Yogi: He says there must have been a state, in our lives where we were connected with this Power, how did we lose it?
Shri Mataji: We lost it long time back. That’s it. You were connected that’s true but, this Adam and Eve, that’s the point when we lost God. We had to take to this course of evolution. They wouldn’t accept, so we had to go through this long process.
Yogi: She says she’d like to know a little bit more about the left side of the body the feminine side, she has pain in that area.
Shri Mataji: You want to know everything today only is it? You will know everything all right. But there’s, for God, there is nothing like feminine and masculine. That’s our quarrel. The Power of God is the Feminine. Without the Feminine, God is just a Witness. So it’s like the moon and the moonlight. Do we differentiate between the two? It’s only human error that we differentiate like that. Between God and His Power there’s no differentiation.
So this problem of feminine and masculine is our mental problem. Comes from both sides. But after Sahaja Yoga you know what it is. It’s nothing, it’s just a myth. India we don’t have this problem, at all, much. Of course there are some men who are very oppressive and all that, but the girls are taught how to handle these men also. Because you see men are like children really, and women have to be, more deft in handling household because they are the preservers, they have to preserve the society, they are responsible for the society. There’s nothing wrong if a husband says do like this or do that. You see it’s all right just like a child, after all, doesn’t matter.
But the way things are now is, we don’t know how to handle them, and now we are lost a little bit. Doesn’t matter. In Sahaja Yoga you’ll learn everything. Such nice relations we have, beautiful families, beautiful children. You’ll be amazed to see this society. Once in a while of course there could be a divorce, once in a while there could be something wrong but mostly, mostly, they are wonderful people. Very loyal, very family loving, beautiful people. This problem gets solved because it’s out of ignorance, we feel that way. All right?
Yogi: [INAUDIBLE] the shakti power in…
Shri Mataji: No that’s, it’s now becoming a misnomer, shaktipath. You see it’s like a shaktipath has become like a, dead spirit being put into people. Shaktipath means a person who is powerful. Through her power or through his power, you can awaken the Kundalini, but it doesn’t happen like that. It’s always a spirit. They put a spirit on the person and the person starts, behaving like a mesmerized personality, gives away all his money, gives away everything, he suffers bodily. What about TM, you see now TM takes such a lot of money. That is one of the worst type of exploitation.
I came to know about it because the director of the TM, of the flying, academy, came to Me. It’s an absurd stuff and he, his wife, his deputy director and his daughter, all were suffering from severe type of epilepsy. Severe type. They got cured of course. Then they told Me the story, which was horrifying. This gentleman was a diamond merchant, and his wife was a granddaughter of a duke, very rich people. Because it came as the first thing to them, and big promises, they joined. So in the beginning so many people, even barristers in England, so many people joined them, thinking that something new is going to happen to them. And this happened, in such a manner that they were all enamored, by it. So first, they said they’ll be given mantras. They’d never heard the word of mantras or anything. Poor English you see, so many years they lived in India, they didn’t know the meaning of mantra also. I wish they had learnt something. Would have not been so much deceit, by these people. So they gave three mantras, one or the other, which were not Sanskrit, which were not mantras, and they paid three thousand pounds, at the gate, for these mantras. Three thousand pounds. And the mantras were inga, pinga, tinga. Now any Indian would know what it is nonsensical. It’s not Sanskrit. It’s something a local thing. Inga means the bite of a scorpion. Then pinga means when a person goes round and round, and tinga means, you show like this. Can you imagine paying three thousand?
All right, this was over. Then they said: ‘We can make you fly, about three feet higher than the ground’. I don’t know why should you fly at that level what is the use? In any case you’re flying. I mean if you want to fly you can fly anywhere in the world, but this three feet I didn’t understand. Already we had a jam on the road, and these three feet people flying there, what would have happened? So, I mean to English to be that stupid you know I can understand other people, but English. So many of them went to Switzerland in a remote place, and there, they were given some foam mattresses to jump on, with some mantras. They paid, they had to pay six thousand pounds, that time. And for six days they drank the water which had boiled the potatoes. Then the seventh day they ate the rind of the potatoes, and eighth day they were given the potatoes. For six thousand pounds. And they were jumping on these, foams, and they broke their bottoms many, and then they put a case against TM, and you’ll be amazed that TM has paid them.
So every time they started a new stuff like Rajneesh you see from one to another, so ultimately now they are on ayurveda. Now why should you have TM for that? If you want to have ayurveda anybody can have it directly. All these stupid things they are doing, and people go to them. Is absolutely wrong. First of all you must see, before going to any one of them, what is the achievement of a person who has been there? What did he gain? First thing. This is first test, and second is, why do they take money? They have collected billions and billions of pounds, and these Rolls Royces, I mean what is the interest of a saintly person in Rolls Royces tell Me? It is equal to the dust of his feet. This life I am sort of, born in a royal family and, married to a rich man and all that, and he has cars and this. But it makes no difference to Me what car I use where I sleep, I don’t have to seek any comfort, as long as there’s the comfort of My Spirit.
It’s very surprising that how you people really, fell into this trap. And the best part they would say: ‘But Mother, how could he tell us lies? Oh Indians are very good at that, don’t know. They have learnt it from English only. But very good at it. Telling lies is very easy for them. There are some who have to, at least tell hundred lies morning till evening otherwise they won’t eat their food, that time.
So what is there? ‘How could you be that naïve?’ That’s what I told them. So many have now become just recluses because, all were mesmerized, they were all possessed, in a very bad shape. They couldn’t even see a garlic, or a lemon. They shake. I don’t know what sort of spirits they are, possessed with. Of course these people are cured now. That fellow became bankrupt so he has gone to South Africa. His wife is also there. It’s a fact. He is writing a book. Somebody tried to kill him also. So one has to understand what do you want? And you are not to ask any questions just, you pay the money otherwise you can’t get it. This is what happened with religions also. They have become money-oriented or power-oriented, so they have deviated, from reality. I have to tell you the truth, because I am not here to collect anything from you, but to give you something substantial, that’s your own. What’s it you want to say?
Yogi: Other people such as Satyananda and Muktananda and Yogananda have all taught Kundalini techniques and initiated people into kriya yoga.
Shri Mataji: If you ask Me Muktanand better, there is a very big article on him better read it and you’ll be horrified, all of them. If you have got now see, once you get the Kundalini raising, then you don’t go into funny gestures and things. You become the most normal person and knowledgeable. You should know how to raise the Kundalini. You should know what are the chakras are, how they are working it. You have to become a Self-realized personality. Just because you brand something you don’t become anything. You must respect your…you must have self-esteem. What did you get out of it? Why are you retaining someone like that? Is important. Why should you stick onto someone? What have you got? Have you got powers to raise Kundalini? Can you feel the chakras of others? Can you feel your own chakras? That’s it. All right? So you should know your own powers. It’s no use talking about these people, because I have got so many people sick from them. I just don’t want to say but if you want I’ll send you all the articles, that are published now against them. Horrible ones. What they have done. Specially this… Nityanand was a realized soul. Muktananda.
Yogi: In that case are their techniques false?
Shri Mataji: What did he say?
Yogi: Are their techniques false?
Shri Mataji: [HINDI] They are false. They have no techniques, nothing. They just put a spirit in you. Simple as that. We call it as praitavidya, smashanavidya, means the knowledge of the dead. That’s what they do, mesmerize. Even your Charismatic is the same, and this Pentecostal is the same. Is all the same. What powers you get is the point. What did you get? I’m a Mother, so I’ll say: ‘My child, what did you get? All right.
May God bless. Thank you.
Shri Mataji: Who else is there, yes gentleman.
Yogi: How do you make the Kundalini stronger?
Shri Mataji: Ahh that’s a good question. First you’ll get your Realization, then you go to the collective, and the Kundalini will rise by itself and there are people, Sydney specially is a very good place, for becoming a master of Sahaja Yoga. It’s very good place. So we have already arranged they are very anxious, they’ll do it all free of charge. It’s not like one introduction is free and then come along give the money nothing of the kind. All free, they will work it out. They are not even aware, that they’re doing all…It’s all right for Me, but what about them? They are doing all this work for taking no money. These Sahaja Yogis are not even aware of that. I might be the only One, crazy One doing that, but what about them? They are so anxious to work it out. They know how to raise Kundalini they know how to strengthen Kundalini. They know how to detect your problems and they are there to help you, out and out. All right? May God bless you.
Yogi: What is the difference between Sahaja Yoga and the other meditations such as Buddhist meditation, TM?
Shri Mataji: You see the Buddhism meditation, is the meditation that was followed at the time of Buddha, all right? That time you had to renounce everything, and go to His stupas into places where to meditate. Now the time has come, that you have to get your Realization. That is how He prepared the Buddhists to get their Self-realization, all right. So that was the beginning. Every religion, every religion said you must pray, you must balance yourself, every religion wanted to do that. That is at that stage, all right? But now, you have to get your Self-realization for which you have worked. Because He has talked of the future Buddha known as Maitreya and also Bodhisattva So this state is there. So that meditation is just the, ladder to reach the state where you can get your Self-realization, all right. So nothing wrong with that, but you have to go further with it.
Yogi: Bhakti yoga?
Shri Mataji: You see bhakti also has no meaning without connection. What is the, supposing you have no connection on the telephone and you are telephoning. What’s the use? Bhakti is only possible when you are connected.
Yogi: He says there is a group of people he came into contact with in Canada that have … Shri Mataji: About who?
Yogi: … a guru and they go into meditation and leave the body.
Shri Mataji: That’s very wrong. Absolutely. Where is it described as meditation? It is the body is taken away by the spirit is a very wrong thing to do is very very wrong, absolutely. If your body is removed from your soul it’s very dangerous, it may not sometimes return. And you know in many countries the children are being taken away by spirits like that, specially in Switzerland. The children are sleeping in another room and suddenly they die. Nobody knows because, the spirit is taken away and the spirit is kept away like that. It’s a very bad thing to do is to remove the soul from the body. Instead of that you must give Realization to the person so that his soul is enlightened. It’s a very dangerous thing. Never try that trick. You see all those people who do like that, get into trouble, very much great trouble. I must warn you, because I had cases like that, all right. May God bless you.
Yogi: At what age is it good for a child to get Self-realization?
Shri Mataji: Any age. There’s nothing, no limits on age at all, any age. Even when the mother is pregnant they get Realization. There’s not age limit or anything.
Audience: On the diagram, there is fire, flames
Shri Mataji: No no it’s not fire.
Yogi: When if I meditate I get, a feeling as if I’m in the flames.
Shri Mataji: Oh that’s not…Then the meditation, something wrong. There’s something wrong with your meditation, definitely. It is just shown as your heart, and to show the warmth of the heart they have put that color it’s not fire, just the warmth of the heart. They had to show this color, just to show that it’s not…it’s on the contrary extremely cooling. In Sahaja Yoga when you will meditate, heart is the first thing that cools down. So the meditation you are doing, is in a way not correct, and you cannot do meditation, you have to be in meditation, that’s the point is.
So when the Kundalini rises She creates a state of thoughtless awareness. That is the state one has to achieve. Then you, are stationed in your present, not in the past or the future. I think you were not here yesterday I told about it, but in any case you come and see, just now only you will see you will have a very soothing feeling within yourself. So there is no fire at all. It’s a very, soothing flames, extremely soothing. In the Bible is written: ‘I’ll appear before you like tongues of flames.’ Now these tongues of flames if you see they are flames, look like flames but they are, very soothing, cooling. It’s just the opposite what we know of fire.
Yogi: How do you communicate with people who are bound by their dogma and belief?
Shri Mataji: Who are?
Yogi: … bound by dogma and belief. They are rigid in their beliefs.
Shri Mataji: See love can melt anything isn’t it? And there is a way. First you have to, logically talk to them. Divine logic is very convincing, but if somebody’s a stone, there is no need to break your head with the stone, but logically you can explain, and if they have dogmas they will melt, because you can ask them a simple question: ‘What did you get out of it? What powers did you get out of it? A simple question should be asked, and that’s how the dogmas will fall. But mostly it happens like this I’ve seen, if there are, many friends and, or family everybody gets to Sahaja Yoga and they see the way they are, then automatically they come. Mostly dogmas are fashions, so it’s a fashion, and these people who have dogmas are, people who do not seek truth. But once they see also, sometimes they come. But we cannot guarantee that everybody will be there. According to John, He just said hundred and forty-four thousand, we have already crossed that limit, so I don’t how many will be there. It’s a question of one’s own seeking and also, they have to deserve it, they should be worthy of it.
Yogi: Can Sahaja Yoga help someone with mental illness like schizophrenia?
Shri Mataji: Yes it has helped many. Schizophrenia is due to possessions, which comes and goes. It has helped many people. First the frequency starts, enlarging, and after some time We can get rid of it. It has helped many people I should say, specially in America so many people are suffering from schizophrenia. It can be epilepsy, schizophrenia, these two we have tried.
Yogi: There’s three questions here on meditation Shri Mataji, is there any special position or place to meditate?
Shri Mataji: No, nothing of the kind.
Yogi: How do you control the flow of thoughts as they keep flowing.
Shri Mataji: Yes that is what you don’t have to do your Kundalini will do it. Your Kundalini will create that situation for you, you don’t have to do it.
Audience: I have this friend with allergy problems, is there anything that you can base the chakras on [INAUDIBLE]
Shri Mataji: Yes it is curable. This is due to liver, it’s a liver problem, allergies are due to liver. But also it’s triggering from the left side and so it can be cured, we have cured that. It can be cured, all right? Some people take more time, and some people take less time, but I’ve seen most of them get cured, most of them. You may write to Me if you have any…
Audience: [INAUDIBLE] You were reported to have said homosexuals have problems with their brain…
Shri Mataji: Oh that point. Just be seated. I’ll explain to you. You see, now in My, this work I have been working for twenty-two years all right, and I didn’t know this homosexual business at all, because in India we don’t have this much. I mean at least if they have, is secret. We have never known I have never even heard it I never, on My ears and all My time in India I never did. First time I came to know about it in London I must confess that I was quite ignorant about it to that such a thing exists, all right? Then people started coming to Me who were homosexuals, and they told Me their problems, and I felt that there’s a kind of a possession on them, and that’s why the brain is under some pressure. But if that possession is removed, then they become very normal.
Shri Mataji: Just a minute. Yes that’s My experience I’m saying. That’s My experience. Just a minute. Just a minute. That pressure is definitely there in the hypothalamus no doubt. But it is also in a possession it happens. Because you see it was a thing I had to discover it was what sort of a thing it is. I’d never known a thing. I must admit I didn’t know this thing. Even in Medical College We never learnt in India, We didn’t know what it was like. All right so, this thing is there, with this kind of a thing and because I have tried with people. I must confess to you, that when [SOUNDS LIKE: Mem?] came to Sahaja Yoga I must confess, you see My, London, two years I stayed in London I saw all these things.
So then I tried to study her because she started wearing dress like a man and all that, and the relationship between the husband and wife was very strained. So I tried to study her because also she was Indian. I told her: ‘You tell Me everything frankly what has happened and all that. So she said ‘I don’t know but suddenly one day I started feeling that I should be like a man, and I wanted to be friendly with women, not with men,’ I said: ‘Really?’ ‘Yes suddenly it has happened to me, and now I cannot get over it. It’s just that feeling and I don’t know how to explain to my husband. It’s just I don’t want to have a man I want to have a girl.’ But I say: ‘What will you do with the girl?’ I couldn’t understand. She explained something to Me but I couldn’t understand. You see she explained to Me, all right. But then I tried on her, Sahaja Yoga. I must confess that it took lot of time, but it worked, and she became very normal, and she felt like a little girl.
Yogi: He wants to know a little more about what we mean by the Spirit and how that is related to our consciousness, and how the two things are linked by Self-realization?
Shri Mataji: It’s a good question. Spirit is the reflection of God Almighty within us. It’s said that, He has made human beings in His Own Image. Now we should not get confused with the word image. Image means the reflection. So we reflect God Almighty. We are not God but we reflect. Image is different from the actual thing. So now, when you are, as a human being, then the Spirit is just a witness in the heart watching you, and the seat of the God Almighty is here, and He is reflecting in human heart. He’s just watching, He’s a witness, He doesn’t come into your attention, He’s watching you.
But when Realization takes place when Kundalini pierces through this, then it starts flowing into our attention, the light of the Spirit. Attention that we have is the consciousness. We have general consciousness a human consciousness you can say, which is, expressed through our central nervous system. The conscious mind is enlightened, it becomes a dynamic force, and gradually your beauty your glory starts opening and recording what you are on your conscious mind which is an enlightened one. It’s a very good question, but it requires more time, but as it is I would say first you get your Realization and gradually you will know how your conscious mind has become so alert.
[Tape ends here.]
H.H. Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi