TRANSCRIPT OF PRESS CONFERENCE NEW DELHI 19-03-1993
Sahaja Yogi: From all our Sahaja Yogis here, we give our pranams to Shri Mataji. A very warm welcome to all the members of the press, who have so kindly taken their time to be with us this afternoon. My name is Rajesh Shah.
Can you hear now?
So, I wished a very warm welcome to all the members of the press who have taken the time to be with us, the Sahaja Yogis and with Shri Mataji this afternoon. And we are very glad that you are here. My name is Rajesh Shah. I am from Bombay. And I have been in Sahaja Yoga for the last twenty years.
Today my task in the next one or two minutes is to not only welcome you very warmly but also to introduce some of the people that we have over here. And they will then be invited for two to three minutes to talk about different aspects of Sahaja Yoga.
We have Professor Doctor U.C. Rai whose book on Sahaja Yoga as an alternate medicine is going to be released tomorrow. Doctor Rai will be talking to us shortly. We have Doctor Brian Wells from London, who is a member of the Royal College of Psychiatrists and is a consultant with London hospitals, especially relating to addiction.
We have Doctor David Spiro also from London and he will be speaking to us; he is a general practitioner in the city of London itself. We have a number of other people with us who have been active in Sahaja Yoga for a long time. Mr Gregoire de Kalbermatten is from New York, is with the United Nations, chief of the policy of the United Nations capital fund. We have Doctor Mishra from Canada who is a neuroscientist. Doctor Galina, Doctor Bogdan from Russia, Doctor Hamid is from Austria – a consultant with the Department of Forests in Austria and has worked very closely with Sahaja Yoga methods on environmental control and forests.
A number of people are at the back, who we can call upon, who have various experiences of Sahaja Yoga especially in terms of diseases which doctors may have thought very difficult to cure but they themselves have been cured. So this is the introduction. I would now like to call upon Doctor Rai. He would speak to us a little bit about Sahaja Yoga and medicine for two or three minutes.
Doctor Rai: Her Holiness Mataji Shri Nirmala Devi, Rajesh Shah, Dignitaries of the Press, Ladies and Gentlemen. It is my great pleasure to talk today about something we have done at Lady Harding Medical College on Sahaja Yoga. Before I tell you what has been done, I will tell you about how the whole thing started.
I heard a lecture of Shri Mataji in 1984 and Shri Mataji gave realisation. And said that there is a cool breeze which comes when self-realisation occurs. After I lecture, I met Shri Mataji and said, “Shri Mataji, it could be a subjective phenomenon. Anybody can say when you are asking him, are you getting cool breeze, are you getting cool breeze?; he can say, yes, yes, I feel there is something there”. So I said, “Shri Mataji, I do not believe in it much”. And Shri Mataji was very benevolent and graceful, and She told me that, “Doctor Rai, you are working in a medical college as head of the department. Why don’t you do research and find out what is the truth”.
This is how the whole story started and I asked one of my students, a post-graduate student to take the work of Sahaja Yoga. And the whole thing was put into the faculty of the Delhi University and they approved the subject to find out as to what are the physiological effects of Sahaja Yoga on the human body. I will not go into details. When the thesis of this student was completed and the results of the data were collected and analysed, statistically we found very good results. And one of the most outstanding result was, there was a decrease in adrenalin secretion.
Adrenalin we know – when we are in stress, when there is anxiety, this neurotransmitter is produced in the body and is responsible for various harmful effects. For example, high blood pressure, usually which we get is due to the greater secretion of adrenalin.
And therefore we thought that the results were so beneficial, so good that we thought that another student should be given a dissertation. And this time we worked with the patients at Lady Hardinge Medical College, in Suchakrapani Hospital in collaboration with the Department of Medicine. We worked on the patients of hypertension, essential hypertension. And we worked on the patients of bronchial asthma.
And when after one year the whole data was collected and analysed statistically, it was found that it was very helpful as an adjunct therapy in cases of essential hypertension and also in cases of bronchial asthma. In bronchial asthma as well as in essential hypertension I may tell you; that the cause is not known, as yet. The medicine has advanced so much, but still, twenty per cent of the population of the USA suffers from essential hypertension. There is no treatment for it.
The various cardiovascular disorders say that the risk is high blood pressure. How to tackle this high blood pressure, except with the drugs. And the drugs are very toxic.
Therefore, in one of the recent conferences on cardiology, they have said that in order to tackle hypertension one of the things is that one has to come to the Yoga. By meditation. And we found here that in our patients of essential hypertension that when they were doing Sahaja Yoga, their neurotransmitter that is the concentration of adrenalin decreased significantly. And that was responsible for the beneficial effect. Similarly the psychological effect which is one of the factors of bronchial asthma was very effectively controlled and the patient of bronchial asthma who was doing Sahaja Yoga showed remarkable effect.
Now after these two works which we have done, we were very much impressed with the effects of Sahaja Yoga and we thought of doing some other work. And one day I was talking to Shri Mataji and She said, “Doctor you know, epilepsy is a left-sided disease. And it can be cured by Sahaja Yoga”.
I was really surprised, and I couldn’t say anything before Her. But I was wondering how Sahaja Yoga can control epilepsy. You see, it did not come to my mind at all. But then you see, when I was reading the literature and I recollected. Then I caught hold of one paper of Doctor B. Ramamurthy, an eminent neurosurgeon of Madras who was the president of the Academy of Medical Sciences. And in one of the neurophysiology conferences, he said that he treated the patients of epilepsy by feeding the alpha waves which were stored in a module, from the yogis.
Now, this gave me a clue. And I thought that instead of storing the alpha waves of the yogis in a module and then giving it to the patients; if we ask the patients to do Sahaja Yoga, their alpha index will increase, and the patient may be benefitted.
So, another PhD thesis was taken up. And this time, because I retired at this time, I asked one of my friends Doctor Salva Murthy who is the Director in the Defence Institute of Physiology and Allied Sciences to take up this job of guiding thesis of Usha Judani. And she completed her thesis; it has already been submitted to Delhi University for evaluation. And when we looked at the compiled data of the results, it was really very astounding.
We found that even the compact spectral arrays, the computerised electro spectrographic records showed a tremendous effect, you see it became absolutely normal. And this was really very good science. When I went to Russia you see, I presented this work and the Institute of Neurosurgery in Leningrad and the Chief of the Epileptic Department was very much impressed by it. And he said that “Doctor Rai, we want to do a joint venture research program because there is no treatment for epilepsy”.
So these things have been scientifically done. Now, then one day Shri Mataji told me, “Doctor Rai, this Sahaja Yoga can cure cancer”. Again, you see it was very difficult for me to understand. And for two years I just heard from this side and it went from the other side. Because I could not, it could not come to me at all. How by Sahaja Yoga, because by Sahaja Yoga, we get relaxation. That much part one can understand. But how Sahaja Yoga is going to help in the prevention of cancer. It was something which was beyond my thinking.
But when She said two or three times you see. And in the meantime, I was asked by so many persons during my tour to Russia, Italy and other places to write a book on Sahaja Yoga. And when I was going through the literature, I got a very important hint, which Shri Mataji enunciated in 1970. Shri Mataji said in 1970 that it is the Central Heart which is responsible for producing antibodies. She said that if in the childhood or if due to some cause your central heart is catching, the whole of the immune system will get depressed.
Now, this was a very important thing, which in 1977, at a holistic health conference in Toronto, called Seamonton, you see, he put a psychosomatic model for the treatment of cancer. Now his [inaudible] treatment depends on the surveillance theory of cancer.
Normally what happens is – all of us, sometimes or other, our immune system produces cancer cells. But normally what happens is, that our immune system is so strong that they are able to, the cells are able to kill the cancer cells. If somehow this immune system gets depressed, then the cancer cells proliferate, and they come into a full-fledged form. And that is how cancer occurs. This is the theory based on the psychosomatic model on the mind-body relationship put forward in 1977.
And now when we tried to analyse the data, we have found that this our theory of Shri Mataji is very correct. And if somebody is practising Sahaja Yoga, he might be able to prevent himself from cancer. And also from the heart diseases. This is in short, [inaudible] and I have written a book on it. I have written in it how we can prevent cardiovascular diseases, how the stress can be combated and nullified, how psychiatric disorders can be cured.
Thank you very much. If you want to ask any questions?
[Next speaker is Doctor Brian Wells ].
Dr Brian Wells: Her Holiness Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi, Ladies and Gentlemen. Good afternoon. I am a consultant psychiatrist and I work in London. My main work is at the centre for research on drugs and health behaviour and I leave you our annual report for your perusal should you so wish.
The main work that we do is an international series of collaborative studies on drugs and HIV infection. And as I’m sure everybody in the room is aware, India has not escaped the problem with HIV infection. And there is now reasonable evidence for the World Health Organisation to predict that by the year 2000, Asia will have a problem with AIDS that is worse than that of Africa.
This is not some sort of shock tactic, this is the projection as based upon statistical research. What we do know about the treatment and prevention of drug misuse is that there is no one single solution. What is effective is a solution that actually addresses the whole person. For example, we can give methadone to people taking heroin, we can give substitute drugs, but it does not actually address the while problem. What needs to be addressed is the whole person – and that includes the physical, psychological or emotional aspects. And also the spiritual and social aspects of an individual. There is no one treatment that fulfils all of these different obligations, all of these different criteria.
However, we do know that subjects who enter Sahaja Yoga – and we have many subjects who have extremely serious drug and alcohol problems including addiction. And as they develop and alter their awareness as a result of the practice of the meditation in Sahaja Yoga, their values change, their physical state changes, their emotional state changes and their need for chemicals that alter the way in which we feel gradually melts away. There are now a significant number of studies and I will not bore you with precise figures, but some of my colleagues will be presenting hard data of a more technical nature later on.
But out of all of the treatment modalities that I have seen around the world, there is really none that is quite as complete, so complete, affecting the whole person so dramatically as the practice of Sahaja Yoga. Which is not simply a meditation, it is a physiological experience that alters different energies in the body. The practice of Sahaja Yoga restores the body into balance. It restores the physical side of the body, the emotional side of the body and the spiritual side of the body, thus replacing completely the need to take drugs including alcohol.
I should be very happy to answer any questions later on and I know that I have other colleagues who are going to come up and address you. So, I should be sitting here and would be very happy to answer any specific questions that you may have. Thank you.
[Doctor David Spiro addressing the press].
Dr David Spiro: Doctor David Spiro from London. [Inaudible/But I’ve] been asked to talk about the spread of Sahaja Yoga throughout the world over the past twenty years. I had the privilege to meet Shri Mataji about fifteen years ago in London. And at that time Sahaja Yoga existed and was practiced only in two countries in the world – in India where She started Her work and in London where Her husband had been posted.
And at that time, all the Sahaja Yogis from outside India certainly could fit around one very small dining table and quite often did. Now we have reached a situation where Sahaja Yoga is practiced in more than fifty countries in the world, every continent in the world and hundreds of thousands of people have had the experience of self-realisation that Shri Mataji describes, without any adverse effects whatsoever. And as you have heard, with very many benefits in all areas of their life. Thank you very much.
[Rajesh Shah addressing the audience again].
Rajesh Shah: We have heard the doctors speak. And I would very much now, on behalf of all of us who are here, like to invite the One who has taught the doctors about Sahaja Yoga. How the Sahaja Yoga is possible and who would, in Her words describe best what is Sahaja Yoga. So, on behalf of all of us, I would like to invite Her Holiness Shri Mataji to please address us. And after that, whatever questions there are, we can have that as a question-answer session for all the people that are here.
But before I do that, on behalf of all the Sahaja Yogis here – Shri Mataji, may I be permitted to just offer a very small floral tribute to You?
[Shri Mataji Talk]
Shri Mataji: Ladies and Gentlemen. It is very heartening to see so many press people are here. At the outset, I have to tell you that the knowledge of Sahaja Yoga is your heritage. It is an Indian heritage. It comes from India. And so, you have a greater responsibility. To see to it that if you have such a great wealth of knowledge in this country by which you could cure people, you could give them peace, happiness, collectivity, above all, joy; why not we do it?
But we are quite conditioned by the Western thought, and be the Western education and the Western medical science, I’m sorry to say. Let us see what we have in our own country which can provide solutions to so many things.
The second thing is that you do not have to pay anything for this. This is your own. This power is within you; this Kundalini power is within you. You don’t t have to pay; you don’t have to become the slave of anyone; nothing of the kind. It is just your own and which works. And when it works, you know it is tangible. Scientifically it is tangible. The only trouble I find, that people are difficult. They don’t want to open their eyes to something which is so great, which gives you the reality, which is totality.
Now the Sahaja knowledge, I wouldn’t say is modern, or is Mine. We have had this since long in our country. I would say from Markandeya onward, we had Adi Shankaracharya. Then we had Gyaneshwara. Then we had all these people – like Guru Nanaka, Kabira, all of them have described it. But it was kept in such a manner that people thought it was too much philosophic or spiritual, that we cannot [Inaudible/do it].
Indians are the best suited for this. You are born in this country because of special reasons. Perhaps Indians don’t understand that. It’s such a great country, this yoga country of ours, of course, if you see outwardly it looks horrible. But it is not. And while you have a special responsibility I feel, that you can, if you can take it up seriously, you can easily, through your press, through your media you can spread something really good.
Now let us see the problems of today; is that is attention and this and that – is not the only problem. If you go to America you can find out full of AIDS, schizophrenia, I mean people are just destroying themselves from within. Drugs. I mean, what I feel there that people there are just bent upon destroying themselves. They don’t want to think that this is wrong.
This solution is that once you become your self, you have to know your self. You want to try to find out your identity. Everybody tries to find their identity. Maybe in a dress, maybe in drug addiction, alcoholism, anything, whatever it is. And in that, they get lost. I feel very sorry for such people who ignorantly take to all these things and then get destroyed. If just, if they can know themselves, they can change very fast.
It is a very great shock to Me when I went to America. That they could not take to reality. They would accept all kinds of falsehoods, false gurus; this, that – waste so much money on them; but they would not take to reality. They wouldn’t try to understand what it is. And now today, if you see the condition of America you will find out that children of twelve years, even younger are taking drugs.
In Sahaja Yoga, I have seen many people who came to Me first, as Doctor Spiro has told you, in England, they were all drug addicts. Absolutely. And they were sort of dedicated drug addicts. They were thinking this is the only solution for us. They were carrying on like a martyrdom about it. They got realisation. Overnight, overnight, they gave up drugs: overnight. Very surprising. It is something that as if in the darkness you are standing, and you do not know what you are doing. And suddenly you get the light and you give up all that is wrong and destructive.
Same in Russia I was surprised. Thousands of them. Thousands of them suddenly changed. So, it is all within us, this power, which can give you all the benefit of being a human being. It’s very simple. It’s extremely simple. It’s just like this instrument here, I was wondering. Now, this instrument is here, if it is not connected to the mains it has no meaning.
Only thing, you are to be connected to your mains, that is all. It’s all your own power, it’s all your own property, everything is within yourself and which you can discover in no time.
Sahaja Yoga is a very wide subject and I don’t know how many lectures I must have given. Thousands and thousands; in Marathi, Hindi, English – every sort of languages. But still, it is so simple, it is so simple that Ramadasa was asked – who was the guru of Shivaji – how much time it will take for Kundalini to rise. He said “tat kshanna”, that moment. But the person who wants to take and the person who wants to give should be perfect.
Now the perfection in the person who wants to take is very simple. Is that he should have pure desire. He should have pure desire, that is all. No money is needed, nothing is needed, you cannot pay for it. It is a living process. It’s a living process of evolutionary jump. Or we can say the breakthrough. And for that you don’t have to pay a single pie, nothing, no effort is [inaudible], effortless – Sahaja. But only thing is you have to have a pure desire.
Now if you have come here say, with very mischievous ideas and a very arrogant and aggressive attitude, it won’t work out. It won’t. You have to ask for it. Unless and until you ask for it, it will not work out. And you will be surprised once you get it, you will solve all your communal problems, fanaticism, everything is solved.
Now we have people from every religion. We have Muslims, we have Hindus, we have Christians, we have Jews – all kinds of people we have. But we worship all of them. For example, we worship Muhammad Saab, we worship Rama, we worship Krishna, we worship all of them.
There is no question of having any kind of fanaticism because in the light, we see that all these great people were born on the same tree of life. Only we have plucked them, these flowers and we are fighting among ourselves. These are dead flowers. But they are born on the same tree of life. So, this stupidity just falls off.
I have seen people who were great fanatics have changed after realisation. So, it is a chance for human beings to achieve that. It is a very great chance. Let us see our press, how much it is going to help the world to get to this chance. It is a very big chance. And once missed – I was talking to my son-in-law; he is a scholar. And he was saying that the chimpanzees became human beings. I said I do not think all of them were chimpanzees but maybe. And so many were left behind as chimpanzees. Very few became human beings.
So, he said how many do you think will become Sahaja Yogis because the rest of them will be left like human beings and will be destroyed. Through AIDS, through this, through that. I said I expect all of them to get realization I mean if you ask Me that. That is My hope.
But it is for you people, the press people; you do not understand how many powers you have. You don’t understand how important you are. Whatever you write, you see, people believe it. Whatever you say people believe it. You are even more important than the Prime Minister or anybody else. So, at this time if you use your power for the right things, it is a “punya” (good deed). It’s a great thing. So I have to request you just to pay some attention to it. It’s really a serious problem for this country as well as for any country today, because this is “ghor Kaliyuga” as they say.
And all kinds of things are coming; self-destructive things are coming. So, we have to see that at least, if not anything else, please pay some attention to what is happening in your own country.
Thank you very much.
Yes, you can ask Me questions.
Journalist: Have you got any scientific or medical proof to substantiate that diseases like AIDS and cancer can be cured by this Yoga?Shri Mataji: Yes we have. We have one person just now; we have many, but just now we have called one person. Arun, please come. He is an architect, Arun Goyal. He was suffering from blood cancer. And this was, how many years previously was this?
Shri Mataji: Yes. And the doctors had declared he will die within one month. But look at him, he is still here. Then we have many others like this. The other day, one doctor; Hans was it not? Hans from Germany was cured. So many of them are cured of (cancer) like that. And we have also now here doctors from Russia. They will tell you how many people have been cured. Can you tell them, Galyna? We have lots of proof of it, no doubt about it. The doctor [inaudible] come along.
[Doctor Galyna speaks in Russian].
Translator: Respected colleagues, I lead the laboratory of Pharmacology, Neurology. [Repeating for clarity] Respected colleagues, I lead the laboratory of Pharmacology and Neurology.
And throughout my professional life, I have taken on the research into neurological and brain functions. In the Department of Eastern Medicine, we have just opened Sahaja Yoga – a medical, biological centre of Sahaja Yoga. We have started practical research. If you allow, I will tell you shortly about it.
We showed how vibrated water influences the neuron, the nerve cell. Through very subtle methods we observe the potential of these nerve cells. The nerve cell gives a specific answer to the vibrations. And the nerve cell:- the vibrations work on the nerve cell to ease or minimise the electronic emissions. I will not bore you with the technical aspects of it. If anyone is interested, they can ask afterwards.
I will like to tell you about the practices that we have in our centre. We observed 511 people who came to the school of Sahaja Yoga. Two-thirds were women. In essence, all seekers of truth are seeking some way. Most frequently there were headaches, nervousness, stomach irritability, ulcers and GIT type of problems. Every person filled out a special form. And in the process of ten days, he filled out this particular format. I will show you a spectral Victoria system of analysis.
The structure of these sicknesses when he came the first day to Sahaja Yoga. On the fifth day you see,that the symptoms and his sicknesses ease, and the area diminishes and the level of sickness eases. It is a Victorian analysis. Tenth day : Headaches, nervous irritability, insomnias on this side, GIT problems these are all parameters. Conclusions. This ithe area involved with people who feel bad vibrations. If the vibrations of Sahaja Yoga are acting to neutralise the bad vibrations, you get a second diagram. And if he has harmonised himself using the method of Sahaja Yoga – the vibrations have neutralised this – you get this sort of pattern. It means a dimunition in the area.
I have done a lot of work in physiology, but I have not seen a system which works better within the system of neurology.
Shri Mataji: Now I would request some Indian doctor; Doctor Nigam will tell you his experience and then Doctor Talwar can tell his own experience. They are doctors so you will believe them more. But there is one more thing that I would like to tell you. That supposing, I mean we are saying you don’t have to pay money, do n’t have to do anything, nothing of the kind. So the proof, what is it needed for?
What I am saying when we are not asking for any money or anything. It is all right. We buy any medicine and take it without knowing the proof about it. But here we are not taking any money. We are not doing anything. It is all right. If you want to know the proof we will give you. But actually, attitude – I am saying just see , watch your attitude.
Now here we have two eminent doctors. He is a surgeon from Lucknow.
Dr Nigam: Her Holiness Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi. Dear Friends. Here is a man standing before you who was once a very great, successful private practitioner, a medical private practitioner. And in the year1980, all of a sudden while he was shaving, he had a very severe paralytic stroke. Within two minutes a normal human being becomes a cabbage. Since I was a medical doctor I was immediately rushed to the All India Institute of Medical Sciences. There I was treated for one and a half months in Medical Institute. They could not diagnose why I suffered with it. And then, I carried on, to go for my physiotherapy for thirteen months, regularly every day, which is on the record.
Being a medical man, I knew now that there is no way out by which I could become a normal man. At that time I was on crutches. I could not eat anything because my tongue was paralysed. I could not speak properly because my tongue and lips were paralysed. And on this earth, the truth is, I was just like an animal. Just like; I had nothing left in my life. Because being a medical man I knew that now I amnot going to improve at all.
Since there are doctors here and you great journalists are here, I simply want to inform you – in medical science if somebody suffers from paralysis, he definitely gets improved; he gets cured. But in the first six months of the attack. My case starts, my recovery starts after thirteen months of my stroke. I was told by somebody that you try Sahaja Yoga.
In the beginning, I did not believe it. But the day I met Shri Mataji I knew that this is the truth. And from that day on, I am standing before you. I travel a lot. Just to tell everybody that this Sahaja Yoga science is much, much greater science than what we are taught in medical colleges.
Believe it, this is the beginning of the highest science on Earth.
Medical science, I simply give you one example. Just one example. Professor Rai is sitting here. He was the head of the Department of Maullana Azad College. He was a professor of physiology. His wife was suffering with migraine for the last twenty years. And all these doctors, they were giving her four tablets of Compose(?) three times a day. Twelves Composes was given to his wife every day.
Look, he is one of the best medical doctors at least in India. One of the best. And he could not cure his wife. He had all the facilities and amenities with him, but nobody could cure her. And when she joined Sahaja Yoga, she has been cured .
What I have to inform you very humbly, sir, do not believe me. I give an open offer to all of you, with the permission of my Mother, Shri Mataji. I live in Delhi. If any of you or your relationship is suffering from migraine, very simple thing. Migraine means “adhyasar ka dard”. Any of you is suffering – you come to me. Nothing is charged; we will work on you. And see the results yourself.
I throw a challenge to medical science doctors also. Can they cure this disease, migraine? No. Nobody can cure. But you bring to us. If we are able to cure you, then you believe us. Thank you very much.
Shri Mataji (in Hindi):[ Look, now that he has said it, do not bring all the sick people. I request you. Because those who are physically fit and healthy, they are fit for it. They should present themselves and become their own doctors. You people can become your own doctors. You can heal yourself. It is not necessary that you have expert medical skills. There is no need for medicine.
You can just find on your fingers which chakras are spoilt. And you can cure yourself. But what happens is that as soon as a sickness is cured, two or three hundred people appear saying cure our illness also. It is better that you become your own doctors. You are press persons, but you can become your own doctor. By becoming doctors you can heal others yourself and also make great strides in all your activities.
Because with this, there is a type of dynamism that arises in an individual. He becomes calm in away. He understands each thing in a very beautiful way. You just think, in our London, there is a lot of unemployment. But not one Sahaja Yogi is unemployed. They are all employed. And all those who have come to Sahaja, they have progressed so much. It is not that they got money but because the state of their attention became so good that they rose to great heights.
Now the way of a mother is that if she has to give castor oil, she puts chocolate in it. But I add chocolate to chocolate, I can tell you that. ] Hindi ends
Come Doctorsaab. Doctor Talwar will talk to you now.
Dr Talwar: Jai Shri Mataji. Too long and too far to be used to standing behind the mike and talking. Your Holiness, at Your Feet I only picked up only one thing:that there is something like what known as the language of vibrations. And that is what is learned in Sahaja Yoga.
My friend here, one of them asked the proof in the laboratory about the cure for cancer and for diseases. I want to put to you in all humility, the best proof and the best lab is the individual who is suffering from the trouble. It is actually the experience which one goes through with the practice of Sahaja Yoga and bringing yourself into a balance that you literally find –literally find – a chemical and a neurological balance occurring within the body; which ultimately brings your wellbeing and brings you to the balance of ease, taking away your disease.
I only want to share with you my own experience. It is now forty years I practised in medicine as an obstetrician-gynaecologist and ultimately gave it up. Because I found the futility of only following the laboratory. Because the best lab is in within me. And I find that if my lab works properly, the effect of it is felt on theothers also. It is actually correct when you say that the proof of the pudding lies in its eating. Not bythe others’ experience but you eating the pudding yourself.
Till you have the experience of Sahaja Yoga, it is very difficult for you to appreciate. I may be pardoned if I say this, to appreciate the real true meaning of Sahaja Yoga. If I tell you about my experience, it is mine. But I still put it before you.
I was proclaimed as a patient of essential hypertension. And tried as a guinea pig by my doctor friends for a number of years‘till I became a victim of medicine. So much so that the anti-hypertensive drugs which were given to me, gave me more trouble than the disease itself. Ultimately, thanks to Mother and thanks to the practice of Sahaja Yoga, I have not taken medicines for nine years now. And my blood pressure seems to be fairly balanced.
I can also share this that my wife is here, who is suffering from what is called as a poly-arthritis. Had become practically a cripple. And again being a doctors wife, also as a guinea pig of so many medical friends. And she went through I should say more hell, in the process of treatment than the disease itself. But ultimately through Sahaja Yoga, thanks to Mother, she is sitting right here, and she looks very healthy, and she is full of cheer and laughter. Which seemed to have eluded our family for a long time.
And the last thing is, I underwent four operations on my eyes. And at one juncture , they said that my degenerative changes in the eyes had started and soon I shall go blind. This was about twelve years ago. Thanks to Sahaja Yoga, I even drive my car at night.
I can only say, these are very small experiences but very valid as far as the individual is concerned. In all humility I say, friends, this is a subject you should take it along with you. We need the media to spread something which is positive. And not just give the news which saddened us in the morning. Thank you very much.
Shri Mataji: Hamid, you please come. This is Doctor Hamid who is an expert on agriculture. He was a U.N. advisor to different countries for agriculture, and he will tell you how Sahaja Yoga can help agriculture.
Shri Mataji (laughing): You are a real seeker I must say, sir. He is a real seeker of truth. This is a very good question. Very heartening. I will tell you. It will work out in no time. (In Hindi) Your case will be done right now just sitting right here.
Dr Hamid: Shri Mataji, Ladies and Gentlemen. My duty is a little bit different than all the people who are talking to you.
Shri Mataji: Loudly. Go closer to the mike.
Dr Hamid: My duty is a little bit different than all the people who are talking to you beforehand. They are dealing with a human. And a human can speak and tell what is wrong with me, and the people can cure them and think about it, what is…what can I do for these people.
But my subject is in agriculture and my speciality is in wood. AND trees couldn’t speak and couldn’t tell what is wrong with me. We have to have some understanding and to understand the trees. And if you use vibrated water which is produced by Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi and, through Her vibration; and we use this vibrated water in a wood, in a forest, or in a farm, not only we increase our crops, but we get a very healthy wood and through this, a very good and nice environment. Thank you very much.
Shri Mataji (in Hindi): [Your crop can increase ten times. Through vibration. And so huge, understand, that a two feet diameter sunflower was produced, and 250 grams of sunflower oil came out of it. All of this happens through Sahaja Yoga. Animal husbandry can also become all right. And whatever he has done, it is an ordinary seed. It was done using ordinary seeds. So it is a wonder, a miracle. If this is a thing of Parmatma, then it has to be a miracle.
But first of all, we do not believe in God. Come, even if that is not there, you can call this a divine thing. Divine vibrations make all these things happen. He has proved it. Now he is originally from Iran, after that he is now in Austria as a very big agriculture in-charge. He has conducted a lot of experiments there and has written about it. And even here, he had given lectures in two to four universities this time.
Now, will you talk for a while Mishraji? You can tell about your experience. This is Doctor Mishra, he has come from Canada and he is a great scholar.
Journalist (in Hindi): Can you very broadly explain the meaning of Sahaja Yoga?
Shri Mataji (in Hindi): The meaning of Sahaja is, Saha means with you and ja means born with.
Journalist: How long is the exercise?
Shri Mataji: No exercise, sir.
Journalist: Means what?
Shri Mataji: It happens just like that. You sit relaxed and it happens. There is nothing to be done in it.] hindi ends
Dr Mishra: Her Holiness Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi and friends. I am Doctor Ram Mishra and I work at McMarsh University in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. I am full professor of psychiatry and biomedical sciences. I am also a consultant to the United Nations, consultant to WHO. And I am here to provide you some proof which you were asking for Sahaja Yoga; gentleman just has left.
There are a class of peptides in the human system called endorphins. Now, these endorphins play a major role in terms of relieving pain, relieving stress and give you relaxation. They are also involved in directing cardio-vascular and cancer disorders.
So what we did – as a scientist, I generally want to see actual proof. In the test tube I want to see what is really happening. So we called twenty Sahaja Yogis and twenty non-Sahaja Yogis. And after fifteen minutes of meditation, we took the blood from both groups. And we found that the endorphin levels are about 50 to 60 per cent higher in those people who practice Sahaja Yoga for fifteen minutes.
Now mind you, these peptides also go up through other meditations. Like you do simple yoga, and you do the acupuncture, Chinese medicine – Chinese technique to cure the pains. So those things also cause the increase. But the bad thing about acupuncture is that the levels go back to the base level,so they go back to the below normal level and you have the pain again. Through Sahaja Yoga, you can maintain these constant levels. And I can show you this chart here.
Here – I do not know if you can see or not. But there are non-Sahaja Yogis and Sahaja Yogis. Big increase in the male Sahaja Yogis compared to the females. But there is an increase in the females also. But since these endorphin levels are regulated by menstrual cycles so there is a slightly less increase in the females compared to men. And here is the laboratory proof in Canadian people. Like, these are not Indians but they are Canadians who have been practicing Sahaja Yoga.
Shri Mataji: At the end, we will have Gregoire.
Journalist: Madam, I do not dispute the benefits of yoga to the mind and the body. The disturbed mind under stress, tension, I have no doubt that it does bring a certain equilibrium in your body. But what I have not been able to understand are the claims made by practitioners of yoga and meditation and bringing about the peace of mind is that nothing worthwhile in the world has been created by a mind at rest. All the best works of arts, literature, science; , everything has been created by highly agitated minds. Almost on the verge of a breakdown.
Can you give me any instances of people who achieved what you call realisation if they have made any worthwhile contribution to thinking, literature, arts, science, anything?
Shri Mataji (in Hindi): So your statement Sardarji is that peace should come, no? That is what you want,to have peace isn’t it? [Hindi ends]
Journalist: I do not want peace – of mind.
Shri Mataji: No, no this is correct. I agree with you entirely. It is the through agitated mind, everything has happened like that. Now we have to find a solution or not.
Journalist: Solution to what?
Shri Mataji: Solution is there. The solution is within ourselves.
Journalist: I have no problem. All I am suggesting is if you bring the mind at rest to peace, you will create nothing. Except for peace of mind and it is not worthwhile.
Shri Mataji: No, no, you see when you are peaceful, you are the best. Then you become much more creative. In a turmoil, what will you create? Think of a person who is in turmoil. He will only create turmoil.
Journalist: No. All the great poets of this world were in a mind of turmoil.
Shri Mataji: We have created poets in Sahaja Yoga, you will be amazed. There was a Chartered Accountant and he’s become such a great poet today. We have so many poets who have come out. You ask Amjad Ali, he will tell you that through Sahaja Yoga only he developed his skill. So many musicians have come out of Sahaja Yoga; they will openly say that. You can ask them. You see it is the peaceful mind only can create. Not the turmoil. Never, never.
Gregoire, will you please speak. I think you better speak now. This is Gregoire de Kalbertemann. He is in the Union; he is from the United Nations and he will tell you he is seeing turmoil in the United Nations also and all that. He will tell you.
Journalist: I can only quote the greatest poet in the Urdu language who was deadly.. dead against all this practice of meditation and bringing peace of mind. Allana Iqbal. “Khudha tuzhe toofan se aashna na kar de, Ki teri leher ki maujo mein ishtna nahi” – there is no movement in your mind. You’re not agitated. He constantly uses the word “talatum”.
Gregoire: All right. We got your point. Thank you very much.
Shri Mataji: Agitation cannot give you the solution sir. Never. Agitation will create more agitation. Only peace.
[Another journalist joins in the banter – inaudible]
Gregoire: Now I think there is a misunderstanding. And the misunderstanding is that by meditation we do not mean passivity.
Shri Mataji: No, not at all. I think you better tell them.
Gregoire: Shri Mataji, sorry I do not understand anything about medicine. I am just arriving from New York. A bomb blew under the Trade Centre. I am arriving in a country where bombs blow all over the place. I, I – this is not very peaceful. I am aware of the United Nations involvement in Bosnia where Muslims kill Croatian, who are Catholics who kill Serbs, who are orthodox, who kill Muslims who are Bosnians. So this is a bit of creative agitation perhaps, but it is not the kind I enjoy.
What I am trying to say is that Sahaja Yoga; I see its relevance in political terms today. Because the greatest dest abilising factors, now that the ideologies have gone; there is no Marxism and capitalism to hit each other’s heads off, is the revival of fundamentalists, the revival of fanaticism.
And what I found in Sahaja Yoga is, through an experience in consciousness, you find out that what the major instructors of mankind were saying – that there is a way within oneself to touch that place which is pure energy. And that gives a state of mind, which – and I am sorry that the word disturbs you – which is peaceful. But you could also call it ‘energetic’. Because it is an extraordinarily energising condition of mind.
So I feel that if we want to go beyond religious conflict, we want to go beyond this absolutely murderous folly which might destroy hundreds of thousands of human lives, one has to go back to the core of religion. Religion comes from the Latin “relgare” which means to unite. And religion is to unite man with his own being. This is what Sahaja Yoga is. As a by-product, you have medical effects of which I do not understand anything. Thank God I have so many friends who are doctors and can talk about it.
But that peace is the peace of the being. And that is the condition in which Einstein found the Relativity Theory, it is the condition in which Michelangelo painted the roof of the Sistine Chapel, and it is the condition in which Leonardo da Vinci painted Mona Lisa. Now, these are no mean artists and they were realised according to the teachings of Shri Mataji.
Now Shri Mataji – nobody is a prophet in his own country. She is the most impressive, the most complete, the most erudite; I should say the sophisticated spiritual leader of this time. And it blows my mind, that in Her own country, people have so much difficulty to recognise it.
Because from this country so many crooks have come out. So many fake spiritual leaders have come out who have made millions of dollars on the naivety of Western seekers, selling them meditation course to become rich. Now, these are people who have private fleets, private airports. Now, this is nonsense. Rajneesh was taken out of the US with manacled hands because of all the indecent things he had been doing.
We have found out – I am saying us as a Western seeker, somebody who is truly genuine, truly powerful and who can give self-realisation. And that is the message we would like to pass on to you. Sorry, Shri Mataji, I am always getting into [inaudible].
Shri Mataji: I will answer him anyway…to you..[inaudible]. I understand. Now let us see, from where do the problems come. They come from human beings. They don’t come from trees. They come from human beings. There’s something wrong with human beings.
Now, what is wrong with human beings? Take it as a hypothesis whatever I’m saying.. I say it is your centres, your chakras. Because your chakras are out of gear, you have your physical problems, you have emotional problems, also mental problems, and all these kind of political and you can call it social. And all ll kinds of problems come because human beings are imperfect. There is something wrong with them. All right?
Now, if by some method you can correct them, then why not do it? Now see, I am seventy years of age. I am travelling all over the world. If you see my schedule you will say, Mother how do you do it. I am not feeling anything. I mean you won’t call I am the person who is just sitting down somewhere in the Himalayas and just – nothing of the kind. They are all working. They are all very dynamic. And they are producing very good results everywhere.
Now he is a person who is running a very big company. Now he has bought another company. I mean, but because you are peaceful you can do much better. So, to be peaceful is not that you compromise with anything. It is not that, that you compromise anywhere. But the only thing is that when people start becoming peaceful, they start understanding each other.
We have no rapport with each other. We have no rapport. We don’t understand.
With Sahaja Yoga what happens is you become collectively conscious. A new awareness comes in. I can feel you, what your problems are. You can feel Me, you can feel everyone. As a result, what happens, you also develop compassion. And you can correct people. If you can correct them, you correct human beings. Thus you correct all the problems that are created by human beings.
We have to accept; the problems are coming from human beings and nobody else. That is the only point. So what have we to do about it? If we can make all human beings…these are not human beings who will be just sitting down. Nothing of the kind. They are all working, they are very dynamic, they are expressing themselves in every way. Nobody is sort of meditating all the time. Only ten minutes in the evening if you just try to correct yourself, your chakras finished. Nothing more is needed. Only ten minutes you have to give to your growth.
So it is a science which everybody has talked about in a way. Like, I would say Guru Nanaka has said it. That “Kahe re man khojan jaaye. Sada alesa, sada nivasi tohe sang nap aye”. It is he who talked about “Sahaja samadhi”. He has talked about it and by, I would say he has done so much work for it. And Kabira talked about everything like “Ida, Pingala, Sukhman Nadi Re”. Like he says that “Shunya Shikhar Par Anahat Baje Re”. Nobody understands these things. This is what is Sahaja Yoga.
All this we are trying to show you. In yourself. In your Self, it will work out. You will know for yourself; I do not have to convince you. You will be convinced about yourself. So also, that, how much do we know ourselves? How much do we know our powers? You are so powerful, all those powers you must have.
The greatest power you have is of love and compassion. Which acts. This love acts. So, one has to give a chance to yourself, That’s all: give a chanceand see for yourself. Journalist: I would like to ask a simple question. How Your Sahaja Yoga is different from yoga sutras of Patanjali. You see Patanjali is such a great writer. That he says in one sentence what he says is in the whole book. “Yoga sthiti nirodhar” – to stop the process of mind, the Chitta is Yoga. How do you define your Sahaja Yoga? This is what people are not getting. You know, how do you define. Can you define like Patanjali what (Sahaja Yoga is)?
Shri Mataji: All right. I will, I will. Saha means with.
Journalist: No, no, no, no meaning is OK. How is it different from Patanjali?
Shri Mataji: It is not. It is the same. You see Patanjali is the same, but people don’t read Patanjali. They read the only one-sixteenth part which is a little bit. Actually, if you read the whole “Sastanga”.
Journalist: Yes, of course.
Shri Mataji: And then, later on, he comes to the fact that you should become thoughtlessly aware, which is called as “nirvichar samadhi”, “nirvikalpa samadhi”- that’s what is Sahaja yoga.
Journalist: Do you teach those?
Shri Mataji: Of course.
Journalist: All those…So…. Patanjali thing. Oh that’s alright then. But that’s yoga then. Why do you call it Sahaja Yoga, as different from yoga?
Shri Mataji: What should I call it then?
Journalist: Why not yoga? It’s Patanjali’s yoga.
Shri Mataji: We call it Sahaja Yoga because it is spontaneous. It is spontaneous that is why we call it Sahaja Yoga. It is called Sahaja Yoga since long, I am not the one who started this name. But if you call it Patanjali Yoga, it means standing on your head, it is not.
Journalist: What is not? [Inaudible].
Another journalist: You said do it for ten minutes. My question is do what? Don’t say Sahaja Yoga. Do what for ten minutes?
[Inaudible, more questions, short explanation from Raja Shah].
Shri Mataji: The trouble is,your you people are such a great hurry. See, in Sahaja Yoga, you can get your realisation just now also, no doubt. But you have to be a little bit peaceful about it. All right. Because normally what we do is to call you in our centres, or call you in the big programs public programs we will be having. There we give realisation.
But I have seen that in Russia I must say. Russian press was very different and they got realisation. So it is not difficult.
(in Hindi) Those who desire it may put their hands towards Me like this. Whether you have it or not there is no guarantee. But just keep the desire in the mind. What is there to lose by putting your hands like this? Just put your hands like this. Now see, there will be a cool breeze. Both hands like this. That is it, nothing. What these are [Hindi ends]
…these are five, six and seven sympathetic [inaudible]. These are also sympathetic. [Switches to Hindi once more ]When the vibrations come into these, you start feeling the cool breeze. There will be coolness on the head also.
This coolness that you feel for the first time, it is called the Chaitanya. This is the cool breeze of the Holy Ghost that Christ described and here we call it the paramchaitanya. Adi Shankaracharya has called it “salilam, salilam”. Now do you people have some objections to putting your hands like this. Put your hands, what is the objection? This is a chance; I am sitting in front of you. Take it please, what is the hesitation.
You are the first to get realisation, Sardarji people. But do not know where you are wandering. They get realisation so fast, you have been prepared for just this thing.
Feeling the cool breeze?
You are realised. You are realised. You are realised, sir.
Shri Mataji: No, no. Now you should use it and see. Use it and see. All right now check on your head. Check your head.
Sahaja Yogi: Actually the air-conditioning has been shut off. That is why the voice level has changed.
Shri Mataji: What about you? Yes? Do not doubt it, do not have any doubts at this moment. It is doubting oneself. Are you getting it, son? It will come, in a little while. Keep the hands free.
Getting it? Yes? He has got it. What about you? You had a great desire. It is not coming? It will come.
You. The gentleman in front.
There must a lot of heat coming. There is a lot of heat in the body.
[English] Just try these two persons here.
[Shri Mataji is directing the Sahaja Yogis, who are moving about and working on individuals].
Shri Mataj in [Hindi] i: Down below is your Kundalini which is in the triangular form. And when she passes through the chakras, you attain realisation. We do not love the press, to tell you the reason clearly, is that if it does not happen they will write against Me. Now if it does not happen, it means there is a problem within you, is it not? There is no problem within Me.
Sir, you are realised. You also.
Journalist: After this?
Shri Mataji: After this, you come, meet everyone. Yes, it is coming. Now it will feel very calm. Now after this you will see the miracles which will tell you what is Parmatma.
(To Sahaja Yogis): Please see him. Why is it not happening for him? It should happen to him. He is a good seeker. They are getting. [English] Next to that. This gentleman.
[Sahaja Yogis are working on the people].
[Hindi] Sardarji are you realised? Guru Nanak, you give him, on the name of Guru Nanak.
[Journalist Mother is addressing as sardarji is sitting in front of Shri Mataji].
Journalist: [Inaudible/name is Khuswant Singh].
Shri Mataji (to someone): You should get it; you make the whole world laugh. You should definitely get realisation. Please check her, she is not yet there.
Sahaja Yogi: Yogi?
Shri Mataji: Yogiji, please see her. She is not through.
[Mother and Sahaja Yogis continue to work on the people].
Rajesh Shah: If I could have your kind attention for only a moment, please.
I would like to thank all of you for being with us. Sahaja Yoga, even this brief experience, those who have had it, this is only the beginning. Our Mother, Shri Mataji travels all over the world. She has the most gruelling travel schedule that you can imagine. And yet, we benefit.
If you would like to find out more about Sahaja Yoga, several of the Sahaja Yogis are sitting here, you can find out. Tomorrow morning, at ten o clock in the morning, at the Bharatiya Scouts and Guides Club, we have a program where we have invited the public, and where Doctor Rai’s book which he describes, will be released.
We also have a program tomorrow evening at the Constitution Club where all of you are very warmly invited. Where Shri Mataji will be talking to us and you will see over there the en masse realisation program.
On the 21st of March, is the 70th birthday of, for all of us Sahaja Yogis, our Holy Mother, Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi. So I would like to once again, on behalf of all of us here, offer a very small floral tribute to Shri Mataji and wish Her a very, very long life so that we can gain more and through us, the whole society can gain more. Doctor Talwar.
Rajesh Shah: The program sir, is tomorrow morning at 10 o clock in the morning. Sorry sir, 10:30 in the morning at the Bharatiya, which is in Nizamuddin. At Nizamuddin, the Guide and Scouts ground and then at 7 o’clock the program is, it’s a public program in which the book of Doctor Rai will be released. And tomorrow evening is a public program at the Constitutional Club lawns, which will be a general talk; it’s a felicitation of Shri Mataji and a general talk by Her. And an en masse self-realisation, which you have seen in a different setting here. But you will see that tomorrow in their thousands, real seekers will come at 7 o clock in the evening. Then on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday, every morning – we have given this in advertisements today and it is coming tomorrow as well. The program is at 10 o clock every morning for discussions and Sahaja Yoga meditations at this Scout Club grounds.
And in the same location on Tuesday 23rd, 24th and 25th evening, very eminent musicians and artists from all over India will be coming. And there will be programs from 6:30 every evening of music, in the presence of Shri Mataji. We have noticed that when many of these musicians whether its Bismillah Khan Saheb, Amjad Ali Khan Saheb, Professor Debu Chaudhary who plays the sitar, and many, many more; their music in the presence of Shri Mataji is again very different because they are connected. There is something divine about their music, so we invite you to come and be part of that program. Today, we thank you again and invite you to join us in some small snacks. You are welcome to talk to any of us again, welcome to come up to Shri Mataji and talk to Her. Thank you very much.
[Floral bouquet is presented. Applause].
Rajesh Shah: Please do join us for snacks. Do not go before joining us for snacks.
[Inaudible/Mother is talking to Sahaja Yogis. The group departs and sees Mother to Her car].
[End of recording].