Dinner with Ayatollah Rohani

Paris (France)


Dinner with Ayatollah Rohani, Hotel in Paris, July 1993


Shri Mataji: …About what’s happening all around the world about Islamic people. And they said that “Mother we will join you in every way because we will bring peace.” I was very happy.

Ayatollah: Is it?

Shri Mataji: So they said they have had lots of conferences and this and that, organisations but nothing has worked out. And in Sudan, most of them are Muslims. And educated people even in Senegal, I know, are very well-educated people are there. And fundamentalism is not so much in Sudan, but the fight between the two sides of the Muslims; one on the Arabic side another on the African side. I said I will come to Sudan and let us see. In America, we have lots of Iranians. I met them in Los Angeles. There are 900 families, Muslims. And they want their Realisation. They’re very, very good people. 

[Ayatollah speaks in Arabic about a Hadith]

Djamel: He says that there is a Hadith in Arabic from the Prophet. There’s a Hadith which says that “Whoever knows himself knows God”

Shri Mataji: Who knows? Ah, that’s it! That’s the point. I mean, you see, as you know, Mohammed Sahib was a great person, a great enlighted person. And he did say the same thing, I mean. How could he say something else? 

Ayatollah: It’s my son. [In French]

Shri Mataji: Son.

Lady: Nice to meet you.

So they, you see, they have not understood Mohammed Sahib. And worse than them are Catholics. They are the real murderers. Because also there was a problem, this Paul who was, who never met Christ, who was a bureaucratic, who had killed so many Christians, he thought its a very good platform, so he jumped on the platform and he wanted to take over. And he fought with the disciples of Christ. And Thomas ran off to England. He has written in his treaty which we have now discovered this year and is all nothing but Sahaja Yoga. And the worst disciple of Christ was Peter. And Christ has said that Satan will take over him. He (Christ) has said it clearly.

So this Mr Paul got hold of Peter and then he wrote that Christ said that Peter should be head of Christianity, he should build the church, and he should have worked there, it’s all false. Now, think of somebody who is such a bad disciple of Christ, who denied Christ thrice, why will Christ make him the head? And if you see this Paul in the- Paul, throughout he has written many chapters in the Bible. And he wrote that he went to Damascus and met Christ. He never met Christ. And in all that doesn’t write anything about spirituality. He writes how to organise, how to arrange people, all these things like a bureaucrat. And he suffered from epilepsy. 

Now, in Sahaja Yoga, we have proved that epilepsy comes with possessions. And he hated women. So he called Christ’s mother as a woman, just a woman, no even a lady. But because of the Pagan religion before, they wanted to have a Goddess you see. So they said: “No, we will have her as a Madonna”. They promote her, not in the Bible she is not mentioned.

Now, there is also “sharia”. I must tell you about “sharia”. So the Bible has the five books, of the Old Testament, five? [Pentateuch; Torah; Tawrat] they call it. Out of that, the 3rd one is, in English, it is “genma”[unsure] but actually it is “inmara”[unsure] in the Hebrew language. Inmara [unsure] is the name in Hebrew, original.

So he wrote in that book that when Moses came from the mountain and brought the Ten Commandments, he saw a complete decadence and he got so upset with it that he wrote this “sharia” for the Jews. At that time, only for that time. So it was not for Muslims. In Quran, there is no “sharia”. I told you my father was a great researcher, scholar and he wrote, translated the Quran-e-Sherif in Hindi language. He told me all these things, that it was not meant for Muslims. It was meant for the Jews. Also, Fatima was absolutely sort of neglected by the people at that time. They wouldn’t listen to her what she had to say. Her ideas about women were very different from Abu Bakr.

Djamel: Yes, I mean, Abu Bakr was with the other companion.

Shri Mataji: Abu Bakr, with other companions, they just wanted to put women down. For Sahaja Yoga, we worship Fatima. She is a Goddess to us. But. My father has done a lot of research on this and he said that Muslims are misled completely by these mullahs and priests, and especially Sunnis.

Yes, Sunnis. And the Shias are still sort of moaning the death of Hassan and Hussein. But now it’s over. Once you’ve got your resurrection, once you’ve got your Realization, then there is no more, no more at all of moaning should be there. It’s finished. Also, this makes the souls of Mohammed Sahib and also Hassan and Hussain very unhappy to see that you are still moaning. They want you to be happy. They came on this earth to make you happy and joyous. No to be disturbed. There work was-could not be finished. But now, you can see the Qiyama has come and once you get your resurrection then you should no more feel the moaning. It’s over now and we must give them peace in their heart.

In India, these Shias do such horrible things, they have, what you call, chains, and with that, they hit themselves to blood. I mean, I have seen it and I talked to them: “It’s over now.” We have many friends who are Shias and I told them that “it’s over now. You just don’t have to do all these things because it hurts them (Mohammed,) their souls.” And I said: “He is a father, a loving father and a father doesn’t want his children to suffer.” 

Sahaja Yogini: [In Hindi]

Shri Mataji: All right, just a minute.

So I’ve got something for you, sir. Can I give you? [Majid translates]

Ayatollah: Yes.

Shri Mataji: I am your Mother. So, you get over the moaning. I thought that [inaudible] there’s a little thing for you.

Instead of the black now you have to wear the white.


And this is for the neck.

[Majid speaks in Farsi with Ayatollah.]

Shri Mataji: Why don’t you wear it now?

Let Me see how it looks.

A mother can’t see her child moaning.

Shri Mataji: Ah, beautiful. This is for the neck to be put.

Wow! Now, Mother is happy.

And this for you [to someone else].

You see, you open and see.

Antonio: It’s wonderful. She thanks you very much.

Shri Mataji: May God bless you.

You see, normally we never give an empty purse. We never give an empty purse so we have to put something in it.

In that purse is our scent.

This is for him and this is for her [other perfums].

Lady: Merci. Merci madame.

Shri Mataji: In my language, we call it attar. [?]

Majid: Ether. [?]

Shri Mataji: In Urdu language, it’s ether [?] and in your language it’s [inaudible]

Majid: Atse [?]

Shri Mataji: In French language, I know [inaudible] it’s a difficult language.

Once you know English you can’t know any other language. It’s a very dominating language, English is.

Ayatollah: It’s becoming more and more.

Shri Mataji: It’s becoming more and more, yes. Especially in the diplomatic circles, now, English has come up. It used to be French now it’s all English. I don’t know why but it has happened like that.

Ayatollah: t’s nothing. It’s because of the economical domination.

Shri Mataji: Because of the?

Ayatollah: Because of the economical domination.

Shri Mataji: Is it for your family?

Ayatollah: No.

Shri Mataji: Is it [inaudible]?

Ayatollah: No. It’s only to share here.

Shri Mataji: Oh.

Antonio [translates into English what the Ayatollah says in French]: And then the very first letter sent by Muslims was sent by Ayatollah Rohani. The very first letter.

And then, in this letter, he asked them what they think about Islam and what they would like to do to unify the different point of view of inside the Catholic Church.

And he asked that Islam was also be considered in this Council and be treated as the unification of other branches of the Catholic Church. 

Shri Mataji: Of the Catholic Church with Islam: how?

Antonio: Just what the Vatican considers about Islam and also the way that the Catholic Church and Islam could be approached to work in one single way.

Shri Mataji: Yes, impossible.

Antonio: 22 years ago Shri Mataji!

And all these documents are still there proving that is was done 22 years ago.

And he prepared them for you Shri Mataji.

During two years, they were in permanent contact with this Council. And then, after many years of deliberating about this, they did judge and consider that Muslims were a monotheist religion. 

Shri Mataji: Oh, my God! [Shri Mataji is laughing.]

Antonio: And they accepted also that the Muslims believe in the Resurrection. 

Shri Mataji: Ah, the Resurrection?

Antonio: The Resurrection. So, the Catholics approved, accepted the idea that the Muslims were believing in the Resurrection as well.

And until this judgement of the Catholic Church towards the Muslims, the priests used to calumniate the Muslims and to insult them until that judgement.

Lady: Openly.

Antonio: Openly. And sending letters and speaking openly against the Muslims.

And then, after this judgement, the Pope told to all the priests that the Muslims were believing in the Day of Resurrection, that they are monotheists, and they forbid them to say things against Islam. So this was a very great victory of Ayatollah Rohani.

And at that time, the Pope Paul the Six asked Ayatollah Rohani to go to the Vatican to speak with him, to meet him. 

Shri Mataji: Which pope?

Antonio: Paul 6.

Shri Mataji: I see.

Antonio: And then he went to the Vatican and they spoke together about 45 minutes.

And he (the Pope) allowed him (Ayatollah Rohani) to have a big speech to all the priests that were there.

And officially he gave to Ayatollah Rohani the verdict that the Catholic Church accepts that Muslims are monotheists, that they believe in the Resurrection day, and that any priests is not allowed anymore to say things against Islam.

And then the Pope asked him to transmit this verdict to all the Muslims and Catholics.

And then he gave him an award, a golden medal (and a big letter).

 [Shri Mataji is laughing.]

Lady: This was before Lutanie.

Antonio: When he came to Paris, he did an international school and the whole world was speaking about this matter.

To that point, the whole media in France gave lunch in his honour. And mainly in the countries that needed a good communication relations between Islamic and Catholic people.

Then he wrote an article that he published in his own revue that is “knowledge of Islam” showing whatever he had done in this matter previously. And he prepared everything to offer it to you Shri Mataji. 

Shri Mataji: Oh. [inaudible]

Antonio: And one year before the revolution, he founded an association “the monotheist front”, for all those who believed in God. He founded an organisation.

And so this movement was done at Tehran and it was done by Ayatollah Rohani and the Ambassador of Vatican at Tehran.

Shri Mataji: Oh.

It was really warmly welcome at Tehran, this movement was really successful.

Then, he will show you the photograph that was on the first page of the newspaper of Tehran.

Shri Mataji: How many years back it happened?

Antonio: About 14 years. 14-15 years ago Shri Mataji. One year before the revolution.

So nobody else could promote this movement in Tehran except him because he came from very a religious family that has been religious for 150 years. So it was very much accepted.

And he is saying all these things just to show you, dear Mother, that this is the starting point of the work that he would like to do with You also.

Shri Mataji: Yes, very well.

Antonio: The world presently needs You and him and Muslims. 

Shri Mataji: Yes.

Antonio: And he would like You to work hand in hand with him so that this population can live happily and get out of the oppression.

Shri Mataji: Beautiful! [Shri Mataji is laughing.]

Antonio: And when he knew, the very first time, that You are coming to Paris, he immediately prepared this letter, this lecture-

Shri Mataji: It’s very good.

Antonio: To welcome you.

[The Ayatollah says: “I let You eat now.” Antonio answers: “It’s OK, there’s no harm.”]

Shri Mataji: But there is one thing, you see, the Catholics have gone astray completely. You see because they are so money-oriented. This Vatican counterfeited 9 million dollars. Imagine! It’s a religious thing and distributed to its bank. Now, that’s one thing.

Then, the priests are such hypocrites that they have women as their keeps, children. They go to married women. It’s all now in the books in Austria.

And they were asked: “Why don’t you marry?” So they said: “Because the Church does not want to give money to the widows.” Now, also they are abusing, these high priests are abusing children in Canada. There is a book!

In Italy, Christian Democratic Party was ruling for 40 years. Pope told people that: “You must vote for their party”, Pope. And this party is so corrupt! And they killed so many people!

In Italy, I was shocked because this Calvi [Roberto Calvi] was killed was hanged, and the one who murdered him said that: “I am from mafia but the Pope paid me.” See, they are one with mafia and with Swiss banks. In that book, it was written that this Luciani, the one who was before this pope, was murdered. They suspect that this pope (PJP II) was murdered. See, how can this be God’s work? Tell Me.

Antonio: He says that according to him, Shri Mataji, we should separate the reality today with those who pretend to be in the name of the religions. 

Shri Mataji: Of course.

Antonio: We have to be clear-cut that there is a difference between the followers of the real religion who are sincere and they are looking really for the redemption time.

Shri Mataji: They are so simple, innocent. You see, they don’t know what sort of people are there. But these horrible people are still there. They will be exposed. This year they will be exposed. They have crossed all the limits. 

Antonio: He doesn’t want to speak politics with you, Shri Mataji. He would like your communication to the on the spiritual and human level that –

Shri Mataji: But they don’t like Veena? [Unsure]

Antonio: He has a politic life that is apart from that and he would like to tell you something. 

Shri Mataji: Now, what I am saying you are in politics, it’s all right. And you can talk to them on political things. But they have mixed up spirituality and politics. Especially Catholics. 

Antonio: There is a judge worldwide well-known that is Khal Khalid.

Shri Mataji: A judge.

Antonio: A judge in Iran that is wordly well-known.

Lady: Which name is Khal Khalid. His name is Khal Khalid.

Antonio: He did kill 27 000 people after the revolution. 

Lady: After the revolution this very famous lawyer, Iranian lawyer, he killed apparently 27 000 Iranians.

Antonio: He went to the Vatican with a delegation of 3-4 people and he was received by the Pope.

So he [The Ayatollah] reacted very much against this. In all the media, he reacted against them.

And so, he reacted so much that the official represent of the American radio went to Vatican to ask the Pope: “Why did you receive this man whose hands dirty with blood?”

And even if he doesn’t agree at all with whatever is being held in Vatican, whatever else, wherever, his goal is much higher than that because he would like the respect of all the religions.

Shri Mataji: But they cannot, you see, because they are criminals. Vaticans are criminals. They got all these war criminals, protected them, took them to Argentina.

Antonio: Who?

Shri Mataji: These Vatican’s. 

Lady: War criminals.

Antonio: That’s exactly the purpose what he is saying, Shri Mataji. We have to divide and to share one side, the ones who are taking the advantage of religions and on the other side, the ones who are following sincerely a religion.

Shri Mataji: Yes, very much. I’ll tell you, they are so simple, they are so simple.

One man came to Me and he had this problem here [Left Vishuddhi], you see, this comes from the Vatican or from the Christianity. I was born in Christian religion myself. So I know. 

So, you see, he had this problem [of Left Vishuddhi]. So, I asked him: “Why do you feel guilty?” “Because I am a sinner.” I said: “Who told you that?”

So he says: “I have to go and confess al the time that I am a sinner.” I said: “You are not.” He says: “But, I am a Catholic. So what am I to do?” I said: “You don’t confess, don’t go to Church.” He said: “I see this see these priests, they are very money-oriented and they are not good people.” 

And he is a simple man, you know.” And their intentions are not good.” He sees that himself. “But they are human beings, isn’t it? So, I think that God is different and they are human beings.” So innocent! He said- I said: “Then, why do we confess to such people?” I said God is not in the church. He is above. So you should not confess to a man who is not a good man. Then, he was convinced. And then I gave him Realization. But he was so innocent, so simple, educated. 

Such faith they have, I tell you. They are exploiting their faith. 

Antonio: Very interesting. He is saying that even when he sees that he is dealing with some people who are spiritual leaders that are not honest and that he says that he feels obliged to go a little bit in their sense because he thinks about the millions of followers that they have and that have to be saved. And he says you can convince one, maybe two, maybe three hundred. But he says that there hundreds of millions of people in this world that have to be convinced, what can we do?

Shri Mataji: Realization!


But I tell you there was a Sufi in India. And very well known as Khwaja Nizamuddin Sahib. And that even Hindu – [cut in the audio].

[Shri Mataji is talking about the day when She wanted to go in a mosque and policemen were afraid of the reactions of some Muslims. So Shri Mataji asked them who were those people.]

They said: “It is Nizammuddin’s people.” I said: “They are mine!” So, I went there, inside [the mosque]. And, as you say, that gentleman who was supposed to be in charge was a great, great hypocrite. First thing he said: “We need some money”. All right. I said:” How much?” He said: “10 000 rupees.” I wanted to go his way. I thought that you see, this fellow, everybody thinks he is a big Nabib. I gave him 10 000 rupees. Because so many were there, so innocent, good people. And he also said that: “You can come in and this and that.” But he was a hypocrite. Immediately, he took the money, put it on him. But can you imagine? When I came away, he died. It has happened with three like that. So, there is also another force which works. This hypocrisy will be exposed. Now, you see, if this thing happens, then all the people who are faithful, who believe in God, will receive the knowledge. And the time has come for this to be exposed. So, it’s a tremendous force. But they wouldn’t like us, these people who are in charge of religion they wouldn’t like us. Because they are only money-interested. They are not concerned about spirituality.

Ayatollah: Exactly.

Antonio: He agrees with you Shri Mataji.

Shri Mataji: Yes, so.

Ayatollah: Exactly.

Shri Mataji: We have to do something in such a way that it is a-mass evolution. My father told Me the same: “That you have come here for a purpose.” I also knew that. “So, you don’t talk about religion, don’t say anything about it, till you have found out what you have come for.” 

Now my mission was, of course, people used to get their Realization no doubt, there were people who were Nabibs also, everything. But my mission was to create an a-mass Realization. So, because of my father also, because of my husband, I met many, many people. And I could study also what was the problem inside with the human beings, you see. And when I discovered the permutations and combinations, as described in the Quran the seventh heaven was opened. That is how this a-mass business started. The seventh heaven had to open, otherwise, it would not have worked out. So, this is what is troubling these people who are hypocrites that now what will happen to them? They are quite worried because it’s a-mass. Like in that hall, when you were there, everyone raised there hands except for two or three.

Antonio: He is asking if it’s just before you were in London.

Shri Mataji: You were?

Antonio: In London.

Shri Mataji: In London. Yes. London in the Albert Hall. [June, 25]

London is another taken by word. London is -I can’t understand – the whole of that hall, such a big hall!

I think the English are very sort of alert and they are following it up. They are trying to understand. Because in England there is lot of scholarship. Even Prince of Wales wanted to see Me, but he had this problem of this woman. So.

Antonio: Mr. Maliky is a very spiritual man who is very active as well. 

Shri Mataji: I saw yesterday his hands were as cool as ice. 

Antonio: He was teacher in the faculty of Bonn.

Shri Mataji: Of?

Antonio: Professor.

Shri Mataji: But, you see with all this happening now, yesterday they were there, their hands were cool. I was really happy. And you will find out, the life will change completely.

Antonio: He has lot of sympathy for you Shri Mataji. 

Shri Mataji: Now we have to work together. It automatically cures you of disease, automatically. Yesterday, we had an architect there, who had blood cancer, doctors said he will die within one week’s time. And now it’s 8 years have passed, he is still there.

Antonio: His son is a doctor, he’s in charge of 25 patients of cancer in the hospital.

Shri Mataji: Oh my God! So I will tell him how to do it!


It’s the control of the parasympathetic. It’s absolutely scientific and tangible. 

Son of Ayatollah: It’s much more complicated than that.

Shri Mataji: What did he say?

Antonio: It’s much more complicated than that.

Djamel: But she knows it’s complicated.

Shri Mataji: No, no. I will tell you what, we have some doctors now in England, seven doctors.

One of them is a Muslim. Another Amjad is in Australia, now gone, very academic. They are now trying to record how many people have been cured. So we deal with the basic, the sympathetic nervous system and the parasympathetic. And there is one doctor, Rai, who was the head of the physiology department in Delhi University. He has written a book. So, better give him this book and let him have a look at it. And we are going to have conference of doctors, as he has been saying, because we never had any in Europe so far. So, that also I hope you will attend.

Also, there is a symposium of people who believed in the non-racialism and non-fundamentalism, mostly Muslims. First, we decided that they wanted to have big conferences. But I know these conferences are never result-oriented. So, I told them that what we can do is to get people who are wanting to do something about it. Now, then give them Realization. So they go above mental level. And then, these people can form an organisation. There could be Muslims, Christians, anything. Those who believe that fundamentalism and racialism is the greatest danger to humanity. And they can work it out.

We have to move in a different way, not in the normal way of having conferences, organisations. Now there are so many organisations floating in the air. And I told my husband, and he was very happy, he said: “I had enough of conferences.” So he wants Realized souls to be in charge of even UN, my husband says that. That is his idea. And he said that by this because the people will be of a higher awareness, it will be result-oriented. And so we have to do something about it and we are thinking of doing it in September and I have to very humbly request you to come to my humble place.

Antonio: He is asking where will it be held?

Shri Mataji: It is in a small place called Cabella, Italy. It’s a small village, but very beautiful. I have bought a castle there. And it’s a very, very comfortable place. And the people are also very nice. So there were also some communists, also who were coming. And they said they wanted some 5 stars hotel, you see. I said: “You are not communist then if you want 5 stars hotel.” [Laughter]

But we have very beautiful hotels, a very beautiful area, absolutely. It’s in a valley and there are rivers flowing. It’s very beautiful. And if this works out, then we can have a very international forum. 

Antonio: Which date will it be, Shri Mataji?

Lady: 25th, 27th.

Shri Mataji: Please, you should also come. Because you could lead them very well. You see they are more younger people and I think your guidance will definitely be of very great help. You see, they are very well-read people of Islam, I must say. And one of them even knows Mubarak. But as you know in Algeria, and Egypt, all these places, they are having great trouble from the fundamentalists. 

Antonio: He says that this is exactly the problem today.

He says that before this kind of revolution with the present government, Mr Abbas Madani,

Djamel: The chief of the fundamentalist party, Mother.

Antonio: The chief of fundamentalists in Algeria, before he was in prison, he used to phone him and to speak with him about the reality of Islam. And he never listened to him.

Shri Mataji: But they don’t want. They are Jerabos [unsure]. They don’t want.

Antonio: He says this man is moderate, he doesn’t know. That’s all.

So he told him that he should come to Algeria so that they can speak about this problem and try to solve all these, but definitely, the government of Algeria and the French government didn’t want that to happen. 
Shri Mataji: No no. It’s dangerous with them, they are blind.

Antonio: He says that the people is almost lost, because he was betrayed for 25 years. And now there is the unemployment, there is the debt, there is all the social problems. And they do not know what to do.

Shri Mataji: But the solution is not the fundamentalism.

Antonio: He said to him that he cannot held Quran in one hand and problems in another one to solve the problems.

Shri Mataji: Because you see, they to extremes. One side they will become fundamentalism, another side, they become over-indulgent, corrupt, make money.

Antonio: According to him, Shri Mataji, the definition of fundamentalism is that these are oppressed people who reacted towards the dictator and these people didn’t have any knowledge and they just reacted that way, this is his definition. 

Shri Mataji: It’s action and reaction, true. But, you see, they are creating a problem in their own country with their own brothers. You see, their own country is messed up. So, Sahaja Yoga is in the centre. 

Antonio: He has been asked to condemn this man and he said: “No, I don’t want to condemn him. If you asked me to cover a kind of negotiation-” 

Shri Mataji: You’ll never approach him that way. You’ll never approach him. You should not condemn him. But you should tell him once: “Have you seen your own country? These are your own people. You are killing your own brothers.” You see? Now, what is the solution? Why they are doing this and why you are doing this? Because you are in ignorance, you are in darkness. If they see the light, they will see it clearly. This is why they should see the divine light. Then they will see that it’s stupid. Because the government will also realize that this is stupid and they will also realize this is stupid.

Why, you see, what has happened now in Iran is a good example. They fought the Shah, they fought, I mean because they thought that he was not good. But now, what is their situation? Have they improved? Are they better off? Whatever their condition was at the time of Shah, it is much worst.

Ayatollah: Yes.

Shri Mataji: So this is an example to be put to all these fundamentalists that you will not achieve anything.

Now, the best way is that the government people should be given Realization so they’ll become non-corrupt. And the fundamentalists also, the leaders are given Realization, they will solve all problems. There are 500 people already in Algeria who are Realized souls. All right, we have one barrister Achalan, he is a Realized soul. His parents are Realized souls, his sisters are Realized souls.

Djamel: They are quite a few people in the government who got their Realization. They came to the UK.

Shri Mataji: They came to London. 

Djamel: In London and the rest [Now speaks in French]

Shri Mataji: So they have to come to the middle path. Because it’s obvious once they, these militant people come in, they will become equally corrupt. 

Antonio: He says, it will be worse!

[Shri Mataji is laughing.]

Majid: Mataji, he explains the sense of “integrists” and fundamentalists.

Antonio: Djamel is explaining that in English, we say fundamentalist and in French we say “integrist”.

Lady: Integralists.

Antonio: But you said yourself that you don’t agree with the word “integralist”.

Shri Mataji: Inte?

Antonio: Integralist. Because if they were integralists, that means they would be sincere, integrated and they are not integrated. That’s what you have said. 

Shri Mataji: You see, the human beings, whether you are Christian, Hindu, Muslim are just the same it’s a human being. All right. Once, you see, they get the power, they get corrupted. They are very few people who cannot be corrupted. But, anybody, whether you come from fundamentalism or come from this, they are corrupt. Only after Self-realization this doesn’t happen.

You see, now we have people from 55 nations. Some from poor countries, some from rich country, some from, say, who have just come out of communism, all kinds. But nobody cheats, I mean. It’s everything open. We, actually, don’t need much money. It’s done extremely spontaneously, it’s a living organism. I am so bad at banking and money. I am absolutely hopeless. I’m very bad. So they have to write cheques for Me. So, despite that, you see we have no organisation, we have no president, we have no one like that. And I have never seen them fighting or quarrelling, never. No argument. But, we pull each other’s legs, it’s all right, it’s all right. And such purity. Nobody runs with anybody’s wife, nobody looks at anybody’s wife, such purity. No problem on that point, no problem at all. You see, just their eyes become so innocent. Can you imagine? This all is there for everyone. My husband says you have made them angels, really, always he says. He can’t believe it.

Antonio: He is asking, how many people in the world are doing Sahaja Yoga? I said a few tens of thousands, but it’s difficult to say and excluding India because India is much more. 

Shri Mataji: We can’t say.

Djamel: We can’t say, maybe fifteen, twenty, thirty thousand perhaps, you know.

Shri Mataji: We are bad at mathematics, I agree.

Antonio: But we can make a kind of count. You are travelling for 23 years Shri Mataji giving 20 conferences per year minimum. And every conference thousands of people, so.

Shri Mataji: No, no. In Russia it’s 16000, 18000. In India like that 16000, 18000.

You know, places where I never expected also, I’m surprised, never expected. Just spreading like fire. And how they have changed, you know! They were all, some of them were very great cheats in the government. They have given up. I never told them: “Don’t drink”. They don’t drink. The drugs, they gave up overnight. I never told this. If I tell them, half of them will go away! No smoking. I mean, it’s such a pure life. And they enjoy their virtue. I don’t have to say: “Don’t do”. They just know what is –

Yesterday, those who were playing, come from a community in India which is called as scheduled caste, it’s the lowest. And my brother worked on them; and look at them, can you believe? How talented they are! And we have many musicians, Muslims. They played in my presence and suddenly they got it. And they are famous all over the world. 
Antonio: He could see the sincerity. 

Shri Mataji: Yes, very sincere, simple and straight forward. 

[A lady wants to take a photo with Shri Mataji] 

Shri Mataji: She’s got her Realization all right.

See her eyes. Sit down, see on her head. Shes has got it. She’s feeling it. She is very religious.

Lady: Yes.

Shri Mataji: This is the “ruh”.

What is it?

Lady: Arthritis.

Shri Mataji: She has arthritis all over?

Lady: She has some arthritis here.

Shri Mataji: Only in the hands? Can you take out your watch? Only here?

Lady: Only here, also here.

Shri Mataji: Just now, I told her to put her hands. This is the centre that is expressed.

She should not feel guilty at all, for anything. Not at all, never.

You see, we are human beings after all. We are not God. You tell her.

So we make mistakes, doesn’t matter. God is forgiveness.

Antonio: She hopes so, Shri Mataji.

Shri Mataji: He is. He’s our father. All right?

Antonio: She said that she’s sweating.

Djamel: Because of heart.

Shri Mataji: Heart, only on the heart. If you catch this centre, you get angina, the heart. He can show you, angina.

Djamel: Also she has this catch between heart and Vishuddhi. Just above the heart.

Shri Mataji: What’s that?

Antonio: Lalita chakra?

Shri Mataji: So, if you clear out her Vishuddhi, she’ll be all right.

Now, you see, better? What is she saying?

Antonio: Very well.

Shri Mataji: Ah. See doctor? She is cured! [Laughter] 

Just see, ask her to move.

Son of Ayatollah: Yes. My principle is that I don’t say that something is impossible.

Shri Mataji: Yes, of course.

Son of Ayatollah: Everything is possible.

Shri Mataji: But we should open ourselves, doctor. You see, as a scientist, we must have an open mind. There could be something beyond science also. Because parasympathetic, the doctors don’t know. There are so many things they don’t know. So go to the basis. The fundamentals. It’s much easier. 

Shri Mataji: Ah, now you’re all right. Her hand is cured, you see.

Can you show him, it’s cured now.

They should not wear black any more in Iran, they should not. It’s over now. No more. It’s finished. 

Antonio: I am explaining Shri Mataji, that, all that you are doing that you are curing people, giving Realization, but you are also giving the power to all these Realized souls to do the same.

Shri Mataji: Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. No doubt. You can cure also. Of course. It hardly takes one month to master it. One month. Not seven years of education of medical science.

Son of Ayatollah: We need seven years to start medical science.

Shri Mataji: I did the same that’s why. 

Shri Mataji: She thinks too much. The daughter in law didn’t eat her food. Where is she?

Antonio: I don’t know.

Lady: She’s gone out.

Shri Mataji: She didn’t eat her food. She (Victoria) has liver, lots of heat, she has liver.

Shri Mataji: Better now?

Lady: Better. Heart is better, left Nabhi is there.

Shri Mataji: How is she?

Antonio: She feels better, she is good.

Lady: Peaceful. Still Agnya.

Antonio: In Iran, there’s a lot of Agnya and Left Nabhi, Shri Mataji. He was the same at the beginning, Shri Mataji, a lot of Agnya and Left Nabhi.

Majid: Also, I was the same.


Shri Mataji: They think too much, they think too much.

Majid: We have so many problems in Iran, every day we think about everything.

Shri Mataji: Here?

Majid: Yes.

Antonio: They keep on thinking about all these problems going on. 

Shri Mataji: But with Sahaja Yoga that you don’t think and problems are solved

Majid: Yes.

Shri Mataji: Better now. Ask her to watch Me without thinking.

Antonio: I’m saying because she says: “When we think, we cannot help it.” I say that we can do in Sahaja Yoga. And you’ll see that when the thoughts will be lower then you’ll feel much more peaceful.

Shri Mataji: Now, you are no thinking.

Antonio: She says, right now I am not thinking.

Shri Mataji: Ah! Beautiful. [Laughter]

Take a photograph at the end.

Majid: I think it’s perfect.


Shri Mataji: She’s quite enjoying it. Please stay for a while. Nothing serious, smile.