Energy Centers are our foundation

New York Society for Ethical Culture, New York City (United States)

1993-10-16 Public Program, New York, Part 1,2 & 3, 116'
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Public Program, New York (USA), 16 October 1993.

I bow to all the seekers of truth. At the very outset I have to tell you that truth is what it is. You cannot change it, you cannot transform it, and you cannot conceptualize it. Unfortunately at this human level with your awareness, you also cannot know it. There’s something more has to happen to us to know the truth. In the evolutionary process, we have come to this stage where we are human beings, and whatever we have got in our evolutionary process, we can know it on our central nervous system.

For example, this beautiful hall, when we are here, we can understand the beauty but a dog or a horse, cannot. A dog and a horse can always pass through a dirty lane, but human beings cannot. Thus, we have to understand that there are many things we have come to know through our central nervous system in our evolutionary process.

You’ve been already told about this subtle system that exists within you. Whatever I am going to tell you today, please do not take it for granted, nor you should believe me blindfolded. We have already done these things, and we have suffered. But if it can be proved, then as honest people, you have to accept it because it is for the benevolence of your being, for the benevolence of your country, and for the benevolence of the whole world.

It is to be accepted, that though the civilization has grown so big, this big tree has grown, but we do not know our roots. We have no knowledge of our inner being and this big tree cannot sustain unless and until we know about our roots.

I do not think about East and West. It’s like a tree and its roots are just the same. In the same way if this knowledge has to come from the East, we should not shirk it, and we should not say, “Because it is coming from the East, so we are going to be suspicious about it.” There has been, I know, many people from India, lots of false people who came to this country. Also you have lots of false people in this country, and many other countries who are trying to extract money from you.

Even when you turn to religion, you find that they are either money oriented or power oriented. None of them are spirit oriented. But also it depends on us, to find out what is the truth and the person who is trying to tell us about the truth, how far truthful he is, how much right he has got to say that.

It is very easy to deceive people in a country like America, because materialism has taken over, with materialism we become superficial and our depths are lost. Anybody who comes with some sort of a gimmick, we fall a prey for that and we accept all these things even without thinking. Today I’m here to tell you that one thing is for definite, that for your evolutionary process you cannot pay. How much did we pay for becoming human beings? And how much are we going to pay for this new breakthrough? Now, the truth is that you are not this body, this mind, this ego, or these conditionings; but you are the pure Spirit. You always say this is my body, my ego, my conditionings, my feelings, my emotions. Who is this “my”, who is the one that owns all these things? That is the one, is the Spirit.

Another thing we have to understand that, the truth is that there is an All Pervading Power of Divine Love. We see these beautiful flowers and such beautiful trees all over, we take them for granted. It’s a miracle, it’s really a miracle that a seed can produce such beautiful flowers or such great trees, or we take them for granted. If we ask a question, “Who runs our heart?” The doctors would say it is the autonomous nervous system, but if you ask them, “Who is this auto?” they can’t answer. Look at our eyes, it’s a beautiful camera, who has made this, this brain of ours, is the best computer that you could think of, who has done this job? Is this All Pervading Power which has given us evolution, and that today we are here as human beings.

Now there’s a little breakthrough, little journey for us to have the new breakthrough, where you are going to be connected to that All Pervading Power of Divine Love. Without that, we have no meaning, we have no identity. Like this instrument [pointing to microphone] if it is not connected to the mains, it has no meaning. You won’t hear Me, in the same way, unless and until this connection is established, this yoga is established, we have no meaning, no identity and we run here and there to find our identity.

These are special times, like I call them “Blossom Times”. Because many seekers of truth have come on this earth at this special time, like flowers and they are to now to become fruits. But it is also called as a Resurrection Time, as the Last Judgment or as Qiyamat in the Koran. Now, the idea of resurrection is rather absurd, that it is said that our dead bodies from the graves will come out and they will all be resurrected. It’s absurd, because for so many years people have been kept there in the graves and there’s nothing left there, there’s, but just some bones might be there and you can’t give resurrection to bones. But the Indian idea about it is correct, that, in those days, at the last judgment or we can call it as the resurrection time, that time, many people will take their birth, their souls will take their birth and will come on this earth, and they will be resurrected.

We find today there are so many people born and we are worried about the population. But these are all the souls who are taking birth and they are to be resurrected. This has been predicted in many books in Indian scriptures and also in Indian philosophy. These people will be born to get their Realization and also to be judged. That’s why we sometimes these days find horrible things happening, horrible type of people we can’t understand how could such human beings exist?

After all, they behave worse that animals, and it is impossible to understand how even small children, how even people who are talking about religion and God are becoming so stupid and so filthy, that it’s not possible by any imagination that human beings would go to that level. I might be the oldest woman here, I don’t know, but I think when I was born and for quite some time there were very nice people. But after some time this decline started and it’s so fast moving that people don’t even feel the impact of this decline, which is really shocking.

So now, by talking about it, by having lectures, by having seminars, by doing this, it’s not going to work out. You have to transform human beings. Most of the global problems are because of human beings. We have to admit, humbly. Now, these global problems are depending on human beings and the problems of human beings are because of these centers. When these centers are out of gear, because they are our foundations, we suffer physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually. So, our main concern should be to get to these centers and find out, how we can correct them and how we can have the correction of our being. As I told you they are responsible for our physical, mental, emotional and spiritual being.

When this Kundalini rises She passes through these centers and She corrects all these centers not only that She integrates them and ultimately She breaks through this fontanelle bone area. Now, first thing you feel is this all Pervading Power of Divine Love, which is like a cool breeze, we say Cool Breeze of the Holy Ghost. This is the reflection of the Holy Ghost that you see, is your own Mother. Now I don’t know why Mr. Paul didn’t want any mention of the women in the Bible, and he didn’t even mention the Primordial Mother, though he talks of the Father, God Almighty, His Son, and no Mother, it’s a Holy Ghost, or a doe. What about the Mother?

In every country, in the ancient times, like Greece has Athena, Ath means Primordial, Primordial Mother, China, any country you go to, they all believed in the Primordial Mother. But in the Bible they have removed that. Even in Judaism there is the mention not only mention but quite a description of the Primordial Mother. Now, after that, even the Islamic thing, we see that Mohammed Sahib did respect, very much Mother Mary, but in the Bible there is no respect for Mother Mary. This is one thing I find in the Western society that women are really very insecure.

This insecurity is so much, you see so evident, because every woman has to be like an actress all the time trying to pamper the man’s ego, all the time struggling to be attractive and all those things. In that, how far they have gone I don’t know. But you are the power; the women are the power, the potential power behind the man. If once that is accepted I tell you lots of problems can be solved. Women will be respected and this struggle will be finished. It’s a fact. Even in England, supposed to be such an advanced country, they were finding it difficult to appoint a woman as a priest. It’s so primitive I think. In India, always they think a woman is a Shakti; this difference has brought quite a lot of problems for our ladies in the West.

Now, you have to understand that in the realm of God, there is no difference between a woman and man, they’re on the same level, and they all have the same rights to achieve their spiritual ascent. It’s the wrong idea to put down 70% of population into jeopardy while the 30% are something highly placed. I’ve seen your films and things. Of course modern films sometimes and I’m shocked that only always they should try to show the women as nude. Men never become nude as if they are sanctum sanctorum or something like that, On the contrary a woman needs her chastity, her power is in her chastity. I’m sorry I have to say these things might be now out of date maybe in this country, but I am your Mother, and I have to tell you the truth.

This Kundalini is your Mother, your individual Mother, and She is waiting for a chance to give you your second birth. You are to be born again, but born again is not a brand, that I’m “born again.” It is something that happens, it’s an actualization of happening that takes place by which you become a realized soul, become a saint.

It’s a very different thing from branding yourself that, “I’m a Christian, I’m a Hindu or a Moslem.” Anybody who is a Hindu, Christian, Moslem, can commit any sin. If these religions are complete, then why is it happening? I believe they are complete, why is it happening, because the human being has not got that yet, that power to sustain it.

The reason is once he is absolutely one with this All Pervading Power, then he has not only the power, but he becomes righteous. He becomes a real person, it’s a something like in the darkness or in the ignorance we are afraid to do many things, and we do many things thinking that nobody will find it out. Actually there, whatever is outside is inside and a person becomes so transformed he becomes absolutely fearless.

You have seen the example of Christ. Christ had nothing to do with Mary Magdalene, nothing to do. It’s a different character, this is a different character.

There are many people who are waiting outside, and these people are getting up and walking out. I just, have some patience, this is, I can’t understand, really. I think those who are to go out, can go now, and don’t disturb later on. There should be certain amount of depth. I am telling you of something which is so important to you and to everyone. You have no idea what you are missing. So those who have to go could go out; but don’t disturb otherwise, it’s not proper, it’s not civil. Half of the people are waiting outside because they have no room.

So now, at this time, at this juncture, when we call it the Modern Times, according to Sanskrit description it is the worst time, what we call is the Kali Yuga, where it is the worst time, all kinds of illusions will be there. People will be living in all kinds of illusions; they will suffer and all kinds of horrible things they will try to do; which you would never expect them to do. It is a description which is so precise. So many details are there, in that, that you are amazed to see how it was seen long, long time before that such a time will come. But the beauty of this is one; that at this time only people who are seeking the Truth, who are seeking God will find and that’s what it is today; we have to have our Self Realization.

The Spirit which is within you is a collective being and once you are awakened into the light of Spirit, you become a collective being. That means, on your finger tips you can feel the centers of others also as you can feel yourself. By knowing yourself you know the self knowledge, the inner self knowledge and by knowing others you are in collective consciousness.

Now if you know how to correct these centers, then you solve the problem for yourself, but also you can correct the centers of others. You can even raise this Kundalini, you can give awakening, and I know of people, one person, in Russia in Togliatti, gave Realization to 22,000 people.

But Russians are very different, I must say. They didn’t have this kind of a freedom and so they were very introspective, very introspective. While we used our freedom for something not so important, not so useful. As I was telling you that, last time when I came, first time, I stayed with a man who was very rich person, very, very rich and he told Me that when I got into his car, that his handle of his car is made in such a way that, it opens the other way around. I said, “But why?” he said “It is my individualism, my own creation, it’s my.” I said, “This is wrong, because supposing somebody gets into your car and he does not know to open, he will die, you see, so why make such a thing?”

Then, when I went into his house, he told Me about his bathroom, he said, “Be careful if you press one button, You will jump into the swimming pool”, I said “Why?” He said, “You see, it is my genius, you see, which has worked this, see now.” I said, “But I don’t want to jump into your swimming pool, you give Me a simple, very simple bathroom, you see, I am used to a simple bathroom.” Then he tells that, “This is my bed, you press this button, your head will come up, you press your feet, your feet will come up.” I said, “I can put My feet and head up Myself; it’s absurd. I mean, supposing I touch some button and I suddenly find standing on My head?” So this is not the way. I said, “I’d better sleep on the grounds, this is safer”.

So this is how I thought this man spent his money, and his energy, and his all education. Everything he had different. The tiles are different, this is different, that is different. And the dress he was wearing like anybody else. I said, “What dress are wearing?” He said, “This is the fashion.” Like a fashion starts say, in Paris. 6 inches of skirts. So in the cold of Switzerland also, ladies are wearing 6 inches of skirts. I mean, use your brains. I don’t know; these entrepreneurs have blinded you so much with their bombardment of advertisement and all that. That it’s impossible to get of out of it; even small children. The other day I met a child and he said, “If you are going to America then you get me a teddy bear with a birth date.” I said, “With a birth date?”, “Yes”.

So anything they start nonsensical works out; these entrepreneurs have really enslaved our brains and whatever they put up in the market, they know they have money, they can put more big business out of it; advertise. So people go in for that, and now I am happy to see that many are getting exposed; but they are like mushrooms, again some of them after will come up and bring some new ideas and new ventures.

For us it is to understand what is good for us and what is not. Mostly nowadays, it is happening that the things that we see is very dangerous because most of them are destructive. We are getting destroyed from within. The reason is first, we have no knowledge of inner being. We don’t know ourselves. We have to find out ourselves. Christ has clearly said, “Know thyself.” Every scripture has said, “Know thyself.” Of course, in the Indian language, that is Sanskrit, is called a person who is enlightened as he is a “dvija” means is twice born, a bird is also called as “dvija” means first he’s born like an egg, and then he becomes a bird, in the same way first we are born as human beings and then we become enlightened people.

Now, this enlightened business has been very much here in the shops I think, quite a marketing has been done, and they are very good marketeers, I can tell you, they are so good at it that really, anybody could be befooled by their tricks and gimmicks. So I am not surprised at that; but what I am surprised at that how people believe all these gimmicks.

First of all, how can you pay for your evolution? That’s first thing I tell you, secondly you should find out what are the disciples doing, what sort of a life they are leading, how much knowledge they have, what do they talk about, what sort of a life they lead? Without that, without using any discretion if you jump, then look, there is a market of it; and people are really doing guru shopping. I told about this when I came in the year 1972 in America. In New York we had a program and we had also in New Jersey. There were hardly ten to twenty people and Washington we had only four. The other day, in Washington, somebody told Me of course now it’s all full, he told Me that I had cured his father, out of the four he was one of them.

But now at least, please try to understand, that your value system is to be raised higher and try to understand that you are not so cheap, you are not so useless. You are human beings; you are at the epitome of evolution. So value yourself, understand how important you are.

Unless and until you understand this, I don’t think we can have any transformation, because for a human being he is just nothing, mostly. Like if you take say a small box of television in a remote corner, where they have never even seen electricity, and tell them, “You will see some nice films in it ,” they’ll say, “What, this box, how can it show any films?” In the same way we think we are boxes. We have no value for ourselves, even when we are seeking, we don’t know what we are seeking, and that’s the reason so many I know, so many good seekers have been mislaid and have suffered and have become recluses or have died and are suffering from all kinds of diseases.

This is one of the reasons one has to understand why we have been in a wrong line and we have to now correct ourselves.

I know some people may not like if I tell them that it was Freud. Freud, now of course they are writing about him, “Fraudulent Freud”, and also I have read another book, is the “Fall of Freudian Empire”, and all that. Now, when he has already ruined people by his ideas. He was worshipped like Jesus Christ; I couldn’t believe. When I came here in ’72 there was a lady who came to see Me with a little child of twelve years. Very sweet child; and she told Me this boy has taken drugs. I said, “Drugs, this little thing?” I couldn’t bare, I just took the child, put to My heart, and I said, “My child, why are you taking drugs?”, I kissed him, he looked at Me like this, he said, “My mother never does this to me.” I asked the mother, “Why don’t you do it?” She said, “I will have guilt.” First I could not understand, what is the guilt is. I mean, even in India, I mean a big boy will come and hug his mother and kiss her. How these ideas have been put into our heads, and we are trying to do things, which, which cannot be explained why they are doing all these things? But when I read Freud, I understood, that this man has put very false ideas and now of course there must be some people who must be doing psychiatry, and all that, and blaming all the parents for all the wrongs you are doing, as suggested by Freud, and some people may not like it, but I must tell you that it’s a wrong thing to do.

You must understand that he has talked of things which are very unnatural, which are absurd, which are absolutely have no substance in it. Such a man was accepted, but he was more accepted here than in Austria from where he came. When I told them about it, they all clapped and they were very happy that I was criticizing him. But not in America; they are some sort of wedded to him. So again I have to tell you, that you have to understand that this kind of nonsensical ideas if people put it, you should first judge them and find out how these ideas have settled down in the society.

I’m really concerned about Americans, really concerned, because what I feel that there are beautiful seekers here, so many seekers of truth are in America, and they are nowhere so many and how much they have been mislaid by this kind of a Freud business or another is some sort of a cult, or some sort of a evangelist or some sort of a nonsense, they’re all being entangled as if some sort of an attack of the evil forces on them.

Our children, I feel, I’m surprised how the children are going into this kind of a turmoil. They are to be saved; our progeny has to be saved. We talk of having a good family. You can’t. You can’t, unless and until you get out of it, completely, because the society is such, the whole ideas are such that you can’t get out of it, there’s such conditioning. So the best way is to get your Self Realization.

On this map you can see, one side is your conditioning, and on the other side is your ego. Both these things are like this, touching on your brain, when this Agnya chakra, which is on the optic chasma, gets awakened by the Kundalini, these two pouches are just sucked in, and you really become a real free person. It’s a fact that people have given up drugs, alcoholism, all kinds of destructive habits, all kinds; I don’t want to tell them, because half of you might leave. So I don’t want to tell you what habits that they have given up, but they become so pure; so beautiful, so angelic.

I can understand Indians because their culture is such that they are really frightened to do anything wrong, but in a culture where there is , freedom, do what you like, what’s wrong, you ask anyone, “Why are you putting this red stuff on your head?”, it’s very bad for your eyes, those punks, they’ll say, “What’s wrong?”, but it spoil your eyes, so what’s wrong? This kind of a very arrogant freedom which doesn’tt give any clue to our benevolence, we have to look after ourselves, we have to know what we are, and we have to understand that we have to play a very big role, very big role, especially Americans, have to play a very big role.

The other day some question was asked, “Why should Americans be policeman everywhere?” They have to be jolly well, because they are placed in this center here, in the Vishuddhi, this is the center for collectivity, this center, is for collectivity, for responsibility, for communication. This center is very important and if you are born in America you have to be responsible for the whole world; whether you like it or not.

The defects of this center causes many diseases also, but also it makes a person a very artificial. He says something does a lip service, but nothing from the heart, no sincerity inside, just outside he says and just gets lost with it. As a human being, we cannot be insincere, we cannot. But after Realization you cannot, because you become a sincere person, you become, just can’t help it. You become very honest, you become fearless; above all your attention becomes very pure without any lust and greed.

I have not seen, now we have 55 nations who are following Sahaja Yoga, I have not seen anybody flirting or anything. We have never had any case where a man has ran away with somebody’s wife or anything, nothing of the kind, they’re very pure people; such purity. It happens because of your attention, but this attention becomes so active and so powerful that if you pay attention to someone, this innocent attention can correct that person, can also emit peace and joy.

We are thinking, a thought comes up and goes down, again a thought comes up and goes down, we are jumping on the cusp of these thoughts, which are coming from the future and the past, but we cannot be in the present, if I say, “You be in the present,” you cannot.

So what happens when this Kundalini rises, these thoughts elongate, and the space between the two also increases and you become absolutely peaceful, no thought, thoughtlessly aware, Nirvichara Samadhi, thoughtlessly aware. Then, you watch, now this is a beautiful carpet, I watch this in thoughtlessly aware state. Then I don’t want worry about it, supposing it is mine, I’ll be worried somebody will be spoiling it, and I’ll have insure it and all that. Suppose it belongs to somebody else, then, I will think how much it must have cost; I should have one, and all that. But in case when I am in thoughtless awareness I just look at it, and the joy of it’s creation, itself, in a formless form just starts pouring down My head and sooths Me and absolutely relaxes. It happens like that, so one reaches that state we call as thoughtless awareness. This thoughtless awareness state is the state where you are at peace with yourself and with everyone; actually that is the state of your peace.

Even so, we have seen in the world there are people who have got how many awards and things, and peace conferences, this, that. Now I’ve met those people, somehow it happened, my luck was such that I met such people and I found them to be extremely hot tempered people. I mean, if you have to meet them, better take a barge pole sort of people, and they have got all these awards, and we are very much enamored, oh, they have got peace awards. It has no meaning, because they have no peace within themselves.

If you don’t have peace within yourself, how can you give peace to others? You have to have that peace within yourself. You are the source of that peace and you are the source of that joy, but you haven’t yet reached that state, which is within you. All these powers are within you, is your own; this Kundalini power is also your own; and that whatever is going to happen is going to be a light by which you will see the knowledge yourself.

So it has to work out in such a manner that you should be empowered, you should have the power, you should know what’s wrong and what’s right, I don’t have to tell you. I give a simple example, that if there is a snake in my hand, and I’m obstinate, and very egoistical, and somebody says that, “There’s a snake in your hand, it’s darkness,” and I’ll say, “No, it’ s not a snake, it’s a rope,” till the snake bites me, I’ll be going, I’ll be saying, “No, this is not a snake.” But if there is little light, then immediately I leave it, nobody has to tell it, because I’ll see it.

In the same way, when this enlightenment takes place, you see yourself, what is destructive to you and what is constructive, you see for yourself, and immediately you do it, whatever is needed to be done. It’s very surprising, how it works out so spontaneously. I’ve seen overnight people changing like that, overnight.

There was lady who came, I didn’t know, they said, “Mother, she’s a prostitute.” I said, “Let her be, let her sit down.” As soon as she got her Realization, she started crying. She came to Me, “Mother, said I am very sinful”. Forget it, past is over. Finished; doesn’t exist now any more. Now you have become, like a lotus out of the pond; you are so beautiful, forget it. That’s how it works out. So in this short time I don’t think I can tell you a lot about yourself, first you should get your light. Like this room has got so many lights, and when you come in you just have to put on the switch and you get the light. In the same way, you are all built in with this power. I don’t have to do anything, it’s all built in, very beautifully and it works in no time.

Only thing you must have determination to grow, many diseases have been cured, I know, there have been cured. There are three doctors who have got MD in Delhi University and also we have so many people here who have been cured with Sahaja Yoga, cancer, all kinds of diseases have been cured with this.

Now, in this short time I would just say that as the light is easy to put on, it’s very easy to give you Realization. But if I have to tell you about the history of this electricity, how it was brought here, and how it was put here, you’d be all bored stiff and it’s good for nothing. So best thing is you get all your enlightenment and then we can know everything about ourselves. It’s so beautiful, you don’t know how fantastic you are, you have no ideas, because you have no idea of your inner powers and of your inner self which is sustaining your life, which is your being.

But one thing I have to tell you, in modern times, it’s a collective happening. Like the whole body, if anything happens to it, the whole body jumps, put attention to that part. But if a nail is cut out, it doesn’t grow. In the same way, you have to please come to our centers and learn everything about it and grow into it. At the most, will take a month, at the most, to master it. Some of them get it without any difficulty, the second state also they get it, which we call as the Nirvikalpa Samadhi, where there’s no doubt.

You are absolutely empowered, you can give Realization to anybody, you can cure any person, you know each and everything. That state you can achieve within month’s time because the time has come and you are special people who are seekers. William Blake has said that at that this time, people of God will be born, and they will know about the Divine, and they will make also others Divine, that’s the stage. It may appear to you something very out of the blue, but it’s not.

Now, New York, I’ve been here before, I’ve told you, but in other countries, it is spreading like fire. Because I think they didn’t have so much of freedom, and so much of indiscreet permission to do whatever they liked. So they are understanding the wisdom behind it. It’s so important, and they’re working it out. I’m sure the people in New York also will try to understand how important you are and that you should not only get your Realization but you must grow into it and become great Sahaja Yogis.

It will hardly take about 10-15 minutes for you to get your Realization. It doesn’t take much time but in any way I don’t mind for 15 minutes if you have some questions to ask Me. But ask questions which are relevant and sensible, only about 10-15 minutes because if you go on answering, there’s no end to it. Moreover I have been doing this kind of work for the last 24 years and I’m now quite an expert in answering questions. Whatever questions you may ask I’ll be able to answer, but I tell you it’s a mental acrobat, that’s all, and it is of no use because it doesn’t guarantee your Realization. So if you have really, genuinely any problem, please ask Me a question, it’s all right, because you have freedom to ask…Yes Please?

[Audience]: Summary of Question [unclear]: Is it possible to remain enlightened in a stessful environment?

Shri Mataji: When I told you that you reach the state of your peace, actually you become a witness. You become the witness of the whole drama. See the whole thing as a drama. It’s like this, when you are standing in the water, say in the sea water and there are waves coming up, you are frightened of the waves. But supposing you are put in the boat, then you enjoy the waves, all right. But supposing you become an expert swimmer, you can jump down and save people. It’s really like that happens, you never develop the stress or anything. Now as you know I am a very old woman, and I’m traveling all the time, but I never feel the stress I don’t know what sort of a thing it is. I’m asking people what happens when you get stress, what is it? I just can’t understand because a hole is made, I would say, the whole stress and all this passes out.

[Audience]: Question unclear, moderator confirms to Shri Mataji

Shri Mataji: Of course, of course, it’s true. That’s true. Moderator confirms: “She wants to be helped with her medical problems.” Yes, yes, you will be, definitely, 100%, you’ll have to come to our centers, and they will tell you. It’s very simple. They will tell what is to be done and you can be cured, all right?

[Audience]: Moderator confirms: she wanted to be helped with her medical problems.

Shri Mataji: She wanted to be helped in her personal medical problem. So I told her she has to come to our center where they’ll tell you how you can cure yourself, and actually with Kundalini awakening itself you get cured, but if there is something left out, they will clear it out for you, it’s not difficult.

[Audience]: I have two small children, and I’m running a home, and I have a lot of anger towards men, my husband, and I find it is really interfering in keeping the family balance, and the things that you mentioned earlier are things that are causing this anger and I want to be able to move on.

Shri Mataji: No, no, no need. Sit down. You see, anger comes from our liver. See, our liver is heated up, then we get very angry. Also, with your husband also; he must be an angry person also. But, you see with this, what happens your liver gets cured. You cool down, you become a peaceful personality, your husband becomes a peaceful personality. Now, every year we have at least about say 90 marriages, minimum of 90 marriages, international, and out of that 1 percent also will say, fail, sometimes, and they have such beautiful children. So, it’s something wrong with us, that’s why we get angry, and once this works out, you’re so peaceful, that you really start enjoying each other.

Now, your wife and your husband, they are here for enjoying each other isn’t it? Not for fighting, quarrelling, or anything; they are here just to enjoy. After Sahaja Yoga I’ve seen, I’ve really seen Sahaja Yogis how gentle they are with each other, how kind, how concerned, how sweet. It’s really, the real romance you see after; you see them in Sahaja Yoga. So for all of you I would say, it’s a very beautiful family life you can lead, but one has to understand that there’s something wrong with us also and we need a transformation.

[Audience]: Question unclear. Moderator confirms: He wants to know how spirituality and reality go together, because he has to make money, has to pay his bills, etc.

Shri Mataji: Of course, you will pay your money better. Yes, you see, because, your attention becomes very penetrating. Your intelligence sharpens, your creativity increases, you are so relaxed. I mean from every side you become a very, very superior person. I’ve seen now, in London see there are so many people who are going out of jobs but not a single Sahaja Yogi is out of job. Suddenly, and also, if you may understand, blessings of God; it’s so blissful. Things work out so fast that you are amazed how it works out.

Only the other day we had a problem with our old leader who was getting old and I had to appoint somebody else as the leader in Los Angeles. And he said, “Mother, I’m in Hawaii how will I manage?” “It’s all right.” Next day he got a very big call from a very big company to join them in LA, now it’s miracle. There are many miracles, so many miracles have happened that they write to Me, and I told somebody that, “You’d better compile them, it’s too many.” So they started compiling, after a month he telephoned that, “They all have reached above my head, on both the sides, now tell me, what should I do?” I said, “Now, cancel it. Let it be.” What to do?

So you don’t know how miraculous it is, to be in the Kingdom of God. It is such a blessing, from every angle.

Shri Mataji: Please get up and say I can’t hear.

Moderator: Explains question to Shri Mataji

Shri Mataji: I said which scripture has written that? Which one have you read?

Moderator: Which scripture?

Shri Mataji: It’s not true. It’s not so. No none of them; none of them; they cannot write such absurd things. I’ll you what, in our country we had a system of giving Realization, since long, from ancient times, and Sahaja Yoga, I would say if I’ve done anything, is that it’s an en masse Realization system I have found out. But there were natha panthis who used to do this job all over of the world. For example, Raja Janaka had a guru called Ashtvhakra and if you read his Gita, you’ll find how clearly he’s describe about Sahaja Yoga. But that time it was only one disciple and one guru, that was the parampara or that was the tradition.

But in the 12th century Ganeswara asked his guru who was his brother, [unclear: Avrutinath.] He asked him that you just allow me to write about this Kundalini.” Because he wrote Ganeshwari and in Ganeshwari he wanted to write about this Kundalini, just to little talk about this secret power within us. His guru allowed him and then he wrote it. But in the 16th century, 16th century, we got lots of gurus; we can say poets they were, who have been doing this kind of work. The guru of Shivaji was Ramadasa. They asked Ramadasa how much time it will take for the Kundalini to rise. So he said, “Tat kshana”, that moment. But the person who has to have it has to have that earnest desire and the one who has to do it has to have the authority.” Now, this person, I mean if you want to have a guru, you can call Me “Guru”, because Mother is the greatest guru, isn’t it? But Mother is a very soft Guru also, that’s the trouble, that’s why people don’t accept Mother as the Guru, but if you know your first guru is your Mother.

[Audience]: Question unclear. (About homosexuality and morality)

Shri Mataji: I mean this question I’m not going to touch. You see, because they are very sensitive on this point. It’s a fact. I had warned them. You see sometimes it shocks people if I talk about morality, they don’t like it, so best is you have your light, and you will know what is morality, what is immorality. Better is that you have your light and your enlightenment. That’s the main point is, “If you have your enlightenment then you yourself will know what is good and what is bad.” Moreover I would say whatever has happened, has happened. Forget it. Whatever you have done, just forget it. Even if you have been to false gurus or anything, just forget it. Yes?

[Audience]: Question unclear.

Shri Mataji: It’s good. I’m very happy you don’t know. You see, see this gentleman, you know if you know, Adishankaracharya has called it Shabta jalam means these are webs of words and they just get lost. You see some escape they find, if you have a book then you find an escape, I’m here to give you Self Realization, better take it. So it’s good you don’t know, I’m very happy, the less you know the better.

[Audience]: Question unclear.

Shri Mataji: It’s true; you see that is the trouble. This is the main trouble. You know, every year I’ve been coming to New York. We never had more than 200 people, no. I don’t know, there are so many people on the street, you can’t even walk. But they won’t come. You see, it is a judgment of yourself. You judge yourself, if you want to come, and enter into the Kingdom of God, that is open for you, but if you don’t want to come, nobody is going to force you, your freedom is respected; … so many hands.

[Audience]: [moderator confirms] She’s been enlightened, she’d like to make a transformation, how do we do it?

Shri Mataji: That’s very good question. Very good, I’m very happy to see that you are wanting it, May God bless you. We’ll do that. Sit down. Now…

[audience interaction]

Shri Mataji: Is correct: the question you are asking is correct, by God’s grace I come from a rich family; Myself, all right, My husband is extremely generous, in the beginning I use to spend all My money coming here, reserving all, and all that, but now, we have so many Sahaja Yogis and they feel ashamed that I should pay for this hall and everything so they pay for it. But only we take money from Sahaja Yogis who have been in Sahaja Yoga for four years. They collect, I don’t know, I never touch money, they collect and do it, because they think that America must be saved. They work it out. It’s not too much money; you see. Actually, I come once in a year, now this hall doesn’t cost so much, and some of them have given us free halls; luckily they think that we are making no profit so they give us free halls also. [consider not including the colored statement]

[Audience]: Moderator confirmed in Hindi.

Shri Mataji. I know, that question is there. You are a seeker, I must say, but I will tell you, that even in New York or any city, once you get your Realization, you can settle down. Nothing matters, it’s all right. I am practically traveling every day, last night I was in Philadelphia, before that I was in Washington, I travelled in the night, came here, that also I did, but I don’t travel, I’m just there.

[Audience]: Moderator confirms: the people in this hall are real seekers, when they leave they will be enlightened.

Shri Mataji: Of course, of course, I’ll tell you, “Sahaj”, “Saha” means with “ja” is born, is the right to have this union. It’s your right, everybody has this right, but how many are going to exercise, that I can’t say. Now, let us see this lady.

[Moderator]: I think we’ll us make it the last question, a lot of people want to have [unclear].

[Audience]: Moderator confirms question to Shri Mataji

Shri Mataji: Aw, you must have heard that radio program. That gentleman seems to be a fundamentalist to Me. He didn’t want to listen to anything. You see, what they were telling, that once you are in Sahaja Yoga, you realize that all the essences of all the religions are the same, right?, and that all these prophets and all these incarnations are real, and that in Sahaja Yoga we worship all of them. We are not tolerant, we have to get rid of fundamentalism, we have to get rid of racialism, so you transcend all these nonsensical ideas.

He is, I don’t know, he started giving a big lecture, I can’t understand him, because there was no need to give such a big lecture as if he was trying to save some people, so the affirmation are so many, just now you’ll have one, right? You see, the actualization is the working of it, first time you’ll feel this All Pervading Power. But he did not even talk to Me. I think he got nervous, first question he asks Me, “What is My background?” Why a background, I am sitting before you?, and I said also that the people who are spiritual they have no backgrounds, they are that. What was the background of Christ, what was the background of Mohammed Sahib? He didn’t even know how to read and write, Christ never went into any university, though I did, but I mean that’s no background for spirituality; it’s very different.

[Audience]: question unclear. Moderator confirms: She is very happy that You came here today for program; she said she heard You say that You have been working for 24 years, and she can see from Your face that You don’t have any stress or any problems; she wants to know if You have any disappointments in life?

Shri Mataji: I’ll answer her. She wants to know if I’ve had any disappointments. I mean, I have no appointments and disappointments. You take everything in a stride. Everything in a stride. Now if there are four people, all right, work on four people. See, you just take it in a stride, you don’t start judging or you don’t start because, when you fix your attention to something, it should be like this, then you are disappointed; all right?

Moderator: I think we should have a Realization; a lot of people are impatient.

Shri Mataji: Now, you see those who have asked questions should not ask again, because they are all anxious to have their Realization. All right, one more question, now, lady here, come along.

[Audience]: Who is Babaji?

Shri Mataji: You see, now, don’t bring their names, it’s controversial. What has he done for you? First, finished. What has he done for you? What have you got? A somebody was saying that you can move a pendulum, but paid 445 pounds for that, imagine, now are we here to move pendulums or to fly about 3 feet height, see already there’s jam on the roads, see all such stupid things and silly things, they sell mantras for 300 pounds, an ina, pinga, tingas sort of mantras they give you, they have taken such advantage of your ignorance, all these big, big names means nothing. What have they achieved? What powers you’ve got? That’s what I’ve said, when you talk of any guru you should go and find out what powers he has given you, anyone, or just making money. You have to become your own guru, that’s what I’m saying.

What does a mother want, that her children should have all her powers, everything, that’s her greatest achievement, isn’t it?

So now again, I have to again tell you, that if you want to go out, please go, but when we are going to meditate, you should not disturb.

Secondly, as I told you, I cannot force Sahaja Yoga on you, I cannot. I cannot put enlightenment on you. No, mostly the Indians will go away, that’s one thing, let them go away; the reason is [Shri Mataji speaks in Hindi].

I think you can all sit now, they’ve all gone away. Actually Hindustani [foreign language statement Hindi] not disappointed, no, no, I was just telling them, this is your heritage, you see that’s what is what I was trying to explain to them, this is your heritage, take to it, I’m telling Indians here because they have come here and also lost little bit, so I’m just telling them, this is your heritage, this is the greatest thing you have got to give to others, that’s what I was explaining to them. I didn’t want them to feel embarrassed, that is why I spoke in Hindi language. It’s all right.

You see in India, Sahaja Yoga is growing very fast, very fast. Of course, I am not surprised, because they know all about it. But in Russia, in Russia we have to always book a stadium and never less than 16,000 people and so many waiting outside. Here also some of them I’ve met Russians, they’re very different people and I am surprised because I am not the One who made any big advertisement there, or anything, and thousands came. Just seeing My photograph, such sensitivity to spirituality, such sensitivity to spirituality. And all other these gurus they’ve thrown away even [such unclear] people have been thrown away from them. This time I didn’t see even one. They are very discreet; very discreet. But it’s all just a little film of ignorance, and it works.

I would say when Americans get their Realization, they are tremendous, very tremendous people, no doubt; but they should get and they should ask for it, this is the difference, all right.

So the first request is to please take out your shoes if possible; that helps a lot. I think if you sit on these benches would be better, or whenever, you have to sit down, you shouldn’t stand, somehow you should all get seated, you have to be comfortable, you don’t have to go to Himalayas and stand on your head. Just you’ll get it here. I just say I’ve done the cooking and if you are hungry, you’ll eat the food, that’s all.

There are three conditions, which are very simple.

The first one is that you all have to be very confident that you’ll get your Realization; all of you. Absolutely be confident, don’t have any doubts about it. You all are going to get your Realization. The second condition follows from the first: that you should not feel at this moment you are guilty for anything. You are human beings and it’s only human beings who commit mistakes; to err is human. Even when you’ve committed mistakes, you should have just faced them that time. But people go on carrying those mistakes all their lives as guilt and that is placed here. It’s a fashion also, to feel guilty, I think, must be a fashion, because for small, small things they’ll feel guilty. If they put spoon this way or that way also they feel guilty. Let the Kundalini judge you; you don’t judge yourself at all.

As a result, when you put this guilt it goes into this center on the left hand side. We call it left Vishuddhi and you can get say spondylitis, could be angina, which is a heart trouble, or cervical cancer or also lethargic organs; so it’s a very important thing at this moment; please don’t feel guilty, whatever has happened has happened. Forget the past; just don’t feel guilty at all. Those people who tell you, “You are sinners,” forget them, something wrong with them that they feel that way. In short, you have to be pleasantly placed towards yourself; don’t condemn yourself, don’t just now start counting your mistakes or anything.

Because this All Pervading Power is the ocean of forgiveness, and whatever mistakes you might have committed, this ocean of forgiveness can dissolve everything. So, please do not feel guilty, is very important, also if this chakra is constricted, Kundalini won’t pass through. So you’ll miss the chance of your Self Realization. Now, the third condition is even simpler, that you have to forgive everyone even without thinking about them, in general.

How many would say that’s very difficult. Now, logically, whether you forgive or you don’t forgive, you don’t do anything, you don’t do anything. But you live with that myth, and when you don’t forgive you play into wrong hands. Those who have troubled you or hurt you are happy people, definitely, while you are torturing yourself, but at this moment specially. This center, here, on the optic chasma is like this; absolutely constricted if you don’t forgive, it won’t open and the Kundalini won’t pass, it’s very important for you now to forgive everyone, also don’t think about them because it’s a headache. Just say in general, “I forgive everyone.” You’ll feel lighter, half of the stress will go away if you say, “I forgive everyone.”

Now, you have been told that there’s a left and right, two sides. The left side is for our desire and the right side is for our action. So please put your both the feet apart from each other, here, comfortably. Now, you have to put the left hand on your left lap, like this. This is suggesting that you want to have, you desire to have, your Self Realization.

With the right hand we nourish our centers, on the left hand side, but this has to be done only tonight, this is not repeated again so you don’t try to remember it or write it down, please pay more attention to this happening.

Everybody should be seated, will be better. Everyone should be seated. First we’ll show you how you are going to nourish your own centers. Please put your right hand on your heart. This is the center where resides the Spirit, I’ve told you that if you become the Spirit; you become your own master, your own guide, your own master. So now take your right hand in the upper portion of your abdomen on the left hand side and press it hard, this is the center of your mastery, created by all the prophets and all the saints.

Please keep your eyes open and see what he’s showing you how to do it. Now, please put your right hand in the lower portion of your abdomen on the left hand side; those who are sitting on the ground need not worry about their legs; just sit on the ground is the best, all right.

Now, this is the center is for Pure Divine Knowledge. Now raise your right hand in the upper portion of your abdomen, on the left hand side. Now on your heart, and now in the corner of your neck and shoulder, and turn your head to your right.

I’ve already told you about this center what happens when you feel guilty. Now raise your right hand on top your forehead across and please put down your head as far as possible. This is the center where you will have to forgive everyone in general.

Now please take your right hand on the backside of your head, and push back your head. Here without feeling guilty, without counting your mistakes, just for your satisfaction, you have to ask forgiveness from the All Pervading Divine Power.

Now, the last center is very important, stretch your palm, right hand palm, you stretch it fully. Put the center of your palm on top of the fontanelle bone area, which was the soft bone in your childhood, called as talavir. Now push back your fingers as far as possible, push back your fingers, now please put down your head, please put down, push back your fingers, because it will have a good pressure on your scalp.

Now move your scalp slowly, seven times clockwise. Push back the fingers, like that, backwards. Now put it on the soft bone here. Now, put down your head, and move it seven times. Please put down your heads, yes, and now, move it. Push back your fingers, important is to push back your fingers, so there is a good pressure, now move it, seven times, clockwise. Now, everyone has to do it. Please, everyone do it.

Now, we’ll have to close your eyes when I tell you, before that please see that your feet are apart from each other and that your left hand is on your lap. You can take out your glasses; it also helps your eyesight, sometimes.

Now, please put your right hand on your heart, please close your eyes and don’t open them till I tell you. Here you have to ask a very fundamental question about yourself, to Me, you can call Me “Mother” or you can call Me “Shri Mataji,” please ask three times, in your heart, not loudly, “Mother, am I the Spirit?” Ask this question, “Mother, am I the Spirit?”

I’ve told you that if you become the Spirit, in the light of the Spirit, you become a master; of yourself.

So now, please take your right hand in the upper portion of your abdomen on the left hand side, and press it. Here you ask another fundamental question to Me, about yourself, please ask three times, “Mother, am I my own Master?” Ask Me a question. Now take your hand, right hand, on the lower portion of your abdomen on the left hand side, and press it hard. This center has got six petals, so you have to ask six times. I am sorry I cannot force Pure Divine Knowledge on you, you have to ask for it, it manifest on your central nervous system. So please ask six times, “Mother, please give me Pure Divine Knowledge,” in a humble way, you have to ask, “Mother, please give me Pure Divine Knowledge.” Six times. As soon as you ask for Pure Divine Knowledge, the Kundalini starts moving upward, so we have to nourish our higher centers with our full self confidence.

So please raise your right hand in the upper portion of your abdomen on the left hand side. Here you have to say ten times, with full confidence, “Mother, I am my own master,” please say that, ten times. I’ve already told you that you are not this mind, this body, this ego, this conditionings, this feelings, but you are the pure Spirit. So now, raise your right hand on your heart, and please say with full confidence, “Mother, I am the pure Spirit,” twelve times, “Mother, I am the pure Spirit” say it twelve times.

This All Pervading Power is the ocean of compassion, is the ocean of knowledge, is the ocean of bliss and joy, but above all, it is the ocean of forgiveness, and whatever mistakes you have committed, can be easily dissolved by the power of this ocean of forgiveness, so please forgive yourself, and raise your hand in the corner of your neck and your shoulder, and turn your head to your right This is the worst center here tonight, I find people really are unnecessarily feeling guilty. Please say now, sixteen times with full confidence from your heart, sixteen times, please say, “Mother, I am not guilty at all.”

I have already explained to you logically, whether you forgive or you don’t forgive you don’t do anything whatsoever, actually when you don’t forgive, then you suffer and torture yourself, play into wrong hands. At this moment it is very important that you should forgive, because this center of Agnya is extremely constricted, and unless and until you forgive you cannot allow the Kundalini to pass, because this will not open.

So please try to forgive everyone, don’t think about them, but just forgive everybody in general. So now, raise your right hand, on your forehead across, please put down your head, here say from your heart, not how many times, but your from heart, “Mother, I forgive everyone in general.” Don’t think about them.

Now, please take your right hand on the backside of your head. Push back your head. Here, without feeling guilty, without counting your mistakes, just for your satisfaction, you have to say, “Oh Divine Power, if I have done anything wrong, knowingly or unknowingly, please forgive me.”

Now, the last center, please stretch your palms, and put the center of your palm on top of the fontanelle bone area, which was a soft bone in your childhood. Now stretch back your fingers, that’s important and put down your head. Here again, I cannot force Self Realization on you because I respect your freedom, so move your scalp seven times, clockwise, saying seven times, “Mother, please give me my Self Realization.”


Now, take down your hand, open your eyes, you can wear your glasses. Now please put both your hands towards Me like this.