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Talk in transit to Canberra, Sydney Airport. 11 February 1992.
We had this Ganesha Puja, and I really spoke very nicely on equilibrium. And the rain, expressed its equilibrium, but when they were singing, it was very quiet. And when it stopped for a short time suddenly it came with a complete gusto and sang some songs and went away again. Just for the aarti to start with. It’s very beautiful it was. So dramatic. Very interesting.
So all preparations are done for the puja? Maybe some people might come up from abroad, I don’t know. Maybe. Have you written to some leaders or not, about this puja that we are going to have?
Yogi: I think yes some invitations were sent out.
Shri Mataji: Might have gone out.
Yogi: There are one or two people coming.
Shri Mataji: They might come.
Yogi: Only individuals. I invited a few people at Ganapatipule and they said; ‘Oh, it’s such a long way.’ And I said: ‘But you always expect us to come to yours.
Shri Mataji: Yes. They have to move. Columbus could go to America, why not you people go to Australia. Can’t understand.
Yogi: And a much more comfortable trip.
Shri Mataji: Much more comfortable. They found a much more comfortable place to live in. He was really lost. But in a way thank God, you see. Otherwise there would have been no Indian left in India, if he had come here by chance. So many flowers, beautiful. In Singapore I bought a book, very interesting, called as: ‘Faces of Islam.’ And I was surprised that the whole concept of Islam is Sahaja. Absolutely. And all the, authors and all the people, who have discussed there, are saying that Muslims are not Islamic. They don’t follow Islam. That’s why their whole thing has become so rigid. I mean so surprising that book has revealed to Me the confessions, of these people.
And the society that Mohammed Sahib has talked about is ours. Muslims are nowhere. Absolutely the way He has described how the brotherhood would be there, how righteousness would be there. But one thing is missing I feel, that He said: ‘You must seek the knowledge. You must seek the Truth.’ Despite that, whatever was Islam, they have failed to seek the knowledge, and to learn from others. Can you imagine? And He has said how to deal with non-Muslims also. And they said that there are many who are just minimal Muslims. Some of them are just for name’s sake, they are not Muslims. I mean I was so amazed. We have such a misunderstanding, that I always said that all these Incarnations and Prophets, came to establish a religion which was really Sahaja Yoga. All their expectations were Sahaja Yoga. And they have deviated so much, that you start wondering what is this, as in Christianity, you see. How much it has deviated, Christianity, to what level it has gone, it is shocking, really shocking.
I don’t know if you know of a book written ‘In God’s Name’. And in that book, it reads like a novel actually, I mean it’s very interesting. In that book the writer has suggested that this present pope, is responsible for the murder of the previous one. And there were thirteen or fourteen murders took place, just to hide this. Can you believe it? And recently one of the persons was murdered was Calvi. And they say, that this Calvi was murdered, I mean every week in Italy since I am there, some new exposures are coming. But this Calvi was murdered in a way that he was hanged, on one of the bridges of London. And if he was, he was the one, the one who murdered him, he said that: ‘I am a member of mafia all right, but I was paid by this Vatican by this pope, for murdering that man.’ Is a confession from him. And Mr Heard was, questioned: ‘Why didn’t you take action against this when these things happen in England?’ He says: ‘What’s the use? Because they would kill all our lawyers, our judges everyone. It’s all mafia.’ So the whole system of Catholic Church is nothing but mafia. Nine million, dollars of counterfeit, were printed and were distributed through their bank, that is Vatican Bank. Can you believe it? I mean this is Christianity. Is this what Christ preached? Killing people, doing all kinds of things?
I mean nowhere I find Mohammed decrying anyone. He said: ‘You have to believe in everyone’. Only these people are saying, that He was the last. He went to this limit to say that: ‘I am not Divine. I follow the Divine laws but I am not Divine.’ May be just He wanted people to follow. Surprising I was really surprised that, if Koran is teaching such great things, the Muslims are just on the other side of it and they admit, that Islam should not be confused with Muslims. In the same way we can say that Christianity should not be confused with Christians. What about Judaism? Same thing. I mean nowhere in that religion taught, to be like this the way they are behaving. They are following Hitler, out and out. The one who killed them, tortured them, they are becoming just like them.
So what to say about these human beings as, under the name of God, under the name of religion, behaving like this. The reason they have given many: ‘Because of this and because of that.’ So, this aspect, that they are saying that: ‘Because the people didn’t read Koran properly, they didn’t understand properly, they should have been educated properly.’ It will take thousand years to educate every Muslim about it. And if they think that by teaching through their Book, it will be imbibed, it’s not possible. Everybody reads Bible everybody reads Koran, but nothing goes inside just reading reading reading. So their idea is that if they read and analyze, I mean you have to have big universities for that, it could be taught to people and, still then not necessary, that they would imbibe.
I know of Mahatma Gandhi, see He was a Realized soul was a, and He was of course, over-disciplined according to Me. And He put these ideas on to His followers. As long as He lived they were all right. As soon as He died, they came out in their true colors. Everything dropped off like some sort of a mud on their body, and they became horrible people in India. So the thing missing is this, that, they are not Realized souls. Because they are not Realized, all these things they cannot bear. They cannot bear money, they cannot bear power. Now I think they cannot bear the religion. So you have to have your Realization. Unless and until you have your Realization, you cannot bear anything.
Moreover in Sahaja Yoga I mean there are no compulsions, no disciplines as such, I mean compared to what we see in all these religions. Suddenly I find people coming up, to the expectations of righteousness, goodness, and they are also very compassionate. So the change has come from inside, that means it’s the innate, change. The innate religion has been awakened. It’s not just forced on you, that you should be Vishwa Nirmala Dharmis but you become, you just become that. This is the point you will see, these Prophets did not know, I think Christ did not know that these people will never change unless and until they get their Realization. I think He knew also because He always said that you have to be born again. So when He said: ‘You are to be born again,’ they have a, brand you see again, one are Christian, another Born Again, another are Seventh Day, another, something. All just the same stupid people.
But Sahaja Yoga is the only way. Where what you, say that’s what you follow. Practice and precepts are just the same for Sahaja Yogis. They just can’t do it something else. They are dreaming also that the occident had a very bad influence on Islam and all that. I don’t think it’s that. You are coming from the occident, still you have jumped into the right culture of religion, when you understand what is righteousness what is good. You can bear it. You’re not to be told do this, do that, but in the light of your Spirit you do it. And you achieve it. It’s a very, interesting thing to note, that a little thing was missing in all of them, and they just went away as if they never knew where to land. All these religions, one better than the other.
Hindus, same thing. Hindus had of course one advantage they were never organized, thank God, because if you are organized and misled, then the whole party goes astray. But Hindus, Hindu scriptures were never organized into a religion like that. But still, so many points they have missed. Like it is said that: ‘In everyone there resides the Spirit’. Then how can you have caste system? You cannot. But they have caste system. So, also so many other rituals and things nonsense is there, absolutely nonsense. And Hindu religion became, a kind of a, ritualistic religion where, the priests uneducated useless priests became in charge. And they’re so stupid, worse than pope sometimes, that they say that if you want to have…
I’ve also found out a solution for children our western children, what is the problem. I went to Japan, and what I found there, that till the age of twelve years, they don’t allow children to have much sports, to go out much, and, mostly they are in the house or in the school, learning to do things with their hands. And medically I know that, till the age of twelve years, there is myelin sheath that grows on your nerves. And this myelin sheath gives you the deftness. Like if you go to the villages like [SOUNDS LIKE: Saranti or all these?], where they are producing artistic things, what happens, that the children also start doing the same. It’s so easy for them when they grow up.
So that is the time when they have to develop that deftness. That deftness is, also makes them more concentrated, they get involved into it, and also, that you can never acquire later. So that is just a precious time of twelve years, that that is the time children should be made to do some drawings, not at random, but properly, to do some carvings, to do some other clay work. You’ll be surprised by the age of twelve years, the boys in Japan could repair a watch, could repair televisions, and one boy produced, produced. At that time when I had gone, there were not many televisions also. I was surprised that the boy produced a television, at the age of twelve years. And also they are given violins in their hands when they’re about five years. They start playing. So the music, art and all this side is developed till the age of twelve years. And then the children are made to go out and play and do all kinds of exercises and also sports. But they are not let loose at a young age.
Now here I think about twenty years back or may be twenty-five years back a new theme started with children that, you should allow the children to do what they like, let them express themselves, let them be free, this that. I think it’s not proper. Otherwise they would be hanging from some trees trying to do without parents you see. After all this is the way the parents escape their duty I think. You have to tell children what they have to do. You have to, talk to them, you must have a rapport with them. You must talk to them, and you must also try to guide them, with your experience, tell them what is good what is bad. But this kind of a, thing that the child should be allowed to do what they like, express themselves the way they like. I’ve seen the western children always will ask parents: ‘Why, why?’ They are not to know, they have limitations. They can’t know every ‘why’. How can they understand? They are limited and so, first of all, they are to build up. You can you see this aeroplane now. Supposing it is not built up and allowed to go because: ‘It’s all right. Let it go in the sky’. What will happen? In the same way we have to put the nuts and bolts properly, into them, and see that they develop a personality.
That doesn’t mean that you should be in any way cruel to them. Not necessary. There’s no need to beat them or do anything of the kind. But only thing is, with love you should be able to change them. And also dignity, sense of dignity should be there. Because if you develop their sense of dignity, they will not misbehave. That’s very important from childhood to give them a sense of dignity, that they are Sahaja Yogis and they have to behave. Because when we started this school one year, first year, one month, it was such a problem I mean, impossible situation. The teachers gave up and they wrote to me: ‘Better send typhoon take children.’ It’s terrible. Not only that, they trouble them but they used to beat them and bite them and do all kinds of thing and make fun of them. So wild. And that place is full of cliffs and full of, all kinds of dangerous heights and they would just run out. Just like dogs. Dogs are better I would say. They had no caution about themselves and for one month, they all gave up. And the Principal has now run away he said: ‘I can’t manage these children. They don’t want to study. They have come here to trouble us, that’s all. They don’t want to study.’ And first thing when I met them they came and told Me: ‘Mother, we don’t want to study.’
Now we have put a one, masseur on them, who massages their body. He was telling Me: ‘They are really funny children.’ They don’t want to brush their teeth. If you ask them to brush their teeth they start crying. They don’t want to have a bath. Tell them you have to have your bath, they start crying. Anything you tell them they start doing like that.’ So we can say one thing, that disciplining children in a indirect way is very important like that you see. Because this idea, that you should leave the children as they are, is very wrong. You have to guide them and tell them how to behave.
Now see, you must have seen Indian children how quiet they are. But I think the attention of children is quite a lot. And the mothers are not working also, so they look after the children. Now in our schools that we have here you should, train them up that way. You can talk to them that: ‘You are Sahaja Yogis, you see, you are special people.’ The other day there was one Indian child, he’s living in Singapore, where he has picked up all these bad habits. He came and he was talking to Me: ‘Grandma, Grandma.’ And he said: ‘I will tell you in Your ear something’. And he said something funny. I said: ‘Are you a servant?’ He said: ‘No.’ ‘Then only servants talk like this. How are you talking like this?’ ‘Is it?’ I said: ‘Yes. This is how the servants talk.’ He got such a fright. He said: ‘All right, I will never talk like that. It’s dirty. I’ll not talk like that.’ You see, suddenly he changed.
So we have to talk to them, we have to have rapport with them. After all they are born Realized so they have special powers and they are special children. But, one thing is definite, that children cannot be avoided, and you cannot avoid your duty towards your children. You have to look after them because, they are in your trust as it is. They are after all born Realized children. They are special children with tremendous brains. They are cleverer than you and they can outwit you, because they are so clever, so intelligent. But if they get spoiled at this age, then later on it will be very difficult to bring them…You were better, because you were not born with Realization. So you understood the value of Realization. But they don’t. So they are to be told that: ‘You are Realized children, God sent you here, you are special children,’ and what should happen. Gradually they will pick up, and understand.
Of course I am happy that so many marriages are successful, and people are behaving all right. Of course there are some stray cases of fighting going on which I hear about. This is stupid of course again, that we should fight. When we are both Sahaja Yogis, what is there to fight? I mean, there’s no question. We believe in all the religions, so we can’t fight on religions. On what subject can we fight, I just don’t know. We know the ethics of Sahaja Yoga and we like it, so we cannot fight on ethics. Economics of Sahaja Yoga we understand, we cannot fight on that. I just don’t understand what is the, point of difference where they start fighting. On the contrary in Sahaja Yoga, you can really be, enjoying your married life. Should be enjoying your married life and the children should see to it, that our parents are so nicely, quietly settled down. But if they see you quarreling, next day they’ll be quarreling too.
Then we have only monogamy. We don’t have three wives or four wives as the Muslims have. We don’t have four husbands or something like that. We have simple monogamy, a very peaceful life, very beautiful life, then why should there be problem between husband and wife? Culturally we are just the same, we believe in all the good cultures of all the world. There’s no problem. One gentleman told Me that: ‘My wife quarrels with me on one point.’ I said: ‘Which?’ She said: ‘You do not meditate, you must meditate more.’ I said: ‘That’s a good point’. He thinks as well. But I told the wife that: ‘You need not tell him, he’ll do it on his own.’ Because you see cannot force things. This has to work out by themselves. You must accept them as they are. Gradually they’ll all improve and gradually they will get there. You cannot just force them. We cannot just tell each other, do this way or that way.
Sahaja Yoga is a thing is to be imbibed. People don’t understand that. They think by forcing people, by jumping at them, that’s not the way. Of course if somebody is very difficult, then we have divorce in Sahaja Yoga. We have not banned divorce as in the Catholic religion or anything. There is divorce. But there should be something sensible about it. One has to work it out. Normally there should not be many cases of Sahaja Yoga, of divorce. But we have because of the background certain types of funny relations they have had or I don’t know, what to say. On the whole, ninety percent or I should say ninety-five percent marriages are quite successful, and will be more now the number will be much more, I’m sure. This time we had seventy-six marriages, so you can imagine. And in this one month, Yogi was after My life with his file there.
So there, also there’s some misunderstanding that Yogi decides, he does not, poor man. He cannot. But it happens sometimes, like at the last minute they’ll bring somebody, now we cannot locate the name of that person, we just can’t find out if he’s there or not, or she’s there or not. Suddenly they bring somebody, and he may say or she may say that I am there on the form and all that. Then you have to accept it. If you accept such a thing then what happens that, you find that person is not a Sahaja Yogi or was not a Sahaja Yogi for such a long time. Something like that. So because of three hundred to four hundred requests you see, what can we do. I mean after all, can’t know who is who.
This is one thing that is very good. At least we can control all that. If something is wrong we can find out, we can work it out and we can manage things. It’s not so difficult. But the leaders must be careful because the leaders who recommend should not, do something out of just some sort of a pity, or some sort of a consideration. The main consideration should be, how are the vibrations and what is the commitment in Sahaja Yoga. If they are committed to Sahaja Yoga and if their vibrations are all right, then it’s all right it’s perfect. But sometimes, you know, some people do have problems which do not come up and later on it is discovered.
Still, I am so happy our society is so great. There’s no such society existing in the whole world. And this is the society I think all these Prophets and everybody dreamt of, of such love, understanding. Gradually I think we all will, grow and grow and grow. The growth is going on, but the atmosphere I must say is very nice, and it helps each other.
In Australia we had more problems in Melbourne, not in Sydney I must give credit to your leader here, he has managed the things well. There are many after him also it’s rather funny but, I just don’t know, because Australia always had a problem, this kind and gradually we have sorted it out. It’s a, leadership means nothing but I call it hocus-pocus. It has no meaning at all. But then somebody has to be there to contact and all that. It’s something so limited. But there is jealousy, there is all these things still, lingering behind and then the problems come in.
Gradually I am sure all of us will grow well and everything will work out, in a proper way. Should work out in a proper way. Our society has to show to the world that there can be a society like this.
Now there’s a good news which is very good I think, we can start the calendar from that date perhaps because such a transformation is coming, that the Russian Embassy has invited Me to honor Me for the work I have done in Russia. And the another good news is that Gorbachov wants to meet Me. And you must be aware that in Tagliatti, is one place, Tagliatti which is an industrial town where a gentleman called [SOUNDS LIKE: Pagliati] from Italy went down, he was a revolutionary. And he started this place called as Pagliati and the best motorcar that they make is made in this place Tagliatti, beautiful one. They gave Me a model here, very beautiful, quite big. Looked like a limousine sort. Quite big. And in that one city we have twenty-two thousand Sahaja Yogis practising, twenty-two thousand. And you’ll be amazed that in Russia nowhere is less than sixteen thousand people, nowhere. Any time you go there at least sixteen thousand people practising Sahaja Yoga, very seriously.
So can imagine in that country what is going to happen, though it hasn’t got food as you have here, too much to eat, but still look at the way, look at the way it has worked out. How deeply they have gone into it. They had never heard a word about Ganesha. They never believed in God. They were in a way atheist. And how much they have achieved in just…look at that. How did they achieve that? The depth that they have, they just touched it. And also they invited some scientist, or two hundred scientists were there. And when I started telling about science, said: ‘Mother, don’t tell us about science, had enough of it. Now please tell us about Spiritual science, spirituality. That’s it’. Wonderful I tell you, such experiences. And in My lecture only, just giving a lecture at the time when there were about sixteen thousand to eighteen thousand people, people got cured, just got cured.
Such wonders. There was one lady who came to see Me after the lecture and she was just sitting in front of Me. They brought her on a wheelchair. She said: ‘I couldn’t even sit.’ All right. And then I said: ‘You are all right,’ She said: ‘Really?’ I said: ‘Yes. You get up.’ Got up. She started walking and then she started running and everybody started… Such faith. Such faith.
And in Czechoslovakia, there was one old lady. They brought her with great difficulty just, held her out and brought her on the stage and she was trying to sit down. Then she said: ‘Mother I have complete faith in You. I know You can cure me.’ I said; ‘Really?’ ‘Yes. I am sure You can.’ I said: ‘You are cured.’ She got up. Everybody was surprised. I said: ‘Now walk. Walk now.’ And then she started walking fast, and everybody started laughing. But that faith, you see, is something so special. I mean I have seen so many miracles happening with this faith that…
There was one fellow called Mr Shukla, who is a big boss in this hotel management of Taj Mahal. And this Mr Shukla heard that his mother was very sick she was going to die. Very serious. So he went to Rotak which is very far away, beyond Delhi from Bombay, and he saw his mother in a very bad condition, very painful. The doctor said she has a galloping cancer and at the most she can live for three days. He got very much worried. He came back home. He thought that: ‘I couldn’t even talk to my mother, she’s in a coma, what will happen to her.’ He just sat before My Photograph and prayed: ‘Mother, please cure my mother. I don’t want anything just now, You just cure my mother, I know You can cure her.’ And within three days before, instead of dying she was out of the hospital. He brought her to Bombay. They took her to the hospital of Thata, Thata Memorial Hospital we have, and when they examined her they said she has no cancer. He has papers. He has papers from the first hospital and from this one.
Recently, Rajesh told me a story about himself. He said: ‘Mother, You don’t know how many powers You have given me.’ I said: ‘No it’s your faith.’ His uncle was just dying. They had removed his oxygen and everything. His aunt sent for him and she said: ‘Now he’s about to die. You pray for his salvation, at least to Mother. Just somehow or other try to see that he’s also gets his salvation’. He’s not a Sahaja Yogi uncle nothing of the kind. So Rajesh just had his pendant, just twisted it, and then closed his eyes and prayed: ‘Mother, please cure my uncle.’ That’s all. He said it was too much of a venture to say but I did say. And the uncle who was dying got all right, went to America and he’s back and still kicking.
So this is something you see. We have to go deep down into ourselves. Superficiality is not going to help. If we are superficial by nature, it will not help us. We have to understand ourselves. The whole mechanism is within us to attract the attention of this all-pervading Power, to use it, to work it out. We can do marvels. If we really go deep down, and become good vehicles of that all-pervading Power. That’s what we have to do. Everything can work out. There are so many examples of this, but specially these two recently I heard about and, I was amazed. We have to have that depth within us to understand: What are we doing? Where are we? We are born at this time. It’s an important time, and that at this time, we have got Self-realization.
Very few people got it. Not only that, we have been blessed with so many things. But above all we are so powerful. And all these powers must be manifested, must be used, must be worked out. And this superficiality of living on a very mundane style is not going to help us. We have to really go deep down into ourselves. I mean you are seekers, no doubt, you are seekers of truth. And you have found it also. How many have found it? So many are already lost if you see as hippies, as this, as that, as TM, as another this Rajneesh. I’ve seen some other lady here, two months she came. How much she was caught up. She was just worried. So many are lost like that. But you are the people who have got the knowledge, you are God’s people, you have got the truth with you, and all these powers are within you, but you must use them.
But I’ve seen even after coming to Sahaja Yoga some people get lost in the temptation because they get money. Some people get some talents, they get lost in the talents. Some people get some powers, they’ll get lost with them. That’s not the way. You see if God has given you this Realization, He expects you, to give Realizations to others, to go deep down into your Self. This is what we have to do is to really work out, our depth.
It all exists within us. You never knew there is Spirit within us. Is there. You never knew there is Ganesha within us. Is there. And when you started awakening them, you found it works, it works. It has worked such wonders, health wise, wealth wise, in every way. But spiritually, how far we are? How do you judge a person who is spiritually evolved, is that, even a desire works out. Any, desire works out. And such a person doesn’t have any funny desires. Absolutely it works out. And that’s what I want Australians to do because you are special people born in this country of Ganesha. Perhaps we forget sometimes that you are born in the land of Shri Ganesha. Very special people [INAUDIBLE: you are?]. Very special. So have respect for yourself. And also must, manifest your glory. That otherwise, of all the places from Russia, Sahaja Yoga will spread, it’s not, I mean, never expected that. But it may, it may I tell you they are so deep, so very deep people. Extremely deep.
I don’t know what has given this. Materialism I think is responsible for our superficiality. They are not materialistic. About thirty percent people are materialistic, the rest are not. They are all seeking the spirit in the real sense of the word. Not just for fashion. Very remarkable. Very loving. Very beautiful. I was there, they came. They arranged that, from one place, some people will come only for two days then two days. And where I had purchased a little cottage, they, there are some places where they can live in a small little huts like that. They all came and stayed there. I didn’t know where they were living or anything. Early in the morning they would come, bring some flowers, and plant the flowers in the garden, flowers, itself. And would not say anything and go away. Sit down for meditation.
One day suddenly I discovered all of them sitting there meditating. So surprised. And then it was this Gorbachov problems came up. So I said: ‘Now what are you going to do?’ ‘What are we doing? We are in the kingdom of God. Why should we worry about Gorbachov or anyone, why should we?’ We are not worried. Beautiful people. Beautiful.
Very collective. Also this is the blessing of, communism they are very collective. I have seen that also in Calcutta. People are extremely collective. They don’t talk ill of others. Very collective people. It’s not like: ‘Come to my house. Oh You must visit. This thing, this is my daughter…’ That ‘my-ness’ I didn’t see, in Russia and in Calcutta. I was surprised. Calcutta also has communistic, communist government. How it has worked out, I can’t say. So are you spreading Sahaja Yoga? How many people give Realization?
Yogi: [INAUDIBLE] We all do it together collectively.
Shri Mataji: Now you are doing. You all have to do it. It’s very important. All of you should ask this question: ‘What have I done for God?’ Look at these flowers that you brought. They are so fragrant. They are so beautiful. They are going to live for a very short time. But what pleasure. What expression of your love they give. How beautiful they are. Australians have a very big role to play. As I expect from Ganesha, I expect from you also.
Yogi: …from Hong Kong, from Alex and Kate. And they managed to get some editorial in the newspaper, for their programs as a run-up to your visit. And in the first program they got sixty Chinese people, very good quality people.
Shri Mataji: Oh Look at Alex. Alex is really special I must say. Such a beautiful boy. When his mother died, and he was staying with Me, so I said: ‘Alex won’t to go to your mother?’ So he said: ‘Mother, there’s no seat available. Will take about four, five days to get a seat by the time it goes on. So what is the need. I am with You.’ Said: ‘You did try?’ Said: ‘I did little bit, not much, because I saw You, and I knew that my mother will have Eternal life, so why should I worry.’ Now he’s saying that Alex has got sixty Chinese people in Hong Kong. I couldn’t get even one.
Chinese are another one. If Sahaja Yoga gets into their heads, they’re very traditional, very, very deep, very deep people, Chinese. The Prime Minister of China, I met him when I went there, in a photograph he’s just next to Me standing. After that he became Prime Minister, not that time. A very nice man. And he was asking Me about spiritual life, all the time. I showed complete ignorance, you see. I said these communists God knows what they are up to. I didn’t tell him. But I think we can approach him now. Somehow or another they got very fond of Me, all the Chinese government and all. Somehow. Some sort of an auspiciousness they felt about Me. I couldn’t understand them, what made them, respect Me so much. They had one exhibition, one which they had invited Me and My husband, and I couldn’t go at this point. And, the next day was closed, that exhibition must be closed but they kept it open for Me alone. And they said: ‘You must see the exhibition, it’s important.’ I don’t know, they have their own ways of understanding.
We had Confucius there. They follow more Confucius now, our Confucius who has talked about general well-being and all that. But not so much about Tao, that they don’t talk. But they are extremely humble Chinese. Very humble. You try to praise them and they say: ‘No, no. We have to do much better than this, nothing.’ They can never get pampered you see, you couldn’t praise them, never. They are very much like Russians, in so many ways. I can see Sahaja Yogis here. Any questions? Tania is very happy with her husband. Very happy.
Yogi: Yes Shri Mataji she’s happy.
Shri Mataji: She’s very happy.
Yogi: Mother did you know she has hepatitis?
Shri Mataji: She has what? She too? I’ve told him what is the thing. Can you fax to Dr Spiro? [HINDI EXCHANGE] Faxes. She is on the liver… or her husband, was just like a child. But see him when he sings, absolutely. Remarkable. There’s that one with a super- intelligence I see. Wonderful. She’s happy because she can come to pujas, we are now there. She is very happy about that. She’s happy in Spain also. Italians are better but not Spanish people. Spanish are little [INAUDIBLE] I think this American conquering has reflected in their character.
There are also some misunderstanding of people think that I have said that the men should dominate women. Never. I am Myself a woman and then, if men start dominating Me what will happen? But the man is the, head of the family. So the woman, should get her authority from him but she has her own authority, as a mother, and the husband must respect her. Otherwise he’ll never be respected. So it’s kind of mutual understanding between the two as I have said that, they are the two wheels of a chariot, one on the left one on the right. If you change the wheels, then what will happen? They are absolutely, equal no doubt. Absolutely equal. Only they are not similar, which we must understand that we are not similar. Is nice to be a woman, I tell you, it’s much better. Because men have to face so many people, face so many bosses. You have only one boss, and if you know how to manage him…
But should be done sweetly, with understanding. It works out with your, wisdom. Must have the wisdom, how to manage it. But that’s a part of the game, and one has to play it well. Not to feel any way dominated by anything, but it’s a, kind of a framework one has to work with. Now supposing this is on our head. This is not dominating us, but it has to be there. So a kind of a framework is there, and that framework is to be accepted. Both of them should accept and the husband should never make her feel that he is dominating her.
Actually, in India the custom is that husbands are also very clever, not only the women. So normally they’ll give all the money to the wife to be managed, and later on take away all of that. And always they’ll say: ‘All right’. They’ll say: ‘All right’, the son to her, like guru and all that. Means: ‘You are my lord and this and that and…’ That’s how they keep it up. Because one thing they must understand is that if wife is all right the family is all right. If wife is all right your life is all right. So you must look after your wife. Very important. If you understand that point the men will never try to dominate. Is a wrong idea is I don’t know from where it has trickled down that I have said, the men should dominate a woman. But false prestige should not be there.
Like in America we went first. You know American women, how they are. They’ll divorce ten times, and have all the money of the men. The men are just like beggars and they are so rich. It’s a profession with them. The women have this profession of divorcing men. So they had cooked and all that. So I said: ‘All right let the boys eat first and then you can eat later on.’ They said: ‘Mother this is domination.’ I said: ‘Why? Eating first is domination or later on domination.’ I think eating there, later on is domination, because you are at peace you see. Eat as much as you like. But if somebody is eating first, then he’s in a hurry to finish for the next lot that has to come up. But if you are the second one then you are relaxed you are eating the way you like. There’s nothing to feed.
And moreover, it’s an attitude I think that: ‘I love to cook, I love to serve I enjoy it. I enjoy.’ It’s a, temperament of a woman. She wants to feed people, she likes it. I tell you, My grandchildren, daughters, both of them, they were quite small, I asked them what do you want to be in life. So they said: ‘We want to be a nurse or an airhostess.’ So I said: ‘Why these two?’ ‘In these only two professions you can give food to people. That’s why.’ And they play, you know, they play like that. They’ll make a tray in that they will [INAUDIBLE].
So this is actually innate feeling of a child. Like once My daughter told girls, that if somebody comes from outside you must make him sit on the sofa there. You must see that the fan is open. Give them something to eat, take out from the fridge and all that. So one washerman, the dhobi came in. They called for [INAUDIBLE] to sit on the sofa. Said: ‘I can’t sit.’ ‘You have to sit.’ ‘I’m in a hurry.’ ‘Nothing you have to sit.’ They made him sit, opened the fan, got everything from the fridge, put it before him. ‘You have to eat, otherwise we’ll feed,’ you see. And when My daughter entered the house she saw these girls feeding him with their own hands. Got such a fright. He said: ‘I’m sorry these girls I don’t know what are they are.’ They said: ‘You told us and we’re very happy we are doing that.’ So innately children have this feeling in their hearts, as girls. And then when we get a chance we want to do it. I mean, it’s such a pleasure, to feed someone.
You must have seen with Indian women, it’s very common they love to feed others, they’re very happy. And, I mean there’s no domination I mean if you have to feed someone, that doesn’t mean that somebody’s dominating you these are all nonsensical norms. On the contrary it’s a privilege. Otherwise after sometime we’ll find, that men will be sitting at home and the women will be going out. That will be, that’s already a situation I mean.
[It’s hot for children I think we are in a cabin, like the ship I think, without the sea. And there’s no air-conditioning properly. Outside is better.] So, any questions? [INAUDIBLE something about entrepreneurs and a book] Entrepreneurs? I see. It’s quite a small book I have to say.
Yogini: …the entrepreneurs, plastic surgeons, the cosmetic industry, fashion industry…
Shri Mataji: So what are they saying?
Yogini: I think the bottom line is that women have got very poor, self image through those [INAUDIBLE] It’s a multimillion dollar business [INAUDIBLE] people are forcing women into and women are trapped…
Shri Mataji: So that, and then they’re saying, so women can’t do this and…
Yogini:… talk about how women are frightened to grow old, that there is no culture…
Shri Mataji: You see in, I can have the book? In Germany, when I went, there was a lady and she was telling Me that in Germany, if you get old then the men go after younger girls, because you are left alone. Then you have to marry some older man, who is left by his wife or something. It’s a big danger. I said: ‘Why don’t you produce children. I mean they get, if you have four children they get more money than the Prime Minister.’ They said: ‘But then you cannot have a husband.’ Either you have children or you have a husband. It’s like that.
It is because, I tell you, it’s very superficial, very materialistic superficial ideas, about women also. They’re a commodity. In Sahaja Yoga woman, is a person, as equal as a man, you see. It’s very different. They are just a commodity to be used, whenever they want to. And I must say also some women know the weaknesses of men and try to work it out in such a manner. Sometimes the women only, trouble women, also. They don’t understand that she’s a woman and I’m a woman I should not try to trouble. But in sort of competitiveness, they do wrong things and try to destroy another’s life.
But men will have to change now, it’s coming to that. All these tricks they have tried and they are now having, lot of problem. There are diseases that are coming up. Already there’s lots of already these secret diseases there. Apart from these secret diseases there are diseases which are stopping them, new diseases. So now they’ll have to come to monogamy. Once they come to monogamy, then they’ll have to realize the value of women, what they are.
And in this all, quarrel about ordination. Imagine Christianity is so stupid that they can’t have women for ordination. Now I am a Woman after all. And now as a reaction, women are so angry, that a girl came to Me the other day I was in Perth she said: ‘Mother, why did you call God as ‘He’, why don’t you call as ‘She’?’ I said: ‘Because I am ‘She’ that’s why I have to call Him ‘He.’ But this concept is only, is still there. In the Indian scriptures nowhere, that there’s God, and His Power is Adi Shakti. But nowhere, even Islam, in Christianity, in Judaism, in what you call, Buddhism, Jainism, nowhere. They have not talked of the woman at all. As if the whole world is made of men. And this is surprisingly for developed countries in Sweden countries like this, they are talking this nonsense. But the solution is only Sahaja Yoga. There’s no other solution. Even women go and fight with men what’s the use? Men fight with women no use. So the best thing for them is to get to Sahaja Yoga to understand the value of women. They understand what they are for, and what is our relationship means you see. It’s such an enjoyment. Stupid those people who do not want to have that enjoyment.
Also your media is responsible whenever you open the television you just find husband wife fighting …It’s too much. All the time fighting, fighting, they show…they never show good relationship. Once I asked Derek Lee: ‘Is there any novel where they show the romance of husband and wife?’ He said: ‘There’s no book’. No book in English. The whole of English language there’s no romance of husband and wife, can you imagine. I mean that is how you get into tragedies.
But in India if you see, the literature has certain ethics. One of them is only the romance between husband and wife is a romance. The rest of it is, vulgarity. This is the concept it shows. Also because mostly they are arranged marriages, so they don’t know all this romanticism before marriage. So they are waiting for their wife and whole thing, and the wife becomes everything to the husband, and same, vice versa. So the whole cultural concept has changed. It used to be the same way before, in every country, but now we are advanced you see. In that advancement we have done this kind of a thing, is to make antagonistic societies of men and women. It’s very sad. But we are very superficial.
But the concept itself is wrong. I think the basic fundamental thing, in the western culture is, to see and to be seen. This is what I’ve realized. That’s the culture. That people should see you, and you should be able to see others. I mean, it is so superficial. Now they see somebody’s legs and somebody’s knees, I mean, what’s the use of a joyless pursuit. That person doesn’t belong to you nothing of the kind. What’s the use of seeing these things? But this, we have become very superficial. And it’s going on and on. But I think this will all stop in Sahaja Yoga, gradually we’ll start seeing the beauty inside.
You know Chris Marlow you know from London. He had a wife Jane. She was quite a dry person. She herself was saying that: ‘Mother I am no good for him.’ So they divorced. Then he told Me: ‘Mother I want to marry a girl who has lots of vibrations.’ I said: ‘What about looks?’ ‘No I don’t see any looks. I want to see a girl with vibrations.’ And we had a girl from Amalhabad. Very dark, extremely dark, and village-like, absolutely. You will never, I mean, I don’t think from your standards she may not be beautiful from My standards she was very good. Full of vibrations. Full of vibrations. As soon as she came on the stage he jumped, said: ‘This is the one.’ He’s so tall, she’s short and [INAUDIBLE]. And he looks after her so well I tell you. And then he went to her place, her village, all the way to Amalhabad. My sister saw, she said: ‘What a couple.’ I said: ‘The couple has chosen each other, I can’t help it.’ He’s so fond of her, he looks after her. She’s very sweet, I mean I really love with that. But I didn’t know that this fellow will have the same sort of a feeling. Because we are superficial these things are accepred. You should see the inner being. How beautiful it is.
Look at that Elizabeth Taylor, that stupid country of America. This was her eighth divorce, I mean eighth honeymoon. So they had three thousand or four thousand people just standing outside her house to see, she is going for her honeymoon. Can you imagine stupid. And there were ten helicopters hovering round. And they were parachuting, and some of them fell on the trees and some fell on the people who were there. And they were quite excited, very sensational. You know such stupid people these Americans are. I don’t know what to say. And this lady had divorced eight. And this husband of hers, this one, he’s I think, I don’t know how many years younger to her, like her son. And also he’s an ordinary man or something. But just for the heck of it. She has no sense of marriage, nothing. But what she has done is she’s operated her eyelids and she’s put her up and all that, and she looks younger now and she says: ‘I can…’ There’s no, in that country you cannot mature. So stupid. I mean, I was yet to come across people in a group so stupid as that. Stupidest people you see. Stupidest. You can never mature this way.
Still Sahaja Yoga is now working. Gregoire feels so exhausted. Every time he footsoaks he just lies flat, saying: ‘Mother, please save me from New York.’ It’s terrible. There’s no way of maturity. [INAUDIBLE] They invited me for this Jungian Society. And I went there. Of course I didn’t read Jung much but that day I got hold of a book and I found out the reason why Indians have failed. So I talked to them they were very much impressed and all that. Then the president of that society is eighty years of age, and he said that: ‘Mother I must see You I have some private thing to talk.’ I said: ‘All right.’ This old man came about eighty years of age. He said: ‘I have a very serious problem.’ I said: ‘What’s the serious problem.’ He says: ‘You see I had a keep. Because I am a Catholic I could not marry the keep but I never told my wife. [INAUDIBLE] I never told my wife.’ ‘So now what am I supposed to do ?’ He said: ‘Now that my wife is dead and I want that keep to stay with me but she has refused. Can you do something to see that the keep stays with me.’ I said: ‘It’s all right.’ Eighty year-old man. I was turning sixty by that time. An eighty year-old man talking like this to Me. I said: ‘Now what is happening to this man?’ And he is the chairman of the Jungian Society, International. See the maturity of that person. Eighty year-old.
In America, such cases so much. Terrible. Extremely stupid and I don’t know, they have no confidence in themselves. All the time they think we should not get old. So there was, on the television they showed the cinema actors and actresses coming for a dance of ‘shake’ and they were all about ninety years of age. Then when they got down from the car only they were shaking. I said: ‘What’s the use, of going to shake?’ In ninety years they have not grown. Funny dresses they were wearing and all that. So when are they going to grow. There’s no maturity. The atmosphere is the other way round I think. Very stupid.
Really mad. But people start copying them. Whatever they say people listen to them even English I’m surprised. I said that: ‘You are sensible people. Why do you follow these stupid Americans, or the French?’ English people are rather mature. Maybe they lived in India so they have matured quickly I don’t know why. But compared with these stupid people they are much more mature. And now they are following the American style. They used to follow first the French style, now the American style. They don’t stand on their own legs. But Italians have a good sense of ridicule. They understand what is ridiculous, that’s something about them. A great sense of ridiculous. It will all change in Sahaja Yoga it will. You are in the Kingdom of God. You shouldn’t worry about these things. But what to do, if they join us they can come up. But they don’t want to, let them be like as they are. What else?
Shri Mataji: Lymphatic system? If the lymphatic system is under attack you may be left-sided. You see it is, on the whole, there are only two types of problems actually. Third type doesn’t exist, or doesn’t bother us. One is the left another is the right, you see. Now the lymphatic system is actually, the combination of both. It’s a psychosomatic disease. For that you have to do just three-candle treatment. You see it is reduced to such a simple thing either you do three-candle treatment, or you do water treatment. The third type is the one where you have been to wrong gurus, in the center. If I run some wrong type of meditation [INAUDIBLE]. For that also it’s three-candle treatment, mostly. Or maybe if the [INAUDIBLE] comes there’s a little change also sometimes. But whatever it is, this is very simple for physical. Anybody has lymphatic system problem has to do left side first. So this is psychosomatic.
First you must get rid of the psycho side, so do the left side. When it is cleared out, then right side is not difficult. If you are too right-sided, then what happens, it’s like a pendulum, you move from right to left. Then psychosomatic troubles start. The best is first to remove the left, then is look after the right. Sahaja Yoga is a very simple way of clearing. It works. Somebody should help you in left side is to give you bandhan on your chakras with a candle. Put a candle on one side of the left swadisthana and also one before the Photograph. Because it’s all due to viruses. And the viruses are there because your attention in the left. Once your attention goes away from there you are rid of that. All right? It’s not complicated. Sahaja Yoga is very simple.
You know we have cured people who were about to go on the dialysis. Kidney has been cured. Can you imagine? Of course [INAUDIBLE] blood cancer that has been cured no doubt. But imagine the kidney, people were going on the dialysis.
[INAUDIBLE QUESTION] Of course. I mean, we make the human beings. [INAUDIBLE] You first, if you are evolving, you are also evolving human beings with you. So it’s for the emancipation of the whole world. It’s not only your evolution. No no not at all. That was over. Now I have told about that in [INAUDIBLE], is that, from Buddha’s future they say there will be a future Buddha who will be Maitreya. Maitreya means Three Mothers together, will be the future Buddha. And that is called as Bodhisattva. Now the Bodhisattva is the One, who will become Buddha, means who will get Enlightened right, and will work for the other people. So is already described, and you don’t have to suffer, you don’t have to do anything as it was before individually, but now you’ll work with the collective. So, you have to work with the collective otherwise you have no meaning. Also you cannot be cleansed unless and until you come to collective. If you say: ‘I’m staying at home and I’m doing all the puja and all that,’ doesn’t work out. Like a nail if it is cut, it doesn’t grow. Very simple. It’s not for one person no doubt. I mean how can it be, for one. Because the time has come for doing collective work now. The whole world has to change.
Yogi: Shri Mother, will we ever be able to go to Tasmania?
Shri Mataji: [HINDI] That’s [INAUDIBLE]. Yes they have to come. They have to come here. Like you see, Sicily, we are now having lots of Sahaja Yogis there. They all came down. Then I can now go to Sicily. We have very great people in Tasmania. Now that’s the point. So when they will come and they’ll get their Realization then I can go. You see, if I go to a place it is like the, should I say, the seeds being sprouted nobody to look after.
Yogi: There were quite a number of people who came from Tasmania. I think some of them wonder if they could ever go back.
Shri Mataji: They should. They should. They should go with their bandhans and try to save their country. They should. If they go and establish it I’ll definitely go. It’s quite a remarkable place that Tasmania is. Talismad means, all these secret, magic. From that Tasmania word must have come.
Yogi: How many Tasmanians are there here?
Shri Mataji: Still very few, to fight those negativities there. Very negative. Very negative, isn’t it. That’s like, we have Calcutta. Too much of black magic. Too much. But gradually we have now, got it out. It’s changed. One side is they are all full of black magic, those who believe in God. The another side are communists. But still now we have thousands. It is remarkable. But people had to work very hard for it, very hard. So many people went from Nagpur, from Bombay, from Delhi to help them. Still some places I’ve not been, like Ceylon, Assam. We have some coming from there. I told them next year I’ll try to be there.
Yogi: Shri Mataji, …Photograph where Hands are like that. Can you tell us the significance of that please?
Shri Mataji: Hands like that. You want to know what’s the symbol? This is for assurance. See this is for assurance. It has powers. This Hand has tremendous powers. And this One is for giving. You see. So these are two aspects. But actually as you know this is the, power of action. So it acts. And this is the power of desire. So this is the Love that’s flowing of your Mother, and this is how She [INAUDIBLE] it. But now I have given up. I used to do it in the beginning it was needed, but now it’s not necessary. It works even without that. They are called as mudras which I used in the beginning. Now I don’t use that, mostly.
H.H. Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi
Bibliographical note by John Noyce:
1. There are several books with the title ‘Faces of Islam’; the most likely one would be
‘Faces of Islam : conversations on contemporary issues’ edited by Ziauddin Sardar
(Kuala Lumpur: Berita Pub., 1989)
2. ‘In God’s name : an investigation into the murder of Pope John Paul I’ by David A.Yallop
(New York: Bantam Books, 1984; new edition, 2007)