Public Program Day 2, Evening

Natura Artis Magistra, Amsterdam (Holland)


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Public Program, Second Evening, The Koningszaal, Artis, Amsterdam, 2nd August 1991

I bow to all the seekers of truth.

Yesterday I told you that truth cannot be felt at human awareness, and that the truth is that you are the pure Spirit. In the evolutionary process you have become a human being, but there is a little growth needed in your awareness where you become the Spirit. To start that growth you have to awaken a power within you which we call the Kundalini. Somebody should show it. (On the chart) Now this residual power is the reflection of the Holy Ghost.

In the Christian religion it’s a mystery, the Holy Ghost is a mystery. Maybe because Christ came on this earth and he was here only for eight years in Israel, in that place where he was born; and then he had to go to India for twenty years. And he came back, and three and a half years only he got before people crucified Him. And as I told you, three and a half years is nothing to explain to people, because it took me four years in London to give realisation to seven hippies. It’s a headache I tell you! (Laughter) They were so argumentative and so ignorant and arrogant; I had to use all my patience and love to bring them round. So I must really give credit to Christ and the people around him who at least listened to him even these three and a half years.

But this growth of spirituality within you can only start once it has been sprouted; the seed has been sprouted; and that is what we call “Self Realisation”. To begin with you can feel the cool breeze of the Holy Ghost out of your fontanel bone area as you felt yesterday; and also you can feel this all-pervading power of divine love. But then you have to have patience with yourself because there are obstructions where this power goes and cleanses your chakras, your centres. It is a living process, and it is not an economic affair, I should say. So it works out spontaneously; for which you cannot pay.

But people who make money… you pay them money, you get involved – and then you think “Let us go through it because we have paid.” Like you go to see some show, you pay for it and though it is horrid you go through it somehow. But in Sahaja Yoga because you have not paid, you take it for granted and do not understand the value of self realisation.

Moreover you are absolutely free to leave Sahaja Yoga or to enter in; there is no compulsion of any kind. But those who are of that spiritual intelligence understand, and they grow into Sahaja Yoga. So the first thing you must know is that you cannot pay for your awareness to be improved. You cannot pay for your realisation. You can pay for this hall alright, but not for your self realisation, or for any knowledge which is pure.

So we must first of all understand that, even if you get realisation, unless and until you grow to the full extent you will be half-baked Sahaja Yogis. And a Sahaja Yogi has to have a complete understanding about himself, as to how his growth is taking place inside and about everything that is outside; the Sahaj Yogis, the people, the country, the ecology; everything he has to be aware of. And this you do not have to pay for, nor do you have to put in much effort.

Once you get your self realisation you get into meditation. You don’t have to do it. You get into the meditative mood. So you just have to practice how to get into the meditative mood of thoughtless awareness. You are aware, but you are thoughtless. You can imagine, if this earth was always bombarded as the thoughts bombard us, how could this tree grow? So you have to achieve a state of thoughtless awareness which is very easy for you, but you have to give some time. In the morning time about five minutes or in the evening about fifteen minutes. Also we have collective programmes which you must attend. As we do not take money we don’t have elaborate palaces for you. We have very humble places and we have to humble down. Once you are established then you just seek the comfort of your Spirit and nothing else.

I have already told you that, believe me, you are all capable of getting your self realisation, and that there is divinity within you – all of you. There is innocence within you which is not lost. Innocence cannot perish. It is eternal. The only thing, like clouds, it is covered by our wrong behaviour. So you should not believe anyone who says that you are a sinner or anything like that. It is not so. As I said, you don’t have to suffer. It’s a wrong idea. Why should any father make his son suffer? And when Christ himself has suffered, why should you suffer? Can you suffer more than him? And he never suffered because he was an incarnation. They don’t suffer. It’s a drama for them. And they play it well. (Laughter)

So with that happy mood we have to know about ourselves a little bit. I’ll tell you where we go wrong, but on one promise, that you are not going to feel guilty about it. Howsoever you may go wrong; there is a string which pulls you back to normalcy. It is the string of your seeking and it’s a string of love. So you should not become desperate by any chance. And whatever I am telling you, you can just listen to it but you should not imply it to yourself at all. And by no means condemn yourself.

So here we see now, in this drawing1 is the complete mechanism that works out our self realisation. In the medical terminology we know there is an autonomous nervous system. So it has got two sympathetic nervous systems, left and right and the central one which we call the parasympathetic. In Sahaja Yoga we know that these two systems, left and right, work for two different things. The left and the right… For example, if you are running you can increase the beat of your heart. So in an emergency you can use either the left or the right; but when you stop running the central autonomous nervous system, called the parasympathetic, acts and brings it to normal.

So now we have three systems working within us; and in our evolutionary process whatever we have achieved is expressed in our central nervous system. So the left side is, as I told you yesterday, the power of desire, and the right side is the power of action. So the left side looks after our emotional side, and the right side looks after our physical and mental side. So in the brain we have got the left side… because it crosses over… so the left side, acting for the right side; and the right side acting for the left side. So now when we act on our left side you see a balloon-like structure develops in the head which is the conditioning, and when we act on the right side then another balloon develops which is the ego. Both of them meet together and overlap each other. That’s how we become a closed personality.

Now we have to understand how we develop these two things, like conditioning and the ego. If we are futuristic we move to the right side. If we think too much, we plan too much, we move to the right side. We start using our conscious mind. With that, if you have also physical exercises like jogging or another kind of ‘Hatha Yoga’ so called, then you go more to the right side. When you go more to the right side you start using your conscious mind much more than you should use. As a result you have developed a horrible disease now in the West called ‘yuppie’s disease’ where human beings just become like reptiles.

Now some people go onto the left-hand side to balance the right side. Like a pendulum goes to the right then it must move to the left. So to overcome the right side they start indulging into things. Of course, we had horrible people like Freud who was absolutely half-baked. He didn’t know about these two things. He only talked of the left side. And he has reduced human beings to a sex point.

Movement towards the left started with all these horrible…. they are anti-Christ’s. They are anti-Christ! Because Christ has said, “Thou shalt not have adulterous eyes.” Can you imagine? Up to that; up to that subtlety he said, there should not be adultery in your eyes. But I don’t know who we worship. In all the Christian nations all you find is one fundamental principle; is to see and to be seen. All the time the eyes are hovering like that, full of lust and greed. It’s very surprising how this has gone into our heads. Our attention has become very disturbed by this. So as a result of movement to the left we start indulging into all kinds of so called pleasures.

Then all kinds of funny people came up saying that we must experience everything. I was told there is a poet who started this hippyism here. Experience everything; we experience all kinds of drugs, all kinds of alcohols, all kinds of women, experiment with…. why not with poison? And somebody told me; because it is new you must experiment. There’s no wisdom in this kind of preaching; no wisdom; and no understanding of totality and reality. It is such a horrible thing that I feel absolutely concerned that; what is going to happen to this decadent society?

Say in France, if you go… When I first went to France they said that, “Mother, you look so happy and people will think you are an ignoramus. You have to look miserable.” So I started my lecture with “Les miserables”. (Laughter) If at every tenth lamppost there’s a prostitute standing, and after every twentieth lamppost there’s a pub, and after that somebody is selling drugs, what else will happen? You will be miserable. You are inviting your pain. And then on top of that, very nicely, very generously, they say there is nothing evil, nothing evil. There is no evil. No evil!

So now once in a dinner I was sitting with the ambassador of Mexico and he told me that one should always experiment with something new, and Freud told us something new always. I said, “Alright, we have had this kind of dinner before, but we have never tasted the table. So why not eat the table now, to be new?” (Laughter) There should be some traditional wisdom in people to understand that, why should we try whatever is new? We should know whether it is detrimental to our health or not; and not try everything that is new.

And what I found about these seven hippies – they were extremely greedy! They used to eat a lot, which I was surprised about – as if they were taking some sort of an appetizer. And such a lot of food they would consume! I was amazed; how could they manage? So they told me they take that “bung”, what is it in English that “bung”; hashish? They take that hashish.

In India, where it grows, some servants, some miserable people take it. I mean, I have known only one person in my household who used to take that, but he was regarded as a leper. No wife will live with such a man, no children will live. He will have no jobs. He will have to stay somewhere like a leper, in a leper’s home. Nobody educated can think of such a nonsense. The first small thing we must understand is that whatever destroys our awareness, or changes our awareness for a short time, how can it be good for us?

I am sorry; this is the first time that I am talking so clearly to you people because I have found that Dutch people are very intelligent. I have talked about these things to Sahaja Yogis but never to the general public, because half of them might leave.

Then we had some people who came. They had hair all twisted, with lice in their hair and I asked them, “Why do you do this? It’s primitive.” He said, “I want to be primitive.” (Laughter) I said, “You cannot be, because your brain is modern. By growing this kind of hair how can you become primitive?”

And then he came to Holland, I must tell you, and died here.

So many of them have died, and do you know, they were seekers of truth. They were seeking something beyond, and in their earnestness they lost the path. It’s very sad. All these things have happened. So many people we have lost. So this kind of indulgence took us so much away from the central path of our ascent.

Our chakras are made like this, left and right, both sides. Now if you start using too much on the left or the right they become constricted, and if something happens suddenly on the left, or a shock, they just break. So the connection with the whole is lost and then you start moving on your own. That is how a malignancy is created. That is how cancer is created.

I have to tell you about this right side because actually in the West people are more right-sided. I will be just dealing with one centre because there’s not so much time. We have this second centre here in yellow colour if you see, it’s called the Swadhistana. It manifests your aortic plexus, in the medical terminology. Maybe they might have changed the names because I did medicine a long time back.

Alright, now this aortic plexus gives us physical and mental power. And, as you have seen, it goes from the right, turns towards the optic chiasma, and goes to the left hand side as ego. And it gives us ideas about the future.

So now, when a person thinks too much… We just go on thinking like mad, I mean, there’s no need to think so much, but we do think. We try to plan everything; now how will I go, which bus shall I take; then I’ll go home, then my wife will be angry…or some sort of a thing. We cannot remain in the present. The future doesn’t exist so we waste our energy thinking about the future. But this centre has too much work when you think, because it has to convert… or give energy to the brain cells. So now when you think too much, other functions of this Swadhistan centre become absolutely zero. The other functions are liver and pancreas, spleen, kidney and part of the intestines. So when it is neglected, first of all your liver goes out of order.

The liver is the one that takes out poison from your body and throws it out. Throws it into the… I don’t know the English word – we can say, throws it into the blood circulation, to make it simpler. But when this liver is ‘out’2, all that heat remains in your stomach, and when this heat starts rising you develop problems of your lungs, like asthma. This also melts the phlegm and you develop a funny type of a cold, like hay fever and sneezing; all the time cold. Some people sneeze sixty times in the morning.

Also this heat goes to the heart and you get a heart attack. There are two types of heart attacks. One which comes because of overwork, like the one I told you, and another one from a lethargic heart, like angina. Now this heat goes downwards, it coagulates your kidneys. Then you cannot pass urine, you have to be on dialysis. You just spend money and then die. This heat goes downward and you get constipated and you have all the troubles of constipation. This is only because of one centre.

Another is your pancreas. Now this pancreas is actually the one which is responsible for absorbing your sugar but it is so big that it cannot do it, so you develop diabetes. You develop diabetes because you think too much. Can you believe that? In Indian villages, you see the farmers, if you don’t give them the sugar where the spoon has to stand at a right angle they will say, “This is not tea!” you know. (Laughter) But they never get diabetes because they don’t think. (Laughter and clapping)

Then the third horrible disease people develop is due to the spleen. The spleen is the speedometer within us. Supposing you eat your food and just walk or run, then you get pain in the spleen because it reacts to emergencies. It has to produce more red blood corpuscles, ‘RBC’s, whenever there is an emergency. But our modern life is so hectic that in the morning first you see the newspapers, already one shock. (Laughter) I mean, there is always horrible news and you get a shock. Again this poor spleen starts pumping out. Then you have a hangover, (Laughter) so you don’t get up early very much, so you have no time even to go to the bathroom. Somehow you get dressed and get into your car without taking your breakfast – of course, you may carry some food with you and on the way eat it – and when you go in the office the boss is shouting at you; you come home, your wife is shouting at you, (Laughter) or maybe the husband.

Because of this hectic life you have no patience, with yourself, or with anyone else. But this poor spleen doesn’t know how to cope with crazy people who are all the time hectic. It becomes mad, and it starts producing all these RBCs all the time. It doesn’t know when to… just like a crazy person. And then suddenly a shock comes from the left side; he gets a horrible disease called leukaemia, blood cancer. It is curable in Sahaja Yoga. We have many cases. If you follow Sahaja Yoga, it’s absolutely curable. Those who are cured are architects, chartered accountants, doctors, lawyers and bureaucrats, (Laughter) and bankers. It’s surprising. And also the women who are very much planning all the time and hectic, can have children with this leukaemia, can have children with diabetes. So with one centre in imbalance, going to the right, how many diseases are standing on our head?

But the most dangerous is the last centre which manifests the pelvic plexus and is the centre which also looks after sexual activity. This is the centre of innocence. Now when we indulge too much, arbitrarily into all kinds of nonsensical things, you see… There’s nothing like private parts left; nothing like private parts. And when it gets spoiled you get so many varieties of diseases, and basically so horrible; starting with AIDS and these muscular disabilities. All diseases of muscular disabilities come from that. Also you develop these horrible secret diseases like gonorrhoea and all that.

This centre is to be respected. We have to respect our chastity. If we do not have a sense of chastity, we are in for trouble. And when somebody says this, people don’t like it. They think that it is being made into a taboo, and their freedom is curbed. But actually we become slaves of this. I mean, in India we never know anything about this till we are married, and we produce children alright, much more than any one of you can do. (Laughter) Sometimes I think the way children are treated…. In England they say two children are killed in London city every week, killed by their parents. I think all of them want to be born in India, where even if they have ten children, they will love all of them; because we never have problems in producing children. While, you would be surprised, in England, in Germany, even in America, the white people have a negative growth rate. I don’t know about Holland? Also Holland?

So we have gone wrong somewhere. We have to understand that these things are not joy giving. If it was nice to carry on with ten men or ten women then why is there jealousy? You should have enjoyed it. But it’s not so. Husbands murder wives, wives murder husbands. All over these things happen. That means basically we don’t like all this. So now we have to understand that we have to respect our innocence.

After Sahaja Yoga you will be surprised, your innocence will be awakened. Your eyes become innocent. You can see Sahaja Yogis how they are. We had recently about one thousand five hundred in Italy. They don’t look at women or men. Nothing of the kind! Nobody has the fear that when he goes home his wife will run away with another. Nothing of the kind! There is no such insecurity anywhere – such pure relationships – and we have marriages, and we have children, no problem! There is no insecurity of any kind in Sahaja Yoga.

So this is what happens to you spontaneously, and you become a really righteous person, and you start enjoying your value system. Of course, I must say that India has other problems; economics, and politics… horrible, horrible. So if I say that this is the sin against the Mother – of indulgence into such pleasures which are destructive – then India has got the sin against the Father, because they feel so insecure. Politically, economically, it’s a mess. They tell lies. I mean just see the way these false gurus are telling lies. I’m amazed.

I heard about T.M. being very successful here. It’s very surprising. You see, such lies! After four or five years they all become recluses. The gentleman who was running their ‘flying academy’ in Runnock in Scotland came to me with his wife and his child, with his director. They all were suffering from epilepsy, of a serious type. Especially that lady, for three hours she used to be in that state. Luckily, in those days my husband was on tour, so I put them up in my own house. They all got cured and now they have gone to South Africa because they were South Africans; but they lost all their property, they lost all their money, and became bankrupt. The husband was a diamond merchant and the wife was the daughter of a duke.

And they told me about the lies. That the first time, when they joined, they were asked to take some mantra; and three mantras were used. And were told with a great… you see, you couldn’t just sit like this… you had to go through seven rooms, and the guru was sitting at this height – the “giggly guru” he was called – he was four feet tall! And you had to pay in advance for that mantra. And the mantras were “inga”, “pinga”, “tinga”! (Laughter) There are no such Sanskrit words, and this guru doesn’t know a word of Sanskrit himself. He speaks some sort of a, what you can call a rustic language. So “inga” means the scorpion bite, “pinga” means when a person gets possessed and goes round and round, and “tinga” means showing like this to someone. (Thumbs up sign)

For this they paid three hundred pounds; and then they had to go to Switzerland… I mean, people must use their brains. They should have asked some Indian. He would have laughed! Then they went down to Switzerland – six thousand pounds – to learn how to fly in the air. Why do people want to fly at three feet like that? Imagine the jam on the road! You can’t, you cannot fly. It’s all nonsense. Alright, they believed it; they wanted to fly – six thousand pounds!

And then they were asked to go in a hotel and stay there. And you’ll be amazed, they paid six thousand pounds, and they were asked to drink the water of boiled potatoes for six days to become lighter in weight. (Laughter) Then, on the seventh day, they were given the rind of the potatoes, the skin. And then, on the last day, they were given potatoes to eat. Six thousand pounds! Then they were made to sit on some sort of foam and they started jumping, and so many broke their bottoms, really, and they have made a case against them. And they have paid – they have paid! In America!

All kinds of things there are; one better than the other I tell you. There’s no end to these stupid people who came here and told all kinds of lies. And you people believed them? And they said, “Mother, but he said he was Bhagwan3.” So what? They are liars of the first waters. They can tell you lies. Because Dutch people never tell lies, that’s why they think Indians cannot tell lies. You were all cheated and I feel ashamed of the whole thing. And to add to all this nonsense Mr Freud, Mr Sartre and all these nonsensical people were throwing their theories at you.

And the worst are the entrepreneurs. They introduce new ideas. Like in England, with that cold weather, people were wearing pants with holes in them, square holes. And I asked them, “Why do you wear these holy pants?” “This is the fashion.” But in England it’s so cold, I mean, you will get into trouble. Then the ladies had to wear something extremely tight, some new fashion, so they could not get into the buses. So they had to be pushed like this! (Laughter) Every time I come I find a new fashion of the hair, new fashion of the dress… because these entrepreneurs are working out their machines, and they want you to pay for it. That’s all. So this is the Paris fashion, this is this fashion. Why should you take to all that nonsense? I am just telling you because we are not aware as to how these entrepreneurs are befooling us. There’s no alternative left for us to be befooled, that’s all, I think.

If you come to Sahaja Yoga, you develop that age old wisdom which is there stored up in your head. Because, when the Kundalini comes up here, she enlightens you completely. Then you understand how mad this world is, and then you realise how you can be benevolent to yourself, how you can bring benevolence to everybody else – because you get empowered. Permissiveness and abandonment are not freedom. Freedom is only possible when you are the Spirit. Freedom which has no wisdom in it cannot be freedom. But when you have your real freedom nothing can dominate you. No-one can cheat you. You know everyone very well.

Today I am sorry I didn’t talk too much about Sahaja Yoga, but about how we have gone into wrong alleys – because we have to come to the centre.

So the attention is spread like this, like a cloth you can say, and when the Kundalini rises she pulls the attention into the centre. This attention becomes so active and so effective that even paying attention to somebody you can help them. The eyes become so innocent that even a glance from such a person can do many things. You just feel that you are the storehouse of peace, joy and wisdom. But you don’t feel superior to others, but you feel concerned. Most of the Sahaja Yogis are asking me, “Mother, what is going to happen to this world? When are all of them going to get realisation?” It’s your freedom that you should take your realisation. I cannot force it on you.

I would like you to ask me some questions again today for a short time, remembering that I have not come here to take away anything from you, but I am going to give you something that is your own – the key to that – which has been there all the time, in a sleeping state. So when you ask me questions, please ask me questions which are related to this subject.

Question: How do you know when your chakras are cured, when your chakras are complete?

Sri Mataji: Then you start getting a cool breeze in your hands and it starts flowing from your head, a lot of cool breeze; and you can get thoughtlessly aware; and you can give realisation to others; and you can cure people; and you are in joy. Joy is not unhappiness and happiness. It’s not duality. It is joy to be experienced.

Question: What should we do with our sexual energy when we are not married?

Sri Mataji: One should marry, (Laughter and applause) that’s why you have that energy, and marry nicely for ever.

Question: This man has had an amputation of his hand but he still feels this ‘phantom pain.’ How does this work?

Sri Mataji: We’ll see that. You try Sahaja Yoga. What is this gentleman saying?

Question: I started with Sahaja Yoga three years ago but so far I have not had any particular experience, even though I meditate twice a day.

Sri Mataji: Where did you start?

Question: He started in Antwerp but he is not participating in the meetings.

Sri Mataji: You see, I told you it’s a collective happening now. It’s not like other, former types of saintliness where one individual was a saint. You have to be in the collective, like you are part and parcel of the whole. Supposing my nail is cut out, it will never grow, will it? If you live individually it won’t work out.

And the feeling is so strong that I am very proud to tell you that twenty-five German Sahaja Yogis flew down to Russia to help the Russians. At their own expense, everything, they were there and I was amazed to see them there suddenly. So they said, “Mother, are we not supposed to do something for what our forefathers have done?” And such love between them, really, I mean, it’s to be seen and to be enjoyed.

We have Muslims, we have Christians, we have all kinds of races, white, black, all kinds – there’s no question of feeling that you are something different, because your Spirit is the collective being. It’s the reflection of one God Almighty. And when you become that, not only that you are collectively conscious, but you become collective. Like if this hand has any pain, this other hand immediately goes to help; you don’t have to tell this hand.

Question: Can you explain me more about sexual energy? (Some laughter)

Sri Mataji: What?

Question: How to deal with it.

Sri Mataji: First you get your realisation. In darkness you do not know how you are related to others. In the light you will know.

Question: Is Sahaja Yoga your own creation?

Sri Mataji: No, not at all my creation, I wouldn’t say that. It’s the most ancient thing, and even if you read the whole of Patanjali’s Sat Yoga it’s the ultimate aim.

Actually, we had three types of movements in spirituality in India, three types. One was on the right side where they were dealing with the Vedas; so just to enlighten the elements within us. But ‘vida’ also means to feel it on your central nervous system. And the very first words of the Vedas say that; by reading this, if you do not know the truth, it’s better to close the book – if you do not seek the truth.

Then there is another one where they thought of devotion, of ‘bhakti’, praying to God. But without connection if you pray, how can God hear you? Krishna has also said it should be ‘ananya bhakti’, which means when we are connected. Without a connection we cannot telephone to God, that’s the point.

Now the third was the central path, which was done by Nath Panthis, since long. Ultimately these two had to submerge into the third one of ascent.

Fourteen thousand years back Markandeya wrote about Kundalini, then also Adi Shankaracharya – everybody has talked about Kundalini. But the system was such that the tradition was to have one guru to one disciple only, one disciple. And it was all in the Sanskrit language. So only in the twelfth century one great saint, called Ganeshwara, wrote about it for the public in a local language. Then it started, like Kabira, like Nanaka, like Tukaram – all of them started talking about it to people. They were individuals, and they all suffered a lot.

Buddha also has said the same thing; Mahavira has said the same thing; Zen is the same thing; Tao is the same thing; Christ has said the same thing; Moses has said the same thing; Mohammed has said the same thing – they are all related to each other. Christ has said, “Those who are not against us are with us.” Also this is the tree of life. In the Bible it is written, “I’ll appear before you like tongues of flames.” These chakras look like that. Mohammed Sahib has clearly said that at the time of ‘kiyama’, resurrection, your hands will speak and will give witness against you.

So they all have said the same; only we are fighting because we have blinkers.

Question: What is the relationship of prana to your system?

Sri Mataji: Prana is the right side and when it is enlightened it is called pranava. Prana is only right side. That’s why I said Hatha Yoga is not suitable for you.

:; He is arguing that ‘asanas’ are the second stage in Patanjali’s system Sri Mataji.

Sri Mataji: No, no, not at all. Yamenyema is one of the astangas. There are eight fold in Patanjali, out of which one is yamenyama. Out of nyema there is one fold which is exercises, asanas. And there are only ten asanas, he has written, ten. And they are all related to chakras. So only when the Kundalini rises, and she stops at some place due to a physical problem, we also use any one of these asanas. But it’s a science, it’s a science. But otherwise the way people are doing asanas, it’s something like taking all kinds of medicines out of the medicine box without any discrimination.

With enlightenment this prana becomes pranava. But the whole of Patanjali’s work is so big, out of which these exercises are so little, and the rest of it is nothing but Sahaja Yoga. (Sri Mataji laughs) He has talked of nirvichar samadhi, meaning thoughtless awareness; he has talked of nirvikalpa samadhi, which means doubtless awareness; everything – the stages which you have to pass. This all-pervading power is called ritambhara pragya, which creates the seasons. Ritambhara pragya. “Pra” is for enlightenment, “gya” is the knowledge, knowledge that is enlightened.

They say that a little knowledge is more dangerous than ignorance. But these are not the days of Patanjali. As we have grown outside, this knowledge has also grown deep. And if we do not have the knowledge of the roots, this big tree will fall over. So we have to have the knowledge of the roots.

Question: How do we get knowledge?

Sri Mataji: Just now we are going to work it out. You are a real seeker I can see that. You’ll get it in no time. Alright, so let’s have the knowledge now. He has already asked the right question to me, “What about the knowledge?”

Now, what’s it? What is that gentleman asking? What is it?

Question: Is it destiny for each living creature to reach God’s will?

Sri Mataji: It must be something like destiny. Otherwise in this place, Amsterdam, there are so many people, how is it that so few are here? While in Russia I have to always hire big stadiums. So it must be the destiny that they go to false gurus and finish off. It must be destiny. I can’t explain it otherwise. You are destined to be realised so you are here. It must be your good deeds of the previous lives, “guru punyas” as they call it. Guru punyas.

Question: Is Sahaja Yoga the same as Kundalini Yoga, and if it is, can it be dangerous?

Sri Mataji: It is actually Kundalini Yoga; but in the so called ‘Kundalini Yoga’ there is no Kundalini awakening at all. It’s hokus pokus! (Laughter)

What is your question?

Question: If there is a catch do we focus only on that and how do we discriminate between which medicines to take?

That of course they will tell you. You will know yourself. It’s not difficult. You will be amazed that this enlightenment is so great; I am myself amazed that, such a subtle knowledge, you know it in no time. I mean except some mad people who are really mad, that’s different, but otherwise you know it in no time.

Question: Whatever happens, does it have to happen? Is it our destiny?

Sri Mataji: Yes, of course. (Laughter) You are here because your destiny has brought you here. What you think is not your destiny, but what it is is. What is he saying?

Question: And there is destiny?

Sri Mataji: That’s it. (Laughter) Those who are not destined will not even stay for the programme. (Laughter) There are people who come all the way and just leave the hall before realisation because they are not destined. You can’t help them.

Question: Sri Mataji, but what happens to these people? (Someone leaves – laughter.)

Sri Mataji: I don’t know where they will be fitted in. I just don’t know really. You see, my concern is with you people, the seekers.

Question: The Bible speaks about the apocalypse and that it should be horrible.

Sri Mataji: Yes, of course. It’s all there. (Laughter) Very much so!

Question: Is this also destiny?

Sri Mataji: Of course it is. This is the resurrection time. But don’t ask me about me, I’m not going to tell you.

Question: Why?

Sri Mataji: Why? Because Christ said he was the son of God, which was the truth, and people crucified him. I don’t want to get crucified just now. (A lot of applause) You’d better find me out yourself. Through your Spirit you can find out about me. I’m not going to tell you anything about myself, because you can find out the absolute truth. So let us wait till you get your realisation.

Question: Christ didn’t say who he was.

Sri Mataji: He did in a way. I mean he did say in a way. You see, he should have been more cautious as I am now. Because he didn’t know people could be that horrible. He talked of his Father, he did everything, but people could not tolerate anyone saying that. Today also it is the same situation, where the thieves have become great, religious people; thieves, the mafia, this, that; while a real person is nothing. No saint, real saint, was spared; even in India they were tortured. We have to establish the emancipation of the whole world so we have to be careful. What is he saying?

Question: (Person arguing) Christ knew everything at the time he lived. (Some people ask this man to be quiet)

Sri Mataji: It’s true, agreed. But today there is no Christ. I am sitting before you, all right, so don’t avoid me now.

(Indicating another person) What was it that he wanted to know?

Question: Could you say something about the astral worlds Sri Mataji?

Sri Mataji: Oh that’s all nonsense. (Laughter) You should go into the kingdom of God first of all and then know all these things, all right. This is all horrible stuff. You will know each and every thing. I am not saying that you will not know. You will know everything. But first you achieve your status, you achieve your protection. As you have to be a doctor first, then to operate.

Question: She has a guru and she asks if you know this man. His name is Da Free John, or Da Kalki he calls himself.

Sri Mataji: You see there is a saying; Guru Nanaka has said, “Guru wahi jo sahibamili hai.” which means, “He is the guru who just gives you self realisation, to be in connection with God.” The rest are not gurus.

(Some disagreement from the person asking the question)

See now, if you are satisfied with him you can go to him, but as far as I’m concerned, I don’t think your guru is alright, to be very frank. She’s catching so much on the left. Of course, there are real gurus no doubt, but they are not in the market. I am the only one who has ventured.

Question: Why has Sahaja Yoga not come earlier?

Sri Mataji: That’s a question really. You see I had to find out a way, a method, by which I could give ‘en masse’ realisation. So with my own penetration I tried to understand human beings, their permutations and combinations. It only worked out in 1970, and I started Sahaja Yoga with one lady. One! Moreover, it’s a living process. You can produce thousands of plastic flowers, but to produce real flowers you have to have time.

I came here in the year 1965 with my husband and I met one man who was very much interested in Sahaja Yoga, but when I told him he said, “Don’t talk about it.” Officially, I was here with my husband. People were not prepared also. I went to America before any one of these gurus had gone, but they didn’t like me because I was not pampering their ego.

Question: Why do you think people need gurus?

Sri Mataji: There is no need at all. You have to be your own guru. You have to be your own guru, but of course you need guidance no doubt. Without enlightenment how can you be your guru?

Actually, I would say it was the advertising department of these gurus which has worked on the minds of people. Any advertisement, you see, really makes you absolutely surrendered to it. So they earn this money by befooling people and making big, big advertisements, then getting more people and more money, and making more advertisements, very huge big… they own newspapers, they have got big television channels and everything.

So if you can be befooled by advertisements, how can anybody help such people? We should not get enamoured by that. For example, whatever I have said also you shouldn’t have blind faith. If you experience it – then. When you experience it, then as honest people you must know that this is the truth. Alright?

So now let us have it because I’ve spent about one hour answering your questions. I was going to spend ten minutes but it doesn’t matter. Because you are intelligent people you must ask questions no doubt. But that proves beyond doubt that you are free people. You cannot ask any questions to these gurus. No questions are to be asked. Alright.

But asking questions, answering, – I am very good at, because now I have known all kinds. But this is mental acrobatics. This doesn’t give a guarantee for realisation. So if you want to have your realisation you must have it, and have a very strong desire to have your self realisation.

Self Realisation

Most of you have got it, most. One or two, or three, four haven’t. It doesn’t matter, you have to be honest.

I bow to all of you. You are all saints. Look after your growth.

There are some people who did not feel it. They shouldn’t feel so bad. The Sahaja Yogis can work it out for them. They can come out and then Sahaja Yogis will work it out for them. In any way I would like to shake hands with all of you.

1 On chart of chakras

2 ‘Out’ – out of balance

3 Bhagwan – God

H.H. Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi