why don’t you come over at 11 O’clock”. And from there we rushed and myself photographed and then exactly at 11 o clock we were there but I don’t know to whom I talked. I was so excited I did not ask the name of the person. The gatekeeper won’t allow us unless you tell and he dialled the councillor and everybody said, “No, no we didn’t talk to him”. And he said, “OK, wait, and at 11.20 we got a call from inside and somebody asking, “send these two people inside” and not only that, he opened the automatic gate for us and asked us to park the car by the side of the car of the councillor. And we went in and this guy was in his chappals, shorts and T-shirt. And he looked at us and he said, “you need a visa?”. I said, “sorry sir, yes”. “Sorry, we woke you up at this hour in the night from your residence”. He said it was “Ok”. What documents do you have”? I said, “this is my ticket and my passport”. He saw the passport. There are about 52 stamps to Singapore in the last 4 years. He said, “this is okay, I will give you the Visa.” And this is not the only thing. He did not ask for the photographs and the beautiful thing, I put the date on the form as 3rd November and he was giving me the Visa on the date of 2nd November and I don’t know how I pronounced it, shall I put the date as 3rd November. He said, “No, no because I have given you a visa for 2 nd November”. The next problem was the ticket because we had cancelled all the flights. My flights. I said I will go on Tuesday morning. So I was dazed as to what to do now. We went to a Travel Agency the girl said, “you get a flight for 9.30”.I said, “that is not possible” .I talked to SIA. They said “no, there is no flight. They said, “no, no, you are in Malaysian Airlines and still open”. And re-confirmed my booking along with Shri Mataji and another friend from Australia. It was a miracle. We are all going at 9.30 morning, tomorrow.
Sahaja Yogi: [Unclear]. waiting list and then Shyam gets a ticket and she checks and she takes the list and she says she is on the waiting list before George. [People laughing] And when we reached the residence, we did not know where Shri Mataji is. We called back here and she left at 11.30. And Mr [unclear] goes out and there was no space for parking. Just on the corner, I don’t know why people did not see that … beautiful spot where he parked. Ah, they are there, they are shopping and we just reached there. It was such a beautiful. Who was with me? Mr [unclear]. Yeah.
Shri Mataji: He got it there inside?
Sahaja Yogi: Shri Mataji, just in the corner and it was lying just there for 5 minutes nobody was parking there. He parked his car there and he said, “I don’t know why people did not see so I just put my car there in the corner.”
Shri Mataji: Parking is a big…Sahaja Yoga is like that. So many miracles. I must tell you a story. My husband is very fond of good tea and a particular type. It is called prestige tea today from a shop and we used to get it from an Indian shop ..in London. So fond of good tea any other he won’t take. So, for last, I mean, for one week I was telling him must get the tea, tea. Tea is over, tea is over. He said, alright we will get it. Don’t you worry I will get it? I Said otherwise I will arrange it. He said no, no I will get it. And it was Saturday and I told him again, “will you send the driver to get the tea”. He said, “I will” and again he forgot. He was very busy. So, there was a reception in his office, so I went down there and I told him, “did you get your tea?” He said, “no, no I forgot”. I said,” be prepared to take any tea we have in the house”. But when he came down I told the driver, “Take him around the tea centre.” He said, “what, it is 9 O’clock, you want to get tea there.” “Let’s go, what is the harm in trying, it is a little ahead”. Little angry he said, “how can you go now?” So, we went and we stopped the car and we saw all lights were open. Of course, in London, most of the lights are open all the time but the doors were open and people were moving about, so I told Mr Srivastav,” Please go and see what is happening there”. He went in there and he said,” come along we are waiting for you, you are so late, we have been waiting for you”. I was just looking like that and he came back with five big tins of tea. So, I said,” what happened?” He said, “They had a sort of function today and they had invited me and I had completely forgotten about it. I had forgotten about the function.
Poor children were sleeping and both of them brought. All right [unclear].
So, I said, “What happened?” He said, “you see, they had invited me for today’s function, they were all waiting for me here and I was late, and they have given me as present these five tins of tea”. How things work out. [laughing] I mean on a Saturday evening they were still there. So amazed at it. So, you see this Param Chaitanya works it out beyond our mind. Beyond our understanding, it all works out and if it doesn’t work out you give it up. That means it is not working. Something doesn’t work out just give it up. That is how it is.
I am sorry you are late. I was asking for you when I reached here. Such doll-like children you have. I think for children you must get some vibrated sugar. You have? Both children have got liver. And it is better because of the heat also, too much sun. One should not give dairy products as far as possible, and give them sugar, vibrated water. That is good for them and sugarcane also I saw. Fruits are very good, any juices with sugar are good but try cheese or anything dairy products that are not good. Even if you have [unclear] put it in the fridge in the night and take it out and then give it to the children. Because it is so hot here that you can get this liver problem very badly. That is what I find. People are extremely thin, very thin
[Unclear] was asking today, “I am 23 so thin and my parents are saying nobody is going to marry you. You are very thin”. [Everyone laughing] You see, Indians are frightened of thin people. They think there must be something wrong. Why is he so thin?
Sahaja Yogi: Shri Mataji, I promised this pendant. These are the pendants for those children.
Shri Mataji: Such nice works.
Sahaja Yogi: Say thank you.
Shri Mataji: I think that is very big for you. A smaller one is better. All right. That is very big for you. This one is very clear. [Shri Mataji talking to the child] No? We got limited things. Have you got the batches? You have?
Sahaja Yogi: [In Hindi]. There are 4 or 5 more.
Shri Mataji: [Unclear]
Give it to them.
Sahaja Yogi: These are vibrated ones.
Shri Mataji: When you come to India you must wear this. Let us know when you are arriving, we will arrange for your transport from there. All right.
Sahaja Yogi: You take this downstairs. These are vibrated ones. This paper is the bill. Bring the bill back, please. All can go now.
Shri Mataji: Leave them here. You can get it later on. All right. Thank you very much for the nice gift. Beautiful. And I will have a nice tea and especially my husband will enjoy it. Beautiful.
May God bless you. All right.
Sahaja Yogi: Maha Mantra recited.
Jai Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: That’s nice. The kundalini is steady. As long as the Kundalini is steady you are alright. This Wobbliness or this sort of a, what you call, shaking, then there is something wrong. Now, look at this man yesterday. See this fellow Sardarji. How he was looking. He drinks and Sardars are not allowed to drink. That is why he was having all trembling [pointing at the stomach] … They are not supposed to drink at all. Sardarji is not… his hands were shaking. We tried but not to that extent. Couldn’t cure him completely. He might develop something like blood cancer afterwards. Before the photographs also starts shaking. Before it was much worse. He has to worry for himself.
May God bless you. Enjoy yourself.
[In Hindi] We Indians have a lot of ‘luggage’. They follow various gurus from all over the world and their works and beliefs and they come and go and half the people run away. These beliefs in the gurus have made them very ritualistic. Here they are very ritualistic people. So, what happens, they go to the rituals. Ritual makes them [unclear].
You have to tell them bye-bye. You have to give up the rituals and everything and take to this. Otherwise, Sahaja Yoga is not for them. The Brahmins are just exploiting them, you know. Brahmins are the ones who are just deceiving them. It is too ritualistic here. Too much. You have to tell them gradually. This is what we have to give up: all our gurus, anything, we have to beat them with shoes and also, we have to see that they do not have this ritual done by Brahmins. We can do our rituals on Mataji’s Puja and all that. We shouldn’t do these rituals. It can be very dangerous. When you people come you bring the pillows if possible, 10 kilos.
Sahaja Yogi: [Unclear].
Shri Mataji: Sixteen. That is a better number. That is true.
Sahaja Yogi: I mean if we come[unclear]by our company.
Shri Mataji: You should send the van. You can send it to my daughter. I will write down her address. Gupta knows. I am very bad at these things. You have to inform, you see. You have to inform this lady [unclear]. What did she say?
Sahaja Yogi: She was [unclear].
Shri Mataji: She was there. Martin. Yes. She was there. Mary Martin.
Sahaja Yogi: No Madam, [unclear]. Kay’s husband.
Shri Mataji: Kay’s husband was there? He is the right [unclear].
Sahaja Yogi: Finally, the visa will come up by Tuesday by courier.
Shri Mataji: I don’t know, you ask him. He will tell exactly what is the program. I have told…Yes. And I will also write it down.
Sahaja Yogi: I think it is the name of the company, lawyer.
Shri Mataji: Company lawyer. [Hindi] Phone number of Kalpana. Kalpana’s address [Hindi]
Sahaja Yogi: [In Hindi] Shri Mataji, You gave Realisation to two ladies in the shop This is for a relative of them.