Public Program

Auckland Town Hall, Auckland (New Zealand)



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Public Program. Auckland Town Hall (New Zealand). 11 April 1994.

I bow to all the seekers of truth.
At the very outset, I have to tell you that truth is what it is. You cannot describe it, you cannot conceptualise it, you cannot purchase it. It has been, it is and it will be. Now whatever I am going to tell you today please do not believe me blindfolded. We have had lots of problems with blind faith. But accept it as scientists with an open mind and heart like a hypothesis and if it is proved then you must accept if you are honest because it is for the benevolence of your being, for the benevolence of your society, of your cities, of your countries and of the whole world.

So the truth is that you are not this body, this mind, these conditionings, these egos but you are the pure spirit. Another truth is that there is a subtle, very powerful, very dynamic all-pervading power of divine love that does all the living work. Your country is full of beautiful flowers. We see them but we take them for granted. They are definitely a miracle. How does it work? We never even think. Who runs our heart? We don’t even ask the question, we are not bothered about anything that is [a] living process. If you ask the doctors [they say] it is the autonomous nervous system. But who is this “auto”? We never question why are we on this Earth. This question cannot be answered by science, it has its own limitations. So we are here to find out the answer to these questions tonight.

As it is you have been told about the subtle system that is within us. That also please don’t take it for granted. You have to see for yourself, find out for yourself, and then only accept it, because the time has come to prove all the eternal truths. This is a special time, I call it ‘the blossom time’ but in the scriptures it is described as the last judgement, in Quran as Kiama, in Sanscrit [it] is described as the evolutionary… as they call it the evolutionary end or epitomy, ending into evolutionary process that you become a spirit. In Sanscrit, they call it nirvana. That’s what it is. What has to become of you now is that you have to become the spirit. Every scripture has described it, but we don’t see that we do not follow the scriptures. We brand ourselves as something like Hundu, Christians, Muslim, this, that… It’s just branding. This religion is not within, is not innately. Anybody who may belong to any religion can commit any sin, can be violent, can be extremely unreasonable and could be absolutely anti-religion. So we see a paradox in our life, the whole culture seems to be paradoxical. And it is really shocking that we don’t see what is happening around us. Terrible things are happening, the human being is becoming worse than an animal. What is happening to him we don’t understand but there is an attack of the negative forces on the human mind. And the way they behave nowadays if you read a newspaper you can’t sleep for the whole night because you can’t understand these human beings, how they are behaving towards each other, towards their own children, towards their wives, husbands, even? Very – very close relationships. What’s the problem with them, why don’t they feel the love? Why don’t they have that capacity to feel another person within themselves? All this was supposed to happen perhaps so that people start seeking the truth beyond the mundane things, to seek the reality, what is the reality. But when we try other things and we fail, we try to come to a religion and sometimes we go to false gurus also. Now, the religions, instead of becoming spirit-oriented, they have become power-oriented or money-oriented. God doesn’t understand money, how can He understand money – it is your headache, he doesn’t understand money, he doesn’t understand banks, he doesn’t understand anything. So how can you pay for anything that is divine love? But people think that by paying you can even purchase God. And that’s how people have been misled by many organisations, they call themselves in charge of religion or some guru [….] or something.

This power which is in the triangular bone is within you and the Greeks called this bone as the sacrum. Sacrum in their language means sacred. So they knew about it that this bone is sacred and there is something sacred about this bone that works out something sacred. Of course, this knowledge was known to India, Indian people long time back. But it was kept a secret for so many days and one master used to give realisation [to] only one person.At the time of Shri Rama, his father-in-law was a well-known person for giving realisation but he gave realisation so far known to one person […….]. It was kept a secret and that’s how this tradition went on from one to another in different different places. In the twelfth century only a great poet called Ganeshwara, he asked his teacher that he should be allowed in his book Ganeshwari mention of Kundalini and description about her. He did it in the sixth century, twelfth century these things, but in the sixth century also we had people who had described about it in Sanscrit language. He wanted to do it in Marathi language, this is a local language and he did it. But the people who were in charge of religion said this is a wrong thing, you should not read, it is not good, all kinds of things, so they just banned that knowledge. This was the sacred knowledge, most precious knowledge which was banned to people. But in the twelfth century, this happened and it had a very good effect because sixteenth century in India we had lots of poets, great prophets like Guru Nanaka and all that, they talked about it, they said there is this Kundalini which has to rise. But they wrote it in books which were poetry. In the poetic language, people just look all we can say not the correct meaning of it and they interpreted it according to their own understanding. Moreover, they just started reading the book. By reading the book you cannot go anywhere. All the books, even scriptures in English or in Indian languages or in any language are just like prescriptions, prescriptions to what to get. If there is a prescription that you take such a medicine, you go and read “take such a medicine, take such a medicine” your headache will not be cured. For that, you have to take the medicine. In the same way, it happened everywhere, people started reading books, books and this bookish knowledge left them nowhere because they got lost in the web of words. And that’s how all the problems started. Now if you ask a Muslim gentleman, he will tell you one story, if you ask a Christian, he will tell you another story, if you ask the Jews they will tell you another story, they all think they are the chosen ones. But are they? They have to ask themselves. So we should not blame the religions for that, but we lost the essence of the religion and the essence of every religion is surprisingly is the same – that you are to be born again. Now, somebody can call them born-again. By calling yourselves “born-again” you cannot. The other day in Sydney there were some people standing shouting screaming like see hawkes. They said: “We are born-again, born-again”. I said:”You are not, I am sorry. See your faces, you look so haggard and so violent. How can you born again talking of Christ, talking of Christ. Is this the way? You can see you have no connection with Christ, you can see clearly. At least don’t (maline?) his name. By your faces, you can see how horrible you look”. So they started thinking. I said:”Go and see the mirror”. You’ll be amazed they had so many wrinkles here and wrinkles here and wrinkles here. I said:” I am a 71year old woman while you are at least like my grandchildren and the way you look – I can’t believe it you have anything to do with Christ. Why do you want to (maline?) His name? How do you think God is with you because you’ve branded yourselves as born again?” There are many like that, there is no end to it. But they don’t want to understand that just by prophesying something or claiming something you don’t become, you have to be. Suppose I say: “I am the governor of this place”. Do I become? I don’t. I have to be. So that is what we have to understand we have to be born again means a self-realised personality. We don’t know anything I tell you the deeper sense of what is written in those scriptures, we don’t know that in every line there is another meaning which is very deep because it is poetry. So the essence of every religion is that you have to be self-realised, means you have to have self-knowledge and you have to be the spirit. It is written clearly. It is written clearly everywhere. It’s not that I am telling you this. You read Quran, it is written like that, you read Jews’ books, Old Testament-it’s there, Bible, Gita, Ramayana – everything that you want to read in the essence comes to one point. But this is the trouble is. We think that by reading these books we’ll achieve something. Nothing. You will just achieve an ego like you know everything, you’ll start telling big big stories, giving big sermons, but in the character, if you see, in your own being you will find there’s no divinity. Divinity should show in your face, in your body in your behaviour, in everything because it’s a power. Divinity is a power. It is not claiming something: “I am this and that” but it’s a power. And that power is within you. This is your own power which has to manifest. It is within you in every way whether you are Chinese, Japanese, Indian or New Zealander, anybody, it is power is within you as shown there. And if this power could be awakened, if it passes through these six centres and you become one with this all-pervading power, then only you can understand that your spirit now has been enlightened and it is acting in your attention. So far our attention is divided. Firstly, we don’t know the absolute truth. Somebody says: “This is good”, somebody says: “That is good”,
somebody says: “That is good”, they are fighting all the time. Fighting for what? Fighting for falsehood. And where do they end up? I mean also I must say that books might have been corrupted by some people. People don’t like to say that but I think so, like Mr Paul who is in the Bible. I was surprised, I asked my father: “Who is this Mr Paul?”. So he told me he is a squatter. And I could see clearly, he is a bureaucrat who wanted to have the platform, nicely came up giving big ideas, “I met Christ, and this happened and that happened” and whatever he writes is nonsense. Khalil Gibran has written a big chapter on him that this man how is he in Bible. And in that, you see this gentleman has spoilt the whole faith of Christianity who otherwise would have been somewhere, something much better. Firstly, he hated women, so he never wanted to talk about the Primordial Mother, never. There is a father, there’s a son and a holy ghost, finished. He hated women and he created such a problem for the whole Christian nations. Now, what I find that it’s impossible to make men and women join together really in love, just certain romantic ideas that work up and then finished. Not only that. He has harmed in a much worse way. For example, he said that if you are buried in the ground, then at the time of Resurrection your body will come out and it will get a resurrection. Now tell me how absurd is this thing? How can you accept such an absurd thing? Christ never said so. There are so many things that we have taken to the other end of stupidity because we also want to use it for our own purpose. But Christ could never have said such a nonsensical thing that your body can be brought out from your graves and will be given the resurrection. On the contrary, in Indian scriptures, there is a sensible thing written that your souls will take birth at this time, your souls. And there will be population growth. For this Judgement, your souls will be brought out. So today you are here because your souls have taken birth for the Last Judgement which sounds much more logical, sensible and has worked. And it is so much carried so far that I met one Muslin from Bosnia who came in a very bad shape. I asked him:”Why are you fighting for this land? See, you should fight for your spiritual ascent instead of this nonsensical land that you are fighting, killing each other?” The answer came that “No, in Quran it is written.” I don’t think, I have read the Quran I have not seen it, but maybe, I don’t know, I must have missed the point. Because again it is the poetry. That when you die your body will come out of graves and at the time of Resurrection you will get your realisation or Kiama they call it, the Resurrection. Then you will die, then you should put your body in the graves, so it is intact. Is it intact? If you die in the name of God. That’s why we are dying in the name of God and we’ll get resurrection”. I said:”Very nice. Use your brains. Those people who are dying there are eaten by their friends. Their friends are cooking them and eating them. How are they going to get their resurrection? I mean it cannot be so illogical. So this kind of idea is working in many things and we blame the (unclear). The Christians will say that Muslims are bad, Muslims will say that Hindus are bad and Hindus will say that Jews are bad, everybody’s bad. But if we introspect, we should know what did we get. Did we get our self-realisation? Did we get our second birth by going to these places, reading these books? Nothing. It was just an indication of how you should behave till you get your resurrection. Now, resurrection is not something that is coming from the outside but within you it is there, your right to get it. Sahaj, “saha” means “with”, “ja” means born. With you is born the right or the birthright to get this union, the yoga with this divine power. Now, with the word “yoga” also people get frightened because it is coming from India. Why should you be frightened? After all, from where did Christ come? Did He come from New Zealand? One lady was talking about Christ as if He were a New Zealander. I said, “He was not, He was a Jew”.So, from wherever knowledge comes, we should accept. From wherever our help comes we should accept. We should not condemn somebody because we have some ideas about them. For example, science is coming from say America, or you people, from anywhere. One has to accept. If this is for your good why not accept it and see for yourself if it works out if it helps you.
I don’t know how far ……. told you about this, but when the Kundalini rises, She enlightens these centres, these energy centres and pierces through your fontanel bone area and then ultimately you feel the cool breeze of the holy ghost on your hands, the all-pervading power on your fingertips. It is described in the Quran clearly that your hands will feel the cool breeze and that your hands, your fingers will give witness against you, clearly. I must say that Momatsa has done a great job.I mean whatever he has done, was undone by his followers. In every religion, I would not say only him but thanks to the ignorance of people that such a great thing and he has written one big chapter on the Resurrection. Despite all this, despite all these indications we still adhere to something because we were born into this, we were given this from childhood, conditioning in our heads. What we have to say are there saints nowadays in India, are there saints in other places, you find anybody saintly, really, in this real sense of the word. We don’t. And if the time has come for you to get your resurrection, to get your realisation, why not take it? Because by that, you’ll be surprised, these centres, which are your energy centres, which are responsible for your physical, mental, emotional being within yourself, which are responsible for all kinds of collective activities like political, economic, everything. Because most of the problems come from human beings. And these problems which come from human being come from your centres when they are in jeopardy. So these centres have to be corrected. And if they could be corrected, if you could understand what’s wrong with your centres and if you know how to correct it you become your own master. Not only that you become your own master but also you become so knowledgeable that you can help others. As a result of that, what happens that you start feeling the centres. These are all sympathetic centres, thank’s God, Medical science has reached that point. All these centres you start feeling and these centres when you start feeling you know what is wrong with your centres on your fingertips. You know what is wrong with others because first, you get self-knowledge and then you become collectively conscious. This is a new dimension into which you are coming. But the great thing that happens to you, to begin with, is that your attention can stay in the present. For example, I say:” you pay attention in the present now”. You cannot, either you are thinking of the future or of the past, the mind is jumping on the cusp of either the future or the past.You are jumping on. Inbetween those thoughts there is a present. When the kundalini rises like that, when She passes through that, what happens is that these thoughts elongate and the space between them, the pause between them which is called as vilamba is established and you become thoughtlessly aware, you are thoughtless but aware. That is the present in which you really spiritually grow.You establish that new state which we call as nirvichar samadhi and you become absolutely silent, peaceful. That’s how peace within is established. Now with my husband, I met many people who have peace awards and peace organisations, but they are so hot-tempered! What a paradox! So, first of all, we must establish our peace within. When that happens then we start watching ourselves. As if you are standing in the water which is turbulent and you are frightened of getting drowned. But if somebody puts you in a boat you can watch. And then from the boat, if you know how to swim you can go down and save others also. It is just like that what happens to a person when he gets his self-realisation, first he starts watching all the problems. When he starts watching all the problems he knows how to solve them also because his attention is enlightened. Wherever he pays attention, the problem is solved. It is very miraculous for us, human beings. Absolutely, the divine power is so miraculously acting once you are connected with it, it is unbelievable how it acts. This all-pervading power is the ocean of knowledge, an ocean of knowledge.And the ocean of blessings. Blessings are so many that whenever this Sahaja Yogi meet some problems, they write to me: “Mother, how it was all solved in no time, how I met the right man, how it worked out, how my health improved”. You see, there was one girl who had they said meningitis. I said: “Just pray, she’ll be alright” and the next day the news came she is alright. It is working out I must say, it is working out.But these blessings come to you only if you are one with the divine power of God’s love, otherwise, it will not. Sometimes you feel that God is blissful, He gave me this, He gave me that. But these blessings come to you from something very unknown and you feel so amazed at how these things worked out. So it is an ocean of blessings, believe me, it is. Then the third thing is that it is the ocean of compassion. Such a person becomes extremely compassionate, extremely compassionate. And it is the ocean of dynamism. Such a person also becomes absolutely dynamic. I have known of so many artists who came to Sahaja Yoga, especially from India. Today they are world famous. All over the world, they are known to be great artists and they always say about me that it is Mataji’s blessings. I said: “Don’t say that.” This is your own power because if the power passes through these centres it gives you creativity because all your powers of creativity have been so little so far which are just enhanced to manifest. Not only that, so many other things happen, it is surprising. I have seen people who were supposed to be very dry, never knew a language very well, have suddenly become poets. But this is just I would say the temptation of the mother for you. The main thing that happens to you is much more. And the main thing that happens to you is just that apart from your health being cured, of course, that I should have mentioned because we have four doctors now in Delhi who have got their MD in Sahaja Yoga. They have cured asthma, epilepsy, don’t know, other things. But blood cancer has been cured, so many diseases have been cured with this happening without going to the doctor, without spending all the money for the hospital, nothing. Just your own power, I mean, it’s nothing to do with me, just within you, it all works out. Only thing is it’s like a seed being planted into Mother Earth and it sprouts by itself, spontaneously, sahaj. In the same way, it happens. You also get this power, your own power to rise and that makes you something special. It is all your own and you don’t have to pay for it. I mean how much do you pay to the Mother Earth or to the seed? Both of them don’t understand money, so what’s the use of paying them? Something like that. It is all your power, within yourself and you get it in no time. But somehow or other I think, maybe, I don’t know what to say … In the West, they are more impressed by people who are really false because so many gurus went around and minted money. They had thousands and thousands and thousands of disciples. I was amazed at how they take to falsehood so easily. Immediately… telling: “this man lynched us, we have no money, Mother, our house is sold, our children are..” But why did you do it? “Because he said, you see, that will happen, what will happen”. You should go and see the disciples how they are. Find out from them have they got something or not. I mean you should just go like a bulldozer going to your man and getting yourself killed, it is something stupid. But this stupidity has been done everywhere but more in America, Why Russians I must say are tremendous people, you’d be surprised. They have a very bad government, this, that, you can condemn it. But they are wonderful people, at least 70 per cent of them are really very introspective, very good people. Wherever I go I get at least sixteen thousand people, minimum sixteen thousand. And they have thrown away all the falsehood, nobody can stay there, even their government. And the recognition they have for… I was surprised how do they have recognition of something that it really the truth. We should not play about with falsehood, it’s stupidity, nonsense. And if you are have done that, not only have you given them money but also you spoilt your Kundalini. It’s very common. All kinds of people, even in the West now, so many gurus have come up, all money making propositions. First, they’ll have an introductory lecture and then nice you go there and then you better pay “(unclear, something like “out of “). If you have to pay for it know it is not so. Of course, people had to pay for the hall I must say, hall they have to pay, they must have got some money collected among themselves and they must have paid for the hall but for your self-realisation how can you pay? This is what is to be understood that you can’t pay for the truth. Once you understand this you will cancel out all nonsensical things that are going on. It is too precious, it is too precious you cannot pay for it. Now we come to the fact that all these centres are cures, integrated and nourished, enlightened, our attention becomes enlightened and wherever we pay attention, the attention acts. You know the absolute truth also on your fingertips. Now if somebody some cheat or somebody who is released from the jail, I tell you, all of them have a place in the Indian society. So they were these dresses and come down to New Zealand or to Australia or to America. Also to France. Especially in Germany.And now they are going to Japan. I mean they take a ticket to go there. Because they have no place in India, so they come here, sit on your crossroad and get all the money from you. So now one has to understand that with knowledge with this absolute, absoluteness, this absolute, paransatya they say, absolute, means everybody sees the same, there is no quarrel, argument, fighting, nothing, You just feel the same thing. If you all feel the same thing from one person, then you will know what is wrong with this person, you can make out what sort of person he is, what sort of problems he has, what he is doing. It’s very easy.Apart from this, you can make out what are his physical, mental, emotional problems. Because you become collectively conscious, this is the second dimension you develop – you become collectively conscious. Become, not somebody tell you, become. Even children can tell you on their fingertips. Such powers you have!

In the second stage, I mean most people reach the second stage very fast, but sometimes they don’t, that is what we call nirvikalpa samadhi where there is no doubt. You can do it. Like one enlightened light can enlighten another light. So once you start getting Sahaja Yoga as a complete modelling of your life, what happens – a beautiful society is created all over the world. Now Sahaja Yoga is working in 62 nations. Sixty-two nations. And these people come to India, live there, I’ve never seen them fighting, quarrelling, abusing, never, never, never. Now, this has been going on for the last 25 years. But such love, such tender feelings, such pure love that exists. We don’t have like somebody’s wife runs away with somebody’s husband, runs away, nothing of the kind. it’s very pure love. This is a paradoxical culture we have.This was not there about 50 years back. This is today’s culture is what? The children are killing today only I read in the paper that I Philadelphia or somewhere two children killed the father. Why? Because they were kind, they gave them presents so they went and killed them.the rate, the horrible child what do you call it, abuse… I really do not understand what they do. All these horrible things are happening in this culture, is this any culture? And this is what they call as freedom. This is nothing but licentiousness.This is no freedom, this is so destructive. We are having all kinds of diseases, troubles, this, that. So somebody has to stand back from this rat race and see for themselves where are we going? A big shock for us really if you see the future of these countries. I can’t understand what will happen. It is spreading everywhere, it is coming even to India, you will be surprised. This culture is coming to India also. All over the world. So one has to understand that it has to be stopped, we have gone too far with it. For that, we have to have a culture which is divine and divine culture is such when you do not do any such things, no question. For such a beautiful divine life one should really run, but this doesn’t happen. I don’t know what’s the matter with the people. In the West especially, here or on Australia, Australia is getting better now but still, I would say compared to Russia and other Eastern bloc countries, you are nowhere, really. It’s very surprising. You are nowhere compared to them. And they are of course maybe not so rich or (unclear) but what are these riches? What have they brought us? What is going to bring us the divine power, the divine laws, the divine wealth? All the Sahaja Yogis have become rich also, you’d be surprised. Everything in business and everywhere they’ve made no doubt because it helps agriculture, it helps your mind, everything it helps. People have, say in England, every person in Sahaja Yoga is employed, nobody is without a job. Even in Australia the same thing. And it happens to everyone because you have become a very normal, sensible, intelligent, dignified person and whose brain is enlightened. Naturally, you can do very well, better than others. You drop out of your habits, for after Realisation, overnight.drugs and all that. I have seen people giving up drugs overnight. How it happens is very simple. That supposing you have a snake in your hand and there is darkness, you can’t see anything. Then suddenly some light comes here. You tell this fellow before: “You stop, this is a snake”. He won’t, so adamant till it bites him. But as soon he sees some light he drops it. In the same way, you drop out all these destructive things. And you get such a power to do it, you see so many people decide to do it. The other day I read about this fellow, this Nirwana(?) fellow committed suicide. If he had taken to Sahaja Yoga, he would have been so much useful. But they don’t. Somehow or other it doesn’t go into their head we have to be very-very sensible and understand what will do us good instead of doing something that it absolutely destructive. And the best part of it is that you jump into the ocean of joy because this power is the ocean of joy. We think that there is joy in this, pleasure in this, pleasure… All these pleasures are very temporary. But joy is something which is not happiness or unhappiness. Joy is something which is singular. And you start enjoying that joy and this joy give you a kind of a personality which is always joyous, gives joy to others, doesn’t trouble anybody, doesn’t hate anybody, doesn’t ask or sees a thing with greed. There is no lust, there’s no greed and such a person becomes so pure, so beautiful. We have to have that kind of a society everywhere. I hope so that you people would like to have such a society even in New Zealand. You don’t have to give up any religion (?), you don’t have to give up your families, your children, go to the Himalayas, stand on your heads, nothing of the kind. Here, very comfortably you can get your self-realisation. But I have to tell you that this is a collective happening and you cannot just say: “I am alright, alright” but later on you will come and tell me:”Mother, something went wrong with me.” So you have to come to the collective. And in the collective, you have to learn each and everything free of cost. You become your masters. Once you are masters, no problem. And this then power can help you to go and help others. Everybody becomes enlightened and goes because he cannot keep the light within himself, he has to give it. Not in an aggressive way, not in a very way they go on preaching, nothing. You can just raise the Kundalini of the people and make them enlightened and change their lives. All the stress and strain and all these things just disappear. It is really wonderful to understand how much there is within us, how glorious we are and then we understand that we have an identity, that we are working for divine love, that we are using divine love and we are empowered with it. Then we understand what are we, that’s how we understand also that all religions are flowers on the same tree of spirituality. They have plucked it and they are fighting with the dead flowers. We see the integration of everything that is beautiful with nature and everything is so surprising that we have everything within us and we don’t know. And when we become aware, you are amazed. But amazingly, you don’t become ego, egotistical, no. You become extremely humble and beautiful. I hope it will work out in New Zealand also. I’ve come all the way not only from India but from Italy and all these places and I think it will work out for good for all of you and it will definitely happen to you. Now the only thing I have to tell you is that those who don’t want to have realisation, I cannot force on you because I respect your freedom. If you want, you will have, if you don’t want I cannot force it, I am sorry. This freedom is given to you by God Almighty which is to be respected. If you want your self-realisation, it takes hardly 10-15 minutes. But if you don’t want it you please leave the hall. That is the best to be fair to other people, those who do not want it. I’ll give about one minute for that. It is not meant for people who are extremely aggressive, critical type. Though if you just want it from the humble heart, you’ll get it. Because it is your right you see, you just have to be a humble person that you want to have it, that’s all. You don’t have to surrender anything, you don’t have to give anything, nothing of the kind. As you are, whatever your personality is you can get this realisation and you can feel it. So what happens first is that feel first, some people feel it on top of their head a cool breeze is coming out of their fontanelle bone area. Then they start wondering if there is airconditioning maybe, but that is air conditioning in your head. So some people feel it hot, some people feel it cool. Trust yourself, you must have faith in yourself, it’s very important. Then also they feel it on their fingertips, some feel it on their hands. How to use this power that you have to learn. But also you will feel extremely peaceful and you may achieve thoughtless awareness state tonight. So let us try it and if it works out it would be a great thing for you and for me also.

Also, I know that you have questions as usual, but you see for the last twenty-four years I’ve been facing all kinds of people and I know how to answer questions, I know, I am quite an expert. But it’s a mental acrobat, we have to go beyond the mind, so that’s the use of now discussing something. Still, if you have some questions you can send them over and we will try to answer them.