1994-04-27 Talk after program Bangkok
Shri Mataji: Come forward I think [Shri Mataji tells yogis to sit closer]. She did a good translation. After all, you know, last time it was much worse. Gradually she will get used to it now. She did well. I mean so many got realization is the point. So many, everybody raised their hands, practically [everyone]. I did not see anybody not raising [their hand]. Maybe one or two might not have. Did you see some people who did not get realization?
Yogi: No Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: No? It was… Hello [to a yogi] So, so many were there today. Great. Really. It’s very surprising how it has worked out. I never expected so many, really. But there must be at least seven [to] eight hundred people. Everywhere it is like this now. So next year there will be even double than that, isn’t it?
I didn’t know you [to a yogi] are here now. I thought you are in Switzerland.
I mean you know how to handle them. You know how to behave with the new ones who will be coming here. You have to be very careful, in no way to hurt them. Tell them in a way that they understand, you see. Because in the beginning if you just say something harsh, it may be too much, and they might think that you are trying to show off or something. So never call anybody a bhoot or anything like that. Gradually… It is working out well everywhere. I am sure it will work out well here also. Only thing, meditation they should do at home. It’s very important. Because that’s how they go deep. If they don’t meditate, just coming to the collective doesn’t work out. And also, the other way round. Even if you are just meditating at home and not coming to the collective, that also [doesn’t work out]. So, they have to be deeper people. Once they become deeper and deeper, things will work out better. I am sure that through your example they will work it out. Gradually when they seeing what happens to them and all that… And it’s such a powerful thing. I was amazed with some people – how they have achieved such faith and such depth. One of them was… His aunt came to see Me. She is not a Sahaja Yogi, and she didn’t say anything to Me. She just prayed and she said, “Mother please, my husband is sick so please if you can help him.” And I never knew that he was such a serious patient of cancer. So, she went home, and he was walking about. She was surprised. And he didn’t do Sahaja Yoga. Again, he got a very bad attack, and he was about to die. So, in India the custom is that before the person is dying, they put him on the ground. So, before that they called somebody, a Sahaja Yogi, and said, “Now pray to Mother that his soul will be relieved.” So, he just sat down, the Sahaja Yogi. And he said, “I don’t know why Mother I didn’t say that. I just prayed that ‘please save my uncle’.” And within three days he was absolutely normal and going about.
[to a Yogi] Did you take that… [in Hindi] That miracle photo of Mine, did you get it?
Yogi: No, I did not get it.
Shri Mataji: The one that you were showing to them? You got it?
Shri Mataji: We left it there? [in Hindi] I had given it for showing to them.
Yogi: [in Hindi] It was not returned to me.
Shri Mataji: [in Hindi] Didn’t return it?
Yogi: [in Hindi] No
Shri Mataji: [in Hindi] Ok.
Yogi: [in Hindi] I will telephone and ask them.
Shri Mataji: [in Hindi] Just see if it is in the purse.
So, this was such a miracle I mean. And that fellow is perfectly all right now. He is doing well. So, some people reach such a depth of their bhakti, such a knowledge, that even praying it works out. Of course, there is some maya sometimes it doesn’t work. But whenever I have seen, if people fail, if they ask for anything, it works out. So, it is for you to really develop that kind of a…
[After checking the purse] Not here. It’s been lost.
I gave it to them to see and I’ve left [it] there with them. [to yogi] Tell them to send another one.
With these Sardarjis [sikhs], they get their realization very fast, no problem. I told them today [that they] don’t have to do all this… Because somehow or the other they are very dharmic people, I think. [We] went down to Chandigarh for the first time and normally my husband wouldn’t allow Me to go there because it was in a chaos – Chandigarh. This is the first time he allowed Me and at least 60 % were Sardarjis and all of them got realization. Without doing anything, just putting hands like this [towards Shri Mataji]. They said we are already feeling it. Something about them… But some of the Indians are also stupid. There were some Indians who were getting up and walking out. [not clear, in Hindi] So we have extremes of everything in India, I think. So, they just walked out, some of the Indians. I was surprised that they had come to the program, sit for a while, and just walked out. Specially in England, they are the worst. There is no sense at all. They have all become, I think, sahibs.
This gentleman went away because… this one who was sitting in front. He is a monk or what?
Yogi: Yes, Shri Mataji. He is a monk.
Shri Mataji: When it comes to Vishuddhi, he started shaking like this. So [he] got a fright. That’s the trouble with all these monks and priests. You see, once they come to Me then they start shaking. We had one in Milan, also some priest. He came to Me and as soon as he came forward, the whole body started shaking like this. ‘Baap re,’ I said. Just like our candle shakes, you see. Whole body. Must be possessed people, I think. Must be possessed or something wrong with them. To Me a priest is a horrible thing, I think. They are doing unnatural things and living unnaturally. Such a… I mean, you don’t know what to do with them when they start shaking like this.
Yogi: Specially in Thailand the monks feel they are very high people.
Shri Mataji: They think?
Yogi: Yes. And actually, everybody bow down to them, even the king. They think we do like this and… They were just sitting in front [not clear].
Shri Mataji: Sonu, My granddaughter was a little girl of five years I think. They went to Ladakh. There was one lama fellow, was sitting on a [sounds like ‘mound’]. Everybody was bowing to him like this. So Sadhana and Rommel also went because they were in the crowd there too. She got so angry, she just went and stood before him [and said] “By wearing this kind of a dress, choga, do you think you are a very great man? Why are you making everybody bow to you? Useless fellow, you are not even a realized soul.” And these two got a fright.
And Aradhana too once, you see. We had a program. I had gone there for this Ramana Maharishi’s birthday. So, they invited Me as a chief guest, and I went there. There were others also. One of them was the… what you call was… One of them was from the Ramakrishna ashram. He was wearing a big, long thing and sitting there. So Aradhana was sitting in front, and she got upset. She said “Nani,” (to me, grandma,) “this man with the Maxi, throw him out. I am getting such heat from him, this man with the Maxi.”
Yogi: How old was she, Shri Mataji, when she said this?
Shri Mataji: Aradhana was about, I think, four years or so.
Yogi: So clever at that age.
Shri Mataji: A very strong…
So, any questions you have?
[in Hindi] Only bliss! Kabir says bliss has manifested.
Kabir says “Jab masth hue phir kya bolein?” When I have got intoxicated with my Spirit, what am I to talk? Just in joy all the time. Somebody told Me, “Mother, when you are there, we are so much in joy that our this thing [indicating the cheeks] starts paining…” [Yogis laugh.]
Yogi: Shri Mataji, tomorrow is the fourth day of the full moon, and all your children here would like with your permission to worship Your Lotus Feet…
Shri Mataji: Worship?
Yogi: Yes Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: A puja? No.no, no, no…
Yogi: With your permission only.
Shri Mataji: You know the… You can wash My feet and all that. But for puja we must have more people. You know these deities start pouring so much vibrations and then I just can’t get out of My bed. So best is tomorrow you can wash my feet, all right. But not any… But you can sing -it’s all right for the music. Here will they allow us?
Yogi: Yes Shri Mataji. And Shri Mataji, Mr. Ishwaran is here. He is the project manager of this hotel, and he has done so many things for us that we could have this…
Shri Mataji: For this hotel? Are you?
Yogi: Yes Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: Really good.
Yogi: He gave us such an incredible price for this hall and…
Shri Mataji: What is his name?
Yogi/Yogini: Mr. Ishwaran
Shri Mataji: Ishwaran? What a name! [Shri Mataji greets Mr. Ishwaran] All right. So it’s very nice.
Very nice hotel I must say. It was already built, or you people built it?
Ishwaran: I was the project manager.
Shri Mataji: You bought the whole thing?
Ishwaran: The owner is an Indian.
Shri Mataji: Built it? Whole designing and everything he did?
Ishwaran: Designing was a Hong Kong based person.
Shri Mataji: It’s beautiful. Very well done. Who was the architect?
Ishwaran: Architect was a local person. Interior designer was a Hong Kong based person.
Shri Mataji: He is from Hong Kong?
Yogi: And the architect was someone from Bangkok.
Shri Mataji: I must say [it’s] very creditable. Even the Bangkok hotel where I stayed… What was the name of the hotel?
Shri Mataji: First we stayed in?
Yogi: Yes Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: That one was also…
Yogi: Yes, it was great Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: Very well done.
Yogi: With all these things from the past of Thailand. They did very nicely the statues and so on.
Shri Mataji: It’s very good. That one also was very, very good.
It’s all coming up now. Lots of creativity you can see in so many things. Even in Hongkong… What is that hotel we stayed?
Shri Mataji: Peninsula! That’s an old one but very nice. It’s really a very nice hotel. But these modern ones are no good. They are horrible. Sheraton. Sheraton the room is like this [indicating the layout]. If one person is inside, he has to get out for another person. And you pay exorbitantly. Hyatt, Sheraton, what else is there?
[Shri Mataji nods agreement about its ‘modernity’]
Shri Mataji: Also, that Continental, horrible.
Yogi: New style.
Shri Mataji: Too modern. No sense of relaxation at all. Specially Sheraton is the worst, I think. The one in Hong Kong city, which is that hotel? Modern one, in the city, in the main part?
Shri Mataji: Shangrila is good. The one which is… On the other side, not in the…
Yogi: Is it the Grand Hyatt? Grand Hyatt Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: Hyatt? That I know but… Sheraton I know. One more where we stayed, horrible.
Yogi: The Regent Hotel Shri Mataji?
No, no. I mean not on the [sounds like ‘Point’] side. On the other side.
Shri Mataji: No, no. Something else. Horrible it was. Some friend was staying there, and we went to see him. He said, “I feel like jumping from there. Paying such a lot of money but, for nothing.” We were in Sheraton, another problem. But you see, for prestige or something they take these things. What is prestige? I mean you have to live there, isn’t it?
Yogi: Yes Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: They have built up through advertising and all that such an artificial image of the whole thing. That it is prestige. I mean, I just can’t understand. And this advertising has so much gone into the brains of the modern people that you can do whatever you like with the advertising, anything. Till they are found out. But this… We stayed in Peninsula last time and Harsh told Me, because he was with the tourism, that it got the first prize as the best hotel in the whole world – Peninsula. You know that [probably asking Mr. Ishwaran]? Harsh told Me this.
[Shri Mataji looks around the room] This one also is very good I must say. Very comfortable.
You see they always think that if you pay more money anywhere, then it is something good. Like, once My husband brought Me a scarf from Egypt worth about 20 Pounds [sterling] or something. I told him, “CP, this is made in India. You spent so much money.”
So, he said “How do you know?”
I said, “It’s written there. Just see.”
Then I said, “All right. Next time I will get it from India.” We got it for two Pounds [sterling], same thing. So, there was a concept that whatever is expensive is the best. And even in ‘guru shopping’ they had this concept. Whichever guru is the most expensive is the best, you see. They would discuss in parties, “Oh, did you go to this guru?”
I said, “No. I don’t go to gurus.”
They said, “No, no, this one is good. Now ‘for sale’. You know, you can get a bargain price.”
All sorts of artificial things even in the name of God. All kinds. And people take to it. Like this Gurumayi came to Australia and she brought some shawls, vibrated shawls. And she sold them at a very high price. And everybody’s Kundalini was ruined. [With] all those who went to her, we had to pay so much time, we had to work so hard to get them all right. This Gurumayi – now she is, I think, out of market. These gurus also come in the market, earn a lot, and get out of market. Finished with it. They have no responsibility. Here you were telling Me there is a guru [and] he has 100,000 people. What’s the name?
Yogi: It’s a Japanese lady. You know…
Shri Mataji: Lady!
[Yogis discussing is inaudible]
Yogi: It’s a man, Shri Mataji, from Japan. His name would be Yori.
Shri Mataji: She is yogi?
Yogi: Yori is the name.
Shri Mataji: Her name is?
Yogi: His name. Yori. Yori, Shri Mataji
Shri Mataji: Yogesh?
Yogi: Yori, Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: How do you spell?
Shri Mataji: Yori?
Yogi: Yes Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: A man or a woman?
Yogi: A man.
Shri Mataji: Yori. Now, what does he do? [Shri Mataji gives bandhan with the right hand on the left palm.]
Yogini: He use gold coin mantra and then they say they pass the energy from God to cure disease.
Yogi: They use gold, gold coins. And they pass energy through it and they cure people. I mean…
Shri Mataji: Conch?
Yogi: Coins, Shri Mataji.
Another Yogi: Like medals, isn’t it? Golden medals.
Yogi: And they say that the energy of God passes through these medals, that it can cure people.
Shri Mataji: My God!
Yogini: And they sell this to people, these golden coins. And they say after learning how to pass this energy, people can cure other people’s diseases.
Yogi: They sell it after Shri Mataji. They just teach how to cure with these things and then they sell these things.
Shri Mataji: What is written on that?
Yogi [asking yogini]: You know what is written on this thing?
Yogini: I’ve never had a chance to…
[yogis discussing – inaudible]
Another yogi: The people are not allowed to take it off Mother. And if they take it off, they are only allowed to put it on [sounds like ‘a certain spot’] overnight or so. You are not allowed to…
Shri Mataji: Give a bandhan.
Horrible. All left side catching. Horrible. So, you have to pay for that medal?
Yogi: You have to pay a lot, Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: That’s all?
Yogi: And you can cure with it, so called.
Shri Mataji: [Shri Mataji laughs while giving bandhan] I tell you… There’s no end to stupidity also. There are so many stupid people in this world, so they also need some stupid gurus.
Yogi: She just went to see the newspaper, Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: In the newspaper the name is there?
Yogi: Yes. There is an article Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: [After giving bandhan for some time] Better now. Catching Mooladhara?
Yogi: And back Agnya also Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: All. Mooladhara is very bad. Like the pope. Pope also catches on Mooladhara. His prostrate is wrong. I mean, can you imagine? More proof what do you need?
Yogi: He gets this disease like AIDS. He gets the disease… It was shown in the newspaper that he gets AIDS.
Shri Mataji: Really?
Yogi: Not exactly AIDS but they said the same diseases, but they don’t want to give the name. Same kind.
Shri Mataji: But you get from the same type.
Yogi: [offering the newspaper] If You want more information about this Yori, Shri Mataji, or…?
Shri Mataji: This man? Let Me see.
Yogi: She can translate [for] You little bit what is…
Shri Mataji: [after looking at the article] Horrible.
Yogi: It was just near, Shri Mataji, our Sahaja Yoga is there [in the newspaper] and this Yori is on the other page.
Shri Mataji: These are Sahaja Yogis?
Yogi: No, no. [Yogis laugh.] This article is Sahaja Yoga, and the other page is…
Shri Mataji: [Looking at the article on Yori] Horrible fellow. [Shri Mataji gives bandhan anticlockwise] Look at his face. As if somebody has slapped him 100 times. Look at his face. What is his age? Must be very old.
Yogi: He has another name Shri Mataji. Yori is the name the Thai give to this technique of curing.
Shri Mataji: He is not a realized soul. Horrible. You see… [indicating the photograph in the newspaper] Just see his eye. So small. All the bhoots are coming from here and acting on… If you are a right-sided person, then your right eye goes small. If you are a left-sided person, then your left… Right eye goes like that, you see. A real bhoot. [Shri Mataji gives away the newspaper and rubs and blows on Her hands] It’s just a curing with some sort of a ‘bhoot vidya’ [knowledge of misusing dead spirits]. Moreover, these people have the powers. They don’t give power to anyone. That’s it. Nobody knows anything what they are doing. Hold somebody’s hand, do something. It is such an uncertain quantity. No one knows what they are doing. See, one should know what it is, how you are curing, what are the centres catching. Nothing. Just you hold each other’s hand, one bhoot passes from one to another.
Yogi: They don’t want to say that Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: What?
Yogi: They are afraid to say how it works out.
Shri Mataji: Because they don’t know. They don’t know even… They don’t know this is bhoot. So how they will tell? Suddenly some bhoot comes into them and tells them, “All right. Try this trick. It works.” Rajneesh has described in his early days that he had an astral travel and he saw himself from a tree. So that means he was a bhoot. And the bhoot gives him all these ideas.
Best thing is to burn [it]. Don’t see – has very bad vibrations. Let it be. Better burn it off. Take out that page and burn it off. Horrible. Such an old man, he should think of God. And he should think of his future life. Where will he go? He will go to hell.
Yogi: Maybe he is coming from hell already Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: Might be coming out of hell. Wants to go back home again. [everyone laughs] But what hurts Me [is that] there are people, who are there, are so faithful you know. So simple, good people.
You have got some books translated in this language here?
Yogi: About Sahaja Yoga Shri Mataji?
Shri Mataji: Yes.
Yogini: Yes Shri Mataji. We have just the presentation we give for beginners.
Yogi: A little book called guide for beginners. That we had in Switzerland once.
Yogini: No, Australian one.
Shri Mataji: Then do on a computer as they have done it in… We saw three, four books translated like that in Taipei. And they said the publishing is very cheap there also in Taipei.
Yogi: Here also it is very cheap Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: Here also? So, somebody should do it.
Yogi: In Hong Kong Shri Mataji, Alex told me about this. He made little books like this. Very well done, very well done.
Shri Mataji: Very nice books they have in Hong Kong. That is in Chinese. But also, in Taipei they have done it.
Yogi: We’ll get [in] contact to make the same.
Shri Mataji: Yes, but that is in Chinese. So, I mean somebody who knows this language should translate. Slowly… Or Chinese, if they know this language, they can translate from Chinese. Could be done that way. There are Chinese here? Lots of Chinese?
Shri Mataji: She is Chinese? So how do you know their language?
Yogi: [not clear; sounds like ‘my mother is Chinese, but they only taught me Thai’]
Shri Mataji: So, someone like that, you see. Because it is already translated in Chinese. So, you can have a nice reference. Slowly if you can translate some books, it would be a good idea. Of course, we have done a lot in French. French, we have translated. Gregoire’s book is also translated.
Yogi: Yes Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: But it doesn’t sell in the public.
Yogi: Gregoire’s book?
Shri Mataji: Yes.
Yogi: Yes Shri Mataji. It sells…
Shri Mataji: It’s selling now?
Yogi: Yes, yes.
Shri Mataji: Really?
Yogi: You can find it in the public. No problem. Sahaja Yogis buy it…
Shri Mataji: I thought only Sahaja Yogis are buying it.
Yogi: No Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: That’s very good.
Yogi: Some people are coming out of this book.
Shri Mataji: Really?
Yogi: Yes, yes.
Shri Mataji: Michelle. Michelle worked on it. But this Djamel’s book they are not willing to publish just now?
Yogi: I think they found someone to publish, no?
Another Yogi: No, they don’t want to.
Yogi: Do you have to pay so much, or something?
Another yogi: Yeah, there is a problem for the publishing. But we would like to publish it. Yeah. It’s ready now.
Shri Mataji: I don’t know what is so objectionable in that book.
Yogi: Maybe it is speaking about Islam, and it is a very delicate point in France now because there was this [name of person not clear] who spoke about Islam by the way. And now they are very careful about publishing…
Shri Mataji: No, no. Islam you should not… You should speak against the way they are following Islam, in a wrong way. It was in French so I couldn’t do anything about it. But if she can come and see Me, Guillemette. I will have to talk to her about it. You see, nothing wrong with Islam. What’s wrong with is the people who follow.
Yogi: They ask a lot of money because they want to be sure that we’ll already pay so much to buy the books actually. They are ready to publish it but only if we ourselves agree to buy, I don’t know, something like 10,000 books. I mean quite a lot actually. This means a lot of money.
Another yogi: They don’t want to have risk. They don’t want to…
Shri Mataji: If it was in English, we could have done it in India. They should do it in English language first. Then in India it is not difficult to publish it. And also, you see, we will correct certain things because I couldn’t read French. If it could be translated in English, then I can correct it also. So many stupid things there are. I don’t think there is in the Koran anywhere written that you must bury your body and that Christians also believe in. Because this one fellow – Bosnia Muslim – came to see Me. He somehow or the other managed to escape. So, I said, “Are you all mad people? Why are you killing yourselves and killing each other, and for this land after all? And you believe in a formless God so why should you fight for this land and kill each other and live in such a way? You see, what is this stupidity?”
So, he said, “No, in Koran it is written…” Which I am sure it is not written because I have read it. But he says it is written in Koran that if you die then you should bury yourself so when the Qayamat will come, when resurrection time will come, then these bodies will come out and they will get their resurrection. Even Christians stupid believe that way. They believe. And also, the Jews. All the three people believe like this. Imagine after 500 years what is going to come out? Out of the…
Shri Mataji: Bones? Maybe some. But you see, the Indian philosophy is correct because what they say is that your souls will be born and there will be a big, what you call, growth in population. That is something sensible. A soul can take birth and population growth is there already. So that is something sensible, I think. But how can the body come out after 500 years? At least I can’t give [realization] to the bones. All such absurd ideas there are which might have been put by Paul, I think. They might have followed it up. Paul is the one who must have put this idea. In Spain they put it in the mountains. They make drawers, you will be surprised. Like drawers. And in the drawers the dead bodies are put in, and they pull out the drawer and then put another one, then push it back. Then pull it out. In the drawers there are compartments.
Yogi: It’s horrible Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: Horrible, isn’t it?
Funny stories they have. I was thinking what is happening to a mountain like this with drawers and drawers. So, they told Me that all the dead bodies are inside.
Yogi: Should be possessed mountain.
Shri Mataji: I don’t know from where they get these ideas. So, this is another nonsense they are doing. I don’t know how many other nonsensical things they are doing. But this is what he told Me, this Bosnia fellow. That if you die in the name of Allah, or if you die in the jihad, according to this jihad, your body will come back and will get resurrected. And now what happens there also he told Me clearly that people have no food to eat. So, when somebody dies, they cut the body and eat it. So, what will come out of that grave?
Yogi: The lamas are doing the same Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: Lamas?
Yogi: They are cutting the body of the dead and…
Shri Mataji: They don’t burn [it]?
Yogi: They don’t burn. I saw just in a paper like this – they are cutting. Near Tibet.
Shri Mataji: But lamas are really horrible and… All these people, you know, are just doing such a perverted thing. Lama is a beggar. Because Buddha said that you should take bhiksha [alms] and eat that food. He didn’t say [to] go round the whole world begging for money and collecting gold. They are just begging all over and amassing money like this. He has so many wrinkles on his face [that] you can count them, I think. Like [sounds like ‘Lester Piggott’] the jockey.
I don’t know what impresses people. Because if you ask for money, they are very happy. In America they said if you ask for money, we’ll be happier. Why? One fellow came, nice fellow, a Sahaja Yogi. His name is Rangachari. He is a good fellow. He said, “Mother there are people who want to give their charities,” this, that. But for what? I mean if there is a project, or for some purpose, or is needed for an ashram or anything, it is all right. But just to go around just to get money from people is not proper. You must have your self-respect. For what do you need money you tell Me. So that is Buddhist style. They are regular beggars, regular.
Yogi: Actually, in Thailand people give lot of money. People in Thailand are giving lot of money for the temples and so on. So, they just go on building temples like this, on and on, with golden leaves and things. It’s absolutely useless.
Shri Mataji: They have to make temples of the heart.
Just can’t understand. That’s why they need money. Also, must be using themselves out of it, I am sure. In the name of God to do all these things, to beg…
Yogi: And the rich people are… When they want to do something good, according to them, for their karma, they are just giving things to the temple. Like a car or boat or… So sometimes we know that the temple has a Mercedes car or…It is very surprising to see some monks going in a Mercedes car …
Shri Mataji: Only thing is, God is missing from the temple. [Shri Mataji laughs]. That’s the only thing.
Shri Mataji: All right. So, very nice meeting you all.
May God bless you.
Any problem you have, please let Me know. Please let Me know. And grow in Sahaja Yoga. That is very important – is to grow in Sahaja Yoga. You must grow otherwise it doesn’t work out. You must grow in Sahaja Yoga. Very important.
May God bless you.