Informal gathering

Vienna (Austria)

Translate this text yourself

TRANSCRIPT OF VISIT TO AUSTRIA INFORMAL TALKS 1991-1025

[Transcript starts from 1:12:00. A few unclear informal exchanges from start to 45 minutes. Mother and Sahaja Yogis may be working on chakras and catches. Sounds of people and children moving in the background. There is a sitar instrumental performance playing from 45 minutes to 1:10:00].

Shri Mataji: What do you say?

Sahaja Yogi: Mother, I feel both the Vishuddhi, both the Agyna, Nabhi, Central Heart, Swadishthan.

[Long pause in conversation].

Shri Mataji: No use talking you know. Talking is just talk, talk, talk, talk, talk. It should go into your heads. You should understand how important it is for you to meditate and keep all right. Because if you think this is a very important work we are doing, you have to work it out. Also, we must be capable, worthy of it. Worthy of the name of Sahaja Yoga isn’t it?

[Phone rings].

Sahaja Yogi: Hello? We are with Shri Mataji at the moment. Can you ring back later? Can you please ring later? Yes. Thank you.

[Pause in conversation].

Shri Mataji: Right. You have Nabhi, Right Heart. Gregoire, how is [UNCLEAR]?

[UNCLEAR/reply from Gregoire].

Shri Mataji: You have been to TM? Have you been to TM?

Sahaja Yogini: No.

Shri Mataji: You haven’t been to anything?

Sahaja Yogini: I have read several books in the direction of management frameworks.

Shri Mataji: What?

Sahaja Yogini: How to be successful.

Shri Mataji: How to?

Sahaja Yogini: How to be successful. How to impress people.

Shri Mataji: How to be successful.

Sahaja Yogi: To impress the people.

Shri Mataji: Rajneesh, have you read Rajneesh?

Sahaja Yogini: No. Not that I would know of.

Shri Mataji: How can that be? These vibrations are very bad. Don’t you feel anything yourself?

Sahaja Yogini: I feel Vishuddhi, and the Agyna and the Heart.

Shri Mataji: What do you feel now? Let us see. You have been in Sahaja Yoga for so many years, what is [UNCLEAR/this?]. What do you say now? Collective, collective. You are less collective.

Sahaja Yogini: Shri Mataji, I am somewhat [UNCLEAR/disappointed]. I don’t go out much.

Shri Mataji: You don’t meditate. That’s it.

Sahaja Yogini: I didn’t go for long. [UNCLEAR/because of someone]. I didn’t meditate.

Shri Mataji: You are the mother of sweet children. You have to be responsible. Don’t you understand? How could you be like that?

Sahaja Yogini: I think just my marriage is too much. I don’t know what to do. I somehow think of it as a punishment. [UNCLEAR/is wrong/feel my breath is wrong]. I have felt like this for seven years. I don’t know, I just can’t get rid of breathing.

Shri Mataji: You don’t know what?

Sahaja Yogini: I can’t get rid of breathing. Because even my breath is wrong. Whatever I do, it is wrong.

Shri Mataji: Can’t get rid of what?

Sahaja Yogini: Of breathing.

Sahaja Yogi: Breathing, Shri Mataji.

Sahaja Yogini: I just [UNCLEAR/eyes] all day long. I just don’t know what to do.

Shri Mataji: You get a breathing problem?

Sahaja Yogini: I have that, yes, Mother. But that is gone. I have this pain in the breast to some extent.

Shri Mataji: Like asthma?

Sahaja Yogini: Like bronchitis.

Sahaja Yogis: Bronchitis.

Shri Mataji: Right heart she has.

Sahaja Yogini: I just don’t know what to do with the relationship with Gary because I feel there is just no relationship. I have tried so hard for so many years. There is nothing.

Shri Mataji: What is so dreadful?

Sahaja Yogini: I don’t know. Somedays I think maybe Gary doesn’t have a heart. Someday it came in my prayers maybe the doctors should check him up, maybe there is something. I don’t know. He should have become soft at some stage. He just [UNCLEAR].

Shri Mataji: You don’t like him.

Sahaja Yogini: I mean, he denies me for so many years, I don’t know what to do.

Shri Mataji: You don’t like him?

Sahaja Yogini: At this time, I don’t feel much about him.

Shri Mataji: But why do you think about him? Think about yourself. Your own vibrations are not all right. You think by getting out of him you will be, all right? No, not at all. I don’t think so.

Sahaja Yogini: I know that when he was away for two weeks in the summer, it was just so nice. Peace at home. The children had some kind of harmony that was just not possible.

Shri Mataji: Something wrong with you also.

Sahaja Yogini: Yes, sure.

Shri Mataji: Better get all right. Why put your attention to him? Why don’t you get all right? Supposing tomorrow you get some disease. How will you manage? Something wrong with you, terribly wrong.

Sahaja Yogini: I tried so hard to get right for six years. I just don’t know how to do it.

Shri Mataji: You don’t meditate sincerely. You must know you have a problem, a physical problem within yourself. See you must understand that. Why do you put attention to him? Why don’t you put attention to yourself? You have to lead with yourself now.

Supposing somebody has some defects, supposing. If I pay attention to that defect, what will I do? What is the advantage? If I have the defect, I better look after my defect isn’t it? Because I am in my own control, isn’t it? Now you have, supposing, this blouse of yours. You are wearing this, your blouse. Something wrong with the blouse, you can put it right. But what is the use of looking at somebody else’s blouse and saying this should be all right?

The idea of a husband-wife relationship also must be changed. This has to be of a different type. You see we are parents of children and the children cannot rapport – I don’t know, I cannot see there are vibrations also. But you must understand; they cannot, should not be deprived of their father. Something great.

Sahaja Yogini: He doesn’t talk to me.

Shri Mataji: Ah?

Sahaja Yogi: He doesn’t talk to me. I mean, since years he doesn’t talk.

Shri Mataji: Does not?

Sahaja Yogi: He doesn’t talk to her since years, she says.

Shri Mataji: He doesn’t talk?

Sahaja Yogini: The minute I go into a room, he goes out.

Shri Mataji: Really? Why? Come here. But this you did with Kay also. Once we decide like that, then how are you going to work it out? If you have decided on such a thing, poor children, why should they suffer? Both of you are stupid that way I must say.

You did the same with Kay. I said, “She is still [UNCLEAR]”. Sometimes some idea goes into your head and settles down. Now see, she is very happily married. She has children. She is quite normal.

In Sahaja Yoga, if you cannot love, you are not a Sahaja Yogi.

Love can win over anything. Even the stones melt.

But this your habit. It is an Australian habit. I know that. Once something gets into your heads, it sticks on. Why don’t you think of your children now? Producing so many children. And are you going to put them into problems now, coming to Sahaja Yoga?

Trying to dominate him. You are quite dominating also, is it? You must know that. Very right-sided. His habit is like that. That if you dominate he will run away. That is his style. I know that fellow. Why should anyone dominate? Tell Me, what is the need? For what? What is the gain? What is the advantage? Tell Me now. I just want to know.

You see, you think too much [UNCLEAR]. Don’t try to correct him. Correct yourself. Now try it for a while. You are right-sided. Extremely right-sided. And you get irritated because of that. All right-sided people are irritable. They get irritated and they start seeing defects of others. They themselves are ruined out. It is dangerous. Very dangerous. To live on your right side is extremely dangerous nowadays.

You know that ultimately what happens. You get [UNCLEAR/paralysis]. When you just become like a reptile and somebody has to carry you on your body.

There is no joy. A woman has to be wiser than a man. God has given her more qualities. Much more sustenance, much more – look at Me. What am I doing here? Tell Me. I was nicely going to Cabella. You call Me here. Now, what am I doing? Suffering crucifixion.

Why am I doing it? You tell Me, what is My gain? What do I get out of it?

Because they are My children. I have to look after them. I have to bear it. All right?

You don’t exist when the children are born. Try to understand this part.

You live only for your children.

If two persons cannot live together happily, how can this world be going to live happily? You tell Me. In Sahaja Yoga.

Sahaja Yogini: Mataji, if there is a chance, I would like Gary to take up responsibility over to Claire too. That we have enough money, that the work is done, everything is my responsibility. I am sure he could have a full day job and more money and it would make our lives so much easier. But he wants to be self-employed only half the day. And it only costs time. And if he would get a full day job, it would be easy and it could really help the whole situation.

Shri Mataji: See what is the harm? Always men have to earn, sometimes a woman has to earn. My husband earns for Me, I have never earned a single pie. Then? Because you are a woman you think like that. You think that because you are a woman, why should you only earn and why shouldn’t he? So all right, take that position. But if you are all earning somebody has to look after the children also.

Sahaja Yogini: Yes, they can go to the kindergarten. Anyway, when he comes home from work he takes them to the [UNCLEAR/park] past three. By this time, I am quite finished.

Shri Mataji: This is a very minor point. I don’t think it is such a big thing as an atomic bomb. This is useless. This argument is useless. I mean, because he earns, he doesn’t earn – this is absolutely not in Sahaja. As much as you can earn, you earn. It is not like you …

Sahaja Yogini: But if he wanted to – I mean I just don’t get out of the right side.

Shri Mataji: How much money do you want, one month?

Sahaja Yogini: I don’t know.

Shri Mataji: There is no end to it. Whatever you get is never going to be sufficient. Is there any end to it?

Money can never be sufficient for people who think the money is not sufficient. Don’t you think so?

What is the amount? What is the amount you want him to earn?

Sahaja Yogini: I don’t think it is the amount of money.

Shri Mataji: No, no but tell Me. Just tell Me. How much money would you need to be happy with him? Just tell Me that.

Sahaja Yogini: I don’t know. I don’t know.

Shri Mataji: You have to tell Me. Because then I can tell him that. But I know his habit. He seeks [UNCLEAR]. That is a bad habit. I told him about that. But you also should understand. It is more gracious. When you earn it is much better. You can be more gracious. You can be magnanimous. A person who doesn’t earn anything, how can he be magnanimous? All the good qualities you can have if you earn more. I would think that way, isn’t it?

But do it graciously. Be gracious. It is so nice, that you can do for your children. Do for them, look after them, you can earn so much. It is such a great thing that God has given you such a capacity. Supposing you are not earning at all. Then? What would have happened?

But be gracious about it. You see, like America – tells everyone it has money. But no grace. No grace. No one likes Americans. American help we don’t want.

You should not have the suggestion at all when you earn something you that are doing something. In a gracious way and secretly you should do it. In a beautiful way. Then only it works. If My husband tries to show off, I will not stay with him for one day even, I tell you. That he earns. It is all right. That is his work. That is what he is doing. I mean, out of so many people, how many women earn? You know that [UNCLEAR]. More than the husband. Very few.

But when it comes to women they start feeling, “I am doing this, I am doing that”. Why? I can’t understand. You know you can earn more than him. You know that very well. You know that potential isn’t it? You are an intelligent woman. I am just trying to understand. All right?

Now, when you are earning more, you have a better chance of giving him presents, looking after him, isn’t it? I mean it is a much better chance you have than he has.

Sahaja Yogini: Mother, I would like him to take over some responsibility, just for anything.

Shri Mataji: What responsibility?

Sahaja Yogini: I don’t know. For the family, for earning, for how we have our time for the children, for everything. He leaves everything to me. And when I do something he says, “But you were bad”. I can’t get out of any responsibility because he just does not take it. If I take responsibility he tells me I am bad.

Shri Mataji: You knew that?

Sahaja Yogi: I am not conscious that I am like that, Shri Mataji. I don’t do it purposely. It is Edith’s view of me.

Shri Mataji: I see no sense in your quarrelling. I tell you I don’t see quarrel in that. There is no point. I mean, what is such a responsibility? Better tell Me. What is the responsibility, tell Me?

Sahaja Yogini: It would be that he takes the children to the kindergarten in the morning, for instance.

Shri Mataji: He doesn’t put them in the kindergarten?

Sahaja Yogini: I don’t expect him to do it, so he doesn’t do it. He doesn’t do for one and a half year how long ever. I just [UNCLEAR] at him every day that he takes them.

Shri Mataji: But kindergarten why don’t you send? You said no.

Sahaja Yogi: No Shri Mataji. I did not say no. I am happy if they go to the kindergarten.

Sahaja Yogini: But he does not take them to the kindergarten because he has to start his work. He starts every day too late. And I don’t tell him to do it so he just doesn’t do it. I have the responsibility to take them to the kindergarten so they get to that stage. I am so tired after so many years. I did it for many years.

Shri Mataji: Supposing now, take a position. Supposing he goes out of your life. Then who will do this work?

Sahaja Yogini: I can do it. Then I have a car.

Shri Mataji: You can do it? You are tired you are saying already.

Sahaja Yogini: I am tired of telling him a thousand times, he can take …

Shri Mataji: Supposing you forget him. Supposing.

Sahaja Yogini: Yes, if I have the car I can do it. But he goes to work in the car so I don’t have the car. I mean without the car I cannot do it.

Shri Mataji: Edith, you are such an intelligent woman. It is such a simple trick you have to play, just to get all right. Now do one thing. I agree with you. You don’t stay here at the house. You can stay separately. You can meet the children all right. Let her go, let us see if she feels all right. All right, try. All right, try. Now be sensible.

Because you have another fourth child that is the problem. As you look after your children you want to tell him to do this, do that. If you forget he is not your child then you may not feel tired. Because you have to tell him also, he is your fourth child. That is the problem. All right let’s see. Let us see. All right?

So you can separate. You can see the children, you can meet the children. You don’t tell her anything and she will not tell you anything. She is like a little girl I tell you, really.

May God Bless You.

I don’t see any problem there. There is one thing one knows men never like. If you tell them do something, they will never do it. They are men. But on their own, they will do. It is a fact. I mean, they are men, after all, you see. They are men, we are women. Must accept our position. And they must accept theirs. You tell them, “Do it”, and they will not do it. But if you don’t tell them, they will tell you and show you, “I have done it”. And make all mistakes. Does not matter. Treat them like children and then they will be all right. They are men after all.

Sahaja Yogini: Shri Mataji, by astrology he has his Saturn on my side.

Shri Mataji: Ah?

Sahaja Yogini: Astrology. He has his Saturn on my side. I have this constellation quite often in my life.

Shri Mataji: What is astrology?

Sahaja Yogi: There is a connection between Saturn and the sun. And I mean, I have that seven times in my life so it must mean something to me. I had this with Gregoire. I had my Saturn on his sun. I just couldn’t accept what he said. Till I discovered and worked it out. I said, “OK it’s not his fault. I just can’t accept what he says”. [UNCLEAR].

Sahaja Yogi: What about you?

Shri Mataji: What did she say?

Sahaja Yogini: I said I had this Saturn and sun connection together with Gregoire. I had my Saturn on his sun. So I just could not accept what he did. I had so many [UNCLEAR/fights] with him. Because I just could not accept what he did. And when I knew when astrology I thought, “OK, my fault I will work it out”. It took me a year to get rid of it. It was just my problem that I could not accept what he did.

I have the same thing with Kerry, but he is settled on my sun, so it not easy to…

Shri Mataji: Why do you believe in all this nonsense? I don’t believe in it at all. All nonsense. On this, you have based? Is all nonsense and the nonsense. After Sahaja Yoga, all your stars change.

Sahaja Yogini: Yes, this is what I thought.

Shri Mataji: Yes it has to. Now I don’t believe in all that type of nonsense. See now, I was born under what they call it – Aries and the Pisces. And I don’t have both the qualities.

Sahaja Yogini: I think you have all the qualities.

Shri Mataji: What is that?

Sahaja Yogini: I think you have all the qualities, Mother.

Shri Mataji: What I am saying is that it is all nonsense. You have to be born sometime, isn’t it?

Whether you are Adishakti or anything, you have to be born at a point. Just, as a joke. And you have to take it so seriously. It is a joke, everything is a joke. If you don’t know how to enjoy life then nobody can make you enjoy it. See, try to enjoy. This is not proper.

Gregoire’s what? What Gregoire comes in here?

Sahaja Yogi: I don’t know Mother.

Sahaja Yogini: Oh just, I have caused him many troubles.

Shri Mataji: You have caused him? Because what? Because of stars?

Sahaja Yogini: Because I didn’t like many things he said. It was of course not his fault.

Shri Mataji: See Gregoire is like a child. You don’t know. Really another child.

If he sees like this, Me suffering, he would be crying. He would cry. Immediately. That is why always tell him that, “You get out from Me”. Can’t bear. He can’t see Me suffer.

Now you are in Sahaja Yoga, all right? That you accept or no?

Sahaja Yogini: Yes.

Shri Mataji: And you have come here for seeking the truth. And for your benevolence. All right?

And you are in My body.

Now if you suffer or children suffer, I suffer. But suffering is just mental.

Take a position that supposing you had a husband who was earning much more than you are earning. Take a position like that. And if he had said all these things to you, would you have been happy with him?

Sahaja Yogini: It is not the question of money.

Shri Mataji: That is true. Actually, even if My husband once says that I will have nothing to do with him. It hurts your self-respect. I think I thought that Gary is a gentle person.

Sahaja Yogini: Not at home. Shri Mataji, not at home. Just in collectivity. He is so different at home, he is completely different.

Shri Mataji: What do you say, yes or no?

Sahaja Yogi: No.

Shri Mataji: Ah?

Sahaja Yogi: No Shri Mataji.

Shri Mataji: Definitely not? You are gentle, very gentle with her?

Sahaja Yogini: He just goes out of the room. There is, of course, no marriage relationship for, [UNCLEAR] years because he is just absent.

Shri Mataji: That [UNCLEAR] to you, I know that.

Sahaja Yogi: I do what I can, Shri Mataji. I only can do what I can. I try.

Shri Mataji: Gary but you are like that, I know that. You get into that state of mind and you really become funny.

All right, let it be. Let us separate you both. If she likes it that way, she can see the children. No question. If he likes it that way he can see the children. No question of telling her anything and she telling you anything. Let us see how it works out. If she is happy. All right?

May God Bless You.

All right, don’t cry. Children get upset. All right. It is the wrong thing also. Just to suddenly get into a mood of, sort of, “I can’t work out things”.

Sahaja Yogi: Shri Mataji, nobody should give up.

Shri Mataji: Give up. That is right. You see, that is not proper. That’s his, I know his habit.

Sahaja Yogi: I don’t know. Maybe he is avoiding to fight with each other.

Shri Mataji: There is no fight in that. You see, there must be some way, a gentle way of dealing with things. Must be a reason to do this. Also, I tell you, when a man is earning, he expects a kind of facility. Always. In the same way, if a wife is earning more, she might be expecting also. I don’t know human nature as it is. [UNCLEAR].

But if I was earning I would feel very happy that I could give lots of presents. It is all right. If I had money I think I should buy this one for that and all. Nothing else. Money has no other meaning. That is all. I feel happy now I can do this for that person. I can buy this for that person. That is all.

I never buy anything for Myself, you will be surprised. Never. And it is very difficult. And I try, try telling Me I must buy something. You know, I never ask C.P. to buy anything. Never. And he used to go and buy things on his own. And you know he has no sense at all. Because he would buy Me a sari which a bride should wear – a sixteen-year-old. I am such an old woman, he would buy such a sari. “You must wear”. Even My daughters used to laugh at him. He would buy a Japanese kimono for Me. Where am I going to use that?

But I never showed that him. But My daughters used to laugh, “what are you…”. And he always very angry because I never used to ask. Even the daughters would say, “Daddy you are going out, buy this for us”. I would never. Never ask.

So one day he was so annoyed. We were in Switzerland. He saw some Sahaja Yogini asking her husband to buy something for her. He said, “See, she also does that. You never ask me anything”. I said, “Baba, what to ask? Now, what should I buy?”. So I said, “All right. Buy Me a polaroid camera”. Because if I ask for something small he would be angry. So immediately he went and bought it. That is the only thing I have asked in all his life. And I don’t know where it is.

But you see, all these small, small things you know. The fight is like this – a small kind of fight. Like he will spend money on Me, buy something. See he went to Egypt; he bought a scarf for Me. He bought it for twenty-four pounds you see. I looked at it, it is “Made in India”. I did not know what to say. He said, “Why, what happened?”. I said, “No, no, very good. Very good”. Because if I tell him that this is made in India, you can get it for three rupees…So, if you become like that, like Me, then the other party becomes different. I have seen it. You have to change. Then it changes.

Like, I don’t know – Ganpatipule, four years back or five years back. He went and bought a sari for Me. For forty-five thousand rupees. Can you imagine? He brought a sari. And showed it to Me. And I know the prices of things. Wah, so much money is wasted. Now, what to do. He said, “All right. You better wear for today’s puja”. If you see Me, I was walking like a soldier wearing all the steel dresses you see. Once and for all I wore that sari. Once only. Then I kept back. He said, “How did you like it?”. “ Very good, very good”.

I did not say it was too much expensive. Why should you have got such an expensive thing? But what to say now? It would be like, “See now, you don’t like what I buy for you”. So I kept the sari. Then My nephew told Me he went with him to buy the sari. So he went and told the shopkeeper, “Give me the most expensive one you have”. So the shopkeepers knew somebody has come like that without much of [UNCLEAR/distraction]. They brought this sari out. So he took it out in the sun, “I don’t know if I like this colour”, this and that. He spent three hours buying that sari you see. Then they showed him, this, that, this, that.

Supposing I had said that I don’t like this sari. Then how hurt he would have felt. Though I felt that forty-five thousand rupees in those days were, unnecessary. You see, we have no expense both of us. We have no expense. And he is paid such a lot. So he didn’t know what to do. He leaves all his money to Me. I mean, we have accounts together. Now when he went, he left all this money to Me – I am wasting all this money on this Cabella and everything, nothing. Never says anything to Me.

He is very happy if I tell him. He likes, he likes Me to give presents to all the people. He likes all that. But the quarrel is like this only, going on. Like, say, we go to a restaurant. Then he will say, tip two pounds. I will say, “Two pounds is nothing, poor fellow, give him four pounds”. “Why do you want to give him four pounds? You give him four pounds. All right, you don’t give, I will give five pounds”. That is such sweet relationships.

But for this, a wife has to be sensible and clever. Only she can manage. You see, we had lots of properties. My husband had lots of properties. But when we were married, they were not cashed, so he did not have much cash. But I managed with whatever I had and I did not ask My father, brother, anyone. And he always tells everyone that, She is very self-respecting. She never asked me. I said, “Nothing self-respect, I never needed anything. What is there, self-respecting or anything?”.

So, one should not try to pressurise anyone by your goodness also. One should never say you are good. Always says, “No, I am nowhere compared to you”. That is the sign of goodness.

If I all the time tell you, “I am Adishakti, you are nothing” you all will be [UNCLEAR]. Why should I stoop down to your level? I can say like that. Then what would happen? Sanjana wouldn’t work. Nobody will sit next to Me. They will all run away. Only with the candles, I would have to sit. So that is what it is.

You see, greatness is in being humble. In giving, in sacrificing. There is no sacrifice. It is so enjoyable. So enjoyable. That is the sign of a saint, always.

They told Me in Cabella there is going to be a second summer known as Saint Martin’s summer. I said, “Why?”. They said there was once a man walking without many clothes on him. And there is Saint Martin, going that way – he had a coat and everything. He took out his coat and gave it to that man. And he was Christ Himself you see. So Christ said, “You will never have…this time you will have another summer”. He granted that. You see. That is the sign of a saint. He took out his coat and gave it.

There is one saint who was trying to save a scorpion which was falling in the water. Every time he brought back the scorpion, the scorpion used to bite. Then again the scorpion used to slip down. Then again he would pick it up. Again it would bite. Again he would. Then one man told him, “Why are you trying to save that scorpion who is biting you?”. He said, “See now. The scorpion is not giving up his nature, why should I give up mine?”.

So we have to think of noble things. And not ignoble things.

That was over now. That life is over.

Now you have entered into the Kingdom of God.

He has nothing but blessings and blessings and blessings.

Otherwise, everything will be there in the ocean of joy and you will be unhappy.

Must understand the nobler ways of life. And that is most enjoyable, I tell you.

I don’t know but I enjoy the most when I give presents to people, look after them, cook for them. That is the most enjoyable time. What does it matter if I have no proper sari? What is it? Doesn’t matter. Without asking for it, you are pouring upon Me, saris after saris after saris. They will be all sent to your ashrams now to be used for decorating. So many. Not even using them. But nobody listens to Me.

It is a thing of a life which is higher, which is nobler. Which is greater, which is joy-giving. Because, like a light, you see. A light, first it is not enlightened, so it requires light. But when it gets the light it should give light shouldn’t it. If it doesn’t absorb light then why should it give light anymore?

But I tell you, in the West, I do not blame because you have not had any idea of a nobler life, isn’t it? Nobody has talked about a noble life. Except for Christ? What is nobility? Also, Gary, you must understand. That the small things create good relations. Very, very small things.

You are talking about Gregoire, I will tell you Gregoire’s style is what. Once I went for buying something you know. And there I liked a sari very much. I did not buy, you know, because My habit is very miserly as far as Myself is concerned. Said, “Baba, it is too much for Me, I will not buy”. I went back. After six-seven months or so, there was some puja. And Gregoire brought the same sari. He bought after that to give it to Me. It just touched My heart. When I didn’t buy that, he just went and bought it and got it. Just touched My heart. I mean, it’s not the thing but the way he did it.

All these little, little things make such a difference. Just think what we can do to please the person. Just think like that. Just to make another one happy. Just think like that. Otherwise, what is it – you come into this world, live in this world and die. Just finished. Even small things, very, very, small things make a difference. Very small things.

But if we start thinking all the time how to hurt a person or how to exploit another person – if not so, then how to find faults with another person. Then you can never be joyous. Appreciate others. Try to appreciate the good points. And once you start appreciating the good points, you start rising higher yourself because you get those good points yourself. But if you start seeing to the bad points, you start getting the bad points yourself. Isn’t it?

And the sign of greatness is that you become very humble.

When you say “Adishakti Ki Jai”, I just forget that I am Adishakti. I sometimes think I should join you. What is this Adishakti business? Doesn’t come into My head at all, what is that supposed to be. And it pays such dividends you see; I have so many children all over the world. You see, just to see Me you are so anxious. What do I give you? Nothing. Just to see Me you are so happy. Why? Because of My love isn’t it?

So, you have to love. I think you should get some of these pictures from Indian pictures. Like Shrikant and all that. You saw that isn’t it?

Sahaja Yogi: Yes, Shri Mataji.

Shri Mataji: Let these women see and see for themselves. I mean you should enjoy your virtues. But men are men. One must understand this also. You see, they are, whatever it is – they are a different type from us. Many things we feel so much about they don’t feel. And many things they feel about, we don’t feel. We should understand this.

Like we went to see some film. I bought the tickets. I went to see it. And the film was so funny, you know, with My two daughters – we left in just ten minutes. And at home, we came and he was just bombarding you know. He said, “What a film to go to, the girls sitting there. Such an embarrassment”, this that. I just kept quiet. I said, “Let it be”. Then he went out to let out his temper. We had a big garden, you know, in front of those flats. And we were watching them. My daughters got a fright you know. I said, “Just now let it be. Let the air flow out a little bit”.

Then I went out. I started walking towards the sea. So he just followed, “Where are you going?”. I said, “Wherever I am going, I don’t know”. “Where are you going?”. “I “I don’t know”. “You don’t know”. “Yes I don’t know, so what? I did not know what sort of film it was. So why were you angry about that? My father didn’t make it, My brother didn’t make it? So why were you angry with Me? How would I have known what sort of a film it was?”. Immediately he said, “OK”.

You see, you must know how to handle a situation. Men have to get angry. If they don’t get angry they are not men. Because supposing, a man has to get angry with somebody else, they will get two slaps on the face. But with the wife, it is all right, because you know, safe to take it out with the wife. Wife is the mother. Absorbs everything, like the Mother Earth. You see, so for the wife, it is easy to take it out. I know whenever he comes and starts shouting, I know something is gone wrong in the office or he is angry and quarrels. He shouts, shouts, shouts, then he goes.

He is not a Sahaja Yogi. That is another point. If he was a Sahaja Yogi that could have been different. I would have told him to meditate.

See life, it depends on you. How you will make it interesting and nice. And I think it is more the wife who does it and not the man.

Your elder daughter is quite big and she must go to some school.

Sahaja Yogini: No, no, I would like to send her.

Shri Mataji: She is seven I was told.

Sahaja Yogini: Six years.

Shri Mataji: She is very sensible. Now between you two fighting, that poor child will suffer.

You better send her to some school or to India.

Sahaja Yogini: We would like to send her to India.

Shri Mataji: If you have money problems, they will give you a concession also, I think so. But save the child. She is such a sensible child.

Sahaja Yogini: Should we send her now or wait until [UNCLEAR].

Shri Mataji: I have no idea what is happening because I told Yogi one thing, that unless and until you furnish the house properly, I will not allow any child to be there. So he is gone now to Gujarat. He telephoned to Me and I will ask him now what is the situation.

No, whenever you send the children it will be all right. There are people. They will look after them. Now they are coming down to Shere (?). It is very cold there. So when they come to Shere you can send the child there.

But he was also pestered very much. First of all, everybody forced him, “You must have a school, you must have a school”. And within three months, poor fellow he had to arrange everything. So naturally, you see, whatever was possible, he did. And he got the furniture made. And you see, if you ask somebody in an emergency, everything is so expensive and difficult. And he had to advertise for a teacher, professor, this, that – so much he did. And he brought a teacher there, headmistress there, headmaster, everything he did.

All that he did and in that what does he get? Because of this Mr Marcus. Because Marcus wanted to get over this house. Just imagine. He is so frustrated now. What did he get? And people said he is making money and all that. Why should he make money? He is a multi-millionaire. People have no idea how much money he has. Why should a multi-millionaire make a hundred rupees here and hundred rupees there? It is absurd. He is such a social-minded fellow. He wants to do – his own daughter is there. What this Marcus has done? He can purchase ten Marcuses.

Now he is gone to Sankheda to buy furniture for the children. Because I told him I will not allow children to stay there unless and until they are made absolutely comfortable. But we are not going to make a five-star hotel there for the children. Moreover, Sahaja Yogis must understand that they should not interfere in the school at all. Nicely, mothers going there, staying there nicely. You see that is not allowed. Which school allows that kind of a thing.

You know Anand? He was in a Doon school where they take four times more money. And he had a boy who was a homosexual from some other country. So he told his father. He couldn’t tell the teacher; he was rather shy. So they told him, “You take away the child from here. Why did he not tell us?”. So now they had to remove him. Even this much interference they don’t like.

There are many who want to join the school. There is such a dearth of schools everywhere, even in India. Such a dearth of schools. And see how children are progressing now. If you want the well-being of your children, you will not go and interfere with the school. This time I am not going to allow anyone of you to go and disturb the school. There will be rules and regulations by which you have to abide. Don’t try to torture the teachers. They used to, the first month, wanted to give up.

The children were also very bad. When the children came to the first time, this thing, Prathisthan they told Me, “Mother we don’t want to study”. The whole conference came to Me to say, “Mother we don’t want to study”. I said, “Then why are you here? What are you doing? If you don’t want to study why are you here. Go back home”. “No, no, we don’t want to go back home”. “Then you better study”.

Rajesh was going to take an interest in the school. Thank God, his [UNCLEAR] did not bother. And of all the things I was taking money out of the school. Just imagine. Can you believe such things? This Marcus. He is a thief and he thinks everybody is a thief. And a cheat and a liar.

I would suggest that see, one must learn to introspect. And write it down every day – what noble work I have done. These are the punyas.

If a saint cannot be noble, what should be a saint?

Gary, you must help Me in that. You see, I don’t like your behaviour this way. That you become just like a stone. He told Me you had just become like a stone. Gabe. Wouldn’t talk to her, wouldn’t touch her, wouldn’t look at her. I mean that is how you put down somebody. That is also a big insult for a woman. You must also understand a woman’s point of view.

Women like that they should be liked loved and cared for. And wanted. Otherwise, why should they marry? Marrying a husband is a headache otherwise, isn’t it? So this is wrong. He just decided about Kate. He never even touched her. Can you imagine this man? As she is a [UNCLEAR/steal?]. And now, is she a [UNCLEAR/steal?]. This also a man’s nonsense they do.

I don’t say men should become women. But men should after Sahaja Yoga, understand women. It is nice. If you understand women then you can make your life happy. What is the need of a wife you must know. And the wife must know what is the need of a man. Then you can make a very happy married life. There is nothing to make as such, you see – it is so spontaneous.

What you lack is wisdom. That is why the marriage has failed. We in India, in India we seldom have a divorce, no question. I mean anybody is divorced – we never go to that person, never meet that person. It is regarded as inauspicious, very bad.

Sahaja Yogi: Divorce is a very, very bad thing.

Shri Mataji: While in Islam it is allowed, still. Still. It is there in India, very much. But supposing the situation is very, very bad then I Myself say, “Divorce”. But here three children are involved, this thing, that thing, and I did not find anything very special. She is already a mother.

Sahaja Yogi: Many times.

Shri Mataji: You are proud of her but what of your wife. When you will be proud of your wife then everything will be all right. All right? You separate and see. Let us see what happens.

Now, what is the next topic that Pam is needing? Should see her.

Sahaja Yogi: No, she is not here.

Another Sahaja Yogi: She is not yet here.

Shri Mataji: You tell her that she should be out of Sahaja Yoga because she is very possessed. And she should have nothing to do with us. She should keep out. She should not come till Mother tells her she is all right. She is absolutely a possessed woman. Yesterday it was stressful for Me.

Sahaja Yogi: Yes Shri Mataji. That is another case that is come in.

Shri Mataji: Another craze coming?

Sahaja Yogi: No, that is not it. I…

[Sounds of children].

Another Sahaja Yogi: They are happy She is here.

Shri Mataji: Oh, what a flower. I know that one. It is African, isn’t it?

May God Bless You. Beautiful. Very unique. Just see. Look at that. Look at that. We have to learn a lot. See, they live so, for such a short time. If they don’t have fragrance, they have beauty, they have the magic about them. Isn’t it? See how they are. They grow in Africa. Yes. How soft they are. Just see. Beautiful.

Sahaja Yogi: Mother, the flower is thy mother.

Shri Mataji: All right. May God Bless You. It is beautiful.

Sahaja Yogi: Shri Mataji that is the last case.

Shri Mataji: What?

Sahaja Yogi: He has a small difficulty in…

[A Sahaja Yogi is explaining his problem in German].

Shri Mataji: In what?

Sahaja Yogi: At home, I have experience [UNCLEAR].

Shri Mataji (to another Sahaja Yogi): You tell Me. He is in thoughtless awareness.

Sahaja Yogi: Yes, I come to the, to the…

[Narrator switches to German language and another Sahaja Yogi translates into English].

Sahaja Yogi: He had an experience three years ago. He came home. It was about midnight and his parents weren’t home. It was after a celebration with the whole family. Before, he has been on the Shri Mahakali puja with You. Then he went into the kitchen. Suddenly he felt that something went into his left channel.

He felt that something went into his left guna. Since then he feels very heavy heartbeat, very fast. He just wanted to get something to eat out of the fridge. Then he felt this must be something negative has happened to him. And he thought that he is possessed now.

Shri Mataji: Possessed, but is that so?

Sahaja Yogi: Now he found out.

Shri Mataji: What did he find out?

Sahaja Yogi: That he had some problems with his mother.

Shri Mataji: What sort of problems?

Sahaja Yogi: He thinks that he was not nice enough to her.

Shri Mataji: It started after that?

Sahaja Yogi: Before.

Shri Mataji: Did he improve?

Sahaja Yogi: He became better. Now his problem is if he wants to swallow [UNCLEAR], sometimes it does not work out properly. He feels that he sometimes doesn’t get air anymore, he cannot breathe anymore. Like somebody taking…

Shri Mataji: The throat or…?

Sahaja Yogi: For him, it is just a feeling inside he says. He knows…

Shri Mataji: First of all he must wear an undershirt. Why doesn’t he wear an undershirt? This is one of the reasons.

Sahaja Yogi: [UNCLEAR]. Just this time.

Shri Mataji: All the time? Does he wear an undershirt? All the time? Full undershirt?

Sahaja Yogi: He is saying it is too small. Normally he is wearing it all the time. But this one is from India. It is quite short, just up to here. But he wears.

Shri Mataji: But you should wear a proper one. You see also, sometimes if you don’t wear a proper one what happens is you perspire. Then you perspire and it is not absorbed. Then air or anything, you can get this trouble all the time if you don’t wear a proper undershirt. You must always wear proper undershirt. That protects, but in any case, I will see him.

[Continuing after a break].

See sometimes, my axis is good because then you start working it out. You should have faith in yourself.

Sahaja Yogi: Shri Mataji, there is one man who has to thank you. He was here last year and he had some troubles with arthritis and something. He is very happy now and it has worked out very well and he wants to thank You.

Shri Mataji: May God Bless Him.

Sahaja Yogi: You remember him?

Shri Mataji: Yes, of course.

Sahaja Yogi: He had the problems with the fingers.

Shri Mataji: Yes, must have cleared out.

Sahaja Yogi: Yes, okay. “That I want to thank you very much. I had a very stressful situation at home. The whole family is very happy and everything is settled. Thank you”.

Shri Mataji: May God Bless Him.

Sahaja Yogi: He is a happy practioner, Mataji.

Another Sahaja Yogi: This one is happy too.

Shri Mataji: Your left Vishuddhi was catching.

Sahaja Yogi: Shri Mataji, she is the wife of Ramesh from India. Ramesh, whom you have given realisation. Ramesh is her husband.

Shri Mataji: Ramesh?

Sahaja Yogini: Forgive me for asking you, [UNCLEAR] problem of my husband [UNCLEAR] which I should be dealing myself.

Shri Mataji: Loudly, I can’t hear you.

Sahaja Yogini: I said forgive me for what I am asking. For I feel I should know how to solve it by myself.

Shri Mataji: Who Ramesh?

Sahaja Yogini: I think You don’t remember, You met him in India.

Shri Mataji: In where?

Sahaja Yogini: In India. In Pune. You asked him to come. I think it was two years ago now. Arora.

Shri Mataji: Arora?

Sahaja Yogini: Yes.

Sahaja Yogi: Arora.

Shri Mataji: In Pune?

Sahaja Yogini: Yes.

Shri Mataji: He is from Pune?

Sahaja Yogini: No, he is from Bombay. I mean, he is from Punjab but he is born in Bombay.

Shri Mataji: He is wearing a beard?

Sahaja Yogini: No, no he is not a Sardarji.

Shri Mataji: Then?

Sahaja Yogini: He is a very, very nice person. We had been living in India for ten years. Married for seventeen years and he is a really very nice fellow.

Shri Mataji: What year you were married?

Sahaja Yogini: Seventy-two?

Shri Mataji: Then what happened?

Sahaja Yogi: She just wants to know – their business does not work out at all. And what she wants to know if it is her fault because she is a left Nabhi, she is a Laxmi or what she can do against it.

Shri Mataji: So where is he?

Sahaja Yogini: India. In Bombay. He keeps going up and down. He is trying very hard to make…

Shri Mataji (to Sahaja Yogi): You better tell what is the situation.

Sahaja Yogi: He is now in Bombay at the moment. And he is always going from here to Bombay, from here to work out his business but it doesn’t work out.

Shri Mataji: What business?

Sahaja Yogini: Import-export. He is trying to do import-export.

Shri Mataji: What?

Sahaja Yogini: Oh, all sort of things. Garments. He tried all sorts of things. And he tried also. Of course, he may be a bit lazy, but in India, he was doing very well. He is actually quite well known over there, doing well, very nice person. And then when he came here, he saw also it was probably easier here. He also wanted the children to grow up here. But it was probably not right. Doesn’t yet work out and [UNCLEAR/being his] wife you know, what I can do to help.

Shri Mataji: You see, you must find out what the Austrians like. What they would like to have.

Sahaja Yogini: He saw all that…

Shri Mataji: You see, whatever is Indian is not necessarily can be sold. That is one point people don’t understand in India. You see, if they sell elephants, they will send thirty elephants. Who is going to sell thirty elephants here? Like that. And India sells, for example, saris. Who is going to buy saris? And you should find out what he cannot. You should help.

You can find out what he can bring from there that will be appreciated by Austrians. Because you know better than him. You see, Indians cannot do this. I have seen this. They are very stupid in this matter. They bring things what Indians will like.

Sahaja Yogini: Well in his case, that is not the case. He has brought the things that are already being made for export and are being exported to Australia, to a lot of places. But somehow, here he has not been able to get an order, which will make anything to…

Shri Mataji: Must be this. You must find out what things they like here. For example, this is a rather, very prosaic country, I must say. They are very right-sided people. And they would like to say, things made of wood, something of that kind.

Like there was one fellow who exported wood toys. Which were not painted, nothing, just wood. Once they are not painted they are even cheaper also. So just exported wood as it is, you see, just nose here, ears here, like that. But no painting you see. And it sold like hot cakes.

You see, the Western mind must be understood. There is a very tremendous difference between the two. Like, I told them, “Don’t make anything out of cement; the Sahaja Yogis won’t like it”. The said, “Mother, why do you want to punish them?”. They think if they don’t make anything out of cement, then you will be at a punishment.

You see, Indian mind is very different and now I see all those things very clearly. What is happening is that you have had so much of cement, so much of these things that now you want to go to huts.

Sahaja Yogi: In India, at least. Here it will be cold.

Shri Mataji: Cold. There will be a fight, a regular fight. You don’t know what Rajesh once was saying to Me. “Mother what is this? This is made in Ganpatipule, out of stones. What will they think?”. I said, “You don’t know Rajesh, I have [UNCLEAR/bonded] with them – I know what they want”.

Now, this Cabella. You know in the big hall, they have got those stones in the centre. And they go up on the staircase, same ones. I was thinking of putting it properly and putting some sort of a carpet on it to make it look nice. But the marble man came to deliver the marble and he was, “Ha! The stones are there”.

For him, it was such a thing. Because there you do not get a stone anywhere which is made for this type of thing. See, it is so expensive. So for him, he was so enamoured. But I tell you C.P. will come and he will say, “This is for horses or what?”.

So the difference is I would say that if she goes, she will understand it better, not him. You see, he might be…Czechoslovakia is different – a few things you can export, also you can export to Russia and all that. You see Eastern bloc is different. But countries which are Western countries, which are developed countries – they are very right-sided. First of all, they don’t like any colours. Anything a little more is fussy to them. You see, very grey or something they like.

I know their tastes are…Now see, Belgium we went. Shops were closed, she said there were very good carpets. Very good carpets. Such thick carpets you get in India and nobody would buy. Because it is not the thickness of the carpet that makes a good carpet isn’t it? Even Iranians won’t buy it. But you see for them thick carpet is something great. And you can get it for a song in India. Thick carpet. Any amount.

This I discovered there only. And the prices he was telling were so high, I said, “Baba, what is this?”. But carpet – those who make carpets, if you ask them, is how much?

Sahaja Yogi: Knots.

Shri Mataji: Knots there are in a carpet are very important. But in a thick carpet, there are very few knots. But to them, thick carpet is something – they don’t know no? They don’t understand carpets. Same about furniture, about everything – I have seen this sort of becoming, day by day it is becoming extremely simple things. The dress also is very, very simple they like. White. White or black. There is no other colour.

So, one should understand the taste of the people, what they want. And then buy it. Like, I told her to buy these semi-precious stones from Jaipur. That sold out. They will like anything natural. Anything natural they will like. Anything natural. That is what they are. You should understand their taste.

For example, in India, terelyne and cotton or terelyne and wool is much more expensive than wool and cotton. It is true.

May God Bless You.

So this must be the reason. There is no other reason for [UNCLEAR/sure]. You see, the things that he brings here should have an appeal for the people.

That – Italy is different. Italy is very different. Colourless people they are. Colourless. Want to live in huts. That the situation is. You know in Cabella? Top floor. Have you seen the top floor?

Sahaja Yogi: No, Mother. We have not seen it.

Shri Mataji: It is absolutely, what you call, rustic. Absolutely rustic. They have those old round things there and all that you know. And everybody, “Ahh”. Very happy. I am going to keep it as it is.

Sahaja Yogi: A little bit of repair. A little bit of repair is necessary to [UNCLEAR].

Shri Mataji: No, no they don’t like it. The other day we bought it. [UNCLEAR/Shashi/Rishi] have you got that? We bought that, I told you, the modern painting.

Sahaja Yogi: Yes, Mother. Its [UNCLEAR/carpets?].

Shri Mataji: They are not carpets. They are just, I don’t know what to say. But they are out of the waste you see. They have made some sort of an assemblage. But I tell you, people – if you put them up on the walls, they will say, “Ahhhh, ha, ha”.

One should understand that this is the situation now, is here. That is how the business is going to work out.

Except for Sahaja Yogis, you will not find anybody wearing any coloured clothes at all. Or maybe [UNCLEAR] or something. We went to – even Czechkoslovia was surprising. Czechoslovakia also which is a country which is just now opening itself, jeans and funny dresses are much more expensive. And normal dresses are very cheap. But jeans are – I saw the prices of jeans and funny types of dresses.

Sahaja Yogi: From America.

Shri Mataji: Funny, funny things on them. They are very expensive. And nice woollen things, absolutely nice, you see are absolutely out of fashion. They are out of fashion. And most of them, Czechkoslovakains are wearing jeans and jean things on top. Even old ladies. There is a kind of complex in their head that we should be, up to date, you see. Up to date means torn clothes.

In Finland, one girl came to see Me. Torn here, torn there. All torn here. I said, “What’s the thing? What do you do?”. She is the manager of some sort of thing. “Manager? And you wear torn clothes?”. “I am very up to date, Mother”.

In India, up to date means a man who is very immaculately dressed. But here up to date is very different. Fashionable means the same thing. Little dandyish is fashionable in India. But here fashionable means which is worn by many. So this must be the reason I tell you.

Germans are even worse than Austrians in their appreciation of things. When Gregoire saw Indian culture, Indian way [break in recording]…Tumblers without even a scratch on it. They think that is elegant you see. That is their idea. I was saying now you shave off your noses and your ears and everything will become elegant.

The idea of elegance is funny. Such a big collection of things you know; not one piece had any spot on it. So I thought if this kind of thing goes on in the West, artists will stop producing anything and you will not have anything. And why don’t we have Rembrandt now and why don’t we have other people? The reason is this is how it started. Criticism and also going for something bland.

Insensitivity. Insensitivity to colour, to taste, to everything. And then criticise. It is too much. Of course, they will say the Persian carpet is very good, no doubt. But they will not buy. They will buy those daris (cotton flat-woven carpet or rug) made in India.

Sahaja Yogi: Daris. That is right.

Shri Mataji: Made in India. Or Nepal.

Sahaja Yogi: It is very expensive Shri Mataji.

Shri Mataji: Daris.

Sahaja Yogi: Persian carpet is very expensive.

Shri Mataji: You better do daris. In India, you get them for a song. Tell your husband, dari.

Sahaja Yogini: I will tell him.

Shri Mataji: Yes, yes. They like all such things. Insipid, absolutely useless things.

Sahaja Yogini: And he is very discouraged by now. After eight years of no success.

Shri Mataji: No let him bring some daris from there, show them around and he will get orders.

I was so much worried about that hall that how does it look so shabby and in shambles. And everybody said, “Aha”.

Sahaja Yogi: Which was it, Shri Mataji?

Shri Mataji: In Cabella.

Sahaja Yogi: Ah, Cabella.

Shri Mataji: You go and see on the top, no? So I am going to keep it as it is for them. But, see rustic is also rustic – but it is in shambles, really. Even in India, rustic would be very decorative. Very. You see Rajasthan you go, you see a painting, something on the walls. It is beautiful. [UNCLEAR] rustic means which is very dilapidated, old.

When we were buying for London or someplace. So we went and saw many places. So these English also are – there was one place near a brook; a dirty brook it was. And that was thirty-six acres of land. And in England, nobody even goes even if you have a half-acre. See it is always raining there. Thirty-six acres, what are you going to do there?

And the house, it was submerged halfway like that. I mean, anybody with six feet cannot walk in, so low. You had to bend and this and that. It’s a funny type. They said, “Mother it has character”. I said, “What character? Crooked? This is a crooked house. What is the character? Where will you do meditation? Such a thing. Half of you cannot go there. You have to cut your legs”. Still, they were so insistent on that house because it has character. Nice to look at, or paint at the most. But to live in is impossible.

But when I saw this Shudy Camps – you know what Shudy Camps is. I saw this place, I saw the potential of it. I wanted to buy. So these English never liked it. You see, I was buying such a traditional home. So they made a big list of things – this house has got this defect, this defect, this defect. And gave it to C.P. because he will influence Me.

He said, “Why do you want to buy such a house. I won’t even touch it with a barge pole”. He is a shipping man, na – “with a barge pole”. I said, “It is not a ship to touch with a barge pole. Forget it, I am going to buy it”. “You decided?”. I said, “I have decided”. “Then what are the Saabs saying?”. “Saab” means Englishmen in India.

“What are the Saabs saying?”. I said, “Saabs are all right. I know their style.” Then I told him about the house they want to buy. He said, “Really?”. I said, “Yes. Would to like to allow Me to buy that?”. He just kept quiet. I said, “You can’t enter in. Six feet. The doors are about five feet”. He said, “Really? What is the height of the…?”. I said, “About six feet”. “Then I can’t even walk there”. I said, “Yes. Character”.

So perverted. One fellow got the first prize in England. An Indian photographer. You know what he had done? We go to those tars, tar, what you call asphalt. The tins of asphalt. And it was all taken away and it was all crumpled down. And he took a photograph of that and it got the first prize.

And they won’t take a photograph of you if you have a beautiful face. But if you are wrinkled, absolutely teeth are fallen off you see and you are from a lunatic asylum, they will take a photograph. And get the first prize.

This perversion is decadence you know, of the brains. They can’t appreciate anything beautiful. And everything there is, “This is too much. This is too much”. Because you see their brains are so complicated, they cannot see anything complicated outside. They want to have something simple. That is why. They want to avoid.

What to do with these complicated brains now? The whole art will finish off. Nothing can remain.

Sahaja Yogi: Shri Mataji, many people think like that and think that this is all nonsense. They don’t like it. But everyone is afraid to get up and say this is not art but nonsense. Because they think then they will be told that they don’t understand it also.

Shri Mataji: You see, I tell you, the greatest domination you have here, of the so-called intellectuals. They take out something out of their brains and people just start following it. I mean there is such slavery here. In India, nobody would care for a person like that.

See we are very finicky. They brought a fashion of a “mini-sari”. It came in Bombay for two-three days, just disappeared. Nothing doing. They all like traditional saris. Anybody tries any new tricks, nothing doing. We want traditional. We don’t accept you see, suddenly.

Anybody who tells somebody – “Oh, tell me another”. They would not. On the contrary, the thing is to keep to your position, to what you have been wearing. Now say my husband wears a type of a shoe. All his life he has worn that, and he will wear that. He won’t change. We don’t put to fashions and things like that.

And this is another – entrepreneurs. They make you dance like this, these intellectuals make you dance like this, this media makes you dance like this – I mean, you are all slaves. Indians don’t take to it. They don’t. Even if they are wearing western dresses, they go on wearing western. He wears a three-piece suit, he will wear a three-piece suit all his life. It is the identification, like a personality.

We go on changing, this today, tomorrow this. They will say, “Now you have beards”, you will have beards. They will say, “Now you have a moustache”, you will have a moustache. “Shave off”, you will shave off. “You shave off your head”, you will shave off your head. What is this?

Moreover, this thing should be finished at an age now. Say, you are about twenty-five years of age, you have decided what sort of dress you will have, finished. Do not waste your energy on that, isn’t it? But in this country, you can’t get also, whatever you want. Children, especially, they only have mod dresses. Even for a birthday party, these days children go in mod dresses.

But you see in India, what sort of dresses we have [UNCLEAR/sweet/stitched for] children. Even small children, we have a dhoti and a kurta. Stitched ones. See this what – West is becoming a waste. So insipid it is, really. Either they wear black or white. It is elegant.

Sahaja Yogini (in Marathi): Shri Mataji, would you like to have some food?

Shri Mataji (in Marathi): I will see upstairs. (Continuing in English) So we at least Sahaja Yogis should not bother about these things. We should dress up in a proper way, nicely, traditional dresses – should not bother about these things.

First, when the hippies came to India, you know, people felt in the market that they are very poor people. So they collected some fruits and all that and donated to them. Delhi you know. “Poor you know, so many poor people have come from abroad”. So they collected.

I mean, if you see to it, it is so stupid. A tradition comes to us, you see, by trial and error method. This is not good, this is suitable, this is not suitable. Then once you establish something, then why waste energy. But because of entrepreneurs. Their machines must work. It is like the devil you know, all the time eating up. So now, we must produce something new. So all the time they give new ideas. New fashions.

Like a fashion came where ladies had to wear tight jeans. Very, very tight jeans. It was such tight jeans that they took bath in the jeans, you see, it was like that. But I saw a funny thing that a lady was waiting with that kind of a tight thing for a bus. And the bus came, she could not get up.

Then came the baggy one, so now the baggy one. Then came the “holey” ones so holes. I mean every time they have such masses of clothes, masses of clothes. And never you get them in proper dresses. All shabby dresses. Nice traditional things you should have, use them properly and keep them properly. Be decent. Absolutely shocking sometimes.

Something new, something new and that is how they exhaust your money. You never have money also. Indians will always have some savings whatever it may be. He may be a beggar but he will have a saving. But here, today this dress has come – buy it. Tomorrow that dress has come; buy it. And just masses of things. Piles and piles of plastics. It is very surprising. It is better to have one good plate than a hundred plastic plates.

One one side they are living like gipsies because they have always food like a picnic sort. One side, gipsies. That is one side of life, like gipsies. And another side is playing into the hands of these entrepreneurs. They are just like jokers.

What about our own personality? The Indians are you see, their own way. They can’t understand many things. So when Sita and all these came to My house, there were two actresses, they were there. You have seen their drama. So they said, “Mother, see they are looking so nice in saris. So soft they are, so humble. We can never wear their dresses but see they are wearing our dresses”. I said, “How will you look in their dresses?”. “We will not look very good, I know, but still, look at their humility. They are wearing our dresses”.

But they don’t know. They like our dresses, that is why they wear them. Imagine Indian women wearing your dresses. How will they look like?

I am writing this book, Meta-Modernism. A book I started – about five-six chapters I have done. But now I am going to write about the slavery of democratic countries. This is what they call is up to date, this, that.

Now, can I take your leave now?

Sahaja Yogi: Shri Mataji.

Shri Mataji: All problems solved?

Sahaja Yogi: Yes.

[Applause].

Shri Mataji: In any case, I will talk to you about this case.

Sahaja Yogi: Yes, Shri Mataji. It is not important.

Another Sahaja Yogi: Shri Mataji, thank You very much. You accepted our invitation.

Shri Mataji: I had to come. You see the thing is, for Me, everything is destiny. Everything.

So, I never feel bad about anything or good about destiny. It is destiny, what can you do?

You have to be born on this Earth, you have to go this way, you have to get lost in Budapest, everything.

Sahaja Yogi: Hugo?

Shri Mataji: It is all destiny. It is all destiny. You cannot help it.

No, he remembers it always. Yesterday all the time he was saying, “I hope it is not going to be Budapest”.

So it is all destiny.

You are destined to be here.

You are destined to be in Sahaja Yoga.

Now, only know your destiny.

Do not try to get out of it.

All right?

Sahaja Yogis: Thank You. Thank You for Your coming Shri Mataji.

[UNCLEAR/ Shri Mataji making brief remarks to Sahaja Yogis while departing].

[End of recording].